Power of Perseverance in White America with Dr. James Smith, Jr.

Welcome to diner talks with James slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends we never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be

my friends welcome to another episode of diner talks with James. I'm James and I'm super pumped to be here with you all slide into the diner booth, my friends. Let's get it going. As your 22 going so far. Well, I hope so. And if it's not, well, here we are. I am I'm super pumped to be here and kickin it with you all I have an awesome guest and I want to just jump right into he has become a dear friend of mine over the last I would say two years. We're in a mastermind group together. Now that just tells stories and we critique each other's stories and improve our storytelling ability and getting to hear bits and pieces of this man story is just had me fall in love with him more and more than the first time I ever met him in person. I don't know if I've ever gotten a better hug. I'll be honest with you. Just got me brought it in for the real thing. So let me tell you about Dr. James Smith Jr. He passionately works with learners providing high performance solutions in areas of leadership authenticity, diversity and inclusion, personal presentation skills and personal power. He's authored three books with his last book No excuse Guide to Success being nominated for an N double A CP Image Award. Casual y'all casual. Dr. James possesses ridiculous optimism. He Mesa he comes up with some called Jim packed. I think I understand what that means. But we'll probably ask him about it anyway. He is relentless determination modeled by his mother Rebecca Nancy Smith. Shout out to Rebecca. He's a perfect example. This is when he attended pre K through senior year of high school without missing one single class, y'all. I need a nap. Just reading this. I'm excited to get to hang out with him. I'm excited for you to meet him. Let's bring him out right now. Dr. James Smith Jr.

Listen, man, I have never laughed so hard during an introduction. I'm dusting off just slid into the diner gas lit in a little bit. What's up my

brother my man what a pleasure to see you rocking this rockin little three piece over here. Always fresh always for even in the diner, right? Got the top five None button though because it's still the diner right? We can relax a little bit.

You know, I was considering wearing my tie. Know when I got into the diner. I said no, this isn't about tie. Let me take this off and get comfortable. We're good

at that. You know that ties just gonna get syrup on it. So take it off. You doing? I'm doing great, man. I'm truly doing great. It's things are starting to melt in Minnesota. So it's a slushy mess. And it means that it's also ice every time you wake up in the morning, which petrifies me but we're we're doing great. I'm carrying my son out to take him to daycare and I'm just walking like a penguin because I was like, you know, it's bad enough when I fall but holding him I can't do that. So, but yeah, but now we're so far we're doing so good, man. How about you? How are you today?

Yeah, I'm good. And I'm especially good because I grew up in the 60s in the 70s. And during the 70s is when Lionel Richie and the Commodores begin to cut their teeth and music and then made a song that I fell in love with and I always wondered who were they thinking about? Who are they thinking about now I realized they were thinking about you? Oh yeah, like a Sunday morning so now I know who they had in mind Robo like a Sunday morning.

I think you can appreciate this My dad says you know James there's not enough o's and smooth.

I know Stuart Scott was thinking about when he said that's cooler than the other side of the pillow. What

I said Boo yeah. Rescue peaceful,

welcoming to the diner. I look forward to coming back again and again and again.

That's it. That's it. I appreciate you man. You know, since we are in the diner, I'm wondering you know, a question that I always love to start this off with is if we if you had the opportunity to have a late night meal and you could go back to when you were younger maybe maybe when used to late night meals yourself but what was your late night go to meal you know you grew up in the in the Philly arena now and so you're no stranger to a diner and and so but you know what was your favorite late night Move

typically done. Three eggs over easy. A little bit of salt and pepper. Now since I'm older, no salt, and T bone, medium, what? Three over easy. T bone in a little bit of real sin real thin fries. I'm good. I'm good. And keep the cranberry juice coming in in the lemonade. Because sometimes you can mix the cranberry with the lemonade. I'm good.

Yeah, we call those good night's steak and eggs coming out here. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

If they didn't have that, I used to love going to the International House of Pancakes. And there was nothing like a midnight international omelet. Omelet with everything on it. peppers, tomatoes, onions, cheese, mozzarella cheese, what

you just loaded this thing came up looking like it was gonna explode when it landed on the front of you.

Well, at midnight, no one's gonna care. You know. I'm walking out nice and full ready to go to bed ready to

go. Keeping that caloric intake up.

I'm working on that itis. I know I got it. I got

it. I love that. I love that. So I'm here for that too. I'm a I'm a pancakes guy in the diner, which is great. Not to date. There are a day that we're recording this. This is actually National Pancake Day. So a fitting day for us to be in the diner.

Well, if I'm going to do pancakes, they have to be chocolate chip pancakes.

Yes. Yep. But if I haven't I have sometimes look at that center stack. Find ones are pretty good.

You say suicide as soon as that right? Okay. Good luck with that.

Suicide. I love it. Brother. I love it. So Dr. James, you you're born and raised where exactly where were you born and raised? And tell me a little bit about who? Who Dr. James was? Or just James at that point.

should I should I do the Fresh Prince of Bel Air version or keep it very standard? Yeah. West Philadelphia born and raised most of my days, but if I do it more traditional. Yes, West Philadelphia. I was the oldest of two to James Smith senior and Nancy Smith. And that lasted for 11 years. My parents were divorced. And mom were both hats and raised both me and my brother were four years apart. And it was some Germany. And my mother didn't drive and we did not have a car. So when we traveled, there was public transportation regardless of the weather. And James I remember a number of rainy or winter days, when we stood in a phone booth, the three of us waiting for the bus or the trolley to come or we'll take a taxi cab, but those were some character building days and to describe my mother and this is probably before your time. I don't know if you saw the movie The Officer and a Gentleman Officer and a Gentleman Lou Gossett Richard Gere. Lou Gossett played the role of a drill sergeant. A read decorously mean tough drill sergeant. Yeah. And I kid with people that if they ever needed to stand in for their that roll, my mom they would they wouldn't skip a beat. They not skip a beat Rebecca Nancy Smith, we get in there. And come on mayo. neighs come on mayo, Nate, that's a trigger was mayo. They call them mayonnaise and, but because of that tough love, and that character building love. I tend to K through 12 Without missing a day of school. And she taught me to always don't just sit in the front of the class, tilt the room. Let them know you're there. Make sure your hand is up and be a difference maker game changer. And I didn't realize she was getting me ready for adulthood. Not the way she did. And he mentioned one of my books the no excuses guide. Think about that. No excuses. Tough love parent they go hand in hand. So she was allergic to excuses and I'm allergic to excuses as well.

