How Heidi Collins' experience as a National TV News Anchor prepared her for creating brand videos. Journomarketing, what’s working well, advice when growing your video plans, + inside scoop on Sundance for brands. Summary and full transcript below.
THIS EPISODE AT-A-GLANCE
- How Heidi's experience as a national news anchor has prepared her
- What is Journomarketing?
- Heidi shares what brands utilize the approach of Journomarketing
- The insider scoop for the Sundance Film Festival
- What works well when companies structure their teams
- Heidi offers advice that you should keep on hand
- When Heidi learned to have empathy for herself
LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE
- Connect with Heidi Collins on LinkedIn
- Visit Heidi's website Storybones Media
Full Podcast Transcription
Heidi Collins:
You know, let's be honest, we're all selling stuff. Ultimately I am a marketer, but the Journomarketing is a little bit more about helping these people to talk organically and in a very 100% unscripted manner about their experiences with brands.
Sarah Panus:
Hi, my name is Sarah Panus. I have spent the last two decades driving digital content for billion dollar brands. Now I help content marketers build winning brand storytelling strategies and reduce feelings of overwhelm and confusion. Join me as we discuss strategy, creativity, confidence, and building a better connection with your audience. Think of this as a creative content marketing jam session mixed with chicken soup for the soul. This is the marketing with empathy podcast.
Sarah Panus:
Hey, hey, kindred speakers! With brands growing their content marketing and storytelling plans and teams and partnerships more and more. I wanted to bring someone on who intimately understands storytelling that I've personally really enjoyed working with. Joining me today is former national TV anchor turned brand storyteller, Heidi Collins. Heidi is an Emmy Edward R Murrow Peabody and Alfred DuPont award winning television news anchor - there's a mouthful. And correspondent turned corporate storyteller, entrepreneur, and describes herself as an “eternally recovering journalist”. After 23 years in front of the camera for NBC TV, CBS TV, Fox TV in her own show on CNN, Heidi's curiosity about what true storytelling could do for brands got the better of her. She was recruited by the CEO of lifetime fitness incorporated and created the first ever editorial media division - a shared service inside the enterprise. Working to bring the existing magazine to life through video storytelling, repurposing an existing television studio and building a team of 100% TV news journal, her teams brought about the success of a member facing editorial page with undeniably favorable engagement metrics.
Sarah Panus:
With 55 published brand films under her belt, other companies noticed and inquired. Those companies and several other brands since became clients and prompted the idea of entrepreneurship for Heidi. Heidi is now the grateful and proud CEO and founder of Storybones Media, a video brand storytelling company with crews of her beloved photojournalist and editors stationed across the country. Storybones Media has been growing strong and growing for three years. They are attending the upcoming 2022 Sundance Film Festival and finalizing a trademark of the term “journomarketing” (which we're gonna get into more on today's show) to help better define how television journalists work with brands to market their products from a non-sell organic approach that resonates across mass audiences. So, I'm super excited to welcome you guys and introduce you to Mrs. Heidi Collins. Welcome to the show, Heidi.
Heidi Collins:
Hey! Thank you, Sarah. I really appreciate it. I love the podcast and have listened many times before and, um, actually learned some really great stuff from other people in the same space - these storytellers that we keep calling ourselves, right?
Sarah Panus:
Yes. Well, I'm excited to have you on. I know you and I have actually, we worked together on projects, so we've both worked on video projects with Sleep Number.
Heidi Collins:
That's right.
Sarah Panus:
And so, it's great to have you on so we can share more about that and your experiences as a whole. I wanna jump right into it with you then, Heidi. How did your experience as a national TV news anchor prepare you for what you do now? Cause you've had such an interesting career.
HOW heidi's experience as a national news anchor has prepared her
Heidi Collins:
Well, you know, I think first of all, in total transparency, I didn't really know when we decided to sort of make this major pivot, as everyone seems to like that over or used term. You often don't know exactly what it is in your past career or your box of tools or your skill set that is gonna resonate really well and sort of translate into what felt very much to me like a brand new adventure, a brand new industry. But really very quickly, it became obvious that all of these things I had actually been doing for 23 years - with the exception of things like SEO and metrics and you know, all of those things, that's not my wheelhouse, so I needed quite a bit of partnership and collaboration with those areas, but the storytelling and the interviewing and the finding characters that make good stories and the ideas and messages that really resonate with people, um, that had all been happening my whole entire career. So I think being in front of the camera and being out in the field and putting packages and stories together, this was just another way of doing it that was a little less newsy.
