Sign up to get updates from us
In this episode of the Creative Collaboration Show, host Chuck Anderson interviews email marketing expert Igor Kheifets. Igor shares his strategies on leveraging big data to identify potential customers and developing irresistible offers. He highlights the value of lead generation, the power of email marketing, and the importance of strategic partnerships in building a successful business. Listeners will gain practical insights into effective email marketing techniques and how to cultivate profitable collaborations.
Igor Kheifets is a leading authority in email marketing and customer acquisition. Using big data, he identifies potential customers who are ready to make a purchase and runs dynamic promotions to capture their interest. Igor's expertise in testing and refining offers has helped him redefine and develop front and back-end offers, resulting in increased customer value. With a focus on lead generation and strategic partnerships, Igor has built a thriving business and is passionate about helping others achieve their goals.
Timestamped Key Points:
[00:03:45] Leveraging Big Data for Targeted Marketing:
- Igor discusses how using big data helps identify customers who are ready to make a purchase.
- By running dynamic promotions, he entices potential customers who may have missed the initial offer.
[00:12:15] Developing Irresistible Offers That Customers Cannot Resist:
- Igor shares his strategies for creating valuable offers that customers find impossible to resist.
- He emphasizes the importance of testing different offers to find the winners and losers.
[00:21:38] The Power of Front and Back-End Offers:
- Igor explains how upselling and offering lifetime memberships greatly increase average customer value.
- Incorporating smart offers in the back end can significantly increase profit without changing the upfront aspect.
[00:33:02] The Role of Lead Generation in Sales and Conversions:
- Igor highlights the significance of lead generation in cultivating relationships with potential customers.
- He emphasizes that leads and contacts are more valuable to a business than its products.
[00:40:20] Harnessing the Power of Strategic Partnerships:
- Igor discusses the importance of forming strategic partnerships in the business world.
- He explains how collaborating with partners in the same market but non-competing can lead to significant growth and referrals.
Must-Read Book Recommendation:
In this episode, Igor recommends "The Listen Lifestyle: Confessions of an Email Millionaire" as a must-read for anyone interested in lead generation and growing their business. The book shares Igor's journey with list-building and its importance as a form of lead generation. It also covers how having a large email list makes various aspects of business easier, such as making money, launching projects, collaborations, and getting joint venture partners.
Guest's Website and Links:
To learn more about Igor Kheifets and his effective email marketing strategies, visit his website at https://listbuildinglifestyle.com/. Connect with Igor on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/igor-kheifets-891411163.
Was this episode helpful?
Please leave us a review and subscribe to the show to be notified of future episodes.
Until next time, keep moving forward!
Chuck Anderson,
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the show. This
Speaker:is the creative collaboration show with Chuck Anderson, and
Speaker:I have another amazing guest for you. And before I
Speaker:introduce him, I just wanna remind everybody, you know, our theme here
Speaker:in every show, we do talk a little bit about collaborations
Speaker:and joint ventures and how those are the key
Speaker:to not just growth in your business, but in a lot of times,
Speaker:exponential growth. And, you know, we're we really encourage people to
Speaker:move away from this idea of, you know, I'm a solopreneur. I'm doing
Speaker:things myself. And as so you know, we're very, very pro collaboration,
Speaker:very pro joint venture partnership. Well, today's
Speaker:episode is going to be entirely dedicated to that
Speaker:because our guest here today has really embraced that in his
Speaker:business. Got multiple ways that he collaborates and
Speaker:partners with people. And so I've we've been trying to get
Speaker:this scheduled for a while. We're finally here.
Speaker:So my guest today is Igor Kefetz.
Speaker:Welcome to the show, Igor. For having me, man.
Speaker:Appreciate it, and hope to inspire the listeners
Speaker:for more partnerships and collaborations. I'm sure you will.
Speaker:And I know, you know, just in our pre chat and when we spoke
Speaker:earlier this year, it's pretty obvious that, you know, you've embraced
Speaker:this in your business. You've been able to to to make that work
Speaker:for you. So, yeah, so let's let's dive in and
Speaker:and and share with everybody. But, you know, I think the the place to
Speaker:start is let everybody know a little bit more about you. Who are who are
Speaker:you and and a little bit more about your business, and we'll go from there.
Speaker:So I help people make money with e farming. We have a coaching,
Speaker:mentoring program, a bunch of products and services in the make
Speaker:money online space. They range from as little as 10
Speaker:dollars to as high as, you know, thousands of dollars. And
Speaker:you know, basically, you can call me an information marketer,
Speaker:coach consultant, whatever. And a big part of my business
Speaker:today is creative collaborations
Speaker:that allow me to have just an automated stream
Speaker:of leads coming in on daily, weekly, monthly basis.
Speaker:In fact, just as we're filming this, I'm doing a
Speaker:collaboration this week. I actually got several going on, but 1 of them is, you
Speaker:know, just stands out so much. That I've received
Speaker:in the last 24 hours over 800 leads from
Speaker:just 1 collaboration coming in. And I
Speaker:didn't have to, like, be there, put in the work, fly
Speaker:out to a seminar, speak on a stage. It just it's happening
Speaker:automatically without me being involved. And I think that's a tremendous
Speaker:advantage because it it creates a lot of space
Speaker:for me to just focus on growing my business, further developing my
Speaker:products rather than having to be stuck in the trenches, you know,
Speaker:doing the guerilla marketing as I used to do when I was
Speaker:A11 man show. Amazing.
Speaker:Well, yeah, definitely looking forward to diving
Speaker:into that. By the way, you mentioned the e farming thing. We've got a link
Speaker:to that beneath the video if anybody wants to check out and see
Speaker:what that's all about. It's a it's a great offer. I I think you touch
Speaker:on something that's really important, and I think why
Speaker:collaborations have played such a big role in my business as well.
Speaker:But, you know, getting 800 leads in a single campaign.
Speaker:I mean, the the, you know, the the challenge that
Speaker:a lot of business owners have, I mean, they'll say, okay. Well, what do you
Speaker:need in your business? Well, I need more sales. And where am I gonna get
Speaker:more sales from? Well, I need more leads. And some
Speaker:people say they have a sales problem, but they don't really have a sales problem.
Speaker:What they have is a leads problem. Either in generating them or
Speaker:following them up. So how important is that in your
Speaker:business, that generation of new leads con continually?
