All About Lesbian Sex: Pleasure, Consent, Orgasms, Toys, Sexual Health & Hygiene (with Cherish Amber)

00:00 - Sarah St John (Host)

Welcome to the Lesbianus podcast. My guest today is a queer sex intimacy and relationship coach that is a passionate advocate for pleasure, empowerment and consent. With certifications in trauma, informed sex, love and relationship coaching, she prioritizes creating safe queer spaces. As a queer woman herself, she offers a unique perspective in guiding transformative self-discovery. Welcome to the show Cherish Amber.

00:28 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

Thank you. It's such an honor to be here so wonderful to see you.

00:31 - Sarah St John (Host)

So good to have you on. We actually just recorded an episode for your show. We did, yeah. So it's fun to be on each other's shows because you have a show called Coming Out Stronger. Yeah, the closets are for clothes. That's a cute tagline yeah.

00:48 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

So when I was doing my coming out journey I realized I want to do a content gorge and I just wanted to find out so information. I just realized there's just nothing really about coming out stories. It's really broad and genderless and orientation, so I thought why the hell not make it?

01:05 - Sarah St John (Host)

yeah, exactly, and I'm a listener of the show, and so can you tell us a little bit about your coming out story?

01:11 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

so it's convoluted. So when I was 15 I came out as bisexual at school, tried to come out to someone a bit more close to me and I wasn't necessarily met with super warm yumminess and, if I'm honest, the kind of fear of God was put into me, if I'm honest, and I decided to cut that part of me into a box and I went on quite a lot of deep journeys with long-term relationships with men. I went through a big breakup nearly two years ago with my partner, who was a male at the time and came out as bisexual again, I guess, and had an amazing year of a lot of fun-fueled sexcapades, I'd probably say, and then fell into my first queer relationship last year. That was amazing. It was really beautiful, really powerful and it's just been really amazing like I've loved. The last couple of years been really beautiful, yeah, and I feel like the best version of me.

02:15

I identify as queer, gay, lesbian and I I use the three of them because I live in a society, specifically in certain parts of the UK, where the term queer just isn't really accepted yet we're a little bit behind other places in the world, I think, rather than having to constantly educate people every day, because that's my job. In a personal space sometimes I don't want to. If I say I'm gay which is how I identify anyway, or a lesbian, that's much more accepted and much quicker for people to then, to not be such a long rattling process of what does queer mean? Would you sleep with men?

02:52 - Sarah St John (Host)

All of that kind of thing. Okay, so you were in predominantly straight relationships up till like two years ago and then you were in a lesbian relationship, and now you identify as lesbian or gay relationship, and now you identify as lesbian or gay. So what was different about the lesbian relationship than the straight relationship that made you figure out you're not actually bi, you're lesbian or gay.

03:14 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

As part of my coaching, I'm always doing introspective work. I'm in therapy, I have coaching weekly and I'm always doing my own work. That's the super important part. I had a really deep realization that I think all of my male relationships was me trying to replace my dad. I didn't have a dad growing up.

03:34

I, if I was to be really open and honest, I would say that I don't necessarily think that I quite understood what a non-sexual masculine relationship was in lots of ways, and I think I sought out relationships with men based on the way I could get love, which was through sex at the time. How was the relationship different when I was in a queer relationship? Boundless ways that it was different. I have never felt more like myself. I have never felt more free. I have never felt more free. I've never felt more authentic and for me it was like oh, this is how it's meant to feel, like something always stuck in my straight relationships and don't get me wrong, I've had long-term relationships, like I've got a four, two, four and a half year relationships and a three year relationship under my mouth with men like, like I, I committed to it and I just something always stuck and my sex drive was always pretty low.

04:30

It wasn't when I thought about sex with women, but it would always nosedive after the first couple of months and I know myself now it's like it doesn't dip, like it no, it hasn't dipped since and I think I was just really numb and I experienced a lot of numb, a lot of numbness. I have experienced sexual assault. I've experienced interrelationship, rape like. I've experienced some really not very nice behaviors and I just think I switched my everything off. I switched all my emotions off and it wasn't until I did. My coming out was by when I was 30 and then the next relationship after that and how amazing that felt. I was like, oh okay, this is it.

05:07 - Sarah St John (Host)

It's just taking some time. And how old are you now? Um 32, okay, yeah, that all makes sense, like so for me. I haven't been in a lesbian relationship. So I feel like, because we were talking on your show which, by the by the way, we'll have to cross-reference each other's shows We'll let them yeah, yeah.

05:27

So if you're listening to this, go check out my episode on hers. Yeah, but we were talking about how there are times where I feel like, well, maybe I'm actually pansexual Because I did identify as bi in my 20s and 30s and realized, okay, no, I'm gay because that's my preference and I still think my preference is that I feel like until I'm actually in a relationship with a woman, I think that's going to be the clear. That might be the oh yeah, 100% type situation.

05:57 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

I talked about this on podcast before. Talked about the desire for labels and my identity as a gay woman. Is my label that I really enjoy right now. It's the one that feels the most powerful for me and it makes me feel yummy when I think about it, and it's the one that makes me feel most authentic. So how?

