A Healthy Dose of Perspective in Nursing with Paula Leweke | ETS05

Hey nurses It's Sandra here your host of the end the silence podcast providing a platform for real raw and authentic stories of nurses from across our great nation and beyond. My guest today is Paula Leckie. I hope I said that right? Pronounce like the Lucky. Lucky Okay, I'm gonna start again. LaVake LABaki love, love, love are key lever key lever key. Okay, that's okay. I'm gonna start to get anyways. All right. Hey nurses. It's Sandra here your host of the end the silence podcast providing a platform for real raw and authentic stories of nurses from across our great nation and beyond. My guest today is Paula Luckey. Born in Albuquerque, New Mexico, she and her family moved to McBride BC when she was 10 years old. She has been a registered nurse for 45 years working in the ICUs right here in Prince George BC. And also as a community health nurse up in terrace BC. She has taught nursing in three different colleges and two universities, and is currently residing in teaching in beautiful Victoria on Vancouver Island. She tells me that she has loved 95% of her 1000s of students over her decades of teaching, and just finished teaching a research course for the University of Brandon, Manitoba, and is currently leading a practicum group in acute care and community nursing. She also has a global health knowledge and experience having been to Namibia and the Philippines with students as well as up in the Yukon. Her passions also extend to her 12 Horses traveling and her eight grandchildren. With this wealth of experience and years of participation in the Canadian healthcare system. This is going to be loaded with so much insight and wisdom. And I'm so excited to dive in. Welcome to the podcast. Paula,

thank you. Thank you, I'm super excited about it as well. So thank you for inviting me.

Yes, yes. And I just, you know, I want to dive right in and just start hearing a little bit about you a little bit more about your story and, you know, 45 years in nursing, that's, you know, that's, that's a wealth of experience. And, you know, just I'm sure it's been a roller coaster of things that you have gone through. But I also would imagine that you've noticed some some real significant patterns in the healthcare culture. So, but before we even get into that, I want to I want to hear a little bit more about you and your story.

Well, um, I went to Vancouver general School of Nursing. I started in 1973. I graduated in 1976. And at that time, believe it or not, there was a there weren't a lot of jobs and so but I was hired as a brand new grad in Prince George BC in ICU and, and the head nurse at the time her name was duty Rothenberger said to me that she would give me three months trial because they had never hired a brand new grad before. And I just thrived in that environment. There was a course that we took right in print stores Regional Hospital, because I had never been an ICU nurse before. And within six months, I was a relief charge nurse which blows me away right now thinking that I was 21 years old. And already a relief charge nurse and ICU. And at that time, I knew I wanted to do my degree right away because degrees were relatively new. There was one class that had graduated from or that was in the University of Victoria at the time, UBC had started a bachelor's program about it was relatively new in Canada. So I actually went went back to school in 1977. And I was the second class to at the University of Victoria.

Wow. Wow. Yeah. It's making me think of like, even back then, nursing had still had the philosophy of sink or swim.

Yes. With training. You're so true. And you know what, back then we didn't even question it. It had been part like at that time at Vancouver general. So I'm, you know, I'm sort of a dinosaur here. But at that time at Vancouver general the whole hospital was run by students. On on the units there was one that nurse and maybe assistant head nurse and an evening supervisor, but students staffed Vancouver General Hospital, it was a huge hospital. And I remember being on a medical floor where junior students did all the care and senior students were the the leaders. And so, you know, when I think back about it now, because I've been an instructor for so many years, how scary that was in like, we got very little supervision. So, you know, after supervising students myself all these years, I wonder, you know, some of the things that happened, and yet, on the whole, I think patients got an amazing, good care. So, you know, just something to think about that we've actually, in the last 45 years come a long way. But you are right, we are still sometimes in that sink or swim culture, especially since for the last few years. Yeah.

And, you know, I think it's good to always have a healthy dose of a different perspective, right to be able to look back at that many years ago and see just a glimpse of what it was like, and maybe you can, you know, enlighten us a little bit more about what it was like to be, you know, in that kind of environment. That doesn't, I mean, it doesn't sound to me, you know, I've been a nurse for 15 years, and it's like, I have never really felt super supported. Or resourced. Right. So what was it like back then when it sounds like there was significantly less than what we have now?

Yes. Back then, in terms of when I was a student, or back then when I came to print storage to work in intensive care?

Yeah. When you were when you were working? I mean, if it trickles into students, that's fine, too.

