Episode 17- How to Sell with Non-Verbal Cues

@40:12 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

We're here as always five days a week to help you master sales, simplify pricing and deliver consistent premium level service.

What are we talking about today, Joseph?

@40:33 - Joseph Lucanie

Today, we're actually going in a little bit more about options and not all options and not all presentations are done verbally.

There's a lot of subconscious and there's a lot of nonverbal cues that we've learned that will really help set you apart when you do your next presentation.

@40:50 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Nonverbal. I love this topic. They say what? 70% of all communication is not in the words we're using.

@41:00 - Joseph Lucanie

Yeah. Can you imagine why I had such a hard time picking up and learn, learn people?

@41:04 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about the background of this and why it matters for electricians to pick up on this stuff.

@41:12 - Joseph Lucanie

So a lot of times, and this is any salesperson, but electricians in particular, because we tend to be pretty stubborn people and we think that we're often right when we may not always be.

But the thing is, is that when you go in, you have your own impression of what this customer is doing.

Right. But you really don't know how they're receiving the information until you're asking questions like, what do you think?

What does this mean to you? What are your thoughts on this? They'll give you a response, but sometimes they're going to give you the response they think you want to hear.

They're not giving you the response that they're really thinking because they may actually think, man, when's this guy going to shut up so I can buy this thing?

@41:54 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

So surface level and maybe misleading even responses. And what would be the danger in that? If we took. that for granted and said, well, they're obviously being honest with me.

That's truthful. Now I'm at XYZ place.

@42:07 - Joseph Lucanie

So what about this? Have we ever heard the expression? You know, Joe, you were the best salesperson I've ever seen.

And I really loved your presentation. I thought it was great. I just needed a little time to think this over with my wife and we'll get back to you.

@42:22 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

That one happens often, doesn't it?

@42:24 - Joseph Lucanie

To many people who are listening and watching live, I'm sure. Because it's soft in your mind. You're like, they think I'm great, man.

They really want, I'm 90% going to go with you. I just need to sleep on it for 24 hours.

I never make a decision. Same day. Right. But you leave that call thinking you've got a win in the books.

But really, unless you were mindful of what the customer was not saying, you won't know whether they were actually telling you the truth or not.

So I'd love to go into a little bit more of the, what should you be. looking for when the customer is saying these things.

@43:03 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Definitely. And there's a bit of a timing thing here. So I also want to plug our post self-diagnostics at this point, because if you're running several calls a day, there's no way you're going to be able to retain this information long enough to make an informed decision later on.

So please jump on in, tell us how we can use this stuff to our advantage.

@43:23 - Joseph Lucanie

Yeah. So if I just want to add onto what you said for a moment ago, cause you talked about the self-diagnostics, the reason why those are so freaking important is because it takes every single step of the process, like every single step of the process.

And it makes you look at it with a fine tooth comb, because there are some ways where you can not lie to yourself, but there are ways that you can soften your own ego blows to be like, well, I think they loved me.

I thought we got along great. We really hit it off. I'm asking for specific things. What did the customer literally say?

Where were you? What are you doing?

@43:59 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Superpower that people should really. really be taking advantage of. Absolutely. And just a point of reference there, because you said specificity, what comes to mind for me immediately is this one statement that I have adopted and used in my mental framework, which is that generalizations kill clarity.

@44:13 - Joseph Lucanie

Oh yeah.

@44:14 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

End of story. If you generalize and you can say over a call, that went great, you know that that is a foul.

You've got to stop. We've got to take better notes than that. Great is not a good description of how a call went.

@44:29 - Joseph Lucanie

It's the only three outcomes. Did you sell the call? And if you did, where's the check? Or I didn't sell the call.

Not a problem. Did they explain why? Or I couldn't get them to give me a yes or no today, but I am coming back in two weeks for a final conclusion at two o'clock.

All three of those, those are the only three acceptable ones. I will not accept any other option other than those three.

@44:55 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

I love that. I love that. And that sounds like a whole other podcast episode on its own. So back to the...

@45:00 - Joseph Lucanie

these cues. Okay. So the thing is, is there's one that I always like to talk about and that's when you're holding the presentation.

