Rich Cavaness

Welcome to Behind the Lectern. Since 2006. Your host, Jeff Klein has been working with speakers at all levels, from beginners to Toastmasters International Award winners, from experts to national speaker Association Hall of Famers. In each episode, Jeff introduces you to some of these speakers as you learn about their speaker journey, how they got started, where they came from, where they're going, and more. Take the lessons they have learned on their way to help you with your own path to make speaking work for you. Let's get started.

Hello, everybody, Jeff Klein here back again with another episode of Behind the Lectern. I'm excited to welcome Rich Cavaness as our our guests today, how you doing Rich?

I'm doing great, Jeff, thank you for allowing me to be on the podcast with you. I'm honored to be here.

We're glad to have you, you, Rich has a unique speaker, because everybody's journey is unique. But he's got some good stories to tell and some things that drove him to speaking. And that's what we're here for one to hear all about that. So just as a, like a starter question, what got you started as a speaker?

Yeah, it wasn't certainly something I sought out, I can tell you that I you know, I would say that I'm much more of an introvert, Jeff, and being a little bit more extroverted and outgoing is something I have to kind of force myself to do. But it really started in the late 90s. When I started doing. I'm a Christian and I started doing church meetings. And I was doing revivals and different things like that. And I was getting coaching. And what I would do is I would actually write out each of my sermons or speeches word for word. And then I would stand behind the lectern and actually read it word for word. Now what that did, though, was I did that enough that after a while, I could start kind of veering off, and I would be able to have more contact with the audience as I became more familiar with my message. And so you know, I started to feel more comfortable. And I overcame the kind of the fear of public speaking by just doing it more and more and more. And so over a period of about, I would say, three years, I was speaking six days a week, and I was probably speaking for two, three hours a night. And so it just became a little bit more natural for me, I would say, even today, I enjoy it. I love speaking actually. But it's just one of those things where I always like to be very prepared. And I like to know my material. I'm not a very good shoot from the hip type of a guy. Yeah. You know, I like to really know about what I'm going to speak on and kind of the flow of it and that type of thing. So, but it all began kind of in the late 90s, doing evangelism and revival meetings. Right. That's what really started it for me.

Wow, six days a week. That's

Yes, I was actually a full time evangelist at one time. And so my family and I traveled all over the country. And I was literally speaking, I would go into a church, and I would stay there for several weeks. And we would do go out into the community and everything. But I was speaking six days a week. So it was, it was a lot. But like I said, it got me to be very much more comfortable with just being out front and being able to normally at least not be paralyzed. Let's put it that way.

Yeah. So were there some life experiences that got you started doing that?

Well, I think I started out by just being a teacher at our local church. And then I would kind of be in front of the group, when I would teach. And it was like a group of about 10 or 12 people. So I would say it kind of started there. And then it just seemed like it kind of progressed a little bit more to bigger groups. At one time, I did speak to a group of I think it was five to 700 people. That was kind of my largest group. And it was not uncommon for me to speak to several 100 people during a week. So I got more comfortable speaking to a large group.

Got it. So and then what brought that to an end.

Well, so basically, I ended up taking a pastoral role. And then, of course, obviously speaking every week, that was sure, sure.

Kind of a different speech every week.

A different one. Yeah, that was also kind of interesting. And then eventually I just kind of got the bug again to kind of the entrepreneurial bug to get back into business again and you Those type of things. So it was a really great experience and certainly got me to a place where I would have never expected. If you knew me in high school, Jeff, you would be if they said, Hey, do you see rich cabinas being a public speaker or anything like that? I guarantee everybody would have gone. Are you serious? That guy? No.

That's funny. So what were you in any clubs in high school?

No. Well, I was in deca, you know, business group, a distributor that Yeah, yeah. But other than that, I didn't do any, any some painting.

So where did you work? You so decade you get out of school early to go work, right.

So yep, I had a cleaning business that I actually would go and clean. And I did that probably two or three nights a week. And so offices are not homes. Right. In the evening. It was often actually commercial buildings.

Got it. So you and you started your own business?

Yeah, I started my own. And yeah, and it kind of just took off from there.

Interesting. Yeah. I had a DECA M student as an employee, when I worked retail. And I was interesting in and of itself. I have a high schooler in in a Radio Shack back in the 90s.

You know, I can see you in a Radio Shack. Yes.

I knew the story. I managed to store for almost a year.

