Learn How to Double The Production of Your Team to Double Your Practice

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All right tribe Welcome to align your practice with Dr. Cliff and Dr. Joe brought to you by align life where we want to give you the tools to find and create your aligned life. Today, we're going to be talking about liberators and tyrants and challenges and know it alls. And so, I'm super excited, Joe. So what's your thoughts on this?

Yeah, I love this conversation that we started last podcast on multipliers and diminishers, about how our behavior styles can either multiply the impact we make in our practice in our business, or literally diminish the impact the the productivity that we have requiring us to spend more money, more time more stress, or have been a multiplier we to x our outcomes, our productivity, our profits. So it's really an exciting conversation, we talked a little bit about the different styles of behaviors last time, Cliff, but you said now we're gonna really break down which I'm really excited about.

Yeah, it's really important. I think a lot of times we will surface warm things versus really diving deep. And I really want to dive deep on this. Because I think as we're leading our offices, as we're leading our families, as we're leading ourselves, it's really important to go in and like I know, you've had over 20 years of practice, I've had over 20 years of practice. And so just to see how that what's the end in mind, that's what my thought process was on it.

Yeah, and I think, you know, part of this process, when we go through this, it's an a self awareness process, where you going to learn styles that you have, this is some of most of this contents coming out of the book, the multipliers, if you are an academic, and you'd like to read, but we're going to be looking at behavioral styles. And basically, it's around leadership to create more productivity for yourself and your team. That's really the essence of what we're talking about. We're going to go over behavior styles, in a sense, somewhat personality type traits and behavior styles of how you operate as a leader. And there's no, you know, 100%, one way or the other, you're going to see some of your tendencies on the positive or the multiplying type, personality style. And then you're gonna see some of the things, the actions and behaviors and attitudes and the way you process inside of your office with some diminishing type quality. So it's not your one or the other. But what we really want you to do is spend time while we're on unpacking this, to kind of see what behaviors that you have, they're really strong and multiplying the impact with your team. And some of the things that you're doing that are diminishing, and just the self awareness alone is going to help you you grow as a leader.

Yeah, I love it. So I

so let's start.

Yeah, would you say? Yes.

Okay, so the first multiplier, personnel and personality behavior style is called the liberator. And a liberator is a style where you create an intense environment, in a work environment, not tense, but intense environment that demands people's best performance, what they do the Liberator style, will create stability and people who loudly them to free free thinking, act boldly and focus on their work. So it really kind of opens up their creative side, their confidence, their ability to put a stake in the ground, or what they believe how to accomplish a process or cast. So liberating is really what their what their liberators do. So that's the one side.

Yeah, so I think on that, like, I really like liberating people is so important to create that safe, like creative environment, and the opposite of that is tyrants. And so what tyrants do is they will create a tense environment that doesn't allow people to think and perform their jobs. So they get stressed out, it crushes their ability to do that. And then also, then we'll create anxiety. So people are going to be more cautious and afraid to speak up. And so really, we want to have an environment where they can speak their opinion, because when people speak their opinion, they're going to have buy in, because it's their opinion. So you know, the one thing that friend says if they have chime in that buy in, and so when they get to voice their opinion, then they'll buy into the ideas and also you'll get their genius that they have on the topic, so that's tiring. Yeah.

So so I can share myself that I have more of a tyrant type style. When I get paranoid or have fear. My leadership goes more to tyrant where I put people and anxiety I push really hard. I wouldn't think being a liberator would be smart. until I really studied it in detail that it's not that when your liberator, anything goes free love, it's all good. Don't worry about anything. That's not really what it is. Because it's still an intense environment where a tyrant creates a tense environment, think of the difference there. Intense versus tense. A tyrant is creating like anxiety, such a tense, when the boss walks in, and everyone like the hair stands up in the back of your neck, because the boss is there, a liberator still demands your best performance. So it's not where we're thrown away, or KPIs thrown away or goals on to it. That's not the mindset, that's what I would have thought cliff, before I got learned on the topic is that a liberators like free for all doesn't really matter. So liberated, it just creates an environment that's intense, but it's liberating for you to creatively accomplish what you need to accomplish. So you in a sense on uncover the intelligence and the creativity in the in the team. So I like that. So let me go over the three practices, we'll go over the three practices of liberators, and give me your feedback on these cliff, the first one would be create the space for people to perform. So the space entails you as a leader to listen more and talk less. And that creates space, because if you being the owner of the clinic, and your thoughts are respected, and listened to, and all they hear your thoughts non stop, you're going to denounce the ability for them to step up to the plate for you to step back and not have to run everything. So whether it be your office manager, even your CIA's office meetings, you want to talk less and listen more. So basically, overall, it's just leveling the space. So all voices are heard, where you're actually listening, and seeing that the introvert on your team is not speaking as much. And you would say, Michelle, tell me your thoughts on this topic, what do you think would be best? Where you're bringing all voices into the conversation?

