Mental Health in Entrepreneurship

Shulamit Ber Levtov: When you pause to take in the weight of those things, right to really take in what it is I'm trying to accomplish as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, and what I have to face, it's no wonder that there are times when it's going to be hard. It's absolutely no wonder that you have mental challenges to your mental and emotional well being. Maybe you might even experience mental illness like depression or anxiety or burnout, right? Because what we're trying to do is hard. And it will have an impact on us. It's not a question of f in our businesses, but when, because it's the nature of the work. So when it hits you, you can you can say to yourself, Well, I'm dealing with x, y, z 123. Like no wonder, of course, there's nothing wrong with me, who wouldn't be feeling this way.

This is the Entrepreneur Sschool Podcast where we believe you can run a thriving business and still make your family a priority. This show is all about supporting you the emerging or early stage Entrepreneur on your journey from solopreneur to CEO while wearing all of the other hats in your life. My name is Kelly Sinclair and I'm a brand and marketing strategist who started a business with two kids under 3am, a corporate PR girl turned entrepreneur after I learned the hard way that life is too short to waste doing things that burn you out. On this show, you'll hear inspiring stories from other business owners on their journey, and learn strategies to help you grow a profitable business, while making it all fit into the life that you want. Welcome to Entrepreneur School.

Hello, Shula, I am so pumped to talk to you about such an important topic. today. We're talking about mental health for entrepreneurs. And like, we could probably be here for six hours tapping conversation, we're gonna try and keep it short. So please, can you tell us first of all, the really interesting way that you work with entrepreneurs as a therapist.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: So the way that I work in 30, day windows of support, because I find that entrepreneurs are so busy, and stuff is always coming up, right. And so while it's important to have the face to face dedicated time, which in that 30 days, we have twice, but I also provide what I call implementation support, where folks have voiced note access to me, between sessions, because that's when the crap is going to hit the fan, right. And it's such an emotional roller coaster running a business, that to have somebody where like, you might have a best biz bestie or a best friend or a partner in whom you can confide. And there may be things that you feel more vulnerable about and but to carry those on your own is very taxing, right. And so you can drop a voice note to say, that crop has hit the finger. I'm feeling so stressed out. Or if something you want to celebrate something, you can celebrate it with me if you want a little bit of coaching, right. So it's that wraparound kind of support for 30 days for folks that really fits in with the entrepreneurial lifestyle, because, again, you can send me a voicemail 24/7 I will respond within my business boundaries, of course, but life happens and you want to be able to connect right and have a safe place to put those things. So that's how I do it.

Yeah, so important for entrepreneurs to have an outlet, like you said, and and as a like, therapist, as opposed to a business coach or person in a mastermind program with you like his bestie, as you said, somebody who brings that different perspective, what are some of the main things that your clients bring up with you?

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Well, there's a lot of emotional labor. I'll thank Diane winger of the driven woman podcast for pointing out I mean, I knew about that. It was it was hard on your emotions, but she named it emotional labor. And as women. We are very familiar with the term emotional labor, but we I at least had always related it to what I do in my relationship. in heterosexual relationships, most women are the ones who are doing the emotional labor for the family, right? Caring for the emotions of the folks around them. Well as business owners, we care for the emotions of everybody around us because we are holding space for our clients, for our, for our contractors, for our employees, anybody. It's not appropriate for us to when stuff comes up to just be like bled all over the person because we're in the leadership role. But then what do we do with all the stuff that comes up in us emotionally around our relationships with these people, and this emotional labor. And we are isolated from these people by that that's a fact an aspect of our isolation as entrepreneurs. And so together, like isolation is a big topic. We are isolated in many, many ways as business owners. And this emotional labor is one particular way that we are isolated. And so to have a place where you can process all that and talk it through without harming the relationships with your clients, or with your contractors or with your employees or with your business partners, right? You want to because we're responsible for those relationships, we want to care for them. But we don't want to carry that on our backs. Right? Yeah. And so that's one example of, of the kind of things that folks will work on.

