An Unwavering Mindset: Jeremy Roenick's Blueprint for Sustained Excellence

Hey there, Dave scatchard here and I have the honor of sitting down with Jeremy Roenick. One of my best buddies, one of the best teammates you could ever imagine one of the funniest guys, tons of energy loves life. And I'm so honored to be sitting here with Jeremy. Jeremy is a nine time all star. He was a first all star team in the World Junior Hockey Championships in 1989, his leading goal scorer of those journeys championships. 1989. Like I said, he played nine all star games played in the 1991 candidate cup, he won the NHL skills competition record for shooting accuracy, he scored 500 goals. He was a third American player to ever do that. Anyways, in this episode, you'll hear stories from his playing career highlighting the determination to succeed at a young age despite facing doubts. He describes overcoming injuries and setbacks throughout his career. And, you know, discusses embracing failure and having the courage to take opportunities and being a good competitor, even in the loss. And I don't know I compete against, I don't know if he's good loser or not. But he usually wins. That's, that's the thing. That's what makes him great. Throughout this interview, you will get a close look at his values, like dedication, leadership and pushing one's limits that contribute to success at elite levels of of hockey, is candid discussion offers wisdom and perspective that will help inspire both athletes and others. And I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. So Jeremy, first off, thank you for being here. Thank you for showing up and doing this podcast. And you know, you're a special dude. The second that I call do you're like, Yeah, I'm in, let's go. Let's do it. And we actually got to squeeze in a little bit of golf. beforehand. So thank you, and I appreciate you very much. So let's jump right into it. Because I know you've had a big story. What would you say is the biggest thing that you had to go through as a young kid and kind of leading into the draft? And what was the draft like for you, as a young athlete growing up, and I know you weren't the biggest kid. So why don't you share a little bit about that? And sort of, you know what that's like, when everybody's looking at you and saying, Can this guy play or not?

Well, the crazy thing was, is I was I was always the smallest guy. I was always overlooked. And I had a gentleman in, in Chicago, his name was Jack Davidson. And he had watched me for a long time, and there was another scout in Boston that was Jack Davidson's partner. His name is is, is escaping me right now. But they watched me for years. And I was a high school kid in the 80s that weighed 150 pounds. But I was fast as hell and talented. And NHL didn't draft high school kids, they drafted major Junior Canadian kids. And these guys right before the draft stood up in their meeting. And Jack Davidson literally said, If you don't, if you don't draft, Jeremy Roenick first round, if he's available, I'm quitting. And this is a guy who has been around the National Hockey League for you know, 10 decades and put his neck on the line saying if you don't draft him, I quit. I mean, there's a big story behind my draft and how it came to fruition. But to be drafted eighth overall in 1988, as a high school, high school kid, and 150 pounds was unheard of. So the fact that I had guys that literally gave their career and risked their career on me, was was, was pretty unbelievable. And put a responsibility on me. And one that I'd never wanted, but one that I was very fortunate to have. I get drafted out of my junior year of high school. So instead of going into my junior year of high school, on my senior year of high school, I took summer classes at Boston College, my headmaster at my prep school, gave me my entire senior year's credits. And I could leave at the end of August with a full high school diploma, even though I've only finished three years. Was it was it right was it fair legal? Who cares now? Chicago wasn't signing me. We were we were deadlocked. I went to college. I went to BC BC found out that they gave out too many scholarships because they weren't expecting me to come in into the, you know, into the fray. They asked me to play football and kick field goals and as as a as a field goal kicker for Boston College and have that be my scholarship rather than hockey. slot of things happen I learned with a syllabus was five minutes into my first class at BC and realized that I wasn't a scholar. I was an athlete and they said, You know what, I can always come back to school. But if I miss out on this opportunity to play professional hockey, that will never come around again. School is always there. So I took a chance I went, I turned pro. In September. I was one week late in the camp, came in at 150 pounds, wouldn't get dressed in the locker room, I got dressed in the bathroom stall. Because I was afraid to take my clothes off because I was so thin, so little, and battled my way into making the team played four games. My first my first. Now I should be a senior in high school. Now Tony, Monty was my linemate in high school. He's sitting in math class. I'm going out to play the New York New Jersey Devils in October. Pretty different lifestyle. For games. No points. Mike Keenan says you need a little bit more education. They're gonna send me to a junior. So they send me to the hall Olympics. I played 2024 25 games there had like 7374 points, lit it up was you know, went to the World Juniors I set records at the World Juniors that year, and came back first game back in junior blew my knee out. Missed the whole month of January. And the first day that I skated. The Chicago Blackhawks called me up in in February, which was Valentine's Day, February 14, and I scored my first NHL goal and never went back.

