Replay - How to Sell with Non-Verbal Cues II

Transcript

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Welcome to Entrepreneur Secrets, the electric podcast.

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I'm your host, clay Neumeier, with my esteemed co-host, joseph Lucani, the sales bot Lucani.

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Throw that in there, guys.

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We're back today, live in the group, the Entrepreneur's Group, and we're here on the podcast with you to do part two of nonverbal cues, and we had a lot of good feedback on the part one, which launched on Friday, I believe last week.

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We put it out, but we did this, oh no, this one never actually went live in the group, so if no, friday we streamed it.

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I've confused myself.

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I think we streamed it's all good, we streamed it.

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Yeah, I just got off a plane.

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You guys, I'll give you that warning right now, um, but yeah, okay.

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So this is part two, and these non-verbal cues are just so important.

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I wanted to give a quick shout out to Brian in the group, who says you know what he's had a productive start to the week game planning, organic lead generation, thanks to the two of us.

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Thank you for that, and that's a huge compliment.

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And my post today was on organic lead gen and how important it is to get that machine nice and well oiled so it can run with you, without you, and get some autonomy in that business.

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Systemize this stuff so that when you put coins in that marketing machine, you're making the most of everyone.

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Joseph, okay, how we doing today I'm feeling great.

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I was gonna say, um, there's a lot of really cool stuff that I want to talk about, because I feel like it actually ties into what I posted about this morning.

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Now you have to learn, like.

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I realized that I've gone down a bunch of really weird paths, whether they're good or bad.

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But instead of feeling bad about them, I'm instead going to focus on using all those negative experiences to keep other people from making the same bad choices.

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So I'm able to now teach nonverbal cues that I had to learn just to keep alive.

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So it's great.

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And these are the kind of things that they take a lot of time, a lot of practice, right, especially if you're on your own, guys, and maybe you've heard Joseph's story's story.

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Maybe you know us a bit by now or maybe this is your first time, but a lot of the stuff we're talking about is over a decade of experience both joseph's decade and then mine as well, with different backgrounds.

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So the stuff we're bringing to you is not something you could really just read and and and learn that quickly.

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You get that accelerated approach anytime you're able to take the wisdom or experience of someone else and learn from that.

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So what do we need to know about these nonverbal cues and how can that set us apart?

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All right.

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The thing about part one was that's the things you're trying to do before the sale is made right.

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Part two is how can we prevent buyer's remorse?

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Because that was one of the biggest blows to the knees I ever got, where you would do everything right.

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So you thought you followed the process, you lined yourself up, you were successful, they gave you the deposit, and then you're driving back to the shop and then suddenly you get the call of oh, sorry, there's a family emergency.

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Oh, we need to hold off on this.

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Oh, can you send us a breakdown?

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And from experience, does that ever feel fun?

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No, not at all.

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And can I throw one nugget in there?

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Sure, I know the example you're using is very immediate, but buyer's remorse statistically happens within 72 hours of the purchase.

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So there's actually a bit of a journey in here.

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To continue.

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Correct.

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Yeah, no, I mean, it could be one of those things where you just get back to the office.

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It could be something where three days later they're like hey, I've been thinking about this.

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Do you mind sending me a breakdown on the job?

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I just want to make sure that it's the way I want it to be.

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Or some people might be like, oh, just for my own records, do you mind sending me a breakdown?

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Yeah, yeah, so it sounds that same part.

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So this, primarily, is something that you're going to do when you're selling to two different people.

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So either you know a spouse, two spouses or two partners doesn't matter, as long as there's two people that are both emotionally engaged in the situation.

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Now remember when we talked and we were sitting at the kitchen table, that we want to be side by side with someone.

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What was the main reason for that?

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We wanted to know that really we're on the same side of the line in partnership, looking towards a solution 100%, 100%.

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The thing is is that most of us, once we feel like we're already engaged with both, most of us, once we feel like we're already engaged with both we will tend on shifting our focus to one or the other.

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Whoever we feel is the primary person that's running this call Whether that means, let's say, it could be one of the partners says you know what?

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I'm the one who wants to get this done.

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So you start to shift and you start talking to one person and you've got to be aware of what's going on with the other, Because if you ever had a situation where you're talking to someone, they're both engaged and then just one person gets up and walks away, or they're like you know what, I'm paying attention, I'm just going to go, I got to check something quick.

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How many people walk through that yellow light?

