Failing the National Psychology Exam (with Betty Farrell)

[00:00:00] Bronwyn: Hey, mental workers you're listening to the Mental Work Podcast, your companion to early career psychology, sponsored by the Australian Association of Psychologists. I'm your host, Dr. Bronwyn Milkins, and today we are talking about failing the National Psychology Exam.

We all know that people fail exams, and that includes in our own profession. How could they not? Not everybody is going to pass something that is quite difficult and It really is challenging, but we don't often talk about it.

So here today to help us unpack this topic is someone who's been on the podcast before. They've been a fantastic guest and they've offered to come back to talk about their experiences with us. And that guest is Betty Farrell. Hi Betty.

[00:00:48] Betty: Hi Bron, how good to be back and see you all again today.

[00:00:53] Bronwyn: Yeah, it's so nice to have you back on. Betty, could you just remind listeners who you are and what your non psychology passion is?

[00:01:01] Betty: so I am a late to the career kind of woman. I'm in my mid fifties. My favourite thing is the beach, and um, sea glass, and hag stones, and all of those kind of wonderful superstitious things. Um, spending time with my kids, and of course, my ever growing grandkids are wonderful. But books, tea, quiet times, a good glass of gin, those are my favourite things.

[00:01:24] Bronwyn: Those all sound amazing. Can I ask you from that, you know, I was talking to a six year old last week and we were talking about sea glass and I thought sea glass was literally bottles, glass bottles that are broken on the beach and that's what she was calling sea glass. Is that what sea glass is?

[00:01:42] Betty: Oh sweetie, see glass is, can can also be called mermaid money.

[00:01:47] Bronwyn: Ah, cool.

[00:01:48] Betty: is fabulous, so it is glass that is broken in the sea, but it's ground down over time with sand and rocks until it becomes these beautiful little pieces of glass.... you find one on the beach, it is just amazing.

[00:02:02] Bronwyn: Oh, cause she was really disappointed. And I was telling her, I was like, you know, it's probably a good thing that there's not much sea glass around here. Thinking that it's like, it's good that nobody's broken bottles around here.

[00:02:12] Betty: No it's not sharp, it's all ground down, um, mermaid mermaid tears, mermaid money, yeah, sea glass. It's fabulous stuff.

[00:02:20] Bronwyn: Thank you. I'll have to go back and apologize the six year old. Thanks, Betty. Yeah. The beach is so amazing and listeners, Betty has been on the podcast before talking about their 4 plus 2 journey, as well as what to do when you receive feedback from colleagues and you make mistakes at your job and here she is to come back with quite a vulnerable topic, which is failing the National Psychology Exam.

So just before we get stuck into it, Betty, I'll just tell anybody who doesn't know what the exam is, the National Psychology Exam is an exam that you are required to take if you are undertaking the 4 plus 2 or the 5 plus 1 pathway, or you are coming from overseas and coming to Australia, or if you have some other program where you need to get equivalent qualifications, and then you need to take the exam. And the thing about this exam, and correct me if I'm wrong, Betty, because I took it, gosh, like four years ago now. It's like three hours long. There's 150 multiple choice questions and you have to get over 70 percent to pass it. that right?

[00:03:27] Betty: that's right. So it's the four curriculums. Ethics, Intervention, um, Assessment and Communication. You've got to get 70%. It's timed and yeah, it's a lot of work.

[00:03:39] Bronwyn: It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work to prepare and it's, that's quite a high pass mark. And when you, when you pass or when you fail, you don't get told what your mark is. Right?

[00:03:50] Betty: you actually do find out when you failed,,,

[00:03:53] Bronwyn: Oh, really?

[00:03:54] Betty: what your mark is and also what area of the curriculum you didn't do so great in.

So that's fabulous but for...

[00:04:01] Bronwyn: that's actually helpful.

[00:04:02] Betty: For someone who failed by four marks the first time and three marks the second time, it doesn't really help a great deal I'm sorry to say.

[00:04:11] Bronwyn: No, no, that sense. And just another added dimension to that is I can't quite remember the cost. Um, so sorry to bring this up for you, Betty, but I think it's important to draw out because it is a substantial time plus financial commitment. My recollection is like 350, 400.

[00:04:29] Betty: Keep going, get closer to 450, 450 and you're right.