So obviously you work your whole life to get there to make the NHL and I remember my first game, it was insane and mind blowing to me. Why don't you tell me a little bit about what that was like for you for your first game? And what was that was like walking in and senior Jersey hanging in the stall for the first time. Would you say that made it real for you.

It wasn't really seeing my my jersey there. It was the first time I walked into a NHL locker room I walked in and walked into L C cord. And LC cord was a legendary tough guy. He was standing there, Buck naked. He had a receding hairline and no teeth. And all I can remember is looking at him and thinking this guy literally is going to kill me. He looks older than my father. He had more hair on his chest than I had on my entire body. And I asked myself, What am I getting into one of the scariest one of the scariest days of my life because you know, these, these guys are fighting for jobs. And I didn't understand the mentality of how they got there. Because I had a little cushy role to get there. I played in prep school. You know, I lived in my parents house. I didn't have any chores. I had to go to school. These guys that I was playing against shovel shoveled pig shit herded cows, picked, hey, these guys went through the wringer to try to get to the pros and literally got beat up getting there. I never never broke a bone or got to stitch before I got to the pros. And I didn't understand that until I got there and saw really animals like, like animals that were chomping at the bit to become pros. I thought that was just was part of the gate. These guys knew what they were doing and where they're trying to get to and would kill to get there.

Okay, so going back to the draft and how did how what was that like going from like, you know being on the outside to becoming one of them because you're basically a kid you're you're you're young your little guys probably aren't making life easy on you. What was that like for you to try to not only make that team but fit in as one of the one of the big boys one of the one of the game changers on that team, especially as a young guy?

Well, it's funny because we were on a plane. My agent and I got on a plane. And we flew out to Chicago. The whole time on the plane. I had no idea what I was walking into but my my agent knew and was trying to prep me he was trying to give me all the great advice and all the good. I think tips that I can be to survive. And I remember one thing that he said to me and I'll never forget it because it happened to me on the phone First, the first time I stepped on the ice, he said, respect them. But don't show them any respect. And make sure they respect you back. And if somebody fucks with you make sure it's the last time that they do it. So this was a conversation we talked about different scenarios and different things. So it just so happened in my first first time I stepped on the ice with the Chicago Blackhawks. It was a scrimmage. And we were playing and Ric vive. At the time 50 goal scorer for Toronto Maple Leafs. I stole the puck from me slash me. I turned around and two handed them as hard as I could. And everybody was like, What are you doing? And all I can remember is it was instinctive because I thought that somebody slashing me just because I stole the puck from them was disrespecting me. Don't disrespect me. I'm coming right back. And the first initial list instinct I had was baseball batting somebody across the shoulders and however I did it. And at think everybody was like, this kid's got a little screw loose. But I think I right away, demanded respect, no matter where I came from. And I think they appreciated that and respected that mentality that I had.

Okay, so here's crazy question, but you played over 1300 NHL games that's that's like double what I played and what was that? Like? Like? What are some of the things that you had to deal with? Physically, emotionally, what are some of the pains you had to endure and go through to not only play at a high level for so long and make all those all star games nine all star games amazing. But to actually fight through that pain and fight through the the, I guess the the day to day grind of being an NHL player.

