Your Thoughts, Feelings, and Actions Create Your Outcome with Candy Motzek

JB Intro/OutroWelcome to Just Breathe: 00:00:02

Parenting your LGBTQ Teen.The podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child filled with awesome guests practical strategies and moving stories host Heather Hester always makes you feel like you're having a cozy chat. Wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone. And here is Heather for this week's amazing episode

Welcome to Just breathe. I am so happy you all are here today. I am excited to introduce today's guest and have you just really enjoy our conversation because she is such a fascinating, interesting person. I am talking with Candy Motzek, who is a podcast host an author and a life and business coach for coaches. She believes that coaching transforms lives and she helps coaches get unstuck and feel more confident. So they can play bigger, sign clients and create more meaningful success. She is a recovering corporate executive, an engineer who combines practical strategy and mindset and her calming unique approach. And I can actually vouch for that calming, unique approach because I get to work with Candy and actually two different settings. We are in a professional coaching group together. And I was so inspired in that group by her insight and her wisdom that we now work together one on one. So I am really delighted to have Candy here on just breathe today for two reasons. The first is that I have a hunch that hearing Candy's story may inspire those of you listening who have been contemplating exploring the coaching path, and two, Candy is going to share a really powerful tool that everyone can use to sort out and understand what is going on in that big beautiful brain of yours. Here's what one of Candy's other clients has to say about her. I thoroughly enjoyed interviewing Candi on the meantime, midlife podcast, she is well spoken professional, organized and gave tremendous value to my listeners. So without further ado, I am really, really happy to have you here, Candi. Thank you.

Well, thank you so much for having me. It's interesting, because being a podcast host, I'm not used to being interviewed. So this is like flipping the switch. I love it.

A little bit. Right. It is funny to be on the other side of the mic.

Totally. Yeah.

So, so I'd like to just start out a little bit. I know I referenced it. But I think I probably peaked some curiosity by sharing a little bit of your background and how you got into this space that you're in now, which is the coaching and coaching of coaches, which is really specific.

It's like a tongue twister, isn't it coaching coaches? Every time I type it in a Google Doc or a Word doc or anything, it always tries to correct me like, Why are you repeating this word? Anyway, because, yes. And so there's lots of coaches who think that coaching coaches is a little bit odd. But I figure that doctors need doctors, lawyers need lawyers, accountants need accountants and so coaches need coaches. Right. So absolutely, yeah. Yeah. So you're asking how I got into coaching specifically. So I was thinking about this last night, and I, I'm a pretty reflective person, but I always have been. And when I was a kid, you know, if you could see me, you would see that I'm a mixed race. And that was a real oddity. So there was me, part black, there was one Korean child and one Japanese child in our entire elementary school. And then further in the high school, like it was just like, long blonde hair white everywhere. And so I was always different, right? And so this, instead of sort of forging forward, I would sit back and I would watch people and because of that I started to get really comfortable just being with myself. And the more or that you're comfortable being with yourself, the more people like to come and talk to you. And so they did, they would just come and talk to me for no particular reason. Just just so so. And then life happened and you know, married children career. And so then I ended up in the corporate setting. And as I climb that corporate ladder, this weird thing happened, people would walk into my office and say, Do you have a minute, and they would close the door, and then they would talk to me about everything in their life. And these were not sometimes it was people who reported to me, sometimes it was peers, and sometimes it was senior people. So it like there was no rhyme or reason. So that was kind of how coaching started. Then things got a little bit, a little bit bumpy, with corporate, and it was time for a change. And I started thinking, like, what do I want to do? And I remember two people keep coming to talk to me all the time. So I figured out that there was this thing called coaching. So that was, how it worked.

Which Who knew, right? I think coaching is one of those things that you don't realize exists until you realize that it exists. Yes. I mean, I, this is something that's fairly new in my life. And I remember, you know, talking, I think we were talking in our group about, you know, people having different coaches for different areas of their lives. So it's not even just like, you have a life coach, and that covers everything. There. I think it was actually you that was talking about the person who had the hand coach, yes. Was that? Yes, yes, the hand coach. I mean, I still think about like, the waving of the hand. And, you know, the different the very specific areas where you can have coaching, which is so cool. So I love that you kind of I mean, it was kind of served. You were doing that for a long time without even realizing it. Right. Yeah. So I'm sure once you kind of stepped into that you're like,

this is fun, is really what I thought like, wow, this is actually a thing, right?

