Ask The Expert: Are you using SEO for your podcast? with John Vuong

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Hello, hello amplify you family, Michelle Abraham, your host here today, I am bringing you and ask the expert interview. I've got john foam here with me today from a local SEO search. And I'm so excited to dive in to hear a little bit more about how SEO can help us with our podcast, what we're doing right what we're doing wrong and what's coming down the pipeline for us from Google. So welcome, john, thank you so much for being with us. He's coming to us all the way from Toronto, Canada. So another fellow Canadian in the house today. So thanks, john.

Thanks a lot, Michelle, for the intro excited to be on your show. And here to answer any of the questions that you may have for your audience members.

Awesome. Well, we'll just be real transparent with our audience. I really brought john on for me, because I have no clue. But and I know a few things. But you know, I think what I know is probably outdated. And I really want to be able to help our podcasters get some really good ideas or some some really some strategy in place when it comes to SEO to join us or anything like right off the top that you want to share with us. And like how did I would love to know actually how you got into SEO in the beginning and how has really helped your business grow?

Yeah, definitely. So eight years ago, back in 2013. That's why I started this agency local SEO search. Prior to that I actually worked in advertising sales for 10 years, I did dabble into traditional advertising sales, I went into online Performance Base affiliate marketing. And then I worked at Yellow Pages group selling ad space in the printed directory. At that time, when I was there, a lot of these business owners small medium sized business owners just didn't know where their customers were consuming and finding businesses like them anymore, because the attraction the user behavior was was changing. And they just wanted to work with someone that they trusted that can guide them and be very transparent and honest, to help them become more visible digitally. And for me, I really didn't know a lot about SEO, because for me, I knew there was a need and demand in the marketplace. I just wanted to fill that gap by being someone to help these business owners out. So that's why I did I went in to this whole digital world SEO world not knowing anything about SEO. And I learn from scratch to really help businesses now get a really good foothold in terms of visibility on search.

I love that, you know, it's easy to be easy, you just flip open the Yellow Pages and look up a business. And you know, I used to think that was easy, because there's only one place to go. But I guess it's kind of the same as now there was one place to go and Google to get the same sort of search rate.

It's true, right? Like if you think about what Google kind of dominates for it's really people who are seeking out information with questions or a product or service that they want. And it used to be the categories and yellow pages. So it kind of replace that whole industry directories. And now it's an online search engine, right? So what I want to now talk about is helping your audience members amplify the message. So I think it starts off with understand who your customers are audience members, and then coming up with a good title, right? Not only your brand, but every time you put together a podcast, every time you start marketing it or putting it live on all the different platforms. That title is the first thing anyone sees. And it shouldn't be keyword rich. What I mean by that is something with substance that people have a problem with that they want answers. And once you start embedding some of these topical questions that have not only high volume, search volume, but convertible traffic, so things that really get people to click on the title because that's the first thing people see. Very similar to the like a YouTube bit thumbnail, right, that first image. If you don't have a compelling design, image call to action or a hook statement. You're probably not getting a lot of clicks on it. podcasting Very similar with that image banner, as well as the title is so important to ensure that you have a higher click through rate. So understand that the keyword that you want to go after with volume with a high traffic, as well as that banner. And then of course, the description, right. So, you know, 50 words are 100 words, that allows you to give some substance, very similar to how Google works on the search. It's the title tag, the URL and the meta description. So very similar, it's like a little snippet of what's going on in that whole podcast of yours. And if you can really dig deep to find and uncover what your customers want out of that episode, and deliver it in that short period of 50 words or the title, you'll have a higher click through rate or have have a higher conversion rate. And hopefully, that will lead to more revenue, sales subscribers, whatever the whole KPI is metric that you have for your podcast. There is

the there there is the answer right there, guys, it's the secret we're all trying to figure out as I was saying to john, before we press record that, to me, and SEO is kind of like the key to going out there. And we're never really sure exactly what it is or how to work with it, or what the tool is with it. But I think you answer that in such a really clear, concise way. I love it. And now the million dollar question I have is then how do we figure out what it is that I that people are looking for? And how to answer that. So