[00:04:33] Bronwyn: Oh my goodness. Yep. So, and you pay that every time.

[00:04:37] Betty: You do, you do, you pay it every time. Unless there's been like, um, something that's gone wrong with your exam. There's been an internet issue. That is not your fault. Then, um, APRAH will, um, let you sit the next test for free. But how, how often does that happen? I'm not really sure.

[00:04:55] Bronwyn: Yeah, no, not sure.

So Betty, now that listeners are familiar, or if they. We're already familiar. They're a bit more familiar. I'd like to just start off by asking you if you could share a little bit about the times that you've taken the National Psychology exam. So you've taken it twice...

[00:05:13] Betty: I've taken it twice, Mm hmm.

[00:05:16] Bronwyn: what were your initial thoughts and feelings that you experienced after finding out that you did not pass the exam?

[00:05:24] Betty: So the first time I sat at home I used my own internet. the exam is three hours long, that's correct. The exam duration for me on that day was five and a half hours.

[00:05:36] Bronwyn: Oh...

[00:05:37] Betty: anytime your internet drops below a certain speed, the exam is frozen, you need to wait for someone to come online, you have to test your internet again, when the speed is correct they restart the exam. So for those five and a half hours, I only looked at every question once and then I just submitted.

So, you know, you go into an exam. You're getting ready for it, you know this is quite big, this is the last step before registration. Um, you're quite anxious already as is, but then to run into kind of internet problems, things that you have no control over, is really frustrating. So by the time I got to the end of the exam and had completed all of the questions, I was like, just submit, take it off my hands, submit.

After that exam, I actually went away. I went overseas and visited some family that are quite ill. You know, when I came back and I found out I hadn't passed the exam, I thought, you know what, the level of anxiety, the internet issues, you know, you'd be really pretty arrogant to think that you could go through once and get all of the questions right.

So I kind of like took it on the chin. It's okay, I get to re sit it. Um, by the time I sat the second test, I thought, right, extra study, extra... extra work was done. I went into the exam office in the city and sat it there. So no internet problems. I've overcome that one.

The first time I'd only failed by about four marks. So, pretty rock solid. Do some more work on um, Intervention was the one that I had failed in, I'd passed the three other areas but intervention was where I'd lost marks. So I paid for another course and um, those kind of training courses as well are quite expensive too. So I think I've paid um, 950 for one course and the second one I paid was 850 as well as other courses as well.

[00:07:23] Bronwyn: wow. It's a lot.

[00:07:25] Betty: Textbooks, don't get me started on textbooks, you know, isn't that the bane of our existence?

[00:07:31] Bronwyn: Absolutely, yes.

[00:07:32] Betty: I went and sat it, I felt a bit nervous, but I sat it, I read through, I submitted, and I came out thinking, okay, I think I did fairly well. Fast forward to another couple of weeks and I get my email and the letter saying you've not passed, and this time I've not passed by three questions in assessment.

[00:07:51] Bronwyn: Uh.

[00:07:52] Betty: To say I was wounded is an understatement. I was telling a friend I cried that night, like I have not wept since my mother died six years ago.

[00:08:04] Bronwyn: Wow.

[00:08:05] Betty: Seriously, seriously, a bolt from the blue really caught me off guard. I had done all of this preparation. You know, I'm quite competent at my job and, and the worst part was I'd finished all of my observations. I'd finished all of my case reports. Um, I was ready to be signed off. This was the last threshold to be completed to say that I was a competent, adequate, working psychologist, worthy of General Reg. And so to not pass was agony. Um, so there was a lot of F words used.

[00:08:41] Bronwyn: Yep.

[00:08:42] Betty: Fear, finances, fraud, failure and a big dose of home cook shame as well. I was mortified to then go back to people who had cheered me on and said yes, yes, you'll get it this time and say to them that I hadn't passed. I was embarrassed to go into my workplace and say, you know what, I guess I'm just not good enough again.

Um, I've got an aunt in Ireland who lit a candle for me and to have to say to her, um, yeah, that didn't work, I'll have to do it again. And even to say to my children, you know, I used to be a teacher, I've got a master's degree, I've won awards for innovative I've done in education. So to go back to my children and say, you know what? I'm just not good enough and sitting in that space of a failure and feeling like a fraud and feeling embarrassed and having to go and tell people that I work with that I didn't succeed, all of those other voices came up as well that, you know, you're not clever enough. You shouldn't be in this space. You know, perhaps I should go back to teaching. I did it for 20 years. I was very good at it.

