Letting Go of Control with Arno Ilic | EP058

Welcome, everybody, welcome to a call for love. And today I have a special guest because I have known this guest since 2007. And you'll never believe where we met. We met on top of Machu Picchu, or we met in Peru. And we were both hiking there on an expedition. And we were both solo travelers in a group that it was organized. So it's been quite a while correct or no?

Yes, it has was trying to think when it was that we were up there, but yeah, 2007. Okay.

Yep. 2007 and are no is here today, because he has a new book that's come out. But before that, I'd like to just share with you a little bit about him. So Arno has been on a journey of self discovery, as many of you are, who are listening to a call for love. And he's been on this journey for as long as he can remember. In that process, he has discovered many things that have worked in his life and others that have not certainly can relate or no book is designed to question and evaluate many things held is true. And simultaneously wonder why life is not working. The entire premise is based on absolute certainty that you control all aspects of your life. The youth of today and yesteryear seem to go through much anxiety, mainly centered around whether they are good enough, whether they look okay, whether they will fit in and so on. For those in the mid range of life. It is about relationships, finances, and how to raise their children. And his book covers this and so much more, that I'm sure you will be curious to learn more about. So welcome to a call for love or no.

Thank you.

So your book the world, according to AI have did you pick indeed?

Well, it was basically a way of the way that I view the world. So hence the initials AI. But then also, when you look at things, the way that artificial intelligence is developing, I realized that you know what, as we grow up, we're kinda like artificial intelligence, we see things a particular way, or we have information that's input into us through various people and situations. And then we make decisions and modifications based on that input.

That's really a great parallel. Yeah. And I mean, every time I almost open my email, I hear and see AI this AI that. So it's very relevant for this time.

Yes. And actually, a friend of mine, who has the book, called me and said, You know what, I never put those two things together. But you know, now that I've read this book, it makes perfect sense.

Well, are no elec is exactly AI and AI is like, all mainstream now. So exactly. That's really clever. For your book, I have received a copy. And I have been I really love how it's in chapters that are short and accessible. And they feel like thought

chunks. Yes. It's kind of that way. I had various people ask me questions about various aspects of life. And I thought, You know what, maybe I should write some of these things down. And that's kind of how the book started. And then I started to add things into it as we went along. And lo and behold, I locked in, oh, my God, I got a book here. It was kind of more than that way. But the book is also designed in such a way that you don't have to read it from beginning to end. You can that's why I have the Table of Contents there is so that you can just kind of browse to that and say no, I think I want to read about this today, or read about politics or whatever.

It's interesting because sometimes I like to read a book from front to back. Me too. I was going through the book like that, but then some days I would just pick it up and kind of fan through the pages. Yep. Then wherever, you know, it opened. I felt like that was my message for the day. Ah, and I really enjoyed reading it like that, actually. Well,

you know, this is a beauty about this thing is that there's no wrong way of reading as there is no wrong way or right way, I guess throughout life, it's just it is, right. And however you decide that you're going to walk through life, that's perfect for you and may not work for somebody else. But you know, and this kind of addresses that in a way, it sort of says, well, here's what happened to me. But it may not happen to you that way. But you have to sort of discover it on your own. That's like you said earlier that I've been on this journeys, since for a while for a long time. And you know, at the end of it, you go, Oh, I'm right back where I started. The only thing is, is now I know that this has been here all along. But you have to go through the journey to find that out. Right? Absolutely.

Which makes me think when you're saying this, I picked a quote from the book. And it was in the chapter, the origin of fear. 156, and I pulled this quote, when you live in the moment, you will start feeling aliveness, nothing ever happens outside of the now.

So true. And you know what, that was my experience. When we're trekking through the Andes. There was nothing else to think about other than the step, the next step. And I would stop and and look around and enjoy the scenery. And but all of that happened in that moment. I wasn't thinking about anything else. I wasn't thinking about my flight home, or how I got here. Any of that.

Yeah, I know. It's it's something that we've all heard over and over again, especially if you're in any kind of self reflective practice. But it's something that we forget. Yes.