injuries, injuries are a daily thing. And I think once you come to the understanding and give into the fact that you are going to feel pain, every day, every day, it's part of our life. And we we become accustomed to it. You see people nowadays, just regular ordinary people, they stub their toe, the scream, they yell, they cry, they do whatever soccer players, whether it's an act or not, they, you know, they fall down, they whine they cry, they do everything. Hockey players understand that you are going to feel pain every single day of your professional life, and there is no getting around it. Because even when you don't play the game that you had previous night, something happened to you where it's the residual pain is going to continue. So we let that go. So we're able to deal with different levels of pain. And once you get to different levels, you learn to do go to different levels. So when I lost my teeth, of all the things I've ever experienced in my life, losing my teeth was the worst because you have nerve endings, hanging out your teeth. Whether you breathe, whether you drink the pain is excruciating. No matter what you do, you open your mouth, you feel pain. So I started off with the worst pain you can possibly have, which is probably a good thing. I have broken all my fingers. I broken all my toes. And you say how do you break your toes when they're in skates? Well, when that puck hits your skate and the vibration and the power that that puck hits your toes, your toes are cracking, your feet are cracking, I've cracked my feet. I've cracked my ankle, I broken three or four ribs. I broken my nose seven or nine times I don't can't even remember. I broke my jaw the first time in four different places. than the second time I broke my jaw wasn't 23 Spider break places. Throughout my career, I think I have something between 750 and 800 stitches in my face alone. One game alone, one game alone. I had my lip sewn with 10 stitches three different times in the same game. 10 stitches in the first period 10 stitches in the second period 10 stitches after the game. So you think of all that. I've blown my knee out twice. shoulder surgery. I've had the shoulder blown out. Obviously, groin poles hamstring polls. I have 13 Major concussions from knockout that are documented and who knows OHS because as a hockey player, any kind of hit, your head is going to hit the board you're gonna hit something. There's always a rattle and I can't tell you how many times that I've been hit or I hit somebody where I see those little twinkling stars that come in everybody knows they're called stingers I mean, it's probably in the 50s or 60s, right? So whether that's affected my brain or not, and you've dealt it to you hit somebody, you see the Stingers you see the you see the stars you see those little twinkly things in your eyes, or it's just flat out knockout in you forget 10 or 15 minutes of your life gone. Those I've I've I've incurred all of those.

Oh my god. So having been through all that, what made you continue to stay playing like you had enough money, you've done all the things you've made the all star games? What kept you going? What kept you engaged when it would have been easy just to shut it down?

I think this all goes back to, to your desire to play and your desire to win and be a part of that win. And not just collecting a paycheck, tz to not collect just to collect a paycheck. So when I broke my jaw in 2004 with the flyers, they told me it was going to be an eight week wire wiring process. I could still skate maybe after a couple of weeks just to get my endurance. But he said eight weeks, you're wired you can play after eight weeks. So all I have in my brain is eight weeks I had the day circled we actually had a game. And the eight week came. I've been slurping through a straw for eight weeks. And practicing with the team. I'm chomping at the bit. It's getting close to playoff time. I think we're eight weeks from February. So February, March, we're writing beginning of April, getting ready to go into playoffs. Eight weeks to the day I go into the rink early. Like I would if I'm playing at three o'clock. 331 of the doctors is there. I'm like, Okay, let's take these off. You said eight weeks time, time to take them off. And this doctor say well, we we're not gonna do it here. Once you come to our office tomorrow. We'll clip them off tomorrow. Novocaine you take them off and we'll you know, do some X rays and make sure I'm like, that's not what you said. You told me eight weeks. Today is eight weeks. We are playing the New Jersey Devils. I'm playing tonight. You told me weeks. This is eight weeks. Get these fucking things off my mouth. Now. I'm in the training room. Like we don't you know, doctors, all the doctors aren't here with Novocaine I said, you. And I yelled for Harry Bricker. Who was our equipment trainer, not our medical trainer, equipment trainer comes in. I said, get me wire cutters and pliers. So he brought him in. And I stood in front of the mirror and I started clipping, cutting the wires and the doctors like what are you doing? And unlike I'm taking these things off now. And I cutting in and pulling. So when you get your job broken, they literally so these wires in between your teeth, right? And I can remember clipping and clipping and taking the pliers and pulling the wires through my teeth through and the bloods coming out and I'm pulling the doctors like Sorry, stop, stop. So next thing you know with no Novocaine he starts clipping, pulling, clipping, pulling and my mouth is bleeding. I got all this blood clipping pulling felt great, by the way better than having them in. But about 45 minutes of clipping and pulling. And finally I am track free. No, no wires, no rubber bands, no nothing and put my put my gear on and play. And you don't tell me eight weeks and tell me eight weeks in a day.