Speaker:Well, it's pretty important. I think most of everything that I
Speaker:do is usually geared towards lead generation
Speaker:I don't think there's anything that I will do that will result in 1
Speaker:time sale or just an immediate sale without capturing the lead.
Speaker:It'll be always proceeded with getting an email address
Speaker:or or, you know, getting some kind of contact established because
Speaker:Over the years, I just learned that you get better conversions this way.
Speaker:Plus, you know, many people, should I say most
Speaker:people, they don't buy on the first exposure with you. You know, there is
Speaker:probably a 10 percent or so of your market who
Speaker:are, like, ready to go now, and then they know what they want. And as
Speaker:long as you just stand up, raise your hand, and say, I offer
Speaker:service XYZ. You know, they'll they'll reach out to you, but you know, most
Speaker:people, there's a for for them, there's a timeline. You almost wanna think about it
Speaker:like like strawberries. You know? Some of them are green. Some of them are, like,
Speaker:getting red, but not really. And some of them are ripe for the
Speaker:taking. And so when you lead generate rather than just sell sell
Speaker:sell, you're getting the benefit of almost cultivating this
Speaker:strawberry bush or strawberry field where they're
Speaker:just slowly percolating and getting to condition until they're ready to be
Speaker:to be picked. So I I agree. Lead generation is
Speaker:absolutely tremendous. And even when I set up any sort
Speaker:of collaborations or partnerships, I always think in terms of
Speaker:equity. Like, if I own the lead, I have equity
Speaker:in my business. In fact, I would argue that you know, my my
Speaker:leads and my list of contacts, my database
Speaker:is way more valuable to me than, you know, for example, my
Speaker:products. Because, you know, if I lose my leads but keep my
Speaker:products, I'll have to be rebuilding the database. But if I lose my products
Speaker:but have my leads, I can actually launch something within just a
Speaker:few days. In fact, they can probably launch something without building the product first
Speaker:to get paid upfront and then build it once I got paid.
Speaker:Mhmm. Yeah. That's a huge advantage when you do have
Speaker:that foundation of leads, and I would say also the
Speaker:ability to bring new and fresh leads in
Speaker:And and so which I wanna talk about a
Speaker:little bit more. I mean, that's where I think
Speaker:collaborations and partnerships really impact my business,
Speaker:and I'll get you to weigh in on that. But first, I just because
Speaker:Because you do have that base of leads, and and you mentioned something really important,
Speaker:and that is probably only 10 percent are ready to go now. What
Speaker:do you do with the rest of them? What are what are what are you
Speaker:finding is the like, what's the time
Speaker:frame from, you know, Okay. So they're not gonna buy
Speaker:right away to the point where they are gonna buy. And and and so what
Speaker:are you finding is most effective for you in that? So the
Speaker:thinking is we we really don't know when they're they're
Speaker:gonna be ready to buy. But the assumption is also that
Speaker:at any given point within my big data There's gonna be a number of people
Speaker:who are. So if this week they chose not to act in a promotion, I'll
Speaker:just run the next promotion next week. It could be for a different product. It
Speaker:could be same product with a different bundle. Like, if my
Speaker:program is, say, a thousand dollars and they didn't go for it this week,
Speaker:next week, I'll run a promotion where you know, it's a it's a
Speaker:lighter version, but it sells for 500. Or
Speaker:maybe it's a bundle of 3 of my you know,
Speaker:flagship products bundled together into 1
Speaker:price. And, you know, I would basically try and come up with
Speaker:creative ways to make offers.
Speaker:That's, I think, that's the what following up with people
Speaker:is all about. It's really not about telling them about your kids. Or telling
Speaker:them about your hobby that you like to serve on the weekends.
Speaker:It's it's not about, you know, putting yourself out there. It's more about,
Speaker:okay, last week's offer, some bought, others
Speaker:didn't. This week, what sort of offer can we put together in front of
Speaker:them that they would see it and be like, wow, that's a really good
Speaker:offer. I'd be stupid not to get it. Right? And so these
Speaker:these are some of the lessons that I learned when I started my agency.
Speaker:And, you know, basically, what I started doing at some point is I
Speaker:started just sending out daily email. And in that daily
Speaker:email, there would always be the same offer for my agency and be like, okay.
Speaker:Reach out to us. Reach out to us. Reach out to us. And that's effective.
Speaker:But then I said, Can we mix it up? And
Speaker:I started putting together these unique promotions,
Speaker:unique, if you will, packages. So if the initial offer was
Speaker:we're gonna do this service for you, then next week, I I put
Speaker:together, you know, an offer for, okay, get this service and get this
Speaker:amazing bonus for free. So all of a sudden, the offer
Speaker:became a little bit sexier, and I strategically made
Speaker:an effort to to
Speaker:make the bonuses almost more valuable or more
Speaker:desirable than the service itself. And and
Speaker:by doing so, by driving the premium first, I was able
Speaker:to substantially boost the revenues of my
Speaker:agency. Of course, what this also does is you
Speaker:end up testing lots of different offers, lots and lots and lots of them.
Speaker:And so before you know it, you start you'll get a few losers, of course,
Speaker:but you also get a few winners. And when you get a few winning offers,
Speaker:you can actually look at these offers, look at the statistics,
Speaker:and redefine or or redevelop your front end offer
Speaker:altogether. Or maybe even incorporate that offer in your
Speaker:back end. So once somebody becomes a customer, you can increase
Speaker:overall customer value by making an additional offer right
Speaker:away. So this was, for example, the way I discovered that
Speaker:when I sold the initial offer in my agency, for the time it
Speaker:was 787 dollars. Don't ask me why
Speaker:that price, it's just you know, I was, like, raising the price until I hit
Speaker:a resistance. Right? We discovered that we could
Speaker:also upsell with a 4 97 a month,
Speaker:and we had about 20, maybe 30 percent of people take that. So all of
Speaker:a sudden, the average customer value increased dramatically, and we didn't have to
Speaker:drive more traffic. But then, you know, we started testing some additional stuff,
Speaker:and we found out that if after this second offer for 4
Speaker:97 a month, we offered a 1 time
Speaker:a 1 time offer where they could pay a 1 time payment
Speaker:of 3000 dollars 29 97
Speaker:for a, quote, unquote, a lifetime membership. Mhmm.
Speaker:Another 25 percent of the people who took the the previous offer
Speaker:would take that. So all of a sudden, you know, you're getting 1 sale that
Speaker:turns into an additional money, but then also into big lump
Speaker:sum where I think about 70 percent of it was profit.