Joe? Yeah, like on that one, like, it limits your creativity, because it's all about what's in your head versus like, using all these great people around you and using their genius and their thought process because they're gonna have different ideas that you don't even think of, but now it's like, Just do it. Like if you're not using that if you're not than that liberators, basically, your do this, do this do this. It's not allowing them to actually express and get that genius.

And when the when the lead or the owner is always talking, the people that want to contribute are saying, I don't know, if she's gonna like this, or he's gonna like this, they start judging their thoughts, because they have very little time to speak. What I realize happens for those doctors that don't want to just a job, but they want a business, what they realize if they're that tyrant, and the way they manage, let's say, meetings, guess what happens the week that they can't be at the meeting, because they're on vacation. No one can be creative. No one can process no one can bring an idea. No one knows what to do, we can't even have the meeting because he or she's not here, you got to be the quieter one in the meeting and allow the team to nurture the outcomes of what you need. So if you're on vacation in Europe for a week or a month, the office meetings, the training, the management continues, I think that for me is a big eye opener. So the next one is demand only the best work from people. I did love in the book multipliers they talked about. I forgot the leader was a politician who got some paper written about a topic. And he asked, Is this your best work? No, it's not. So they took back the paper. And then they wrote it again. And they put it on the desk. And then they grabbed the paper and said, Now is this your best work? And they said, Well, let me let me have it back. And then they went and worked on again. Then he said, dropped it off a third time and said, Is this your best work? He said, Yes. So he said, Okay, now I'll read it. They didn't know we didn't read it the first two times. He just asked, is it your best work? That's it. That was great.

He had the thing. And he was like, yeah, he's like, Oh, cool. He had it for a period of time. And then the guy came back and he goes, Great. Is this your best work? And he goes, No. And so he says, Here work on it. Yep. It's such a it's right.

He held it for a couple of days. That's great. And never. Yeah. So as a liberator, to demand the best work from people, even though you're giving them the space to make it happen. That's the beauty of it. So you're going to uphold standards, you're going to insist on people's best work. So if you have KPIs and you're you have some stretch goals, and you're stating this is what's going to happen, or you have, let's say, outcomes or projects that have to be completed, and you allow them how to create their own milestones to get the job done. You're doing you're launching a new campaign in the Office, you know what has to the outcome and a date and you're holding people to that line, but you're being more of a liberator in the process of getting it done. The last one is create fast learning cycles, I love that concept. You share your mistakes, so it's safe for others to fail, just give that ability to let people know that you're human as well. And you've been through journeys, and a lot of your successes were by lessons learned in the failures, I think that's beautiful, and insist on learning from mistakes. I like rapid improvement process, or rapid learning cycles is another style, even when, let's say one of your team members is not producing. And let's say it's no the tech, the X ray tech, and they're not doing the job as fast, you got to put them on a rapid improvement plan and sit down with them and say, we go through rapid improvement plan, you're going to master this process, the next two weeks, here's some videos, you're going to be training with Michelle. And it's a rapid learning cycle or rapid improvement plan, whatever you want to call it, but then you level up and then you reassess, you're still liberating them in that space. But you got to learn fast inside of this.

Yeah, I always like I think the first time I heard it was oh, Larry marks and actually where he talks about paying, you know, when you're learning, you can pay tuition. But if you're repeating the learning, you're paying taxes on that learning, and so happy to pay the tuition, I don't want to pay taxes, though. That's good. I like that. And then I think the other space like in those fast learning cycles, I always tell my team like, we're going to be winner learn, like, we just want to be learning from our mistakes. So So those are the three practices, I'd love to talk about how to become a multiplier, like if this is one of those challenging places, if you feel like you're lean more on that tyrant side, I think becoming a multiplier, there's a couple places to do it. I think one of the biggest places I see with tyrants is in meetings, and they'll take up a lot of the oxygen in the room. So other people don't have a voice. And that my favorite book on that too, is like, leaders eat last. So I would always speak at the end of my meetings after I heard everybody else's opinions, and I would process everything. And then I would share versus sometimes I shared on the front end of that it wouldn't allow for creativity. And then my team would rely on me with coming up with all the ideas. So when I would call them out and they would, and they would share their opinion, their voices were heard. And then I would have that time to assess. I don't know what your thoughts are on that, Joe?

