Rich Girl Roundup: Splitting the Bill with Friends Without Getting Screwed

Katie: Welcome back, Rich Girls and Boys, to the Rich Girl Roundup weekly discussion of The Money with Katie Show. I'm your host, Katie Gatti Tassin, and every Monday morning we're gonna dig into an interesting money discussion. But before we do, here's a quick message from our sponsors. 

Before we get into it this week, this week's upcoming main episode is about the ideal save rate, and it's definitely one of my nerdier expeditions, in the sense that we are trying to figure out what the optimal amount of money to save is where you're probably going to regret falling short versus where you're going to regret doing too much, because yes, contrary to FI/RE popular belief, it is possible to save too much. Okay, onto the Roundup. Henah, how you doing? 

Henah: I'm good. How are you? 

Katie: I'm good. I was looking at some data this morning for our newsletter audience and trying to figure out interesting ways to make that content better. So that's kind of been on my radar today. What about you? 

Henah: I've been unpacking, but I know that you're also moving, so we've been trying to get ahead on content, and so we are just straddling what, like five or six episodes right now? 

Katie: Yes. I really can't keep it all straight, but we're trying to make sure they're all still really good and high quality. So hopefully nobody notices a difference.

Henah: I could share this week's question, which lit a fire in me; I'm very excited to talk about it. This week's question came from Taylor M. “What is the socially acceptable approach for splitting costs with friends—think meals, nights out, weekend getaways? Are we just doing even splits, or is everyone paying for their own share? I generally prefer to pay my own portion of things rather than one person paying, and we all equally split costs to Venmo back and forth regardless of the actual expense breakdown. But it seems that that is falling out of fashion. I tend to not order drinks or desserts when dining out, so I do always feel like I'm overpaying. Should I be more proactive when the bills come, or do I need to just get over it and plan for always overpaying in group settings, like a group outing tax?” Which is such a clever name. And then she closes the question by saying, “Most of the time, of course, the time spent with friends is worth the extra money, but it can add up and start to affect things I say yes to. Do I just need a mindset shift?” 

So I feel like this is the spiciest question because I have been in this exact situation so many times. I imagine you have too, because you're smiling. 

Katie: I'm just smiling because I think this is such a perfect example of just how abundantly reasonable our listeners are, but they're like “maybe I should make it a group outing tax.” Oh my gosh. I just love, I love Rich Girl Nation because they're so rational. So that's really why I'm smiling. But I guess, tell me more. 

Henah: Especially when I was a lower earner, this happened to me all the time, and I felt really uncomfortable and I didn't always feel like it was fair. I've kind of figured out my approach. I think it's a winner. You can tell me what you think. 

Katie: Hit me. I'm so interested to hear what your approach. 

Henah: So I basically have two approaches, where if I'm getting food with friends that I kind of know them well enough or I've gone out with them often enough to kind of know their patterns. So the first is with friends who I know historically do get more drinks or food at dinner or they're higher earners and don't really mind dropping a lot on bottle service or whatever, I'm either up-front about it to them and to the waiter for a separate check, or I see it as this group outing tax, like Taylor called it. But on occasion I've had to leave early and so I just Venmo over just my part of the bill and tax and tip. 

Katie: Oh you dog, you sneaky dog. 

Henah: I don't do it on purpose. I'm not like, “Oh, I have to leave,” and then I just sneak out and do this. 

Katie: “I have to go to the bathroom…” Climbs out the window. 

Henah: “Hey, where'd she go? Her car's gone.” But I think it's something that you could occasionally try to do too if you're in this situation, and then just approach those friends at a later date with a larger conversation of why this isn't something you can feasibly do all the time. 

Katie: This is interesting, because I was on a trip recently where there was like 12 of us and we ended up going out to dinner and lunch pretty much every day. So it was a lot. 

Henah: Which trip was this? 

Katie: London and Scotland. 

Henah: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. 

Katie: And it was a blast, and fortunately we had booked the flights on points. We would've spent north of five grand on flights alone for this trip because it was so expensive just to get over there in June. And so that really helped cut back on the amount of money we were spending. So I didn't feel as, oh my gosh, I really need to be on top of this for this one; I was a little okay with, yeah okay, we're gonna end up paying more because there's so many of us and whatever. But it was kind of a mess for the waiter. You know when you sit down and you can just tell they're looking at you and they're like, dammit, this is gonna be so annoying. 

Henah: When they get there, they're like, so one check, or separate? 

Katie: Yeah, because there's some couples that are paying together and then there's some people that are single that are there that are paying solo. So I remember sitting there for the entirety of one meal just like, I don't drink so I'm just watching everybody order rounds and rounds of drinks and I'm calculating in my head, okay, I'm gonna pay for my food like three times over if we just split this, whatever. One person picked up the entire bill and then we all Venmoed them for our portion and like our listener said, I knew that we were paying way more than for just what we ate. 

Henah: Do you remember what the bill was and what your portion ended up being? 

Katie: Oh my gosh. We were at Dishoom, which is a very famous Indian restaurant in London. It was incredible, and the food was so good that I almost didn't mind because I was like, whatever. But I think my entree alone and the food that I ate probably was like 30 bucks, probably Thomas's was like 60, and I think our split was like $200. 