I think there's a lot of podcast platforms out there, right. So you're uploading the audio transcribed, or whatnot. But you need an asset, you need a website to be holding and storing everything. So owning your brand, it could be your name, it could be a branded, whatever company that you have, but then you dominate for whatever you're known for. So the whole purpose of the website is to become the thought leader and the authority figure for your industry, right or in the world or your community or whatever it may be product or service that you're offering. You want to be owning that broad keyword service term or whatnot. The challenge is what are people searching for, to seek out your product and service. And most audience members of yours probably have a client base, they have revenue already. My suggestion for you is go to your top 10 best paying customers, ask them exactly how did they navigate and find you? What were the steps that they took? Why did they trigger to reach out to you in particular? And what made them decide to use you? These are all the questions that you should be answering on your website.

Gotcha. Now when it comes from referrals?

So with referrals, you should really find out because you already have a relationship with these customers. Now. What were the main triggers? Was it the referral? Or was there other substance like your personal journey, your story, the expertise that you brought? Was it social proof, other things that really might matter? Right, because every person has their journey, and it's different, but you want the best type of ideal customers. And those are the ones that are your best 10 paying customers, right? If you can attract more of them. So you build a website to answer all the questions of those 10 best people. And hopefully, once you have the content substance, you will start attracting people that are like the 10 best. And then it's all about amplifying your own message in a lot of different forums. So with SEO, now you want to optimize for your website to be ranked on Google. And I know there's a lot of different ways to get traffic, right. There's paid media, there's going on other podcast shows, there's, you know, affiliates, there's video, there's different channels out there. And then of course, there's search as well. What you need to realize with search is people are in control when they're seeking out information. And that's the best type of traffic, organic traffic gets you the highest conversion rate versus any paid media traffic. podcasting is very high up there. Because the engagement that people have the relationship that you've built, you're spending 30 minutes to an hour listening to a topic or someone that you find valuable, right. So it's time that people are spending to get to know your story or what you're offering. So it's a great medium. But when it comes to search, people need something. They're in control and they're seeking out information or a service or product or Answer, and they're gonna navigate on their own right? They're gonna go on Google mostly, and they're gonna find what impacts them what really stands out. And of course, it's the title with a meta description, and then the URL, but when they click on your website, it better answer what they clicked on. So it has to be relevant to what you're trying to push, right? Don't hate switch content, right? Make it as authoritative as possible so that when someone does click on it, it lands with substance with, there's four types of content, right? video, audio, images and written, you hit them with as many content pieces, substance relevance as much as possible so that people stay on your site, the key is keeping them there to then hopefully convert to whatever that KPI is, could be subscribing to your podcast, it could be selling a course buying a consultant fee speaking engagement, buying a book, whatever, maybe, because you want to maybe it is an offer that you have to collect email to, that could be a funnel. So the whole purpose is owning your asset. Right, that website is yours. And once you start owning and collecting your database, you can do a lot with it.

Yeah, that's so good. I love that I was following along, through all of that, just going oh my gosh, like, I've wasted so much time that having my website like so. So getting connected with everything and like, Oh, gosh. So I love what you said about that. And I think I want to just reiterate one of the important things, there was that bait and switch on the title because guess we're gonna look for some now keywords to put in our title. But if that podcast episode does not have that topic in there, your listeners are going to be very angry with you. So you need to make sure that also is relevant. And that's actually a way you're talking about on the podcast. But I think I'm starting with the Johnny thing, starting with the SEO and like knowing what some of the problems are of your listeners at the beginning is going to also help us then create the content. Am I doing that in the right order, which is that we should be going first and figuring out what the problems are of our avatar audience, and then working that into our episodes?