Yeah, cuz I can see how you know, when we're out there facing all of the things and even just thinking about one area, which is social media, when you put yourself out there on social media, and then you're just opening up the floodgates to anybody's opinions, positive, negative, whatever happens, and then you're supposed to, what are you supposed to do with that? When it comes in at you? And you're, you know, there's this everyone says, you know, just be your own self, and who cares what other people think and blah, blah, blah, yes, but, but that has to go somewhere for right.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: And I'll thank Meg case board for bringing this up. She talks about feminine conditioning, that women we are conditioned in our socialization people who identify it or socialized as women, our first impulse is to say, What's the matter with we what have I done wrong. And so for us, when we're in that position of vulnerability, like you say, holding a leadership position, particularly on social media, where we are open, and also vulnerable. When someone throws something at us, our first instinct because we've been socialized into it is to go, something's wrong with me. Right? And it takes this as an example of emotional labor, right? We have to we have to metabolize inside ourselves, and sort out, okay, where's this coming from? What does this mean? What is my response to it, without falling into the oh, there must be something wrong with me, or I must have done something wrong, that trap, which, as a public figure, and a leader can like sink your ship really fast, right. And, again, I'll credit Brene Brown for this one, she talks about what it takes to be a daring leader. And to take a stand on things or to take a position, again, to come back to social media, where you and I both take positions on social media, around our areas of expertise. It takes courage and things when we do that there was going there are going to be things that suck aspects of that experience that suck. And she talks about embracing the stuck. And what because it's there's no way that it's all the time going to feel great to be a daring leader to be courageous, right? And our capacity to embrace the suck depends on our resources and our support. And so when you're feeling shaken like that, yes, of course, you could talk to your therapist, that's me. But it also takes more than one person, it takes a whole community to remind you of your values and remind you why you said that thing and remind you that it matters so that you can stay firm, and true to your values. So that, let's say in quotation marks, assaults, right? Emotional assaults, things that land that are difficult to hear. Don't shake you off your foundation. Right? You need a whole community, a whole network. And we assume especially because on social media, we just see the one person I don't maybe I shouldn't say we but I certainly I've seen people and I know I myself assume that I should be able to embrace the suck on my own but no, what we need is to be resourced and what resource means is to have a wide network of support.

Hmm, oh, there were so many good things in there. around like not, you would say it better than this. How do you not take it personally?

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yes. Well, that's the thing. To take something personally means that you are interpreting it as meaning that your innate value as a human being has been diminished. So we often talk about this with kids where you distinguish between the between the behavior and the human. And you say to the kid, like what you did was a mistake, but you are not a mistake. There's nothing wrong with you as a human being. You are perfectly worthy person, and this thing was not a good thing to do. So let's talk about how we could do this thing differently right? To come to us as adults am To apply that same principle, of course, our first impulse is to take it that it means Oh, oh, well, I'm a bad human. I'm a bad leader, something about me as bad, I've done something wrong. And that's a real shame attack, right. And that's very shame attacks are crippling and paralyzing. And disempowering. They're very shame is like the hardest thing to deal with. Yeah. And when we can separate the thing from the person. And I found, I'll credit Kristin Neff, for this. I found self compassion is very, very, very powerful. So that when something comes in, and I find myself feeling all squeegee in my stomach, and all anxious and like, oh, geez, there's something the matter with me like I'm, I'm a shit human being. Not that somebody has told me this. But this is what the internalized critic is telling me, yes, to be able to go, oh, wait a sec, that I'm really in distress right now. Like, I'm noticing I'm really in distress, something that has hit me really hard. And so and you can see if you're not watching the video, I've placed my hand on palm down on my chest. And also my palm is on my belly, and my eyes are a little closed, I'm going to take a breath. Because I'm remembering like, even now what it was like to hear those kinds of things and to have those feelings and so to say, like, I'm in distressed. And of course, I'm experiencing distress, distress that was hard to hear. And then the common humanity aspect of it to say, well, it's normal to feel distress, many people would feel distress under these circumstances. It's okay to be distressed about this. So validation and common humanity. And then, from Kristin Neff, the last thing she says in this little process, and I'll give you the link, so you can put it in the show notes, is May I be kind to myself, Well, we've already been kind to ourselves by taking these steps and by nurturing and nourishing ourselves. And that helps us know that we are, we are in a in a like a warm and caring relationship with ourselves. And that sends the message fine. Okay, I am worthy, I'm valuable. So that we have our own experience of that. And that separates that from whatever the message was. And we can then look at the message for what it is and say, Is this something I need to address or not? And if so, what am I going to do about it, but to not take it personally, as an adult? The very first thing is to turn toward yourself and to acknowledge and validate that this is a painful moment.

