Overcoming Project Planning Challenges with Elisa Boogaerts

Hello, everybody, and welcome back. This is Chuck Anderson with the

Creative Collaboration Show, and this is the show where we talk to

entrepreneurs and business owners who are on a journey

to get their products,

their service, whatever it is that they are selling

out to the world and make a big impact. And most of the people

that we serve are, have world changing ideas,

big visions of how they want to improve people's lives.

Now as we encounter this journey of being

entrepreneurs, there's gonna be challenges along the

way. One of those challenges is managing projects,

managing tasks, managing team, managing employees.

And today's expert guest is

an an expert in that and, not only

helps people with, their project management and their product

launches, she actually helps us with ours as well. So today,

my guest is Elisa Boogaerts. She is a launch planner

and strategist, helps coach, strategize, plan,

and execute programs and launches in a

structured and organized way so that you can

focus on scaling your business. She has a

combined 17 years experience in project

management and coaching, and she uses that to

help you launch. And like I said, she helps that,

helps us with our team management and our launches as well. So,

Elisa, welcome to the show. Hey, Chuck. Thanks for having me. I'm super

excited with that. We, like, got to do this. Yeah. It's like tech.

Together, and it was like, can I be on your podcast too? I'm like, I

can't believe you haven't been on the show already. Usually, that happens

within the first couple of months of getting to know someone. You and I have

known each other for, which is almost a couple years now.

So it's about time. It's about time. So Yeah. It's perfect.

So welcome. And, and so I think a

a great place to start, we're gonna dive into, everything

we wanna talk about project management and team management and

and staying organized and launching and all of those things.

How did it come to be that you find yourself

in this role of being an expert in working,

working with companies to help them with their projects? And so what what's

your origin story? How did it come to be that you're doing this now?

Well, like you said, I have many years experience in it. So in

my corporate career, I kind of, like, could've fell into project management. I had a

really good manager who was like, I think you'd be good at that. And it

turns out I really am good at it. And then about 4 years

ago, I launched my own coaching business and started doing

my own launches, and I'm working in that. And so it was just

sort of, I was keeping them very much separate. And

then I quit my corporate job in 2023,

and, my business coach at the time was like, what are you doing with

those skills? You know, we kinda had this idea, and I talked to a few

different people, and they're like, those types of skills are really needed in

the coaching industry because there's so many people that just wanna

coach or or don't necessarily have those business skills. Or even if they do have

the business skills, actually implementing it and planning and getting it

done, you know, getting it out there is is it's sort of

a gap that I've seen in so many programs that I've been in because I'm

such a doer, such a, like, a get it done kinda person. And so, like,

I would execute on things and implement them, and some people maybe even a year

later still hadn't done it. And so I was like, oh, that's like could

be something that I could help people with because I had, you know, my own

experience of coaching and, these skills. So sort of

just kinda came to life in that way and been like, okay. Well, how can

I help people? And we sort of brainstormed and just kinda

started working working with people, more word-of-mouth. And then,

it took me a little while though because in my mind, I was

like, no. That's my corporate job. I don't wanna I don't

wanna bring that into my business. Right? Because,

like, to me, it was like coaching is such this wonderful, beautiful thing, and

I love working with coaches. I love being in this industry. And to

me, the corporate environment was kind of toxic and difficult.

You know? And I was like, oh. So, like, I kind of merged the 2.