Speaker:And that changes the the
Speaker:mathematics in your business Imagine what you could do
Speaker:if without changing anything up front,
Speaker:you simply were able to get an extra 50 percent
Speaker:for your bottom line just by incorporating smart offers in the back end. And,
Speaker:again, the reason it happened was because I tested offers to
Speaker:the people who didn't buy right away, Now what's really funny is that I got
Speaker:this book. It's called The Liston Lifestyle, Confessions of an Email
Speaker:Millionaire. And, you know, a lot of people tell me, oh, Igor, that's a funny
Speaker:title. Well, what they don't know is that this title
Speaker:is a winning subject line to people
Speaker:who didn't buy my product. I was just looking at the open rates I was
Speaker:getting, and this 1 got the the the highest open rates, which, you know,
Speaker:which how I decided to make it a title for my book.
Speaker:Wow. I love that. So so and I've
Speaker:met so many book authors. You know? They're brainstorming
Speaker:titles and they're workshopping titles. And I love what
Speaker:you've done. It's like, you know, you go back to your emails
Speaker:and say, what words, what
Speaker:language performed the best, which ones got the
Speaker:highest response, and then you make that your book title. Yeah. The idea
Speaker:came from Tim Ferriss. I think I read somewhere that Tim Ferriss, the author of
Speaker:the 4 hour work week, said that the 4 hour work week was a winning
Speaker:Edwards headline, I believe. So when I
Speaker:read it and I said, well, you know, I don't run too many AdWords ads,
Speaker:but I do email a lot. So Let's see what
Speaker:subject line 1, and it did. And I said, you know what? I like
Speaker:the creativity to sit here and brainstorm titles plus I can be
Speaker:brainstorming titles for the for you know, until next year, and I still still
Speaker:won't know. So I might as well go with with the numbers.
Speaker:Amazing. Yeah. That's a that's a great thing to do. Now talk
Speaker:about frequency of email a little bit because 1 of the things that I think
Speaker:helped you to come to that is you said you were you're
Speaker:emailing daily -- Yep. -- similar offer, but then you tweaked it and
Speaker:it's like, okay. And then you're offering different bonuses in that.
Speaker:Yeah. And and so what did you because I have
Speaker:conversations with people all the time and sometimes arguments
Speaker:about email frequency. How
Speaker:much is too much and how much is too little with -- I think
Speaker:the the baseline as to how much is too much shifted over the
Speaker:years. Because when I started with email,
Speaker:if I told anyone that I was emailing twice a day, I
Speaker:would be immediately labeled as a spammer, and nobody wants to touch me with a
Speaker:stick. But these days, I know a lot of people who email
Speaker:their list way more than twice a day. In fact, some days, I'll
Speaker:even email 6 times if it's the last
Speaker:day of a promotion. So the deadline day, I'd be mainly very
Speaker:hard. And what's really interesting is that usually half the sales from a
Speaker:promotion would come from the last day, which means on
Speaker:that last day, the closer you get to the deadline, for your promotion, you can
Speaker:actually hit the list harder and the list doesn't mind.
Speaker:So to answer your question, Unfortunately, there is no 1 size
Speaker:fits all solution. But if I had to come up with a 1 size fits
Speaker:all, I'd say you're safe to email every day. Whether you're a
Speaker:lawyer, a consultant, a a teacher,
Speaker:an educator, a service provider, a software, a content
Speaker:newsletter, or whatever. People have high tolerance
Speaker:for email these days. They prefer to receive
Speaker:offers in email. There's been many studies done. By Adobe and
Speaker:other big companies, Nielsen, etcetera, that that show
Speaker:us that people prefer to be pitched in email. That's
Speaker:why they invented the promotions tab, and people actually go
Speaker:into the promotions tab. And I know. There
Speaker:was a point in time, I think, 2 years ago when I became a little
Speaker:bit worried about the promotions tab. I was like, oh, my email is going to
Speaker:the promotions tab. Wonder how much more money would I be making if I went
Speaker:to the primary. And I actually found a way to get my emails out of
Speaker:the promotion step and into the primary folder. And you
Speaker:know what I discovered? My open rates went up,
Speaker:but my sales didn't. Mhmm. Now with this, then this
Speaker:was very confusing at first. What I concluded
Speaker:is that, apparently, people actually do go
Speaker:and check out the promotions tab when they're in a mood to buy something.
Speaker:So even if they see your stuff while not in that mood,
Speaker:they don't necessarily wanna buy more, But even
Speaker:if you do land in the promotions tab, no big deal. People still
Speaker:go and check out your emails and read your emails and click on your links.
Speaker:They they prefer to have that control to say, you know
Speaker:what, I don't wanna be pitched now. But in 3 hours, when
Speaker:they feel like it, they'll they'll log on and read your email with a
Speaker:special offer. So, yeah, at least once a day,
Speaker:you're safe. And and what you can do, you can actually use an approach
Speaker:that I call the castaway emails approach where each email is
Speaker:basically separate from the rest, and you're almost, like, sharing your thoughts for
Speaker:the day. Whether you email in the morning, in the afternoon, doesn't matter.
Speaker:You sort of send out this informational, but at the same time, a little bit
Speaker:entertaining email, almost treating it like like talk radio
Speaker:where, you know, you, you know, shows like, I don't know, Howard
Speaker:Stern or, you know, shows like that, where you can just
Speaker:share your thoughts and feelings, but find a way to tie
Speaker:that in to to your offer. So for example, if you're
Speaker:a consultant to CEOs, and your list is
Speaker:or people who follow you are CEOs. And, you know, you can talk
Speaker:about a day in the life of a frustrated CEO. You
Speaker:know? You're getting to work. You're all fired up to get
Speaker:shit done. And then, you know, as soon as you hit the office, You
Speaker:got 15 people pitting you up. Everyone's got a fire you need
Speaker:to put out. There's 3 documents waiting for your signature.
Speaker:You know, there's a lawyer on the phone about this, and there's a marketing campaign
Speaker:that went to the crapper over there. And, oh, we just lost our hosting
Speaker:account. And so all of a sudden, all all the plans that you had
Speaker:went down the drain. Right? So if you're a CEO, then you can
Speaker:relate. Well, guess what? I got this amazing program.