Yes. Right. Right. And, and as entrepreneurs, we're one put into that situation, quite a while probably more frequently, and you can speak to that in a second. And the other thing I wanted to just say, is, we also have this mentality of like, we don't I don't have time, I don't have time to like, sit and validate myself and touch my heart. I have things to do and not enough people that I'll

Shulamit Ber Levtov: take, right, like, how long was that? That was like maybe maybe two minutes, right?

And I can say like, I know, when I do this versus what I don't do this, like some version of this. My therapist gave me that acronym rain.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yes, it's the same kind of word of Yes, it is. Yeah.

It's important, right? It's like, sometimes that moment of shame and pain and whatever, like that heightened emotion is it can stew, right sometimes, like, and I think this is, in part the definition of resiliency, it's how fast you can like move through it instead of having it stay with you and like to talk you down because there's days where something comes up, and it's like, Okay, that's it can't do anything else. Like I'm crippled, I'm on the couch or whatever, I just my brain stopped working, I can't get over this, this thing that somebody said, or this way that this made me feel or whatever it was, versus days where it just rolls off your back a lot easier.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Well, the difference in the days is the how resourced we are, on a day when you're feeling fully resourced. Like things have been going well, there haven't been a lot of demands on your system, stuff can just flow off your back on a day when your gas tank is kind of low, right? And the demand is high, eventually you're gonna run out. And what happens when emotions are high really is that we can't think straight. Right? The emotions take the front we get all wrapped up in them. And they prevent us from seeing the whole picture. And the value of taking that moment to connect with ourselves and to validate and reassure like I'm okay with myself and I'm you know, giving myself some care allows the emotions to shift so that we can then bring our focus back to what it is in front of us and what we need to do as entrepreneurs because our emotions have important information but they can't be the whole story. Right? We can't run our our businesses on just emotions right? And so we can take that moment to be with the emotions and bring them and our full intelligence our full cognitive abilities back to the thing at hand. And resilience is a practice. It's a set of skills that can be developed in practice, just like weightlifting, you know, where you grow the muscle by the more you lift, the stronger the muscle gets. Resilience is a set of skills that are learned. And the more you practice them, the more they're available to you. And I agree with you that the more you practice them, the more effective they will be. And the greater the impact they will have. So that over time, your turnaround time after being upset will be shorter and shorter.

Yeah, yeah. I love how you frame that. Because sometimes I think we have this preconception that, you know, once you learn something, that's it, it's supposed to, you're supposed to have learned to know like, huh, that seems not even reality, when it comes to emotions, especially. But it's, I think, you know, this extra layer here, where it's like, we're talking about things that all humans deal with, but through the lens of being an entrepreneur, and the different pressures and the different experiences that we have when we take on this role in our lights.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yeah, it's really, it's unique. Non entrepreneurs experience many of the things that we experienced as entrepreneurs, but individually, we experienced them all together, they all come many of the stressors that we experienced, occur at the same time. And they potentiate one another, they amplify one another, right? Whereas a person, you know, like decision making, a person who's not an entrepreneur, will be stressed out about decisions, from time to time, right, that decision fatigue from time to time. But then they are also responsible for cash flow this month, which is very low. And then also responsible for the shitshow that's going on in their Facebook group. And you got I mean, like they, these things occur to them one at a time, where for us, they all come together more frequently. Mm hmm.