Heidi Collins:
In other words, you know, when you're out on a shoot or when you're doing an interview in television news, you kind of cover up all of the brands that might be in the shot. If someone has a box of, and I'm just gonna throw this out there, Cheez It, or a Diet Coke, or something in the shot, you know, we move all that. What I had to sort of bend a little bit with and open that door to in the very beginning was - Hey, this is kind of part of what we're doing. We're not big into product placement, so that’s not the point, but allowing those things to sort of naturally be in shoots and in video that we include in the stories, um, is something that was, you know, kind of a new idea that I had to get used to. But everything else was, this is the same deal, you know, I'm sitting across from someone, I'm typically in their home, I'm learning about their experience and why they love the product or service of the brands that I'm working with. And, uh, the story goes from there - the research prior to it, the pre-production, all of that is the same, exactly the same as to what I was doing in TV news.
Sarah Panus:
Hmm. And you know, your company is called Storybones. Which is so great because the bones of a good story is what that makes me think of. But like what led you to name your company Storybones? Like how does that feed into your process and what you do?
Heidi Collins:
See in this is why I love working with you and love knowing you Sarah, because you're so smart. I love the fact that, um, that Storybones Media says to you, “Oh, the bones of a good story” because that's 100% what it is. You know, as much as I love this industry and so thankful that, um, you know, there was another direction for me to go with this DNA that I have about storytelling and about interviewing and being with people and sharing their stories. You know, I also, I don't think everyone is a storyteller. And I do think that there are those who know a little bit more about how to relate to people or how to make people feel comfortable in front of a camera and how to find really good characters that the audiences can relate to. And so what are the bones of a good story? And it's all of those things. It's finding the characters, um, you know, not everybody is great on camera and that's okay. But if you have someone who is very experienced and has spent literally years interviewing all types of people, whether they were, you know, presidents of the United States, to the person who lives down the street. Just the gamut that we run, um, as human beings, that is very helpful in sitting across from someone who has never been in front of a camera before.
Heidi Collins:
And I've interviewed so many people who say to me at the beginning of the interview, “Oh yeah, no, no, no, I can't do this. I don't wanna be on camera. I don't wanna be on TV”. And I have to immediately say, “Oh, come on”. And I typically say, many people have heard me say this a thousand times, “This will be the easiest thing you do all day”. But then I have to get them to believe that, I have to get them to immediately trust me. And I have to, um, be able to pull out interesting things from them - other than the who, what, where, when, and why. Which is what we learn in, you know, journalism 101. It's just very much deeper than that, very much more personal and intimate than that. And the skill, you know, from having that from television news, usually, you know, I'm meeting someone for the very first time during a commercial break. And those commercial breaks are often, you know, two and a half to three minutes, um, or in a breaking news situation. Um, literally meeting them for the first time and then having to come back up live with their life story. And sometimes as we all know, with TV news or news in general, it can be pretty darn tragic. So how do you get people to trust you and feel comfortable and wanna share oftentimes, you know, difficult things? - Is something that I have absolutely taken with me and really, um, am thankful for in what I do now.
Sarah Panus:
You've coined a new term that I wanna talk about and it's called “Journomarketing”. What is Journomarketing? Tell us more
What is Journomarketing?
Heidi Collins:
Well, um, you know, it's not that high level, but yet I've had so many conversations and talked with so many brands and talked with so many colleagues in the storytelling industry or brand storytelling. Um, there really wasn't a term that I was aware of that any of us were aware of that sort of defined that sweet spot between journalism and marketing. You know, the sell versus the non-sell, what we were talking about earlier with product placement, you know, and this more subtle approach to allowing people to share their stories, almost like brand ambassadors, but to be completely authentic about it. You know, let's be honest, we're all selling stuff. Ultimately I am a marketer, but the Journomarketing is a little bit more about helping these people to talk organically and in a very 100% unscripted manner about their experiences with brands. And it's, you know, I often get asked, “Okay, well can we see a storyboard before we go forward?”