Yeah, similar. I look at my management style. And I'd say I have a lot of Liberator qualities. But I become a tyrant, like I mentioned, in times of fear, or we're stretched too thin, or some paranoia, like we have in business, that I feel like I have to step in and control and push. And when you do that, too often, like you said at the beginning of the meeting, you change the whole context and energy of the meeting. So even if you have to put your foot down in a tyrant type mindset, it's not that you can never do that. It's being self aware that that's becoming more and more of your management style that you're literally suppressing is people's ability to create creativity and self self thought to create outcomes, which make them better leaders, because a true leader creates great leaders, right? That's what we're all after. So just be conscious of it, like I am now of my ability to be in more of a tyrant versus deliberate liberator. And I like what Cliff said, you know, you wait till the end, and maybe I can still have that same conversation I used to, but not front of nine people in the meeting, it may be meaningful conversation, more respectfully one on one sometimes right and changing some of your style. So those of you listening, think about your behaviors that you engage in that are more like a liberator, and then some of the behaviors that you have that are more like a tyrant and seeing what you can do to start migrating more towards a liberated when you need to,

I think just recognizing, like, when is it appropriate to hold that space? Because there's some times where you know, you need to make those hard decisions. And it's not this isn't up for debate, which is kind of your next one, like there's label your opinions. So you sometimes they're soft opinions, and sometimes there's hard opinions like, for me, like I was an upper cervical straight chiropractor. Like, I don't even know if those terms are still used. But like, that was like I was hard on that. It wasn't like I didn't need to have a conversation about are we going to bring this in? Are we gonna bring that in? I was like, Nope, this is my hard line. So I didn't need to have a debate about that. There's other things Oh, patient care. Should we do this? Should we add this? And so recognizing like, what are those hard lines of like? This is where we were staying here.

Yeah. What's your willing to compromise or not? And you set those expectations up front so you don't have to be a tyrant. Everyone knows that. These are the expectations. Yeah, I agree with that.

Yeah, when you were speaking I think as a liberator, I think being a liberator, one of the most important things is to have clarity on where you're headed and have clear expectations and agreements, then that's how we get there. And, you know, I think I said this last time, but my wife, we always joke, but I'm like, you can tell me what to do or how to do it, but not both. Yeah, like, and we'll get into that later, too. So labeling your opinions. And then the other one is, again, on top of that, just sharing your mistakes. And that can be personal. Because I think so many people depends on when they started to come into your company or into your life, like they see you in a different light versus like when I first started, I made so many more mistakes. And then as I got more mature in business, I made bigger mistakes, but not as many.

And so you brought up label your opinions as a concept, let's break that down just for a second. I love the concept when you're in a meeting, or you're having a discussion with one of your team members. And you kind of have an opinion, but it's not really hard lined, you may not have any experience in that particular concept that you're dealing with at that current moment. But you have an opinion, it's just soft. So you can literally say I have a soft opinion on that. But you don't take it for what it is. But I think XYZ versus you having an experience, you have scar tissue, you've been down the different roads, you know, the outcome, that you may have a firm opinion, a strong opinion, that's not going to be shaken because for 20 years, you've you've noticed x. So you may say I've really hard opinion on this. And my viewpoint is x. And that gives us a the the availability of the team members to know even though you're the owner, they're going to think every opinion is a hard opinion. And you want to allow them to understand some are soft, and they don't have to go in your direction, they don't have to migrate the thoughts to follow yours. And that's a really good skill of a liberator is to have like, could be 60 70% of opinions or soft opinions where you're just, hey, I'll just share, and maybe 30 40% are strong opinions. Where when you don't clarify, as an owner, your staff thinks everything's a hard opinion, I would assume,

right? Yeah. Like this is my way or the highway, I think it depends like that safety and that structure you build into when you're onboarding a team member, or how you run your meetings.