Maybe I'm not Built to be a psych, maybe I'm not smart enough and then all of that language attached to shame that comes in, you're never going to be good enough. You know, you do all this work and the baseline is only 70 percent and you still can't make that. Really really hard times.

And I heard every voice from my teen years that told me I wasn't smart enough, quick enough, fast enough, brilliant enough, hardworking enough to ever do anything with my life. And all of that kind of came flooding in. And you know, the horror about shame is it then does isolate us.

[00:10:32] Bronwyn: Yes.

[00:10:32] Betty: You know, and when I told my people that I work with that I hadn't passed, you know, they're wonderful and they want to make you feel better and they want to acknowledge the things that are good about you. And they want to say, well, next time we'll do this or, you know, I only just passed by a small amount or, you know, you could try this or, but it doesn't erase that internal dialogue of everybody else is passing. What the hell's wrong with me?

[00:10:57] Bronwyn: Yeah, so understandably they want to take away some of your pain and make you feel better and know that... and help you know that they still love and respect you, but you're still sitting in that shame.

[00:11:09] Betty: Yeah, definitely. And like even to this day, running into people and they say, you know, have you finished your internship? Um, and having to say, well, no, I've got to sit the MPE. Oh, I thought you already did that. Um, no, I failed. I have to do it again.

And that's the thing. I, um, I think that was one of the biggest lessons for me about the internship. And that's what I would say to people who've not passed. It. is a marathon, it's not a sprint. I had worked every weekend. I had taken very few holidays. I worked every public holiday I could to get all of my tasks done, to get all of my case reports done, to get all of my observations done, to get all of my hours done. And I had finished that work in about 19 months.

[00:11:59] Bronwyn: Which is incredible.

[00:12:01] Betty: Which is also ridiculous.

[00:12:03] Bronwyn: Ridiculous, yes. I didn't want to, uh, bully you. So I said incredible instead.

[00:12:10] Betty: But that was a thing. I think I had put so much stock in. Yes, yes, but look, I'm working so hard and I'm being so diligent and I'm doing all of this. The NPE is the next, next little step for me to complete. And then ta da, I'll be fully formed.

[00:12:27] Bronwyn: Yeah, it really sounds like, like the NPE is the hurdle and I just need to jump over this hurdle. I've done all the prep work. I've done all the background work that I can just need to jump this hurdle and then I can go out to people and celebrate and be like, yes, I passed.

[00:12:41] Betty: Exactly, but what it does is it doesn't acknowledge, it doesn't acknowledge the lessons you've learnt along the way.

[00:12:49] Bronwyn: Yep.

[00:12:49] Betty: And it also tells you that there's a finish date, and when you reach this finish date, ta da, you'll be perfect. But um, that's not a reality, and we know that's not a reality. And we know that there should never be a day where we finish learning either.

[00:13:05] Bronwyn: Yeah. And that sounds like a really healthy way of thinking about it, Betty. I am wondering whether you had any urges following the exam, like maybe you had the urge to hide away and not talk to anyone, or maybe there was a strong urge to be like, okay, I'm not cut out for this. Maybe I will leave.

[00:13:23] Betty: Well I did and I know... you know we all know the dates that results are released. We all know in our circle, don't we? So I kind of thought, how, how long can I leave this before I have to address the elephant in the room with people at work and, and my workplace supervisor as well? And um, And how do you do that? Do you just tell one person and hope that office gossip gets it around and people will leave you alone? Or do you send an email out to everybody and say, Oh, I'm a loser. I couldn't do it again.

You know, so I spoke to, I spoke to a close circle of friends. I thought, you know, I'm just going to do it like ripping off a bandaid. I spent a couple of days withdrawn and isolated and. And really humiliated, which really, you know, to those who've not passed, there's many reasons we don't pass. This is only one form of testing. It's a very language based way of testing. That may not our strength. One of my dear friends, um, is Italian, so English is his second language. So of course he's going to struggle with a heavy language... um, component. Um, I've met really brilliant women from the Middle East who've overcome great things to come to our country and become a psych and they failed.

