From People Pleaser to Self-Love: The Journey to Embracing Your True Identity with Annie M Henderson

Welcome back. I am so happy you are here. Raise your hand if you're a people pleaser. actually throw your hand in the air if you're recovering people pleaser too. And if you're listening in a public place, just nod your head or give a little wink. Just so you all know, I'm raising my hand right along with you. I have found people pleasing to be one of my most difficult personality traits to shift on my path of healing and trying to be a better human being. Have you found that to? Even though I logically understand the how and the why the emotional connection has lingered, and I've had thoughts like, am I being mean, do they think I don't care and others along that line of thinking and feeling. This is a long, long road of being aware and of practicing. Even this week, when faced with a situation where I had a clear choice of going the people pleaser route or staying connected to my truth. I was hyper aware and momentarily conflicted. That self doubt piece is sneaky. So my apologies if you tuned in today hoping for the next stage of the coming out process for your child. That will be up next but I think you will equally enjoy my guest today because among other things, she is going to talk about people pleasing.

Welcome to Just breathe parenting your LGBTQ team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here. I want you to take a deep breath. And know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the just breathe Ness. Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies or lessons I've learned along our journey. I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat. Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Annie Henderson is a certified professional life coach specializing as a coming out coach for the LGBTQIA community and helps people pleasers that avoid conflict over apologize and struggle to say no. Start living authentically and find the piece that they have been missing. After going from an unfulfilled existence, checking all the boxes of perceived quote unquote success to breaking into an intentional abundant life. She now uses her experiences and professional background as a teacher, counselor and life coach to teach and mentor others and working with her diverse clientele to discover unapologetic joy, including the LGBTQIA community and people pleasers. Her teachings focus on releasing self doubt, embracing the power and setting boundaries and removing the habit of over apologizing. She's the international best selling co author of she did it, which follows women from around the world and their transformational journey. And his master's degrees in education, school counseling and professional counseling complement her mission and inform her regular content shared with loyal followers on Tiktok and Instagram. I am so excited to have Annie here and I know you're going to enjoy our chat. Annie, I would like to welcome you to just breathe I'm so happy that you're here today. And I am really excited about the conversation that we're going to have and for everyone to hear about what you do and who you are in this world because we just had such a fun conversation a few weeks ago, and I'll share it later in the conversation with with Annie gave me the courage to do but I am so delighted that You're here. And we'd love to just start with kind of be sharing a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Heather. Yeah, I loved our conversation, I could just do that for a long time and lose track of the day. So I appreciate you and your energy and everything that you do. Oh, so my story, goodness. Hi. I do have a kiddo. I'm gonna I'm gonna hop all around. Is that okay? Absolutely. Yes, that is having to know that it's come out to me as pansexual. So I, I appreciate what you do and what you offer. Being someone that lives in a smallish town. I know that the people that I work with, and just even ourselves that we can be in this bubble, and not have a lot of representation or people going through the same thing. And when that happens, we just kind of shove worries and fears and important conversations down. So I like what you provide to people just that warm, safe place to grow and share and learn a better way to do things.

Thank you.