So obviously you had tons of high points in your career. It's It's amazing being an NHL guy, but what was that like for you? Maybe during some of the low points like what were some things you struggled through How did you keep going? You know, what did you do to deal with them?

Actually the hardest part I had to incur actually happen in neon show. I told you I never lost I've never I've always been the guy that was picked first. I was always successful and that was my whole life in every sport. When I got traded from the Chicago Blackhawks in 1996 was the first time that I was ever expendable. Where I felt that somebody didn't want me Me, and I was shipped off. That's a very difficult feeling to have to feel when you put yourself up on a pedestal like I did. And maybe it was the wrong thing to do, maybe I can always go back and say it's some of the things that I did wrong. But the day that I, the day that I first felt that I was expendable, is the day that my career started on the downslide. And I didn't handle it properly. And even though it happens to a lot of blood, a lot of people, I let my arrogance and my cockiness and my ego not grasp and, and review or contemplate or break down what had just happened to me. I just revolted. And because I revolted, I started great years. But instead of instead of continuing like this, I went up and I plateaued. And then when I plateaued, I sank to where I virtually almost almost bottomed out in in an absolute, you know, railroad railroad crash in 2006. Seven, where it was, like, all done, where if it wasn't for a guy like Doug Wilson, that gave me one more opportunity. I question. No, I'm pretty positive, I wouldn't be sitting here right now. Talking to you. I would be dead. alcoholic, or, or, or Draghi somewhere, feeling sorry for myself. And you know, it was it was somebody given me an opportunity. But it started in 1996 and plateaued to an absolute freefall, in 2005 2006 2007, that freefall almost almost ended my life. almost ended it. And you know, I guess just like everything else, friendships, you rely on friendships and, and somebody coming through for you that, that saves you. And it could be in the littlest way, giving you an opportunity. I got the opportunity. And I seized it. And, you know, it's it's all that it's all that life, right? It's how much you can keep it this way. It's the people that have the two motional highs and lows that are that are the ones that that bottom out. But I was able to hold it hold together and lean on some really good friends that got me through it. And a great wife.

So let's go way back to the beginning. What was that like starting off as a kid for you playing hockey? I don't know if you wanted to make the NHL right away or you just love playing hockey? Like what was that like for you? Tell us what young Jr was like, and you know, what type of support maybe from your family you had or people around you? What was that like for you as a young guy growing up.

I grew up in a very motivated family. My mom and dad were extremely motivated. They were extremely disciplined. And they were disciplinaries. And they expected the same in the way that they live to their kids. So we had we had money we were middle class, my dad actually was moving to become more of a uppers, social upper status, level of his life in Mobil Oil, and chose specifically to, to leave that life to give myself and my brother the best opportunity to grow as a hockey family. We moved from Connecticut down to Virginia when I was 10 years old. And while we're in Virginia, I got that's where I hit my peak growth right from 1011 12 where I started dominating more than ever, and right when my dad was ready to make his peak earnings. So everybody in life have have their, their their peak where they make the most money. My dad decided to throw that away and take a job lower in the company to move to an area that was more beneficial for hockey for me. Because my parents were one of those, those parents that wanted their hands on everything. They didn't want their kids to go away, they wanted to be near their kids, they wanted to have a family that we ate at a dinner table at night, we ate at a dinner table in the morning for breakfast, and I can go away to school and still have the same opportunities to play hockey and get an education. They didn't want to send me off to a private school to to increase, you know, both my mind and my body. So they made that sacrifice. And everybody makes their sacrifice the way that they do. But they did it the way that they did it. And I was putting in Boston, my dad took a job that paid him $100,000 less than he would have in Virginia, up in Boston, and put me into a prep school where I, you know, I shined where I was in good hockey, where I had a great education. And, you know, it was a hard I mean, it was a hard childhood, it was a hard upbringing, I dominated every level that I played. And I wasn't on the losing team in my life until, until I was my 17th. year as a pro. I had never in my life been on a team that lost more than one until my 17 year Pro. And when you think about that I've been I was very fortunate to be able to be in that situation. Because the sacrifices that my parents made, and because of the determination and ethic, the mindset that they set in me. So I mean, I can go on and on about my childhood and where I came from, and what I did and what I dominated. But my parents, set goals and set boundaries and set rules that I had to live under. And a lot of times I didn't like them. But I had to understand that I wasn't the one that made the rules yet. And think, you know, now that I'm 47 years old, and I have kids of my own, and see what happens. I understand how rules guide us to greatness. And those that follow the rules the best. And those kids that follow the rules with the most eager anticipation of being the best person within those rules are the ones that wins.