Speaker:It's called, you know, CEO productivity x,
Speaker:and, you know, it's only 1 97, and it's gonna show you my
Speaker:methodology to do y zed. That's an email. Right? It's it's
Speaker:basically sort of reflecting the
Speaker:frustration of your market, but in the form of a story.
Speaker:Right? That could be an email, very easy to write, very entertaining. People
Speaker:who are CEOs who can relate to the story will actually find it
Speaker:enjoyable. They'll be actually reading it, and be, like, nodding with their head, and
Speaker:they'll be way more receptive to click on the link to check out your course.
Speaker:And you can you can do it pretty much every day.
Speaker:Yeah. That's that's a a great I think 1 of the
Speaker:takeaways that I just got from what you were saying is if
Speaker:you if you make the content engaging
Speaker:and relevant, that's they're they're gonna get a lot more of it. They're
Speaker:gonna be a lot more respect. Receptive. I also love what you said about the
Speaker:promotions folder because, you know, I I found myself having that
Speaker:same thoughts. It's like, ah, the promotions folder, but it's not the primary
Speaker:But I think you're right. There's a mindset difference
Speaker:when people are actually clicking on the promotions
Speaker:tab, and because now you know that type of email you're
Speaker:reading are promotions, and so you're not rejecting
Speaker:it. And I love it. And I I love that idea. So -- Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker:And, again, like, there's been a lot of talk and fear about the
Speaker:promotion step over the years, but you know, if if you ask
Speaker:anyone who emails a lot, you'll see that it's it's just a lot
Speaker:of a lot of noise, really. Because people do go
Speaker:into the promotion step. And I'll I'll go as far as saying
Speaker:it is better to land in the promotion step than it
Speaker:is to go to the spam box But if you're in the promotions tab,
Speaker:you're good. You actually don't need to worry too much about being
Speaker:in the primary or going to the social tab or whatever. Because when
Speaker:people get an email and goes to the promotions, there's still gonna be that orange
Speaker:thing, that little orange tag on top of it.
Speaker:So the the OCD will force people to go and click on it and check
Speaker:it out. It's just they won't be misguided expectations with regards
Speaker:to, is this a promotion or not? They'll know. And they'll approach it with that
Speaker:same mindset. It's the same as we when we run ads on social
Speaker:networks, for example. You know, do people know these are ads?
Speaker:Yeah. No one's trying to hide that fact. Right? It says either sponsored or
Speaker:skip ad. So that's okay. But if the ad delivers the message at the
Speaker:right time to the right person, then, you know, it gets us gets the job
Speaker:done. Absolutely. Well, obviously, our theme
Speaker:here is collaborations and partnership And, you know, I wanted
Speaker:to ask you. I know that, you know, we've talked
Speaker:about generate lead generation
Speaker:list growth. How important
Speaker:are collaborations and partnerships in terms of your
Speaker:overall lead generation and list growth. I mean, it sounds like you've got other
Speaker:things going on, social media, maybe some advertising. And
Speaker:I know that you're you've got an affiliate program and and do JV
Speaker:partnership as well. Talk a little bit about collaborations maybe in
Speaker:the overall mix and then how important they are to the, you know, the
Speaker:growth of your business. Collaborations are a big part of my
Speaker:business. I'd say about 40 percent of my business is done through collaborations. And
Speaker:what I'm what I can also attest to is that
Speaker:I I'd say the highest quality customers usually
Speaker:come from a a collaboration of some sort. Could be somebody
Speaker:who listens to a podcast episode like this. Could be somebody
Speaker:who gets on a webinar that a joint
Speaker:venture partner of mine you know, promoted. So
Speaker:this transfer credibility, I think, is really powerful. So just in the in
Speaker:the in the landscape of of lead generation,
Speaker:When you've got a consistent stream of
Speaker:leads coming through a collaborative relationship, you know, be
Speaker:the quid pro quo or maybe you're paying commissions for referrals.
Speaker:What you'll notice is that getting an endorsement
Speaker:lead, meaning that, you know, your JV partner actually endorsed you to
Speaker:that particular group of people, makes pretty much
Speaker:everything else much easier.
Speaker:Because if I take just pure numbers, like
Speaker:average customer value, average order size, average
Speaker:conversion, I can clearly tell that my paid
Speaker:traffic generation efforts, right, they fall
Speaker:short of the joint venture lead generation.
Speaker:Anytime I talk to my sales guy, for example. Right?
Speaker:Because he only gets to talk to people who started escalating the back end. You
Speaker:know? Anytime he sees that we had, like, a great JV and had
Speaker:a bunch of people come in, he's, like, excited because he knows
Speaker:these are gonna be easy people to talk to. They're gonna be very
Speaker:easy to get to comply with our procedures and protocols.
Speaker:Is gonna be way less skepticism for him to overcome,
Speaker:way fewer objections to handle, and way
Speaker:more willingness to spend
Speaker:money. And as a business owner, you know, I do have to look at that
Speaker:metric. Yes. It's also about helping people. It's also about you know,
Speaker:the the the rosy and pink thoughts of making the world a better place. But
Speaker:at the end of the day, when when you got a couple hundred thousand dollars
Speaker:of you know, payroll expenses, software bills, etcetera. I
Speaker:I have to look at the numbers. And, you know,
Speaker:III would much rather spend more time
Speaker:and more effort and and cultivate relationships over the course of the
Speaker:next, say, 3 years to create a sustainable
Speaker:partner driven lead generation
Speaker:than to get stuck with
Speaker:I I'd say paid traffic leads that are,
Speaker:like, less trusting. You know what I mean? Because a lot of these
Speaker:pay traffic leads are you know, they're still skeptical. They're not sure
Speaker:can they really truly believe you. They're sort of like excited start to take
Speaker:it, you know, to to look. But at the same time, to still have
Speaker:a a healthy degree of skepticism there And you you can
Speaker:tell by all the numbers, whether it's refund rates or the amount of money they
Speaker:spend on the first order, how quickly they escalate to the second order. I I
Speaker:think I think, you know, JV
Speaker:lead flow is unmatched. It's just the absolute best you can hope to
Speaker:get. Aside from people, who you'd call upstream
Speaker:leads as my friend, Ben Settle, calls them. So people who proactively
Speaker:seek you out in some way they kinda find ways to get
Speaker:into your world without being necessarily pushed into it. You know? They'll
Speaker:hear your name on a podcast. They'll Google your name, find your website
Speaker:from 10 years ago, get on get on some page that you'd forgot
Speaker:even exists, those would be the absolute best leads because
Speaker:they've invested to get onto your world. The next
Speaker:best thing is an endorsement from a joint venture partner. Really,
Speaker:nothing comes close. Yeah. I you know, I have to
Speaker:agree with the campaigns that we have. I mean, they're they're so much
Speaker:easier to convert Their attitude is different. Their mindset is
Speaker:different. That it's almost like and sometimes
Speaker:it's not positioned as a third door third party endorsement, but
Speaker:it's it's perceived, you know, it's perceived by them that way,
Speaker:and so they come with that open mind. When compared to
Speaker:something like a lead generated through a Facebook ad where, you
Speaker:know, they weren't really looking for you. They were looking for what their
Speaker:mom had for lunch or whatever. And and so we interrupted
Speaker:with them an ad, and and they came in the door. There's no
Speaker:relationship. And so In fact, in a lot of
Speaker:our campaigns, we don't even run the ads anymore. We just go all in
Speaker:with affiliate partner traffic because because of all the
Speaker:reasons we just said. So so, yeah, I and
Speaker:I kinda knew when I answered the when I asked the question that it's a
Speaker:big part of your business. So So my follow-up
Speaker:question to that is, what do you look for in a JV
Speaker:partner or a collaborator because I know that that's
Speaker:something that you guys are actively doing every day.