Yeah, so my story, I grew up being an excellent people pleaser. Just doing everything I thought I was supposed to do. If I go way, way back, I do remember a more confident Annie that didn't care yet. Like I just wanted to play sports and hang out with my brothers. And that was it. I was just who I was. So I'm thinking maybe around. Maybe around middle school is when things started to change, right? People start to grow up. Guys start to ask people out on dates. And I was a okay, yes, I was just Yes. And I didn't really even realize my where's my partner is new when she was five that she was gay. I was oblivious. I was just Annie, just living my life. And I don't you know, I, my kiddo introduced me to the term demisexual Are you aware of that? Right? So more of a relationship more of a, you know, I wasn't like just noticing attraction to everybody? Or like, oh, I can? No, it was very much I need to build and develop that relationship. So that I don't know if that played a part in me just being kind of oblivious and going through the motions and doing what I was supposed to do. I was raised Catholic, had lots of Southern Baptist friends. And really, you know, I heard the only thing times I heard about being gay was probably, you know, church and maybe talk shows. But at the time talk shows, they were not pro gay. It was you know, what it says in the Bible, and so far, sorry for your family. And this is happening. It was just like a tragedy. So even though I don't think my parents ever, you know, we're like, Don't do this. It was just kind of in in the community and church and just implied. So yeah, I dated lots of guys because they would ask, and I didn't as a people pleaser, you don't want to hurt anybody. You just say yes, yes, yes. Okay. Okay. So it was just that like, non stop once I would finally build up the courage to be like, Okay, that's, this can end now then, like, the next one would be there. And I was like, Okay. Um, and eventually, I got married at night teen. At the time, of course, you know, I thought I was grown up and I was ready. I was definitely ready to get out of my home because I think my mom was going through probably some depression and menopause and divorce. My dad had some undiagnosed mental illness, so all the things but I was like, ready to get out of this? I think I can do this better. You know? So I did it. And I was Bestival people pleaser wife, right? Not a lot of fights. And I hear this a lot with my clients. So I work with people pleasers, and later in life lesbians. We usually have a nice model relationship. There's, you know, the guys that we marry are usually good guys. Right? There's no abuse. There's, you know, all the reasons that we should stay. So I was married for seven years and didn't come out until after you know, I checked all the boxes that I I was supposed to to lead to success, right? I went to college, we built a house and I was married and had a career, went to grad school had a kid. I did all the things like I was supposed to use. But something was still off and missing. Right? I went to church. I did all the things. So for me, it was like a catalyst situation where someone came into my life. And I was like, oh, oh, okay, this is not friendship. I just thought we're gonna be great friends. So just that awakening, I know a lot of people use a lot of my clients, and people and we grew up with the phrase, midlife crisis, right, which definitely has a negative connotation of like, you're having a breakdown over it. And instead, I like the word awakening, like, oh, my gosh, like, I can see now, like, this is interesting. This is a whole different world where I can say no, and I can figure out who I am. And what I like, instead of just going along with what everyone has always told me to quickly learned about toxic relationships. Yeah, and just because I came out, doesn't mean, my people pleasing would automatically go away. So that was something I had to figure out and go through a toxic relationship. And, you know, health wise, this toxic relationship was actually, you know, less healthy than, than my marriage. Right? I was out so that, you know, in my head counteracted the, this is so much better, even though it's worse. It's better.

Right, right.

So after that, it was after that ended, and it was, you know, three to four years of just roller coaster. And I think a lot of people pleasers also have that, Oh, I wanna I want to fix like I can, I can be patient, I can handle it. people pleasers are used to putting themselves last right taking things personally. So instead of oh, this is an issue for you. It's, oh, what did I do wrong? Oh, I'll try better. Right, I failed, I will try to fix it. So a lot of times just cling to something for too long. i Are you familiar with the phrase sunk cost fallacy? No, actually, that it's a really good one. It's a really good one. And I you know, not just in our niche, but all over the place people do this. And sunk cost fallacy has to do with I've already invested this, this many years to this relationship. I can't I can't get out now. Like I've already done the time, or I've already put in this much money or time towards this degree. Well, I've got to do it. Even though I already know I don't want to do this. I have to if already putting this much into commitment and energy and time, right. So people like anyone listening right now you can think of what something I'm holding on to, because I've invested time, energy or money into it.

I'll probably have some at least one thing, right?

Yeah. And I I love that, you know, you do so much with parents, because I think this is an important message that parents can pass on to their kids is if you're in something, right? Don't feel like you have to keep doing it for so many years to prove that it's not the right thing, if you know that. Okay, I shouldn't be married even though I've already planned this wedding. You can there's you can get out at any time that you realize that this is not for me, whether it's a career, right? A lot of people do it with careers, right? They start making the money, and then they have the bills, and then they can't stop it even though it's it's miserable.

Right? Right.

