Processing The Fall Out Of A Million Dollar Business with Tom Krieglstein - Encore

Welcome to diner talks with James. slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends. We never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be.

Friends, welcome to tonight's episode of diner talks with James. I'm James, what's going on? Good to see you. Thank you so much for coming out, y'all. I'm wearing this old school flannel. I've had this shirt for about 11 years. Some of you are like, we know. We know we saw you when you bought it in college. College was more than 11 years ago, too. Let's not talk about that. But let's jump in for tonight's top three. Top three. Here we go. Y'all. I played golf today because Tina's grandfather said, I want to play golf. And when the person's grandfather says I want to play golf, gosh darn it, you go and play golf friends. We're not going to talk about how I played but it brought up my top three golf memories that I've ever had in my life. The number three number three is I got to play 36 holes out in Oregon at a place called Bandon dunes and I was only supposed to play a team but the people I was playing with they're like go, we're going back out for another round you want to go we got to play into the sunset at some of the most gorgeous golf courses in the cliffs of Oregon. It was extremely gluttonous, extremely beautiful and just a memory that I will always have shout out to mom and dad being on the call. What's up mom and dad Good to see you appreciate you being here. That's number one. Or number three, I don't know how to do this. The middle one is I got a hole in one at my home golf course when I was in high school. That's where I was able Golf Course Number two hole was playing about 136 yards in the wind at a pitching wedge and dunked it, y'all, let's get it. Let's get it. That's amazing. I don't know where the scorecard is. I have no proof of it. I forgot to submit it to the PGA anyway, everything's fine. But trust me it happened because I bought the drinks afterwards. And next. My favorite golf memory of all time this happened two years ago, almost to the day is that my whole family got to go to Scotland. And I my dad told me about this. He said, James, your mother and I have decided that we've planning. We're planning our 70th Birthday trips, and we're really excited about it. We're going to go to Scotland and I'm going to get to play the old course at St. Andrews, the first golf course that was ever created. And I said sounds good dad, I'll be there. He said sounds good. James, you weren't invited. So I said cool. Yeah, but I'm gonna be there. Because I'm gonna need that memory with you. Because I mean, you're not allowed to die. So like don't but just in case you do, I'm gonna need to know that I was there for one of the most special days of your life. It will therefore become one of the most special days of my life. My brothers were able to join us. It was literally my dad's dream for some playing the old course in Scotland on a beautiful day with hysterically Irish caddies. Now Scottish guy, he's not Irish Gettys that would be more weird, but it was a really magical moments. Top three top three golf memories. Next, I was asked what are my top three favorite concerts that I've ever been to a champion of ever concerts? Here we go. First off, I did an internship in in Berkeley in California. And between my two years of grad school, I was out there for my birthday. My birthday is July 19. Coming up. Now I don't want you to celebrate it because I'm awkward about my birthdays. We can talk about that later. But I decided to poach tickets scalped tickets not poached tickets, that would be like shooting tickets illegally. But I scalped the tickets from I've never done that before, but went to go see Gnarls Barkley they're the ones that seeing

anyway, so we know that one, but y'all know that track. So I got to go out there. But it was funny because they came out on the stage. And they said we're very sorry. Gnarls Barkley is unable to be here tonight. But unfortunately, we have Sam Cook and the chefs and out came the entire Gnarls Barkley group, wearing chef's attire they had the backup singers were were dressed like servers and the the Gnarls Barkley and Danger Mouse had the chef's hat on they passed out free doughnuts to everybody. And they opened with Duran Duran is hungry like the wolf, amazing memory. Next I saw Jay Z and Eminem perform at Yankee Stadium was the first concert ever in the brand new Yankee Stadium. They brought out all sorts of guests. It was incredible JC as you remember from last week, the number one rapper of all time in my book. And last but not least, my whole family we got to go see Bob Dylan and Paul Simon performing math in my favorite concert venue, which is called Jones Beach and Long Island. My whole family is a diehard Paul Simon family. And so we're super excited to have that memory as well. Last but not least my friends the top three things that are still happening. The top three things that are still happening first off COVID-19 don't know if you've caught the memo, y'all please wear a damn mask. Thank you. Alright, number to something else that's still happening. Black lives still matter. Okay, they still matter. Alright. We're not talking politics right here. We're talking about humanity. Okay, cool. Thanks. Okay. Great. Cool. And also, the other thing that's still happening is Karen is still talking, Karen, I just need you to sit down. Okay, all the Karen's in the world. Alright, take a seat, my friends. That's tonight's top three. Top three. Thank you for tuning in. Let's get to the show today. Tonight on the show, we have a great man. His name is Tom Krieglstein don't worry about how to spell the last name. I still don't know either. But he is an exceptional human being with even better hair. And more than that, more than that. For me, I think I've told you this on this before and if I haven't, for me, I pick my mentors based on individuals that are about three, four years ahead of me in the game, because the bread crumbs that they're still leaving haven't disintegrated. And I love that the way this man carries himself as a human being. I love the way he carries himself as a speaker as an entrepreneur, and he has just a consistent wealth of sage advice and great laughs and he always takes me out for food that I've never eaten before in my life. And he's just an awesome human being. Y'all clap it out for the one and only Tom Krieglstein

J what's up? I was told I was just gonna freeze and hold it so that you thought that I was frozen to start the show off on a downslope because then you know what? You can only go up from there

you can open Yes, yeah, that's like, it's like when I step

on stage, I purposefully trip them over tumble over the stage, not the mic down, break the speaker system start a fire. So that when I get on stage, like honestly, anything I say from that moment forward is automatically better than how I entered stage.

It's automatically gold.

Kids if you're listening now, are your expectations low and work up from there. That's it. Exact life lesson number one, they're gonna rattle him off tonight

to two motivational speakers telling you keep yourself in your shame holes for a little while longer because I think you Batian period is really gonna pay off.