So we're gonna touch on that first, but then there's also other things that you can do when you're listening to things.

So the first one is a lot of times your customer may say that they're enthusiastic and say that they want to get it done, but they need to be emotionally invested in the solution.

If you're not emotionally invested in trying to figure it out and get it accomplished, there really isn't enough dissonance to get a sale.

So what, after I would give my presentation, I would always describe the top option. And then after I've described it and then revealed the price, I would then swipe right, load up the presentation that had prices, and I hand it to the customer and say, take a look, let me know how you'd like to proceed.

From there, if they held it with two hands, they didn't have to say anything. If they held it with two hands, it communicates that they genuinely are interested and they're contemplating which one they want.

If they hold it with one hand, it shows that they are interested, but there is an objection that's top of mind that they're maybe not willing to admit, or that there is one that's coming up in the very near future.

If they take it, they put it down and they look at it, that shows they are still 100% in the logic brain.

That is them physically putting it at arm's length distance and saying, you know what? Yeah, this is nice. And they're probably thinking, I wonder what my neighbour could do this for.

There's something that they have that they're not going to tell you. And that person would like to be say, what was that?

@46:38 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

I was saying not ready to move forward.

@46:40 - Joseph Lucanie

Oh yeah, not ready to move forward. But those are the kind of people that say, well, this is a lot to consider.

And you know, we never make a decision on the first time. So just email us over and we'll get back to you.

Right? Those are the three easy ones. First, what are your thoughts on that, Clay?

@46:56 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

A few things. A, it's an easy to read. Tell. It is a great physical cue that I believe anyone listening could actually begin to pay attention to and see some real result and real results from.

Correct. The other question that comes to mind is, for those people that aren't ready, is there still something that can be done today that isn't pushy that can help them to that decision?

And maybe that's a whole other episode that we go into as well. But at this point, is it a give up and bail out?

@47:31 - Joseph Lucanie

No, if actually there's one particular thing you can say that saves it.

@47:33 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Can I dive into that?

@47:34 - Joseph Lucanie

Yeah, let's do it. So let's say the customer has the presentation and they put it down. You can actually address it.

If they're not saying anything, they're like, yeah, we're gonna have to think about this, right? Or email us or we'll get back to you.

You can be like, well, Clay, I completely understand where you're coming from and I wanna help you. I genuinely do.

But can I ask you a question? Like, sure, what is it? Well, usually I'm kind of getting the impression that you don't...

like any of the options that I have. Like there's just nothing here that actually is solving your needs. That, am I pretty close to the mark?

Is it safe to say you hate the options I put together?

@48:09 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

No, there's options that solve our needs, but I'm not sure about the price.

@48:14 - Joseph Lucanie

And suddenly we now have the answer to what we need to solve. Okay, if you don't mind me asking, what particular option did you have in mind?

Tell me, if price wasn't an issue, which option particularly are you looking for?

@48:27 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

I liked the gold option.

@48:29 - Joseph Lucanie

And now you can see how you can start solving it. So what did you like about the gold option?

So we wouldn't have known this if we couldn't have picked up on the nonverbal cue, because they may say, you know, I really liked this.

I need some time to think about it. If they were holding it with two hands, that's more believable. But if you're standing there crossed arm, they're like, yeah, I'm gonna have to take some time to think about this.

You might have emailing again back to me. That's where you want to interject and let them know that, you know what?

I have a feeling that you really just don't. like these options at all. If that's the case, you can tell me.

I'm not going to be offended because at the end of the day, I just want to get your needs taken care of.

So can we take a step back and tell me where I went wrong on this? Absolutely. What do you think the doctor would say?

@49:14 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

And what I love is, and I always reference this when we're talking about these things, because I'm a visual learner, I have a visual referential system in my sensory.

So I'm always thinking of the picture that's here. And my vision is, as we've talked about many times, you're in the sand, the client's in the sand, and there's a line between you.

And when they've got the presentation down or the arms crossed, as you said, when you're getting those physical or nonverbal cues, as we're saying, it's recognizing the positioning, just like a chessboard and understanding that our best actions moving forward can only happen if we're standing on the same side of the line.