So fast forward a little bit, I figured out who I was I hung out with friends. Just getting to be myself. And not having not in a relationship. So I got to see like, make my own decisions. No, no, where my balance was and what was me and what I was doing with other people. And then I met my, my partner. So this year is 11 years, we've been together for 11 years, just easy and amazing. And you know, those previous relationships, right? They weren't a waste or any of that they were they provide great contrast to my relationship now. Oh my gosh, this is helping. And it's easy and it's it's passionate and you know, all the things so she's been so amazing. And then of course I say thank you Career wise, this is all over the place. Heather, I appreciate this bearing with me. Wonderful my career path was education and psychology and then elementary school counselor, and then I was a therapist. And then back in 2019, I switched over to being a life coach. And I love it. I know everyone, you know, a lot of people love their jobs. But this is this, I'm pretty sure is the best, right? Just getting to help people. One thing I love about coaching is that I don't have necessarily the local limitations as I did when I was a counselor, right to be able to have a client in Finland and Hawaii and I've talked to people in South Africa, it's just just limitless. So when you people are in that bubble, where they're like, there's no one that will understand me, like, I'm, I wish right? On tick tock. People are like, Oh, I wish I was closer. And I'm like, Well, you're in luck. You don't even have to be closer. So love, love the internet. Love what it provides.

Right? I mean, that is definitely one of the the best benefits is that it brings, it brings people closer and it it gets rid of that isolation, which oh my goodness, so, so huge. And you know, and what both of us do, and and all the people that we work with and the people that we know. And so that is just that is amazing. And I had so many thoughts come up as you were talking because I'm li ke, Ah, yes. Yes. People pleasing everybody. Raise your hand if you're a people pleaser, or we're a people pleaser, at some point, recovering people pleaser

recovering.

And I think I love you know, stories like yours, because I think that it gives. It gives people permission to take a minute and be like, wait a second, I can do that. I'm allowed to do that. I'd never heard that phrase before that sunken cost fallacy, but fallacy. Yeah, how I mean, that's so very true. And, and certainly something that I I tell my kids now, you know, if you don't like what you're doing, why are you doing it? That's right, crazy. You know, Connor started college as a computer science major, a nd he's graduating with a degree and may have motion graphics. I mean, you know, kind of in the same, that is different. Very different. So I'm like, Just keep trying until you figure right, like, that's just a tiny example. But I think that that is I admire that you and I guess there's kind of a question here, which is, at what point did you realize this is not working for me? Either, whether it was the people pleasing or being married? Or was there kind of like a one singular moment? Or is it just kind of this gradual awakening?

Yeah, so the the people pleasing awakening came, came later. Like it was a Oh, because sometimes people pleasers think it's not a bad thing. Like, oh, I'm when they signed up for a consultation call. There's like, what are some struggles? What are some strengths and sometimes their strengths are like, I put others first. I carry a lot. I'm like, Oh, those are great. There are also some people pleasing tendencies that might be holding you back. So it can be confusing, because other people love that. Right? They love that you give endlessly and do anything for me. Anytime, right? But really like so it takes a while to shift and go, Oh, okay. I don't have good boundaries, what our boundaries are though, right. And realizing, you know, it's not selfish boundaries, like it's necessary, and it usually involves something good for for both sides, even if it doesn't feel like it in that moment. Even if there's that resistance to the boundaries initially, right? It builds something better. So like, my mom is not someone that wants to his interested in growth. Right. Like, here's a Brene Brown book. And then I don't think she read it and I was like, Oh, can I could I get it back and she was like, I don't know where it is. So I know she doesn't get re gifted it or what happened, but she is not one that you can be like, Oh, do this, try this. But by living my life and having healthy relationships, and having some boundaries and just how our family interacts, she's been able to kind of that rising tide kind of make some growth along with us. But not because we're pushing him it just kind of as a role model, those beautiful ripple effects that can affect people in our lives without us like shoving it down their throat.

That is exactly right, that and I think that is maybe the most effective if not one of the most effective ways to because nobody likes to be told you're wrong. Do it my way. Doesn't matter how old you are. Right. I think that by, you know, shifting in the ways that you shifted? And certainly, I think that a lot with with my family as well, that, okay, well, I'm going to shift and lead by example. And they are, you know, they have choices choices are right. And making those making those choices clear as part of the setting boundaries, which is, again, it was a foreign concept to me as well. Yeah, I mean, holy cow. I read this really cool. Or maybe I heard it, I don't know if I read it or heard it on a podcast, but somebody was talking about being selfless. The idea of being selfless, and which goes along with being people pleaser. And they were saying that being selfless is actually selfish, huh, that was like, Oh, yeah. Like, you really think about it. And, gosh, I wish I could remember who this was to give them credit. But I just thought it was so brilliant. Because it's true. You're kind of wrapped up in that whole like, well, I can do everything for everybody. And I can make it all better. And, and people love that about you. Right? They'll they'll take until you are like a shriveled up burned up little. Okay, I can't do any more. And then that what Who's Who are you good for at that point? No one.