I can definitely see you in a Radio Shack. Yeah, I can definitely see what you've dropped at that price. I like it.

I was good at it. I I was manager the month for December in January, the you know, the toughest two months of the year? Yeah, I'm not sure. So that was fun. And it was I think I had the most fun because I knew I wasn't planning to be there for my whole life. Yeah. Yeah. It's good thing too, because the company is gone now. So. But yeah, that was Did you do any time in retail?

You know what, actually, I did no time in retail. I did not actually do anytime in retail. I really like jobs that were a little bit more physical, and kept me moving. And that kind of thing kind of fit fit my personality a little bit better.

Well, it's funny, because that we're talking about a job where you didn't actually interact with anybody.

Yeah, there you go. That's why I was completely happy. Yeah.

Because along with all introvert thing, right? Now, as a kid, you didn't grow up as a kid thinking you were going to clean offices, you didn't grow up as a kid thing, and you're gonna sell insurance, which is what you do. Now, you didn't think you're gonna be a pastor, when you were a kid? Was it when you were a kid? What did you What do you remember wanting to be as a kid.

So as a kid growing up, and I was really into baseball, I played baseball through my high school years. And so as a kid, I would have loved to have played, you know, some kind of a professional baseball or whatever. I realized real quick, once I got into high school, that probably is not going to be the path that will be for me. But the one thing that was interesting that a lot of your listeners will find interesting about me is that I'm actually one of the few people you'll ever meet that actually has a college degree in ski instruction coaching. So what ended up happening is that after I got out, I kind of got away from baseball. I really turned my passion to skiing, and became a professional skier. And so I actually became a ski school director. I managed a ski area in Washington to ski school, and did racing, race coaching. And so I just went all in and loved it. And even to this day, I just got back last couple of weeks ago from a ski vacation. So I mean, I'm nice. I love skiing.

How did you wind up in Dallas?

Oh, good. Well, you know, Jeff, that is a long story. But I lived in Vegas, and you wind up in Vegas. So I ended up in Vegas. Right after I got out of ministry, I had actually gone to work for a company called ascend, which was a offshoot of Franklin Covey. They were getting into car dealerships. And what they wanted to do was teach them somewhat of the seven habits, but do it in a car dealership. And then also, I ran all their hiring for them as well. So I would do these I would contract out with local dealerships help them with their hiring, then I would train the new hires in kind of a new curriculum on how to sell cars and that kind of thing. So that's what I did in Vegas. And unfortunately, was that the same time that everything fell off the cliff in Las Vegas 2008 It was a bad time to be there. Let me tell you. A lot of people had, you know, homes foreclosed on and just a lot of people lost their jobs. It was really a rough time, but I was there for about three years, and then ended up coming to Dallas for several reasons, but obviously The the the employment situation was much better here. And then I ended up meeting my future wife, and she lived here. And so I decided to move here and see. See how it all worked out? So took a big risk moved here and it paid off.

Yeah.

I'm grateful for that.

Now you've written multiple books. Yeah. The first couple of books were from through the ministry, right?

Yeah. The first one was kind of a response to 911. And then I wrote another one that was in response to Jeff, do you remember that book? And the movie called The Secret? Oh, yeah. Okay. So a lot of people in the Christian community were really freaked out about the whole thing. You know, I knew

Which was kind oftoo bad, because there's really, none of its it doesn't it's not opposite ideas. But

Exactly. So what I did, Jeff is I was one of the first Christian authors to actually respond to the secret. And I wrote a book called decoding the secret, the law of attraction from a biblical perspective, and basically, very cool. Basically, my premise was 90% of the secret is true. And it's applicable and it's biblical. There's about 10% of it, that it's not let me clarify what's not. And so that's kind of how I did it. And it actually went very well. A lot of people have read this book.

That's great. Well, I mean, law of attraction is just a lot of it's, it's, you ask for what you want, and you might get it. Yeah, right.

Even the deeper meaning is, is that you tend to draw to you the thoughts that you think. And so if you're thinking negative thoughts, take a look at your life and maybe look around. And if you're not thinking positive very often, maybe that's why things aren't going,

Yeah.

You're kind of like a living magnet, you'd kind of draw to yourself, the way that your thinking goes. And that's actually a very biblical concept.

So sure, God does say trust in me. Right. And regardless of which of the monotheistic faiths, they're all we're all based on, trusting in that guy. That one?

