Attracting Ideal Clients: Leveraging Quizzes for Divorce Coaching Success with Mardi Winder-Adams

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to kickstart the conversation. I'm your host, Catharine O'Leary. And I am thrilled to pieces who had one of my actually one of my clients and a colleague of mine, Mardi winder-adams on the line, she is a divorce coach and helps people get through mostly women get through the fog of divorce the that in between phase of when you made the decision to get the divorce. And before the lawyers, there's a lot, there's a lot going on, there's a lot of emotion, there's a lot of questions, there's a lot of uncertainty. And those are the kind of the, the negative feelings or you know, that's not a position that you want to go into your lawyer with. Because you want to be clear and concise. And you want to be you know, make sure you know your priorities so that you're not asking for things that you know, maybe you don't need, or, you know, you forget the things that you absolutely do need. So we have Mardi here today. And Mardi actually just went through a process of creating a quiz with me. And we wanted to talk a little bit about what that process was like. But first of all, Mardi, tell us a little bit more. I mean, I gave you a little bit of a context. But tell us a little bit more about you know, what you do and who you serve.

Well, thank you, Catharine. And it's a real honor to be here on your podcast, I've so appreciated the opportunity to work with you and learn a whole lot. So I'm sure you did a pretty good job covering what a divorce coach does. In addition to being a divorce coach, I am a credential, distinguished mediator. And I have spent probably an ICF NBCC certified executive and leadership coach and I have been a behavior consultant for school districts for many, many years in Canada in the United States. So now full time divorce coaching. And I, I really feel that there is so much confusion, there's so much money that just goes down the drain in a divorce. And there's so much emotional fallout from this, that whatever you can do to protect yourself and come out feeling good, as good as you can about the situation on the other side. That's my goal as as a divorce coach. So I I wanted to start working with women earlier because I get a lot of referrals from attorneys. But these a lot of times these are women, because I only work with women. Well, I do work with a with some guys, I work with anybody who identifies as a woman. So let's put it that way. But I do work with some men who are going through divorce who who just say, Well, I really want to work with you. So but But what I find is that people really struggle with trying to do this on their own. And then before they know it, they're, you know, $100,000 in legal fees, and it's been two years. And they're just stressed and they're overwrought. And their whole life has become just putting their head down and getting through the divorce. And that's a bad place to be. So my that was my goal. And that was one of the reasons I got really excited about creating the quiz is how do I how do I let people know in the early stages when they're going through a divorce and starting to experience these feelings, that there is this profession called a divorce coach that is recognized by the American Bar Association, by the way, so it's not, you know, it's not some arbitrary thing I created. And so you so when we talk, when we talked and came up with the idea for the quiz, it's really targeting people before they get into that really dark place or before I get, you know, a call from an attorney saying, you know, my clients just really emotionally distraught and need some help. I want to be pro I want people to be proactive and taking control of their divorce and going through it on their own terms.

I mean, again, because there's so much going on, right? Like, I mean, there's the finances, there's the kids, if you have kids, there's the career, there's, you know, that's just a lot to to sort through. And we all know that like having somebody to that's been there that's done that that's helped others go through it that can say, You know what, we could do it this way. And you hadn't even thought of that, because you're kind of in the, in the middle of it. I mean, the worst, the worst time to think about you know, finding, you know, cover is in the middle of the storm. Exactly. You want to you want to get ahead of that. So, so you and I started working together to you know, basically there was there was a two there was two reasons really there was a little bit of education of exactly you know who a divorce coach was for and what you know what divorce coach does, but there was also the, you know, your passion to get out there and to help more, more women who are in this kind of in between phase of it just starting out, so let's get proactive. So tell me a little bit more about you know, that that process and what you know, like how that was for you and what, you know what some aha moments maybe were?

Yeah, so, um, I have done. I think anybody who's who's kind of got themselves situated in their, in their professional career has done a lot of work on, you know, being coach, I have had a business coach I've had, you know, I've been through the master mind. And I still continue to do that, because I think part of that lifelong learning is so important. But I really felt that I was struggling with how to how to pinpoint people at that, kind of that, should I stay? Or should I go point and then actually helping them to strategically plan the divorce and what they want to do afterwards? And I couldn't get the languaging right, I couldn't figure out how to reach them. It's not like, you know, a bunch of people contemplating divorce, go to a conference, and you've got, you know, you've it's like, it's

yeah, it's called Vegas. But yeah.