Right. And then they're gonna be upset because you can't do it anymore.

Correct? Correct. Yeah. Yes, yes. So Oh, my goodness. So you have a kiddo? Who is pansexual? Yes. Which is awesome. So can we talk a little bit about them? Let's get okay. Is that okay? I just didn't want to talk about anything that was off limits. So when did they come out? And I guess before that, how were they? How old? Were they when you came out? And how have they been with kind of the shifts and relationships around them? Yeah. So

I came out when she was one. So I was like, You're never gonna remember any of the. But it was also motivating because I was like, Okay, I don't want to model being a people pleaser, and for her to grow up watching me go through, because I was still going through like, the unhealthy relationship. Like when she was like two and three. So I had to be like, Nope, that's not good. Like, I don't want her to be like, This is normal. This back and forth. And, and yelling or any, any kind of, you know, some of this is, is something that's normal, and you can talk to your kids about but if I can have my choice, right, if I can pick the healthiest version of myself and a partner, then that's what I wanted. She it's funny, because even with what I do, I she still struggled to come out to me, which was, which was funny. So at first she came out as as VI. And I try to think of how she did it. And this was, I think, also around middle school age. So like sixth and seventh grade, right? There's a lot of, oh, I'm not a elementary school kid anymore, right? I'm having you know, you lose that baby group of friends that your parents sometimes choose for you and invite everyone and start to have more of an opinion and realization and all of the all of that. But she just came up to me. Not not her father though. so that, you know that relationship is still, he's goes to a very conservative church. We also go to church, but we have some very affirming pastors. So it's interesting, just kind of seeing both sides. And what I like to reassure people is that it doesn't, it can, you can have one parent, right, you can have your one person that is supportive and validating and listening. And just because the other side isn't there yet, doesn't mean it's gonna break the kid. Right?

Very important point,

did read the book, The Four Agreements with my child a long time ago, like a book, I have all my clients read. And I was like, let's just go through this because if I think of my mom, she struggles with all of those. So which is probably why I love that book so much. So I was like, just gonna slowly into a at this book and talk about it. And each time I was like, what are the Four Agreements again, just the chamber, like, don't take things personally, don't make assumptions. Anyways, you were just like, practice was reeling it in and she's a confident kiddo. I did come out. And again, we're still in this small ish town. It's not like Dallas, or any of the big, big cities. She like decided to wear like, a rainbow sticker, like every day to school. Just like, just

so it's clear. So y'all know exactly right. So it was very interesting. Like that whole generation I'm so impressed with. And I'm sure you know, I'm sure internet and just, you know, TV shows these days. I remember when I was coming out, they would, when there was like one gay character in a show, we'd be like, Oh, my goodness, did you hear this show? And now, it's almost a staple. Like there's always one. So it's not like as shocking or a surprise anymore. But just being brought up around that doesn't undo everything. Right. There's still so many people I talked to that. It's just a struggle, because church and their parents, right. That's a daily kind of message. Right? And it's hard when you are in that bubble, but So yeah,

those are difficult ones. Yes, for sure. So how old is she now?

She's 16. Now? Oh, yes, I have one of those. They're super fun.