What about yourself, like what kept you going? What was your motivation? What was your driver? What? What would you say your success code was to, to create everything that you've created.

I think if anything, you have to absolutely love what you do. And if you love what you do, you're going to do it every day. I loved going out into my driveway and shooting pucks. I had a net, I had a shoot a tutor, I had a plastic plastic board that I would just put pucks on. And I literally loved shooting pucks I loved challenging myself to, you know, to hit the three posts in as few shots as I could. I remember sitting outside and it's 536 o'clock at night and my mom's made dinner. She tells me to come in and write when she tells me to commit and I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the three post game. And I have to hit three posts in three shots before I go inside. And I could remember my mom yelling at me screaming at me to come in for dinner because I'm out there 30 minutes because I've only hit two intense shots. Or, you know, I just miss it by you know, I hit I hit first two that I missed that the fourth one, and that I can't take myself away and sometimes took me 45 minutes before I went three for three, but it was it was my inner competition. They can't go in to eat before I hit three for three. So I stay there. But I love that challenge. I love that challenge with me. I love to challenge myself. Because my dad was was a stickler. He was he was a perfectionist. So that was in me. So if you don't love what you do, and don't challenge yourself within that love you got to find something else to do. Because it's all it's everything is a stepping stone. Right? So it's okay, I'm gonna hit three posts and five shots. You achieve that then it's hitting three posts and four shots. Okay, I did it now what? And if you stop at now what? That's when that's when you stop growing. The great thing about sports is you can compete against yourself. Yeah. You don't, you don't have to be in a game scenario or game situation to compete. You can compete against yourself in the elements. Unfortunately, the elements are going to win most of the time. But it's that battle within within your brain within your mind within perfection. That makes the best players the best. So there's a difference. There are superstars. And they're good players. And they're players that don't make it. And this is very important, because in today's society, it's really easy to do something else quit not do it, go watch television, do all that all the things that distractions that, that come into life that we have in today's society. To love something just to do something. But the problem is, is if you think about this, there are good players, and there are superstars, okay, the superstars get to be superstars is because they don't accept mediocrity, and they don't accept failure, and they don't quit. So when the good players that are good and talented, when they get tired, they go do something else. I'm tired, I'm bored, I'm gonna go do something else. Those are the good players, the superstars, when they're tired, and their legs hurt. And they feel they can't push any more. They give two more, they stay a little bit further, they stay a little longer. They push harder. When their body says no. They don't give in. They don't give into the the brain. They don't give into the temptation of quitting. No, it's not enough, one more time, one more time. And sooner or later, you do that enough, and the superstars become superstars. And the good players become good players, but the good players fall faster. So it's teaching your brain that when you're tired, and you don't think you can give any more. You push again one more time, then you push again one more time. And then you rest. Because that becomes the separation between good and great. Are the people that can teach themselves that I'm not done yet. That's awesome to me.

So other than your own inner drive and your parents support, who were some of the bigger influencers in your life? And what did they kind of instill in you or believe in you that you think helped make you a better player and, you know, fight through those difficult times?