Yeah, yeah. James, I know you have some questions here. And we're gonna dig into the talk. But I realized it's diner talk. So I don't know about you, but I'm actually at a diner right now. They just delivered my coffee. So rather sip it. Yeah. Cheers to that. It's funny. This one says new mommy. too, too blessed to be stressed. I don't know. This is a unique diner. Let's just go with it. Exactly. And I'm pretty sure sorry, one more thing is I'm pretty sure appetizers just got served too because here's my soup but please carry on with the show.

Yeah, sure. What kind of soup or we indulging in right now.

Wow. Thanks for asking, James. This is this is a garden vegetable variety soup with some additional spinach put in and some cheese and if anyone cares. It's organic.

Oh, perfect. Good. We actually do actually a big organic following here on diner talks. Yeah, I know a lot of people are like what's going on there? What kind of cotton is that that you're wearing?

viewership just tanked. So let's get let's get go.

Here's an interesting thing. Why do we feel the need to say garden vegetables? Where else are people getting vegetables? Like it's like if we say garden vegetables were immediately picking like It's like some old woman. Some old man is like pluck this carrot from their hand. growed feel like that's why it was plucked with love from a home garden. The garden vegetable? Yeah,

I think about you know, I've explored the option of doing aeroponics. So that's like the vertical gardens without soil and everything. So would it then be called an arrow? ponic vegetable soup?

Maybe, maybe? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I'm excited later on when we get into the hydroponic portion of the show. And I'm excited about that. Tom, so good to see your brother. Here's a fun thing about you and I. We are both speakers predominantly in the college market, though we both dabble in the corporate world. And we're both actually setting our courses to do that a little bit more, which has been fun to learn from each other there. But

oh, James just a second. They just delivered the main course over here. Oh, good. Is it is pizza again. Again, it's magic. pizza. It's It's cheese on top with a little bit of spinach sprinkled in. And again, if anyone cares, it's organic but who you know if you care.

Boom organic drink Yeah, it is. I love that. Congratulations on getting your pizza delivered. I'm a little bit a little bit jealous brother. Is that Is that real cheese on there? Or is that like cashew cheese?

No, no I DO I DO DO I DO do real cheese

you to do real cheese? Perfect. Perfect did it? When did you when did you switch to being a when when did the vegetarian lifestyle come into your world? Brother? When When? When you saw that? That was the lifestyle for you? I can't wait longer question at this time, I guess.

Yeah, you couldn't have noticed based on the bite size? I did. Um, I wish I wish I had a great epic answer to this, that it was based around something like I, I was traveling to the Safari and just couldn't stomach it anymore. Something like that. But I don't. I was in high school. It was a Sunday night. And there's a Simpsons episode where Lisa Simpson becomes a vegetarian. You can shower and air that night, and the little lamb and the show said Don't eat me. And the next one. I went to bed that I went I went to bed that night and I said I'm gonna be a vegetarian. Woke up the next morning I just became vegetarian that was back in like 2009 or sorry, 1998 ish. 97. Yeah. And then I went through the cycle. I went through junk food vegetarian, I went to process meat vegetarian, I went to raw food. And no one wanted to be my friend when I was a raw foodist. No, I just stopped getting invited place. Ended up ended up somewhere in the space like so now where I'm at as I'm pescatarian of sorts, mostly because it's like, I kind of just want to eat what I want to eat. But I have no interest in me. It doesn't taste good to me. I've tried. I've certainly had it before, many times recently. And it just like, it's just not my thing. So I care about animals. I care about the earth. And I just, I like what I eat.

That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I think it is and I've loved it. Because when we lived in New York City together, I would always have you pick the restaurants. I'm normally the restaurant picker, like in the friend group that I'm in and just and also, it's just something I pride myself on. It's like, I got it. I know a guy I got a spot fishing, Alisha gonna look at me, you think I'm good? You know, I mean, come on. Right? And so like, so I always take advantage. I'm always I'm always that person. I love being able to carry that way for individuals. But I don't think I have once asked you can I please pick a restaurant for us to eat at because you have opened my eyes to so many cool different foods and different places and things like that. And I'm super grateful that you've let me use you in that way.

Anytime you want to use me, please.

Here's another interesting thing going back into colleges. Now that your hope your pizza is delicious to Steiner and makes great pizza. It's like all diners do make a high quality pizza. Continue. So the other interesting thing, right is that you know, and Martha talked about this here, right that that history books are also going to be rewritten during this time. Hopefully, let's let us please rewrite history in many away right now. And it's interesting because you and I, you and I are speakers and I do a number of diversity, equity inclusion programs and stuff like that. I know you touch on it in some of your programs, but it's never it's never necessarily the focus of that. And that's okay, right. That's, that's no shame in any way, shape, or form. But I'm wondering, especially as you do stuff around New Student Orientation, you're talking and to these new these new groups of students that are coming in, ideally, more on fire about this situation. I'm wondering, do you feel yourself like do you think you'll talk about it a little bit more than potentially you normally would.

Our main core message is creating a culture of connection. And a culture of connection is an environment a space in which everyone everyone feels welcome connected and engaged at all. There's all sorts of research at the university level and at the corporate level that talks about how valuable that level of engagement and connection means and matters, and so on. The only way we can get to a culture of connection is if everyone in that room feels like they belong there. And that will only happen when every voice is included, when different when different personalities, backgrounds, experiences, diversity, it's all brought together into that space. And instead of it pretending like it doesn't exist that it's actually talked about, and then also celebrate it. Because also behind that, as also, there's a lot of research talks about the value of diversity in a space, that the more ideas, the more backgrounds, more experiences that come to the table and a conversation, the more opportunities are going to come out of it. And so for us, it's a very much a part of the conversation. However, I don't come at it specifically from the diversity side, I come at it from the cultural connection side. And yes, Martha's saying dance word theory. Yeah. So dance floor theory is the training training. And the outcome of dance floor theory is it's to create a culture of connection within your team or organization where everyone feels welcome connected and engaged.