Yeah, sure. Well, I did have an amazing mentor at that time. Her name was Joan Lemke, she was an incredibly gifted nurse. And she mentored us all plus, at that time, we still had a lot of very experienced nurses that were there that you could turn to, if there were any problems. But you know, we did it all. At that time in Prince George, if there were difficulties starting IVs out on the floor, it was the ICU nurses that went out to do it, and all the cardiac arrests, everything and so, yes, it was sink or swim, but, you know, I sort of dove in and, and the patients received really good care. It was, at that time, in, you know, history of nursing. You know, we were one on one with patients, and they received really excellent care. And we had the support of respiratory techs, and, you know, heart monitors, they weren't anywhere near as sophisticated as the heart monitors and the technology or today, but for the that time in history, I think they received really good care.

Yeah, yeah, can you you know, I mean, even you saying one to one makes me think of I mean, that's a, that's an indication of maybe why they had so much better care, not better, as in like, we're not giving good care now, but the constraints on us to provide the level of care that we really, that we're trained for, but also that we desire to give as nurses. And I'm curious, you know, if you can maybe even help us with some more perspective to of seeing, you know, as you've come through all these years, and, you know, was there the same level of psychological and moral and kind of traumatic injury that we're seeing today in nurses back then? Or what do you see

if I think it's at an all time high right now? Obviously, I keep I've been doing a lot of advocacy for nurses and speaking out and being interviewed by CTV and other podcasts, as well as this one. And a lot of nurses have been reaching out to me and telling me absolutely horror story. So as compared to when I graduate, not graduated, and I was a brand new nurse, compared to now I think it's at an all time low. Like I've heard recently in Victoria, over Christmas holidays where there was certain postdoc with acute surgical patients where there was so many, many ill sick nurses who called in that it was two nurses to, like 25 patients, like how can you care for two? How could two nurses possibly care for all of these post op patients? So I personally think now is the worst worst time and, you know, recently I've had and I've had tons, like tons of nurses reached out to me. So these are just two samples, where a nurse in mental health who was attacked by one of her patients, her client Since, and it was in acute care in acute mental health. And because there weren't enough security guards, and there weren't enough staff on the unit, by the time people got there to help her, she received very severe head trauma. So, in answer to your questions, I think we were better staffed in, you know, 1976 77. And through those years, even into the 80s, and even into the 90s, and the beginning of the 2000s. I just really feel that staffing is at an all time crisis now.

Yeah. And, you know, a lot of what I talked about is this, you know, psychological moral injury. But do you see is there like, is there something else that's happening that has led us to this that has, you know, kind of put us in this really critical place? I mean, we are we are in a crisis right now, we can't dance around that. And you know, your perspective and saying that this is the this is the all time low of the profession, or high, as far as you know, our rates of nurses who are off or who are sick, injured, or leaving altogether? Yeah. Is there is there, what else do you see is happening?

Well, what what is really heartbreaking for me is because I've literally had 1000s of students. The last, like, 25 years or so, I've been in Victoria. And so really top top, students who went on to becoming topped up nurses don't stay, they get, they get frustrated, they get, as you said, morally distressed, because they cannot give the care that is required, and that they've been, you know, taught and the critical thinking that they've learned and so they they leave instead of stay. And so unless they are the only wage earner in their family so that they cannot leave, those people are caught more in a web of making sure that their family is provided for but I have a lot of nurses that have reached out to me and over the years working on a lot of the units, some some of the really amazing nurses that have left is just heartbreaking. And and it's because I think they are not valued enough. And really, when you look at cost effectiveness, I think the health authorities and the government need to realize that it's way more cost effective to support your staff than it is to lose really experienced nurses. And I just three days ago, I heard a story where, you know, brand new grads were in charge of the unit and and they were the ones that were educating and orientating other new staff and, you know, we need to cling on to our experienced staff and our mentors to keep people safe to keep patients safe to keep nurses safe. And it's, you know, we're we're, people say educate more nurses. But the reality is that we only have so many clinical placements for nursing students. So I personally think the key is to keep the staff to support them, to respect them, to empower them to make decisions, to really hang on to the experienced staff. So there's not a huge turnover. I can go on to a unit. And in about two hours, I can see what kind of leadership there is. And if the staff are felt are feeling supported and valued. There's usually less staff turnover. But I also know that I've worked with amazing, amazing leadership, like nurse managers, and they sort of banging their heads on the wall because they're middle management, and they're not allowed the autonomy and the respect to help support their staff in order to keep them. So I think leadership needs to change administration needs to start valuing All nurses at all levels, and especially at the bedside.