You know, I thought that project management, those 2 were were kind of the same

thing. And so I it took me a little while to kinda change my mindset

of it, and then I started to get really excited about it. And, yeah, I've

been working with people ever since. You know, it's funny. I've heard

that part of the story so many times where we resist

bringing what we're good at, in the corporate world

into our businesses. And, look, you know,

funnily enough, I I did the same thing. Right? And it's like

and I think part of that is that, you know, we're we're moving away from

something we're dissatisfied for you know, in and

moving towards something that brings us much, much more

joy. And that idea of combining the 2 is like,

no. I don't want that to infiltrate this because now that's not

gonna have joy. And so

so that's great. And, obviously but then, you know, that realization

of, look, you know, I'm skilled where I'm skilled, and my

zone of genius is this, and that's what people really

need for me. That's how I ended up focusing on the

affiliate, marketing and affiliate management side of things

because, again, that's what I was doing so much of when I was,

when I was a marketing director. So, you know,

we're kind of experienced similar

things there in terms of honing in on on that zone. What was the

turning point for you? Like, you know, so becoming a coach,

you're trying to leave your corporate job. What was the the turning point or

the trigger, that that really said, you know what?

I'm denying myself here. I really need to do that. Was it the conversation with

the coach, or was there more to it like that, that really

got you on that path? Yeah. I think there was it was that kind of,

like, planted the seed, you know, and I sort of, like, had thought about it.

And then, what I realized was that

I love I love coaching. And and through getting my because I have, like, 4

coaching certifications. And and I noticed

that being a coach and coaching actually kinda gave me

some anxiety and some stress a little about it. I think it was like I

I didn't relax into it enough to use my my

intuition with coaching, and it was always just like, I need to, like, provide

transformation. I gotta answer the questions right. You know, it's, like, specific way you ask

questions, and then it was all like and I had this really sort of perfectionism

good girl kind of mentality around it, and it kinda stressed me out. And so

I think in in thinking about that and being like, actually, well,

project management and and planning and organizing and strategizing,

all that kind of stuff, that I find easy, and it kinda just

flows. And I know that many people don't find that easy. You know? And then

that's where I sort of thought about that. And especially after I had quit corporate,

you know, I had more time to really kinda think about what I wanted and

what I was doing. And I think that's kind of the realization that I had.

I was like, oh, you know, I I I think I fell in

love with coaching, but not me coaching.

Mhmm. You know? So I think that was kind of, like, the final moment, the

difference. I was like, oh, you know, maybe that's not meant for me to be

a coach, but being in this industry and working with coaches is

where the happy place is. Mhmm. What

are some of the what are some of the things that you

notice coaches struggling with or

or, you know, coming to you and asking you

questions about, in their business that, you know,

they they know nothing about or they're struggling with, but this this

is something that, you know, you're perceived as an expert at this. But what are

you hearing from them? Like, what do they need help with?

I'm hearing a lot that I don't know where to get started,

that there's so much stuff to do, and it's so

intimidating. This amount of things that needs to get done, especially if you're, like

is it say, is your first group coaching program? Like, a lot of coaches, if

they go from 1, a lot of coaches start at 1 on 1, and then

they move into sort of group and starting to do launches, or they wanna

even I help people with, like, launching podcasts or books, but I I focus mainly

on programs. And, and so there's just like,

there's like, I don't even know where to start, and therefore then they don't. You

know? Or or this kind of, like, lost on where like, what those steps are

and and how to even, yeah, just get started because then you can just kinda

follow things step by step. But they feel like they sort of flounder

a little bit, and then they get and then they get stuck in, you know,

just really wanting to coach or in creation mode, which creation mode is great, but

then you also need to get it out there. Right? You need to do the

email marketing and then promoting and the, you know, all the things to to make

it happen. So I think that's sort of the number one thing that I hear

a lot is that, like, they just don't even know where to start. And it's

just this giant puzzle, but all the pieces are

separate, and they have no can't figure out how to get all those little pieces

to fit to get their program out into the world. You know,

sometimes when we have designed projects

and then you start to get into the details of those projects, well, we need

to do this, and we need to do that, and all of these things. And

when you start to think of the project as a whole, it

can actually be a little overwhelming and

can sometimes lead to that that that

thought process of, I don't know where to start or do we do this

and, you know, how long is it really gonna take? And,

I think it really takes someone who has the the experience

of of doing that kind of planning

and that the estimation of time because for that

that solo person who's out there, unless they've

managed projects before, you're just guessing at everything. Right? And so

Yeah. Yeah. What are some of the mistakes that

you find that they're making that's kinda leading to this overwhelm or the

confusion or maybe even being stuck at the the starting line with

some of their projects? Well, I

think that one of the things is that they don't give themselves the time to

actually sit down and think it through. And because that's something that I because I