So, exactly. I love that man. I love the approach. Because we also know that not everybody is ready for someone to step onstage and, and jam, you know, some of these messages into their faces. Right. And so there is power to the onramp ers have the conversation, right? There's power to the individuals that are helping people get into the conversations be a part of conversations that have been happening for centuries, decades, centuries, right? And so so there's a way to get people in and kind of and get people to be like, oh, shoot, I guess that's kind of what they've been talking about. But I've been politicizing it when it didn't need to be politicized. It's really about humanity, connection, and some of those things. So I like that approach, brother. I'm excited to hear that you all aren't aren't shying away from it.

No, I will say one thing that is going to be a casualty of 2020. On our side is his free hugs. We're well known for it. It's a bit of a touchy subject right now. It's an open up your arms. It'd be like Come hug me smother all your germs. Yeah. We're gonna have to wait a little bit to bring that party back. Yeah,

for sure. But you hold a world record isn't?

Well, this is a long and peppered history, James. The short and the long of the short is that me, me and Guinness me and get us to not have a good relationship right now. Because I have broken the record twice and have been either taken over by someone else who broke it. And I disagree with their count method. And we've gone back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Because I've nothing better to do in my life. But to disagree with, with how many hugs. Someone got for those interested is most of our hugs by one person one minute, though, we're going to go again this fall and see if we can reclaim this record of most of our hugs by one person in one minute. So correction, not this fall. Some point later,

it's some full Yeah, what is it? What is your record right now?

Oh, okay. So there is no record right now. I have zero record right now, because of some some initially, it was a celebrity who over took it on the view, he went on the view and broke the record for most of our hugs by one person in one minute. And, and he actually, and it was just like, they're blatantly not according to the rules, but apparently, he paid the $10,000 or the view paid the $10,000 to get an official person there. And you know, if you get someone if you pay someone $10,000 Just show up apparently you kind of just get the record. Hashtag hashtag capitalism, you know, it's how it works.

Yeah, okay. No, I can I can I can smell the bitterness brother. And I understand because this record matters to you. And I'm very and I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I brought up such a touchy topic. Yeah, that's

okay. James, because I just realized that the diner continues on with the meals here. If dessert time, they actually just brought over they brought over some fresh strawberries, fresh strawberries.

mother's garden was garden strawberries, organic

strawberries. And then how nice of them to bring over some whipping cream. So I now have for dessert at your diner at diner talks I know have whipped cream and strawberries. Continue on with the conversation.

Yeah, no, this is perfect. This is what I wanted, but a more attractive man on him and have him eat whipped cream and strawberries in front of my entire audience. And then see how many people still follow me afterwards. Shout out to Can I get back? Where's my? Where's my server? All right, we got to get over here, the mini Minneapolis, diners are different.

All I hope all your future guests do a three course meal in front of you, and you as the host, and you as a host cannot eat? You

know, that's it? Well, you know, a wise man once said that leaders eat last. So what? So, Tom, here's the interesting thing is that you are someone who is passionate about about connection, right? Obviously you just said Your Own Your mission is culture of creating a culture of connection. And I'm wondering, when did you first realize that that was something that was important to you? Where you're like, Yo, this kind of changed the game. For me, this is something that I really want to point my ship at? Or was it just like, no one's talking about this? So let me fill in the gap. Was it? Was it a business move for you? Or was like, No, this matters at my core, and I want to tell other people why it matters should matter to them.

Man, that's a good, that's a good one, because that kind of digs into my past and my current. And so I was, I was very much the person that was on the outskirts of every social group in high school and growing up, not not in a bad way. I was just friends with all of them at a bobbin and Bob bow and kind of go, I never went deep with me. So that always kind of was a question for me. Then I got to college. And I made my really like a core group of deep friends there. And realize that in that space, how much the value of having a group of friends were, however, I never was giving my all to something. So then post college, I joined the Entrepreneurs Organization and got connected into a forum. And a forum is a group of eight to 10 people that meet monthly to really challenge and support each other to live life at its fullest. Based on our own terms, and I gave a ton to this organization, I gave a ton to the group. And this group allowed me to process through some of the most challenging moments of my life such as all going in debt, with a business or getting fired from a company, I was a part of that I had started grown a divorce that I went through a remarriage, they almost a sale of a business or a bankruptcy of a business. Every now and then in the group itself, we've gone through topics, and I realized that in that space, the world would be a better place. If everyone were plugged in to a positive supportive community. The challenge is most people aren't. And there's a great book called Bowling Alone, which talks about the demise of bowling leagues in the American society. And it connected it attached to a lot of social issues that are happening, and what the correlation or the hypothesis is that that in the United States, we are now less than less a part of groups that we go deep with for an extended period of time, we're more like the spiral graphs, where we like dip in, and then we dip out and we dip in and we dip out. But the real value and anyone who's looked into happiness and health knows that the real value comes from deep social connections with a small group of people over an extended period of time. And so for me, I think about that. And so now I think about how can I create a world in which everyone has an opportunity to be a part of that type of community? Period? That's

incredible. Period. I love that. I've never heard that. I've seen some of the stories within there. But I never I never heard the whole thing. And would you recommend Bowling Alone? By the way? If not, I just told everybody you did. But so it is. It's fascinating to me, because, you know, as someone who focuses a lot on connection, I don't know if you would identify as an introvert or an extrovert. Where do you where do you typically put yourself on that scale?

I'm be a verb. I'm right.

Right in the middle. Good. Thanks. We did not answer my question. And I'm a solid five in everything I do. Thank you. No, that's all okay. So you're so you're right in the middle of the ambivert. And, and, and for you, you know, through everything that you've been through everything that you've been through, I'm curious, like, let's go back to a couple of those things that you just kind of touched on a little bit. You know, the business that you had grown had started with with a friend of yours and then that whole thing kind of tanking. What was that experience like and how did you as a man and In that moment, own up to some of that to essentially what most would call failure. Right? And so I'd be curious to hear how did you, how did you decide to lean on people in that moment during what was a really dark period for you?