Yeah. I mean, I think that that that thought right there like this, this is actually something people do. And they get paid for it. And I actually like it like, crazy, right? Who was so crazy? Who would have well, and I think you though, that you're just what you touched on at the very beginning there just being a reflective person. And I'm guessing that you, you'd like to observe and you pick up a lot by observing. You're also very intuitive. And you have a, a, an energy about you that people are attracted to. So there, there are a lot of pieces there that I think are just really, really, really cool. And I'd have to say, when we were at our very first, we were both in a masterclass together attending this masterclass, like six months ago, and I remember being in this masterclass with you, and you are telling some story about I don't even know what the story was about. Exactly. But you gave these like, Great analogies and I'm thinking, I don't know, I mean, I love what's going on in this masterclass, but I like her. And so I remember when I like met with, you know, decided to do this coaching program that we're now in together and, and the, you know, the coach that we're working with, he was like, Oh, well, you know, candy is also and I was like, well then sign me up. Because I really, really liked her energy and her you were just, I could tell the wisdom in this coming off of you. It's just amazing. So I had to be if you were gonna be at it, I was going to be on it.

I love that. And you know, it's funny, because I can just hear my inside my head, it's going trying to like, skirt away from the compliment, you know, like trying to defuse it like it's no big deal, right? And I and we all do that. I want to add something about this, because a lot of your listeners and a lot of the teens and young adults that they interact with, they're also the sit back and watch kind of people and that thing is actually or it can be a really powerful coaching skill. So it's a different kind of listening. So sometimes we listen to the words of what somebody is saying. But then when we can also watch and listen, you know more from that whole whole being perspective, you can pick up a lot. And when somebody gets listened to in that way, they really feel heard, they really feel that they matter and that what they have to say is valid. And that matters. It's not that the other person has to agree with you, but that they've been heard. And there's something so human about that. And that's a coaching skill, right? So anybody can take that skill and use it in their life. It's amazing.

Right, right, it is. And parenting is a form of coaching. Right. So that, really, it translates. And I think that is, you know, that is one of the most, I, in my humble opinion, one of the most important things you can do as a parent, is to not just listen, but to hear. And so I love how you made those distinctions and kind of broke that down a little bit. Because there are, there's no one right way to do this, there are different ways that we can hear what our kids are saying to us. And, you know, some of us are more sensitive to just their their energy, right, which I know sounds kind of weird, but you know, when your child walks in the door, and, and if they're upset about something, or if they're just like a tornado of, you know, whatever, you feel that and I think the more that you become in tune with that, because as we all know, when our kids enter that lovely teenage stage, they really start to talk a lot less. So relying on those nonverbal cues is huge. To get them talking, right and to get them sharing what's really going on. Because, you know, I, my youngest, like, he'll say to me, you know, how was your day? You know, what, How was practice? Or was there anything interesting? And he'll say, yes.

Hey, you got a response? It's an amazing.

Yes. That's like our joke. Now. I was like, Okay, can we have more than just? Yeah.

No, you cannot have more than

typically is, typically he just looks at me, like, really? Are we doing this? Are we doing this mom, because, you know, he, he also, to your point, observes, and has paid attention to everything that has gone on in our house, right? Yeah. So he also knows all of my tactics, which is not so good. I need to add some new tactics. I knew I do I need some more. Some more something. Well, you know,

maybe your his social science experiment, you know? Like, like, he could be like an anthropologist studying parenting methods are so

great. 20 years from now he's gonna be writing this book. I'm and then my mom tried this. And why was that funny? Yay. I have fired something. I mean, you know, if I inspire anything more than just needing therapy, that's why I'm happy with that.

We all need therapy, it doesn't matter.

Yep. I just think that that makes us all better people, right?

Yeah. I just wanted to, this reminds me of something that I learned. My kids are adults now. And they need a different kind of parenting that I'm learning but but one thing that I learned when they were a teenager is that the best way to get them to speak is to have them in the backseat while you are driving. And it's just enough of a barrier, that they feel a little bit safer saying stuff. And so I have friends who used to do this intentionally on long road trips, they wouldn't get their kids to talk. Right?