Well I love that well as a fellow D nine mphc member we know a lot about excuses. And what they mean so no excuses for sure. They are indeed tools of the incompetent So yeah, that's incredible. So you're you know, you said that you and your brother four years apart were you all close? Are you close?

You know what's what's funny? We were close in we are close. He's actually the CFO for my organization. He's my business partner. And growing up, he was my baseball opponent, my basketball opponent, my hockey opponent football, we would turn our living room and dining room into a multi unit facility where we will play basketball, baseball while mom was at work. And we can turn those couches around, put pillows down for basis, puff basketball full court. And that house is still alive today. Those wood hardwood floors are still intact. They look real small, and like the old Boston Garden when we were young, they look like the Houston Astrodome. But we did it. We did I love my brother Rodney tremendously. And he's already always respected me and I respected him unkind, so now's your chance to work to work together every day.

That's beautiful. That's awesome. Sometimes Sometimes those family working relationships don't work out too. Well, that sounds like you and Ronnie got it dialed in. That's all

we had to have a couple of conversations, though. They say don't get it twisted. Yeah, to have a couple come down from St. Let's talk about how we're going to do this. Because this is a business although family business. It's a business and we both have to be accountable for each other. And and we have, we have stood the test of time.

That's incredible. I mean, you're talking about those experiences of you all standing. What a visual, you all huddled in the phone booth waiting for the bus or the cab or anything like that to come right. Like, y'all, y'all been through some stuff. You've seen some stuff, but you know, you you say their character building times. But in the moment, you don't know that you're building character. It's just life. Right? And so, you know, in those moments, did you? I guess it was you look back at those and putting yourself back in those in those shoes. Did you know that? You all had it rough? Did you know that it was you know that you were in a tough spot? Or was it something that you know your mom the way your mom talked about? It was just like this is where we're at? And this is how we're doing? Like you mean like, you know what kind of emotions were going through you as you reflected about yourself in that time.

James, it was all the above? Oh, yeah. Yes, we knew we had it bad. But we believed that. Others some others had it worse. I mean, when we were in our first place together, this is the place we lived with my father. Sometimes I thought it was Fourth of July every day. Why? Because the mousetrap. Yes, Mickey and his friends did not do well, in our one and a half bedroom apartment that was overtop of another house. As well as I wish we have partnered with Major League Baseball because when there is rain coming down and people come out, put the tarp over the field so it doesn't get wet. Yeah. Wow. When it rained did our house buckets bucket so the buckets were in every room coming down? Where were the grounds crew to come and help us out? So we knew we had it bad. But we were living? We were situationally happy. Every Christmas. Yeah, there was something big under the tree, multiple things. And I'm smiling because I remember the time I realized okay, there any kids listening? Cover your ears cover your ears now. When I realize mom and dad, they're Santa's because my father asked me to to go to the bedroom his bedroom and get his slippers there underneath the bed. So I ran in there I'm like 789 years old, slid down sort of slippers and then a pool table behind the slippers. What's a pool table? Yes. Daddy mom, Santa Claus. Well, the next year or so, James? Right after Thanksgiving. It was like an Easter egg hunt in my house. I'm looking at every closet under beds, under cabinets. Like, where's my Christmas gifts?

Oh, no.

But my mom would always say, to focus on what you have. And I don't want you don't have. So regardless of how bad things got, she said you have your health. You have a roof over your head. You have love. And I've kept that mindset throughout my life because they're like even when the pandemic started, and being a professional speaker and doing 100% of my solutions, all my presentations in person. Initially I started focusing on what I couldn't do that in front of people anymore, rather than focusing on what I could do, and once I made that shift, that's when the business shifted as well. I could do virtual Nike coach virtually I can do everything that I do in person I could do virtually. And that mindset emanated from 4620 Sansom Street in West Philadelphia, and then eventually southwest Philadelphia. We thought we were the Jeffersons moving on up in the kitchen, we moved into a neighborhood that was around the university of Penn Penn's campus. Yeah, sure. And the character building aspect of that move was that we moved without my father. My mom's plan was to take us out of school, half day because she didn't want us to miss school and come home move before my father got home from work. And what led to that move was that my father, as charismatic and friendly as fun loving as he was, he also had a bad habit that he loved to drink. And when he drank too much, he would eventually come home, wasted, and either fall asleep when the chairs fall asleep on the steps if he didn't make it up those 14 steps to our, our place. Or he would come home looking for the alcohol that he would hit, that he would hide underneath chairs and behind toilets and all that stuff. My mom would find it and she would pour it out. And when he realized he she had poured it out, he would commence to wanting to hit her and beat her. Yeah, well, I saw the domestic violence and I was 11 my mom said no more. We're out. We're out. And I missed him. Well put this way I missed his good side. He had two sides, an egregious and fashionable awful side in an amazing charismatic light up the room. Fats his nickname fats is in the house. And sports, singing dancing and James even speaking, I think I tribute to my dad because he turned me on to the singing group. The Jackson six. Go Michael, Marlon, Jackie Jermaine, and James. And I would do concerts in the living room, I would hold the brush to sing, get a broom to play the guitar and set up my GI Joe and my Rockem sockem robots. And my stuffed animals on the couch. They were the audience. And I was ABC is easy as 123 That's how I was raised.