@49:56 - Joseph Lucanie

And the line is the problem, not me. Exactly. And speaking of. the line that's actually leads us to our subconscious thing.

Where you sit at the table and where the customer chooses to stand is very important. Now, remember we had a client who was saying, remember where the client kept him outside and he continuously just kept getting like stepped away and they would kept circling around him.

The best way that you can approach a problem is when, as you mentioned, the line assume that there's always a physical line drawn in front of you.

And wherever the customer is, you want to be shoulder to shoulder with them so that you can look at the problem together that initiates an emotional connection, a sense of team, sense of camaraderie.

Some people are naturally opposed to this. The engineers, the hyper analytical, the ones that are like, no time material, get away from me.

@50:51 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

This is what I want. Logic brain.

@50:55 - Joseph Lucanie

If you get side by side with someone and then you start to see the new shift away from you.

What is that telling you?

@51:03 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Resisting. They don't want this. They want to carry you on the other side of the line.

@51:08 - Joseph Lucanie

Exactly. So the thing that I always found worked was that when we would sit down with the customer, I would let the customer sit down first.

Sometimes I would even hold the chair for a little, and I would help push it in. Because I would guide them to where I wanted them to sit.

If you have a table of six chairs, two, two, and then two at the head, I would always go to the middle chair and I would hold it for the customer and I put them in and then the spouse would come by and they would automatically sit one way or the other.

If I put the person in the middle, the spouse is going to sit either the left or the right, which means all I have to do is sit in the other seat.

No matter what, we're always facing the same direction as a team. They're shoulder to shoulder. I'm shoulder to shoulder.

When customers actually intentionally sit them, when customers are actually themselves and they sit in opposition of each other, what is that telling us?

@52:07 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

They're undecided and they're still in opposition.

@52:11 - Joseph Lucanie

That happens in a lot of circumstances and people don't pick up on it enough. So let's say you have, I'm gonna use my own personal example.

Like I remember my wife wanted to get a generator. She wants an automatic. I want a portable, right? So let's say sake of argument, someone were to sit down and try to offer us one of those solutions.

Now she's gonna probably sit up. I love my wife, but she's probably gonna sit opposite to me because what she wants is to direct opposition to what I want.

We're at the table because we want a solution. But now if the salesperson turns to me, I'm going to be guiding the portable and therefore he's ignoring Melanie to his left.

With then he turns to Melanie and approaches her. Now he's alienating me. He does now. work and it will not work.

Because in addition to that, if you can't see their faces, how can you tell where their eyes are looking?

Where the eyes look is also a very good indicator of whether someone is interested or not. Would that be too hyper-focused if we wanted to dive into those as well?

@53:19 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

No, no. And again, I think, you know, the 30,000 foot view of this, we can all agree that someone's disengaged.

And if you put yourself in that position, you're with your significant other and you're feeling like this isn't the solution for you, are the couple going to be able to make a decision to buy today?

Mm-hmm. And the answer is a resounding no. If they're undecided and they do purchase, then they've got a marital battle on their hands.

So as a salesperson, you're absolutely screwed here. Correct. Right? And just, I can feel it, I can see it myself, right?

Being disengaged and just thinking, this isn't the solution I want. I am sitting over there. I am pulled away.

@54:00 - Joseph Lucanie

How do we defeat this? So there's a couple of things that you can do. Now there's so many other nonverbal things we can talk about, but if we're running out of time, totally fair.

So how do we defeat it? The first thing is, is to be not reactive, but you need to be preemptive.

You need to be able to respond, not react to a situation. So when the customer, when you want the customer to sit down, you want to be the first one at the table with a chair open.

You want to take control over the situation, because if you don't, you know you're allowing yourself to be blindsided.

Because if you can let them sit willy nilly, now you can't control the call because you can't monitor what they're thinking, right?

@54:45 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

And can we just add to this, like, sorry to interrupt.

@54:48 - Joseph Lucanie

By the kitchen table, if we didn't cover this already.