And they'll let the other concepts of the mistake, share your mistakes, but also make space for mistakes, that it have safety and mistakes, like go ahead and make as many mistakes as you need in order to create the outcome. Because, you know, a great outcome starts with a lot of initial mistakes, and we learn and we grow and we mature, fail forward fast, make the mistakes, don't make the same one twice is really the concept but enjoy the journey of learning through mistakes as you try to create an outcome. So that's all skills of a liberator to give people that empowerment. And what that does clip from my viewpoint, is allows owners and leaders to have to step in and fix the problems a lot less time, less of your insight, less of your energy, right? Overall, when a liberator steps up to the plate, because you're allowing the intelligence or creativity, the energy of the team to nurture itself, where you're there just as the guy not as the captain of the ship holding on to trying to run everything.

Yeah, you're the captain of the ship, but you're not like doing the you know, like, doing all the things at the same time.

Yeah. Navigation and everything else. Yeah.

You know, it allows you to stay in your lane and do your job. And that's where that clarity is so crucial. All right, I agree. That was liberators entire. And so then the next one we'll go to is challengers and notables. And I would love to shorten these up. But these next two are going to be long, because there's just a lot of information to cover, like cover, so I don't want to rush through it. I don't want to get through it. I want to get to it so that you can kind of have a better understanding. So we can go deep rather than wide.

So you want to try to figure out are you more of a challenge or more of a know it all? And, you know, go back to our example is that Office meeting is an easy way to die like this. But this isn't just office meetings itself. It's how you're relating your strategy sessions, how you greet people in the morning how you do at adversity throughout the day. It's it's and like Cliff said, the last podcast. These also come up in your home, you with your family, with your kids, with your parents with your siblings is are you more of a challenge or no at all? So I'll go over a challenger. Challenger is the way you define opportunities in a way that motivates people in a goal of stretching them beyond their existing knowledge base like what they know right now. So you're just presenting something in a way that motivates people to stretch stem cells and execute optimal outcomes. So that's really what a challenge does. It's challenging you to stretch yourself and accomplish more than you think you can. And that's like awesome leadership.

Yeah, I love that. And I think challengers, they're kind of that out of the box thinker. Those new ideas as fresh ideas come up in those challenging moments versus like, following status quo and doing things the way that they have been done. And always coming up with that optimal solution and not compromising I think so many times we compromise because we just we don't want to get into the argument where I think the challenge is going to push versus like, if you dive into the No at all, it's basically all that person, it's about them, it's them, you know, here's what we're going to do, here's how we're going to do it. We're going to show off our superior insights, we're going to tell people what to do not ask them, we're going to, and then what happens is those people then will second guess, because they never had their voice. So they never shared their thoughts. They never got into the argument because there was no argument or debate to your conversation to be had. So they're just stuck with what are whatever the note all says like, Oh, we're just going to do this. And then they're going to second guess that. And it's just going to diminish that person's ability to do their job.

Yeah, so I think a challenger in conflict or debate or meeting, would ask more questions. Yeah, it was clip and I'd say, Cliff. So what do you think the potential issues would be on financing what you want to do? Cliff? What do you think the manpower need would be to to create what you stated as, as the project to get the job done? What do you think? What do you think instead of saying, you're gonna need three times more staff for that? Right? Yeah, the challenge is going to say what do you think the work the manpower, you're going to need to do that event, that screening, that that huge event over seven days or whatever, whatever you're dealing with, a No at all, is going to just tell you, so you don't really have to think because even if you did think doesn't really matter because they're gonna come trumpet and walk right over you anyway. So it's a learned response when you were the Know It All that you just really stopped thinking and just let it roll and do what you can and because anything you say is going to be trumped anyway. Now the Know It All can't really leave the business can call on vacation, can't have freedom can't miss a meeting, because no one knows how to sell think. Because the culture that was built, you know, this, the culture that was built this in creating all these rebuild synapses in a meeting of creativity, it's more like alright, what are they going to? What is he or she going to say? So that should help you if you're listening to this right now, and say, Oh, my God, this is what I'm a No at all. I know I do that. To me, and no at all is a master of the alternating monologues. And I always discuss this concept because it's really meaningful when I learned it. A monologue is one person talking. A dialogue is a communication between two people acknowledging each other's thoughts, sharing an acknowledgement, and then sharing their thoughts based on the other person's information that they provided with a pause, thought, and then a return of clarity from their perspective. An alternating monologue is where if Cliff and I were having an alternate monologue, and he's speaking, I'm just waiting for him to be done. So I could speak. So I'm still doing my monologue. And he's doing his monologue. And he's not listening to me. And I'm not listening to him. I'm just waiting for him to be quiet, because I have the answers. I know it all. And I cannot wait for his mouth to stop moving. So I can just be the know it all and tell him everything I know. And know it all will do that consistently, where the person's never heard, until the worst thing happens. They stop speaking, they stop sharing, they stop even thinking about what they can do. Because there's not even a chance for the voice to be heard. Though, I think, what do you think going into the three main practices of a challenger so that you can start seeing if there's ways in which you can engage into these behavior styles and helping you with your leadership? What do you think? Should we break that down?