Heidi Collins:
And I kind of joke, well, we are, you know, the anti storyboard. I might add that to my LinkedIn profile. Um, because, you know, we can't possibly provide a storyboard because we don't know in Journomarketing and in journalism specifically, we don't know what we're going to get, when we go out and we do an interview, we start putting a story together. So what does that mean? That can be very scary for brands because they'll say - well, hang on a minute, you know, we're trying to, we're trying to explain these three different messages or we're trying to align with a campaign that is already going on and we have to have, you know, these certain things touched upon and um, really it would be gold if these people could say these certain things. And, you know, as a journalist, well that's like, that's a sin.
Heidi Collins:
You know, you don't give people your questions ahead of time. You don't tell them what to say. You know, none of that. So I think it's that very delicate area, gray area between pulling out the things that the brands want naturally and in conversation, so it's all about that interview style again, from their clients or their customers, or, you know, in a testimonial type situation so that it's trustworthy. And so that people watch and they say, “Oh, well that's amazing. I either didn't know that about this product or if he, or she can feel that way about that product or better their lives in some way from this product, well I could probably do that too”. So ultimately that's what we're all trying to do, it's just about how you go about getting it and how you go about putting those stories together with the beginning, middle and end, um, with the specific characters that can really relate and resonate.
Sarah Panus:
Yeah and I, I would just add to that though, too. So any brands that are listening right now who are like, “Oh, that would never fly, like we would be too nervous about just letting it go” is I will say personally from, you know, working with you on a project, it doesn't mean that like you're going off rogue and like there's no alignment beforehand from a shoot. Because what it means is you still align with the brand beforehand, on like “Hey, here's like an outline of the main points and purpose and things that we want to capture” but you're just not scripting it out like in a storyboard form of like step by step by step. But it still is that there's a very clear objective and very clear outcome of the types of things that you want to capture from the people that you're filming. Right?
Heidi Collins:
Exactly. And that's a great point because it all comes down to two things, research and pre-production. And anybody who's been in the production space or, you know, video storytelling space, or even just, um, even with print in any of it, if you haven't done your research, you know, you're gonna have a much more difficult time putting together something that's coherent or interesting, compelling - you know, is our big word. So the more pre-production you can do, it’s like studying for a test, right? The more pre-production you do, the more research and the more you know about your brand, about their, um, clientele, their customer base, their audience, their missions objectives, all of it - the more you know, the better the piece will be. You'll be able to find those gold nuggets and you'll know instantly in an interview.
Heidi Collins:
Like, you know, even my photo journalists that I work with, you know, I share a lot of pre-production with them, they know the brand almost as well as I do and you know what we're going out to try to accomplish. The minute somebody says, um, something that we know the brand is gonna love, we kind of get this little twinkle in our eyes. Yes! You know, he, or she said exactly what we needed them to say, but we never told them that. And that is how those nuggets are so much more valuable and have so much more impact because they're genuinely felt and they're genuinely, um, you know, what the clients or the customers are feeling.
Sarah Panus:
Okay, so is there a brand that you think is doing this really well right now?
Heidi shares what brands utilize the approach of Journomarketing
Heidi Collins:
You know, I have to be honest, there are so many just doing incredible things, I don't know if you feel the same way. But it's,
Sarah Panus:
It's growing more.
Heidi Collins:
Yeah! It's so exciting to be in this space and I feel really lucky cuz you know, sometimes timing is everything. And um, certainly with my career, my timing has been great in some moments and tragic in other moments. And I really feel like the transition, um, out of news and into brand storytelling for me personally, couldn't be, um, couldn't be better. There are so many brands who are, if they're not doing it already, they're considering it, they're building it in their budgets, and they're really contemplating adding this type of marketing, you know, to their overall plans. And I think that's really exciting. As far as examples, um, those that I love and kind of watch and have watched for years and years and years. Um, I would have to say, you know, Marriott. Everybody knows about Marriot, at least in this space, um, Marriott Bonvoy.
Heidi Collins:
And, um, how they have put together film and they've brought in, um, quite a bit of journalism, um, by way of their interview styles and really doing some exciting stuff. I've done a couple of events with Robin Benefield who, who runs that area and um, just super impressive and love that they're always pushing forward and, and staying on that cutting edge. Cuz they've been doing it for a long time now and they really are an interesting brand to watch in this space. I’d also say, um, you know, I've seen the list of brands that are, are going to be shown at Sundance. You mentioned that earlier, I'll be heading out there in January and, um, doing all of the interviews on the red carpet, so that'll be really fun.