06:15 - Sarah St John (Host)

did you get into being a queer sex and intimacy coach?

06:21 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

I started on my journey to becoming a coach five years ago now and initially it was a little bit of a seeing God moment. I'm not necessarily a huge religious person, but I believe that there is absolutely a oneness. I call it a oneness, maybe you could call it a moment of that, but I had an epiphany of like if people could feel good enough at a really young age, like from the age of like 14 15, and understand their own pleasure, specifically their own, without anyone else, then things like interrelationship, rape might not happen as much, because they would feel able to understand their own pleasure and say when things don't feel as good, and be able to communicate that better. And what happened then was I went on to a bit of a deep dive trying to find a course that worked for me, where I was at in my life, right in the moment, and I did a thousand hour the most in-depth coaching qualification in the world at the time. I don't know if it is still now, but it definitely was when I did it with Leila Martin, and it was a really profound experience and it was then that I started to understand.

07:20

We had some incredible teachers about queerness and the LGBTQIA plus community and I started to understand much more about the kind of terrain and the narrative and and the world that is the kind of not separate worlds, but the world that is the LGBTQ plus community, and I started to understand more about gender. From that point onwards it kind of was like a spiral and it wasn't until I came out that I realized how powerful this work is and how much it can support the queer community as a whole. And I run lots of different things now and the challenges are different. In queer relationships, which I love, the coming out coaching which I do is amazing. All of that kind of space, as well as running spaces at pride events, which is called the pleasure zone, which is like 15 minute drop-in sessions for the queer community.

08:10

So it's literally come in with any question and I'll support you basically, okay so it's not like a come in and come and go, no, it's not like a come and no, no, no, no, no, no, it's just like I really like consent and pleasure is everyone's birthright and that's what I truly believe. There's a really interesting train of thought going on at the moment which we're playing with, which is like maslow's hierarchy of needs is safety, food, shelter, but what do you feel when you experience all of those? So when you feel safe, you feel pleasure. When you're at home and you're a warm and cozy, you feel pleasure. When you eat something yummy, you feel pleasure. When you're at home and you're a warm and cozy, you feel pleasure. When you eat something yummy, you feel pleasure.

08:47

It's like maybe we've overlooked the Maslow's hierarchy of needs in a way and actually you can feel pleasure as a result of all of them, and maybe pleasure is on that list. So that was the precursor to the pleasure zone is like how can we have open conversations about pleasure and consent in a consenting adult that's not purely focused on condoms, because that's the reality of safe sex, like so yeah, that was where the pleasure zone kind of came from and that's what it's been doing. And I I saw 90 people in four and a half hours at one of the prize last year like it was a never-ending cycle, and it really highlighted the importance of this space in the queer world, because I think there's this understanding or there's this very strange belief that we're all having the best sex of our lives that lasts six hours and if you're not outlasting it for six hours, somehow you're broken and we should all know what we're doing straight away when we come out okay, what is with this six hour thing?

09:44 - Sarah St John (Host)

because if you listen to fletcher, one of her new songs talks about sex for six hours.

09:50 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

So okay, yeah I can tell you absolutely so, um, so I'm gonna use the term woman, um, and I'm normally talking about cisgendered women, but for the most part anyone identifies as women full stop, pretty much. But if you're like a vagina owner as a whole, you're more likely to take up to 20 minutes to orgasm. So the common is 11 to 20 minutes. Someone who's a penis owner might take between four and seven minutes to orgasm and we're talking about like actually going hard no, no, no, from hard on to ejaculation is four to seven minutes okay.

10:30 - Sarah St John (Host)

So for a woman, when you say 20 minutes or 11 to 20 or whatever, that's from the point of initial arousal, like initial arousal with using touch of some kind.

10:42 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

Okay, okay, I see what you're saying. In heterosexual relationships, the average. So if you put those two things together, there is obviously a huge disparency of time, and the average sex in a heterosexual relationship lasts anywhere between 11 and 15 minutes, and so you can see that if the average vagina owner takes 10 to 20 minutes, but the normal sex in a heterosexual relationship lasts 15, there's something not quite matching up there.

11:12 - Sarah St John (Host)

Right, the woman never gets to finish, probably the orgasm gap is enormous in heterosexual relationships.

11:18 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

So I want to give that as like a fact initially, fact initially. Second to that men, penis owners as a whole will take anywhere between half an hour to two hours to kind of like reboot, ready to go again.

11:32

And for vagina owners, or pussy owners, as I would say, it's like can be up to seconds, like should start to be where you see the six hours coming in because it's literally like well, you're done, well, then you're done, great, and so we'll just go again, because there's an endless amount of orgasms that's possible and we're able to feel overwhelming amounts of pleasure. And also we're able to dial back when we feel the pleasure, whereas often people who can ejaculate always bring it back once it gets past a certain point and then for the most part, the sex is over. That's why we talk about kind of six hours. I don't know many lesbian relationships that the sex isn't kind of two hours plus, which is really interesting because what it sometimes leads to is less sex in the relationship okay, so like you're having longer sex, but less frequently.