I met I met a guy named Kevin at a program where I got trained on facilitation called Quantum Learning Network. And it was entrepreneurial love at first sight. And he had come out of a tech company and wanted to get an education. And I was just starting to speak in education. So we started to talk about this idea of dance floor theory. And we brought that to the market in college. But along the way, his tech side started popping up of like, we should automate this bill this program to make this happen. And that led us down this road of building software that ultimately called Red Rover, got into tech stars here in New York City, and then went into corporate as knowledge management software. And that's all background to say that by the end of a several years, the work we were doing was not my passion. It was not my core. And I was I was the the minority shareholder. And if anyone's ever a minority shareholder in a company know that you do not have all the rights as the majority shareholder. And so Kevin, and the board, made the decision that I was no longer a good fit for the company, my company, the company, I started. And at the time, it felt horrible. Yeah, I kind of felt like someone was was rejecting me, and saying, I could not do it. And it hurt. And I, Kevin and I did not get along. I didn't like him for a long time. Spoiler alert, Kevin and I are best friends right now and and have been for a while. But in the moment, it was not a good situation, because I felt like he was rejecting me and rejecting my skills. And I went at the time I was part of a forum. And my form was I leaned on them. And I realized that, that everyone, and I'll just say this, because I do not enough training and facilitation. I know, everyone carries some sort of pain around with him. The problem is, most people have no place to release that pain. And so they're keeping it inside. And it's manifesting itself in a lot of different ways. In unhealthy ways. One of those biggest ways is with health itself. If we're not releasing the pain, it's going to show up in our health. But it also shows up as continually bad habits, whether it's in the next relationship, or in the next business or in our own self. And so I encourage anyone who's listening, if they have pain, find some way to release it. The number one top ways I'm just gonna recommend are with someone you trust. If you don't have that someone you trust, get a coach or a therapist, if you're willing to pay for it. You don't have to do that. I remember my freshman year of college, a speaker, Patrick Holmes, came to my school and he said, Hey, everyone, you know, like, I'm just going to give out a tip right now and those who hear it will hear it. I said, journal, I can't tell you how valuable journaling will be for you. But I'm telling you, it's one of the best things I've ever done in my life. So that night, I went home to my journal, I open it up and the first page in 2001 says, Dear journal, I don't know why I'm doing this. But Patrick told me to do it. Fast forward to my 40th birthday this year, and coming up on my 40th. And, and I still journal because journaling for me is a way to take the thoughts that just keep going back and forth, back and forth, and just release it somewhere. And it doesn't cost any money. So I don't so those are that that happened. That's how I took that that moment of the negative experience of of, of the of the getting fired, and allowing myself to at least find stability so that I can grow from it. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that man. And did that. Would you say that that happened pretty instantaneously of like, Yo, I got fired. I feel like I failed. Cool. I got this forum, let me lean in, or did you take a couple of months to be like, Yo, I suck like I'm tearing like, how did how did this happen? Like did you it? Was it was there? Was there a dark period in there? Or was your form kind of like right there was it was that safety and like right under the ledge that you just fell off of so you didn't actually fall that far.

Yeah, the safety net was there that is the value of having this group and again to anyone who's listening is put the put the effort in now to keep your core friends close to like, actually, I would encourage everyone you know, Dunbar has this number. That's the 140 It's like the number of people we can the human brain can socially keep in our in our brains is about 140 It varies, but it's not just there's 140 people that we can keep it there's actually tears and in his in his research he found that that start at around five, that their inner core is about five people. And then it's 10, then 15, bench 30, then 60, and then 120, or 140. So I encourage everyone to actually take their group of people and find that five to 10, write them down, and just figure out a way to repeatedly stay in touch to keep that connection going. Because in those moments when we when we need them, if we've done all the prior sort of like, relationship, building everything, they're going to be the ones that have the foundation, just hold us there, so that we don't drop all the way through.

Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful brother. I love that. I love that. And if you do that, the cool thing about you, Tom, is that you are a sell, subscribe, prescribe or whatever, whatever the right word is there. I'm not a granary. But you, you're a proud optimist, right? Optimism is something that runs through your veins, you can hear just by the way that you talk, right? It's like, you know, even in this moment, it's like, tell us about the dirt you're like, and then there was light. All right, cool. And, right. That's okay. Um, but I'm curious for you. When did that optimism come to play? Like, was that always a part of who you were? Is that something like, you know, if I, if we were to get your parents on here real quick. I'm ready. If we were gonna get them in here, where they be like, you know, our boys always been an optimist. And like, you know, where, when did you become an optimist?

Yes. Yeah. I have always been, I've always had a sparkle for hope.

So I read your Twitter profile. Yeah.

What's funny is you're about say in your like, your Tinder profile, but then you realize I'm fully married and awkward, then it'd be awkward why we you are on Tinder and our wives would have a conversation. Give me so in enlightenment, now is a book, if you want to throw that in the recommendation there enlightenment, I think pinker pink or something, something something Steven Steven something. Bill Gates said, it's the, if he could recommend one book to everyone, that would be the one book you'd have everyone read. And there's a there's a line in there that says, it talks about the philosophy that that he uses. And it talks about every problem is just a matter of a lack of information. And that's how I think about it. So I'm not it's not a blind optimism to if an issue comes up, and we're just going to, it's magically going to happen. This isn't like the secret, you know, like sit and wait and just manifest the the outcome. This is

my trip to Thailand. We pray

this, this is the idea that I do have a belief that there is a solution, I just don't have the information for it yet. And so what I'm going to do is give my all to it to figure it out. And so I'm going to put a lot of work into it. And this is, I'm going to put a lot of work into it. And then I'm going to be an overnight success in that space. And in 10 years. And I think that most people, especially younger generations, I'm talking about my college, is they want the success. Now they want to solve the problem now. And I'm telling them like it takes time, and especially if you're trying to do good work, it takes time. Yeah. Yeah, for