Who influences come in all all different shapes and sizes, you know, I think my dad instilled just, I mean, their competitive level and a no quit. Attitude. My high school coach was the same. I was always one that responded better to negative criticism and yelling rather than paddling on backs. I got mad and I let my negative energy feed into my become my positive energy. So my dad was like that my high school coach was like that. But then when I got to the pros, Mike Keenan kind of exploded that mentality. Because he he thrived on negative energy. He believed that having negative negative energy was better than no energy at all. And he didn't want you to be comfortable. Comfort, builds complacency. And when you're comfortable, you're not going to work as hard. And you're going to be afraid of you know what's gonna happen. So Mike Keenan drilled me and yelled at me and kicked me in and, you know, strangled me and spit in my face and threatened me and tested my will. And you know, then I had Steve Larmer and Michelle gelei and Doug Wilson, who sat there and said, Okay, Kitt, it's okay. He's saying this, because he believes in you. And he's not saying it because he doesn't like you. He's saying it so that you can live up to the expectations that you have. And so it took a bunch of people to to make me understand that this is how it is right? Somebody is supposed to yell at you. But then there's somebody else that's supposed to tell you why they yelled at you and I had both of that in my life. Mike Keenan was the he was my he was I was his whipping boy you know did I like him for it? I never thought about then I'll I'll I thought about is just I was afraid of, you know, if I didn't do what he wanted me to do. I wouldn't play So I use the fear. And instead of the fear of failure, I use the fear that he had me on a on a on a rope, that you can just say, Nope, you're not playing. And that fear of what I was going to do. If he threw me away, scared me more. Then if I do what he told me to do, I'd get hurt. Or something would happen. The least I was playing. If I failed, or I got hurt while I was playing, I'm still playing. But if he decided to throw me away, what was I going to do? That fear weigh overcame the fear of putting in what he told me to do. So those mean, those are the people Mike Keenan, Steve Larmer, Michelle relay, Doug Wilson, my dad, my house, my house will coach Arthur Val senti. These are the guys that that's a Keith could chuck put a big, big piece of my life too, because he taught me even though he was younger than me. He taught me to respect other people outside the game that have, you know, a direct impact on us. So there's a lot of people that can thank but you have to learn to have thick skin no matter what. Thick skin is crucial and pro sports.

So this, this, this podcast is called the all star success codes. And you know, what would you say you've played with the best players in the world and these all star games and like, what's that like walk into the dressing room with Wayne Gretzky and Marilyn mu and all these guys like, what do you think the common traits that they have? Are that normal humans don't have? What do you think makes them so special?

Swagger. You walk into a NHL All Star game room and there's swagger everywhere. There's ego competition everywhere. And that's what makes guys great, right? Because you're in an all star game playing with the best players in the world. And it's like, okay, I got you who's who's going to be better? Oh, my God, this guy. And it's, you're amongst the biggest egos even though they don't show it inside their body. They're huge egos. Oh, my God, you feel every inch of ego. It's like the way they talk to each other. The way that they their mannerisms, their body language their their strut into the locker room, their strut, they're talking to the media. There is such a unbelievable vibe that runs through a locker room and an all star game. My first All Star game was 1991. It was my second full year in the league. It was in Chicago stadiums, my hometown. So I had my style that I always I'm not going to leave my style because that's my style. And right next to me, they put Wayne Gretzky. So here I am getting dressed next to Wayne Gretzky. And I got to see all the attention that he that he grabbed. I heard him say things he said. He talked about the day when I was 14, when we went out to breakfast. He's like, I'm proud of you. I mean, I knew you're gonna make it here. It's like you're gonna have a great career and all those things I didn't even hear. Right. didn't even hear it because I was so like, in awe of what was happening. That, you know, you just, you watch Wayne Gretzky talk. You watch Wayne Gretzky, get dressed. You watch Wayne Gretzky, talk to the media, and all that you can become so consumed with greatness. I mean, you can't. You can't you can't copy what it feels like in in a greatness room. In all star games. was Mark messi a Wayne Gretzky, Paul Coffey, Brett Hall. C vitamin bean all these guys are in a room together I mean it's it's it's stupid. It's It's It's greatness at its best, but it's also respect that its finest because everybody loves being around each other. And then you get out in the ice and it's like now you got greats planning integrates, right it's it's it's a it's a really cool atmosphere. It's one that I think it's one that you you become a part of and you crave and you you want to you want to be there every year. This is why I've always said how do guys say no to going to the All Star game. Such a disrespect to the game it's such a disrespect to the honor and, and, and the passion of the game or the history of the game, or to the recognition of your greatness. all star games was when most I look forward to the game to the day when They announced the all star game. And if I wasn't on it, I was pissed. But I was depressed. And I there was a lot of times I didn't make it. I mean, I made it nine times out of 20 years. So there are 11 years where I was fucking pissed. Because that's an honor to be in that room. And if guys sit today and say, Well, I'm gonna rest, and it's no big deal. Go fuck yourself. That's you. I have no time for arrogance like that. That's greatness at its best. So