I sort of love doing. I love the planning. So, like, when I when I

launched my own podcast, like, and I did that. I was like, you know, I

just sort of, like, dive in. I was doing things, and I was like, wait

a second. What is the whole flow here? And to actually sit down and be

like, okay. Like, as a a podcast guest, what do I need? What are the

steps? You know? And as a host, what things do I need, and what do

I need to do to get it out? You know? And so I'd like to

really, like, go through that kinda I don't know if you would call it, like,

a story map or process flow to really think it through. And I think a

lot of people just sort of dive in and kind of just like, oh, let's

just do whatever it's done. It kind of becomes a bit chaotic because they don't

really know what they're doing. And then, also, like you said, like,

we we don't know what we don't know, and things

can often take much longer than you think they're gonna take. And so

then so things get delayed. And, so I think that you've

actually sit down and think it through. Like, I like to use this

example as, you know, you think, oh, I wanna do a webinar. So

I gotta, like, you know, I'm gonna do 2 do a webinar. Yeah. I can

throw that together. Right? But then you think about all the little tiny things that

need to happen. Right? There's so many little steps that you think you could throw

together in a couple of days, but, actually, it might take you a week or

2 because you gotta do all the landing pages and all the emails and the

reminders and the marketing and promoting and, like, you know, there's so much more to

it. And so and I think that, yeah, people just don't sit down

to actually think through all the steps and be like, woah. Actually, maybe

maybe it's gonna take me a little bit longer than I think it might.

Yeah. You know, planning a webinar and setting a date is

the easy part, And then there's all of the if you wanna do it

properly, like you said, with the marketing it properly and

sending the emails and, you know, the big part where

people struggle a lot and and especially in our world is the

follow-up, not just doing the event, but following up with

everybody after the event and, really making sure

that all of that happens because that's that's where the money comes from.

It's not just, oh, I'm gonna do a webinar on Thursday. Right?

And I caught myself numerous times because I've done

hundreds of webinars, and I still think, oh, yeah. I can just do

one Thursday. I've done hundreds of webinars. No problem. But then when you

realize, what I really meant is I wanted to do one on

Thursday properly. And Right. You know, that that does

take some planning. And so what's your

so what do you, suggest like, first of all, who

like, give us some examples of some of the types of

businesses or coaches or, business owners who are

coming to you and, you know, coming to you for help.

Like, what's their situate you mentioned, their coaching

and their books and other things. Like, you know, just so we

can get a better sense of, like, you know, who you

serve and who you help. You know,

who's coming to you for help? Yeah. I I get

2 types of coaches that come to me for help. So one is kind of,

yeah, the newer coaches say in their first, you know, 1

to 3 to 5 years of business where, yeah, they're looking to launch. Maybe they've

done some launches before, but it hasn't gone as well, and so they really wanna

have more success with it. And so they come to me for that because kind

of, like, yeah, newer to them, and I teach them that process and

that systems. And then other coaches that come to me are more

established coaches who, you know, are maybe

making 6 figures, multi 6 figures, and they need either a

project manager to come in and help them with the launch, or they

kind of didn't. And this is actually a mistake that I find that people make

is that they don't set up their systems early.

So if you're starting out as a coach, you wanna create systems so that

things flow. And so as you scale, they're already in place. And so

I find some maybe more established coaches where they grew fast, and then they're

like, oh, we are scrambling with everything all the time. Like,

every launch is just this chaotic running around, like

and, and so they're like, can you come in and help us streamline

things, put in processes, and, like, tell everybody what they need to be doing when

they need to be doing it so we can actually because they they could get

it out. Right? I mean, anybody can especially if they have the established coaches and

they have the resources, yes, they can launch. But was it good? Was it stressful?