Oh, man, I love that Jackson six. Y'all catch that? Look, I hope y'all caught that. With the broom and the guitar, man, you took me right in there. I can picture it. What a what a powerful. What a powerful turn of events in your mom having this the courage to leave. Right and knowing that knowing that she had to get out. And I also appreciate the way that you talk about your father, right that, you know, not everybody's completely bad. Many have some really beautiful qualities. What was it? What was it that drove him to drinking? Was it you know, a lot of people don't drink because they don't they don't feel like they're in control of other parts of their lives. Or, you know, what was it that you think sparked the drinking in your father,

I can only tell you what he shared with my mom. Because when they got together and got married, he did not drink. He actually went to the service for a bit was discharged, honorably discharged with some sort of medical injury. But then he went, got his first job and he went to work for a meat packing place. He was a butcher. And he told my mom that he worked in the freezer all day and he froze his butt off and him and his his co workers as a way of heating up would go to a local bar, get some drinks to warm up after a day of freezing. And that became the routine and the warm up became a way of life to the point where it impacted just about everything he did, but he was a functioning alcoholic. He was able to go to work on time, show up all the time because he's very principal. But coming home at night, we didn't know what time he was going to get home and James there were a number of times where I would put my knees on the couch, look out the window. And I could see the train station on the train station was maybe two and a half blocks from our house our home and I would watch him stumble walk stumble walk, stumble walk in a very five to 10 minute walk short walk with sometimes take him a half hour and I would hear the keys going in the door and then falling then going into the door then falling in. Eventually he would get in. And of course, kids will be kids. So from time to time when I was outside playing with my friends, one or two of them would say, Let's imitate James's dad walking down the street. And then I would lead that would lead to a fight or two. But that was, I would say, from 63 6408 until 72. Yeah, yeah. And I still remember like it happened yesterday. And I'm 60 years old now. And that was a long time ago. But it played a role in who I am today. And I think about it to get fuel, so that people can see that regardless of the hand, your adult regardless of the circumstances of the situation, you are in control of your life, because James people will say from time to time, I'm this way, because this way I was raised well, I was raised to be an alcoholic. I was raised to beat my wife, I was raised to do some unfathomable things, but I didn't do it. I chose the good stuff. Singing with my Jackson brothers, using a brush as a microphone, looking for ironic. I use those stuffed animals and my rocking sucking robots and my GI Joes as the audience members. When the pandemic started trending. I did what major league sports did, they had cardboard cutouts in the stands. I took pictures of my family members, and taped them to cardboard and taped it to my laptop. So I have a family in front of me as I was presenting. So what I did in my adolescence.

I love that. That's incredible. Yeah, it's so fascinating the way those stories. We all have those little moments where it's like, Hey, tell me you were you before you knew you, were you. Right. And like some of those moments of you holding the brush microphone. And like you said, setting up the Rockem sockem. Robot the audience. And you know, we're, we're anybody who knows you now or like, Of course you did that, right? Sure. Right. There's a story of me. Now there was a stump on I lived on, we lived on a corner and there was a stump a tree that had gotten taken down because it got into disease, and we couldn't afford to get the stump removed, or they're super expensive or whatnot. They're just kind of dead in stages. And so we had this stump there for a while. And I would ask my mom every day after school to go outside and sit on the stump so I could say hi to people as they walked by. Right. And people were like, Of course of course you did. James noxious extrovert.

Yeah. I love what your mom said about you going to school, sit in the front of the room, ask questions, make your presence known tilt the room. And you didn't know that she was preparing you for the real world. And there's some people who when their mom says things like that, they're like, Yeah, whatever. Mom sit in the back room and talk to the boys. You know, whatever. But you believed your mother, you leaned into what your mother said. I mean, that's part of that is because you're the oldest and you therefore the rule follower. Right. But, but you developed this work ethic and sports were also something that you leaned heavily into. Yeah. And you wind up getting really passionate about football, right? Tell me about that.

Yeah, I'll give me this first, and then I'll tell you about my level football. I'm 12 years old. I'm playing for a little league baseball team, age 10 to 12 neighborhood team. Everyone wanted to play for that team. And it was the dream of that time me making the Jayhawks. Long story real short. The Jayhawks are in the championship. We're tied one game to one best two out of three. And it's the bottom of the seventh. And of course, I lead off and if my story I get a hit, I'm on first. And my coach gives me the signal not to steal second and of course I listened in two outs later. My listening becomes impaired. And I did not pay attention to the signals. And I stoled second and of course he yelled at me. Next batter hits a base set to centerfield. I'm rounding third I get the stop sign. I run right through that stop sign. I'm going to be the hero. I know. This is going to be a story that I can tell as a motivational speaker. I needed content. I was working on content as well. continent 12 So I'm rounding third heading home. The ball from centerfield runs moves soars right by me right into the catcher's mitt. The catcher is there. He's waiting for me to arrive at home. And the funny part about this story is that the catcher at age 12 looked like he was 36. Games he had a mustache. He had a beard. His test protector looked like a bib. I swear he looked like Shaquille O'Neal with look at 12 That was baby Shaq. Baby shot into the course of the season everyone every played that team, I would tell our coach, check his birth certificate. As a man, that's a grown behind man. Anyway, I knew I slid. I wouldn't be out. If I ran into just stood up, I would be out. There's only one thing to do. My mother said All things are possible. You got to make it happen to tilt the room, the only thing to do was to knock him down. little skinny Jimmy with a big head was going to knock down baby shack. And I ran in there and he had the ball and I hit him. And like ice cream cone on a 300 degree day. I just slid there down his body. And my teammates said,

touched your plate touched your plate. And if that TV show

was out during that time, I would have said what you're talking about boosts but it wasn't out yet. But I did touch the plate in the opener said you're safe. What my impact caused baby Shaq to drop the ball. So I was safe. And that runs through the wall once through challenges mindset played a role in my love of football. And I played little league I played high school I played college won the national championship in 1981 wider University. Yes, award number 22 tried out with three pro football teams did not make it and finally settled for my first corporate job as a copywriter in our marketing department. Because my undergrad degree was an English I went on to get my Master's in journalism and then eventually get my Doctorate in Business Administration with a research study of authenticity at work

all from running into baby

Yes, like ice cream cone on a 300 degree day. Yes,

it my friends would say of course you did that. We're gonna try to fake them out and run around. Dead. It's possible. I'm standing outside in phone booths in the snow waiting for the taxi. Baby shot getting ready for you.