how did you keep that mentality? How did you stay in the zone? How did you keep that high level of play for so many years, because most guys don't have careers that long most guys are, you know, you're not a huge guy, you're not six foot four, and you played a hard game. So what would you say some of the secrets are for you to keep that high level of play, to stay mentally strong, but also to, you know, stay in the zone and really be a difference maker for your entire career,

I think understand understanding that you're going to fail is is one thing, because like we've talked about already, you are going to fail. So don't be afraid of failure. Because if you're afraid of failure, you're not going to want the puck on your stick. Okay, you're not going to want to be on the ice in the big moments. So if you can understand number one that you are going to fail, then that's, that's just part of life. And you want to be the one that everybody looks at. And everybody says, you know, way to go, your everybody pictures themselves, scoring the winning goal, to win a championship, you're, you play your games, as a youth, pretending you're somebody you're playing in your driveway, you know, pretending you're Bobby or Wayne Gretzky, and you picture yourself scoring that goal to win the championship. So your whole mentality has to be, give me that puck, Give me that ball, put the bat in my hand, throw me the ball. So I can make the play. And you have to want it all the time. Because you never know that one time when you get it, that it's going to be that wow moment, it's going to be that championship moment. So don't be afraid of the failure. Be excited of the celebration. And I was always the one that was being excited about the celebration. My friends are always going to like me, if I do something and I fail, my friends are still going to like me. But if I do something that's going to be monumental and memorable. A lot of people are gonna like me, even though I don't know them, and I don't care. And it's just that, I think it's just that I want to be on the ice, I want the puck, give it to me at all opportunities, and do anything that you can possibly do to, to make a difference, and not hide. If you hide, no, you're never gonna have an opportunity. And if you do have the opportunity, you're going to be scared of the opportunity in order to do that. So in order to get the greatness in order to score 50 goals, you got to have to want the puck, you got to want to under stick. Every time you're on that ice you are getting in position, tapping your stick, getting working hard to get in position to get that puck you want it, you're not going away to, to move away from it. And that's all about courage. You know, the courage is also accepting failure, not being afraid of how bad that feels. And once you come, once you come to grips with that, then you're going to you're going to be more successful, then you're going to fail, because you're going to remember your successes more than you're gonna remember your fails. So for me to become 100 goal scorer. I wanted the puck and the more I had the puck, the more I had an opportunity to shoot the more I had an opportunity to score and repetition, repetition repetition becomes successful, and you become better. You know, they say to become a pro it's 10,000 hours of of actual work, right? And people have told me this. Every time I was on the ice something happened. And I tell young kids today when you're on the eyes, make sure something happens. Make sure the people that are watching you notice you because the day that you become a noticeable debut, you become irrelevant. So whether it's making a big hit, making a great defensive play, blocking a shot for the team, sacrificing yourself, fighting dropping your gloves to protect somebody, no matter what that is. If you go a shift without being noticed, you've just wasted an opportunity wasted it never going to come back again. So the more you can be noticed is, the more is the better chance you have of being successful.

So for you, what would you say is the difference between a winner and a loser?