Yeah, absolutely. Right.

Spiritual thing. And a lot of that, again, that if you choose something to trust in, then your outlook on the rest of your life changes.

Yes, absolutely. Depending what it is that you're trusting it.

Yeah, well, you can go the other way, too. Right, exactly.

And then I wrote a book, I kind of had a break and things. But then I wrote a book called the road. And it was basically a promo book for a nonprofit organization here locally called the road called the road. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. And so I wrote a book, it's matter of fact, I think it's still on Amazon today. Then I had an accident. And I fell off, I had a near death experience about fell and fell off a two story roof and got really messed up. And during that whole process, I really started to understand what the concept of gratitude was, I realized that I had been given a second chance in my life. And I felt beyond grateful for it. And so anyway, I did a lot of research on gratitude. And so I wrote a book called The gratitude effect.

And that's a heck of a book that really is and that's when we met was when you were promoting that book as a speaker. And, and that kind of that goes back to what I was just saying, when you change, you know, when you think about something, a different way, then your whole world, your view of the whole world changes,

Especially if you come from a gratitude perspective to start with, and you just start your day, maybe even end the day with gratitude. It just completely changes your perspective. You see things in life that you don't normally you wouldn't normally see if you didn't have that attitude. So and then during COVID, I ended up writing two books. So power to thrive, and Next Level Living, which is a book about how every Christian I believe needs a coach in life. So it and I go through there and explain biblically coaching, the concept of coaching in the Bible. So it was pretty fun to do that. But I love writing, I love researching, and I like being able to help people to improve their life. That's probably my basic message always is, I want to help people to be the best that God created them to be.

Now, so let me ask you the new book. I picked it up. Mutual Friend, and was it wasn't starting to read it? What is the as a non Christian as a Jewish guy? Yeah. Is that book going to? Am I going to be running up into a bunch of Christian themes, or is it more biblical and then spiritual themes?

Well, I would say yes. So there's a definitely

There's a difference. Yeah.

Yeah. There's definitely a couple chapters in there, Jeff, where I talk specifically about Jesus from Christ, and accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior and those type of things. So that part of it probably wouldn't, isn't going to appeal to you. But you know, the way I always tell people to improve their lives is chew on the meat, spit out the bones, not everything that you read is going to be for you. And you may not even agree with it. But there could be something in there that could really be a blessing for you. Yeah, I would say that most of the chapters are more general God speak. It's based on the Bible science, psychology and personal development. So it's got a mixture of a lot of different things. But there are several chapters, Jeff, that deals specifically talk about Jesus Christ. So like I said, those chapters may not be given to you. But

Yeah, well, I'm just talking about or reading about Jesus ism. You know, that's not a deal breaker in any way, shape, or form. Right. And I've read quite a few books by people who talked about their relationship with Jesus, which is a little bit different than their relationship with God. You know, there's that there's a little, a little fuzziness there that that I don't always fully comprehend that. Some say it's the same thing. And some say it's not the same thing. And I definitely understand the concepts by the book, as it were, the different denominations teach on that front. But But I wanted to ask you that question. No, because and well, you know, our relationship has always been wide open on that topic. We don't neither one of us offends the other by talking about our beliefs, and sharing, and even asking each other questions you know about our specific beliefs.

And even though I have I'm coming from a Christian perspective, what's interesting about our relationship is that I'm a Sabbath keeper. So we have we share that in common. And so I love that part. And I think we have a lot more in common than we have differences. Absolutely. I've always enjoyed our conversations together. But the whole idea behind the book was really to help people, especially, you know, what, we've gone through these last couple of years to really help people, you know, a lot of people are stuck, a lot of people find that there's something missing in their life, and a lot of people are paralyzed by fear. And I really feel like what power to thrive does is it gives them a pathway, it gives them kind of a unique coaching system where they can walk through and really help themselves be better. So that's, that's what it's about.

All right, good. Well, and like, you know, that's one of the things about the podcast is I get to choose which direction we go in the conversation. Are you good? But are, you know, again, our focus is on what what's your, and writing and speaking go hand in hand, you know, you've spoken about the book and with the book and things like that. And you've relatively recently started a new entrepreneurial venture and back into the insurance game.

So I was, I have about 14 years of experience in the insurance industry. And in the 1990s. Before I got involved in ministry, I actually started a Insurance Agency in a little rural community up in Washington state called when actually Washington and had an agency there for 10 years. And then obviously, did ministry for a period of time and kind of got out of insurance. I was a life insurance agent for probably a couple years. I wouldn't say full time, but kind of part time when I when I was in Vegas.