It is so and that is I love that you said thank you for sharing that because that is such a great I won't say trick, but it is such a great just tool to you to get your kid and they you know, they want to be in the backseat. They don't necessarily Alright, so then you can't I mean, you shouldn't probably be looking at your child if they're sitting in the passenger seat anyway, and you're driving but if you drive like me, you might try which I'm always trying to make eye contact with for like, Would you please watch the road? But if you have them in the backseat, then you can't do that. Right? Yeah. So you are driving more safely. And they have that? I mean, it's a physical boundary. Yeah. Where they feel like I can open up to you. Yeah, right. Kinda cool. Yes. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Awesome. Oh, my goodness. So I am wondering if we could talk a little bit about fear, because you and I have discussed that over time. And it is something that is all of us every human being can relate to. And I think, you know, parents and parents of kids who are LGBTQ plus, for sure, that is, it is such a, it's an emotion that's really right at the top of the emotions. And so I'm wondering on a couple different levels, first of all, if you could just share with us some, either tips or advice on how to approach fear. And then I know you're going to share a really valuable tool with us. But, you know, him is a tool for fear and everything else. But we'll do that. We'll do that second. So.

So Ask me, ask me the question again, and I know that we're recording, I just want to make sure that I hear what's really needed.

Absolutely. So I'm wondering if you could share some advice, from your perspective, from your wisdom on how to either approach fear, handle fear, even wording,

you know, yeah. So, I mean, no matter who we're parenting, or if we're just alive, humans, and our children are now adults, or we're wishing that we could have children fear is part of it. Fear is part of this, you know, it's part of this journey, and it is an emotion, what I've noticed is that fear sticks around because we resist it. You know, like, if we would just, and there's that word, just, which depends on how you use it is useful. But if we could just accept that fear is not fear is not going to kill us, fear is not going to damage our children. Fear is just an emotion. And we're so habituated to try to avoid it, that we actually prolong it, and we make it more difficult. Because the more you know, like that, saying, the more you resist, What you resist persists. And fear is the same thing, right? So every time you try to resist this discomfort and resist the fear, instead of just breathing into it. The, the, the harder it is, you know, so how do you? How do you accept that fear is part of life? You know, and I'm kind of asking that question rhetorically and sort of, you know, like, how do you how do you deal with uncomfortable emotions? Yeah.

Right. I think that is such I mean, that is a good question for the question, right? Because everyone approaches that differently.

There are, there are a couple of different things that I have shared over time. Because fear is part of life. So how do we sit with that being uncomfortable? How do we recognize that fear, you know, kind of, in an evolutionary sense, who's there to help us survive? Right? It's, it's a survival thing. How do we say, okay, like, acknowledge it? Almost say, Okay, I see you fear you're there. I know why you're there. And I've got this. Yeah.

And really take a breath, you know. So, you know, reminds me what you're saying about it's kind of an evolutionary piece as well. And it just reminds me of this story that I heard from. I'm trying to remember where it came from. Oh, it was from Nick Ortner. It was a book that he wrote, but I can't remember the title of the book. And he talked about, you know, the Neanderthal man for example, years and years and years ago, one of them sitting in a car They've hiding out and the other one out in the sunshine. And they hear this big crashing noise in the distance and the one in the cave goes, Oh, I better not deal with that and retreats further, even into the cave. And the one who is the sunny, happy, optimistic, let's go for it kind of person walks further out into the open, and then they're killed by the saber toothed tiger or whatever it happens to be. And, you know, and it sounds kind of funny. And like when he first described it was like, you can see it almost like a cartoon, right? But what happened is that then the person who was killed, their genetic material was never passed down. The person who survived their genetic material passed down. So you take that over generations and generations and generations. And every generation, you've got the person who jumps out and takes the risk. And guess what, they either get killed, or not these days, but you know, in ancient times, or they took a risk that made them sick or something. And so, we are the product of the generation that stayed in the cave over and over and over and over. Right? So it's one of the reasons that we feel so much fear. Because look at who produced us, the person who hung out in the cave and their child who hung out in the cave and their child who hung out in the cave, not the person who went off on the world journey. And, you know, when across the Atlantic on a raft, no, no, no, not that person. So. So it makes sense that fear is prevalent, it makes sense that we've evolved to be really sensitive to fear. And it doesn't mean that it has to stop us, because so much of what we deal with right now is not really a danger. It's just, I might be a little bit embarrassed, or I might be, you know, somebody might not like what I say or maybe, you know, in a child's case, I won't get an A with a, you know, gold star, I might only get a see, right, like, what are we fighting?