It, this is not a measure or the only measure of the challenges we've faced and the challenges we succeeded with and so I would encourage those who've not passed. Who've not met that threshold yet to not beat themselves up so much, but to have a plan of what you're going to do next. And my first step was going into work and telling people. So I spoke to a small group of my close friends and said, you know, I've got my results, I've not passed. I didn't even tell them that it's only by three marks. What does it matter whether it's a half a mark or a hundred marks? You you didn't.

And I spoke to my supervisor who didn't do the exam because she's been a registered psych since before July 2013. And she said to me about her concerns about her ability to pass. So actually having those conversations about the difficulty and failure, it really allowed other people to have some space to talk about. Yeah, this is very difficult. Yeah, this is challenging and I don't know with even my knowledge base today how I would go with such a highly pressured exam and a highly structured exam that is multiple choice only, when that's not always the way we learn.

[00:16:01] Bronwyn: Was that helpful to hear that from your supervisor and I guess be reminded that it is such a high pressure, difficult exam to alleviate the personalization you were doing with yourself, which was like, this must mean that I'm a failure and that kind of global evaluation of yourself.

[00:16:19] Betty: I worked with a colleague who had failed previously, so I contacted her the night of the exam, the night I got the letter to say, you know, I've not passed again. Now she had not passed up until her third time either. And she sent me a really lovely message about how the difference between our journey and those who pass the first time is the people who pass the first time, well and good to them, they deserve it, they deserve it, but we have fought so hard and struggled not just with the exam but with our identity that it gives us a greater appreciation for the work that we do you. And when we're dealing with people who are facing their own challenges, we've got some stored life experience of disappointment, you know, coming back in the second chapter. And that was really helpful, I found.

[00:17:09] Bronwyn: That's a really nice way of looking at it and being able to have those sorts of experiences that you can then take with you into the future.

[00:17:18] Betty: Well, and I think there's, there's heaps of things that we're not great at, isn't there?

[00:17:23] Bronwyn: Absolutely. Tons of things.

[00:17:27] Betty: I'm not the world's greatest cook, don't ask my kids about my couscous phase, you know,

sultanas and I thought I was fancy. But um, lots of things we're not great at, but it doesn't weigh around our neck like this does because it's so tied to our professional identity.

[00:17:41] Bronwyn: It is. And that, and when you've been doing all those tasks and work has been consuming you and you've been thinking about this for the past, you know, almost two years, it's, it's, it can take a big hit to your, your pride and your sense of self.

[00:17:55] Betty: Definitely, definitely. And you know, especially when you think, you know, when we have a deficit, we think, well, what is it that I need to do? What is the thing that's missing from this story? How can I improve this? And I think, um, read the textbooks. Oh no, I've done that. Join some new courses. Oh, I've done that. Join an online supervision group. I've done that. Like you've done all of these things and sometimes you just have to go. What does failing mean? Let's not skip past this part of our story. Let's sit here for a minute and have a good look at it and see, for now, what do I need, and in the future I'll worry about what does the prep look like. I think we talk about self care a lot as psychologists. I know you and I spoke about it last time when we were talking about receiving feedback...

[00:18:46] Bronwyn: yeah.

[00:18:47] Betty: but, you know, and I've Uh, I've been resistant to self care because I think, no, no, we're on a time frame, we've got to get this work done. This is how we demonstrate competence and strength and capacity. We work, work, work, work, work, but um, this has really knocked the wind out of my sails and has said to me, you need to slow down.

[00:19:06] Bronwyn: Yeah, I'll tell you what I tell my clients, which is that at times of vulnerability, you actually need more compassion, more care. You are actually deserving of more of that because you are hurting, because you are in pain. We need much more care.

[00:19:21] Betty: And do you know the really interesting thing about that is there's a woman in my office who's very compassionate, very empathetic and would say to me, you know, you are clever. This isn't just a, and I just thought the more she said it, I just didn't want to hear it.

But right because we're in that place of pain and it does make it hard to hear from others. No, no, you are competent until we start to re engage with that and believe it ourselves.

[00:19:47] Bronwyn: Yeah. How did, how did you begin to re engage with that and believe in yourself?

[00:19:52] Betty: I think I dragged my big bag of shame around with me for as long as I could. And then I realized like all things you have to put it down. You know, um, I felt shock. I was in denial. You know, I felt a lot of shame. I felt a bit depressed. But you know, there's always, you can always sit the next exam, can't you?