@54:51 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Why is this so important? And I want to add this phrase too, to give this a little more, just that 30,000 foot view.

@54:58 - Joseph Lucanie

We always say guys, their house, our clinic.

@55:01 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Mm-hmm. There's a blending element here. That is what you're saying, controlling the chair, controlling the seating position, but in their house where they've brought you now to the family room table or sorry, the kitchen table rather.

@55:16 - Joseph Lucanie

So I think it practically almost causes an aneurysm. Every time I hear a technician or a client say, well, I just got out of the van and I made my options, it's like dagger to the heart, it's like, man, like why you want to be in front of the customer.

You want them to visually see you being able to prepare presentations. Now there's two things to this and I'll try to make it as quick as I possibly can.

Do you, wherever you are, you want the customer to be able to see you make the presentation because nowadays, is it safe to say that some people might be coming up with numbers that aren't accurate or that aren't based in any sort of reality?

@55:56 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah, definitely. We do HVAC guys all the time.

@56:00 - Joseph Lucanie

I was gonna say, you know, it's like, oh, don't worry in January, we're gonna have a 35% markup. It's like, what?

Okay, cool. But the thing is, is that when you're in those circumstances you need to make sure that no matter what the customer knows your price came from somewhere.

So whether you have our pricing method, where you're going and you're physically calculating the hour, whether you've got a flat rate book and they physically see you having the book open, whether you're going on electronic, they see you.

That number is calculated. They know it's not fake. And plus, even if you're really fast at this, you're probably gonna do it anywhere between 15 and 30 minutes.

But if you go to the van and they don't see you anymore and you come back with prices they think are too high, what do they think just happened?

@56:53 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

They think you went and just made shit up. Exactly. Smoked a cigarette maybe.

@57:00 - Joseph Lucanie

Yeah. The problem is, is that if they can't see you and it's more than what they thought it was and they didn't see you calculate it, it's no longer real for them.

Yeah, that's your price, but what is the real price for us to do this? Maybe I need to get some other opinions on this.

Maybe I need to get some more bids. That's the language they're gonna do because they didn't see that it was real.

Yeah. So that's the first thing is never do it there. Second is why at the kitchen table? Why not on the couch?

The thing is, is that do people sit at the kitchen table that aren't invited there? Would a stranger ever walk into your home and just plop himself down?

@57:41 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Not at my house.

@57:43 - Joseph Lucanie

Not unless, not, yeah. I was gonna say, if a stranger walked in, they may not walk out. But the thing is, is that now what do we do?

Well, if they sit down at the kitchen table, this is exclusively a place for friends and family and trusted people.

You almost always know. that they're comfortable there. How many couples have their chair, their chair? You know, I sit here, she sits here, the kids sit here.

So you're getting them in their most comfortable spot, in the most lived in room of the house, and you're positioning yourself as a trusted friend.

@58:17 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Very important exercise.

@58:19 - Joseph Lucanie

Extremely, extremely.

@58:22 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

And it's a problem solving exercise too. So you're working with these people to go towards a solution to a problem that they want to overcome.

I can't think of any more valuable and importance in the entire sales process than this exact point.

@58:38 - Joseph Lucanie

You're right. At the end of the day, you need to be in front of the right person at the right time with the right price.

But let's say, even if you have all three things, if you're not in a position where they like, trust and respect you, even if they do buy from you, it'll be with more hesitation than it needed to.

You always need to present yourself as, I am the server. provider and my sole goal here is to make you and your family happier, safer, and have the best levels of customer service at your disposal.

Can you blame me for ever wanting to do that for you?

@59:13 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

No sir.

@59:14 - Joseph Lucanie

So then how would you like to proceed?

@59:17 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah, I love that. I know we got off the beaten track a bit. This one's going a bit longer.

@59:21 - Joseph Lucanie

How many other non-verbal cues did you want to touch on here? Okay, well there's a bunch.

@59:26 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Should we split this up is the question.

@59:28 - Joseph Lucanie

We're going to figure this out live right now. I'd say I can do some right now and we can always do some others later.