Yeah, it's, um, you know, one point, I want to make back to what you were saying about supporting the ones that are here, right? Like how they're saying, educate more nurses. It's the whole recruitment and retention, right. And I made a post last summer and it kind of went wild with, with attention. And it was really about, like, you know, do we need more nurses? Or do we just need to focus our attention on supporting the nurses that are here so that we don't lose them? Because Is there really a shortage of nurses? Or is there a shortage of nurses willing to sacrifice their lives anymore for this job? Now, that's where I kind of get, you know, I get quite emotional because it's, well, I mean, in the work I do, I see it every day. And I'm sure you're seeing it everyday to just the struggle, the heaviness, the pain, and the suffering that is happening right now is, I mean, it's it's huge, and it's overwhelming. And, you know, as we kind of sit right now, and you're you're talking about all these levels of you know, management and leadership and executive and administration, really, it's the entire system, right? We are the workers of the system. And we are suffering, which is how it goes in any system, right, if the system is not functioning optimally, and and what I have noticed over the last two years, is really a dismantling of our system. And I see it coming down. And I I'm not sure. I mean, that creates a whole lot of uncertainty and fear for people too. So yeah, what what's your sort of your experience or what you're witnessing, as far as you know, what's happening? What's happening in our system right now?

Well, it's, it's very frightening, I think, if things don't turn around our whole healthcare system, and then in, especially in British Columbia, because I think it's worse in British Columbia, I think it's bad everywhere. Because, you know, in the US and back east and Ontario, like I hear a lot of the very same stories over and over. But I think in British Columbia, for the last 20 years, it has been on a downhill slide. And it and the issues were never addressed. And so that's why we're not only seeing nurses leave in droves, but we are seeing doctors leave in droves. I just saw an article just a couple of days ago, where there's 900,000 People in British Columbia without family doctors, I know for a fact there's 100,000, in Victoria, where I live. And so people are not getting care, they're not getting follow ups. They're, you know, traditionally doctors would see you through your lifetime, you know, they would help you deliver your babies. And you know, they would be there through your lifetime. But now, doctors don't want to stay anymore for a variety of reasons. And nurses are also leaving in droves. So it, but I hear because when I was interviewed on CTV, the CTV reporter actually questioned that the Minister of Health, and he's in denial about how bad it is. He said, Either that or the health authorities are not telling him how bad it is. Because it's a mess out there. And it our whole system is going to crash. Yeah, so that's just my perspective. I think it's scary. And I'm trying to tell people that they need to wake up, and they need to start lobbying their MLAs and their MPs and saying this is not adequate. We have universal we're supposed to have universal health care in Canada. And we still have amazing doctors, we do an amazing nurses. But it's gonna crash if things aren't turned around.

Yeah. And then that crash makes me think of, you know, I've used the analogy of like, the almost like the Titanic, right? It's like the ship's going down. And there's going to be people who get off because they're like, I'm not going down with the ship, right? I'm not. They recognize I'm worth more. I deserve better, and they're going to go, but then there's those people on the ship, who stay to try to, you know, to try to keep it Yeah, to try to save it. And that's, I mean, that's where I feel the fear is for those people that are staying on the ship. Because what's going to happen with more people leaving less stuff Have less resources, less support, less, you know, attention, less voice to speak up for what they need. And it's almost like no matter how much you speak up, no one's listening. No one's listening.

That's the frustrating part. And I want to echo exactly what you said is that I hear this over and over again, from staff that the really dedicated ones, the ones that you were just talking about, that will go down with the ship fighting every last moment. And they tell me they go in sick, because they know that if they don't go in, their colleagues who they respect and admire, will be so short staffed, that they won't be able to give care. And so I've heard this over and over again, and they work. They work, they're working themselves to death, like they're, you know, they don't get holidays half the time, you know, they, they get called in on their days off, because staffing calls them nonstop. And those are the people that are holding it all together. But I have so much empathy for them.