Speaker:Yeah. Absolutely. So first and foremost, we're
Speaker:obviously looking to see if they have reach or an audience because
Speaker:that's what makes that GB partner most attractive, is can they
Speaker:bring the heat? The other thing that I I would say I'm looking for
Speaker:is how are they generating deletes. Now it's not
Speaker:necessarily something I can know ahead of time or know about
Speaker:every single 1 of them. But sometimes you you get a hunch
Speaker:because every now and again, I'll I'll have a GED partner whose
Speaker:audience just isn't a fit to the kind of
Speaker:products that I that I sell. For example, if they're if they're promoting
Speaker:a thousand dollar offer that's sold through a webinar.
Speaker:But I know that predominantly, their list or audience
Speaker:is used to buy, you know, 20 dollars a month pieces of software,
Speaker:then it's gonna be quite difficult for me to convert them. I'm sure I can
Speaker:get a few sales, but it's not gonna be the same result as if,
Speaker:you know, a JV partner who is cons
Speaker:constantly conditions his audience to buy through webinars. Can
Speaker:generate for me. So so that's probably the
Speaker:second thing. The third thing that's a bit of a nice have really
Speaker:is cloud. So in other words, do they have a
Speaker:reputation? Do people know them? And I'm talking people in the
Speaker:industry because what I found is,
Speaker:you know, the joint ventures seen or or getting partnerships is a lot
Speaker:like high school. Like, if you hang out with the
Speaker:cool kids, all the other kids wanna hang out with you. So, you know, that's
Speaker:why when we were able to secure partners like, for example, the
Speaker:Rigidad company, who ran our offer, you know, I immediately went on
Speaker:and put their information on my, you know, recruitment
Speaker:page because, you know, like, if somebody's looking over, And let's
Speaker:say they're not big even if they're, like, small time. If they see that I
Speaker:work with guys, like, over at Bridgeport, I mean, it's
Speaker:like, okay. So Igor, you know, is this somebody? He's got
Speaker:something going on, so they automatically want to work with me
Speaker:just because of that. Or if they were considering This is like,
Speaker:you know, kinda tipping them off off the fence, if you will. So
Speaker:that's another thing that I would actually love to have in an ideal GV
Speaker:partner is somebody whose name carries value to other
Speaker:joint venture partners because if I think long term, which I usually
Speaker:do, I think of equity in every sense, So if I've
Speaker:invested into building a relationship with a new JV partner, and,
Speaker:obviously, I also have to invest to maintain that relationship
Speaker:then I want to make sure that there's not only the direct and
Speaker:immediate impact that that I'll experience such as them
Speaker:promoting my offers, but also the indirect
Speaker:where okay. So maybe the joint venture with them wasn't
Speaker:necessarily a big hit, but it is because
Speaker:I am working with them. This other JV partner actually
Speaker:spotted me too. And this happens all the time.
Speaker:Like, whenever I would get a a big JV partner,
Speaker:somebody, like, who's, you know, a top in the industry,
Speaker:Within, I don't know, within 10 days, I get at least
Speaker:1 message on on email or WhatsApp or something. Some
Speaker:hey. So I I saw that so and so mailed
Speaker:e farming. That's that's cool. I was like, yeah. That's really cool.
Speaker:Here's the here's the stats. Like, here's what they made. It's
Speaker:like, oh, cool. Cool. Cool. Well, send send me the send me the JV docs.
Speaker:Send send me more information. I I might hit that And I swear, the amount
Speaker:of times that happened to me in the last couple years is is ridiculous. Like,
Speaker:they everyone's spying on everybody, and I'm pretty sure that's true for every
Speaker:industry too. Because, you know, the riches are in the niches.
Speaker:So, like, I'm I'm assuming that, you know, I'm in the make money
Speaker:align niche, and there's probably about 350, maybe maybe
Speaker:500, you know, partners in this niche. And if you're in the financial
Speaker:space or weight loss or alternative health or something.
Speaker:There's also probably, like, a handful of players that everyone's watching. So as
Speaker:soon as you get 1 player, to work with you or, you know, everyone else
Speaker:kinda shows up, right, at your doorstep and you're like, hey. I was
Speaker:I was just thinking about you the other day. Let's let's get in a cult.
Speaker:Your name just came up in a conversation. I hear that all the
Speaker:time too. Yeah. It's amazing.
Speaker:The amount of clout that that that actually
Speaker:adds. And, you know, to your point,
Speaker:when you're having the conversations, yeah, they kind of reject
Speaker:it the first time. But now then they see this
Speaker:evidence Like, tell me about this thing again. What is this going on? Like
Speaker:-- Yeah. Exactly. Right? And so, yeah, I've had that exact
Speaker:same thing happen to me. So Well, I love it. And, you
Speaker:know, again, you know, it's a JV conversation
Speaker:is how you and I met. And so not only does
Speaker:it help to build your business, but you get to meet really amazing, cool
Speaker:people as well. And I I think, you know, 1 of the
Speaker:things I always tell people is patience. With those its relationship building.