12:23

Yeah, because specifically for when you're talking about later blooming lesbians or later in life lesbians, you've worked a full day, maybe you've got kids or the dogs or whatever. You get into bed at 9.10, you're back awake at whatever time in the morning, like we don't have time for a two hour sex session, and so you're more likely to say no because you don't have the time which I've been recently been given. I've been chatting to a few longer term lesbians who've been out for a really long time and they're like well, I think we need to change the way we think about it, like it doesn't need to be this long, drawn-out process. We can just both have a quick orgasm, take 10 minutes and like go on with our day and actually we're much nicer people because we've orgasmed. So that's also a really interesting train of thought.

13:09 - Sarah St John (Host)

Yeah, that's interesting. Okay, I get what you're saying. So basically it could. It could just be any length of time, because you can constantly keep going, absolutely.

13:19 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

Yeah, that's the reason, because and it's delicious, right, and it's like there's so many different things we're it's like there's so many different things. We're really lucky we have so many different things to pull on. Maybe it's you're strapping, maybe you've got a toy, maybe there's vibrators, maybe it's just hands, maybe it's neutral masturbation where you're doing it to each other, maybe you're doing it separately, like there are so many different beautiful ways to pull on, especially in lesbian sex.

13:41 - Sarah St John (Host)

So, yeah, there's lots of different things and I think it just gets more and more and more and more and that's a conversation that a lot of lesbians have is how to define and it seems like it's different for everybody what sex actually is. Is penetration of any kind? Does it even have to be that?

14:01 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

so I'm curious your thoughts on that I I'm gonna maybe take this conversation slightly in a different slightly.

14:07

I'll just touch on something slightly different, which is around consent, which I think is a really important topic in this.

14:11

Technically, the term for rape involves a penis, which means technically, if you were getting down to it, you'd have to go really far to ever say that another woman could rape another woman, and I just think that's a massive oversight and I and I know this is like we're having light heart a conversation, I will run back to lightheartedness, but I think that's really important is actually society has taught us that it has to be a penis and a vagina to be raped and that's just completely untrue, like it's completely untrue.

14:38

So I just like think more society than when we have to change the narrative around what sex is, because I believe penetration of any kind is sex, but also I believe oral sex is also sex and all of it comes under the umbrella of intimacy and there are loads of other things that are really intimate, because I don't know about my personal experience, it's like I can have an amazing makeout session, like life-changing makeout session, and we're touching each other's bodies and we're naked and there's oil and there's candles and it's yummy and, like I, can get as much pleasure, if not more, than perhaps specifically purely penetration. And so if I looked back at the week I just had, I would be likely to say we had sex X amount of times, because I would count that beautiful, delicious, intentional makeout session as sex and I would always invite my clients to see it like that too. It's like sex isn't orgasm based.

15:36 - Sarah St John (Host)

That's true Cause I would say if it was orgasm based, then most women in straight relationships probably have technically never had sex, right.

15:44 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

I saw the other day I said someone said what is your number, really your number if you did an orgasm like what's your true number? And I was like, oh yeah, I have to take my number down a lot.

15:56 - Sarah St John (Host)

Yeah, so I definitely. I don't associate it with orgasm, but I tend to think of it as like. For me, my definition would be any sort of penetration, whether it's, I don't know how graphic we want to get, let's just go for it. You know, fingers, toys, whatever, and I even think oral sex because, like you, can penetrate with your tongue.

16:14 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

16:15 - Sarah St John (Host)

So yeah, when you said earlier something about interpersonal rape, can you define what that is?

16:27 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

It's not technically a definition and I'm a really big believer of there not being a sliding scale of sexual assault or rape. I want to be really, really clear on that Eight out of 10 rapes that happen by someone that the victim knows. But unfortunately, we live in a world where implied consent is this incredibly gray area, and so when I'm talking about interrelationship rape, I'm talking about consistent, non-consenting sex that happens in a relationship, which is very gray. But let's just be really clear it's still rape. It's really not okay. But it helps people to understand what I'm talking about as a reference point Because, yeah, unfortunately we live in a world where sometimes more language is really helpful and we live in a world where you know if I was to say you might not likely to be raped, they think, well, that's back alley screaming and shouting fire because no one's going to come.

17:21

I think it's important to give people a frame of reference. Actually, you know a lot of the time it's in in your relationship that it happens that you're non-consenting and it's around that space. So that's what I mean in that, but it's not it's I don't want to ever say it's like a widely renowned definition, it just I've found it helps people have a reference point and a way of connecting and understanding that, if they are experiencing non-consenting sex in a relationship, that it is exactly as it says. It is that.

17:49 - Sarah St John (Host)

And what about? What would you say in a situation where the sex starts consensually but then at a certain point one person wants to stop for whatever reason, but the other person doesn't stop. Does that now become? Go from consensual to okay?