sure. I agree. It does. It does take the time. But it's hard. It's hard in those it's hard in that moment sometimes to see the light, right. Especially like, you know, we talked about, you mentioned some deeper things like divorce, and stuff like that. And right like, and there's there I mean, as someone you and I, you and I went through divorces, they were they were very different divorces, but at least the roles that we played in them and but but at the same time, there's a lot of darkness in there. And those are some tougher times sometimes come through but like knowing that there is that potential, like again, like just being able to start finding some of those answers to solve some of those problems or recognizing that we're just, you know, one answer away a few answers away, is beautiful. But there is also that power of sitting in it sometimes of sitting in it reflecting right and maybe that's what journaling is for you a little bit Do you think

in let me just talk about that. Sitting in it for a little while because the problem is, is that when I when I was in it, I didn't want to be in it at all. However, now that I'm not in it, and I recognize how much I learned in the lessons I learned, and like how powerful those lessons were, I wish there a way to simulate it without having to be in it. So then I can go and be like, well, I want to grow, I want to I, as a self help junkie, I kind of want, like, I want to get the lessons, but not have to actually experience it. But I think the challenge is, is like it has to be, we have to go to that deep place, and sit in that muck for a while to allow the lessons to happen that needed to happen. It's like a sports, top level sports people will never talk about the games, they want to always talk about the games they lost. Sure, no, and it's because it's like the best lessons are coming from those moments of just just pain. And then and I know in my divorce, that those were, that was that was horrible. That whole year was horrible for me. And I got through it. And I'm so thankful I got to experience it. Never want to experience again, I am never going to experience that again. And I am happily married to the woman that is amazing for me. However, I do love the lessons I learned about myself.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Do you find? Do you you journal do a journal every day weekly? How often? Would you say that you're you're putting them to bed? Or is it during just specific points of like, Hey, I'm kind of feeling down or I'm feeling really up like is it you have you noticed a pattern?

It's ideally it's every day, but I would say every second third day? Yeah, something goes in. Yeah. And I try not to just get like the down points. I also try and get the points and celebrate the winds. But I have I have hundreds of pages of journal, which are crazy. It's funny to look back on some of them like oh my god, I can't believe my mental space during that time. Have you journaled Have you tried

it? I have. Yeah, I have done some journaling. It was more of what you just talked about where it's like, pretty much only Dark. Like if I were to go back and read that, like I don't want anybody to ever see it was oh, wow, okay. Oh, this is this is a little dark. And yeah, it was mainly during that time. And also, I also journaled at the beginning of the relationship that I that I'm now in and married to Tina, I journal at the beginning, through some things that I was like, this part isn't perfect. Why does that matter? Why does that matter to me? Right? And like, you know, what about this? What about that? Because I think, you know, it's hard when you leave a relationship that was good, it just wasn't great. It's hard to then be like, Okay, well, then what is great, right? And it's easy to judge the other person to be like, Well, you're not great, right? It's like, No, bro, like, Why? Why does this thing bother you? And let's, let's talk about that. Right? And so journaling through some of that of like, you know, get over your own stuff and your own. Why, why are you putting this on other people when you need to be looking in the mirror some days. And so some of that was was healthy, and was not necessarily optimistic, but it wasn't all super dark. But those are the times where I found where I'm confused is when I turned to journaling. And when I am when I am very stressed out, and when I'm gogogo and I just feel like a super overwhelmed. That's when I turned to meditation. I know you also meditate yoga is your big practice in your world as well. And, and so but that's when I turned to meditation where it's like, I need to slow down. And I want to meditate more frequently now than I currently do. But I'm very grateful that I have that practice in my life, even to the to the small amount that it is

cool, I love it. And it's great to hear you're digging a bit into it because meditation was one of the things I did for years prior to the divorce. And it was essentially all I was doing was training. I didn't know I was I didn't know I was training to calm my brain down for something serious, but that's exactly what happened is because then I got to the actual moment. And my anxiety rose up and I remember it felt like someone was inside my stomach just punching me over and over and over again. Because of all that training and just breathing. I was able to calm down. Now, it was really big. And so yeah, I want to say Can I say something on the journaling for No, I can't write it down. No, please do. One thing that's important for anyone who wants to journal is the the why over the what. So when I journal I don't focus on what happened I focus on why what happened matters. So for example, James, you and I might get a puppy. And we both write in our journal. I got a puppy today exclamation point. And and leave it at that. And that's fine. But why does that puppy matter to you? I might say, because I'd love puppies. I've always wanted a puppy. But you might say, a puppy matters to me because Papa James would never allow me to have a puppy because he said we couldn't afford it. And only those who have money can have a puppy. And because now I'm financially free and on my own, I can truly buy a puppy. So to me, it means success. Now, all of a sudden, I understand that you haven't a puppy means a lot. And so that's the difference. Whenever I journal I put one line about what happened or two lines, but then the rest of it is why does that matter? Yeah.

That's beautiful man. That reminds me in musical improv, and musical improv, you know, in improv, we know the role of yes and right. You're constantly building saying yes, and here's how I feel about. And here's another piece of information and musical improv where you have an accompanist on the side of the stage from you and, and there's a moment and a typical music where the two characters like Oh, on remote, and so our emotions are so high, we can no longer talk, we must sing, and the accompanist comes in. Right, and they start thinking about their emotions. Like that moment, what the accompanist is looking for is a watt is a why, because it's not just, we're not gonna sing about how we all just got bicycles, we're gonna sing about what this bicycle means, right? It's the opportunity to create wealth, it's the opportunity to leave a home that is broken, it's the opportunity to for freedom, like whatever, but like finding that why is super important. And this is when, when so many people that so many people come up to us, they're like, oh, I want to be a speaker, or I want a speaker. Right? And it's like, and they want to know how to do it. And I think, you know, one thing that I believe you do, as well as we back it up is let's talk about the why first, like, like, why why do you want to do this? And okay, if that is your why is speaking the best way for you to deliver your why or is it teaching? Or is it coaching? Or is it this right? Like, there are so many when we back it up, instead of just seeing the shiny thing. When we back it up, we start to unpack like, Oh, here's the core. here's the here's the trunk of the tree. Where are we going from here?