And, and a question of how long can they sustain? Right? How long can you be the glue in something that is absolutely falling apart? All around you? And yeah, you know, I hear that I hear the same stories of, you know, I went in anyways, because even though I felt sick, and you know, I didn't sleep all night, and I'm worried and I'm stressed and my family needs me because, you know, we're also are as a society going through a crazy shitstorm. And, you know, the stress levels are at an all time high. And, but yet they go in and it's like, you know, eventually what I see as a trajectory for for so many and myself was in the same place as like the we can't avoid and ignore our suffering forever. It's not sustainable. Yeah. So

no, absolutely. And you know, like a week ago, I was talking to some homecare nurses that are precepting my students, and they were seeing because there's such a lack of family doctors right now that, you know, patients are turning to them and actually wanting them to function at the level of a nurse practitioner. And that's not in their scope of practice. And so, you know, they're desperate. And they said that, a lot of times, some of the specialists, like the pain control clinic at the cancer clinic, or whatever, will step in and order prescriptions, because there's no family doctor, but so there are amazing physicians that are trying to hold it together to the whole system. But it's, yeah, it is. It's a huge worry.

So I mean, a part of me when I, you know, when, when I sit and I talk about this, and I feel the heaviness of everything that's happening in the suffering and in so many, you know, yeah, like, you're talking about nurses, but also, you know, doctors and the other staff that are in there. It you know, there's, there's parts of me that are like, this feels hopeless, and, and, you know, I can't deny that part because it's definitely speaking, but then there is a part of me, and a bigger part that believes there has to be hope. So, so how do we, how do we, I mean, a part of what I do is my intention is to support nurses who are staying on the ship and those who are getting off to like, I'll be real, there's there are nurses I work with that are getting off and they're like, I want to see what what else is out there. For me, I can't go I can't continue this way I need to do something different. I mean, being a nurse is like it's a part of our heart, right? It's not necessarily the job title that you hold, it's, it's who we are and how we serve and how we show up for people and care for people. And so but the other you know, the other group of nurses who are the majority are the ones that are staying and you know, I'm I'm all about how can we how can we find the light how can we find hope for ourselves and you know, I'd love to hear your kind of your take on that and your your how you're facilitating being that light and being that hope for, for the nurses that you're seeing and working with?

Yeah, it's interesting, because I've thought about this a lot. And I just want to preface this by saying, I've been a nurse for 45 years. I absolutely loved my career. And that is what has sustained me and I'm still working. And I love working with students. I just there's parts of nursing that is I'm so passionate about I loved you know, traveling to Namibia and going to the Philippines and going to the Yukon like it. It's an amazing career with so much diversity, that if you get really burned out in one area, there's tons of other areas that you can go to. So I want to offer that as a little bit of hope. But also, I've thought about this a lot in terms of resilience. So nurses do need to speak up, they do need to, to fight for better quality of care for better staffing. But also, I thought about, you know, the people that survived Auschwitz, and all the horrible things that happened, you know, during World War Two, and I've met a lot of them over the years, and what and so their lives were horrendous. And yet, what really struck me as amazing is they come out, still with an amazing sense of humor. And I think that this is something that could be helpful for everybody is to find that thing that gives you light and love. And even though you're going through really horrendous hard times, to hang on to the part that gives you light and love and hope. And, and it's different things for a lot of people. But we all need to find what makes us give us that hope. For me, it's my grandchildren, I mean, you know, they are the light of my lives. And you know, every day, I just had my two year old granddaughter and everything, she says she just lights up a room. And for me also is my horses. So, you know, when when I escape, and I come home, and I come to my horses, they're what gives me the courage to carry on, and still fight for nursing. After 45 years. I mean, I should be retired and traveling in Arizona right now. And that's definitely a goal. But, you know, I have loved nursing and so I want to encourage nurses to hang on to the part that lights up their soul and, and also to learn how to, as hard as it is to do what I used to teach my students compartmentalize their lives. So you know, when you have a really hard day, and you're morally distressed, how can you kind of contain that. So, you know, maybe go home and talk about it for about an hour. I know you can't talk about anything confidential, but then shut that door and contain it, and then go on with the rest of your your life. Because you can't you can't let it control every moment of your life or it will destroy you.