Yeah, like I'll do the so I think like, the first thing on that is like, you want to just see the opportunity. So you want to show a need, and then talk about an issue and then ask questions to challenge, like certain assumptions that are going on. Then the second part of that is, then once you're clear on that, then you want to reframe the problems so we can talk about new opportunities, or I didn't think about it that way. And that's where having a whole team can really come up with really unique creative solutions if the if there's an opportunity for that.

Yeah, I think that's interesting, because when you you might you gotta read reframe what the real opportunity is or what the real problem is, and the dialogue of everyone communicating, not just the leader, the owner. allows them to see and more, reframe it or refine it in a way so that you really know what you're trying to solve, what is the real root problem, I like that a lot. The next one's laid down and intriguing challenge. So you extend really concrete solid challenge that people can visualize. ask hard questions to push people to think deeply. So then that drives the conversation is a hard challenge for people who really think deeply, then you have to let them think you have to let them speak. And back off, which is the hardest part for us, as leaders, especially if we have experienced in the business is to just solve the problems. The hardest part for me here, Cliff, and probably many of the listeners is those experience in business, they want to become a challenger, sometimes you have to hold in this solution that you know, because you've done it, they have to come up with a solution. Because once they do, when it comes from them, they're more likely to engage to create it, versus your way that you did. So that's a tough one, because you know how to do some of these things, right, and you're gonna be quiet and let people come to the conclusion.

And I know when I've done that, there's actually been I, when I, when I give that room and space, I learned stuff, and I'm like, oh, and we could do it differently. And we'll find more creative, more effective, more cost effective ways to do things. And so it's amazing, even though I know the answer to get there, actually, you know, they always say it's not the destination, it's the journey, like that really helps me also refine my own thought process, and I become a better human and a better leader in that space.

And what I like about that clip is if you're quiet, even though you know the outcomes, they may create something that has a little twist of something you never thought of, or they create something that you don't think is as effective as what you've done. And then you could speak to it at the end anyway. Yeah. You can you can share what you learn anyway, at the end, instead of just jumping in and controlling everything.

Downside, right. Yeah,

the last one generate, generate belief that it's possible with the team, and that's your leadership is, is help them generate that belief, we can do this, you can do this, I know, the plan you laid out is going to be effective, I think you can really accomplish this. So you want to generate that belief. Get people to, in a sense, co create the plan with each other. There's multiple people, like have them buy into the plan, the more buy in, the more they're going to execute the plan itself, and then celebrate small wins along the way that they've done. So they can, they can stay confident that they're going to create the outcome.

And I think like the way we do this in the office is we'll set a big, hairy, audacious goal for the year, then we'll break down to the quarter, then we'll break down to the month and we'll break down to the week, and then we'll break it down to the day. They're like, all of a sudden, at some point that that week, day, week or month, it'll become palatable for them. They're like, Oh, we can do that. And as soon as you'll see that in their eyes, they'll like, oh, that's I can do that. Versus that sometimes it's too big, because we're usually visionaries, leading with this huge goal. And they're like, I don't see it.

Yeah, I like that. And just some other small things you can do, you know, start doing stretch goals with the team challenges that push them just a little more, if you used to very incremental, let's say it's growth in the clinic, and you're growing at 10%, a quarter or you're trying to get this many new patients set instead of team like a little bit of a stretch goal. And say we can achieve this by this day, and with new resources, bigger budget, or whatever it may be. But take some time throughout the year and push an area of your goals to a stretch and feed the resources time energy focus to help them achieve that and becomes a new reality. When you do that stretch, and they actually make it make it a reality.