Yeah. There are so many things that you do out of habit. And then and then you stop and think about it for a second, oh, I, you know, I shouldn't do this or, or, you know, you get heated up about something that happens. And then something in the back of your mind reminds you, it's not important. And even if you think it's important, probably not, especially if you look at it two to three years, or months later, you know, you Oh, that wasn't all that big a deal.

Is there a Shakespeare quote? Much to do about nothing? Yes.

Yes. Yes. So apt.

Brilliant. Yeah. I also feel that the quote, nothing ever happens outside of the now. Yes, nothing. I could also add there, nothing ever happens outside of ourselves is from inside. Absolutely

true. Yep. I'll use that for my next book.

That's a lot of ideas. I don't think you're doing well.

Thank you. Well, that

really brings to mind the other chapter you have about enlightenment, and you know, in my circle blur really trying to become self actualized. Yes. And what's your interpretation of becoming self actualized, or enlightened? self

actualized is, is a little bit different from my interpretation of enlightenment. For instance, self actualization actually looks inside it. Right? It's the self enlightenment, on the other hand, is something that we tend to want to use as a tool to say, I'm better than you because I'm enlightened. And how do I get to be enlightened faster? You know, those are all kinds of things that the mind is fooling you into, you know that. Well wait till I become enlightened and then, you know, and I remember years ago, I was reading this book, and they asked this monk they said, What's it feel like? How were things before you were enlightened? And he picks up his rucksack and starts walking. And then he puts it back down. And so what was it like after enlightenment, picks up his rucksack again it continues walking, because we're human be gangs. And people tend to forget that or, or want to be something different. And so therefore, they reached out to enlightenment thinking that their life was going to be different. Well, it's not going to be different if you aren't different. You know, and nobody's going to come and bless your or do whatever and say, you are now enlightened. Back in the 70s, somebody mentioned enlightenment, and he says, yeah, just means lighten up. And to some degree, that's quite accurate. You know, it's like, don't take yourself too seriously. Don't take this whole journey too seriously, you will get there regardless. Because, you know, we, as human beings grow up in a particular way, the same way as trees, too. And all the trees aren't the same. And they don't all grow the same. Somebody asked one time, he said, If I meditate for eight hours a day, will I really get enlightened faster? No, you know, it's like it he take a little seedling and you dump water on it and you pour fertilizer on it, you probably kill the tree, not gonna make it grow any faster. Right. And, and we're all different sizes to some of us are short, when we're finished growing, and some of us are very tall. It is what it is paid. And, and we have to accept that. can't just say, oh, jeez, I wish I was a little taller. You know, I wanted to be a basketball player. Well, you know what? Life has got a different path for you. That's all.

It's so true. I, in your book, you said that. All who seek enlightenment, eventually discover that it has been there all along?

Yes. Yeah. And I remember when I was an Indian, and I ran across this gentleman who was actually from Sweden, but he had lived most of his life in India, teaching Tai Chi up and down the coast. And we were meeting him that one day, and it was a dog that followed him. And he introduced me to the dog. He says, this is Morty. I picked him up somewhere along the trail, and he's been following me ever since. And he says he's enlightened. He just doesn't know it. I said, yeah, just like us humans.

Exactly. That's, that's the exact part that I read that I really enjoyed it. To me. Yeah, yeah.

So you don't need to worry about hurrying up and getting enlightened. You just need to peel away the layers that are preventing you from seeing it.

Yeah, I love the quote by Michelangelo. I chipped away at the marble until the angel appeared. Yes.

I liked that one, too. Yeah. It's so true, right? There's so many things that we look at. And if we change, only change our view, we could see so much different than what it is.