Yes. Oh, my goodness. I love that. And I think that I love New the middle school coming out. I think so many people are surprised by it. But it's really not that surprising. If you think about it. Yeah, that's kind of when everybody has their first crush, right? I mean, you're just entering puberty and noticing, you know, all of these Thoughts and attractions. So it is, I find it, you know, people ask my gosh, that normal? I'm like, yeah, when did you have your first class? Probably when they were like 12 or 13? Right. I mean, some of us were older, some of the three younger, but that is the general. So I do. And I think that that is I love when kids are able to express that. You know, likewise, I am just in awe of this generation of kids, especially considering, you know, what they do? Face and so many other ways, right? I mean, just, we were talking how much we love the internet, because we can do things like this. For them. It's different, and it can be so much more dangerous and scary and stuff is out there. So yes, these these kids are amazing. They're quite extraordinary. And they're fun to learn from, which I think is another gift that that we get. And I think that you know, we we did not collectively as a generation grow up with parents just because and this isn't, you know, I don't say this to blame, but it's just a fact, who were interested in learning from their children. Right. We were to learn from them. That was just once right? Yeah, see miniature versions of them, or we were reflections of them. And I think that is one of the most fun things of the shifts that that we have made as a generation is, oh my gosh, we could learn a lot from these kids. Like, you sit and observe them or listen to them and there's a lot there. I mean, you and I learned how to be on Tik Tok. suck. I learned how to be on tick tock because of you. So this is my announce today, yo, Annie gave me the courage to be on tic tac because she has an amazing channel. So that will be one of the things that we have to share. Because not only do you do just these awesome I'm gonna say all of this wrong because I'm still such a newbie, but you do great videos, but you also do lives. And they're so wonderful and so educational. And so I I love after I sat and what I mean it took me like a good week and a half after we talked to like, while I was watching you and watching you because of course you know the stuff our kids watch. Rise that's not coming up on my for you page. Now I know what they're talking about. Because my because Connor used to be like row and I don't think we have the same for you pet, you know, the 22 year old and the 16 year old definitely do not have the same. It's so funny. But now like observing and watching and doing all this. It's it's such a you know, it's such a great way to communicate with people and reach people. And so, you know, that's something that this generation has brought to us, bro.

Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, just thing open to to all the conversations and changes. Like, I don't know, I don't know about you or any of the listeners. But I was not a go to my mom and have these conversations. It was Nope. This is this is toeing the line. There's Annie.

Exactly. We did not have conversations. So yes, it is it is so nice. And and I always kind of giggle because they each share certain, like different amounts of information with me, Connor shares the most but I think that's because of everything we've been through together. So it's kind of like, well, you know, you saw my Grindr account. So I can tell you pretty much anything. No, I mean, seriously? Yes. So some of these things were learned by what is it? What is the phrase? Something by fire, baptism by fire

trial by fire

something by fire anyway, that's what it was. That's what it is. So yes, it is it is fun that they do. Share. And I think the other piece of that is that they share and we can have conversations, where if we question or ask questions about you know, why, why do you think that? Or where did you find that? Or? It isn't this instant? Like, I'm not telling you or, you know, it actually, I think helps them develop more critical thinking skills, right? Like, why am I doing this? Like, where did I find this information? Was that a reputable source? Or what was it? You know, from? So and so? So, anyway, I don't know why I got off on that tangent habits.

And that's beautiful. Because how we, you know, there's so many stories of that we can take from generations before, right? We'd like to break those generational curses. But I remember, I remember thinking early on that, like, Oh, my ex is gonna have a hard time because he's not really doing this groundwork to build this relationship. And at one point, he was like, Yeah, I think she's just being a teenage girl. And I'm like, huh, I was like, she doesn't do that over here. Like, that's not a teenage girl thing. It's anyway, yeah. So noticing when we can catch ourselves with some old expired outdated thoughts that we can question me like, what if, what if this can be better? Right? I love those positive what ifs, turning them on their heads.

Right? And I think so much like so many things that you've said have been because of being aware. So, I mean, your journey is you are so aware from so early on, of how you were feeling and what you were thinking and and perhaps how the two things didn't necessarily mesh together right? Because it was like programming that we're like, go go go and then we're like,

yes, yes. And I don't think all that awareness was there then it was definitely a after the fact like oh hindsight like I can see. This is why I did this and this will I was doing because it will Like I said, in the moment, you're just doing what you're supposed to be doing. And like in the book, The Four Agreements, how the intro talks about domestication, and how we're taught, this is good. And this is bad. And this is right, this is wrong. And, you know, you hug your family immediately, when you see them all like the rules and most of those TOS that will lead you like the path. Back then I was not aware at all, which is why I just kept kind of falling along that path. Looking back now I can be like, Oh, maybe that was actually a crush. Like, it wasn't just, like hanging out with this person. It's, oh, that's what that was. I was just so many areas is closed. It's cluelessness, but going through and, and being able, like you said, learning from our kids, and being able to have those conversations that we did with our parents, I think is, is powerful and great. So I, I'm excited for all of your listeners, because they get to hear how to grow that relationship. And like, this might be your old normal of parents don't talk to their kids about that kind of stuff. And kids are hard and tough to hold. There's a better way to have this relationship so that y'all can support one another and, and know what's what's normal. And what's Okay, and what's theirs. There's others like you, I think that's huge.