You've been running through walls your whole life, man.

Here's another spin on that. Mom calls me one day I'm in the car. I'm sitting in the parking lot of Wegmans. And she called me she said you have a copy of your book with your course mama carry my books with me all the time that no no, I'm serious. Yeah, Mama's there in the trunk why? And wants you to turn to page 32. Like why mom? There's a misspelling. And what could I do now? You can call your publisher and tell them immediately that your mother said and make this and then later on James were on the phone and she asked me you know, how are things going as my you know me you know me I'm knocking down every challenge knocking down every wall. She said you know, occasionally it's alright to walk around the wall. Rather than knocking it down. may save you for years in your life. Okay, gotta make the adjustment.

No one cent for you, mom. No.

She's at she is still doing well at going all 20 and back in 2018. I did unfathomable I face one of my fears. I went skydiving and things worked out. Long story short, I won't get into it. But I did successfully land. And I called her afterwards. I didn't call beforehand because I thought she would say don't do it. Yeah, I called her afterwards. I told her I did. It's like wow, you beat me to it. I want to do it. I want to do it. Before I leave this earth. I'm going skydiving. And I'm glad you did it. So you could tell me all about it. Like what? Of course he said

yeah, of course you beat me to it. That's awesome. Love it. I love it. So so we're playing football and was football the goal of the timer like hey, I really do want to like I'm gunning for the pros and like every Anything else was option B.

Real simple, real simple. James, here was the dream. play pro football, retire and do a combination of write for Sports Illustrated. Go back to my high school and teach English and coach football in in my spare time. Do the booth at Monday Night Football. And that would be it was illustrated coach football, teach English and do Monday night football with my background degree in English and journalism. Yeah, well, it didn't work out that way didn't make the pros didn't make Monday Night Football. I did submit several articles to Sports Illustrated. And they said they were good, but they weren't Sports Illustrated ready, that I should be a stringer for some neighborhood newspapers are in fact, travel outside Philadelphia, go to a different state different city and get some experience writing sports, and then come back. When I was impatient. I didn't want to do that. So I looked for a job and got my real first job working for the Prudential Insurance Company of America as a copywriter in the marketing department. And I client was AARP, the American Association of Retired Persons, and I'm a proud AARP member now.

The world comes full circle. That's not to say his client was going to be Sports Illustrated. That's where I was. That's

that was the goal. I wanted to give back our high school. Although I was in a great program. It was called motivation that was geared for college bound students. It was a high school that was half near Drexels, campus Drexel University in half in the hood, in a part of the hood it was near was called the bottom because imagine living in a place called the bottom. And our football field or field behind the school where we practice was 50 yards of dirt, glass, cement, rocks, and when we practice, varsity, junior varsity football, varsity junior varsity soccer, varsity Junior Varsity field hockey all on the field at the same time. No home games. What games we had were basketball, baseball, football, every game was on the road. Talk about character building. That's why don't do excuses. I lived a life of challenge what?

Yeah, talk about it, brother talk a game. That's crazy.

We never had homecoming. We had a go coming. Go coming.

That is that that's impressive. That is different than the way I grew up, believe it or not.

And you tell do tell give me a little give me a little about that. Yeah, no,

I mean, I just we just, you know, I grew up upper middle class, right? I was I was sitting in the phone booth. The only time I was going to phone booth is and you know, my mom was still cheap, though, even though we had a little bit of money. So my mom, whenever whenever I left golf practice, she said I want you to call me collect, call me collect from the phone booth. But instead of I'm not going to accept the call, but you just say ready to be picked up when they say and so good. It's good to be back. And I just like had to hope that my mom answered the phone. I had no idea. And and then she would hang up on me. And I would just like wait and be like, Well, we'll see if she was I don't even know she was oh, but yeah. But that's about the closest I got to perseverance as the young kid. So but yeah, you know, I you know, the you know, the phrase started the bra on the bottom now we're here. i I'm more akin to the phrase have started from here, and now I'm here. And that's, you know, that's, you know, that's and you can't help the way you grew up or what you you know what your parents did. My dad also, ironically, worked for Prudential, but he was on the insurance side of stuff, the broker side or the underwriting side. And so yeah, that's funny. I'll make you very good chance that you worked at Prudential at the same time. But yeah, I mean, that's just that that's, that's the world that that I grew up in, for sure. And so, but you can't you can't help the way that you grew up. And it was what it was. And I would say that because I was raised. Certainly with a silver spoon in my mouth. The concept of being grateful for what I had and working hard for everything that I wanted, wasn't necessarily something that was taught it was something I had to learn, right because it wasn't it wasn't a daily practice. And it's not to say that I was spoiled that we just had enough, right? We had what we needed. You know, my parents weren't out there buying me everything I wanted, you know, I wanted to ask for every single video console that came out I want to Nintendo and Sega Genesis and I wanted to end 64 that I want, right and like they would never get me anything they never got. So by the time I got my first job as an RA in college, I said, I'm buying an Xbox spent my whole first paycheck on an Xbox just out of spite. But so yeah, I mean, but still like that. That was my quote unquote, struggle was that mom wouldn't buy me a Nintendo, right?