And, and talking to other people who've failed, and being really frank and open about what does that feel like, you kind of think I'm not in this alone, and this is hurdle, it's not a full stop.

[00:20:27] Bronwyn: that's really lovely. And, um, as you're talking, Betty, It reminds me, it does echoes to my PhD experience actually, and with my PhD, my PhD took me eight years to complete, and I was one of the last people in my cohort who had started, to finish their PhD. So a lot of the feelings of shame and I'm not cut out for this, I'm not good enough, showed up for me as well.

And it was talking to other people who had taken the length of time that I had. But as well, a unique thing is that I had access to statistics about how long it took people on average to finish their PhDs. And the expectation is that you'll finish your PhD in three or four years, whereas the reality is that most people finish their PhDs at the six and seven year mark. So I was like, Oh, I'm not actually that far behind.

But I think the difficult thing about the national psychology exam is that you don't have those statistics about the number of people who fail. I think that can lead to more shame and isolation because you might be thinking, am I the only one?

[00:21:27] Betty: Well, and I think, um, I think a lot of people don't talk about it, and and I think some people who are sitting the exam don't then tell their colleagues that they're sitting the exam in case they fail, so they're pre empting that they're not sharing that news.

But I just, when you're talking about your PhD and getting it done in eight years, how is it any better than a PhD done in six years, or four?

[00:21:51] Bronwyn: we both have, we both have the same degree.

[00:21:53] Betty: That's right, and yet we up these expectations in ourselves, or at least I had, that if I get it done quicker, then that proves that I'm better?

[00:22:04] Bronwyn: Yeah. But it's bizarre when you think about it like that, because it doesn't mean that at all.

[00:22:08] Betty: I think sometimes when we rush through things, we really don't get the depth of experience that we should and I wonder if that's been the case for me, that I've just worked so hard that I've skimmed through the top of it.

But, but you're right. So what if I said it four times? What if I said it five times? What if I said it six times? Does that mean that I'm not a compassionate, connected psychologist? Does that mean I can't assist people? to live their best lives. Does it mean that I'm not a valued colleague? That I can't perform decent interventions for families that are struggling? That I can't do screening tools correctly? Like, it doesn't mean any of those things, does it?

[00:22:52] Bronwyn: No I don't think it does. And I think coming back to the structure of the exam. So I remember when I was doing the exam that there were many questions that were. Difficult for me as a native English speaker who has grown up in Australia, English is my first language, that were difficult for me to comprehend. Which is not part of my psychology training. That's not reflective of me as a professional that was reflective of my ability to comprehend, uh, questions.

I also remember that there were lots of questions where it was like, is it not this one? There was like some double negatives and then you had to be like all of the above, or not this one, not this one, not that one. And that was confusing as well.

So I, and I don't think that was a reflection of my ability either. Like I walked out of my exam not being confident at all that I had passed. And yeah, I think I just wanna point that out, that it's quite a difficult, challenging exam for reasons that are outside of your study skillset.

[00:23:54] Betty: Well, and I know that I've, in all of the different groups that I've gone through, and we've had a whole host of exam questions, some examples.

[00:24:03] Bronwyn: Yeah.

[00:24:04] Betty: And, um, you'll be in this group and this group will swear black and blue that this is the answer. And then this group. They will swear that this answer is correct because of this and that and the other. And sometimes the supervisors themselves are still a little bit like, well, I think it could be this one. And I think that's right. It's really a tricky exam. And we've got to remember that. And you're right about the language and the constructs of the sentences. Sometimes it's hard to even identify. Hang on. Is this an intervention question or is this a communication question, which really changes the direction. of what you're, what you're looking for in, the correct answer. It's tricky,

[00:24:46] Bronwyn: It is a tricky exam. So, I mean, in answer to your questions about whether it means that you're not a competent or capable or compassionate, practitioner or able to do interventions, I don't think it does. If you, if you fail the National Psychology exam, you are still a compassionate, competent, capable professional.

It's, it's an exam, but it's not a measure of your whole worth as a psychologist.

[00:25:10] Betty: or even a measure of your whole worth as a person, isn't it?