Right, right. Not necessarily life threatening. anymore? Yeah. Some some cases, perhaps, but not. Like it used to be Yes, right. 1000s and 1000s of years ago. So and fear doesn't differentiate whether it's life threatening, or it's not, if it's, you know, embarrassment, if it's, it doesn't differentiate between the two.

No, no, definitely not. And that doesn't matter whether it's the physical danger or the emotional danger, it's still considered danger. Right.

Exactly. That's exactly right. I love that. Thank you for that answer. That was really thoughtful answer and not a direction that I've ever gone before. So I appreciate that very, very much your perspective. Right, exactly. Well, that's, you know, that's what I like, keep people thinking, keep everybody on their toes, right. So, let's take a couple of minutes, because I really want to share with everybody listening this amazing, amazing technique that candy has taught me that I now keep an entire notebook that is just for this exercise. And it has been incredibly helpful. You know, if you are one that has thoughts that are just constantly swirling, if you are, which I think is probably most people write, and to write, and you just need to you need to figure out how to organize these thoughts. Name these thoughts. This is amazing. So take it away candy, I'll let you let you have it from here.

So I didn't invent this, but I just use it and I use it a lot. So every morning, I think about my thoughts. And that might sound a little bit odd to begin with. But it always starts with writing down what's inside your head. And, you know, for anybody who is feeling confused or discouraged or overwhelmed or anything, even if it's that you're having a really great day. If you could start every day with just a blank sheet of paper, and you write down your thoughts. One thought per line. The thought might be not today, or it might be this is going to be a great day and just clean Eating out what's in your head, one of my mentors said to me one time, this metaphor, it's like you're cleaning out the junk drawer in your kitchen. You know, like, you know, there's twist ties in there, and maybe post it notes and a couple of soy sauce packages, but this helps get them kind of organized, right. So that's how that's how I always recommend that people start. And it's surprising, when you start to write your thoughts down and you get them out of your head, you feel a little bit more centered, like they're not swirling around. So you can settle down a little bit and just feel more intentional about your day. So that would be where I recommend people start. And do you have questions, Heather, because I see you nodding. And I don't want to kind of run along like a break. No,

you're good. I'm nodding in agreement, because I do I love this so much. And I'm glad you're you're spelling this out. So thank you, okay.

So it's, it is a special kind of journaling, it's not just, you know, vomiting onto paper, this is listen to what's in your head and write them down. And what you'll find if you do this for a few days is that the same thoughts play over and over and over in your head, and you didn't even know that they were in there. And once they can see the light of day, then you can do something about them. And so the something that you can do is figure out a different way of thinking about your thoughts. And that's this thing that I call the TF, a formula. And so I've got this, post it note, it's a green, post it note, and I'm just this post it notes sits on my wall every day. And it has a few things on it. And it says this, and I'm just going to read it to you. Your thoughts, create your feelings, your feelings, drive your actions, and the some of your thoughts and feelings and actions create your life, they create your outcome. And at first it sounds kind of like, huh, like, What are you talking about? But do you mind if I read this example to you about how this comes about? Okay. Yeah, go ahead, please. So this is an example I shared with one of my clients, he's relatively new dad. But as I was teaching him about this TFA formula, this thing where your thoughts, create your feelings, your feelings, drive your actions, and the sum of your thoughts, feelings and actions, create your life and create your outcome. I had this way of describing it, and he really liked it. So I wanted to share it with you. So maybe you've got a teenage son, and you have had a really tough day, you walk in the door. And he is sitting on that couch watching TV. Now because you're kind of feeling notice the feeling resentful, tired, exhausted, you slam the door a little louder than normal. And you grumble to yourself as you walk into the kitchen to think about what's for dinner. You see that son sitting there, and his back is turned to you. And you get maybe you think, crap, I've been working all day and I come home to this. A back turn to me. And you might find you even snap at him. I told you to clean up, he turns around, your son turns around and snaps back. I will I will who's got your knickers in a knot, get off my back. And he storms out of the room. So you see what happened here, you had some thoughts where you felt like he should have been doing something different. You are feeling tired and grumbly. And the actions that you took, were basically yelling at your son, you slammed the door a little louder. You grumbled around, those are all actions that you took. So now let's look at it from a slightly different perspective. So again, you're walking in the day after a tough day. Your teenage son is sitting on that couch and he's watching TV. Now, same scenario, you're feeling tired and resentful. And you do slam the door a little louder than normal and you're grumbling and feeling all righteous as you walk into your kitchen. And you see him sitting there. And instead of the thinking that you originally had you have these thoughts. I'm feeling so tired. I wonder how his day has been. You know, I'm gonna take my shoes off and sit down for 10 minutes. Now notice how your awareness has diffused this grumpy mood. You're doing something thing to take care of yourself. So you take your shoes off, and you'll flop onto the couch beside your son. And you say, I had a hard day and close your eyes. And after a minute you glanced sideways at him. And you see that he's actually upset. You asked what's going on? And he says, I just got cut from the team. Do you see how the exact same scenario could turn out so differently? Just by your thoughts?