Heidi Collins:
But HP, you know, has this really great series going right now and that's an interesting space to, or a tactic I should say, um, these different series events that brands are putting together. I really love that, that's very, you know, docu style and something that I'm, I'm really used to. So HP is doing something called generation impact. I haven't seen all of the pieces, but um, it's about how kids these days are really jumping into some of the technology spaces and teaching others, even, you know, adults, um, what it is that they're doing and really making some huge impact. And the one that I saw was called the coder and, um, it just is a fantastic film about a father and a daughter and building this app together. And a little girl I think was like 13 or 14 when she built this app. And um, it just makes you feel, and you just wanna know what she's gonna do next. And you fall in love with the characters because, um, if you, if you can't care about the characters, you're not gonna care about the story. It has to be intertwined. Deluxe, you know, a Minneapolis St Paul company, so many people have heard about small business revolution and Amanda Brinkman. I'm actually going to the, um, the launch of season six that is coming up and getting ready to go live in a couple of days.
Sarah Panus:
It is. And actually, um, for anyone listening, I interviewed Amanda Brinkman. She's the episode right before this one. So it's a two part series with Amanda, you guys can listen to. So after you listen to Heidi's, make sure you check out my interview with Amanda Brinkman at Deluxe too. Cuz it is a fascinating story of how it’s unfolded. It's really impressive.
Heidi Collins:
Yeah. She is very impressive. And the last one I would mention, um, just because, you know, it's just so fun to go and check out Airbnb and all the different houses. And not even just houses anymore, it's you know, they've gotten into hotels and so forth. And um, what I love about them and what I think is really important in what I try to do and try to help brands understand is they are very serious about, you know, putting the customer first and the brand second. And I think that's something that's really important with brand storytelling and, and again, sometimes not always the antithesis of traditional marketing. Their Belong Anywhere series is basically, you know, just that a lot of pieces were shot on cameras, I mean on iPhones. And it’s, it's people who own the homes that are renting them out to Airbnb customers and it's customers who are renting the homes, both they're stories, you know, just enjoying the heck out of their travel because of this relatively new outlet and service where you can go and rent somebody's house. And um, I think we all relate to that really well, so.
Sarah Panus:
Oh, those are great examples. Thank you for all of those. That's great inspiration for everyone listening. Okay, so I was gonna ask you about Sundance later, but since you brought it up, I wanna like follow up. I have a couple follow up questions from what you just said. Okay, did you say you're doing all the interviews on the red carpet at Sundance? Is that what you just said?
The insider scoop for the Sundance film festival
Heidi Collins:
Um yes, but this is to be clear, this is a Sundance sanctioned event that will be happening at the same time in park city, but yeah. So, um, very exciting.
Sarah Panus:
Is that the one that is sanctioned by Brand Storytelling, the organization or is it different?
Heidi Collins:
Yeah, BSN - Brand Storytelling Network. Yeah.
Sarah Panus:
Cool. Cool. Cool. Oh, that's impressive. And then, um, I think that was something else interesting is that to even just know that Sundance has like an event, especially sanction just for brand storytellers. So is it just for brand storytelling films and then they all get shown? Like, can you tell us a little bit more about what that's like?
Heidi Collins:
Yes. And also to be clear, um, it's my first time going. So I only know what I know.
Sarah Panus:
What you think it's gonna be like, what you’ve been told.
Heidi Collins:
Yeah, but you're exactly right. I was floored when I learned about the Brand Storytelling Network, having a sanctioned event specifically for brand storytellers at the Sundance Film Festival. So yes, we'll be going out there the same time as the Sundance film festival is happening, which is January 3rd week in January. But this is, I joke with people, this is kind of the work event, uh, because we get to see brand films and we get to screen them and look at them and learn from them and talk to the brands and talk to the creators. And that's gonna be priceless time. I'm doing all of the, uh, the red carpet interviews with these brands and those that have been, um, nominated or those that have been chosen to be screened. And I think for me personally, it just is more validation that, gosh, you know, if there is an event that is sanctioned through Sundance, it's been going on for quite a long time as well.
Heidi Collins:
Um, you know, we didn't get to do it last year, but this year it's gonna be amazing to, to get to experience this. It really tells me that brand storytelling is exploding more and more. We have more brands this year. I'm looking at the list right now and name a brand, I'm pretty much sure they're gonna be on this list. It's about, you know, 40 different brands, um, to include Sleep Number, our friends. So that will be just fascinating to hear from them directly too. You know, what are you finding that is successful? What are you finding that's missing still? It's gonna be one heck of a learning experience and, um, very, very exciting.