Yeah. And I do believe that I loved also, I went to New York and I there was a Broadway play. At heart and in the play, one of the actors said, don't believe everything you think just because it passes through our mind? Doesn't mean it's true. And absolutely believe a lot of the things we think are illusions. Well,

somebody pointed out to me years ago, that if you have a really strong belief, you're walking through the forest, and you have this really strong belief that there's a bear tailing you doesn't matter how strong the belief is, is certainly a bear by issue. You know, mostly the answer's no. Doesn't matter what you believe. Right? And

same physical responses actually sweat and the adrenaline rush and everything just for thinking. Yeah,

yeah, exactly. And that's how we manifest our own fears and things right. We look into the future and imagine what things will be as opposed to staying right here right now. And just carrying on as you go.

catastrophizing

it's a good word. I like that. I think we all have

exactly sometimes I can sense myself going down that rabbit hole. Yep. I actually kind of get down there and my neighbor says the dark side, but of anxiety and fear. And then I have to say, oh, Mike, look where my mind went when I wasn't paying attention to it. Ah, yeah. Down this, this, this rabbit hole. And so I do find that we really have to pull back and notice.

Yeah, and and, you know, I had a lot of people ask me about awareness, you know, what will awareness do for me? Well stop you from banging into a door or walls to start with, you know, and I mean, I know, even now when I meditate sometimes I am thinking, Oh my God, I've been thinking a lot. I've gone right down the rabbit hole. But that's awareness. Right? And then it brings you back to Okay, well, let's start breathing again. And

it's really about noticing, because, you know, I'll hear somebody say, Well, I don't know why I did it. And you know, as a school teacher, I would hear it from children, but as an adult, really, if we don't know why we're doing something,

maybe we should stop noticing? Yes. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I, there's a segment in the book where I wrote about how we as children were very observant about everything, right, we, this is how we formulate how we're going to walk and how we're going to talk and do all that stuff. And, and it's like that when you or I get into a new house. So we're driving along, and we become mindful of everything that surrounds us, so that we can get to the house after about the fourth or 20 of time. But whatever time I'm a slow learner, so it'll take some money. But then all of a sudden, you're driving, and lo and behold, you're at home, you have no idea anymore of everything that you passed, you didn't pass all of that. Because your mind is become mine full, as opposed to mind less. Right? The less you have in your mind, the more observant I think you'd become a thinks. And we take those things for granted. I remember when I was managing people in a manufacturing environment. And I would talk to the supervisor and I would say what do you see? Ma, I see people working. Okay, but you see whether they're working efficiently or not, you know, just see that he's taking offloading something on one end of the dock and bringing it to the other end, when all he had to do was go right across from where it was offloading, you know, geez, you know, you see too much. Well, that's what you're supposed to do, right? You're supposed to make life easier for people not not just accept the way that they are.

It's so true. And I feel I liked, especially in the introduction, I shared with everyone on a call for love that. Life is a journey. And you know, we're always evolving. We're always evolving, and you shared in one of your chapters on control. I really loved this. You said we all change. And what we find critically important today is of little consequence tomorrow. Right? And I believe that what you're saying is, you had asked that individual did they notice and they hadn't but I think for many, it's a journey to become more aware.

Yes. Oh, yeah. 100%. I mean, otherwise, what's the point of being here? You know, when you really think about it, it's like, if you're not learning, you're probably dead. I got a humorous thing from a guy at the gym this morning. He was saying, you know, if you do nothing, the problem was doing nothing, is there's no end point. Okay. Whereas if we're doing something we can always say, well, there's an end to this. Yeah, that was pretty cool.

Yeah, well, I, I know I'm going to speak for myself here. And my, my son, my youngest son will will stand by this. I have changed so much in my life. And in your book, you had said that. You remember hearing someone complain that the wife had changed from when they first went out? You said in it, I should hope so. We're always evolving, right? Exactly.

Yeah. But you know this, this is part of the problem. Not that we have, it's sort of like, you know, you see a box of cereal and it has these funny little pictures with bear little bears and stuff on it or whatever. And so you buy it, you buy the cereal, and then you become disappointed because the stuff inside doesn't look anything like the outside, right? Well, you can eat the box if you like, but the real good stuff is inside. And it's the same with us.

