Build Profitable Challenges - Tips from Guest Expert Amanda Engler

Hey everybody, it's Tara Bryan and you are listening to the Course Building Secrets Podcast. Whether you're a coach or a CEO, the success of your team and clients is based on your ability to deliver a consistent experience and guide them on the fastest path to results. This podcast will give you practical, real life tips that you can use today to build your online experiences podcast. The Get Results and Create Raving Fans. Why? So you can monetize your expertise and serve more people without adding more time or team to your business. If you're looking to uncover your million dollar framework, package it and use it to scale, you're in the right place. Let's dive in.

Hey everybody, welcome to today's episode of the podcast. I am so thrilled to have our guest today, Amanda Engler, come and share with you all about her business and how to grow your online business as well. So Amanda, welcome to the show. So happy to have you here. Give us a little bit of a sense for who you are and and what you're about...

Thank you so much, Tara. I'm so excited to be here. I'm Amanda Engler. I'm a sales and marketing strategist. I specialize in challenges and live launches, and I help online coaches make their next challenge their most profitable and effortless yet.

Awesome. Okay. So we talk a lot about challenges on this show. So I'm so excited to have you here to help impart some knowledge on how this whole process works. But before we do that, so tell us a little bit, like, how did you end up in the, in, you know, helping people with, with launches and all of the things. I would love to hear a little bit about your background. Like, you know, did you start in something else and switch? Did you, were you just in a entrepreneur and business owner at heart, like where did, where do you fall in all of

that? Absolutely. Yeah. So I am from an in person events background. That's what I went to school for. That's what I grew up knowing I wanted to do down in my bones. And then I had kids and I realized, wow, that's not really conducive for getting a lot of time with them. And then. I realized there's this whole online business model in 2018 and I hopped on that bandwagon and started my own business as a service provider so I can kind of make those own, my own hours and hang out with my kids. And diving into this industry, I realized there's summits and challenges and live launches. And so I started learning all that I could about these online events. Cause obviously with my background, it just made sense. Everything about the sales process, the marketing process, the engaging of the attendees, the customer journey made sense in my brain. And with my background, it, it was a really good fit and really fun. So I started diving into that and helping other online coaches. And then. Started as my own, I have a course and I also help with a high touch with some of my more specialized clients.

Yeah, okay, I love that. Well, and I think that that's so common, right? Is that you started one thing and it's not even that you are, you know, Oh, well, I'm not going to do this anymore. Anymore, I'm gonna go do something else. It was just sort of a natural evolution to being able to go from live in person to to live virtual online, which gave you more of that flexibility, right? To be able to help people do your thing. And also, oh, by the way, be a mom, Because that's It's like we all run into that, right? It's like, oh yeah. How do we do that and have time to do our

Yeah, absolutely. And that was like the abridged version, like very condensed. We're going to make it tight. But along the way, like I started out just as a general VA because I was like, I need to turn my brain off. I just need something super simple while I figure out To your point, what that looks like to be running a business from home and caring more for my family, like, what is this? And that from being a general VA and working with so many different coaches across so many different industries and niches, that's how I kind of fell into this and just started picking up the breadcrumbs.

Yep, yep. Well, and, and again, that's so common, right, is that we sort of, you know, decide to do something, and then, and then it sort of starts to, to gel and move forward. So, so how did you go from being a service provider and helping other people to being able to to launch, you know, like a course, for example, you said you had a course, so you have a packaged version of what you do. How, how did that happen that you were able to go from like just helping people to being able to package what you, what you have done so people can consume it in a different

Yeah, absolutely. So going through that process, really working with my clients, I had to create a process that I took my clients through. And from that process, then I created this framework that I could package and sell in this course for someone who's not maybe able to invest in the hands on high touch with me one on one. And so really identifying the process and that framework made it so that people coming through the course could have more success and understand the information better.

So do you find that the audience is a little bit different or is it the same audience and they just want to consume what you are doing for your high ticket, high touch clients in the same, in the same way.

It's usually people who are coming into the course haven't created a challenge as of yet. They've seen them. They have a general idea. They just want to make sure they're going to set this up right. People who are coming in to my core offer the challenge cure, they've already ran a couple of challenges and they know they've got an issue or they aren't hitting a 10 percent close rate on their sales after their challenge and so they want to hit 10 percent or higher and that's what I do.