That's funny. But I love about what you're saying. And this, I hope people are listening closely. Because when George Floyd was murdered, a number of my white friends and white colleagues reached out to me and said, What can I do? What can I do? What can I do? And here I am listening to you saying upper middle class. Things materialized wasn't hard. But you are probably if not the most, one of the most woke white American people that I know. And you didn't have to be you chose to be. Or when all these folks called me up what to do what to do. It was bittersweet, cuz I'm thinking, why don't you know what to do? You can run with the balls, you can go mountain climbing, hiking, bungee jumping, planned vacations, planned weddings, and you don't know how to be empathetic with a person of color. What though the bittersweet. And as I hear your story, when I already thought you were so woken, you know, very principled, and I'm looking at your background, the Black Lives Matter. That's one of the reasons why you got that Crazy Heart to Heart hug because I believe in heart hugs. I was hugging you because like, I love this guy. I love him. I'm only known him for a few years, but he is F van der Holyfield wasn't the real deal. James is the real deal. Okay. All right. I'm just saying,

Oh, shoot. Take take a whole new level to bending people's ears Thank you,

Tim. So I'm gonna make my terrible version imitation of Mike Tyson.

I appreciate it. Thank you, thank you for the love, man. I appreciate it. But you know, you talk about it cool segue because you know, you do talk about in your, in your work, you talk about diversity, equity inclusion, and that wasn't necessarily something that you were always passionate about, or something that you that you just, you lived, right. It's just what you lived on both sides of the coin. And you know, as someone in corporate America, who was making real money, but someone who grew up the way that you did, and look the way you did live the way you did whatnot. So, you know, how did you go from being in corporate America to this being a passion area of yours, that so much so that your left corporate American decided to get on some stages to talk about it?

Yeah. Growing though, I was in a number of situations where I realize my race was not the best tool in the box. My middle school was in a neighborhood that people would call poor white trash. But it was a school for smart kids. And me and a couple of friends. We use public transportation to travel into a seedy part of Philadelphia, that was called Kings Mountain. And there were a number of teenagers, boys, white guys, who had dropped out of school, and every day they woke up to beat up the black kids who traveled into school. And if they didn't get us in the morning, when we traveled home, they would attempt to beat us up before we got to the train station. So I experienced that for two years. That was egregious. Went on to high school, all black high school, graduated, the top 5% went to college, all white high school. We all white college very, very different. And that's when I in order to fit in. I accepted the nickname Jim and I went from James to Jim and I wanted to fit in. Well, I knew after college moving into corporate, which was predominantly white, that I had to really make a difference. I had to stand out in as My mother once said, people have guns, don't give them bullets. And you give them a bullet when you're late. When you don't turn in an assignment, when you're not where you're supposed to be, when you're out after midnight, because nothing good happens after midnight, you are representing, unfortunately, you are representing your race. Because when minorities fail, they fail as a group. When they succeed, they succeed as individuals. So if you mess up, they're not going to say, Ah, he's a bad guy. They're going to say, see, they can't do it around here. They can't perform, they can't make it happen. That was my mindset throughout corporate. And then eventually I would say, I think it was my seventh or eighth year in my manager came to me with a special project, you remember those special projects?

Building opportunity caught?

Me promotion centric opportunities. Yes, she asked me to head our organization's Diversity Council, and play a role in helping the organization during this initiative. And I'm not going to bore you with the long story how that came to fruition. But essentially, she asked me three times to do it. And I said, Why me? And the three excuses were around one, a lot of training, you're the best trainer in the organization. Number two, a lot of travel, you love to travel number three, a lot of corporate reports quarterly, substantiating what we're doing, highlighting what we're doing, measuring what we're doing. And finally she came clean and said, because I'm black, and we want to black personal color heading our initiative. I didn't take it right away. I need to think about it for a number of reasons. But I did take it. And I'm retrospect I'm glad I did it. And it's been part of one of the offerings that my organization provides for organizations who are serious about D E, and I turn work down. I don't want to be an event. I don't want to be a checkoff, we did it. I want organizations who are serious going to roll up your sleeves, do some heavy lifting. And if it means saying bye to people who aren't going to adhere to this new culture of inclusion, then you gotta go. I've been doing doing it sense and a lot of lumps or bumps, but a lot of smiles and making differences in people's lives as well. Yeah.

That's beautiful. And what a journey to get there, too. You know, it's, it's, it's obviously your lived experience. It's your lived story, that I think it's also important that you know, this, as we're both speakers, whenever you see a person who is black or a person of color, who's a speaker, there's this assumption that this is the work that they do, just because it's their lived experience. And, and that is wrong. Right? That is wrong, it's wrong to assume that it's wrong to immediately put those people in boxes and whatnot. And yet, this is something that you have decided to do. Not, it's not it's not everybody's journey, and you also do a lot of other stuff, but you talk about leadership, you talk about presence, you talk about you know, presenting presentation skills, like you have a whole bunch of other stuff that you that you also discuss, but this is a piece of the work that is your that is your career.

It is it is live lived experience. And now as an adult, 60 year old speaker, author, professional, every day, I'm looking for the lesson, I'm looking for content, I'm looking for something to happen to me or someone else that I can Chronicle, write a lesson, create a title now have a story I wish growing up, that I was smart enough to be looking for lessons, I remember things, but I wish I would have had my iPhone out iPhone back in the 60s and 70s I wish I would have my notepad out. Down in journal this happened on this day. This is how I felt this has hours contributing to my evolution. So the good thing my memory is still intact. But yes, lived experiences. So many. And when I'm teaching presentation skills, James and I teach storytelling. I love storytelling. You're a masterful storyteller as well. I teach a model that's called r squared. And it stands for retail and relive and I find that a lot of speakers a lot of leaders, they tell stories, but they retell it. They don't we live them and we living the means going back to what happened. And as you're telling it, doing In saying acting it out. Yeah, you're, when I tell a story about my dad staggering down 46th Street, I don't say my dad was staggering down to 46th Street until he got home, but my dad, and then he would eventually get to, I become my dad, I relive it. And when you relive it, the emotions are greater. The audience better connects with you, because catch this, they can see what you're saying. And I'm sure you at least once have said to someone, you see what I'm saying? You see what I'm saying? As a storyteller, I want people to feel see and hear what I'm saying. Yeah,