Right? Exactly. And doing amazing thing. awareness piece, which I think is really it sounds difficult, but it really isn't like, when you because it's really having that like pause. Yeah, practicing that pause. And, you know, just kind of observing or recognizing what's going on. So it's just, it just takes practice all of these all of these things and things and practicing all the time. And, and, you know, still totally goof from times. Yeah, sometimes? I'll do right. Yeah,

that practice isn't a bad thing. Right. It's just, it's just, you just keep growing, and taking one more step up and being able to look back and go, Oh, I didn't know that. No, I do. And

exactly. Well, I think the other thing too, that we've kind of learned from that is, you know, as we've grown, and, and shifted over time, we look back and we're like, oh, you know, that we did that or that happened. And and then being able to have that discussion, you know, with with, with whomever that occurred with, right. You know, obviously, a lot of these things were with Connor so I can go back and be like, Oh, I said that, or I did that. And I'm really sorry. Because I had no idea. And, and, you know, he's able to, you know, say how it made him feel and we can have this conversation and then it's you know, of course it's okay, Mom, you know you've had you didn't know, right? So or, you know, you're a moron. I mean, whatever he doesn't do. Um, but yes, so I think that that is it's a gift. That's a gift for sure. So, as people are I want people to find you and and either follow you on Tik Tok, or if somebody who was listening, would like to speak with you, you know, work with you. How do you do that? How would one find you?

Yeah, so I'm pretty consistent across all the platforms. But my website, weather and then also on Facebook, also on Tik Tok. You can usually find me just by going to Annie M. Henderson. I don't know if that. Yeah. So like, if it shows everyone can see the label on there. Any M henderson.com. Yeah. And then on Facebook, I usually just post just Google coaching tips and reminders on a daily basis and then tick tock live is 3pm Central. And that's just fun. Sometimes we start off on a certain topic, and then I just start responding to comments and talking to people and it's nice. It's not like a huge massive group, but it's nice to where people can ask and feel heard and just talk about whatever it is, whether it's boundaries or coming out or church or promo, whatever the topic is for the day, so I can't wait either. See your future lives. So

my good as gracious, I will definitely let you know I still have a little a little while to go to get to that point. Yeah,

we'll hop on together,

we definitely will. And I will put all of this information in, in the show notes as well. So people can click right through. And just in case, you know, you're driving as you're listening, and you didn't get all of that.

Yes, yeah. Yeah, any M Henderson. There's also a way to sign up for like a free consultation call. Some free groups, all from my website, an old podcast. So all the things are there, and they can lead you to other places. But yeah,

wonderful. Oh, my goodness, or is there anything else you'd like to share? Before we close?

Just an extra reminder to check out the Four Agreements, if you haven't yet. I think it's a beautiful book, it's pretty small. My tip that I give to my clients is because I can highlight like crazy in a book or jot down notes. But once I put it back on the shelf, it's kind of gone. And they won't look at it until I happen to pick it up. Again, maybe never. So the tip I like to give is that as you're going as you're going through a section or a chapter, what you do highlight or take note of to put it in your calendar app on your phone and set it for like a weekly repeat. So it's just going to a little reminder will pop up and then you could always move to monthly or a yearly if you need a little reminder or check in. But it's a great way to just kind of sink that good information in over and over because reading it once isn't going to do the trick.

No, that is brilliant, because I am definitely a serial highlighter and a tab or tab

and it's too much to just retain

right in your writing. Once you put it back on the shelf. It's It's

whatever one day, inherits those books. Gonna be like,

Oh, my goodness, she kept posted in business.

Yeah.

Well, good. Well, thank you. Thank

you so much. Thank you so much for being here today.

Thanks for having me on.