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What do you think is being communicated from that?

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You're going to have to fill me in man, no worries.

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So the thing is is that if you get into a situation where someone gets up and walks away, they're trying to tell you one of two things it either means A they don't want to make a purchase, whether it's because they're confused or they're overwhelmed, and if they can be distant enough, they then can use the excuse of well, my husband wasn't available to listen to this, my wife wasn't available, my partner wasn't available.

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We need to discuss this later together.

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Becomes a wedge.

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It does so.

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It's a first intentional move.

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The second thing that's communicating is, if they were truly interested in what we had to say, would doing the dishes be very interesting?

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Would doing the laundry take precedence?

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No, no, laser focused on us.

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Exactly so.

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The thing is is that when you have someone that's willing to walk away, that's a real problem we have to address and it has to be answered almost immediately.

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So it depends on how they introduce it.

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The first is if someone comes to you and says oh, I'm just going to get up for a second, I'm listening, but I'm just going to go be over here, are they really going to be listening if they're on the other side of the room?

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No, not at all.

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No.

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So you'd say well, I think that's great and I can imagine that whatever you're doing is definitely going to take priority, like whatever it is that they're doing.

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I can understand why you'd want to get that done, but my greatest fear, or what I don't want to happen, is, if I go through this and I describe it and you don't have your full attention, you may have questions afterwards and the last thing I want you to do is have to feel like you had to take notes or that you weren't able to figure it out while I was here together.

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So why don't we figure this out together?

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Let's sit back down, let's go through it and I can review anything you want to know.

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Did you have any specific questions before we moved on.

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I like that.

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You're re-engaging them, them to say I understand, I know what you're trying to do, it's all right, I know you're trying to get the dishes done, and I can see that that would be important.

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But and then you can interject why you don't want them to walk away.

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You don't want to say something like I don't want you to go because I don't want to have to repeat myself it's.

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I don't want you to go because I'm afraid that if you don't have your full attention to this, there could be things that are missed Because, granted, I designed six very different options.

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It wouldn't be fair for you to have to remember all these things.

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So you can point it back out when someone does that, it's very hard for someone to walk away a second time.

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Can you imagine how awkward that would be?

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Yeah, you got to be some sort of dick, right.

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Yeah, when they're just like nah, I'm going to get them to walk away, and though that might happen, that's actually a separate thing we could talk about.

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The second thing about bi-referred remorse and non-verbal cues is have you ever noticed that in different spousal relationships, someone usually takes primary and someone usually takes secondary?

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I usually claim that in mine, but there's an argument in house over here.

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I know I get it.

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I was going to say the thing is, it doesn't matter who's primary and who's secondary, because I consider both people equal members of the family.

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So the thing that we have to remember though is, if one person isn't being served emotionally, they will then give in to the other person.

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The problem is is that if you have one person who's super sold and you have one that's not really engaged, once the big ticket numbers come out, they may say listen, if you want to get this done, then that's what we're going to do, but do you think they're going to be just as cool with the price when you walk out of the room?

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No, you're tying this back into remorse now.

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Exactly, because that's the thing.

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A lot of times, when it's happening, these non-verbals always come back to the buyer's remorse.

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So when you have someone who says you go to give them a price and you're working through it with them and they say something like well, I guess that's the one we're going to have to do, you guess, if you were really certain, would it be a guess?

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No, it wouldn't be.

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So someone, when they're trying to shift over to let someone else do something, they'll often change where they're looking and where they're facing.

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So let's say you're on the same line, I'm looking at the solution and two people looking at the solutions with me.

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You'll see the phone come out or you'll see someone looking up or you'll see them turning side to side.

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When you ask them a question, you can actually tell whether they're focused or not by asking them things like so what are your thoughts on that?

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Do you feel like that's necessary?

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Do you have anything to add to this?

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Do you feel like this is even important?

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You can bring them back in, but the way you can tell whether it's nonverbal or not is where their eyes are placed when they're actually responding to you.

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Because if I've noticed when someone is looking down, like I could be looking right at the screen right now, but if you asked me a question I wasn't fully engaged.

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I'm going to look top left, because that means that I'm looking usually for something internal and I'm trying to find the answer within myself.

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If someone's looking for the answer in themselves, were they actually paying attention?

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Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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If someone's looking for the answer in themselves, were they actually paying attention?

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Yeah, yeah, definitely, and we talked a bit about this actually in rss the other day.