18:06 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

absolutely yeah, no question. Like at any point, the no is there and that's non-consensual, and I fully know that that can be really really challenging for the person who's not the victim, can be hard to understand, but I want to always on the side of the victim, no matter what. The second your body is a no, it's a no and everything should stop. So I really recommend everyone to watch the cup of tea video. It's all about implied consent.

18:32

And obviously a cup of tea is a very British thing. So, yeah, but like, you could say it for everything. You could say it for like any drink. Let's say coffee, tea, whatever, any, any like, would you like a cup of tea? Yes, okay, great. Say, would you like a cup of tea? And now I've got the cups out? Yes, would you like a cup of tea now I've I've bought the kettle? Yeah, I still want a cup of tea. Like, would you like a cup of tea even though I've poured it into the tea? Yeah, even though I've poured it into the cup.

18:53

Yeah, you can say no at any point. You can say no even if the water is pouring out of the kettle into the cup. You can say no even if I'm carrying the cups of coffee to you. You can still say no when you remove the kind of sexual connotations and put it into something that everyone does. Like we all drink tea, coffee, hot drink, you know, whatever. You wouldn't feel bad about saying no to someone bringing you a cup of tea if you decided you didn't want it.

19:19

I think it just suddenly gets so cloudy for people when we start talking about sex, because it's grey and unfortunately, for some reason, the perpetrator's often seen as the victim because, well, how did they know? And you know, and on the college stuff that goes on in the US like they're really grey areas. So I, at any point during a situation, if it's a no, it's a no, it's a no. Even if the person's inside of you and you, suddenly your body switches off, everything should stop. It doesn't mean that it can't carry on, and a lot of my coaching is offering and inviting people to feel what that no feels like, because often we don't know what our no feels like and that can be really interesting. So your body starts to switch off because there's a really interesting piece of work around, something called arousal, non-concordance, so your body can feel aroused, your body can be experiencing what arousal looks like, but you cannot be in pleasure.

20:12

So emily nagrowski talks about this at length in her book and in her subsequent talks, but the best way I can describe it. She tells about a story of her friend who was doing some power play a kinky power play and he had a woman straddle a metal bar with her hands tied above her head and he left the room because power play and she realized that actually she was bored. She was like I'm not getting anything from this, I'm really bored. And he came back in and he said she said I'm, you know I'm bored. And he was like came back in and he said she said I'm, you know I'm bored. And he was like no, you're not. The bar is where I can see you're, you're enjoying this.

20:45

It was such a good example of she wasn't turned on, she wasn't enjoying it, she wasn't getting any pleasure from it, she wasn't non-consenting, she wasn't a no, but she was like this is boring. But her body was experiencing arousal. Well, of course it was. It had a bar pressed exactly on her clit that had temper, different temperature. It happens all the time, right, like and another way you can look at it is if you take out of sex is like stop tickling me, I'm not enjoying it. Well, you're laughing, so you must be right. So that's something that's really interesting when we talk about consent is this kind of arousal, non-concordance, like the body is saying yes but the brain saying no, and like it's a really easy way for people to not be able to trust their bodies, and it's a real shame. And when I start to kind of educate on that topic and people start to realize they're like oh, there's been so many times where I'm like I'm wet, but I'm just not getting anything from this situation, and I think it's so interesting.

21:43 - Sarah St John (Host)

That is really interesting, yeah, and I've even heard them say you know, if, like, a rape victim can sometimes experience like they could have an orgasm from the rape, and to not feel weird or bad or whatever about that, like, don't interpret that as you enjoyed it or whatever, it's just the body responding it happens a lot.

22:05 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

It happens a lot like they may I don't know the percentage off the top of my head, but I I think it was between 60 and 80 percent of people that have that experience rape or orgasm and it's often the main reason people don't come forward. But it's just the body going through a chemical reaction. It's just the body. It isn't as like, as linear as this, but like if the clit is rubbed 15 times in a right way, like you're often likely to orgasm, right, like it's just a thing that happens and there's no shame in it. There's no shame in it.

22:33

And what's interesting and I think this is such an interesting conversation is like how many times have you been in a situation and not been able to orgasm, even though you wanted to? It's like oh, and that makes things a bit cloudy, but there is a lot of things to say. You know, the science is there to say the body is like if a certain thing is pressed in a certain way, you're likely to orgasm. That doesn't mean that you're enjoying it. It's just the body going through. It's not just like sneezing, like, it's a natural body experience and that's what we need to really focus on.

23:00

And that is like and then, interestingly, what it draws back on is what we said a little bit earlier, which was sex is not orgasm based. Sex is pleasure based. I would invite everyone listening to head into their next sexual experience, going how much pleasure can we feel not how many times we're gonna be orgasm how much pleasure can we feel? Can you be like shaking on the edge, like for five hours, because you can do it, I know you can like. How incredible, like that this is homework.

23:27 - Sarah St John (Host)

Y'all this is homework yeah, how?