[00:25:13] Bronwyn: Totally. Absolutely

[00:25:15] Betty: I and I think that was the most amazing thing, having, having, received the results on Friday and, and crying like a big baby.

[00:25:24] Bronwyn: I would cry.

[00:25:26] Betty: said, I haven't cried like that since my mother died, you know, but anyway, to go to work on Monday and to think. You know, I've got the, the scarlet letter on my chest and they won't let me near people now or, but to be just expected, no, no, go in, start your work. These, these are your clients for the day. These are the people you need to see. That kind of grounds you in that, okay, this exam, it is one step. It is one of the final steps towards registration, but it isn't something, it is required to be a general registered psych, but it's not something that stops you from doing good work where you are with the people who need you.

[00:26:06] Bronwyn: 100%.

So, Betty, it sounds like there's been a lot of determination required to bounce back from this to be able to say, look, I'm going to go sit it again. And I think that's a big deal. Like, you know, you've said already that you've learned a lot of lessons, which you will be taking with you and how you've, changed how you think about yourself.

Could you just tell us a bit more about how you're thinking about approaching the next national psychology exam sitting?

[00:26:39] Betty: you know one of the things, um, that my supervisor said to me was about managing the level of anxiety before you even enter the room?

[00:26:49] Bronwyn: Oh, that's a great point.

[00:26:51] Betty: And I think sometimes we get so caught up in what we're going to do and everything and what we need to be switched on for that we're not really checking in with ourselves around our level of anxiety. So for the last couple of days, I have been doing a bit of self care and just taking care of myself, sleeping when I'm tired and drinking when I need some hydration. And working out a study schedule that works for me. Now I know you've had Amanda Moses on and she's got a fabulous um, podcast with you about preparing for the NPE...

[00:27:25] Bronwyn: yep.

[00:27:25] Betty: But I think for those who have failed. You kind of need to clear your mind and start again. And I've really gone back to the basics. What is actually on the curriculum documents? Where am I getting that information from? Do I have the textbooks? Which training program worked for me? Which one didn't? And to not waste my time with that. To kind of put a stop to excuses. Like there's lots of excuses about You know, the first time, well I didn't have very good internet and the second time, well I was very anxious and you know, people that mean well, that's lovely, but the reality is the only person sitting the exam is us, and so we really to be in that mind state where I'm going to get on with this.

So I've looked at, I've looked at new programs, I've looked at a new study schedule, I've looked at articles, but I've also looked at, what, where were the strengths in my performance? What do I need to brush over as opposed to what do I not understand? And one of the good things is, is actually talking it through with people who've got a better knowledge in those areas until, until I can understand it like a child.

And that I think is much better, but I think the second part that we don't talk about often is actually reading the damn question and understanding what it's actually about because some of those languages, some of the word structures, sentence structures are really complex. And you read all of this extraneous information and you get down to the question and I know for me the problem is once I start reading the extraneous information, I'm building a story in my own head of where this is going and what this person needs so that I'm reading the question, I'm away with my thoughts rather than, hang on, this is actually a communication question and it's asking me, of these two people, who is the client? Not asking me intervention, so I've really spent a lot of time at looking at at what are these questions actually asking me.

[00:29:28] Bronwyn: I remember doing the exact same thing when I was preparing for my exam sitting, and I would remind myself the information you have is in the question. That is the only information you have. If they wanted to give you additional information to make a different choice, they would give you that. So with the information you have, what are they asking you to do? And then I'd say to myself, and think like the Board as you are reading the answers.

[00:29:51] Betty: Think like the board. I think should all get that tattooed on our arms when we sit the NPE.

[00:29:58] Bronwyn: Most depressing tattoo ever, but probably a good one.

[00:30:01] Betty: I know, because I know the number of times I've heard that as well. Ethical questions where you think, well, oh, I don't know, what would i?

[00:30:09] Bronwyn: Not I would do, what the board would do.

[00:30:10] Betty: Right, but that's what it comes back to, isn't it? What would the board do.

[00:30:14] Bronwyn: Yeah. Mm. Yeah.

This, this sounds very practical, Betty. I'm really, so does this mean that you have come out of, you've let go of this bag of shame and embarrassment and feelings of failure?