I think that there's, that's a huge question that that you can take. People that lose, can still be winners because they can accept losing in a proper manner. Everybody loses in life, there's nobody ever in the history of our lifetime and, and in the history of, of human existence, that will never experience losing. It's the people that understand losing and except losing to a certain degree. But hate losing so much that they don't want, they'll do anything that they can do to prevent it. But understanding that it's going to happen, allows it to be okay. It's the bad losers that can't accept losing, that can't accept the fact that they have to become better and work harder, in order to avoid losing. Or the special ones list, we all I was told one time you have to hate losing more than you love winning. And if you dissect that, hate losing more than you love winning, that will push you to to become successful. And you have to be a good loser. Nobody wants to be rubbed in the face, nobody wants to be told that you're better than or, or your, your greater than doesn't, there's nothing more than a good competition, you have a winner, you have a loser, which happens in everything. And there's a solid handshake in the end. And you have to understand, sometimes the better person doesn't always win. Right? I mean, I can I can I can tell the people hard work, will beat talent, seven days a week, when talent doesn't want to work. So sometimes the less talented person is going to win. And that's what makes competition so great, is because sometimes the inner drive of people, and the inner determination and the will to want to win, will overcome and will beat talent, because talent becomes complacent. And those are big words. But if you rewind, and listen to what I just said, over and over and over again, it's going to sink in, and you're going to understand why superstars get to where they are.

So obviously, that was an insane interview. And you know, I just want to thank you for being here. Thank you for being a friend, thank you for contributing to our listeners and to our group and to share so many amazing stories. You're one of a kind, buddy, I love Yeah, I really am grateful for your friendship. And, you know, I admire you, I still look up to you, and how hard you compete not just in sports, but in life. And, you know, I'm honored to have you on the show. And I'm happy we get to start off things with you so so thank you so much. So one thing that didn't make it into the cut, one of the things that Jeremy said to me that blew my mind was I challenged him on what it takes to be an all star. And he kind of challenged me back and he said, Well, we all want to be all stars when we're kids, right? And I said, Yeah. And he said, I'm sure that at some point, you wanted to be an all star. And I said yeah. He said, Well, when did you take your foot off the gas? And I said, What do you mean, take my foot off the gas? Because well, obviously you took your foot off the gas because you never became an all star. And it kind of like a dagger to my heart. And I'm like, Well, gosh, I don't know. Let me think about it. And I went back and I scored 27 goals when you're with the islanders, and it was absolutely a magical season. And I really thought I had a chance to get nominated to go to the All Star game and most girls on the team like usually that guy gets to go. And not one person brought up my name as a potential all star for the year I was having nothing. I was a third line guy. So I wasn't playing on first two lines, so I wasn't getting as much ice time as leading a team and goals. I was fighting I was doing everything and nobody even brought up my name. And I believe probably somewhere subconsciously, I'm like, Well, that's about as good as it's gonna get playing on third line. So like, if they don't want me now, they probably won't ever want me and maybe I started looking forward to my breaks off let my body heal, I played very physical my body was I was aching my shoulders and my neck and my back. And maybe part of me, you know, didn't mind running down to South Beach and having a cup of cold and laying by the pool for three days, instead of going and playing more hockey, which sounds insane, because obviously I'd rather do that. But I think to make myself feel better, I told myself it was okay. And, you know, I would start planning my All Star break, you know, a month or two before and that's not really the mindset of a champion. So then he, by him challenging me to say, when did you take your foot off the gas? It was a wake up call for me. And I actually went back into my coaching groups after. And I started asking my clients that so when did you take your foot off the gas, like at some point, you wanted to do this, at some point you wanted to achieve this? So at some point, you want your body to look like this, and it doesn't. So you must take your foot off the gas, you must have chosen a different priority, you must have done something differently to have that happen. So what do you what do you what did you take your foot off the gas? So you can almost pinpoint any buddy's life and say at some point, you took your foot off the gas and your health, your relationship and your finances and your career goals. At some point. You backed off in one of those categories. I guarantee it because everybody does. So that was a wake up call. And I use that. So if I ever say to a client, when did you take your foot off the gas? They know exactly what that means. So anyways, awesome interview. Thank you, Jeremy. I owe you big time. I was one of the biggest supporters of our All Star coaching group and he's he's jumped on many podcasts with us and done so many things. But you know, I love him. I'm grateful for this interview. And let me know if you guys have any questions or anything to say and Jeremy, have a great day.