Speaker:Yes. Affiliate and and and promotions is there's
Speaker:a transaction to it so it can be very transactional.
Speaker:But thinking big picture is, you know, treating people right.
Speaker:And, you know, if if something's not the right fit
Speaker:today. It might be tomorrow. And so to
Speaker:put more emphasis on the relationship,
Speaker:than the transaction. Both are important, but, you
Speaker:know, that's that's been our philosophy with it. So -- Yeah. And and if I
Speaker:recall, the first conversation we had you know, it was it was the case of,
Speaker:you know, I was like, hey. You know, here's my thing. And you're like,
Speaker:yeah. But it's not a good fit. And, you know, being able to just take
Speaker:that and be like, okay. Not a good fit. No problem. And but
Speaker:maintain the relationship is first of the mature thing to do.
Speaker:Because I wasn't always like that. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker:Early on when I I used to take this personal
Speaker:personally, when my with my first affiliate program, it was a very cheap
Speaker:program too. I think it was something like 17 dollars, and I was
Speaker:paying a hundred percent commission trying to attract affiliates. I remember this 1
Speaker:guy looked at and and said something like, yeah. I don't
Speaker:wanna rot it. And I I actually blocked him.
Speaker:Like -- How dare you do run by promotion? Yeah. How dare you? This is
Speaker:the best offer ever. What are you you're still gonna see it. See it.
Speaker:But what I learned is is this. And this is something I learned
Speaker:probably over the last 3 years more so than before
Speaker:First off, there's it's not always the right time. Sometimes you can
Speaker:have a great offer, but they might be focused on working on
Speaker:a launch. Right? And and right now, they're not thinking about, you know,
Speaker:mailing anything. Other times, it could be just a a
Speaker:bad fit for the audience. Like, if I'm approaching with my e farming
Speaker:offer, somebody with a personal development list, you know, they're making a
Speaker:judgment call that, you know what? I don't wanna send a business opportunity to
Speaker:offer to a list of people who are into
Speaker:NLP. Right? It's just net it's just a judgment call
Speaker:specifically. Other times, They just don't like you as a person
Speaker:or at least haven't had the chance to like you as a person, so you
Speaker:need a little bit more time to cultivate the relationship. And this happened to
Speaker:me many, many times, maybe because of my Israeli slash
Speaker:Ukrainian upbringing, whatever, like, a very direct in the way I
Speaker:communicate. And, again, not everyone's cup of tea, and that's cool.
Speaker:But then, you know, I would have a conversation with somebody, not a good
Speaker:fit. Few months go by, we meet at a seminar. We go to,
Speaker:like, a, like, a seminar in the industry. All of a sudden, you
Speaker:know, we sit down, have a drink, or just chat, and
Speaker:experiencing each other in person sparks a different,
Speaker:you know, brain response or chemicals go off or
Speaker:whatever, and and and the conversation naturally flows into something
Speaker:like, you know what? You and me should do something together. Right? It
Speaker:happens all the time. Other times, they like the offer.
Speaker:Like I said, timing may not be perfect, or other times it could be a
Speaker:model difference. So for example, if my model
Speaker:requires you to mail for my webinar
Speaker:for 7 days, but your model actually had this
Speaker:happen, is exchanging 2 emails.
Speaker:And I have to send and these emails have to go out at the same
Speaker:time on certain dates. For example, like, on the
Speaker:second of the month and on the 20 first. Right? And that's like the model
Speaker:that they're doing. It's it's not gonna be a fit, and that's and
Speaker:that's perfectly fine. So I think the lesson I learned
Speaker:the lessons I learned about cultivating
Speaker:relationships and partnerships is, a, never take it personally.
Speaker:Never taken no personally ever. Because
Speaker:99 percent of the time, it's really not a value. It it really
Speaker:is. 1 time, 1 percent probably about you. They probably hate you. But
Speaker:99 percent of the time, it's really not about you. It's a model
Speaker:thing. It's a timing thing. You know, they could be just going through a rough
Speaker:batch with their email software that's not delivering
Speaker:emails, could be anything. And and they usually don't communicate
Speaker:openly about it either. It's something you sort of discover
Speaker:3 months later in a different conversation. And the second
Speaker:thing is you have to be very, very flexible. Because
Speaker:while the JV partner is mailing for you or promoting your
Speaker:stuff, it is up to you besides making them
Speaker:a lot of money with a great offer, it's also up to you to
Speaker:adjust your operations
Speaker:to fit their operations. So if they've got
Speaker:this mindset or or system in place where they will
Speaker:only promote 1 partner per month because the other 3
Speaker:weeks or the other mailing windows, they're promoting something else.
Speaker:They're promoting their own products or whatever. You have to be flexible and say,
Speaker:Okay. Well, if your next opening is 6 month from today,
Speaker:sure. Let's book it 6 month from today. You know, you can't insist on saying,
Speaker:no. No. No. No. I I We have to do it in the next 2
Speaker:weeks or it's off. Right? Because then you'll be a douchebag.
Speaker:So, you know, you are coming in almost it's almost like you're coming into their
Speaker:home So you don't really get to impose your
Speaker:rules. Right? You you know? So if if they want you to take shoes off
Speaker:when you get get in and, you know, put on the pair of, like,
Speaker:hygiene slippers. You're doing that, then you're saying, please, and thank
Speaker:you. And you're, you know, and the they offer you milk and cookies. You take
Speaker:them because You know? They are doing you a favor
Speaker:for running your offer. That's that's how I see it. So
Speaker:as a result, I had to get flexible.
Speaker:Some partners, you know, they're like, I say, well, we got this really cool webinar
Speaker:you can mail. And they're like, Yeah. We don't do webinars. We don't
Speaker:mail webinars. Now at first, I was, like, taking it back because, like, why
Speaker:wouldn't you even make more money? But they're like, well, we don't
Speaker:just not our model. We only mailed VSLs. Mhmm.
Speaker:Okay. So I went ahead and I created VSL just for them.
Speaker:And You know, that was okay. Another affiliate actually
Speaker:approached me, and this was tremendous. I I feel very lucky to
Speaker:have an an affiliate like that. They basically
Speaker:saw my offer on a paid ad. Then they approached me
Speaker:and said, hey, I'd like to run this. And I like
Speaker:to, you know, run it on cold ads and pay for the ad spend
Speaker:myself. Can we work out a deal?