[00:30:30] Betty: Do you know, I still feel it, I still feel it when I revisit that story again, but that's not where I live, so I don't need to keep dragging it around with me, and I spoke to my supervisor and I said to him about, you know, I still feel really overwhelmed and the problem, the reality, the problem with working psychs, completing an internship, preparing for an exam, is when are we doing this study? I'm waking up at four in the morning or I'm doing it in the evening after I've come home from work. I'm stealing all my weekends away from my family and sitting like a squirrel resenting the fact that I'm studying all of this stuff again.

[00:31:11] Bronwyn: So true.

[00:31:12] Betty: we don't have, um, like when you're at uni, perhaps, doing undergraduate, we don't have weeks and weeks to prepare for this, where that's the only thing we get to do. We've got so many other things going on for us.

So I have put off doing the, the next MPE, but I've also taken a week's leave in the run up to the exam so that I'll have enough time to revise and revisit and sleep and eat and take care of myself as well so that I'm not going into the exam haggard, exhausted, tired. You know, I think maybe I disrespected the exam. I treated it as this is just something I've got to squeeze into this corner of my life and I can keep going because I thought my knowledge base was good enough... I don't know whether it's my knowledge base or I just can't read bloody questions properly. But I think by trying to squeeze it in and around life, it's not being given the proper time and effort that it needs.

So I'm going to try and take some time off and do some study then and see if that makes a change. Or if not, at least I can feel like, well, I've prepared to the very best of my ability and I'll just keep going.

[00:32:25] Bronwyn: No, I think that sounds really sensible. It sounds really lovely and compassionate towards yourself as well. You're giving yourself the best opportunity you can.

[00:32:35] Betty: And I think we just, I think we just don't do that. I think, I think failing the MPE really taught me a lot about, about identity and shame and what expectations we put on ourselves, not necessarily by other people, but by ourselves. And the idea that we need to be the best all the time. That we just need to be doing as very good as we can all the time.

And it's just not, it's just not a reality. I read a quote the other day that said, I don't think that I will ever reach a stage when I will say, this is what I believe and I'm finished. What I believe is alive and open to growth. So I think if we look at our careers that way, there's never going to be a time where we say, right, I've got all the knowledge I need, let me at them. We're always going to be open to growing and learning and hopefully being responsive to other people's experiences as well.

[00:33:34] Bronwyn: Yeah, totally. I always, I always think that the day that I stopped learning in psychology is the day that I will stop being a psychologist because I love learning. It's probably my biggest drive in life and I think that it would be awful just to have learned everything. And then I just sit in my chair and be like, okay, got it all. Like, yeah, I wouldn't like that.

[00:33:54] Betty: But even how effective would you be as a psychologist if, if you've got all the answers and,

[00:34:00] Bronwyn: I don't think so.

[00:34:01] Betty: you know, and, and people can't come to you and share something or share a new experience or share something that they've struggled with because you're like, let me fix you. I know the answer one.

[00:34:12] Bronwyn: I don't think, I don't think I'd be very effective. So I think that's a really great point. And I think, um, more so as well, the point that... I do wonder whether as a profession, like a lot of people, they are very high achieving to become psychologists. It's a, it's a very demanding profession. And I think as a profession, we expect a lot of each other. And I do wonder whether we need to have more open conversations about setbacks, like, like not passing the NPE and having that supportive culture around it. I don't know. What do you think?

[00:34:44] Betty: Well, and I think, what does that look like? What does that look like? Do we get study time when we work? Like, this step is essential for general registration. We want general registered psychs in our, in our workplaces to support up and coming provisionals, to support clinical students coming into our workplaces. To better support our clients and to better support the staff around us as well.

You know, so I kind of wonder where is the, where is the onus from our supervisors and our employers to assist us in this process? Because we are squeezing it in, we're squeezing it in at the end of the day and, and you know, I'm quite fortunate I don't have small children in my house, but I couldn't imagine working all day. Catching the train home, feeding children, doing laundry, squeezing in time for study, going to bed and doing it all over again the next day. I think those husbands and wives are heroes.

[00:35:40] Bronwyn: Absolutely. I think you're right as well. Like when... when I was doing my 5 plus 1 internship, my 4 plus 2 days a week. And then, It was funny, after I dropped down to four days a week, my colleagues were like, wow, we should do that too.