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up is actually associated with a visual uh referential system, lead reference system whereas side to side could be actually auditory and downward tends to be kinetic.

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So depending on the style of learning that they prefer style of communicating or remembering a lead referential system, they'll look different ways.

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But that doesn't necessarily mean distracted.

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So I love that you tied that in In the moment in response.

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It's a great thing when you cause that.

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It's also something that you can recognize and speak to.

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If you saw someone look up and then you know their lead reference system is visual, then you could actually this is expert level now say something like oh well, this is where I liked when I saw this, or exactly, you know, I like the way this looks, those being, of course, uh, visually cued statements.

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You're right, that's actually it Now.

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In addition, now we're going to shift a little bit away from buyer's remorse and then go into something that a lot of contractors hate, and that comes down to where are you doing your presentation?

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So many people will say I'm going to do it in the van.

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Why?

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Why are we doing in the van?

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Usually it's because they say I don't want the customer looking over my shoulder while I'm writing everything, but that itself is actually the nonverbal cue that we're going to talk about.

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Perfect.

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So let's say that you are getting ready to design your solutions and you're at the kitchen table, right, and you have all your notes spread out and your iPad and you're working.

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You're tipping away and the customer comes behind you and they look over.

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What is it do you think they're looking for?

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The numbers.

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That's what they're looking for Primarily.

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What that's saying is there's no possible way that they could be reading in a glance what the overall solution is going to be.

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It's not possible.

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If you have a whole list of six options and you're just working them out and you've got all your numbers in front of you, what could they really be looking for?

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What that's telling you is that they believe that the answer lies in the price, and when they think the answer lies in the price, that's all they're going to be focused on at the end think the answer lies in the price.

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That's all they're going to be focused on at the end.

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So, instead of you actually leaning in and trying to cover up your numbers which a lot of people do like, give you another verbal visual again.

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I'm writing my solutions.

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I have my iPad in front of me and I see the customer come behind me.

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I may actually shift in, and what does that tell the customer?

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If they see me trying to cover up my numbers?

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You don't want them to see the numbers, and is that dangerous in the customer's mind when all they want to do is look at the numbers?

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You might as well be in the van hiding stuff.

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You might as well be in the van.

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That's why, instead, when you see them looking behind you, you can actually interject and be like hey, I'm just letting you know I've got about 15 minutes while I'm working on.

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Just ask, just be like is there anything you want to know before we keep going with it.

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Because if you don't address it and you do it subconsciously where you try to lean forward, they will pick up on that and when they do, you are doing the exact same thing as you just being in the van.

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It probably even works, because in the van they assume that you're hiding something.

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But if you're leaning forward or you're like trying to make it seem like you don't want to be bothered, they will most certainly think that you're hiding something.

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Make sense.

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It does, man it does, so what's the right thing to do?

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So the right thing to do when you have that situation is I always liked to have a single place of where you're positioning yourself, so it's hard to do it on the camera, but let's say that everything's in front of you.

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I always had one dominant left arm.

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I would always lean forward and I would write with my right arm.

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That way, I could always keep my eyes to what is going on in my peripheral.

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So, in other words, I would position myself closer to this way.

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So I knew that if the customer was going to try to see my numbers, they would have to come this way, which meant that I could always turn towards them and address them once again as people, rather than leaning forward and trying to keep them off my numbers.

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So when they're coming to me, instead now I'm turning to them and saying ah, this is the emotion, this is where the solution is, rather than this is where the solution is.

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So it's a simple measure of placing yourself to say I know where they're going to come if they were going to look, and I'm prepared for it.

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Yeah, so you're preparing for an engagement instead of preparing for an awkward huddle over your plate like it's a prison meal.

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Oh my God, that's a good reference.

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It just came to me.

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It just came to me yeah, it's all that stuff.

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So at the end of the day, we're always trying to solve an emotional concern and the customers are not always going to tell us exactly what's on their mind.

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So when we start to pick up on these little cues, we realize where they're at in the process.

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So now let's do a quick little recap.

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So, going forward, if someone were to come by and they just get up and they said that I need to do, I'm listening, but I'm just going to go do something we're recognizing, they're emotionally disengaging, that's what it is.

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They may say I'm listening, I'm going to pay attention, but they're not and there's a reason for that.

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And if we don't find that reason, we will not be successful on this call.

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In addition, when they come around, we're always engaging and saying what is the emotional connection, where is it at?