Speaker:I was like, wow. Okay. Sure. What's the deal? And they're
Speaker:like, well, we need to recover the ad spend. So, you know, give us
Speaker:cost per action. So if we refer a sale to your product, you pay
Speaker:us this much for sale, and that's actually more than the sale price.
Speaker:Now I look at their proposal, I look at my cost per sale from
Speaker:my ads, and I'm like, done. I'll be basically
Speaker:getting customers at a slight loss But I'll be getting customers
Speaker:automatically without having to run the ads or put the money up front. So the
Speaker:affiliate actually carries all the risk and is generating me buyers for
Speaker:my business and a teeny teeny tiny loss.
Speaker:I grabbed by both hands, got my team. Okay. You see this
Speaker:guy? We build him a replica of our business.
Speaker:Now go. 7 days later, he's got his own thing.
Speaker:You need to install a pixel? Yes. Give me the pixel. I'll put in the
Speaker:pixel. You need me to modify the copy. You want me to reschedule the VSL.
Speaker:You want me to create a new capture page. You want me to write 15
Speaker:headlines? No problem. Want me to redo the the follow-up sequence? Yes.
Speaker:So just earlier today, actually, he requested a new VSL
Speaker:So I did it. I I shot a Nuvia sale 9 minutes long. It's
Speaker:like, here you go. Do you like it? It's like, yeah. I like it. Cool.
Speaker:Next step. We'll put it on page. Okay. Like,
Speaker:I'll do whatever because he's he's basically doing me a huge
Speaker:favor by fronting the cash, generating the buyers,
Speaker:and then growing my business, kinda growing my equity if you
Speaker:will. Now, imagine if I come up with a different
Speaker:offer tomorrow. I can now actually approach him and say, hey, I
Speaker:got this new offer. Will I do the same thing? And so now,
Speaker:instantly, I got a lead gen stream happening without me having
Speaker:to do much work. Amazing. So
Speaker:much good in all of that. And I'd you know, the the big
Speaker:takeaway there is is look. They're doing you a
Speaker:favor. So you know, be accommodating. And and I
Speaker:love all the stories that you shared about, you know, that initial resistance. It wasn't
Speaker:always there. We come across that all the time. I know I was like that
Speaker:as well and, you know, not viewing viewing it
Speaker:as transactional and not as a relay. Ship. And just
Speaker:because the timing or the no is today doesn't mean it's no
Speaker:forever, and it took me a long time to learn that as well. So
Speaker:And so well and take, for example, us, like,
Speaker:now the timing is better. We have other opportunities
Speaker:that weren't available the first time we talked. And so if
Speaker:we treat it transactional, that goes away. If we nurture
Speaker:the relationship, that door is always open. Right? Yeah. And
Speaker:so I love all of that. Well, we're almost out of time, so I wanna
Speaker:make sure we talk about your book and and and
Speaker:and get the link to By the way, if you're watching this on video
Speaker:and you resonate with what we're saying here, you wanna learn
Speaker:more e farming. If you wanna learn more about the book you guys are gonna
Speaker:talk about right now, it's right beneath this video. And on podcast,
Speaker:it's just on the show notes. You just have to go in the player. Wherever
Speaker:you're listening to your podcast, all the links are right there as well.
Speaker:So, Igor, tell us a little bit about your book. Yes. So the book is
Speaker:called The Listening Lifestyle Confessions of an Email Millionaire. It has this
Speaker:cover, so you don't miss it. And it's just about my
Speaker:journey getting started with list building and why it shows list building as my
Speaker:primary form of lead generation. Follow-up
Speaker:and why I built my entire business around this 1 concept.
Speaker:Because I've always felt that And, again, I I kinda explode
Speaker:this idea in the book as well share my story, but I always felt that
Speaker:by building a giant list It's almost like I'm building a brick
Speaker:wall around me to protect myself from anything that's made of dollar
Speaker:bills. Because anytime if you're sitting on the big list, anytime you need
Speaker:money, send an email, and you're gonna make money,
Speaker:like whether to your own product, someone else's product, a
Speaker:service, maybe you're launching a book. Like, this book became an instant
Speaker:bestseller in Amazon in this category, and it's actually 3 categories,
Speaker:primarily because I had a big list. And so I could mail
Speaker:and say, hey, guys, go on Amazon, get it there, forward me a receipt, and
Speaker:I'll give you a thousand dollar bonus.
Speaker:Who wouldn't buy that? Right? So everything
Speaker:becomes easier, good in making money, but also launching different
Speaker:projects collaborations, getting joint venture partners, everything becomes
Speaker:easier if you have a big list. And so this is what this book is
Speaker:about. And when you go to the link below the video, or the
Speaker:link in the show notes, I'll print this book for free
Speaker:for you, and I'll ask you to chip in on shipping and handling. But for
Speaker:your trouble, I'll also throw in 3200.0 dollars of
Speaker:free bonuses that include courses on lead generation, on list
Speaker:building, as well as a traffic train so you can start growing your list
Speaker:as well. So it's all on that link. Amazing offer,
Speaker:Igor. Thank you so much for that. Again, click the link below beneath the
Speaker:video and in the show notes and go check that out. And not just get
Speaker:the book, but that amazing bonus package as well.
Speaker:And so before we sign off, I wanna ask you just because books have
Speaker:been such a big part of my journey and all the learning in it, we
Speaker:highly recommend people to go get yours. But what
Speaker:book has really made a difference in in your
Speaker:journey that you would consider to be a must read?
Speaker:There are only a handful of books like that that I would say fall into
Speaker:that category. The 1 that that made the most lasting
Speaker:impact on me in recent years
Speaker:was never split the difference
Speaker:by Chris Voss. By Chris Voss? Yeah. So this is an ex
Speaker:FBI negotiator who goes on to share techniques that they
Speaker:use in hostage negotiation and how to apply these
Speaker:techniques to your everyday life. These techniques are
Speaker:absolutely insane at how effective they are as
Speaker:long as you don't lose your head. Because, you know,
Speaker:sometimes I do. For example, yesterday, I kinda lost it
Speaker:in a in an email negotiation chain that it has nothing to do with my
Speaker:business more from a personal life, and I regret doing that. But, you know,
Speaker:in my business, I tend to keep it level. And I use these techniques all
Speaker:the time to secure JV partnerships, to make more
Speaker:sales, close more deals, you know, make requests even,
Speaker:you know, just asking people for things that they are not really obligated to give
Speaker:me, but they end up doing that. And it's all thanks to that book.