23:30 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

how exciting, like, how much pleasure can you feel in this moment? Can you bring more sense in? Can you bring oils in? Can you bring different strokes in experiment? Feel more pleasure, because orgasm is not the sole cause. And I guarantee and I really so so rarely say guarantees because I'm a coach and we like it's just not in integrity but I guarantee your sex will be better if you put pleasure at the forefront and not orgasm like.

23:55 - Sarah St John (Host)

That doesn't have to be the goal or the outcome. So should every couple or I guess you don't have to be a couple or the outcome. So should every couple or I guess you don't have to be a couple, but anyone entering into a sexual situation have an agreed upon safe word.

24:09 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

Yeah, I think that everyone should have a conversation before they even get into the bedroom. Wherever you're having sex, I think there should be ground rules laid out. I think the kink community does this so well and, unfortunately, because of the way that society has gone, mainstream media really pushed away kink because it's all they all think is whips and chains and it's not. The level of consent in the kink community is probably the best out of any community that I see. But everyone should be having a conversation about ground rules expectations.

24:40

I invite everyone to use a traffic light system as a kind of easy something to look at. But actually realistically, when you first get into a dynamic with someone, you can just use yes and no, safe words, unless you're doing slightly further along, not vanilla sex. Actually just using the term yes and no can be really good. Or you know, I've got a couple of really cool ways you can say like firmer, softer, slower, faster, harder, softer, but firmer, softer and slower, faster really really cool ways to be working on your consent. But yeah, saying no and all the traffic light systems. If you don't know the traffic light system. So green is good, we're good to go, we're enjoying it. Amber is like oh, something doesn't quite feel right now. Can we just take our foot off the gas and then red is an immediate stop.

25:26

No matter what you're doing, everyone stops and you go into aftercare oh, explain aftercare so aftercare is again a bit of a kink thing, but aftercare, I think should be adopted by all relationships, no matter how vanilla your sex is. So you both agree on a aftercare before you even get into it, and it can be anything. My aftercare often involves hoodie, like a hooded sweater of any kind, and cuddles, and I really like verbal aftercare, so I chat about it. What did you feel went well, what did you like, what was great, what was not as great. Just because I want that verbal feedback and that really, really supports me to wrap sex up with a bow because, if you like, go straight off into your day or your night or straight to sleep.

26:14

Quite often we're left with a little bit of a vulnerability hangover, not knowing. And if you're not super vocal and there's not high levels of communication in sex, then yeah, it's like did you enjoy it, did you feel good? And simple things like someone lying on the other person's chest and you're just stroking each other's hair or having a shower together if it's got messy and there's loads of lube. I'm a massive advocate for lube at all times, every day, all time, every day, anytime. So go and eat something together. Maybe you've got some really beautiful fruit in the fridge that you've prepared to have after the sex like whatever it is just like.

26:47

Make sure that aftercare is like just five, 10 minutes minimum I would say of just reconnection that's not sex-based, just really lovely, yummy, non-sex. So that means that no matter what happens happens even if someone goes safe words, if you've got a safe word or red color reds or traffic light reds that they can go straight into yummy cuddles and no one then feels bad about reading or or saying no or safe wording or questioning consent. It's like you've always got something really yummy. And the kind of trauma stuff is like you training your nervous system that no matter how different sex gets or how far you push the boundaries that your nervous system knows, it's always got safety to come back to and you always regulate before you go into the next part of whatever you're doing, like sleep or your day, depending on when you have sex oh, that's really interesting.

27:39 - Sarah St John (Host)

I've never even heard of that, and usually in like a straight situation, it's like as soon as they're done, then it's like they'll watch tv or whatever and I think it leads to really not necessarily as fulfilling sexual experiences.

27:53 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

If I was to say to you right now, like imagine if after you'd finished having sex with any exes, if you knew every time, no matter what, you were gonna have a really big cuddle lie in their arms, eat some, I don't know, whatever your favorite food is like, whatever your favorite food is if it's pop tarts or strawberries or drinking tropicana, whatever it is, that's the thing and you just have five or ten minutes of really gentle, loving softness, then I feel like people would be like yeah, sex feels better. I look forward to it a bit more because I know it's going to feel really. No matter how yummy it feels in the middle, it's going to feel yummy at the end as well.

28:29 - Sarah St John (Host)

So I think a lot of my listeners have either maybe not even had sex with a woman, or maybe only once or twice, or maybe have never been in a lesbian relationship. They might not be overly experienced whatever. What recommendations, tips, advice would you have for those who either haven't or not much experience in their process of exploring that?

28:53 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

sure I'm gonna make the assumption that they have gone over the, they're actually in an experience with a vagina, with a woman, right, because there's like often a long lead in time to get there. So we'll cross that bit. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily a dating coach, so I know it can be really challenging for people and that's some of the reason people don't come out actually is they can't find women to talk to and I find that really challenging, really sad. Anyway, let's just say you are having sex with a woman and it's kind of like you know it's a surefire deal. I'd always say go really slowly and gently for the first couple of times if you kind of have, as a first and foremost, like checking in with the other person every starting off every couple of minutes, and it doesn't have to be like does this feel good, am I okay, you okay? You could just be like are we good? Keep going. You can say does this feel good? As I said a minute ago, offering firmer, softer, slower, faster can be really really powerful because you can offer that to the other person, to say to you, because sometimes saying stop that, change that can be really difficult, especially if women have been having sex with men before, because men experience worse rejection sensitivity than women often so they feel unable to say no to their partners in like a. That doesn't feel good, which is why women fake it all the time.