Can you label some of those things for us? As far as like some of the experiences that entrepreneurs are having that are contributing to our emotional labor? That's what Yeah,

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yeah. So in my work, I've identified seven factors. And it's actually, you know, every time I teach about these seven factors, people name more of them. So I want to say that this is not an exhaustive list. These are just the ones that I've seen, as I've worked through with folks. But we talked about isolation. And I would say that's the number one that's that's the major, major thing that most entrepreneurs have mentioned to me. And also, a lot of the research bears out into entrepreneurship and mental health talks a lot about entrepreneurial isolation and the impact it has as a mental health factor. But in addition, we have VUCA, which is a leadership term, it's a short, what do you call it, an acronym for volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity, that is the nature of our work, right? That our, our days are volatile, there's a lot of uncertainty that occurs in the in the course of our work, the information that we have to deal with is complex and often unclear. And we have to just do our best right, to make a decision and go with it and hope for the best. And things change so frequently, right? Like the economy changes frequently, the algorithms change frequently, though, as well is a real factor in our lives. There are many barriers to support for entrepreneurs. Because entrepreneurial poverty is a thing cash poverty is a thing. And so one of the big mental health supports that I would love to see everybody have is an virtual assistant. But not all of us have the businesses that have the cash flow that can support having an assistant, and that's over and above like, obviously a therapist, but if you don't have the cash money to pay a therapist, it's going to be or you don't have extended health care benefits, right? In Canada or in the US. If you don't have healthcare coverage period, it's going to be tough to access a therapist without a certain level of cash flow in your business. And then to find a therapist who understands business there are even fewer, right? So there are many, many barriers to support for us. Hustle culture is a problem. Hustle culture is really a feature of of the entrepreneurial ecosystem. In 2019, the Canadian Mental Health Association had a they issued a report called going it alone. And they talked about the nature of the discord like the narrative around entrepreneurship that it's Go, go go, you know, like tough. Handle it all, no matter what Gary Vee says, Yeah, I got this crush it culture or whatever. But yet this is so hustle culture is we have to change these narratives, because the hustle culture is so harmful because we neglect ourselves. And we find ourselves also kind of absorbing values that aren't even ours. When we end up in business because there's an emphasis on growth. There's an emphasis on numbers. And for many of us, that isn't even what our values are, but we just get swept up in the whole thing without an opportunity. And that's the other side of hustle is that we don't have an opportunity to to slow down and check in and go, Hey, wait a minute, is that really in alignment with my values. And we can find ourselves having built a whole business that has made me very successful, but it's actually burning us out. Because we are lost in the hustle trance, reversal hustle culture and capitalism, exploitative extractive consumerist values that get tangled up in all that those are very harmful to people's mental health. And then we talked about this already, the connection between self worth and success, like not taking things personally, but also the ups and downs of the business, you know, when things are going poorly, then you should talk yourself when well, like, what did I even think I was doing? Who did I think I was to start a business, I'm a terrible entrepreneur, I don't know anything about marketing, blah, blah, blah, right? Then your self worth tanks. And then when you have in a good way, of course, a good day, of course, then you talk to yourself nicely. So. And that's a human tendency to link success in your role to your self worth. And this is where self compassion really is so much better. Because it's not tied to any external factors. It's really your relationship with yourself. You know? Sorry, go ahead.

No, you're going through your list. And I definitely want to hear what all the rest are. But yeah, this one, I feel Bearsville deserves a little bit more of an expansive important, right and be your I've heard all this before. I've literally talked to my own therapist about this, but you're putting it right now in different words that make more sense. Or maybe I've finally just been able to open my mind enough to hear and receive, which sometimes that's a difference just state of being right to understand that. But truly, it is so, so common. And I'm saying that I've personally experienced that inactivity between self worth and basically income, like ethics s not even being like defining success in your own terms, which I've talked about a lot and have worked really hard to try and do in terms of like saying what Success to me is, this flexibility is this lifestyle that I have is my ability to be the kind of parent I want to be to walk my kids to school to take them to activities at four o'clock in the afternoon. But yet, when I'm having like, a strenuous time when it comes to the cash flow, I'm like, I suck. I'm the worst and everything feels like an attack on me.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yes, yes. Well, this is so important that you're especially bringing up money, because lack, whether perceived or real, is read in the body, like a threat. And it elicits the threat, the body's threat response, the fight flight freeze fun response. And so for us as entrepreneurs, when our businesses, business owners, when our when our money is low, we're our organ, even if we intellectually know differently, our organism is responding in fear. And fear narrows the like it's called tunnel vision, it narrows the focus on only the negative. And it also depletes because of the level of stress response, our resources are depleted. And that's when the internalized critic will come up and start really kicking your butt. It's so it's so difficult to get out from that. But I really want to the so called scarcity mindset that comes when we don't have the cash flow we need in our business is a reality. Scarcity has its own psychology. And when we have a lack of time, lack of love, lack of money, again, whether real or perceived, because folks can have tons of money in the bank and still have the emotional memories of being without and still fear being without and still therefore be in fear. You know, so it makes so much sense that we would freak out if we don't have cashflow and or that we get fixated on cash flow, because it becomes a survival issue on an organismic level. Like again, you know, I know we're not going to die if we don't if our if our businesses take tomorrow, it won't be fun. Yeah, the die shafts. Right. How they get them doesn't. Hey, thanks for we're gonna die.