While in ministry is a little you know, there's some insurance there.

There you go. Except it's not with an eye, and it's more like a s, you know, assurance

It's okay. All right, we'll give you that.

But then, you know, my wife and I just got talking and you know, we've got some really specific financial goals that we're wanting to accomplish together. And, you know, we just decided, hey, what can we do to really amp up our game and really move things forward. And so I was like, you know, what I did really well in insurance. It's a great industry. So instead of starting one from scratch, I actually acquired one, which was a really great move on my part. And so I've been doing that now for over two years and haven't it's here in Addison, Texas, and we're doing really, really, really well. And I'm enjoying it. It's been a real challenge. And I've learned a lot and it's been great.

It's good. And how often are you speaking these days?

You know what? I'm not speaking? Often. I am speaking, but I'm not speaking. I wouldn't say often. I know. When you and I were working closely together, I was doing at least a couple times a month. Yeah. Which was nice. But I would say, you know, maybe once every couple months, it just really depends. I've spoken at a couple of conferences, you know, not too within the recent past. And then yesterday, for example, I did an actual agent training for about 40 different agents down in Temple, Texas. So, and every now and then I'll speak at a church. And I really liked that. So not as often as probably I would like,

Let's say, are you speaking enough to not miss it? But it sounds like not quite

yeah. Not quite.

Got it? All right. Well, what's what are your plans on that front?

You know, good question. So, you know, with power to thrive, just coming out. And by the way, thankfully, to a lot of people that really supported the project, it became an Amazon best seller in the US and in the UK, during that launch week, so that was really cool. But, you know, my kind of, I would say, you know, my target is, you know, I really want to speak at churches and local church groups, men's groups, you know, even women's groups, if they'd have me that just anybody that has an opportunity for somebody to come in and speak. I'm, I'm open to that.

Yeah. Have you done much virtual speaking?

That's a very good question. I would say, I've done some, but not a lot. Yeah. So that's not not something I've done a whole lot of, but in my business, you know, I've done a lot of a lot of stuff with my clients. Virtually Sure. Sure. I've been on a lot of group coaching calls. So I've seen how other people have done it. But I actually haven't done it too much. I've done a couple webinars, those type of things, but you know, not a whole lot.

It's a different animal with a lot of similarities and a few things that are very different.

Yeah.

So when you speak, to sell the book, or is there anything else you're offering? Or?

Good question. So what I did, what I'm doing now is I'm just kind of asking people to go because what I'm doing is I'm actually, I wanted to try to get the book. What's more important to me now that anything is the message itself, and to really help people. So what I'm doing is I'm sending them to power to thrive dotnet. And then I've got some, some videos there. And then they can actually order the book there. For free, the book itself is free, if they just pay the shipping and handling when we get the book off to them. So it's a different approach than I did with the gratitude effect, where I just kind of had everything off of Amazon. And this way, I've kind of been a little bit more proactive in, hey, I really want to get the message out, the best way to do it is let's just give the book away for free. People just pay the shipping and handling. And then that way we can get the book out. So that's what we've been doing. And we've gotten some good traction with that. And the reviews have been phenomenal. I mean, really they have

Yeah, now is the object to get people to buy other programs, or is it more about the message? Okay,

Yes. So when they go to that website, what will end up happening is that they'll, they'll have different options that will come up, I've got a four week coaching program that they can go through that deals with the scripture of the Second Timothy 177, pre recorded or, and then they've got another hour long training I do on the 13th, the thrivers manifesto, that's actually in the book, talk, I do training on that. And then I actually have an entire weekend, where I did a power to thrive workshop, and I professionally recorded it, Jeff, and then that's also available for people to purchase. That's like 23 sessions. It's really a lot. It's excellent. And where people can actually purchase that as well. So yeah,

That's wonderful. You know, so many of our listeners, our viewers, our speakers learning well, who want to learn more about how to monetize and how to take what they're doing, and turn it into multiple different streams of income. And you've created that. Some people call it mailbox money. I call it money while you sleep, where you've got a little engine there that's working with that. I mean, obviously, it takes real work to create it. But once it's created, you can sort of put it on autopilot. And then every time you speak you point people in that direction. And are you doing much in the way of podcasting? Because I mean, obviously you're on this podcast, but

I'm being invited to speak on people's podcasts, but I do not have my own podcast. Yeah,

No, no, I was I didn't mean your own. But you are. Are you are out there. Guests. Intentionally.