Yeah, that's good. I remember someone. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. And yes. And I got my bicycle and you know, my bicycle. I remember, because I'm a huge fan of reading too. And so I somewhere I heard the quote that I read to lose myself, but I write to find myself. And so I today, I was actually writing a ton for our dancewear theory book, culture connection book. And it's like 46,000 words into it. But as I write it, I just feel so much of the like, the passion for these smoothies, like communities and groups coming in. And so yeah, just a huge proponent of journaling that I love. And, and whipped cream,

and whipped cream. Here we go. All right. All right. This is getting a little weird. And your whipped cream has gotten a little bit too sexy. John, let's jump into a segment of the show that I like to call things you didn't know about me, but are now glad that you do. It's a long title, but I think it's worth it. Makes sense? So I am so I'm curious, Tom, you know, we got we both have some random facts that we have about ourselves. And so I will I'll share a fact first about myself and then I would love to hear a random fact about you. How's that sound?

Great. I love random facts.

Perfect. Here we go. My first pet. My first pet was a fish. It was a fish tank multiple multiple pets. It was a fish tank. And there was a blue gourami in there that I love to death. That was the only fish that lasted more than two weeks. I was a terrible father. But this blue gourami lasted for almost a year, so much so that all of the other fish got the proper typical fish burial aka the toilet run. Shout out to Nemo. But the but but the blue gourami we made a headstone for and buried out front because it was just such a long running member of our family. Thank you.

Thank you just a moment of silence

What do you got brother

and middle school? I used to carry around a picture of a famous celebrity of my own wallet. Actually, sorry high school and high school used to carry around a picture of a famous celebrity in my wallet because I so wanted my hair to look just like his hair. And so it was inspiration for me at any given moment. Plus, when I went to the barber I kept trying to get my hair to look just like this celebrity. And so that celebrity is Brad Pitt. Oh 1998

Incredible. How long did you rock the Brad Pitt hairstyle?

So freshman, sophomore, junior year of high school, and then by senior year, I cut it. And then it went Backstreet Boys. And then eventually I rounded out to a style that's now called the COVID. Cut. Yes, hashtag trademark. There, you got that. Let

me let me let me take the logo down here. So you can see that that is happening right here. My friends, Tom previously known as the best hair in higher ed. I love it, brother. Here's a fun fact. That's embarrassing that I didn't anticipate sharing right now. But you know, when we are younger and learning about ourselves, particularly as young boys, we we become attracted to different things. And and so you know, the age that we grew up in, we're only we're only two years apart. So I know we grew up at the same age. But we grew up with three and a half inch, they were called floppy disks. But there wasn't anything floppy about them. But three half inch floppy disks. And so I used to save images of a female celebrities that I found very attractive on the three and a half inch floppy disks. And and I hit them. And I hit them. And then I eventually went away to college. And it was around my junior year around my junior year. And I respect my father for the way that he did this. But he waited for a family dinner, a family dinner, he had cleaned out the garage did the computer area, we have upgraded our computers back at home, and whatnot. And before he did that, he wanted to make sure there was nothing important on any of the floppy disks that he found. And so the computer was long gone, you no longer had even a computer that could use this. It was then I came home with like Thanksgiving, or maybe the following summer at a barbecue or something like that. And he goes in a moment of silence is Hey, James, by the way, I found your discs. And I was like I buy this. I was like three years ago, right? Like I didn't even I was like, What are you talking about? He's like, Oh, you don't remember. And then he proceeded to tell everybody at the party what was on these floppy disk. And though I was embarrassed, I was also incredibly, extremely proud of him.

It's great that the surprising thing is that he had a floppy disk drive, still to be able to use them. You know, like,

Oh, he didn't know he had gotten rid of Ray he was right before. I guess he thrown out that computer when I was around. I agree. Thank you, my brother. But yeah, apparently he had thrown out that computer. And right before he threw it out. He's like, let me just make sure there's nothing important on here. So and then he just held on to that memory, which was beautiful. So you wrote to him with one more?

When I Oh, yeah, this is a good one. I was I was doing at work over in Indonesia for a summer program over there. And, and one of my co workers lost her her passport. So we're at the airport, and we definitely, like needed to get back to the states to do another program. Yeah. So we're at the airport on a Sunday or whatever. And she lost it. And they said they're like the security guards there. And like, there's no way we're gonna you could get through, or you need to talk to counsel and get a passport. And, and so, but the car was closed, and suddenly someone would have to wait till Monday. So bad news, basically. And the guy had like a big guns. And he was one of the local Indonesian immigration people and he leaves the room. And while he leaves, I turned to my coworker and I think we should try and bribe him. And, and yeah, hashtag white privilege showing up real strong, because I thought that would be a good idea. So he comes back in the room in my partner, the partner was like, no way. There's no I'm not. I have no part in this at all. It's like, come back. The guy comes back in the room. It's like, I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do. So I reached into my pocket and I grabbed whatever like physical cash I had. And I placed on the table and I slide it over to him. And I say Will this change your mind? Because we're like in this and I lift my hand up, and it's the equipment and he starts laughing. And I'm like, and I looked down I want to see how much I put there. And it's roughly like Indonesia, that ends up being about five US dollars. So he said, Yeah, he started hysterically laughing and I like nervously go ha ha, like laughing with him thinking it's funny. And so he takes up a piece of paper stamps it, hands it to us. And he says, I'll tell you what this will get you to Paris on. But once you're in Paris, you'll have to deal with them there and figure it out. But at least they'll get out of Indonesia. He says, All I ask is for one favor from you. And I go anything like what is it? And he goes, when I come to your country, can you treat me as well as I have treated you here? And I was like, like, I don't know about our immigration here in the US, but I cannot think I cannot thank that guy. Enough for letting us through. But more importantly, I cannot thank him enough for not putting me on the next episode of locked up abroad because that was like two steps from being on that show.