I love that example. Right? Because it is it is so simple. And it is so clear. And one of the things that is the differentiator is taking a minute, right? Yeah. And that minute of you know, whether, in this case is taking off, taking off your shoes, sitting down, taking a breath, whatever that minute is, of self care, self awareness.

Wow, is huge. It's huge. So yeah, you know, when you're thinking of the TFA formula, the actions that were different, were the sitting down, and the taking a breath and taking off your shoes and closing your eyes. The feeling that was different was all of a sudden there was like, gosh, curiosity, or reaching out for connection. And the thought that was different was, I wonder how his day has been, you know? So being aware that maybe you're you might have had a bad day, but who knows? Who knows what's happened with him? Right? Instead of assuming that, you know, so having that slightly different thought coming from a slightly different angle, where you think I wonder what's going on with him. It may be also the thought about yourself, you know, I've had such a tough day, let me just take a five minute break, that thought can change the tone of your entire evening. It can change the tone of your relationship that you have with your child, right, just one thought can make all that difference?

Absolutely, I can. Absolutely, I can. And I really appreciate you slowing that down. And really talking through that, because I think that those are pieces that are very easily glossed over. But so vitally important to communication, whether it's with our kids, our spouse, our friends, whomever, yeah. One of the pieces in there that I wonder if you would take a little closer look at is because I know that I've struggled with this as, as we've as you've been teaching me how to do this formula. And that is understanding our feelings. So being able to say, okay, here are my thoughts, you know, we can pretty easily write our thoughts down on paper, right? Get those get those out thought dump. But then taking one and saying, okay, here, here are the feelings that I have, these are the feelings that I have about this, or this is what I'm feeling. I've had a tough time with that. More like going deeper on it. You know, I think we can all do like the high level happy, sad, angry, right? But really understanding what what's going on. So I wonder if you could talk about that just a little bit how to explore that a little bit more.

Yeah. So, you know, this is the work that, you know, we do you do I do, is that our culture is so emotionally illiterate, we are so used to being busy, and doing all the things that we don't remember that we have emotions to we gloss by them. And that sort of ties back to that question about fear, you know, anyway, to avoid feeling anything other than either nothing or neutral or happy. And so, the place to start is always to write down your thoughts. But when you know that, each thought creates an emotion, you could take one thought, and read that thought that you wrote and take a breath. And then ask yourself how do I feel when I think this thought and it feels Feels a little mucky at first, when you're just first starting out with this kind of practice. So the easiest thing to do is to grab a list of emotions. And then think the thought, breathe. Ask yourself, how do I feel when I think that thought, and then look at that list of emotions, and one of those words will jump out at you. And then you can double check with yourself, is that how I'm really feeling? Am I really feeling sad? Or am I feeling disgruntled? You know, and it's building a new kind of vocabulary, we all experience our emotions within our body. Sometimes it's a tightness or a lightness, or clear breath, or the way we hold our shoulders, but will actually experience that knot in your stomach, the knot in your stomach might be how you any of the listeners feel anxiety, or it might be how you feel dread. But once you start to look at these emotion words, and start to get in tune with, oh, when my stomach feels tight like that, that's dread. Interesting. And just notice, breathe and notice. And then pretty soon, you'll start to be in tune with it, you'll be like, ah, every time I think that thought, I feel dread. There's that knot in my stomach again, and it passes so fast. Right?