That's awesome. So how many people do you, do you think go through your course and then once they built the challenge, then they're ready to actually You know, kind of diagnose what's going on and take it to the next level. Do you, do you find that like you have that continuity happening?

I would say it's about a 50 50 split. Right? Because I like to think I designed it well enough that they have pretty great close rates. However, what I find actually happening is that their marketing and messaging and their offer aren't in alignment so that when they plug in their challenge, they're losing people along the way in that customer journey.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yep. Interesting. Okay, cool. All right. So, that's like how you've taken your business and, and turned it into something that's, that's scalable for you, right? So you kind of went from general to, okay, now I'm more specific and, and then, you know, really tying in your love of events into challenges. So that, so to me, that's so exciting because, A lot of times people don't find that right. They think that they have to do something, but it's not, it's just not aligning what their passion is in terms of how they're moving. So it sounds like you have been able to incorporate that, which is super exciting. To just to hear and for anyone listening, like you can marry the two things together. And and make a business out of it. So like, just know that, like, be comfortable with that, but then you're able to package your framework and offer it to people in a different way, which again, is another dimension that allows you to have that flexibility where you have that asset and you have the, you have the ability to help people kind of at a different level and you know, one of the things about that you probably find is the people that you're helping in person, the higher touch people that you're working with, it's really hard to see what, what their challenges are for them because they're too close to it. So having you come in helps just have a different lens look at their business. So you find that probably all the time, right? When it's some, sometimes it's almost obvious to you, but it's just like, they're just too close to it so they can't see it anymore. It, can you talk a little bit about what that that looks

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I remember I was working with a copywriting client and she had this great saying for all of the students in her copywriting membership was, you can't read the label from inside the jar. And I couldn't agree more with just your business, that's why it's so important to have mentors and coaches and other feedback that you run through a filter and say, okay, like, is this really applicable? What can I take from this information and apply and really start to move my business forward. And within the challenge arena. I think what like people really get stuck in is how much information do I share? Am I sharing too much information and they're getting what they need and then not buying my offer? Or am I, there's this big fear and the stigma around being an online coach and, and not providing enough information. So then you feel like it was a bait and switch or a pitch and, and then you're going to be labeled as like a swindler or something negative. And so really finding that sweet spot of where you feel good about the information you're providing. And again, you're getting people to enroll in your course or program at the end.

So talk a little bit about that specifically in terms of you know, what's your advice to someone who's putting together a challenge and worried about those particular things. Do you have some suggestions or tips and tricks for people in terms of, you know, how much do you share? What kind of things do you share?

Yeah, absolutely. So I, inside my framework, I have, it's a three point system. It's; you want your ideal clients, you want ideal clients, signing up for your challenge. And not only do you want them signing up, the second phase, right, is you want them to actually show up live to the challenge. Because we know, speaking from the data, like, they're more likely to buy. And then, of course, if they're showing That third phase is like they're staying to buy. So they're signing up, they're showing up, and they're staying and buying. Within that framework, I have some best practices and just some questions or clues that can help you along the way. Kind of like an audit of yourself that you can go through that I'd be happy to share so there are a lot of challenges out there, right? Like, we are probably inundated with so many challenges and your ideal client may be too. So you really want to make sure that you're standing out, right? We don't want to be using big, terms or jargon. So a couple of questions to ask yourself to make sure that the way that you've named your challenge is something that your ideal client can raise their hand and say, yes, that is for me. That is what I need. So they can sign up for your challenge. Cause that's the first thing. We have like a three second attention span right now. So, the name,

Less than a goldfish, people, it's a problem.

Exactly. Exactly. So it's so crucial to nail the name of your challenge. So one, can your ideal clients quickly identify the result they will receive by signing up for your challenge. Two, does the challenge itself, the name, what you do, challenge the status quo and pique curiosity? Like, wow, I wonder how she does that. That's like so opposite of what all the other gurus are saying in your niche and industry. And then three, is the result something that they want or is it speaking to something they need? I see that quite a bit where it's like they actually need this, but you have to give them what they want and then give them what they need, right?