Was it, like, like, what was the state of your team, and is everybody burnt

out afterwards? You know? So kinda working with them to, yeah, to

really start a stream like that and make it more of a repeatable process

that they can do over and over and and improve on.

Mhmm. Yeah. And I think that, you

know, certainly with some of the coaches that we've worked with, the

systems are kind of an afterthought of that.

Oh, no. I need this. Right? Maybe I should have had

this already. And, and and so systems being

created out of this, you know, this necessity of just

the phase of business they're in. What's your

advice for the coach who, you know, to to take a more

proactive approach? Because, you know,

versus reactive where they're creating these systems

of out of, out of this necessity or out out of

some issue that's been created. Right. Right. Yeah. It's

to to get it started early. And I think one of the first things that

I suggest is, like, having a

filing system in place so you know where things are so you can find them

easily. Because, like, so much stuff we can

spend so much time searching for things and

searching and searching. And then if you can't find it, you gotta recreate it. And

then that takes more time and more money, and and it's just sort

of can be really frustrating. And so I think that's, like, something that's super basic

and simple is, like, have a filing process, have folders, have the name, like,

have a structure. And then as you do scale, you can teach people what that

system is, like, where things go so that you can just, like, oh, yeah. I

know exactly where that is. I'll find it. I did have one of my clients

said that he was doing a launch, and,

the contractor that they had in their previous launch,

wasn't with them anymore, but did everything on their personal

Google Drive, whatever email. And so it wasn't in a central

place for the whole team to get access to it. So when that person left,

they lost access to it. So they literally lost their intellectual property.

And so the team spent a lot of time searching for

everything. Where is all this stuff? Or could, you know, did I receive that email

that I could dig through and try and copy and paste it or, you know,

the swipe copy or what have you? And, and then they ended up

having to recreate everything, and then they did put it in a proper, like, place

where everybody could access it. But he estimates because

that took so much time and therefore they weren't spending that

time on other things, you know, that they could have been doing for the launch,

he estimates he lost about $50 Wow. In that

launch. Yeah. You know, and it's huge. And even possible.

Yeah. Yeah. And even if you're not that established coach and you're just starting out,

like, think of all your time. Your time is valuable. So, yeah,

$50 is is like, woah. That's a lot. Yeah. Let's get those

systems set up. It it seems like some coaches even think

that, what you're talking about with project planning and

even having systems and procedures and things like

that are not for them at the stage of business

they're in, but it's in that future stage with,

well, I don't have any employees at or I don't have any contractors

working for me. It's just me. So why do I need all of

that? Right. Yeah. Exactly. People don't really think about that

future or I'll just you know? I had one person to call them and said,

oh, yeah. Well, I'll just scramble. That's my plan. And I was like, okay. Well,

do you know? Just to raise that risk of, like, the scramble, you know, can

can cause delays of things or things to get missed or fall through the cracks

or what have you. And so, yeah, I just

think that because, you know, I'd like to believe that we're all going

to grow and scale. And so even that solopreneur will

eventually have even if it's just a VA. Right? Have things in a

place where your VA can access it, and, you know, and you can even put

some security around that as well so they can only access that one thing.

And because we will. We will grow and scale. And so set it up

now so that you because then you won't even have to worry about it later.

It won't be a thing. It'll just flow. You know? And then, of course, you're

gonna adapt it and change it as you scale, and maybe people come in have

different ideas, but you'll have that foundation. I really think it's part of the

foundation of a business that not many people think about. Yeah. And

that's something that you were able to help us with as well because the

reality of we had a new product that we needed to

deliver, and we had some things documented. But it

when it came to really training the team members to do

that work properly, we definitely found some some

holes, some, you know, misunderstandings that they

had, and some tweaking that we had to do in that system.