I would say I'm on more podcasts and I'm actually doing speaking in front of groups. So

Yeah. And it's well, it's low impact. Yeah, right. Yeah. Do it right there from your office. Yep. Although we have a couple friends in town that have podcasts Studios, where you can actually go and be in their podcast studio, but which I'm not sure which of that defeats the purpose of the convenience of doing it from your own office or

So I guess it really depends on your market and who the people are that are interested in your podcast. But if you watch Joe Rogan, for example, he's just sitting at a table, he's got a microphone in front of his face, the guest is usually there. They're just having a conversation. And yeah, there's a lot of frills to it. It's pretty basic. They've got their cigars, and he's got his alcohol, and he's got all of his stuff that he always has. He's got everything right there. And, you know, they drink, they smoke, they do everything. It's just like, literally, like they're just having a conversation, it's actually really cool.

Well, and he learned that from the king of all media, of course, Howard Stern was the first guy that started videoing a radio show already started was the first but if not the, than one of the right in those early days before satellite radio started, they were filming, you know, you could watch the show on the internet later, you can watch people talk.

A lot of people listening to podcasts this day, you go to the gym, everybody's got their air buds, and and you ask them what they're listening to. And it's some podcast. Yeah. So you know, obviously, podcasting is very popular people like it. Absolutely. The background doesn't make as much a difference.

Yeah, and a lot of them will do a recording like we're doing and only released the audio.

Yes.

We're doing both. We released the both the audio and the video, the you know, the audios on all the podcast services and the videos on YouTube or on our beyond the electric website. So but so we want people to be able to consume in different ways. And of course, our differentiator, I think is the the whole live multi class, we're on clubhouse and zoo live. And we give people the opportunity to be in our studio audience for the recording. And then once it's recorded, it goes up on the podcast services at some point, because I'm recording about two episodes a week, but we're only releasing one a week, because I want to be able to take time off down the road. And so that's working out really well. And I mean, not everybody needs to get needs to become a podcaster as you've learned to take advantage of the technology and have the platform.

Yeah, kind of like the question. You know, what's better than owning a boat?

Having a friend who owns a boat?

You got it? You know, what's better than owning your own podcast?

Friends, podcast,

Not necessarily true. I'm just kind of being poking fun. And

I get it. No, no, it's but there's something something to be said for that. And of course, for those speakers that are listening, it's important to be on podcast that the audience is people you want to reach. And of course, thank you for joining us, because we're focused on the speaker journey. And of course, we always talk about all the other stuff as well, we want to make sure that we let people know all the different ways to come into speaking. And, you know, as you're a testament to, you don't have to want to be a speaker as your estimate, you don't need to speak it doesn't need to be your job title, for you to be a somebody who speaks and get your message out there or sells your book or health program,

I was gonna say, one thing that you really helped me with when you are coaching me that really has made a difference, even today is being able to take a message, take one message with a couple key points, and then be able to do that in a 20 minute, a 15 minute or like a 30 Minute. So what I was able to do is create a message that, you know, a shorter one, and then maybe like a middle one, and then a little you know, 30 minute one. And what's amazing is that you'd be surprised at people think why never be able to speak for 30 minutes, man, I'm telling it, when you put your story, a little story at the beginning, mix your little story in the middle of a couple of key points, talk about those and then wind everything up, have a call to action. Next thing you know, your 30 minutes are done. I mean, it goes as 20 minutes is really fast and 15 minutes is like wow, you know, you really got a gotta really think about what's my what's the meat, what's the value? So I really appreciated that about what you did for me, because that really was something that I think really has made a difference and even sermons now when I speak and that kind of thing. I try to almost think about TED Talk format in the sense of let's see what I can do in 20 minutes. Nice. You know, because what I think a lot of pastors do that's a big mistake is they speak for 45 minutes, 60 minutes and until only about 30 minutes. Exactly, you people are gone, they really are. Yeah, I've been, I actually watch other speakers, and I'll be at the back of the room and I watch people and everything. And usually at about the 20 to 25 minute mark, you can start seeing people checking their phones, you can start seeing people kind of moving around in their chairs, you know, you start to see things. And so I've just kind of learned that, hey, 20 minutes, if somebody could give me 20 minutes, I'll give them a couple key things that I think can really help them in their life. And that's really all you need to do. You just want people to be able to think about it during the week, you don't want them to get lost in the weeds and things like that. So I owe that to you. Because you really did kind of give me a paradigm shift and really helped me to organize. And that was a really important thing. So if you're listening to the podcast, and you're looking for a speaking coach, Jeff is definitely the guy. He really I mean, I had been speaking publicly for years. But what he did is he really helped me to formalize, what's my message, what's the couple of key points that I can give people that will give them value, and then have a call to action at the end, and then just be able to be succinct, not be able to have a lot of arms and things like that, but just know what your message is. Give it and you're done. So I really appreciate that it really has made a difference.