Yep. Just like little kids, right? They want the cookie, but if you can like hide some vegetables in there, like you're good.

absolutely! That's one of my favorite tricks with my kids too is like, they don't need to know what's in there. If you package it correctly, they're going to be getting what they need and what they want. And so that's super important. And then in terms of getting them to show up, right? What I found is that a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs will fall into one of two categories, right? They are a creative brain or they're like a logical brain. And so you really have to combine the three to ensure that people are going to show up and come and what I'm talking about is the content and the how, right? Like, how much value are you giving? And this is where we thread that needle, right? If you're more of the logical, you're going to be like really focused on the information. And xyz and you're not going to be like super passionate or super excited you're it's going to be more of a tutorial whereas if you're more creative brain you may be focusing more on the patching what it looks like and what it feels like and fall short a little bit on the content. So as you're looking at that, kind of ask yourself, am I coming up? Am I walking away with this with a linear brain or a creative? I mean, most of us know this about ourselves, so we can kind of diagnose that pretty quickly and start working through some of those roadblocks. And then finally, the last piece, right? Getting people to stay and buy. To find out what may be sabotaging you from getting a higher close rate, here are like three super simple questions to ask yourself. And a lot of it has to do with timing, right? One, are your attendees leaving as soon as you start talking about your offer? Are you talking about it at the very end? Are you talking about it at the beginning, in the middle? Like, when are you talking about it? Is it out of the blue? Like really look at that. And then two, does your framework feed into the tools inside of your offer? Course Earlier I said I had a process and then I created a framework. I'm very passionate about making sure people understand the process they take their clients through and understanding how to create a framework from that, that they can use in their marketing and in their challenge. And then finally, three. Can they literally see themselves inside your offer and the benefits of you helping them solve their problem because of all of the content and information that they've learned throughout the challenge in the mini, the little wins along the way throughout. Did you give them enough of that? Cause that's really the heart of a challenge, right?

Yeah, so that's awesome. So and, and like, rewind. Can you rewind in podcast? Yeah, rewind and like write those questions down because those are super important as you're sort of looking at is your challenge, is your webinar, is your whatever it is that you're doing, is it actually answering those questions? Because you're right, those are like the the key pieces and I think one of the things that to me, it's a difference between like doing a challenge and doing a webinar or training or whatever is the piece of getting them involved, right? Like if they have that ownership experience and they're like, it's almost like they're, they're doing something before they would be solving their problem, right? So like, people don't argue with their own data, so how do you get them thinking like, oh yeah, this is like, this is my thing, this is a problem I have, and I actually can find a solution, and the solution is you know, the, the person who's doing that challenge, right? Like, and connecting those dots, that's such an important piece. And one of my favorite terms, and I don't know, since you're in the kind of live event space, is a through line. Do you know that term from your days of the, so for me, this is one of the things I talk about a lot is like, what's the through line, right? Like you don't just like randomly put out a training and then hope that it's going to be the bridge that causes somebody to buy your thing. Like there's a whole, there's a whole strategy behind that, which is why you hire people like Amanda, to look at that strategy of how do you take somebody from here and then naturally and authentically just move them into the next step, which is working with you. And so when you are helping people with challenges, my guess is like that's what you're doing, right? Is you're, you're looking at like, are you creating that natural progression forward so that it's just, It's not like this big sales event almost. It's just like this natural, like, yep, I'm the right person to help you solve the problem that you have right now. And I'm challenging you to identify that as you move forward. So talk a little bit about that because I love, I love the idea of a challenge, like getting people involved versus having them just be passive participants in something that you're doing.

Yeah, absolutely. And just because it's top of mind, I read the book called Hidden Potential by Adam Grant. And I don't, have you ever read that book? Or am I a narrator? I love Adam Grant. I think he's just. The coolest guy anyway. So in the book, he talks about experts and as you go down this journey of becoming an expert and learning your craft, you start to become so far away from where you started. There's a bit of a gap between who you can teach and where you're at. Right? So In this example, what I'm trying to say, I'll summarize, is that you can only teach as far back as you can remember, right? We start to forget some of those gaps, and I think as we create our courses and we get better at whatever it is that we specialize in, we can miss that gap. And again, going back to that, if you're in the jar, you can't read the label, you might be forgetting some of those initial questions or that through line that they may need to get them ready to buy your course or your program. Does that make sense?