And it probably took a few weeks until that actually got

dialed in to the point where now I'm probably not

even in needed in those in in those because the the checklist

is there and the procedures are there and people know what they're supposed to

do. And now it's just kind of like, you

know, did the boxes get ticked? Do you know, did did these things get

done? And that that opens you know, I find

that that opens me up for more. It's like, okay. Well, what other

things can I add to this process? Right? And and and

that's kinda, like, where we're at right now. So,

really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. That,

yeah, that it's something that I learned when I was in that corporate

world was to like, I I even noticed that they as we start

talking about something and someone's teaching you something, that I always

take very explicit notes for myself because sometimes we can learn

so much or someone's showing you something. Oh, you're like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

can figure that out. And then 2 weeks later, you can't

even remember the beginning point. You know? Like, you maybe remember some of the

steps or something like that. And so that's something that I do when I work

with people when I start hearing like, oh, click this, click that. I just, like,

start typing the notes out so that we can have it, you know,

to for someone to reference just in case they may or may not forget. And

I think that that's super handy. Because sometimes we need that that super

detailed you know? Because there can be one click that you miss,

and then, you know, it's it's wrong or something doesn't happen properly. And

so yeah. So sometimes you can you can get really super

detailed in all of it. Yeah. Which which

you know, some people's brains are wired for those details

and some people's are not. There are some

that are more visionary and creative

and, others that are more analytical and can

really figure out all of the details and others that are

just like, okay. Whatever. Just let's get it done. And, you

know, you know, if you're trying to fly the space shuttle, right, like, you

know, it's not like, oh, let's just build 1 and go. Like, it's

not exactly how it how it works. And, but you

do need to know, like, what are the steps. And, you know, some people

enjoy that and and some people don't. But it's the lack

of detail, I think, that leads to so much procrastination in people.

I tell the people in my my group coaching program all all the time, and

I get asked, well, what do I do when I'm procrastinating? And I say, well,

what are you unclear about? Right? Like Yeah. And

because, usually, it

it leads back to some sort of unclarity

and then an underlying fear

of what if I do the wrong thing? What if I do this wrong?

Do I have this right? All of that. And I think that's a sign,

like, if you find yourself in in your business

not executing an ideas, I think that's a sign that you need

Elisa's help or the help of a project planner to help you with the

details and, and and keep things

moving forward. Right? Because you're you're great at helping us, with

the details and also making sure that the team,

you know, sticks to those details because it can be a little overwhelming. And

so so anything you wanna add

to that? Because I think that is something certainly that that,

you know, coaches and business owners of really

any kind, will experience from time to time.

Yeah. I think it's I think you're right. I think even with

myself, you know, sometimes I'll in even in a day, like, okay.

What are my goals for today? What do I need to do for today? Or,

like, what are those sort of, like, tasks of today that I need to do?

And, you know, and I'll I'll make a list for myself. But I feel like

if I don't have that, sometimes I'll just be, like,

floundering a little bit. You know? Like, or I'll have, like, an extra 30 minutes.

I'm like, oh, great. I got 30 minutes to do something, and then I'll end

up clicking on stuff and kinda not doing anything. Maybe read an email, you know,

where if I, like, had that list or I knew that task that I needed

to do with that, you know, that was, like, kinda specific. I could be like,

okay. I'm actually, I have 30 minutes. I can get that done right now. And

so I find that that really helps, and that's kinda what that plan checklist does

is, like, all those little things and be like, okay. Well, what could I what

could I do right now? So I find that that kinda helps with the

procrastination or at least, like, what I consider myself doing is that floundering

around just like, what? And then if someone's like, oh, man. I just, like, wasted

half an hour. I didn't even do anything. I'm not even sure if I read

that email or you know, just like and so I feel like it felt can

really help you be more efficient. And, yeah. And in

terms of procrastination I mean, I love what you said about that that

it's you know, what is that underlying fear? There's something going on. And

then we all get it. Like, even me is you know? Because we all have

different types of fears, and, like, one simple thing that I have is,

with writing emails, sometimes I never know what to put in the subject line. And

then that's where I get stuck, and I'm like, oh, I'll get back to the

email, like, some other time. You know? And it's just the subject line that catches