Yeah, definitely. So my suggestion is do a lot more strategic, competitive analysis. And a lot happens before you implement. A lot of people jump into things not knowing what they should know, before they start just like any paid media campaign. Yes, it tracks, yes, you're gonna do a lot of surveys, AV testing. But if you plan it properly, knowing exactly what your avatar is, with an offer, with a drip campaign with a funnel, it makes for way better conversion rate. And you have to have that strategic plan in SEO, or else you're gonna waste a lot of time and money. So for us, we plan everything properly, because we need to know you, what differentiates you are you what's your story, who your major competitors are, what they've done, what they're ranking for, how long it took, what we need to do for you based on our framework, and systems and processes. And we're always pivoting because Google is changing as well, as well as your competitors are changing. So it's a moving battle. And for us to really help businesses, they have to be on point as well. So they have to kind of already know their business, and with revenue that knows who their customers are, what their purpose of the website is, what does success mean to them? What is the, you know, a good campaign look like for them, all these really matter in a successful SEO campaign. So it's more of a relationship than just a campaign.

Yeah, and I love what you're saying too, because now we're not just throwing up content, because we want to talk about it. And or, because that's, you know, the guests happened to come along, that was a great topic. And now we're being more strategic about it and more thinking ahead, and thinking about the whole, the whole funnel and that whole journey with our customer, starting with the content, the free content at the beginning. So I want to just want to make sure our audience really heard that i'd love that you said, you know, having that plan in place and really knowing who are your paying customers who's buying from you? What does that look like? What are the problems that they're solving? And what was the journey they took to find you? So that was super valuable? So I really appreciate you saying that. Is there anything else that we should be thinking about? So obviously in amplify you were helping podcasters launch their shows were a lot in the creation stage. So what are some things that were podcasters in the creation stage to help them kind of develop that those show ideas and that no, and that making the show as searchable at the end of the day? What are some things that we can kind of add kind of this click top two or three things that we can do to really help figure that out? They're not sure yet already? Yeah, like And then we finally just told us,

I would say, really understand who you want to be known as that's the most important thing. Don't get, don't worry about what other people are doing so much Worry about yourself and figure out what your ultimate Billy's goal is, once you figure out that why well, who you want to be known as, right, and your audience in the niche, and who who would that Avatar and personality that you're going after. Once you figure that out, every blog, every podcast, every title, should really add value to that avatar, add value to that purpose, add value to giving people a sense that you kind of know what you're talking about and position yourself properly. So everything you produce should be a stepping stone. And it's great to have insights from competitors to gauge what they're saying what you know, the topics and some of the keywords that they're using. But make it your own personalized as much as possible. Because you are different. Everyone's different in their own. Right, right. So that's what why people choose you versus someone else, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I like what you said there with about, you know, sometimes like we have people come to us that they know the message they want to get deliver. But the message is one thing, but what they want to be known for is actually something different. So I really liked that you said that, because that's something that maybe is overlooked a little bit in the creation stage of the podcast. They're more thinking about the content that they want to talk about. But it's actually more about what what you want to be known for and how people find you. I think that was really that was really a good point there. Oh, my gosh, there's so many things to think about, is there like somewhere like, Here used to be like Google keywords and stuff that we could go to and see what people are searching for? Like, what's the thing these days that we can kind of get a sneak peek into like that information?

Yeah, we use a paid tool called keyword tool.io. But Google AdWords, you can set up an account and just or you can just google keywords, usually, they give you the most popular search queries, they don't give you the volume. However, the volume is very discreet. Anyways, even with all these tools, it's zero to 10 and 10, to 100, about 100 to 1000, very broad term, they don't tell you really a lot of metrics. And with that, I mean, that's just search, right? How many people are searching, what you need to figure out is for your own website, how many people are actually clicking from a search, and then converting from a click, right? Because ultimately, everyone's different. And you can track your own with Google and Linux, on your own asset on your website, you can track everything, podcasts, there's a lot of tracking software as well. So it's great. But there has to be some sort of tracking at the end, like, what's the KPI? Are you wanting people to subscribe or link to an offer with maybe a code? So then you can track how many people are actually listening? And then converting. So understanding like the whole funnel, like you mentioned, like, what's the purpose to join a community build an email list, sell a course. But everyone wants to do the course right away or sell the consulting. But usually, you have to harvest people when drew them with live content or build a database of some sort, right, giving them something to feel much more confident and comfortable before they make a larger ticket item purchase from you.