Henah: Ooh, okay. 

Katie: It was a lot. The first time it happened with that group I just, we paid the equal split and I was like, it's fine. The second time, though, when we were in that situation, I actually got up to go to the bathroom.

Henah: So you do it too? 

Katie: No. In a different way. No, I approached the waitress when we were away from the table and I said, “Hey, is it possible to charge per person here, or is it possible to just ring us up separately? We ordered a lot less.” Because I do feel bad asking the waiter or waitress for that. I hate being that person, but I also don't like being the one who awkwardly, in the middle of the meal, stops the conversation and is like, “Hey, so is it cool if we try to split this?” It's awkward no matter how you spin it. But to me, talking to the person that's gonna be handling the bill away from the table has been the least awkward bad solution, in my experience. So that's kind of how I've handled it in the past, if I care enough to interfere. 

Henah: Yeah. So it seems like you and I, and maybe also this listener, is thinking also in bigger groups, where I think the bigger the group is, the more unruly this process can be. I agree that sometimes it makes sense to just go straight to the waitress. Do you ever approach the conversation with them at any point if you feel like these are people you might travel with again or that you're like close friends with? 

Katie: Ooh, it's hard. It's hard because it really depends on how well I know them. I wouldn't think twice about it with my close friends at all. It would not bother me at all to be like, “Hey guys, do you mind if we try to pay for what we actually ordered?” if we're in a big group. When we went to Tulum, there was four of us, which isn't a big group, granted, but they were my closest friends. So sometimes I would pay for everybody, like just treat everybody because I wanted to. Other times I'd be like, “Hey, let's try to order separately and pay separately.” 

But in this particular instance, it was my husband's close friends and their wives, and so I didn't wanna be the stick in the mud. That was the kind of epitome of a money blogger being like, “Um, would it be possible for us to split this evenly?” But when you're with like 12 dudes and they're all getting four drinks per person at dinner, I don't mind doing that once, but I don't wanna subsidize everyone's alcohol for four days in a row. 

Henah: A hundred percent. Which I think is really fair.

Katie: Except when you go out with parents… 

Henah: Your parents don't count.

Katie: That I feel is the exception, where you're like, I'm getting the nicest drink, I am getting apps and desserts. 

Henah: When I go out with my parents, I'm getting two entrees so I can save some for tomorrow. 

Katie: You're loading up for the week; the restaurant is doing your meal prep. 

Henah: Literally. I'm like, can I get the to-go container separated each day? On the other side of the spectrum, I was gonna say the other approach I have with people who are more budget conscious and especially when I was a lower earner, I either try to eat lightly with them so that neither one of us feels uncomfortable, or I'm up front about splitting per person, or I try to treat, because I do think that a lot of times, oh, I can get this round and someone else will get the next round, and it just doesn't feel worth it to go back and forth over $20, $30 meals sometimes. Is there a different approach for people you know are more on a budget, or do you just kind of approach everybody the same way? 

Katie: That's a really good question, and I think it's telling that you're conscious of that, where you kind of know your friends' habits and you try to make them feel comfortable. Do you just ask them, hey, how do you wanna handle the bill? Or do you up front say hey, so are you cool to split based on what we order? What would you actually say when you're sitting down to kind of address it up front? 

Henah: I think I've said both. I think I've said, depending on the situation and depending on my level of friendship with them. Sometimes I'm just like, hey, I got this. Get whatever. It's totally fine, and then you can get the next round, or I've been like, hey, I just paid off this vacation, do you mind if we just split this? And it's never been an issue, at least not to my face. No one has ever been like “Henah, the cheapo” to me. But… 

Katie: There's a group text where they're all talking about you behind your back about how cheap…just kidding. 

Henah: You know, in middle school there was a joke club called the “I Hate Henah Club,” and to this day… 

Katie: Where do I sign? I'm just kidding. 

Henah: To this day it literally makes me feel so bad when I think about it. 

Katie: Oh no. You're in good company, because in high school Lady Gaga, there was a Facebook group called “Stefani Germanotta, You Will Never Be Famous” that her high school bullies made about her, and look at her now. 

Henah: I thought you were gonna say “You're in good company because I too had an ‘I Hate Katie Gatti Club,’” but no, Lady Gaga.

Katie: Well, hey, I think you'd rather be in good company with Lady Gaga than Katie Gaga any day of the week. 

Henah: True. But there is an existing “I Hate Katie Club” because we get all the emails and I have to read them. 

Katie: That's true. Yeah, our newsletter inbox. I do wanna say that as I have earned more money, I actually really like paying for my friends when we do things, within reason. I think where that trip was different and where I treat travel differently is the size of the group, where I'm probably not gonna be interested in picking up the tab for 12 people in the same way that I would for two. And to that point, everyone on that trip, as far as I know, makes pretty good money. So there were actually instances where one person was paying for the meal and then that was kind of it. They wouldn't ask for anyone to pay them back. That actually happened a few times. That was a weird situation. I'm not in those positions very often, but it was just the frequency, I think. And it was interesting to me that there were actually instances where someone was like, “I got this one,” and I was like “Really? Okay, cool, that's like 500 bucks, but whatever.” 