Yeah, there's so many things that were just pinging in my mind as you were talking. And first of all, there's a there's a book that was and you may have heard of it, that was written by a survivor of the Holocaust. And it's called A Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. And it's, I think, a very powerful book that would align a lot with what, you know, nurses specifically what we're going through, because, yeah, it was, you know, the darkest of dark time, and they came out of that awful, life threatening huge amounts of fear and terror, with a with a whole new perspective. And I think, you know, it trickles into what you're talking about, about finding the the pieces that keep you feeling whole, that keep that keep you aligned with your light and love. And, you know, it's a big part of what I see, you know, in what I teach and you know, you're talking about also like, releasing, right letting, letting go of some of the stuff that is built up on you because we can't just turn it off. I've realized that I had for my whole career. I was like, How do I turn it off? How do I leave work and just shut off the dial and not deal with that. But the truth is, is that when you don't deal with it, it will come it will show up. It's not going away, just because you've left the unit, your the stress response and the emotions and the trauma that you've possibly witnessed or experience. It's still spiraling inside of you. Yeah, so we need to find healthy outlets. That is for sure. And so yes, talking with people who are supportive, journaling, you know, as cliche as that might sound it's a really powerful thing that we can do. Making space for ourselves right so for refueling and just you know, whether it's doing meditation or it's going for a walk in the woods by yourself or it's just sitting and reading a book and drinking tea or it's going to do something enjoyable and fun for yourself, just making prioritizing ourselves when we are outside of that environment. And you know, I could go on on so many different trails. With all the different tools that I teach people and practices and ways that we can build that resilience as much as I don't like even using that word, because it's become so loaded with a shame, really, and so, yeah, so it's, I don't like to use the word, but at the same time that we all understand what that means. And so it's, you know, I really do appreciate what you're saying is just that, you know, it does feel hopeless. And if you sit in that, that space of like, Oh, my God, how awful this is, and all of the storm, that spiraling around you, and you go into work, and it's this constant, you know, stress response, and then you leave, and you come home, and you've got family needs, and you've got this and this and this, it can feel so overwhelming. But to start to look for those, those windows, of, of hope in your own life, you know, maybe the profession is not feeling that hopeful right now, but there's so many other things in life that that could fill that for you. And that will also build that internal, that internal strength to continue the fight. And that's what I hear you saying that, you know, is a lot of what you've done too. And I, I want to give you a chance to to share with us, you know a little more about that. The reason that everybody keeps going back, right? There's, they're the people that are still there on the ship, right, and you that are still on the ship like that are willing to fight that are willing to stay, you know, what keeps us coming back what has kept you coming back all these years?

Well, as I said before, I love nursing, I love students. I love working with staff, I love patients, and role modeling to students how to give like really taught care and communicate to people I actually have a master's degree and in counseling, so I've kind of combined that love over the years and and that's what keeps the flame lighted. And, you know, as well as a worldwide nursing shortage, and I know I'm a nurse, but there's actually a North American shortage of nursing instructors as well. And it's amazing how many people my age, are still teaching. And I think that a lot of it is because of this passion that they want. They still feel that there's a need for them to mentor people, and to be that role model. And so yeah, I've just, I've just loved nursing. And if I could highlight a little bit about, you know, when I did international nursing, would that be appropriate? Oh, for

sure. Please share anything. Yeah.