30:10

I would say go really, really slowly and I imagine the people who are listening have often experienced someone wanting they want to tell their partner to change what they're doing, but they don't know how. If you know what I mean, just you have to flip that back like reverse it right, because you're now with someone who also can't tell you and you're experiencing that too. But it's much more gentle and open, so they're much more willing to receive feedback. In my experience with a woman, because they've also had to fake it or whatever, I would say that often it can be really beautiful.

30:46

So when you're starting off in a dynamic with a woman to sort of both, if it feels safe to commit to not faking it because it's our go-to to fake it, one of the biggest things I would say I learn and I often support people to remember is it's going to take longer and there is no rush. There is no rush. You're learning about someone's body and there is a lot of people I know that suffer from like guilt about taking too long. And I guess, if you're listening to this, like there is no guilt, you take as long as you take. You take half an hour, you take 45 minutes. For the most part, the person who's doing the thing to you is really enjoying themselves and they'll tell you. If they aren't, there's no stress. That's what. Like it's really good to make sure you've got loads of time. Get really slowly, take it really gently, and the next thing I'd always say is loop like, use, loop, loveube, it's amazing.

31:40 - Sarah St John (Host)

Like don't be afraid if you feel like you need it agreed, agreed.

31:45 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

But I would say that absolutely and like we've all got these beautiful like self-lubricating organs that are amazing and I would still recommend lube just for, like clit stimulation and that kind of thing is just like it's really lovely, because sometimes, as I said, it can take longer. And actually just any kind of finger sensitivity, any finger friction, can be really uncomfortable to lots of people. So just like a little bit more lube than you'd think, just have it on standby a little bit here and there can just be a really beautiful way to just make sure there's no friction like I want to friction, because that can be a really quick turn off. I would say that a really interesting one and this is like a really big topic.

32:31

Understand, before you get there, that everyone has a different aroma. Everyone has different aromas and smells and scents. Get okay with your own. Like we're not meant to smell like flowers, aside from making sure you've got great health, just accept that everyone smells different, everyone feels different and like it's okay to not smell like flowers. Like your vaginas aren't meant to smell like flowers. Like that it's not healthy. We've got beautiful, as I said, self-cleaning, self-lubricating organs. They're gonna taste and smell different and that's okay and because they're internal, it's a different cleaning mechanism and that kind of thing. So, whilst I'm not here to advocate for unless it's your kink like dirty sex, you can have a shower before if you want to, but like just accept that it's not going to be the same as there are people who have kinks in that world and that's just not my vibe.

33:21 - Sarah St John (Host)

Okay, what can you explain? What do you mean by?

33:23 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

well, like maybe they would want to have sex with someone who'd maybe not showered for a couple of days. Oh, okay, that's just, there's kinks, everyone's got kink, like there's lots of kinks in this world. It's not my chosen one, but that's like. You know so, and maybe you choose to shower together beforehand and then like, and that's the thing that you do and you can make it a little bit of a ritual and you both shower and then jump into bed together in whatever way. But just like vaginas or pussies are very different to penises and that's the joy of them, I would please stop me if I'm getting too advicey, like I'm just giving you.

33:56

Oh, no, no it's good, okay, really accept and come to terms with before you get to having a sex with a woman or a pussy owner. At the end of the day, every single pussy is different and porn will have you think that we're all supposed to have these beautiful, tight labias that go inside each other and your majora and your menorah sit perfectly inside each other, and that is complete lie and actually there's a lot of science to say that the bigger your labia is, the more pleasure you can feel, because there's more surface area touching your clit. When I was doing my training, we had to look at I think it was 250 images of different vaginas.

34:39 - Sarah St John (Host)

How do I sign up for that job?

34:43 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

but, like I can honestly say to you, not a single one was the same not a single one was the same. Our bodies are different everyone. If you've got breasts, you know that one is one bigger and one is smaller, right?

34:55

and that goes for pussies too. Like one of your labias will be bigger, like your left hand might be bigger than your right hand labia, and that's okay. Like, so, get really good at knowing your body, but also understand that when you do get down there, it might not look how it looks in porn, and that's okay, and I guess this is a little bit advisey. But, like, just be really gentle, because make sure that you're able to hold your facial expressions, because if you get down there and it looks different to how you're expecting it, I would love for you to not show the person you're with, because that can be really traumatic. Right, and that would be some advice. And just have fun. Have fun, touch them in different ways.