Henah: I have a clarifying question. This is genuinely to be curious. Do you think it ever comes across as patronizing when you say, “This one's on me; don't worry about paying me back.” And it is sort of like a much larger bill; it's not someone's birthday, it's not something where you're like, well, I coordinated this trip to Tulum so I'm gonna cover everybody. But if you were just out, do you think someone else would be like, oh she makes the big bucks so she's gonna cover us all? 

Katie: I don't think it comes across…I mean, you'd have to ask them if they've ever felt that way. 

Henah: Just send me the emails of those 12 people. 

Katie: I've never gotten the sense that anyone feels that way, probably because it's not all the time. But I think it's just the fact that to me, there's something about friendship that's about sharing a burden to the extent that you can bear it. So it's a much smaller burden for me in some instances to pay for a lunch out or a dinner out, especially if I'm the one asking them to go, than for a friend that's maybe between jobs or is in school right now or whatever the circumstances. And so I have no doubt that eventually when the tables are turned and I'm the one that's between jobs or if I decide to go back to school…I always tell Thomas I'm gonna go to law school and become a lawyer. And he is like, “Please don't.” But if the tables were turned and they were the one that had the steady income and I wasn't, that they would cover me and it wouldn't be a thing. I definitely can see what you're saying. I could see how it could come across the way but I've never gotten the sense that anyone feels patronized. 

Henah: Yeah, my very best friend, she was someone who made a lot more money before I did and then she would treat me, and then when Covid hit and she lost all her income, I would treat her.

Katie: Oh, that's nice. 

Henah: It is just very much like we're not holding each other's receipts and being like, this is how much you owe me later.

Katie: Yeah. You're not running a tab. Exactly. You're not counting behind the scenes. 

Henah: I think actually Farnoosh maybe has talked about this where it's like, everybody comes together for breaking bread and it's like this social event, but everyone is also coming with very different money mindsets. So I was just curious if, do you think it will come across that way to anybody? Not that I think it is, and for the record, if anybody wants to pay for me, I won't think of it that way. 

Katie: Well, fortunately, Henah, I have very few friends, so whenever anyone's like, “How do you deal with having to go to all the bachelorette parties?”, I'm like, I've never been to a bachelorette party. 

Henah: Aw. Someone invite her. 

Katie: I don't have a problem with having to travel for those because I just don't. I have few, I have very few close friends, and so I think people know my intentions and that it would go both ways. 

Henah: I think so. I just think it's worth a conversation because our listeners probably run the gamut of how they feel about money and being treated. 

Katie: Oh, and by the way, my attitude has certainly shifted. First of all, I used to just never go out to eat because I didn't wanna spend the money on it. 

Henah: What'd you do? You would steal lunch from like leftover Southwest meetings? 

Katie: Oh yeah, but I would have coworkers, right, that would go out to lunch multiple times a week and I would either bring my food in a Tupperware and eat my packed lunch with them at the table, or I would just not go because I was so laser focused on saving money. So I definitely think that it's almost impossible to have this conversation in a vacuum without that broader context of just, where are you on your financial journey and how often is this coming up? But I do think that the part about “it adds up” is very, very valid, and that's where I think the point that can maybe be made, if you're still trying to have some fun but you are in more of a, I'll call it like a grind phase with money, where you're not feeling like you can spend as freely. The thing to emphasize to people, I think, is that “My restaurant budget is this, and it doesn't go as far if I'm having to evenly split. That's gonna translate to fewer outings every month and I really want to be there with you guys, but I can't afford to split everything equally.”

So I've definitely been in those shoes for more time than I haven't been in those shoes, I would say. And it's only been in the last year or two that I felt comfortable being like, no, it's okay. I actually don't go out to eat that much. I don't do things like that very often. So when I do, I feel comfortable either treating or going along with the equal split thing just to not ruffle feathers. 

Henah: Well, that actually relates well to my final point, which is, we also default as going out to eat as a way to socialize. And I don't think that we have to do that. I think there are lower cost or cheaper alternatives that have just as much bonding time. And if food is a thing that really excites you, I think you could do a potluck or you could make dinner together in your home or you could just go for a walk. If you're seeing your friends on a very normal cadence, that will free up your budget to go bigger at the next outing. You know what I mean? 

Katie: For sure. Frequency is kind of the key here, aside from income and goals, is just how often are we talking? If this is twice a weekend, yeah, you probably shouldn't be splitting everything equally. That is gonna add up. But if you're like me and you only do things with your friends once every two months, your quarterly outing with other humans, then it probably isn't really gonna make that big of a difference. 

Henah: I just feel like this question feels universally applicable no matter who you are. So I was excited to see it come in. 

Katie: Yeah, same. All right. Well, that's all for this week's Rich Girl Roundup. We'll see you on Wednesday to talk about nailing down what the ideal save rate is, and why. 

Henah: Sexy. 

Katie: Bye. 

Henah: Bye.