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So everything I'm going to always bring back to always says how can you better bond with someone and what can you do to recognize what they're really thinking?

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I love that.

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I love that you use the word reason, big capital, r.

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I mean there's so many powerful things, but of all of this it's so important to recognize the misconception even between objection and reason and how we tend to disconnect the two and we feel like an objection is a missile that we need to dodge and and solve before it blows up somewhere where it's just trying to find the reason behind it, trying to find the root cause of what's in the way here.

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If this is the right thing, truly, and you know it's the right thing, and I know it's the right thing, and what's the reason that we don't do it?

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I agree.

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I would say another way of looking at that, in a similar parallel, is did you go door to door or did they call you?

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They've obviously called you for something, but so many people feel awkward when they have someone else in their home.

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I mean, I know I would.

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If I don't know you and you're a stranger, I'm going to probably act a little bit differently than if I was a friend.

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So knowing these little cues to pick up on allow you to better bond with someone, not just so you can sell them on something Sell isn't the right word, it's.

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I'm simply assisting them in a way that they may not realize that they need at this point, and that's why these nonverbals are so important.

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Yeah, love it.

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Okay, do we have any other ones for the show today, or is that it?

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I would say these are the top three that came to mind, because once again, we're just running right off of it, but I would say I definitely think we could probably come with a part three if we needed to.

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I mean, each of these really could be drilled down into and spend 15, 20 minutes on all of them, and, of course, giving you guys exercise actionable items, a task to do from that and make the most of it.

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Repetition is the father of learning, can't say it enough.

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Another one I've used over and over repetitively, pun intended learn, do teach, learn, do teach.

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If this is the first time you've heard this stuff, guys, now go do it, go pay attention to it and then teach it to your helper, teach it to your partner, teach it to other people you work with, and that will stick, it will cement within your being.

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So that's some of the best advice I can give.

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Honestly, what do we have for an action item on this stuff?

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So the minimum action item I would say like the bare minimum is only doing one of three.

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The minimum action item is do not lean forward and do not turn off your iPad when the customer comes to you, because the thing is is that if they believe that the number is where everything is and you're looking to hide said number, that is going to be a big red flag in their opinion.

00:19:03.188 --> 00:19:09.897
So if you were going to do nothing other than those three things, just do that and you'll still find you'll have a better relationship with people.

00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:11.102
I love that.

00:19:11.102 --> 00:19:19.786
And just quick, what would you say to someone that is in the closed position mistakenly and doesn't realize it until they're getting someone over the shoulder?

00:19:19.786 --> 00:19:26.076
What's the quick pivot out of this, then, and out of that awkwardness that causes you to want to lean over and crowd the plate?

00:19:26.679 --> 00:19:37.320
So, just so I understand the question correctly, do you mean like you like knee jerk, lean in, and then you're saying what do I do to like get out of that, or how do you prevent yourself from ever leaning in?

00:19:37.580 --> 00:19:47.636
yeah, I think we talked about prevention because you said, hey, I want to put myself in a position to welcome that engagement but say someone's gone too far already, and now they're.

00:19:47.636 --> 00:19:56.077
They're recalling the lesson and saying, oh darn, I'm about to do this thing and I'm feeling that reaction of hey, hey, I want to close this off so they can't see it.

00:19:56.077 --> 00:19:58.705
Is there something you would pivot and say maybe?

00:19:59.855 --> 00:20:23.336
That's actually a good question, I would say in that circumstance, if you could not avoid and you found yourself in that situation, the best thing to do is just to be open about it with the customer and say you can at least be like hey, sorry, I didn't expect to see you here, I was really just dialed into my numbers, forgive me for turning away from you and then go and say hey, would you like to sit down and?

00:20:23.376 --> 00:20:23.517
join me.

00:20:23.517 --> 00:20:28.161
I'd love to have you included in this Love that, allowing them to come back in and say, like you know, I'm sorry, I just need your reaction.

00:20:28.161 --> 00:20:30.182
I wasn't expecting to see you here, come join me.

00:20:30.182 --> 00:20:31.904
I'd be happy to have your opinion on what we're doing.

00:20:32.286 --> 00:20:36.190
Yeah, yeah and taking this back to the 30,000 foot view.

00:20:36.190 --> 00:20:38.051
I mean, this stuff is simple.

00:20:38.051 --> 00:20:45.720
Right, we're trying to stay on the same side of the line, remaining a partner in this with the homeowner and working towards a solution.