@59:35 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Is that fair? All right, let's touch on one more non-verbal because we just did a huge segment on the kitchen too we'll have to include as the second topic.

Okay. And we'll split it up and do a second non-verbal for the week.

@59:46 - Joseph Lucanie

There is a very specific non-verbal cue that I found has been very helpful because I struggled with, you know, those kind of cues and I learned this one particularly.

You can tell whether a customer has become very uncomfortable because what they're saying... is when they say that it's more than what they thought it was gonna be, there's a way to prove that they tell you the truth.

So what ends up happening is, I don't know if you can see this, but I'm gonna replicate it and I wanna see you pick up on it, right?

I'm gonna get the number and I'm gonna do this. Did you pick up on what I just did?

@1:00:20 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah, so for those that can't see, if you're just listening, there was some jaw movement, the lips changed a bit and then a swallow I saw as well.

@1:00:28 - Joseph Lucanie

So what happens is they clench the jaw without opening the mouth. So what happens is you'll see the back molars actually lift.

The first thought is that is a sign of tension. People tighten their jaws when they're tense. Then when you're also tense, you'll often find the mouth will get dry.

So they usually will not open, not lick their lips. So sometimes it's just a... And then from there, if it worked, they often have something to swallow.

All of this is... conscious, but what it's saying is, Oh shit, this is making me really uncomfortable. I was not prepared for this.

When you see your client doing that, what's happening is you have an engaged and interested person who has come to the reality that this solution is a lot more than what they were prepared to handle.

@1:01:21 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

How could that be used to our benefit?

@1:01:23 - Joseph Lucanie

Well, if we can recognize that something's happening, who's better? Should we wait for them or should we be the ones to address it?

@1:01:33 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

We should address it.

@1:01:35 - Joseph Lucanie

So we noticed that someone has something uncomfortable. You can even pause and be like, you know, play, can I speak plainly with you?

@1:01:42 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah, please do.

@1:01:44 - Joseph Lucanie

I got the feeling that when I showed you the number, it made you a little bit uncomfortable. Would I be off by saying that?

@1:01:50 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

No. And I want to point out at this point, Guy, just a micro delivery here. We're now engaged in the conversation that's in the client's head.

magical place to be. Go ahead.

@1:02:02 - Joseph Lucanie

So being able to say like, is it safe to say that, you know, something here is making you a little uncomfortable.

@1:02:09 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Would I be wrong by saying that? No.

@1:02:11 - Joseph Lucanie

So my goal here is to provide you with a five star experience. I don't ever want you feeling like there's a pressure or that there's anything that you have to do that you don't want to.

So I went, before I take a step back, can you tell me what made you feel uncomfortable?

@1:02:25 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Insert pricing, timing, delivery, quality, something.

@1:02:32 - Joseph Lucanie

And why it's so important we have to do this before is because if we don't, they will reply with a stall.

You know, Joe, I really appreciate this, but I need to get my wife involved. Joe, I really think you made great choices, but the price is a lot more than what I thought it was going to be.

I might have to get some estimates. You know, I actually forgot. This is great and I need to think about this.

@1:02:56 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

I never buy a...

@1:03:01 - Joseph Lucanie

They'll give you those things. But if you look for the cue and you can interject in between it, you can stop them from giving you that door in the face and you can actually save it in real time.

@1:03:12 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Don't handle objections, eliminate them.

@1:03:14 - Joseph Lucanie

A freaking man.

@1:03:16 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

I love that. Man, we've gone a pretty good length with this one. Clearly there's so much more that could be useful to these guys.

@1:03:23 - Joseph Lucanie

I wanna stop us there. Is that okay? Can we do a part two to this?

@1:03:27 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

No problem, I'm down. All right, part two is coming up next for you guys. Thank you for joining us.

I'm Clay Neumeier, my wonderful partner, Joseph, the sales bot, Luke Canny, right here in the flesh, guys. We're here five days a week to help you master sales, simplify pricing, and deliver premium level service.

You can catch us on the Electropreneur Facebook group or right here Monday to Friday. We'll see you again next time.

Take care. Cheers to your success. Bye-bye.