Yeah, that's awesome. So a couple things to become like a becoming a multiplier. So in the Challenger arena, so ask more questions. I think the one they talked about in the book is the extreme question challenge for you only speaking questions until you're comfortable to lead with questions. And so anytime I like when I'm when i My biggest challenge in the Challenger space is when I feel pressured with time, because I'm like, I'm not asking questions, I'm going right to solutions. And so and then the other big one, I think is set to set your team a stretch, challenge or achieve x by this date with this resource. Like if you can give those clear things and let them figure it out. Let them use their genius. Don't tell them how to do it. And then when we take big baby steps as a big as a company, we want to celebrate those small wins. I think that's one of the biggest challenges as we go through. This is I know Joe, I would like it get to the goal. And I'd be like, boom, I wouldn't stop and just take a breath and say, Hi Five Great job, like, let's do something to celebrate. I think that's one of the biggest things to, you know, celebrating with your team.

Now all great concepts to help us become more of a challenger in our leadership style versa. No at all. And again, it's not that if you have the knowledge, it's not that you don't share. It's not saying you're never going to be in the know it all mindset ever it that's not the game here. The game here is to see where can you be a bigger challenge or based on what we presented today? And where could you step back a little bit. And being a know it all, letting your team mature and become better leaders themselves to run your clinic, run your business, and build more cohesive teams that can help lead the growth of your organization.

And just on the backside of that, like bringing it home as a family like giving the same thing like, Okay, we want to do this by this, and we have this budget and let the kids figure it out. Because that's also super fun to do as a family and to bounce it back and forth. And so recognize that, again, these aren't just for your office, they're for your personal life. So. So yeah, great. Any final thoughts on the two that we talked about? So we talked about the the Liberator and the tyrant and the Challenger and the No at all?

Yeah, I can just give my own self awareness, which Hope that helps to people that that are listening, running multiple businesses and learning through these concepts. For me, in wrapping up, I noticed, as I mentioned in the last podcast that I think I become a tyrant during times of fear. a know it all, I think, sometimes, I will speak too quickly, because I've had a lot of experience in areas and my mindset is that I'm sharing valuable info to people, retrospectively now, at this moment, I realized that I can always share at the end of their thought, but I don't want to cloud their thought with my knowledge, because it doesn't allow them to have that creative space. So I've really owned that mindset and been able to start carrying my message to the end of the creative period versus the beginning makes total sense to me. And I'm really glad that I, that I learned that concept. How about yourself?

Yeah, the thing that comes up for me is this thing I learned through Augmon Dino, it's called intrinsic validation. And so the first thing is find out what's important, then the next thing is to create a safe space to be curious. So asking, you know, like, Yep, this is a safe place. And then the next one is demonstrate a safe place where then you create that curiosity? And then the fourth step is then that making a decision? Is this the direction we're gonna go? Or is this the direction to go? And then at that point, then we invite them into our world and our thought process. But we get to that point, when we when we're talking about demonstrating a safe place, you'll know you're finished with that one, when you don't have any more questions. Sometimes we make assumptions, and that will really send us down the wrong suicide way. So I think all the things that we're talking about and multipliers, all those things contribute to that. So just be more curious. That'd be my challenge to you guys.

Well, that concept of the safe spaces is pervasive in a lot of writings and a lot of mindsets. And in the study of human behavior, creating a safe splayed place is vital. In Crucial Conversations, if you've read that book, it's probably my one of my number one book for people in business to read, is to create a common purpose and a safe space like this is what we both want accomplish the same thing. And is it okay, if I be vulnerable and tell you my true feelings on this? Is that okay? I get permission, and purpose. And then you have the conversations, just like what you said. And it's just what the know what all does against which is right? It's self awareness is so crucial, right? Because you don't create safe space, you're going right to the knowledge. So I've bandido Crucial Conversations multipliers, we have three massive good leadership styles that we've just brought up on last minute, and all kinds of carry along this message of crate safety for people to express themselves and grow their own leadership. A good leader creates great leaders.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's one of the biggest measures of that. So are you creating great leaders in your company? That would be my my question. I think that's a great place to stop. Next time, we're going to be talking about the debate makers and decision makers and investors and micro managers. And that'll kind of wrap up on that. We've done a deep dive into each of those and then we'll go from there. Awesome. Sounds great. Thanks, Dr. Joe. Thanks, Dr.