Yeah, for sure. No and that's so true, right is that we tend to try and create something for where we are and not where our ideal person is and remembering that as we're moving forward. And, and to be honest, like to your point, that that's the best reason to do the challenge is to break, like, cause I would say like, people are wandering around, like, I have a problem. I have a problem. Like. I wonder how I can solve this problem, right? Like that's what your, your ideal customer is doing and then you're just helping them be able to make a proper buying decision by preparing them for solving that problem. And so it's, it's like, yeah, going back to where they are and remembering like when you're wandering around with the problem that you had and you know, like for you, the problem your people probably have is like, well, how do I, you know, how do I find my ideal person and, and sell them into my program? Well, here's, here's the way to do that. And in remembering like, you know, a lot of people haven't done a challenge before, so you got to start them back in like, what's a challenge and what does it mean, you know, all the things and then bring them forward. So, yeah, so I love that. We'll put that in the show notes adding Adam Grant's book. So thank you for mentioning that. Okay. I, I love this. I love talking about all the things. So what would you say is your top piece of advice that you have for people who want to do a challenge?

My top piece of advice is to start very low tech. And I actually, depending upon where you're at in your journey, I come up against a lot of pushback in this because a lot of people want to come across really professionally. And I get it. Like I 100 percent get that. I am a big believer in projecting where you want to be now. So you actually get there. Right. But, start super simple. You don't need a lot. You don't need a totally complete funnel. You don't need like an email marketing platform just yet. Like get it out there, test the challenge, get some people in. As long as you're like connecting via DMs, you've got them in a Facebook group of some sort. And when they're joining the Facebook group, you're collecting their emails. Like, that's all you really need. You need to get out there and start testing this challenge to make sure it's connecting, it's landing, and you're getting some sales. So you're not investing all of this time and energy and effort, just like when we're building a course, like we need to make sure we've got that proof first.

Mm hmm, yeah, that's such great advice. Well, I think that, that, you know, you sort of get in also that analysis process, and it's gotta be perfect, and then you just never launch, right? Like, you know, which choice do you want, right? Launch imperfectly, or just never do it, and yeah, so that's such great advice. So then my second question for you is like, what advice do you have if someone's already doing a challenge to try and kinda maximize the amount of sales they're going to get? One of the biggest things that I have heard is that it's super hard to get and keep people's attention. So you want to, you want to maximize the people who are showing up. So what advice do you have for people to, to get them to pull the trigger?

Absolutely. To keep people showing up and to keep them, I mean, engagement's the name of the game, right? Like we need to keep them engaged and paying attention and that comes back down again to the content. A lot of people will go back to prizes and be like, I invest a lot in like prizes or if I give so much away and I'll give gift cards and I'll give a lot of my other like digital products away. That even outside of the challenge world has like, and just corporate America has been proven to only work short term. So those aren't actually like anything that's going to help people remind them to show up and be engaged and participate. It's looking at the content and it's you also being your most authentic self. So that way, they can identify with you, your journey, and the information you're sharing.

Mm-Hmm. Yep. That's great. Yeah. And that's so true, right? It's like, well, if you just throw crap at people, it doesn't actually mean that it's gonna translate into something valuable. So yeah, you heard it from Amanda here. Don't just like throw a bunch of crap out there and hope that that's the thing that's gonna convert them into buyers because it's not so engagement is the name of the game, which if you have listened to this podcast before, you have heard a lot about that and so what's, what's your like number one kind of engagement technique on a challenge?

I really enjoy just connecting with people one on one, and as your challenge grows, that gets harder to do, right? But even if you're able to call a few people out, When you're live, if you can DM a few people and really connect with them on a personal level, take two seconds and go look at their profile and, or like, like a post. It really doesn't take that much to start to see that engagement pull through because they'll circle back and be like, oh, hey, like I'm in that challenge, they just liked my content. And then, you know, people just love to be, you know, Seeing, heard, and recognized. And that's so important, especially digitally, right?