35:33

There is some science to say that the upper left quadrant of the clitoris is the most sensitive, so you can start with there if you'd like. Don't press too hard, don't go straight for fucking Men. Do that. We do not Just like. Explore, like, use oil, start to stroke the outer labia, the outer lips, feel their legs, like. Then feel the inside, then move in. Maybe you're using your tongue, maybe you're not. This time, just be really gentle and really slow and accept that it's going to take a long time and it's beautiful, and sometimes it might not, and sometimes it will, and all of it is beautiful and yummy and welcome. Is there any?

36:10 - Sarah St John (Host)

truth to the what you eat can change how you taste.

36:14 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

I would say that, like you can definitely tell when someone's diet is pretty good, because they taste sweeter I do. I would say they taste sweeter like yeah, and diet is like, so flexible, like I am not someone who's like hardline, you mustn't eat vegetables. I would say in my experience you can taste. If someone eats a lot of dairy, I wouldn't say or meat yeah, or meat, yeah.

36:38

I think if someone's got a really like pretty good balanced diet, you know they're eating relative amounts of fruit. It's pretty clean. You can definitely taste the difference, but I the only one that I'm aware of is asparagus.

36:49

Like it makes sure we smell different and I think everything just smells a bit, just a bit different with asparagus, but that would probably be the only one that I'm aware of, I think, and I think that it changes. It definitely changes within the cycle as well, and I think that's really interesting, I think, as one taste changes within their cycle and I, oh yeah, I'm always really interested in that because you know, like our discharge changes through our cycle, right, and like of course, it would make sense that we it changed whilst we were. Our taste and smell and odor it changed as we move through our cycle. What about, like probiotics? Does that help massively?

37:23

massive probiotics and probiotics can really, really help. There is an amazing brand in the us and they struggled to ship over to the uk but I'm a big it's love matata matara. I can get it and I'll send it to you for you to link in the show notes if you'd like to. But they do amazing. She does amazing probiotics and she does like it's all organic and it's all really really vagina friendly and she does like internal gels as well and, yeah, really, really, and they're very specific to pussies and making sure that they are optimum health and and talking about thrush and bv and how to overcome that, not using chemicals or drugs in whatever way, that does make a huge, huge difference. I definitely know I've had some challenges with you know, candida and that kind of thing in the past and I definitely noticed a significant shift when I went on to probiotics and prebiotics. A significant shift.

38:15 - Sarah St John (Host)

Okay, yeah, and then what are your thoughts on? Like douching?

38:18 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

I'm not a big fan personally, like I'm a big advocate for just using water, water and like sloshing with water 100. If water isn't enough, then I would always say, like maybe go and speak to a gynecologist if you can or like, because if water's not enough and it's still feeling like there's some stuckness or you know that you're not getting rid of discharge, then maybe there's something else going on, like maybe bv or a yeast infection. But yeah, I'm not a big fan of douching personally, unless you're talking about anal play, in which case, yes, I think that's always a really, really good place to start before you have anal play personally.

38:52 - Sarah St John (Host)

Oh, maybe we should talk about that. What are some thoughts that you have on that, or advice?

38:57 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

so, yeah, like I think being prepped is always a really, really good thing. I think personally or I'm sure everyone will know, but just in case anyone doesn't like, never double dip. Whatever toys you're using, never go from ass to vagina ever like please, I'm gonna get laughed at by everyone because you'll get a uti or some or some kind yeah well, uti or yeah, anything like.

39:18

It's just not great. The things that are back there are not meant to come to the things in the front. Anal douching is a really, really great place to start, just to prep, and I would always recommend doing it within like 12 to 6 hours before you know you're going to have ass play. I always offer people to have anal toys that are just specifically for anal and if not, then I stick all my toys through the dishwasher because it just makes sure they're really safe and secure. You can use condoms on toys, on silicone toys, but you have to make sure that they are suitable for silicone toys because otherwise it degrades the silicone and about 15 times more lube than you would ever think is necessary to do anal.

39:53 - Sarah St John (Host)

That's when the lube would probably need to come in.

39:56 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

Yeah, always start small and I would say that I would always advocate and people always think I'm a bit weird for this, but like, when they try it, they're like, oh okay, I'd always advocate for toys over fingers because that is the friction feels weird, like the skin on skin can sometimes feel really challenging to the ass. So what?

40:15 - Sarah St John (Host)

would be. Your fingers go other places throughout, exactly, and then you've got to stop and wash hands.

40:20 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

And then the most important thing about anal play, no matter what happens like and this is super important is, if you're using a toy as to be an anal toy, they have to have a stopper on them, if you think about it oh yeah have to have a stopper on them, because, even though the ass is for expulsion, it's got this really beautiful mechanism where it sucks anything in that comes into it, and we do not want to be in the emergency room being like I fell on this. I fell on this thing. So please, please, for the love of god, if you are using toys, make sure they are dedicated ass toys and they've got a stopper on them, like they have to have a flat edge and have to be bigger than you think.

40:58 - Sarah St John (Host)

Because, because, yeah, that reminds me of a scene from that movie Everything, everywhere, all at Once, or whatever.

41:05 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

There's way too many Grey's Anatomy episodes with that in. So, yeah, that should tell you what you need to know.