Sarah Panus:
Yeah, definitely. And, and it sounds like, I know we were talking earlier about like the variety of brand videos that are gonna be shown at Sundance. It goes, you know, from short three minutes to longer, you were saying 50 some minutes, is that right? So there really is a wide range.
Heidi Collins:
Yeah. A very wide range. And you know, we were talking earlier about series pieces too. Like, you know, brands that are doing, um, two part series, three part series, monthly series, whatever, whatever they can do to stay connected to their audience and what they're finding is successful. So yeah, I think there's, um, one that has been chosen to be screened that's something like 50 minutes. And there's another one that, um, that everybody's kind of going crazy for that was shot entirely on an iPhone too. So just, you know, interesting, um, techniques as well. That'll be really fun to see. And it's a whole process, you know, you go and submit your film, um, to the Brand Storytelling Network. And then there's quite a judging panel. Um, you know, people who've been in this space at very high executive levels for years and years and years that get together and spend hours just like the Sundance Film Festival itself or the independent films, uh, and votes and choose a small number to be screened when we're out there. I'm looking forward to submitting something very soon. I'm not doing anything this year. I figured I should just go and kind of experience it and be the newbie. Um, but I'm, I'm really excited about having that potential opportunity. Yeah. It's
Sarah Panus:
Yeah. It’s gonna be exciting. It sounds great. Okay. Well, I think that's a good spot for a commercial break. So stick around folks because this, the next part, Heidi and I are gonna get into more around like advice and things she's seeing around how to structure your content teams and then also video storytelling advice. So stay tuned
Commercial Break
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what works well when companies structure their teams
Sarah Panus:
Okay, Heidi. So companies are investing in brand storytelling to better connect with their audiences as we've been talking about. And I know we're both seeing, um, a lot of that growth and I'm seeing a mix of growing both internal content teams paired with external experts like us to help with strategy, ideation, production, distribution, support, you know, all the things. So I have two questions for you. One, is gonna be around team structures. And then the second, is around video storytelling advice. So let's start with team structures first. Um, and my question is, you know, as companies are thinking about their content team structures - it's all the time, it's what I hear is like, always thinking about how they're, um, structured, whether it's, you know, the people, the roles, the skill sets on those teams, like what are you seeing work?
Heidi Collins:
I love this question because it's really part of the reason why I felt it necessary to, to come up with a term that kind of helped companies understand where they could structure, um, people like me. So typically, um, my experience has been that, um, you know, inside corporate or inside brands, a journalist, well, I, I shouldn't even say a journalist, a storyteller goes under the marketing team, right. Either under creative or, um, on the creative team and, and that's where everything sort of comes together. But what I've found is difficult about that is it's almost like, you know, you've got Bud and Bud Light, so journalists are much more about, you know, marketing light and there, there wasn't really a space for that in brands that I've worked with. The other, the other positioning can be under corporate communications.
Heidi Collins:
Well, that’s great. But you know, it's not really corporate communications either, which is, you know, the internal team, the external team, the PR team. We're not really PR, we understand paid and earned and all of that, but we're not really PR. Um, so, so oftentimes within that traditional structure, corporate communications, isn't really right either. So how cool would it be in that gray area between marketing, between corporate communications, cuz you absolutely need strong partnerships there. You know, there's a journal marketing team, that sweet spot between journalism, communications and marketing. So I feel like, um, and I feel pretty strongly about this, but it's just only because of the experience that I've had, that's all I have to go on. That, um, there, there should be and could vary validly be a vertical on its own and in between those two spaces, if that makes sense, and heck why not call it journal marketing, the journal marketing team.
Sarah Panus:
And just helping, cuz I do see a trend of a lot of former journalists and uh, storytelling experts and things that are being brought inside whether full time or, you know, as consultants that are working very hand in hand, um, to help brands better connect with their audiences.
Heidi Collins:
Yeah. And I think, um, I, I love, I love, love that you like the term. I love that. It makes sense. And I love that it might actually, you know, help clear up some of the blur because I definitely felt it inside, um, the companies where I've, where I've been inside and not as an external partner, not really knowing what to do with me all the time. And I kept trying to explain through quite frankly, through examples that other brands were doing and the work that they were doing, which was super helpful to me. And trying to help them understand that, you know, we do go very, very deep, like, you know, one of the places I’ve worked there are many different individual companies inside this brand. And so I needed to learn about every single one of those companies before I could go to the lead of that team and say, listen, I think you guys have a really great story that we could be telling that could align with this campaign that’s coming up on the content calendar, you know, I don’t know next month or whatever.