yeah, that's incredible. And you I mean, you are I mean, you've already obviously demonstrated that, even on our time here in the diner, the way that you the way that you weave a tapestry with your words, and paint these beautiful pictures. Yeah, it's, it's incredible. You really you do truly bring people in. You know, it's one thing I wanted to ask you about is that there's something that could potentially it could be seen as contradictory. And what you then what you've been talking about way about your upbringing about, you know, if you if you want it, you could be it if you if you if you need it, it's about, it's about the will, it's about the it's about the determination to be able to get out to be able to do the things you want to do. One thing that we often you often hear when people talk about diversity, equity inclusion work, that is the opposite. Sometimes that work is that pick me up by our bootstraps kind of thing. mentality. And and I would love to hear you kind of talk about the difference between those two, why that's such a problematic thing to tell people just won't pick yourself up by your bootstraps and just go and do it. Right? Like, what's the difference between that mentality versus what you're talking about, which is, you know, you, you got to have, you got to set a goal, and you got to try to reach it with everything, because there's a difference between those two that I think is important for us to highlight.

I've heard that shared a number of times. And I chuckle. Because everyone's accountable for what they do, based on what has happened, we might not be in control of what per se happens to us, the weather, so forth. But we're in control of how we handle that. And that's the bootstrap mindset for me and what I coach others on, play the hand that you're dealt, first of all, you might have to get some boots to strap them or get some boots and then get the strap and strapping up your boots. Acknowledge that your path to the goal may be more challenging. That was not just a matter of picking yourself up. To me, it's a matter of consistently picking yourself up the parallel in football, they have what's called a yak. Why a see that yet stands for yards after contact. So once you catch the ball, or run the ball once you're hit, how many yards do you get after contact? For me? That's the same with pulling yourself by your bootstraps. How far do you go after you've been hit? With microaggressions hit with prejudice hit with all the isms. And folks who, yes, still pull themselves self up by their bootstraps. And these are folks I'm saying that don't come from underrepresented groups. Many don't acknowledge that. They don't face the same or the same level of challenge that others are. Because I have white friends who say I was pulled over I was pulled over. But were you afraid to die? You were pulled over and Okay, officer, what do you want? I'll pull it over. hands on the wheel. You know, officer, you My hands are here. I'll tell you one more James. I have two sons 129 116. Once my bonus son, I never say steps on ones my biological son. They both are autistic. They both are nonverbal. And if you round autistic folks from time to time, depending on where they are on the spectrum, they might move back and forth. They may stem they may go and during this one drive home with the oldest in the front and the youngest in the back. I think the oldest was maybe early 20s at this point. My other son was less than 10 I believe. And I'm driving and I see the light Officers car, oh my gosh, that pulled over. And I'm thinking, this may not have a happy ending I have my son's here, they may start making noise the officer might become afraid. And shoot first ask question second. And when he pulled us over and I rolled my window down, he came up. And he said, Can I see your license officer before I keep my license? I have my two sons. They're both autistic, nonverbal, they may start moving in and just want to let you know what let's please want to let you know that that might happen. And he said, Okay, check my license, and basically said, just check your tail like, it's out. You need to do one to be safe. I'm gonna pray for you and your sense. I didn't see that coming. Yeah, right. white police officer and I was extremely call it a tension convention, a lot of tension there as he pulled up because three black guys in the car. And two, were acting up. And I go back to your original question hold bootstraps. It's a fallacy to believe that life is the same for all groups. And yes, having a phenomenal stick ridiculous work ethic is beneficial for everybody. For some, having that ridiculous work ethic, that indefatigable zeal for work, where you're tireless, and you're always there. Sometimes not enough,

is not enough. We say that when things happen to you. Sometimes it's comparable to a vector of force with movement in direction, but you can't see it. And for some, the vector feels like a tailwind, pushing you. And for others, the tailwind that the vector feels like a headwind, you're walking into it. You get there eventually, but it's slower, but you feel it, but you can't see it. And that's why when you say to your leadership, I'm working hard. I'm doing the same thing. But it's not happening for me. Keep working hard. And others Wow, you're how do you get that I'm working hard. Something else is there. You live with a tailwind? That's that's just my philosophy on pulling up from bootstraps and, and making the assumption that if I give my best, I'm going to get my best. I believe that when you give your best, you create possibilities for amazing things to happen. And I live my life that way. And when I do workshops, and I speak to high schools and college students, I tell them, Don't blame the culture. Don't blame the economy. Don't blame the world, shake them up, give them something to think about. Be the first be the pioneer, and then pave the way for others to join you at the party. Huh?

Yeah, first of all, I didn't expect the physics lesson dropping. that I love. I love that analogy. Right, where as someone who was born, you know, straight white, with more than enough in in, you know, a safe suburban town. Right. Like I I most certainly had a tailwind. Right. And, you know, I had parents that told me to live and live and follow my dreams. And I could do that without having to worry about true failure, because there was stability around me, right? This other people when they follow their dreams, when they fail, it looks a lot different than if I had failed. And it's not to say that my parents would have you know, funded me or whatnot. Even they would have told me to get my shit together still, but Right, but they you know, they could take me back in for a little while they could take me you know? Yeah, it's just different. Right. And that that so yeah, that the privileges is sometimes a tailwind in those situations. So I appreciate you articulating that because it's something that you always hear, just pick yourself up by your bootstraps and figure it out. Like Well, there's there's other things at play. And two people working the exact same at the exact same tenacity that look differently may wind up at two different places because of that now um, and so yeah, there's been

on beautifully on Women's History Month. You do your your your most recent research on the economy and income and you'll see that women still make 82 cents every man's dollar doing the same job. Yep, same job.

We thought about doing a gender reveal. Because first of all, those are problematic, but that's fine. But, but we thought about doing a gender reveal where we We would have a piggy bank. And if it's a boy that'd be $1. And if there's a girl there'd be at two cents

then our son then our son came out hits different because it's a boy was a girl that wouldn't you know, we I think we would have done that.