Yep. Yep, for sure. A hundred percent. Awesome. Great advice. Okay, so I'm gonna switch gears a little bit and you can see if you are watching this on YouTube, that both Amanda and I have the same book and we are co-authors in an anthology that we created this year called Dear Female Digital Entrepreneur. And and so we just, we discussed it. I'm Chapter S, Amanda's Chapter U. And and so let's talk a little bit about that because that was a really fun project and it's and obviously it's brought some of us together, which is really fun. So talk a little bit about your chapter, Amanda, and and what's in there. What, what, what did you kind of focus on? And then I'm just interested in, like, how did the experience go for you? Because I think that it was a fun one. I don't know if you've written a book before, but for me, it was, That's sort of my first you know, best selling publishing event. So tell us a little bit about your experience.

Thank you. Yeah. I never thought I was going to write a book. I have an auditory processing disorder that makes it really hard to like push out written content. And so the idea of a book, like was really overwhelming, but in this format with so many other like powerful women and just the way that we like came together, it was just such a fun process and so cool to be able to do and be a part of. So I walked away like just over the... Jenny Hanson Lane was the individual responsible for this, this collaboration. And I'm just such a big fan of hers. And so very grateful for that opportunity and inside my chapter, we dive into a lot of what we talked about today in terms of understanding your sales machine. What does that mean? That's your challenge, right? And so like, let's take a deep dive into that. And again, we use that framework to sign up, show up, and stay and buy. And we talk through some of that. So if you dive in, some of these questions are going to be there. So if you're more of a visual person and you don't want to listen back to some of these questions, go get the book, go dive into that. And then it also dives into more of the meat and potatoes of, of that framework and some really good takeaways as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yes. It was a fun project. And and I found out like anyone can write a chapter. Like it was much more doable than like, I'm going to write, sit down and write an entire book. Writing the chapter was like, Oh, okay. I can do this. And maybe I could do like a couple of chapters. But yeah, it was, I thought it was a great experience as well. So, awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that. We'll put the book link in the show notes because both Amanda and I believe that everyone should have this book on their bookshelf. So, so thank you in advance for you know, contributing to the success of our book. Okay, awesome. So, A couple of more questions for you. One is as a business owner, and especially as a female business owner, what do you, what's like the top advice that you would give someone who was just getting started in this journey?

Sure. I like to use this quote and I think I heard it from Tony Robbins first. And I don't know if he was the originator of the quote, I don't know where it really came from, but I, it was really powerful for me at the time was see things as they are, not worse than they are. I'm just a planner. I like to think 10 steps ahead and also like troubleshoot anything down the line that could go wrong so I can plan against that. and I think as women in particular we have a lot of imposter syndrome, we have a lot of trouble believing in ourselves and so then, that kind of take us down a negative path, rather than just taking a step back, saying okay, these are the facts, all of that other stuff, that negativity where I'm going with this, that's just stories inside my head that's not real data. Let's look at the real data and try to move forward and see like those silver linings, those positive choices, those, this is a new direction I could take this based on this data instead of like, Oh no, I have to pivot again. That sort of thing. That is, I've always found that to be super helpful for myself.

Yeah, that's awesome. And how much do you feel like having your framework, that is defined and something that you can lead from, how much does that help you kind of get rid of that imposter syndrome?

Absolutely. It makes it so that you have that horizon to shoot for, right? You're looking ahead and you're not getting so bogged down in so many little details that we can, right? And then again, if you're just looking at the data, it can help you make more informed decisions opposed to those emotional decisions. Cause you're, you're going through a checklist, you have this framework, right?

Yeah, it's so powerful, awesome. Okay, and then what's like one essential either business tool or book or resource that you can't live without in your business?

So I was really excited when I found it's a software, it's a platform. And I use it in my business and I think anybody can use it in their business for in any sort of capacity. It's called markup.io and it's a way to give feedback on video assets, digital assets, like whatever it is, you can give that feedback and collaborate. And I just think it's the coolest thing. It's taken my challenge cure, that's where I go through and look at your challenge. It's taken it to the next level and just made results so much better because they're physically seeing it. They're seeing the timing, they're seeing the feedback at the right, it's, I can't say enough about it. I think it's amazing.