Heidi Collins:
Can you help me? And are you interested in, you know, I was constantly selling constantly pitching, but I was pitching stories and I was pitching, um, that research behind how to make the two come together, the characters, you know, the content calendar and, and then the product. So, I mean, I think all of us are doing that to a certain degree but the idea of doing it from an investigative sort of, you know, interviewing, um, tactic or approach was new and, and is still new.
Sarah Panus:
Okay. Okay. So then I wanna go into then in terms of creating then those better video stories, like what advice do you want my listeners to keep top of mind for how to create better video stories?
Heidi offers advice that you should keep on hand
Heidi Collins:
So I don't have all the answers, but I, I would say as far as, um, you know, some of the basics about what makes good brand filmmaking or video storytelling, um, is about finding the right people with the right skill sets. And it is unusual, even at this point, though your point is very well taken and it's true that more journalists are coming into the corporate setting and working with brands, but you know, it's not exactly natural to have like a whole team of journalists. Oh yeah. Let's go to the, the journalist guy over there and talk with him about storytelling. You know, that's not like a huge team that corporate typically has. So I would say, you know, go to the people who've been doing it for their entire lives, or who've been trained to interview, who’ve been trained in story flow, who’ve been trained to help people feel comfortable if you’re talking about brand filmmaking in front of a camera, who’ve been trained to understand the value of truth.
Heidi Collins:
And you know, not trying to create kind of like a scheme. Um, hey, maybe if we're really creative and strategic, they won't realize we're trying to sell 'em something. You know, people are way smarter than that and um, those of us who've had the experience in television, specifically television, we are very sensitive to those who wanna change the channel. And so how do you continually make video that is compelling for an audience member to watch all the way through to the end? Well, you know, that's, that's part of what you get, um, when you're working with TV news journalists, because we had to audiences, uh, literally all over the world. And in order to do that, you gotta be a good storyteller.
Heidi Collins:
You've got to be able to develop characters. You've gotta know when is too much and when isn't enough - when you're using sound bites from interviews, when you are, um, developing video, um, and, and more compelling video than like a city council meeting. You know, if city council is doing a big story, the least amount of video that people wanna watch is the actual city council meeting. You've gotta find video that describes and builds out what the issue is from the meeting, not the meeting itself. So it sounds really elementary, but you know, if you don't have that training, you think, well, obviously I have to show some of the meeting. But you know, you, you don't. You have to be able to build the characters out in interesting ways that wanna keep people watching and keep them connected and relating to those characters.
Sarah Panus:
Are there any like common mistakes that you see companies doing when it comes to video storytelling?
Heidi Collins:
Um, I would say legalities are, are often areas that, um, that brands or, you know, corporations are very, very sensitive to, and it's completely understandable. Um, but when you're doing an interview as a journalist, and by the way, we take an awful lot of law classes going through journalism and many journalists are, uh, go to law school afterwards. Um, and there are, there are a are specific reasons for that. What are we allowed to say, what are we allowed to claim, which is two very, very different things. And, and what are we gonna get past legal? You know, that's a real thing because if I'm sitting down in someone's home and they're telling me how they feel about the product or the service, that's real and true and you do not have to put disclaimers on every single statement that is made. sometimes you do.
Heidi Collins:
Sometimes you do, and obviously, you know, there's a risk reward that, that you have to evaluate, but if this is someone's story and it is their truth, there are far more allowances than I think most corporations and maybe that's too strong of a word, many corporations brands, um, aren't comfortable with, or, or don't know. So I actually really enjoy working with legal and helping them to understand and, and kind of coming together, um, about what you're actually able to, to allow someone to say, which is a heck of a lot more than people realize. As long as the brand isn't saying it and this is the person's true, authentic experience, oftentimes, you know, there's way more of a margin there. I did a, a webcast once, um, with the Brand Storytelling Network - that I loved the name, um, it was called The True Story About Brands Telling True Stories. So if, if someone is, you know, telling you their true story, it's true. No claim, no disclaimer needed.