Speaker:I highly recommend reading it. I highly recommend getting it both so you
Speaker:can read it, like, with your eyes, but also to get, like, an audio copy
Speaker:for your drive, workouts, etcetera. Because
Speaker:unlike many books, including my own, which is
Speaker:something I should admit, that book is just every chapter is
Speaker:just full of practical applicable advice
Speaker:that you can start using in your day to day life and business right away.
Speaker:These techniques are so crazy that I use them with my
Speaker:spouse. I use these techniques with both of my kids.
Speaker:I I got to learn a lot about myself as a result of reading that
Speaker:book because The book shows you how to, for example, how to deescalate.
Speaker:Like, if you're in a in a heated argument with somebody, how to deescalate
Speaker:it to a point where you're you can communicate again. It it's it's
Speaker:it's absolutely invaluable. And I keep referring
Speaker:to the notes from that book again and again, So if
Speaker:you're into any kind of selling or negotiating, which if you're
Speaker:listening to this, of course, you are, we all are, you absolutely have to
Speaker:check this book out. Yeah. Fantastic recommendation. I
Speaker:don't think any of my guests have recommended that 1 before, so you're
Speaker:the first. But I have I didn't read it, but I do have
Speaker:that 1 on Audible. So I I listened to the the audiobook version
Speaker:of that. 1 takeaway that was just just it blew my
Speaker:mind, is that in a negotiation,
Speaker:you want the other person to say no instead of yes. And I just
Speaker:remember that 1 of my early sales
Speaker:mentors, like, oh, you wanna get them to say yes so many times. And
Speaker:when I listen to Chris, it's like, no. In the hostage negotiation or
Speaker:whatever, you're trying to get the person to answer with a no.
Speaker:And if you can get them to answer with a no first, then you've
Speaker:almost surely won already. You just need to kinda go through the
Speaker:process. So that was that was my takeaway from
Speaker:it. Complete opposite of what I was taught. And
Speaker:just so many other really great, you know, nuggets of
Speaker:wisdom in that 1. So thanks for that recommendation. That's a great 1. I'm
Speaker:gonna add that to the library. And I think in our pre chat
Speaker:here, you had a really great idea of what we can do with these clips.
Speaker:So I'll let you know. When that publishes. We'll put your we'll put
Speaker:your clip in there. So, Igor, thank you so much for your
Speaker:time. You've been extremely generous with your time.
Speaker:You're you're sharing your stories, your insights,
Speaker:your your tips on email marketing, which has been
Speaker:amazing. And probably more than either 1 of us
Speaker:expected to to do today. So thank you for that so much.
Speaker:And to our audience, I highly recommend that you do connect with
Speaker:Igor. I've got all his links beneath this video and in the podcast
Speaker:episode, show notes as well. So, Igor, thank you so
Speaker:much for being here. If you were to leave our our our audience with just
Speaker:1 last piece of advice or words of wisdom, what would you leave them with
Speaker:here today? You know, I I
Speaker:think I wanna say that in spite of what many people might believe
Speaker:at this point in time, we are in a
Speaker:partnership economy. If I look back on my
Speaker:journey in my industry, And looking at the way
Speaker:different companies skyrocketed and different businesses blew up
Speaker:over the over the course of the years and the people that I know, I
Speaker:can often track back their success to at least 1
Speaker:really, really good partnership. In a sense,
Speaker:could be in a sense of lead generation, could be in a sense of finding,
Speaker:like, a team member that made all the difference. For
Speaker:me, I'm convinced that just in
Speaker:terms of lead generation, in your niche, whatever that niche is, you can
Speaker:probably structure at least 2 to 5 key
Speaker:strategic partnerships with people who cater to the same market but
Speaker:do it in a noncompeting way. I'll give an example. Earlier
Speaker:today, I was doing a consult with
Speaker:a tax lawyer who specializes in exit
Speaker:tax because I'm considering leaving Canada. And at the same
Speaker:time, he mentioned something during the consult about the way I
Speaker:can extract my corporate profits from my company while
Speaker:minimizing my tax burden from a 40 percent to 25 percent.
Speaker:And I say, okay. How do you do that? He says, well, it's called
Speaker:something. I don't remember what the term was. And he says, but I don't do
Speaker:it. This other guy, you know, does it. You probably wanna
Speaker:talk to him. So immediately here refers me to this guy. Now I'm a
Speaker:paying customer. I pay this guy for a consult. So pretty much guarantee
Speaker:that I'm gonna pay the other guy for the as well to find out how
Speaker:I save 15 percent of my taxes. So,
Speaker:again, it didn't cost him money to refer me. I don't think he gets
Speaker:anything for referring me. But that's a strategic partnership that he's
Speaker:got with this other guy that results in
Speaker:in instant and most importantly, high quality buyer
Speaker:for the other guy, which I'm sure they do it both ways. Right? I'm sure
Speaker:the other guy refers back about exit taxes to this
Speaker:person. So both lawyers both deal with tax,
Speaker:but noncompeting. Right? So supporting,
Speaker:collaborating. And so by exchanging the customers, There you go.
Speaker:And, you know, I'm pretty sure I'm worth at least a couple of thousand
Speaker:dollars to each 1 of them for their services. Of, you
Speaker:know, filing different applications and paperwork, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker:So it's, you know, 1 referral that's almost a guaranteed couple of
Speaker:grand. I think that's a good partnership. Yeah. That sounds great. Well, thank
Speaker:you for sharing that story. That I mean, that's, again, such a
Speaker:great example of how collaborations and partnership
Speaker:can play a role in all of this. So thank you so much.
Speaker:Those are great words to end this episode by to our
Speaker:audience. Go check out egor's links. They're right beneath this video and in the
Speaker:podcast show notes. And like always, don't let this be for
Speaker:nothing. I want you to pick 1 action item from
Speaker:today. Maybe that is to check out e farming. Maybe
Speaker:that is to go and get the book. Maybe it's some other
Speaker:goal that you've been procrastinating on that's really gonna make a difference
Speaker:in your business. Go and do that thing today and then come
Speaker:back and check out our future episodes Until next time,
Speaker:this is the creative collaboration show with Chuck Anderson. My guest has
Speaker:been Igor KFETs, and go out
Speaker:there. Keep Keep on moving forward in the pursuit of
Speaker:your dreams, and we will see you on the next