00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:49.607
So anytime we crowd, block, say what are you doing?

00:20:49.607 --> 00:20:53.603
Any of that kind of stuff puts us back opposite sides of the problem.

00:20:54.284 --> 00:20:54.565
Mm-hmm.

00:20:54.964 --> 00:20:58.532
That fair to say and any of that kind of stuff puts us back opposite sides of the problem.

00:20:58.532 --> 00:21:06.502
That, fair to say, yeah, it's no different than when the customer is standing behind you at the panel and the typical contractor says like I'm just going to keep quiet until the guy walks away.

00:21:06.502 --> 00:21:09.022
It's like, yeah, that's a nonverbal cue.

00:21:09.022 --> 00:21:11.434
You know, what we're doing is the exact opposite.

00:21:11.434 --> 00:21:19.707
We're saying I recognize that you want to be involved and don't know how to properly ask, but your body language is communicating that you do.

00:21:19.707 --> 00:21:36.440
So I'm going to be setting up with as many opportunities to feel involved as I possibly can and as a result of those actions, we will have a better relationship at the end and when I want to ask for the business, I'll be able to do so from the position of someone you like trust and respect.

00:21:37.142 --> 00:21:38.265
Love it, love it, love it, love it.

00:21:38.265 --> 00:21:40.058
Okay, all-star action and we'll finish up.

00:21:41.503 --> 00:21:42.246
All-star action.

00:21:42.246 --> 00:22:02.496
The all-star action is probably going to be a little bit harder because I would say I would want you to listen to part one and part two multiple times, because these cues are not easy to master and they're not easy to pick up on, but the first step you have to do is to be able to recognize that they exist.

00:22:02.496 --> 00:22:09.357
So part one is to say I need you to listen to episode one and two continuously, Keep mindful of those episodes.

00:22:09.357 --> 00:22:18.280
Then part two, or step two, is recognize and start writing down the cues and saying all right, when they look up, what does that say?

00:22:18.280 --> 00:22:20.707
When they look side to side, what does that say?

00:22:20.707 --> 00:22:26.528
When they look down, when they come behind me, when they're at the panel, what is that saying?

00:22:27.576 --> 00:22:31.627
From there, I'd say the next step is start to practice.

00:22:31.627 --> 00:22:50.125
I would literally have someone like whether it's your spouse or friend or coworker or anyone that you work with and have them actually include that in the role play when, if you're sitting down at the table just fake table have someone come behind you, practice saying hey, sorry, I didn't see you there, Please pull up a chair.

00:22:50.125 --> 00:22:54.063
I'd love to have you involved and just make sure it comes off as natural as possible.

00:22:54.063 --> 00:23:00.137
That is going to separate the all-stars from the typical person who wants to succeed in this Role.

00:23:00.137 --> 00:23:03.084
Play, master, practice repeat.

00:23:03.885 --> 00:23:04.928
I love that, I love that.

00:23:04.928 --> 00:23:07.117
And that word master comes up again.

00:23:07.117 --> 00:23:28.736
Right, we are trying to master communication, master partnership, and when you're able to take this stuff and use it for you, then you can ultimately and effectively lead that relationship to a successful outcome where there is no remorse, where you have an open communication in that relationship so that you can control the aftermath.

00:23:28.736 --> 00:23:34.909
And when I say that again, it's it's their house, our clinic, right?

00:23:34.909 --> 00:23:40.008
And this all ties back to that organic process, guys, having that well-oiled machine.

00:23:40.008 --> 00:23:56.864
We just love this stuff and we want you to have that so that it's scalable, saleable, something that you can walk away from, no matter if you need to take a week, two, three or a month maybe it's two months in your future, three or a month, maybe it's two months in your future a business that you can step back from.

00:23:56.864 --> 00:24:09.663
That represents all the autonomy and all the processes that you've worked yes, I said processes, the canadian way, the accent up here a okay, guys, we're here five days a week to help you master sales, simplify pricing and deliver premium level service.

00:24:09.962 --> 00:24:10.625
I'm clay newmeyer.

00:24:10.625 --> 00:24:11.227
This is my host.

00:24:11.227 --> 00:24:13.220
Joseph, thank you for joining us again.

00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:17.500
Can't wait to see you guys again tomorrow so much great seeing you guys take care.

00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:18.384
Bye.

Replay - How to Sell with Non-Verbal Cues II

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