Wow, dude, that's crazy. How long ago was this? When was this?

2008? Nine.

Okay, yeah. Did he take the $5?

No, no, no, it didn't take it didn't take it.

Like you showed him. America.

Man, yeah, that was, yeah, that was that's that, uh, one of my lesser moments of paying attention to what I should or shouldn't do. Decision Making. That's yeah.

That's, that's, that's rich right there, brother. I appreciate it. Let's jump back.

I know, James, I would love to go travel to Indonesia with you. I got some extra money.

Oh, perfect. Yeah, no, that thank you. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Thanks so much. I'm sure inflation isn't a thing there. And we're going to be great. I mean, wonderful. I love can you have a passport now? Yes, sir. Cool, cool. Cool. Great. That's funny, because we're not allowed to leave the United States anymore.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. In fact, everyone's blocking us. rightfully so because we're, we're causing the trouble now. Which, yeah,

yeah. wear a mask? Some Yep. Anyway, anyway. So here's an interesting thing, damn, is that you are, again, as we talked about, you're passionate about connection, and you're passionate about creating connection for others. But as you mentioned, you just entered a new, absolutely beautiful marriage. Your wedding was stunning. And it was such a perfect day as a wedding should be location with a win a 10. And a 10. Would go again. But, but still, but you also entered a fascinating relationship as well. And so I'm curious, you now entered a role of being step a step dead. And so I just be curious to hear as someone who is passionate about connection, and someone who is trying to create moments of individuals who that create safety that create spaces where they can live and be free. I be curious, how has, how has that been for you in entering a new family like that?

Yeah. James, first off, let me say on the wedding, if I need to make sure I shout out to MC because MC was stellar. Five out of five on Yelp. I think if anyone's looking for an emcee, he's right there. His name is James.

Either bar last names.

James James was on point as the emcee of the wedding. So again, thank you for that make it happen. But yes, I did. I did marry a woman, a beautiful woman, amazing woman's way smarter than I am woman who had a bonus, which was a daughter. And for me, that was something I wasn't looking for. However, I am blessed and happy that she came into my life and I came into her life. And I quickly like I do with everything. I went in, try to find as many books as I could about the topic and read and try to understand it. And surprisingly, there's not a ton. But yet, about 50% of the youth in America live with just one biological parent doesn't mean they live with one another. But it means that they're either in a single home or they have a step parent of some sort. Yeah. And the majority of those are step dads because typically, the woman, the child stays with a woman afterwards. Typically I'm not saying this always but statistically that's the case. So I entered into this and, and we said we wanted to do it, right. Like we just want to show that blended families can be a beautiful thing. And it is it really, really is There's so many amazing moments that we get to have as a family and we even came up with a name for myself which is Tata which is dad and Serbian concert mom Serbian, my wife Serbian. So that's dad and Serbian. And, and it was similar to like dance or theater that has that levels of engagement. The same is true like we just built into it slowly to the point where i She is my daughter and I am her dad. I am her Tata. And, and I think I lucked out because she's simply just an amazing daughter in an all possible aspects of it. I honestly think if the Dalai Lama passes away, you know, and they go on the search for the new Dalai Lama, they're gonna knock on our door and be like, we have come for her. Take her

around the globe at all points. Like it's just something different about her in a really cool way.

Yeah, it's just like, even, it's just her ability to process emotions and think about it, write about it, reflect on it, or just, I learned so much from her every day. And so for me, it's a blessing to be able to guide her with what I know about life. And I'm really happy.

That's beautiful, man. That's beautiful. I love that. And I love watching. I love watching the way that you handle. You all handle a situation that like you're right. I mean, there aren't a lot of books about and we all know the examples more so than when people get it wrong. And when people get it right. And it's really it's really beautiful to watch the way that you put in the work. And I think it's also interesting, because you had the opportunity to go to Serbia at least once or twice now, now and big language barrier there for you. You know, I'm sure you knew the pleasantries. But but you didn't know a ton of it. I'd be curious again, as someone who prides themselves on making connection, how was that for you in you know, go into that go into Serbia and, and go into a place where you wanted to impress? Right, like everybody wants to impress their person's family and be like, well, let me show you what I have. So great, right. And the hair only gets you so far. And so I'm wondering, how was that experience for you in meeting her family, and trying to get them to fall in love with you beyond the fact that she liked you?

Yeah, so some tips first wear a shirt that says everything's bigger in America with the Texas flag, and then have a big jar of peanut butter. Those are like two ways that way over anyone in the world, you are

passionate about peanut butter. That is something we share in common. Sure.

But, but in all seriousness, I will say there's the difference between a tourist and a traveler. The tourist shows up and says that I what I know is right, and I'm going to show you all why it's right. And the traveler shows up and with a curious and open mind. And so for me, when we think about connection, is I show up at a space that I know very little about the history. I know very though about the culture and so but I show up with an open mind and curiosity to want to learn. And I've traveled to 50 some countries around the world. And it never fails to show up with that type of mentality as a way to be able to break down the ice and connect with people. And I'll say this just a final note is that everyone around the world is way nicer than they are on the news. And I'm never the yeah, there's a guy who got paid to travel around the world dancing everywhere, Matt something and and he said it someone asked him like where was the most dangerous place you've ever been? And he said, he said like, miss the US. Like, oh, so I felt nothing but love all over the world, honestly.

Yeah. That's beautiful, man. That's beautiful. Did you have any? Did you have any awkward moments where you said the wrong thing or any? Any funny moments happened while you were over there?