Thank you for that. Thank you. And you're welcome. And thank you for that testimonial. Rich, I appreciate that.

You're welcome.

Yeah. And that's really, you know, the whole that's where our niches as fallen weather, but not certainly not by design. But there's a lot of people out there teaching speak, to sell, and get paid to speak and all these other things. And our niche has become 20 minutes to clients and leads. And because you can speak all day, at a seminar and close and that's one technique or one specialty, you can speak at a three hour event and close and that's one specialty, and you can do 90 minute keynotes. And that's another specialty but 20 minutes to clients and leads takes a little bit of planning. And you need to change your some of the focus to make 20 minutes turn into results. And thank you for telling people that it works. You know, because the websites for everybody who speaks because meeting planners use the website. But our training is focused on that niche of people who speak to get paid. Especially in down the street and around the corner. Maybe I need to add that to my branding, you know, down the street and around the corner. It's so late, especially with virtual but so anything that, you know, around speaking that from rich cabinets that we haven't talked about today.

You know, I will just say that for anyone who's feels like you have a message, and you'd like other people to hear your message. A couple things, I always believe that writing a book is a really great platform to use. I don't really look at the sales of my book, as much as I look at the book opens up doors. And just like with Jeff, so I wrote the book, The gratitude effect we got together. And then I got to speak to a lot of groups here locally about the gratitude effect, because people are actually really interested in that topic. Even today, I have people reaching out to me wanting me to speak about it. And it's an interesting topic, it's a topic that people are realizing is really important. And so the thing is, is that just like with anything else, I'm a firm believer in coaching, really big believer in coaching, I'm a coach myself. And I believe that if you really want to get good at speaking, and having a coach can really help you. And Jeff has some good packages and some different options for you to help you with that. But the other thing is, too is that, you know, if you really feel like you've got a message that you want to get out there, it's really important for you to get together with somebody to kind of really flesh the message out and really kind of get it down to where it's okay, here it is. And 20 minutes, this is how I could actually give my message. And I think that's really important because then if somebody was to ask you, Hey, could you speak for an hour, 90 minutes, you can take 20 minutes, and you could easily wind it out. To me that's the easy thing is speaking 90 minutes to be honest with you. That's not Yeah, that's getting a message to 20 minutes and giving people value out of that 20 minutes. To me that takes some thought. And it takes some coaching to help you with that because that's that's not easy to do. That's That's why Ted Talks are so popular because

Yeah, 12 to 15 minutes.

Yeah, it's amazing what those people can get across in that short period of time. And you can do the same thing as as a speaker.

It's great. Thank you. So is the Where do people get the other books besides? Or is there are a link and power to thrive to buy your other books?

Yeah, so they can so at power to thrive, you can actually get a free download of the gratitude effect. Oh, wonderful. Okay, so if you go to power to thrive dotnet, you can watch some of my videos, on the four P's, I talk about that and relate it to my near death experience, you can get the power to thrive book for just shipping and handling. And then you can download the gratitude effect as well. So that's awesome. Amazon has most of my books. So you could type in Richard J. caviness. And pretty much everything, you know, populate there.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I suggest you do that and click the Follow button. So when Rich's next book comes out, you'll hear about it?

Yeah, absolutely. And you can go to Rich cabinets.com, which is kind of we're kind of revamping it, but at least you can get an idea of my speaking my coaching and those kinds of things.

So to book Rich to speak. Go to rich capitalist, calm. There you go. Wonderful. Thank you so much for this time, Rich, I really appreciate it. I miss hanging out with you. I'm glad we got quality time together today. And for those of you listening, tune in again to hear another great story about an amazing speaker. And we'll see you on the next episode.