I always think of that line. I don't remember which movie was prob, I think it was from like, oh, it was that one where they all went to Vegas, The Hangover, and Leslie Chow like, but did you die? At the end? I like that all the time. That when it's like, let's assess the real risk here.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Right. Right. Right. And that's like, that's also a self compassion move. To be able to say like, yes, of course you're scared that you're perceiving lack. And lets, you know, you sort of invite the part of you that's in fear to look through your Rise and to take in information that it doesn't have. So, you know, you validate it and you say it's okay. No wonder you're scared. This is scary. It's a survival situation. And of course, in a survival situation, people get scared. That's okay. I'm with you. And I invite you to take a look through my eyes. Let's take a look at what's going on today, here and now. Right, there is no bear. You're not a bunny, right? In these four walls, you are physically safe, your existence is not threatened. Right. And now let's take a look at the actual numbers. And let's see what the data tells us. And then see what we need to do with the information at hand instead of coming from the fear. So like you say, let's look at the reality.

Yeah, who, oh, that's so good. Okay, I don't remember where we are. We're on your list

Shulamit Ber Levtov: winking, self worth and success. And there, there are two more. One is the fact that most entrepreneurs have a predisposition. Many I shouldn't say most many entrepreneurs have a predisposition to mental illness. So Michael Freeman, who's a psychiatrist and a psychologist in the US, he's like the grandfather of research into entrepreneurship and mental health. In 2015, he did a study that showed that, and I forget what the actual percentage is now, but a significant percentage of entrepreneurs have mental health issues. And he has it very interesting theory, because he'll he'll also He also notes that of the entrepreneurs in his studies who don't have a mental health diagnosis, their family members do. And he thinks that there's some genetic aspect, intertwined with the quote unquote, mental illness that expresses itself along a spectrum. So that the most severe expression is the illness. And the less severe expression is what enables people to engage in entrepreneurial activities. Such an interest I know, right? Fascinating. Fascinating. Yeah. So

I mean, I could be what's the word? Well, my my storis is not working to speak to you. Yeah. But I could say oh, so Yeah, cuz you do have to be a little crazy to start your article. Yeah.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Yep. Yep. And so he says, folks who are energetic, motivated, and creative, and entrepreneurial, also experienced strong emotional states. And so, you know, when we bring in, and then like, Life is stressful. And many folks who started businesses have started businesses as a response to mental health issues in the workplace. Right, right.

So right away, I don't want to be tied to this corporate schedule, and I don't, I'm burning myself out only to enter into entrepreneurship

Shulamit Ber Levtov: yet, or the toxicity. Specifically, like racialized folks, or folks who have disabilities, or women, who are, you know, who get crap in the corporate world, because they leave at five because they have families and they and they value, you know, a balance, there are all kinds of what's the word systemic oppression built into employment. And lots of folks have left employment for entrepreneurship, because they could create for themselves a healthy and mentally healthier workplace at home, where they're not exposed to these constant micro aggressions around their parenting role, or their skin color or their the perception of the what their racialized group is as a whole, or that they want accommodation to support their disability so that they can perform their jobs. You know, there's a lot of they get a lot of flack, right, but you come home and create your own business. But you still have the mental health impact of what that was like in that workplace that you're caring for as you establish your business. So there's this whole pool of like, issues of mental wellness and illness that come with us into our businesses. Mm hmm. And then the seventh factor, which we alluded to, before I call it invisible, is the fact that all the other six amplify one another. Ooh, right they pile on and make it worse.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Wow. Wow. So okay. This was very like mind opening this conversation. But before we sign off, do you have what? What kind of advice do you give foreigners? What's your top advice for us as we navigate all these things that we're now aware of and have acknowledged are very normal,