So, right. Right. Does that help? I mean, it's essentially, oh, my goodness, so much. I think it's, you know, it's strengthening a new muscle, right? It's, you know, learning something, something new that is just strengthening something that ultimately makes us better humans. Yeah. And not only better humans, but we are able to, more fully, more richly enjoy this time on Earth, right? Just arcs, our human experience, when we can expand past, happy, sad or neutral, yeah,

it helps us be more human. And all of that adds more meaning to our life and more satisfaction and fulfillment. You know, so the, if I'd like to just sort of give you those steps quickly, because I don't want people thinking that this is complicated. So you start with five minutes a day of writing down the thoughts that are in your head, and you look at them. And you choose one of those thoughts. And you read it to yourself, you take a breath, and you ask how does that thought make me feel. And then you look at a list of emotions, you can go into Google and Google list of emotions. And then you look at that list, and find the word that that reflects how you're really feeling. And then I always recommend, just breathe again. And just notice that feeling in your body. That's that learning that new language, that language, that vocabulary. And that's exactly what you need to live that fuller life. Plus, also, if you're back in that place of fear, or any kind of really uncomfortable emotion, that just taking a little bit of time to actually feel it, and then breathe afterwards, you're going to be surprised because that emotion of fear is going to just dissolve so quickly. Just it'll be gone. It's the strangest thing. Emotions move just like waves. Right?

Exactly. Yeah. So they are so much fun. They are so much fun. And when you allow yourself, we're, we're so just programmed to be a resist, right? But when you begin to that, allowing, then you realize, okay, this goes by so much faster, like just sit through the uncomfortable. And the uncomfortable passive. Yeah. And, and the other lovely thing, too, that I was thinking is that when we you know, as we strengthen this, you know, our emotional IQ, right? As that becomes stronger and more broad. It allows us to recognize and others as well. So we can recognize, Oh, I wonder if this is how they're feeling. Right? So, you know, especially with our kids, then we can help them teach them when they're young and they don't have to wait until they're of our age to learn these things. And, and just, you know, again, helps with that just having a more rich and more full human experience.

Yeah. And I think our kids get this really fast. They haven't had they haven't been kind of squished into that non feeling box. You know, they're experiencing it all right now. Just giving them the language to express it as another thing. Right?

Exactly, exactly. So very, very huge. So thank you for sharing that, that I just I love that exercise so much. And I really just wanted all of you listening to, to learn it. And to it's so simple to just, you know, kind of rewind and listen again. So you can write it all down, but so simple to do, and to just make a lovely practice in your day. So thank you so much, you're so welcome. So I'm wondering if there's anything, anything else you would like to share? I do want to share with everyone how they can find you and get in touch with you. But in addition to that, before we kind of roll into that ending part. Any thoughts?

No, nothing really additional, I think that you've really captured it well, this, you know, this life, this human experience, and how owning our emotions and owning who we are exactly who we are, is exactly who we're supposed to be. Right. And even though some of the, you know, parents and allies of the teens and young young adults that you support, you know, even though they may be really struggling, and really having a tough time, just know that this is exactly the life that they're supposed to have, you know, like they were placed here in this way. And to encourage them to live their best life is the most important thing, the life that makes them satisfied and whole and happy and loved, you know?

Yes, thank you. That is exactly. I could not say that any better. That was just absolutely perfect. Thank you so much. Because we cannot be reminded of that enough. Right, exactly. So always good to be reminded. So, Candy has an amazing podcast that I mentioned at the very, very beginning, and it's called she coaches coaches. And while it is for coaches, it is also there are a lot of really amazing tips. Purchase being human, I think and listening to it. So I highly recommend you check it out. I will have links in the show notes. And just always that you can reach Candy and reach out to her. But I highly, highly recommend that you check out her podcast because it is really lovely. And if you enjoyed listening to her today, I know she's very calming and her voice is so soothing. Just listen to our podcasts so you can be sued if you have problems. If you have

problems sleeping.

She will tell you right to sleep. Now you should do like a meditation or a yoga, your voice is like is perfect for that. It's very, very calming. So

that might be part of a new pass. Who knows. Right? Right.

I wonder

for me, that was just I want love the conversation. And I'm just so honored to be on your podcast. Thank you.

You're welcome. Thank you so much for being here.