Now Now when he grows up, he's probably going to miss curfew a few times you're going to say, Come on, man, get it right. Let her Miss curfew, you're grounded for three years. Before midnight. Your son make a muscle your strong words don't hurt big boys don't cry. Come here, baby. Come on, sweetheart, princess, you're gonna be okay. What are we doing and how we're raising and coaching and quote, grammatically incorrect, but I love it anyway. And that is they become who you be. So as you are being they are becoming. So how are you treating them? And what are they turning into? Someone who's going to run through walls? Or someone who's going to make sure everyone is taken care of providing the support providing the shoulder? Why can't they both? do both?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's real. That's real. You know, you. You have all these stories, you have these experiences that you live Dr. James. And, and so many of them, you know, you still keep bringing up your your dad and your and your mom and the way that you were raised. I'm wondering, how does it shape? How does it shape who you are today as a parent, when you think about showing up as as yourself as a parent, you know, how, you know, you mentioned that, just because I saw this doesn't mean that's who I'm going to be right? I made the choice. But there are parts of your dad that you absolutely love. And this parts of your mother that you love. There's also parts of your mom that you say were like, Oh, those are tough, right? And yes, you can see the benefits of that as an adult. But you can also see some of the stories that you started to write about yourself as a child as well that you had that I've had to work through. As someone who's a new father, I always, I'm always intrigued by asking this question of how did how did some of those stories shape who you are today as a parent,

I give you a couple examples. Number one, in this example, where my wife and I would sometimes vehemently disagree on how our, our younger guy should be raised. I mean, he was two and three years old, and she was holding his hands going up and down the stairs and like, he could walk. He's on the spectrum, but he can walk, let him walk, let him learn, let him fall down. No, he doesn't need to fall down. And I learned from falling down. I wanted him even though he was nonverbal. He still God willing to grow up into a fine man who knows how to navigate steps, navigate the house without having a coach or having someone with him all the time. And I think about my daughter who is now 26 years old, she just joined the company. Yay. Just got married last year, yay. When I think about how she grew up, private schools Montessori School. And then when she got to ninth grade, my wife at the time, and I who were going through a divorce, business was slow. And we did not have enough money to keep her in private school. I wanted to meet my ex halfway. And she wanted me to pay for the entire thing. had a conversation with my daughter told her that, you know, she's gonna have to go to public school. And she said, Daddy, let's give it a try. I've never been in public school. But let's give it a try. And after the first year was over his time for 10th grade business a turned around, I'm ready to put her into private school. I can pay for the whole thing. And she said, Daddy, I want to stay in public school. This is the real world. I'm learning about life. We're in the private school. We get everything. We have the best of everything. I live that life. And I'm usually the only black person at the school. This school is diverse. It's character building. I'm not big personal campus, but I need to be grounded. I think I cried. I call that tissue. A tissue issue. Look at her. She wants to test so that she can have a testimony. She wants the mess to help with her message. And it's no secret that she's working for me now. She's doing well. All right social media. And if she makes a post, and I don't say, baby girl that was awesome, like, hold up with the good with the bad talk to me communicate your English major. So my parenting, in by and large is a product of how I was raised. And I had to check myself a few times because my daughter went home straight A's and a B, my focus would be on the B, rather than the straight A's. And that's right from how I was raised. So I've made some adjustments. But it played a role in how I parent, how I lead how I coach, what I share with my audience members and customers. Stop whining. Remind me about when Kobe and Shaq are a practice. And Shaq was upset because Kobe kept shooting the ball shooting the wall. And he said Kobe. There's no I in team. The Kobe said, I know. But there's an iron win. So I'm gonna help us win. I'm so I have to realize, and I coach my daughter, if it's going to happen, yes, you will be part of a team. But you play a key role in being accountable for what you're responsible for. And we don't do victim vocabulary. We don't say the word try. We don't say one day, eventually sometimes when I get around to it, we say now get it done now. Always work on your tan. And tan is tn N stands for take action now.

As a white boy, I need to work on my tan and

yeah, I love that, you know, and hearing how some of those things from your your youth how they drove that. And even even now as you are successful, right? You you, you have more than enough food or money to put food on the table. And right, you know, your daughter's wedding was beautiful. And and you were able to help out and you know, like, all right, like, I mean, it's just it was incredible, right that you have, you've built a life that is different than the one that you knew. And then you've built a safe place to to be able to raise children with special needs in the most supportive way possible. Because you know, they, it takes a little more time takes a little more money takes a little more resources in order to truly be able to take care of those folks the way they need to be taken care of.

And prayer patients in prayer are significant as well.

Yeah, for sure. Patience, prayer and paper.

Roll, He's on a roll, he can't stop and get out in this way.

I must be butter baby. So. But the but right you've, you've been able to build this. And that's and that's incredible. And so the last thing that I want to talk to you about is something that we're both passionate about, which is authenticity. And not everybody gets to show up and be their authentic self. Because for whatever reason they need to either either they've written a story themselves of I need to do this in order to fit in, or society has written the story for them of like, Hey, if you could code switch a little bit, and talk a little bit more like this or dress a little more like that, then you'll probably be able to have your hair look more like this. And you'll probably be able to get a little bit further and make some more people feel quote unquote comfortable. So that they can see you as X, Y or Z right? Women have to do this a lot. And, and obviously people of color for sure have to do this, you know, people who are who love people of their same gender have to do this, right, like and so. So authenticity is fascinating, something that we're both very passionate about. And you've been able to cultivate a life where you are now allowed to live out loud. And you've created a successful business where you are the CEO and the owner. And so you've been able to create a business and a life where you are allowed to show up authentic, wherever you want. But that isn't always been like that. And so, you know, I'm wondering, authenticity is a gift to be able to just show up as you are. But it bothers me that it's something that has to be earned for some folks. How would you speak to that?