So one thing, and I know this might sound a little judgmental, so I apologize if it does. But, you know, when I, when I it was actually a colleague of mine, her name is Eileen green, and she set up she went, she went to look for opportunities to set up global health experiences. And she is the one that actually developed the opportunity to go to Namibia, in Africa. And she developed, she still feeds people there. So when she went looking, she contacted the University of Namibia and through that was able to set up the opportunity for nursing students to go there. Through Camosun College and also through the University of Victoria, unfortunately, because of COVID that is all shut down. And I hope it will start again. But when I went there, and we went to with eight student nurses there about half of them four were second year students and for and for were first year students. And before we went like these students were into like designer clothes, they just thought that if they didn't wear Lululemon or you know, have name brand clothes that the world would end and when we when we got to Namibia, we had taken 11 suitcases full of supplies. So we took surgical support, you know, dressings, and all kinds of stuff with us. And once we worked there for a little while, they started realizing what was truly important in the world of nursing. And it was love and compassion, and many, many other things that they realized that when people that in Namibia line up for days to get vaccinations for their children, as compared to Canada where we take it all for granted, because we've grown up and your generation has always grown up, and they've had vaccines. And they also would line up for days to get into the HIV clinic to get HIV antiretroviral drugs. And the people they're the Namibian people don't take anything for granted. Because they have to fight for everything they have to fight for, you know, their children's house. Many, many children die in Namibia. It's it's getting better, but maybe not since COVID. But it was starting to turn around about but we were in a very impoverished hospital. And the the town of Windhoek was a German colony. And it's like downtown Victoria. And it was a huge sophisticated banking system and everything, when paved roads and lights and everything, and then you go 20 minutes out of out of Namibia. And there's, you know, hundreds of 1000s of corrugated huts with no running water, maybe one bathroom for 50 homes. And you see the children they're playing with like, plastic garbage bags, because they don't have toys, and they don't have anything. And it really made the students realize what is important in life. And it's, you know, friends and family and significant others and so many things that in Canada, just by being born in Canada, we won the lottery, we won a lottery by being born in Canada. And I just want to share one more experience we did, we did healthcare assessment day with 160 children that were being fed at my friend's school and that she's provided food for and we start up stations with these first and second year students. And the second year, students had to take the lead. And then each station had there was an another three instructors, there was one, two from UVA, Ken and myself at that time, I was working at Camosun. And so we did stations looking at system. So we had had, we would have a neurological station or cardiovascular station and taking the GI station we sort of in the student and the little children, they varied in age from like two up to about 12 or 13 went through all these stations and we assessed them. And then based on that, there were 16 children that we deemed really critically ill. And so eight of them went to like a walk in clinic and I went with students with the other aid to the hospital. And the the amazing thing to me is that I myself, fell in love with a lot of these little children. I mean, they're so fragile and so amazing. And I carried a 10 year old child all day long in my arms. I mean, I could not carry a 10 year old child in Canada, they wouldn't be too heavy for me. But this child was really ill and was burning up had a huge fever. And I wrapped her in my my jacket. And I carried her all day long as we walk through the hospital, waiting in line to get up to the pharmacy. So again, things that we take for granted in Canada. And when I got to the pharmacy door, they closed after waiting for hours. They closed the door, because they went on their lunch break. And you know, I was so angry at that stage that I literally wanted to break down the door because after waiting for hours and with the sick child in my lap, but you know, we had no choices. And you know, that child did make it through she actually, I think was sponsored by somebody and went to Germany to go to school. And a lot of those kids because I was in Namibia in 2011 have grads have grown up and they have families of their own. So I guess the reason I'm telling you that story is that there's always hope. And sometimes we find hope in the smallest things. But this is to me something that will stay with me for the rest of my life, you know? Yeah, yeah.

I think what a valuable experience for for you and for all those students that got to come on those trips. And, you know, as I'm thinking back, when I was in nursing school, and I had all the pamphlets for doctors without borders, and I was, you know, I was set up to, to travel to, to volunteer as well, I never went life, life got in the way. But I, you know, there's, there's like a small fragment of regret there because I think those kinds of experiences do help shape us as human beings and help us to give, to hold a different perspective, right to see things in a different light. And, you know, what I'm also translating from that story, too, is that when we think about nursing here in Canada, and how you know, how sick our system is, and how many of us are suffering, and just, you know, with burnout, and moral and psychological injury and trauma, traumatic injury, too, and just how we kind of get stuck in that place of the suffering. But that a part of maybe finding some hope is really spending some time reconnecting with with why, why, why did we get into this? Why do we want to stay? Why are we putting ourselves in these positions to keep coming back, and to really connect with that, you know, I talk in my program about the concept of dharma, and how we, you know, it's just, it's a pretty global concept, but it's also about tapping into those passions of ours, and, you know, our unique desires for how we want to serve and support and show up and be and be in the world. And, and I think so many nurses, you know, if we sat down and really spent time digging into that, and thinking about it, of course, there would be a, you know, a volcano of other stuff that would come up, but maybe beneath all of the rubble is, is that, that truth of why we're in this job, and why we keep coming back to it. And I do believe that, you know, connecting with that is going to spark hope, and a light for some of these nurses to follow. Because we're not through it yet. You know, not even close. So we have to be really, you know, I know, in my, in my seat I'm in is, you know, thinking about those nurses on the ship? And how can I best support them? And how can I? How can I offer them, you know, the, what I've learned and what's helped me and translate that into their lives, and how can it help them and, and really, you know, a big thing I say, is like taking back control of your life and just acknowledging our suffering and sitting in the muck of all the crud that we are in and the suffering, but then also looking for ways out right, and we don't have to, it isn't hopeless, it isn't hopeless, that we have choice and we can change things. And using our voice, even though it feels like no one is freakin listening, continuing to use our voice, and I'm curious, you know, maybe before we before we leave, if you could offer the listeners, you know, what have been some of the most helpful resources or tools or practices that have helped you, you know, withstand the system and withstand all the the hardship that has come and the difficulties and the stress and everything, what what's been some of the most helpful things for you.