me out. I'm like, why do I, like, put so much emphasis on that? But

I don't know. Maybe I learned that somewhere that, like, that has to be the

most important thing and to get people to open your email. And, and so then

that's where I sort of procrastinate. But that is like you're really like, well, what

is the problem? What is the missing piece? Okay. Maybe I'll go grab that

document that has 50 different subject lines that I could look at to help me

out. You know? Yeah. So, yeah, we all procrastinate on something. And so,

yeah, maybe that's it. Just find the tools that can help you get

through it, and remember that you exist. Tools are nice, but

I think, where we've made our biggest gains

in the last couple years is collaborating with others. Right?

And so, you know, AI is nice.

ChatGPT is nice. It it, you know, it helps with a lot of,

lot of things. And, look, if I have unclarity, I can ask it to give

me a checklist, and it gives me a checklist. Whether

or not that checklist is right or not, who knows? Did it

make stuff up? And then and then also,

I think there's one other level. Because having the checklist is one

thing, but then having the

motivation is is one way of putting it, but just now

executing on it. Right? Yeah. And I think anytime where it's

just me, it's easy to take

my time with it or, you know, put it off. But, you know,

when it's the team, you know, and the team's meeting every Monday

morning, you, you know, you have to you have to have

things done. And, you know, even that

part, that necessity or that responsibility

has been great in moving projects forward. And I know for a

fact that there are projects that we have done

together that would not have gotten done if it wasn't for

that and and that structure. So so the tools are nice, but

I think having that that accountability to another human is

is is a is a big part of it. Yeah. I totally agree. And it's

like yeah. Especially with your in that team, that collaboration, you sort of know the

other person's relying on you doing that or you need to get something by a

certain time. And that's something I also like to talk about, like, to identify. We

call them dependencies in the project management world. And it's like, okay. So

you have to do this so that this person can do this. This person can't

do this until you can do this, or this can't happen until this happens. And

so just kind of making that clear so then people know that

there is that. Like, oh, now I have this responsibility. If I don't do this,

then the knock on effect could be huge. And so sometimes it's just

making people aware of that. Right? Like, this is what this is the

risk if we don't do this because this is dependent on this other thing.

Yeah. So sort of a different way of thinking that I like to

So for anyone listening in now who is struggling with this,

and you need a next step, great next step would be

to download Elisa's, launch planning

blueprint. You wanna tell them a little bit more about that? Yeah.

So if you're not sure sort of where to start with planning your

launch, you know, and you really want help with that side of it, so you

can just do kind of like we were talking today. Right? Like, a little bit

less stress, and you kind of, like, know where to start and what to focus

on. I think that's really part of, like, what to focus on. You can download

this free guides. Yeah. It's called launch planning blueprint, and

it's got, teaches you, like, ways to plan. It

gives you the high level things of what to plan as well for a

launch, and it talks about goals as well for your launch because each

launch gonna gonna have a different goal depending where you are in your business.

And also has, an event tracker in it, which is super

handy for looking at your conversion rates. Right? So say you have a

webinar and you notice that, you know, like, a 100 people click

on the page, but only 5 people actually opted into the webinar. And you're like,

oh, that conversion is really low, that percentage. Right? 5%. What could

I do to what tweaks could I make to improve that? And then that can

increase, you know, more people coming to your webinars. You can just make little tweaks.

So I find it really happy to, to calculate so it calculates your

conversions, and then you can track them to, make improvements to be even more

successful. Oh, amazing. Well, if you'd like to get a

copy of Elisa's launch planning blueprint and you're

watching this on video, just look right beneath this video. All her links are

there. And if you're listening to this on podcast, just, click

into the, player, whether you're on Spotify

or Apple Podcasts or wherever you are. Just click in there.

All of her links there as well.