41:11 - Sarah St John (Host)

And then as far as okay, so any kind of toys you can wash in the dishwasher and that's the best way to clean. I know there's kind of a debate about, say you have a partner, whether you're in a relationship or it's just a sexual thing or whatever, and now you're moving on to someone else or whatever, that you are supposed to buy all new toys for that next person. Is that the standard operation of procedures?

41:35 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

I would say so I think it's very much case by case. The one thing that I've been really interested in having conversation with some people recently about and I'm doing a little bit investigation my end is straps, like the actual strap before you get onto the dildo. I know people that would be big advocates for getting like leather ones and you can have them made and the nicer quality they are, the better they are functioning right, because you can strap them and you strap them up in a certain way. The buckles rest in a certain place and often that will involve using leather and, as we know with leather, like it molds to people, it molds with you, like you'll have certain places the buckles like sit really nicely. And I'm starting to become a lot more of an advocate, although, as I said, I'm doing a lot of research into it.

42:21

The strap, but not the dildo, goes with you. It's just and, like my my friend said it well, the way that you could look at it is like well, this is how I fuck, right, because I've not got a penis, so this is how I fuck. And then you get a new toy that you agree on together. That goes in to the strap.

42:38

For the most part, I would say I've dated people that are like yeah, it's absolutely fine. I use glass toys a lot. I'm quite a big effort for glass toys. It's not a porous. It's not porous at all. Glass isn't porous once they've gone through a 80 degree dishwasher cycle, like there's nothing left on those bad boys. So I think that actually the reality is it's an emotional thing that we need to check in with. I don't think it's necessarily a physical thing. I think if you're looking at certain porous toys materials, then I probably advocate for all new toys all round, but if you've got toys that aren't, then I do think that there's a conversation to be had and it's just a really open conversation. It's really asking someone to be like, especially if you're on a budget, right, like especially in a budget hey, I've got these, I use them with my previous partner. How would you feel if we use them again? I'll make sure they're completely clean, etc.

43:27

I think, for the most part, most people will say no. I would say no, but the strap, the actual strap. I think that that's fine and I think we need to get better at being able to say no. That's fine, because it's not the bit that's going inside you, and actually what I would love to see happen is for people to feel like they're able to invest in something that's really comfy. That perhaps is more like the $200 mark, but it stays with them for life, it fits them really well, like it feels really yummy and they just put they just put New Dildo in it, basically, and I'm starting to become more of an advocate for that kind of way of thinking and supporting people to understand, if you're the giver and you're the person who wears the strap more predominantly, that's theirs, like it's a part of them. It's a part of their body rather than something you can just throw away because it's also pretty wasteful in lots of ways yeah, yeah, and kind of sort of on a similar note, what are your thoughts on?

44:21 - Sarah St John (Host)

okay, so can you use one toy amongst both? People say, someone uses one on you, it's brand new toy, you haven't used on anyone else and they use it on you. Can you then turn around in that same session, before it's been washed, use it on them?

44:38 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

really and really good when I'd say general of thumb, like general hygiene, is probably no. However, if you're having the conversation at the beginning, you both know each other's sexual health history, you're both really confident in that and you've got open dialogue enough to say whether or not you're experiencing maybe one of the experiences a yeast infection and you don't. That would be something to not switch the toys on general, all of them. I think a quick wash off is always really lovely and helpful and just makes everyone feel more confident and yummy. But in a relationship I don't think there's any like a long-term relationship. Specifically, I don't think there's any issue with you swapping toys around, just enjoy, right like, because at the end of the day, if you're having active enough sex, you're transmitting all of your lovely yummy fluids all the way all the time anyway. So what's the real yeah.

45:21

I'd be interested to see what people's experience was of like saying quite often one person want a different toy to the other person. I don't know many couples that are like lesbian couples specifically, that are like both like the same toy. So yeah, I don't know, unless you got one that was like one size fits all, which it just never, ever is, then yeah, the likelihood is all quite often like one's got one that they prefer and one's got one that they other prefer I think we could just probably keep going, but people want to.

45:54 - Sarah St John (Host)

Well, they could check out your podcast coming out stronger. And then your website is cherishambercom. Yeah, do you have any other things that we hadn't discussed?

46:07 - Cherish Amber (Guest)

no, no, not at all. Like I do one-to-one coaching, all of my coaching is online. I'm based in the UK, but I work all over the world. I've got clients in the US, clients in Canada, clients in Europe. So, yeah, it's all done online and I work one-to-one or two-to-one. So I work with couples as well to overcome like sexual dry spells and that kind of thing. But no, everything's on my website. I've got all the social medias and I post them there in different places. But, yeah, absolutely. You can easily get in touch with me through that and you're welcome to reach out and say that you've had the podcast and we can chat through that.

46:36 - Sarah St John (Host)

Well, I appreciate your time today and the various things we talked about I can link in the show notes, Great. Also, I'm not sure whose episode will go out first, but whenever yours is, I will link that episode as well. Yeah, we'll link both ways.