Right? Now, this is like this is a question I get asked all the time. And so I'm curious what your answer to this is, as people like, well, I want to do a course. So I don't really want to complete all that content for free on a podcast. What would you say to that?

Yeah, definitely. So I get it. However, a lot of people who are speaking on a course, people forget things, people, you have to understand, you can easily as an expert, you've already probably wrote a ton of blogs, and you probably put a lot of podcasts out there. If you organize it, systemize it and make it a course people are probably willing to pay for it. If it's easy to access and information that's sortable, right? However, you being the expert, you feel like you don't want to disclose everything because then your competitors are gonna sniff it out and then use it. Be Be true to that. Yes, that is a possibility. But there's no competitor that has time to do that. They're so busy running your own business dealing with their own problems trying to grow and scale their own business. So I would say whatever you want to disclose, disclose it. You can make it a short kind of disclosure and have an offer at the end. It's up to you right but content, I would say be vulnerable. People how you are because that's the true you, once you start hiding things, people will no probably not have a good feel about who you are.

Yeah, I love that answer. That's the kind of answer I give to you. But it's like, you know, people also listen and learning different styles too. So with whatever you said, and a podcast or with a friend, and a blog might not be the same as if they see it, you teaching it in a video, you know, even if it is the same content or some of the same content. I think that was a thing on what you said about that. And no, but you know, it's like the term the use of yoga classes, like Keep your eyes on your mat, right? Like you're your competitor, you can go do some competitive research at the end of the day, they're not, they're not too worried about what you're doing. So consumers out there. So if you're, if there's a popular podcast out there that's in the same sort of space as us new doing really, really well. Is that something that we should go and look at and kind of just speaking about competitors? See what kind of like topics they're talking about? Or is that now irrelevant, because you want to be known for something different than maybe they want to be known for, even though a similar kind of topic.

I mean, there's different ways to go about that, right. Depending on what stage you're at, in your business, if you already have an audience member, like a whole flow of followers, or people subscribing, have fun with it, do things that you enjoy doing, talking about with people that you enjoy talking to, right. But if you're early stages, and growth is very important, and you need more subscribers, and you need like following and email lists, then really do competitive analysis, figure out what people want, and deliver on it. Because if you don't answer their problems, nobody wants to talk to you listen to your podcast, right? The number one thing you need to know, as a business owner is, if you're able to fill a gap in the marketplace with content or a product or service, and you're adding value to someone's life, people are willing to pay for that. If you can fill that gap, then you have a business. So it's not rocket science, I would say basic is always better. Like I didn't know anything about SEO and now I feel much more confident after eight years. And you know, it's not rocket science, business owners are just happy, happy to add value, right? filling a gap with someone that has a problem that wants to pay for somebody because they don't want to do it themselves.

Yeah, I feel like we're really some business owners of the Cray creative, right? So you're in the creative space, the creative mindset. So the analytics and like analyzing that. And that kind of stuff is like such a disconnect. Sometimes I know for speaking for myself, included that it's nice to like, have it like, like shared with us in such plain terms and like easily to understand. So thank you, john, for sharing that.

Picture, right? Like, everyone can get bogged down with analytics and funnels and trying to figure things out. It's so basic that people forget, like, why are you doing this, who you want to serve? What's the problems? And have social proof? People all they care about is can you help me? Who have you worked with before it similar my situation? And if you have some sort of like match there, they may call you out? Right? Like they will fill the form or whatever it is very simple.