Um, I think, as you mentioned before, reflecting on your experiences, journaling, always looking for the bright light in the day. Because every day, even the worst day, there can be a bright light at the end of the day, like maybe during your day when you are so frustrated, maybe that particular day, you you are able to hold somebody's hand or, you know, morally support somebody that is going through cancer. But always, always look for Love Light and the hope for me, that's what's maintained my career over, you know, 45 years is that and, as I said before, you know, making sure that your, your life at home, whatever it is, and for whatever reason, there is areas within your home life that gives you comfort, and support and hope. But if you need to reach out to like a mental health professional to, you know, to go for counseling, or to reach out to somebody like you that gives people hope and motivation to still to continue in this career. That's what's helped me a lot for me personally. And as I said before, for me, it's been horses. But it can't be horses for everybody I understand that. But you know, when when my life is really going downhill, like when I went through a divorce when I went through cancer, when I went through really horrendous, I shattered my leg, I broke it in 25 places. And I couldn't walk for a year, you know, for me was always not to stay in, like, I went through a bit of a depression after I shot shattered my leg, but I woke up one day, and I thought, I don't want to be a bitter angry person for the rest of my life. I want to go on with my life. And so, you know, I love traveling, I love my grandchildren, I love you know, as I said before, 95% of my students, I love my students. And it's just finding those things that give you meaning and hope and purpose in your life.

Yeah, and then following them,

and following them. You know, I still stay, or some students still stay in touch with me. And it's, you know, I see them as they're having their babies and raising their children. And, you know, what's really neat is now one of my colleagues, actually, this has happened twice. One of my colleagues at Camosun College, her daughter is now one of my students. So it's the continuation, you know, it's, it's that circle of life, and the continuation of life. And her, you know, her daughter is a real bright spot in the world. And so, you know, she's obviously had a long career herself, and she loved nursing enough that her daughter also chose to go into nursing as well. So it's, it's giving people hope, and not just dwelling in, in the horrendous things. Yeah,

yeah, you're so right. Because when we dwell there, we become victims. And when we, when we start to try to find different perspective, or try to find a different lens through which to see everything and trying to find those light, light aspects, it's, it's taking, even if it's just a small percent, it's taking control, it's saying, I'm not, I'm not willing to let this suck me down to let us take me out. You know, I talked about that as like being on the edge, when you're in that place where you recognize and are really being truthful, and seeing the suffering that you're going through, or the difficulty of your your life circumstance at that time, which a lot of people I think, in nursing, particularly right now are on that edge. But I think actually, you know, throughout our whole, all people are a lot of them are on that edge right now. And seeing like, you know, where they've, where life is really not meeting their needs, right, where they're really feeling unfulfilled. And then that place being on that edge, I actually think is quite an exciting point, although it's terrifying for most, right, because it's recognizing that a holy, I gotta change some things here. And it's going it's can be overwhelming and scary. But also, you know, my, from my point of view, it's exciting. Because what happens when you're at that place, and you decide I'm going to take back my life is so much magic. Right? You, you it's and it's so it is kind of exciting, although I do appreciate it. It's also terrifying.

And it takes a lot of courage and a lot of strength. And, you know, yeah, so it's it's finding that courage and finding that strength. And as I said before, is, you know, hanging on to the joy and not leaving your sense of humor behind, you know, like, I want to tell you a little story about when I was in print storage. So we're talking a long, long time ago, but there was an internist and I don't know, he's probably retired now. His name was Dr. Bishop, and he was this gorgeous black man. And all the nurses had crushes on him because even though he was married, but one day, we he came in every morning into ICU, and we'd put his lab coat on before he went out to make the rounds. And sometimes we would play little jokes on him. And he had such a good sense of humor that he would go along with it. And so we would put stuff on the back of his his lab coat, like a smiley sign or, you know, or something that he didn't even realize was on there. And he would make the rounds all day with a smiley sounds. Sign on his back. But, you know, so doing humorous things that is not hurtful to people. Really, a nurses traditionally have had amazing senses of humor, you know, like, I remember back to when I was a student at Vancouver general and we all live there in the residence back in those days, which And I still, we still have reunions, I still am in contact with all of my classmates. So I think that is one of the benefits that maybe I had over other generations that have come is that we lived together for three years. So we became really good friends. But one thing that we would do is when people went away on holidays is we would sometimes take all of their furniture out of their, their dorm room, and, and hide it. And so they'd come back and there'd be no furniture in their room. And we just thought this was hilarious. And then everybody would laugh, and we'd get on with our day. But you know, like finding, still connecting with that sense of being a child, I guess, but having a sense of humor and doing things that are fun that make you giggle and laugh, but that is not hurtful or harmful to anybody,