Sarah Panus:
Well, and I'm sure everyone listening, we've all have bearing levels of that legality back and forth. Which I know you have too and so that, that's good food for thought too as we're going through to maintain, we don't legalize it. I always think of it as like, we don't wanna legalize it to death so that we lose the heart of the story, lose like the emotion or any of the feeling of the story.
Heidi Collins:
Uh, I mean, even further Sarah, to me, and I know this is from my journalism DNA and there have been, you know, many things where I've had to bend on things and learn like, okay, I'm, I'm more of a marketer now than, than I am a, you know, fact sharer if you will. But, it really does come down to credibility. And the more disclaimers, or the more words on the screen, is what I always call them, I think it really affects the credibility of a brand and the trust. Because, you know, like I said earlier, people are smarter than that. The second that they sense a commercial, you know, they're gone. So it's a really delicate, it's a difficult area.
Sarah Panus:
Okay. So that was great insight. Thank you. Um, I wanna switch gears a little bit and ask you a question that I ask my guest. Um, which is, you know, we've talked about your skillset and now I'd love to just talk a little bit more about anything you've learned in your career. So, can you tell us about a time in your career where you've learned to have empathy for yourself?
When Heidi learned to have empathy for herself
Heidi Collins:
I think I would say empathy for myself is much harder than, you know, empathy for others. Um, I'm pretty hard on myself. Journalists are oftentimes, I mean, I don't wanna be too stereotypical, but are fighters. Um, you have to be able to, based on research and based on fact, you have to be able to be very strong about positions that you take, and you're not gonna win all the time. So I'm not, I'm not really talking about fighting with colleagues. I’m talking about fighting for what's right in a piece or fighting for a strong storyline that you think is really important and is going to be, um, great for the brand. I think I have had to learn empathy for myself in that it's okay if a brand or a partner or someone I'm collaborating with thinks that their storyline is stronger. I think it's hard, if I'm being completely transparent, for me to admit that because I'm supposed to be the SME.
Heidi Collins:
I'm supposed to be the storyteller who's been doing this for, you know, 25 years, in sort of a different area. I'm supposed to be the one who knows how to break through to all different types of audiences. But I think I've had to let myself off the hook, um, several times to be able to say, here's the difference - I don't know the brand as well as the brand. And I have to allow myself to, um, to realize that, you know, this is much more about “a coming together” than it is always about “that's not just as good of a story, this one's better”. You know, you, it's a, it's a round ball with a lot of sharp edges.
Sarah Panus:
I love that visual. That's a really good visual and that topic is one I'm sure a lot of people listening can relate to in general. Cause it just really boils down to two, like just all of us. I mean in a creative industry where you're sharing your creative ideas, it's hard to not always have your idea be the one that's picked, but instead to think of it with the collaboration and all the skill sets that are coming into it. And you're right, especially as external consultants that are going in and helping brands, cuz I'm on I'm on that side too now it it's, they will always know the brand the best cause they're inside. And so that's where the magic though can happen, is that collaboration between the two. Um, thank you for sharing that.
Heidi Collins:
Sure. Absolutely.
Sarah Panus:
Okay. Well, love talking to you as always, but we're gonna be wrapping up soon. So, is there anything else I should ask you about, but I haven't yet?
MORE ABOUT HEIDI's BUSINESS
Heidi Collins:
Uh, just shameless plugs.
Sarah Panus:
Okay. Well, well that let's do shameless plugs. Cuz I was gonna ask you how people can connect with you. So is that, is that gonna be a nice segway into that? Like let's talk about shameless plugs and how people can connect with you and work with you and all the good things.
Heidi Collins:
Yeah, absolutely. And you know what, it's not a totally shameless plug cuz there's a story behind it that I think is fun to share because those of us who either work with brands or work externally, you know, it's an evolution. I think I, I probably started, um, this company within, gosh, I was just really, really lucky. I had clients waiting for me. I had done, um, 55 brand films with um, my former company, Lifetime. And it was time for me to go out on my own, but I had clients waiting, which was a huge, huge luxury. So I think I named the company within about 15 minutes, created a logo on some clip art thing that I, you know, had no business doing, that is not my strength. And I called it Thomas and Edwards group. It's the middle names of my, um, two boys, our two boys and um, the greatest stories of my life. And I thought, okay, well that's a pretty good story. Let’s go with that.