Yeah, one of the big ones is your Minnesota in Minnesota. Nice for sure. Oh,

there we go. Okay. Yeah,

born in Michigan grew up in Illinois, Midwest, you know, and Midwest like you don't ruffle the feathers Don't rock the boat. Like keep everything if there's conflict, this is a bad thing. Just hold your opinion to yourself kind of deal. And honestly, it Eastern Europe is not that way at all. And and so I remember there's this conversation. My wife and her sister were having it was like going and my sense of like, oh my gosh, what is happening in this conversation? They're fighting. And they came after I say, Well, what are you talking about? It's like, that was a serious fight you're having and he goes, Oh, we're just talking about the weather. I was like, that's the weather Good lord, I can only imagine what a real fight sounds like. So it's been that's been a learning curve for me is understanding that, culturally in the Midwest, that conflict was a bad thing. And I've actually had to rewrite that for myself quite a bit, both in business and in life, but in my relationship is that conflict can be really healthy if it's done, right. And I've learned a lot. I've worked a lot on that to allow myself to have healthy conflict and be okay with it.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a beautiful message. Man. I once heard a stand up comic here in Minnesota, say listen, you'll never, you'll never be able to win a fight with a Minnesotan because you just keep punching them in the face. And they just keep apologizing. It's funny, because we went to, we went to before we moved here, we went to a number we came back and went to a number of family Christmases, and that they're a great time team. He's got a great family here. But it's so funny because you know, you do the whatever the white elephant or the whatever the gift exchange thing is, or, or sometimes they'll or sometimes they'll do, they'll pick, you know, they kind of alternate doing that one year. And then the other year, they pick names of the hat and you get one person and like secret santa type stuff. And, and so whenever it's a secret Santa's year, it is it is sometimes painful to be there. Because literally right before anybody opens up their gift, like okay, go ahead, Antares here, it's your turn. And then whoever bought anterior the gift will immediately out themselves, and just be like, I'm so sorry, it's probably the wrong size, you're probably not going to like it. I really, I don't even know if it's like you. But I like I saw it. I just really thought it could be you. And I just really thought I'm so I'm just really sorry. You haven't removed one piece of tape from the wrapping yet. And I was like, What are we doing here is a humorous a humorous, true Minnesota moment that I've experienced. Now, maybe I mean, and being raised in New York now and Brian being in New York, and we were raised on Long Island. So we're a little softer, right? We're not like we're in the Bronx, like that. My dad is from the Bronx. And you'll be able to tell that when you meet him. But, but But still, I just never grew up in that in that situation. And so now whenever Tina's mom apologized to me about something, she's like, I'm sorry. I know, the chicken is a little bit, you know, or I'm sorry. You know, I know that I put my shoes in your way, like five feet in the path close to where you may walk one time in the next 20 days. And I'm always like, thank you. I think I needed that. They just don't they don't know what to do with me. I don't know if they've determine if they like me yet or not. But it's been fun. Have you have you

have you in terms of your like, does not LSA desire for conflict or your desire to like, attack the problem? Like, let's talk about the issue directly. And you had to tone that down in the Midwest? Or do you feel like you're doing it? And then there's consequences of it? Because everyone's saying sorry, back to you.

Yeah, I don't it depends on the person. But I'm definitely hey, let's let's come for the neck. Right? Like, let's, let's go, let's get it out there. Like, everybody's talking about everybody in this passive aggressive way. But we're actually ever getting to the issue. Right. And, and it's, it's a lot of like, showing, so it's talking to so and so about so and so. But no one's talking to so and so. And, and I've just noticed that a number in friend groups and family groups and a bunch of groups around here. And so, yeah, I don't know, there were some times where like, I don't know, even sometimes when I'm talking to like waiters. Like I said, I said, I sent a sandwich that I had back the other day, and the people at the table were like, you're doing what? Wow, I need to say like, what are you doing? No, no, you should. And like everybody was blown away that I like sent something back. I was like, it was burnt. It was a burnt sandwich. Like like watch it crumble. And they were like literally people still talk about like Jimmy said sandwiches makeover Right? Like there was the news.

Said sandwiches back. Yeah, that's a it's a truth. That's why I am here on the East Coast. And I like these coasts, because it's a I get the I get to be a bit more direct. But I've had to learn definitely had to learn it's not it's not it didn't come naturally for me. It still doesn't come natural for me.

Yeah, for sure. John, brother. I'm so excited that we got to hang out this evening, man. So don't kick it with you. I hope you'll hang out for some for some q&a. Are you down to deceive people have said some questions that got asked in the chat. You down hang out for a little bit.

I certainly am. While you're while you're queuing up those questions I'm just gonna make I had two comments here. One was about the the Karen the name Karen. I am I am short selling the stock and the name Karen because I guarantee no one's naming their children Karen anymore. Just like I really hope Tom continues to only be a history thing of like Uncle Tom, and they're a new thing. I'm like, I remember when I became an uncle, my family was like, we're not gonna use Uncle Tom. We're just not going to use it. You're gonna be worried. They call me uncle moss because they didn't want to have that historical reference. And I was like, Okay, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. So that one. And then I was curious what poached tickets were but no, I thought it was like a food thing. A reference to diner talks. But I think I understand now. Are you gonna teach me?

I don't even know. When or when do I say that one?

In your in your top three. When you're talking about concerts and stuff? You said poached. And then you said scout?

Scout? Yeah, I just say scout. Yeah.

Poached. I got like, you know, you poach an egg?

Yeah. Yeah. If you want to poach a ticket, you got to get the water spinning first, and the vinegar in there. And then you drop the ticket in.

John, thank you so much for coming through. I appreciate it. Hey, y'all. If you're listening to the podcast, and you want to hear more from Tom, make sure that you check out my YouTube page, just type in James a lot on YouTube. It'll punch in and check out my episode with Thomas. You can hear this awesome q&a with him. Thank you so much for listening to podcasts. please like please subscribe, and you all have an amazing day.