Yeah, I really think it's, I don't think I want to live that I'm not evolving or changing or growing. And I think change. You know, some people could say change for the worse, but I would only think with new knowledge and new wisdom and new practices, that you would evolve as a more mindful, aware, compassionate, kind, individual, that's my hope.

Well, when I look at my own life, I was a little terror when I was a kid. And everything's about me. And, you know, regardless of what my parents would tell me that I should do, if it didn't align with what I wanted, I wasn't doing. And I also used to have quite a, an opinion on people on welfare. And then, you know, as I started learning more, and seeing people who were in that state, I realized that, you know, they would probably prefer not to be there either, either. But due to circumstances beyond their control, there they are, perhaps we should have a little bit more compassion for them. You know, and, and that's kind of how I started my thinking process, I used to very conservative and individual and things were this way. And if they're not that way, then you're wrong, I'm not wrong. And, you know, gradually sort of move away from that, and you start seeing things from a completely different perspective. And I would say that you must have a close heart, if you can't see beyond, you know, what you perceive. And that's part of as well, this whole notion, I think, we talked about this before, about the ability of people letting go, you know, and it doesn't mean that you have to walk around in a white robe without money begging for food, it basically means you got to be able to let go your beliefs, you got to be able to let go have your grievances, you know, there, you have to be able to let go of a lot of things. And unfortunately, some of our institutions are full of people who weren't able to let things go, you know, whether it is mentally or they get into physical altercations over something that may or may not be that big a deal?

Well, yes. And I feel sometimes if we are having grievances from the past, it's the judgments we put on them. And judgment comes from the egoic mind. Absolutely not the truth. Yes. No ball builds, until before you know it. Your emotions are running, running rapid, and you're just going down that slippery slope again.

Well, yeah, actually, I wrote a chapter about judgment. And, you know, the Bible is pretty clear about you, that you shouldn't judge unless you want to be judged. And the reality is, is we all tend to do that we it's a matter of catching ourselves doing it and then saying, Okay, I don't this is dumb. But, you know, you go down, walk down the street and say, Oh, my God, look at the way they're dressed, you know, or why have you got so many tattoos all over the you know, these are all kinds of judgments that you we have to look past to see the human being behind all that right. I remember. So my daughter was went to university with this lady who had a tattoo all upper arm like just I think roses or something. And so I asked my daughter I said, why she got all that on her arm and says, Well, she was burnt badly burned in the fire one time and so her entire Her arm is scarred. So she thought she'd put something beautiful overtop of that. And I thought, wow, that is so cool. You know, and never thought about it that way, right that the people express themselves. So tattoos and that kind of saying, yeah. Well, that's

so great, because we're going to end our conversation here with the insight that the more we can ask questions, yes. pre conceived judgment, the greater we open up our minds to greater awareness. Yeah.

There's there's a difference between asking a question in such a way that it there is judgment to it. Right. Well, why are you doing it that way? I mean, who does that? Right, versus Can you tell me a bit about what it is that you're doing? I'm kind of curious as to what brings you to this decision. Right. And that's a little bit more open minded. And the thing is, is I'm genuinely interested, why we're doing this, as opposed to, well, why are you doing that? I have a better way. Maybe not stating it, but implying it in the question, right?

Yeah, so interesting. Well, I love asking questions that I love diving deep. And that's why we connected on in the Andes, because we've had some great discussions and over the years in touch, too. So I congratulate you on your book. And I really do thank you for being here on a call for love. I will include your website and the details for your book in the show notes. But I want to thank you for joining a call for love.

Thank you. And I want to thank you all. So for all the good work that you do. You know, I kind of checked in on your blog from time to time. You know, you're you're pretty amazing. Because, you know, giving up a teaching position to do what you do to get your message across to a lot more people is amazing, you know, and I really appreciate you and all you do. Thank you.

Thank you. No, thank you. I really appreciate that. And we will definitely keep in touch and yes, we will. A call for love listeners. You can find all the details in the show notes and wishing you great love and great peace. And thank you.

Thank you

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