Heidi Collins:
But you know, in all honesty, it kind of sounds like a law firm, doesn't really say anything about what it is that that I do. And we've been so lucky that the company has grown as much as it has and we've got the great clients that we have. And of course always looking to work with more, um, that I really realized and got a lot of advice from people saying, listen, you're, you're like this digital marketer and you're telling brands that they need to use video and they need to, you know, have social media strategy with the video. But you don't have a website and you don't have a digital footprint. So that's very inconsistent. So I believed them and even though I said I was never gonna have a website, I was only gonna work with people within my network or those who wanted to share networks, um, I’ve decided that that inconsistency in my own storytelling, um, became important.
Heidi Collins:
So, now we have created Storybones Media as, uh, you introduced me with which I love to hear. It's a brand new name and there is a website storybonesmedia.com. And um, I will have an email, you know, hcollins@storybonesmedia.com. So it's all happening like real companies and I'm no longer under the radar. You know, quite frankly, what had happened, Sarah was, you know, I was signing a lot of NDAs with everybody who was doing a lot of executive coaching and I've done that for years and years and years. And that's kind of where a lot of the business for me started with whatever specific brand and then it would, the scope would grow, which was wonderful. And then, you know, came the video storytelling or brand filmmaking, but you know, I'd already, um, signed NDAs and wanted to really make sure that brands that I was working with were comfortable and that we had that trust factor. So I, I haven't been able to share, um, some of the work that I've been doing with brands, um, until now, because I, I just think it's too important. So yes. I will have a website.
Sarah Panus:
So people, so everyone go, so you're like extra legit now? Is that what you're saying? You're not behind the scenes legit anymore. You're like front and center, front facing legitimate.
Heidi Collins:
Yeah, yeah. There you go.
Sarah Panus:
No, you're amazing. So, so folks can find you and connect with you on storybonesmedia.com. I'll make sure I put that link in the show notes. And is there anywhere else online, like any social channels or anywhere else you'd like to direct people to?
Heidi Collins:
You know, I think that we'll be, will be pretty specific and small on that for a lot of reasons, but, um, I know I'll have a LinkedIn presence. I, I really do like LinkedIn. Uh, unfortunately in my TV career, I, I had bad experiences, um, well with a stalker to be perfectly honest. And so I've been very, I, I always get that reaction. It, it was pretty serious. So I, I have been quite frankly, very afraid to get, you know, on the Facebooks and the Twitters and, uh, I, I just, so I still have reservations.
Sarah Panus:
That's understandable.
Heidi Collins:
Yeah. So we'll just keep it professional on, um, on LinkedIn.
Sarah Panus:
On LinkedIn and storybonesmedia.com. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for coming on Heidi and chatting with me and just, you know, sharing your wisdom with my audience. I appreciate it.
Heidi Collins:
Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. I love working with you. I love the podcast, Marketing With Empathy is something that, um, I really do think we can all learn from and share great ideas. So I appreciate you and your time putting it together. And, uh, you always do your research, which is very, very cool. So thank you.
Sarah Panus:
Okay, folks until next week, we'll talk to you later. Bye bye.
Closing Remarks
Hi fives for finishing another episode. When faced with an obstacle, you’re the type of person who gets better instead of bitter. I hope you feel creatively inspired and invite you to check back often for more goodness from me and my guest. If you want more actionable advice and inspiration head over to kindredspeak.com for show notes, all discount codes from today's episode, and to sign up for my newsletter. Subscribe now to the Marketing With Empathy Podcast on Apple podcast, Spotify and wherever else you get your podcast. And if you'd be so kind, will you please leave me a review. This helps my podcast get noticed by others. Keep smiling.
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ABOUT SARAH PANUS
Sarah Panus is a brand storytelling marketing strategist, Minnesota mom, and owner of Kindred Speak, LLC, a remote consultancy that helps corporations attract upper-funnel leads that drive bottom-funnel results through storytelling. Her mission is to add value to the world by humanizing brand+consumer connections. Her online courses teach content professionals inside corporations think like Editorial Directors for their brand to drive stronger results while enjoying their jobs more. She’s spent the last 20 years helping brands including Sleep Number, Starbucks, Nestle Waters, Christos Bridal, Game Crazy, Cone Inc, and others, speak a kindred language with their audiences, driving brand advocacy and millions in revenue and brand engagements. Learn more at www.kindredspeak.com. Follow Sarah on Instagram and LinkedIn.