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Right? So I do logger workshops based on these seven factors. And we start is this is where I started with, with these seven factors. And by the end of it, it's feeling pretty heavy people are like, whoa, you know. And when you pause to take in the weight of those things, right to really take in what it is I'm trying to accomplish as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, and what I have to face, it's no wonder that there are times when it's going to be hard. It's absolutely no wonder that you have mental challenges to your mental and emotional well being. Maybe you might even experience mental illness like depression or anxiety or burnout, right? Because what we're trying to do is hard. And it will have an impact on us. It's not a question of f in our businesses, but when? Because it's the nature of the work. So when it hits you, you can say to yourself, Well, I'm dealing with XYZ 123. Like no wonder, of course, there's nothing wrong with me, who wouldn't be feeling this way? Right, there's just nothing wrong with us. Because what we're trying to do is hard. So of course, it's going to be hard.

Mm hmm. And to just leave it like, like there, there are solutions to support that there's, there's ways to process the emotions that take breaks to, like, acknowledge what you're going through, and try and find the ways that work for you as an individual to, you know, decompress throughout this whole roller coaster that we're all.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Well, the first thing I think, is to really tell yourself, there's nothing wrong with me like to really acknowledge like, yeah, there's nothing wrong with me. And then you can you can make this conversation, you can make this topic, a conversation with everybody, you know, your your biz bestie, your coach, your mastermind group, the incubator, where you go in the networking group, you can make mental and emotional wellness, while being part of every conversation you have. Because opening the door to that, like, creates connection. Of course, you want to be judicious about how much you share. Because good boundaries are important, and you want to choose carefully with whom you share. But you can put these things on the table, right and be met by other folks who are feeling the same way. And I mean, my goodness, right? So you can validate for yourself, seek others who validate you, and then you can choose, like some of the paid options to like a therapist and a coach. But there are there are ways that like we don't need money. After we've said to ourselves, there's nothing wrong with me, right? And of course, I deserve some support, right? And then we can go to our peers and then go to the paid option will

because the fact that you're dealing with all of this doesn't need to be at another thing that you carry on your own

Shulamit Ber Levtov: 100% Yes, I love how you said that. The fact that you're carrying this does not have to be something you deal with on your own.

This has been such an important conversation. I really appreciate you shedding light on all of these topics, and that we're putting this out into the world to help normalize these conversation. Please, please connect with Shula, where do you like to connect with people

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Shula.ca/newsletter is where they can sign up where folks can sign up for my newsletter. And this is really like in terms of validation and support. That's where you're going to get it. That's where I you know, my all my long form stuff, all the research, I do all the skill building, all that kind of stuff. The newsletter is where you'll get it. I also love social media for the social aspect of it. And so if you want to connect with me on LinkedIn or on Instagram and chat with me in the direct messages I don't really like I mean, obviously I create content so that I have a presence. But for me, the more fun thing is to talk to folks. So I'm my DMs are open, right like for the conversation. I'm 100% down for that.

Oh, so good. All right. Thank you so much for all of this.

Shulamit Ber Levtov: Kelly. I'm so grateful. It's so important. Thank you for being open to the conversation.

You did it you just listen to another episode of the Entrepreneur School Podcast. It's like you just went to business school while you folded your laundry, prep dinner, or picked up your kids at school. Thank you so much for being here. I want to personally celebrate your commitment to growing your business. You can imagine I'm throwing confetti for you right now. If you enjoyed today's episode, please leave us a review. Make sure you're subscribed and let us know you're listening by screenshotting this episode, and tagging us on Instagram, head to entrepreneurschool.ca for tons of tools and resources to help you grow your business while keeping your family a priority. You can subscribe to our email list and join our committee in it and until next time go out there and do the thing.