Elisa, this has been amazing. We've we've covered a lot of

ground, but also kind of only scratched the surface as well. And so I do

highly encourage people to reach out to you, if

they, need some help, and we've got your contact

info in the show notes there as well so people can easily,

find you. Now before I let you go, I have, I

have one question I wanna ask, and I ask this of all my guests just

because, you know, building a business, I mean, it does have strategy

and tactics and tools and all the things that we

typically talk about. But so much of it

is about growing and developing ourselves as well. A big part

of my journey in the last almost 30 years of of of

business has been what I've learned from books.

And so I've certainly got my favorites. I wanted to ask you what

you what your favorite is and if you had a must read book

recommendation for our audience. One of my favorite books,

and I think it's sort of towards the beginning of my personal growth journey,

was a woman written by Gretchen Rubin. She all talks

about happiness, and it's called the four tendencies. And it's

about that she believes that there's 4 tendencies in the way that we

respond to expectations. And I find it really

handy, to learn about them and then so you can

identify it in people so you know how to work with other people,

especially in terms of collaborations. And if you start to build a team,

what tendency they have towards expectations so then you can change

your approach with how you work with them or how you ask them for things

or, you know, sort of setting guidelines of how you work together. I found it

really interesting. And then I also noticed in myself too. I was like, oh, that's

so, like, in terms of getting myself to do things, if I have certain

expectations, I know I need to, like, deal with myself even in a different

way. Yeah. Super awesome book, I really like. That's fascinating.

2 things. 1, I've never heard of that book before, and the

other thing is that sounds amazing. Like, that sounds like,

definitely a must read for me and a must read for

everybody because really understanding your own tendencies,

understanding the tendencies of others. At some level,

I do incorporate that with the, you know, with the partnership

conversations that we have and the sales conversations we have.

We do that to a point, but then understanding that as a deeper

level is super, super powerful. So I'm gonna add that to

the must read list for sure. Thank you for that. That's that was amazing. She

also has a quiz as well, so you can kinda see which tendency you are.

So when you read the book, you know, you can know to pay attention to

Oh, there you go. So self assessment as well, and you can kind of see,

not but you could use that with others too. You could have them take the

assessment, then you could compare that and just kinda see and

then use that in formulating your communication with that person.

Right? So there you go. Wow. Yeah. We just brainstormed,

some some great uses for that, great applications. Well, we'll put all the links to

to that book there, beneath the video and in the podcast show notes as

well. Elisa, thank you. This has been

amazing. And, and so, you

know, I hope our audience has taken away a lot

from this and and, you know, start thinking about, you know, what

your next steps are. And if you don't know what your next steps are, then

I think there's a couple of great next steps for you. One is to

download Elisa's launch

planning blueprint and also reach out to her as

well and see you know, to have a conversation. She's,

great to work with. We are super grateful to have you, in

our world. Any final advice or words of wisdom you

wanna leave our audience with before we sign off?

I would say, you know, live in the place

of good enough and just sort of start now and start taking those

first steps and get that ball rolling. Because sometimes,

you know, we can get stuck in perfectionism or having to get all these things

done. And so just, you know, good enough and just

start making those steps and start making further forward progress because

that's the only way that you're gonna really be super successful in your business. You

always gotta be moving forward. And if you know what that path kinda looks like,

then, then you'll yeah. You'll it's the road to success. So

Yeah. Nothing gets done if you're stopped for sure. Well, that's

beautiful advice to end this episode by. So, thank you.

And, to my audience, thank you. Go get Elisa's

launch planning blueprint. Reach out to Elisa, and I want you to think

about one thing that you learned in this episode today and

take action on that one thing. And it doesn't have to be perfect

action. Just take that action and get momentum.

And when you get momentum, then you can, speed up and

things will move a lot faster for you. So, in the meantime,

never ever give up on your big dream. The only fail way to fail is

to quit, so keep moving forward, everybody. This has been

the Creative Collaboration Show with Chuck Anderson. We will see you on the next

one, everybody. Thank you.