Yeah. When I started my research on authenticity, I did it because a lot of the participants during my sessions would say I'm one way at home and then one way I work And I wondered, why couldn't they be one way all the time. And actually, I thought they were checking out. And I wasn't thinking about the number of years and corporate where I went along with it go along and get along, I just went along. I didn't speak truth to power. Because I thought if I did exit interview, HR and Yvonne will kept my mouth shut a lot. But I kept getting that having that premonition around explore this thing called authenticity. I did and after years of studying, I graduated thinking that authenticity wasn't a matter of either or authentic or inauthentic. It was a matter of degrees of authenticity, more or less, and given the situation either turned up or turned down. Because I don't believe based on my research, that we can be that we can say that we are authentic, or we are inauthentic. I believe we can say I was authentic in that moment. But I may not be as authentic the next time. James, you asked me what I did over the weekend, and I said, you know, just chill. I can give you more authenticity, and I chilled with three guys. I said at the pool. I had some IPAs, and some suicidal the hot hot wings. I can fill in the blanks. Yeah, but I believe that being your best you means being more authentic. Most of the time. It means speaking truth to power. It means recognizing that sometimes that truth to power is going to come with a penalty. Because whoever wherever you shared your truth, they didn't want to hear it. So now you're wounded. However, if you're really your best, the majority of the time you learn to walk with the wound. You're lighter. When you share your truth more. You don't feel all that tension and heaviness. Because listen, a baseball from game seven of the World Series that's authentic ball. It's not changing a Persian rug, jewelry, a painting that's authentic, but we as adults evolve and become every day. Given your circumstance, given the situation, I encourage you to consider when and where can I be more authentic. And if I can't be at here, I'm not going to blame them. I'm going to go to a place where I can be. And eventually that's what led me to start my own business. And funnily during my research, I talked to a lot of senior leaders asking them on a scale of one to 10. How often how authentic Are you on a daily basis, one being terrible and 10 being phenomenal. You are the authentic whisper. Some of them said three and four, their senior leaders. They don't give you everything you want. Sometimes I give you what you want to hear. I'm probably more authentic one on one than I am standing in front of the entire organization or doing a town meeting. I share what I believe you need to hear. I'm thinking oh wow. So there are three or four their senior leaders. And yet people from underrepresented groups who cover in their three and four. This workplace is full of trick or treaters everyday is Halloween, putting on a mask and trick or treating for performance and results. Yeah. So I strongly encourage people know that. Speaking up, calling Colin Kaepernick taking a knee Kakashi career could you have to determine what's best for you to share your truth to be the best possible version of you as often as possible. Or as they say, go along and get along fake it till you make it. What? And yes, people still do that. So I think authenticity is a phenomenal construct. I'm going to continue to continue to encourage people to be the best versions of themselves as often as possible. But really defining it and living it is like picking up a bar soap in the shower. It's tough to grasp because we live in a world where

coaches, politicians, teachers, sports reporters, journalists, they don't always share their truth. James you're the coach of the gosh, the Los Angeles Rams Super Bowl just two weeks ago who did they beat? Who did the Rams just beating the Bengals that bangles with achy with no icky play them today. But uh, the Bengals coach, they interviewed him. So what happened in the game coach will happen in game, I have to do a better job of putting my team in position to win. In the locker room. What happened?

You dropped that ball,

you fumble from the camera, I had to do a better job to help our team win. It was my fault. I didn't call the right place. Hey, come on, dude. But he knows if he comes clean that he throws his player under the bus immediately kill him. And they're gonna kill him for not sharing his truth. He's gonna lose his teammate gonna lose the trust. So in actuality, how authentic can we be on a daily basis? It's up to the individual. Yeah.

Yes, I love the the idea that it's authentic moments. Yes, authentic moments, as opposed to, you know, consistently living authenticity. I mean, you know, this, this is a game out here. Right? The workplace is a game politics is a game social, social life is a game and you have to play it, the more authentically, you can play it, yes, the happier you are, the lighter you are, and, and whatnot. But at the same time, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, safety and security are at the bottom because if you don't feel safe, if you don't feel secure, then you are you're not getting this authenticity. Right. Like I'm going to, I'm going to act in accordance in a way that I believe will be the safest for me right now. It's a basic human need. It's a gut. It's an instinct. And it's a it's powerful the way that you phrase that, and I loved hearing you talk about it. Thank you.

You're welcome. And you and I know full well, in this digital age we're living in where people have done their research on us and they know more about us and our family before we say welcome to the opportunity. Welcome to my presentation. The world doesn't want phony fake or pretend speakers. They can see right through that. They want us to live what we give. And if we don't, it's gonna bite us in the butt. People are very learned and sharper these days. And they can smell ambiguous ambiguity. They can smell fake, they can smell pretend like that. And what might have worked for us in the past? There's too much technology. There's too much information out there. To get us to continue. It'll come back. It'll come back to bite us.

You're right. You're right. Dr. James Smith, Jr. It has been a pleasure. My day Robo

Robo. I truly mean it. You hear it from everybody. My brother from another mother, my sister from another mister. Listen, your name is James. I'm James. You are my brother from another? Mother.

Honor? Honor. Yeah, I felt an instant connection with you. And if I had any questions the hug sealed it.

Hug you stop pedaling you and battle your my grandson.

I would I would have walked with my tail between my doctor Dr. James Smith, can you let people know where? Where can they find you? How can people stay in touch with you if they want to learn more about the work that you do in this world?

Absolutely. All social media at Dr. James Smith Jr. Website. Dr. James Smith jr.com. Website. Yes, website social media. Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn. Dr. James Smith, Jr. I think I'm going to add to it hashtag the diners favorite diner. I'm loving dining with the king of diners. Robo. Yes.

I respect it. I think it's great. I'm here for it. It's so it's so great hanging out with you. Thank you for your stories. Thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for your truth. And yeah, thanks for just dropping, dropping a lot of great nuggets on us today. It's so so fun kickin it with you. I appreciate you coming to the Dharma man.

Days real bow cleanse out one more real quick.

Let's go. Quote.

You'll always get what you've always gotten until you become the person you've never been. It's time for you to be that person. That's it. That's it. Go be that person.