[00:35:59] Betty: [Laughter]

[00:35:59] Bronwyn: Because it was like, yeah, but they actually needed a day for admin, for case studies, for exam study.

Um, That it's so, it's, it's next to impossible or it's burnout territory to, to work that much and then squeezing things around it. It's so difficult. So I, I think there needs to be more support for these reality tasks that provisional psychologists need to complete to gain registration, but I'm not sure what that would look like. Maybe it would be flexible work hours. Maybe it would be adequate time to have study breaks.

[00:36:33] Betty: I know and isn't that the thing that what my workplace considers enough is different to what your workplace considers is enough. It would be different to what someone else considers is enough too. There's no, there's no commonality. We all agree that we need it and we all agree that we need more support for our 4 plus 2s. We've got so many brilliant people in our field from all walks of life, bringing wonderful experiences with them. We don't want to lose any of them. And this shouldn't be the tipping point either. So what does that support look like for them?

[00:37:07] Bronwyn: I guess at the very minimum, like having conversations like this, where we can talk openly about failure means that somebody who is a listener, I am, I am hoping that there is a listener who has failed the NPE, who has never met anyone who has failed the NPE and is stewing in that shame that they can listen to this and be like, I'm not alone. And I don't have to keep on carrying that bag of shame around with me. And there are things that I can do to lessen that load and go back and complete it.

[00:37:41] Betty: I think there is something a little bit brave and a little bit reckless saying to your work mates, no I didn't pass... But I'm still coming into work and I'm still competent and I'm still worthy and I'm still capable. I've got a bit more to learn, I acknowledge that, but when don't we? I would hate for anyone not to pass the NPE and think, well that's it, I've blown all my shots, I've blown all my chances and I need to go back to, you know, bricklaying or whatever their previous field was.

[00:38:13] Bronwyn: No, absolutely. So. So, Betty, I feel that we're coming to maybe the end of our conversation. Is there anything we haven't touched on that you really want to make sure that we get to?

[00:38:23] Betty: I suppose one of my takeaways would be that failing is not a reflection of your worth. It's not a reflection of your intelligence. It's not the sum total of who you are. That the language in the exam can be confusing but we can, we can always overcome things if we continue to work hard.

[00:38:42] Bronwyn: Yeah, no, I think that came across really clearly from you sharing your story as well. And is there any other wisdom or advice that you would give to provisional psychologists who have failed the exam?

[00:38:54] Betty: I would say don't look straight away to the next enrolment period. Because that's what we do, isn't it? Well, I failed one, I can enrol in the next period and off I go again.

I think stop, take a moment, check in with yourself. How are you travelling? How have you processed your failure? Can you separate that a failure of an exam? Can you separate that from your identity and what you're doing and what you're achieving and how far you've come? Can you look at that realistically first.

But also have a look. Are you getting close to burnout? Have you pushed yourself too hard? Are there some supports you need? Do you need a break from work? Do you need to go on a reduced workload? Like what does that look like for you to take care of yourself first? Make sure you seek out good people in our community, such as your supervisor or people like Bron who can give you good information about how do we regroup, how do we do this again, and then make up your mind at a time that suits you.

[00:39:57] Bronwyn: Betty, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your experience with listeners. I found it really valuable to listen to it and I think listeners will as well. I think it's really brave because, purely because we don't talk about it enough and I wish more of us would. So thank you for being a leader in sharing your experience with us. And I'm really glad to hear that that bag of shame has lessened for you. We all think that you're a very competent, capable psychologist and..

[00:40:28] Betty: Thanks. And and

[00:40:31] Bronwyn: we know that you will pass sometime in the future.

[00:40:34] Betty: That's right. And that's a certainty.

[00:40:36] Bronwyn: It is.

[00:40:37] Betty: Thank you Bron. Thanks for your time today.

[00:40:39] Bronwyn: No worries. My pleasure.

And listeners, thank you so much for listening. As I mentioned at the start, this episode was sponsored by the Australian Association of Psychologists.

And listeners, if there's something that you want us to talk about on the podcast, please are welcome to get in contact with me on socials. I'm available on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, or you can send me a good old email at mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com. The topics I like having on the podcast are things that we're not talking enough about in the profession or just challenges that you are facing and you would like to unpack it a bit more. So I'm interested to hear what you want to hear.

Thanks so much again and I hope you have a good one and catch you next time.