Yeah, as simple as that is simple form. And it just seems like we've overcomplicated it a lot. I think. That's awesome. I love that, john. So any last like bit of advice for podcasters out there to really make the most out of the the available SEO that's out there. Like I think there's a huge opportunity that not a lot of people are really harnessing in on or really focusing on it all in their in their podcast. So any last bit of advice for us?

Yeah, so with SEO in your website, it's just like any business, okay, you should really understand that that asset piece of your website can be discovered through a lot of channels, and you can use it for the purpose of inbound leads. A lot of people will think of like Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter or YouTube as the only form of marketing and advertising. Well, SEO can really deliver high quality, you know, inbound leads of your specific demographic and personal queries of people seeking your but you have to acknowledge that in the first place. People give up really quickly because SEO is more of a long term strategy. It's more about just like you being an expert in your industry. You've been doing it for 1520 years. Think about what goes on in Google. Why would they match you up on that first page after building a website in one year or six months or three months. You need to earn your way to prove to Google and ultimately your customers that you are the real And running a business is not one or three months or six months, it's years in business. So it's the same fundamentals right people, people overcomplicate this, I, because I worked at Yellow Pages, I kind of only work with business owners. I'm more than the realist. I go, you know, if you are planning on being in business for 510 20 more years, you should really understand this asset piece of your website and do it well get inbound leads properly, optimize your podcast, optimize your social assets, your website, so that people recognize that you are the experts.

It's an authority piece really, like it really needs to all tie together. And I think that's like something that people aren't taking seriously. And I know myself included, because it seems like another thing to think of how to another thing to deal. But it really is an important piece. And like you said that organic traffic is so much more valuable. We spend all this time being putting content out on our podcast. But really, if we're not putting it onto our website, and not putting it out in other places, or repurposing it really, it's a waste of time and effort because you're not getting the full value out of it. And you're not building that asset of your website and your domain with your authority piece there. So yeah, you've opened my eyes quite a bit. And maybe coaching,

gotta get on that. Just having your website with transcriptions of your podcast, linking to whatever platform you're using, and then repurposing it on using bits and pieces on social platforms to redirect back to that asset of your website. So use your website as the focal point of every marketing material advertising that you have, and get people to go back to it. If you have a book offer. If you have courses, if you on other third party sites, it should be your own asset, which is your website. Yeah,

I love that. Oh, john, you've opened our eyes and give us so many things to think about, we're gonna have to bring you on another time for the follow up sequence of this. So any last words? You want to leave us for advice? before we let you go today?

Yeah, I, I'm a big believer in like giving right giving back and helping others. So if anybody needs some advice, feel free to reach out to me, I want to help businesses understand the power of SEO, because a lot of people are afraid. They're, it's like a whole, you know, black box, or people just don't understand what is required. So I try to educate people inform people, it's Yes, it's complicated in the back end, very technical. But if you understand the concept of it, that's all you really need to do. If you are going to hire someone, or an expert in house or Freelancer or whatever, maybe consultant to do it. You just have to understand what the power of that medium is. People forget that. And they go to social media and start paying tons of money on ads, when maybe there's a better medium that can, you know, cultivate a lot more inbound leads for you. Awesome.

I love it. And where can we find out more information about you? You can check on my website. It's

www dot local s e o search.ca. So we're based in Toronto, Canada, but serve as clients all over the world really?

Awesome. I love that ability for us to work all over the world these days is so awesome. Yeah, that's so great. Well, thank you so much, john, guys, make sure you reach out to john. If you have any questions, connect with him on his website or in LinkedIn. And john, just want to thank you so much for the value that you gave our audience today. I think that was super helpful. And I know I'm going to be have got a checklist of changes to make him go back and transcribe this episode. The nose down. So thank you so much for being with us today.

Awesome. Thanks a lot. Michelle.

Okay, amplify you family out there, go and make some changes in your website. Think about your title before you start your podcast and really make sure you kind of figure out what do you want to be known for? I think that's the first and most important piece that john just you know, said today, like really who What do you want to be known for? Let's leave it at that and think about that for this week. And see you again next week. Thanks. So it's done.