Yeah, that's, that's awesome. I actually never heard anyone else know about that tool. We use that as well, but yes, the nicest part is that you can actually give the feedback at the actual timestamp so people can see it instead of like a screenshot and then the feedback, like it's just a bit more challenging for people, I think, to, to get get where you're putting the feedback if you don't have that. So that's an awesome tool. I'm really glad that you actually shared that. I, it's, it's funny how some tools we take for granted and we don't even think about how, how much they affect the business. So there you go. You heard it from Amanda and we use it as well, so you should go out and get it because it's, it's awesome. And it's just a, it's not very expensive to have a monthly subscription. It's just what, 10 bucks or

And it's free to a certain point. So if you just keep your upload limit or like, I think there's some features that get taken away, like folders and whatnot or get added. So it's free to a point. So you could use it, test it out, see if you like it. And I found their customer service support to be amazing and they're, I, I really believe in the product and the company. I should become an affiliate

Yeah, yeah. Right? Wait, wait. Hey, yeah, got to go do that. No, but but no, so thank you for sharing that tool. You're actually the first person to share that, which I love. I love, I always ask this question. I always get amazing answers. So I appreciate that so much. Okay. So last question. It's a personal question and and so I'm excited because we're, we're getting a sense of, of who you are from a business perspective and kind of your, your journey through what you have, have done. But you have some pretty cool stories that are just about you personally. So, so tell me about like a crazy thing that you have done in the past to share a little bit more

Sure. So. My husband and I actually got married on a water propelled jet pack, which is kind of wild to think about. And actually my husband and I were talking, we don't usually like tell a lot of people anymore. We've celebrated our 12 year anniversary this year. So it's not like, that it's the first thing that you tell people when you meet them, so some of our neighbors, we've been neighbors for like 2 years, and they're like we didn't know this about you, how come you didn't tell us? I'm like, oh well you know it's not like, what you lead with.

Well, you know, it's just a normal thing.

So yeah that was a pretty wild experience we were, it wasn't like we sought it out it found us. We were engaged in Cancun, Mexico. We had this company. We said we had worked with this company previously. They're now defunct, but we had worked with them in our previous careers and we wanted more of their shirts because they were really soft shirts. And I, my husband was wearing their shirt and when he proposed, we had some photos, so we were going to send it in to try to get some more shirts. And they came back with this crazy idea of getting us hitched by these water propelled jetpacks and it like we took the plunge we dove in and did it and it was amazing.

So were youuboth on your own jetpacks?

Yeah, so if you Google jetpack wedding, you can find pictures of our wedding days and interview. I don't love, I've never been interviewed before this, before that point. So they prepped us, they did a lot of PR stuff, but I was really unprepared. So it's kind of cringy to hear what I said. But we we were on two separate jet packs. We flew out. That was like us walking down the aisle. We landed on a beach. It was in Newport Beach in California. And then we set our vows on the beach and then we flew out and we did this big heart formation and came back in. And when they had like a drone, I'm afraid of heights. So we had to like get up high. And so like, if you watch the videos, you'll see my feet dragging in the water because I was too afraid. We had like an hour to practice the day before it was like wild, but it, it was so fun.

Okay, first, like, I just think that that's so much fun. So first of all, I will tell you, I was engaged in Cozumel. So there you go, we have that in common. But I did not do a jetpack wedding. So, but I, I think that in, and like for the audience, like we're meeting for the first time today, but I, I feel like that probably, speaks a little bit to your your personality in terms of how do you get people to engage in your events is by doing kind of fun stuff like that that's a little bit out of the box. And so that is such a fun story. So thank you for sharing that. For us and, and maybe, maybe we'll dig up that link and put it in the show notes. So another incentive for, for you all to look at the show notes after this episode. Awesome. All right. Well, Amanda, thank you so much for being on the show today. It was a pleasure to have you. Any final words of advice for my audience as you transition off?

Yeah. I always, I mean, Just do it. Life is too short. Don't worry about what anybody else is going to think. Like, go out, do what's going to make you happy, and the rest will just fall into place.

Amazing. Alright, thanks so much for being on the show today, Amanda. We appreciate it, and for everyone listening, have a great day.