huh? Yeah. It's like not taking everything so serious, because everything is so freakin serious. And we've talked to lean on another in past episodes, we've talked a lot like humor tends to come up in every conversation, actually. Because I think and it's even in literature, right, talking about the inherent sense of humor, and that natural resilience that so many nurses hold as dark and as you know, as black as a humor can get sometimes it's, it's so important, but I wonder if right now, too, we've kind of lost that. Because it's so heavy, right? So if there is, you know, little ways that we can bring back some, some laughter and some light into into these really dark, dense, heavy, yeah, workplaces, in scenarios. I mean, it would make a huge difference. I've talked about, you know, dance too. And like how how I could imagine, you know, this unit, that is where the nurses are dancing as they come on to shift and they're dancing as they leave shift. Like, if you could write like, that would be amazing, I

think, yeah, it's just when

you're in that overwhelm, it's like, it's so hard to find a spark to do anything, even though you know, it will help. I just, you know, I always like, You got to claw your way to it sometimes because you know, you're worth it. Because, you know, you deserve to feel something different. And, you know, we're talking about, like, what we were talking about before of, like, you know, turning off work? Well, that's a great way to make that transition, right, is to have a little dance party, maybe you're on the way out, yeah, yeah, that's five minutes in your car, where you just breathe and feel and then do some journaling, and then set a you know, some affirmations and then go home. I mean, it doesn't have to be a much bigger process than that. But it's creating, you know, getting some hugs, when you get home to those are really important. Also, like feeling coming home to a place that feels safe for you. And you can find that, you know, on your, on your floor to like your colleagues that, you know, giving, giving really long, obnoxiously long hugs are super, super powerful for sending messages to our body that we're safe, because we're at work, and we're on and we're in that you know that that stress response all day, all day long, 12 hours going, and then all of a sudden, we're supposed to just turn it off and you know, go home and be just relaxed and present with our families. And it just that's not realistic, there has to be a transition in there. So yeah, so many amazing nuggets. I, you know, I'm sure I share

one We're experienced with oh my gosh, please, triggered me, but on one of the medical floors that I go to, and actually, I don't know if they're still there, but at one time, the nurse manager, the clinical nurse educator, and the clinical nurse leader, we're all ex students of mine. And it was an amazing place to take students to because I had instant credibility, like when you go to a new unit, and you're a new instructor, that's not known, you have to sort of prove your worth, which is challenging in itself. But anyway, I had credibility. But I remember one time, and this was actually a year ago, so it's during the pandemic pediatric nurse was diverted to this very acute medical floor. And she came on the unit and she was so stressed and on the verge of tears. And the highlight and the role modeling for students is what I'm going to share with you today because the clinical nurse leader came up to this nurse put her arm around her and said, do not worry. We won't get you to do anything right now except for answer the call bells will you be okay? If you just answer the call bells We won't give you you know, a patient load right now because I know you're feeling overwhelmed. And I want you to know that I'm going to support you and I'm going to hold you by the hand every step of the way. And what the students said to me is they can see the stress Ask her out of that nurses face and her level of relaxation knowing that she was being supported in her moment of stress, and that they weren't going to expect anything of her other than what she was capable of giving at that moment, just lighten her load. And they said the rest of the day when amazing.

It's just highlighting the beauty of humanity. Right? Yes. Yeah. And that's, it's, it's not any more. It's not any more than that, that people need right to just to feel heard, to feel seen, to feel, you know, supported.

It's not judged, you know, not

judged. Yeah, I don't think nurses are asking for any more than that. And no. So this has been such a ride, having this conversation with you. I have really enjoyed it. And I'm sure we could talk for another couple hours about, you know, stories and everything that would would come out. And I'm curious if there's just if there's anything you want to leave us with, before we go.

No, that's mainly it. Just to take your career to take charge of your career, to love your career and to find the light.

Yeah, as simple as that sounds, right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It's been wonderful. Thank you. You're very welcome.