You know, 50% of the population is going to go through a divorce. But that doesn't mean every 50% of any room or whatever is going through a divorce. So my stress was really about how to identify that and what language to use. So I had my avatar, I had my I had my services, I knew what my people's pain points were, like, I knew of a marketing steps. I just didn't have a way to put it together and some kind of cohesive thing. And when we talked and you said, What about a quiz? It was like, that was my aha moment. Because every, every quiz that comes along, you know, people, people do quizzes, they don't want to do a scale, they don't want to do, you know, a long written thing to figure out where they're at. But if they can do a quiz that takes literally five questions, and then they get some real practical tips and strategies out of it. That's powerful, because it engages them. Obviously, with with you and I working together we created Well, you did a lot of work, scripted, you know, like, videos, video scripts, and we really talked about what are some effective strategies that I could provide for people that even if they didn't go any further with my coaching services, they still got something of value from the quiz. So that was the aha moment is how to break that down, how to let it make something that was a value for them, but also gave another touch point for them having an experience with me, because a lot of people, you know, know me through the podcast, or things that I do, or, you know, LinkedIn profile or whatever, but that's that one extra really personalized delivered to your inbox, touch point that I think really makes a difference for people.

And it's very customized, like it's very it meets your clients, right where they're at. Yeah, but it also provides, I mean, cuz like, there's a lot going on with the divorce. So what you and I did was sit down and said, okay, like, what are the four big buckets? Like, what are the four big worries, I guess, and, you know, we talked about finances, we talked about, you know, workplace and career, what what that's gonna look like to you, you know, afterwards, you know, if you're a CEO, and, you know, like, the conversation around the watercooler as well, if she can't, you know, keep her marriage going, how's she keep this company going kind of thing, right? Is a fear. It's not, it's not necessarily what said, but there's that fear. There's co parenting, and then there's just, you know, figuring out how to be single again, because now, scary, that's a

big one, especially if the marriage has been, you know, now the term is the Gray Divorce. So you know, if you're divorcing in your 50s, and up, and maybe you've been married for 30 plus years, or, you know, it's not uncommon, if you're in your 50s or 60s, and you're going through a divorce, that you may have literally gone from your parents home, maybe to a couple of years in college, and then into a marriage. So there really was never a time when you were a single person. So I know it sounds silly, but just even taking on the roles that your spouse was taking on, whether it was the finances, or whether it was, you know, keeping the house or maintaining the vehicles, there's all this extra stuff that comes in I know, I'm being very stereotypical there. So you know, it doesn't have to be male, female or rules. It just has to be that all of a sudden you're doing everything on your own. Managing your retirement planning for your future. Traveling on your own life. Women have a big fear of that. So yeah, how can we, how can we, that quiz really identified those four buckets or four areas and then gave some really practical tips and I'm getting such positive feedback on the quiz. It's a sneezing?

Yeah. So so what I loved about the when as we went through because as anyone that listens to this podcast knows that I get jazzed about all the quizzes, because I think every business deserves a quiz. And, you know, like, it was fun. It was fun. It was, I mean, divorce is not fun. That's not what I'm saying. But, you know, when we've kind of like, you know, on the other side, you know, once you get through the fog, and on the other side, let's talk about being single again, let's, let's, let's talk about how you you know, co parent and coexist, you know, let's talk about you know, you find is it doesn't have to be this big, scary monster. Let's, let's figure it out. And, and, you know, get through that fog, because on the other side is all sunshine. Right? And that's, that's cool.

And it really, you know, the even the converse, the conversations with you, and Catharine, you are so generous with your time on spikes, when we were on, we were on the zoom for a long time getting this language down, it really helped me clarify my message as well. So even though yes, the quiz language was important. Now I have a better in depth sense of what my clients want to see on the other side. And just that exercise alone was invaluable for me.

Right. So now Now tell us how you are using your quiz. Because this is like a real live, you know, a case study of where quizzes can be used, because you and I have talked about this. And we'd love to hear you know where you're using it and and how it's, you know, how you're incorporating it into your strategies?

Well, so the quiz is fairly new. And it's one of those, it's one of those areas of my marketing that has gone from kind of something I will, I would like to be able to mention to something I'm putting front and center. So my, my website now has like my header, my web site header. And then the next big block, right above the fold is the quiz. And it's, you know, it's very, it gets the bullet points it talks about take the 62nd quiz. So it's very engaging. I think a lot of people are really scared now about discovery calls exploratory call strategy calls, whatever you want to call them now, because everybody perceives they're just a sales call in disguise. So this is a nice, this has been really effective. I think as an alternative to that, hey, schedule a 30 minute call. People are like hell no, I don't want to interact with with anyone, anybody. I just want to get some information. So this is a nice thing. So right on my website, I'm doing I do a podcast. So the the quiz is now getting mentioned in the podcast. And thanks to thanks to Katherine, I'm going to start doing a short little 32nd ad in the podcast that talks about the quiz just offers it to people. And then I'm doing a series of live guest appearances, kind of mini summits. And the the quiz will be dropped in the in the chat for people to do it'll all it is also on the thank you page. So once people register for the the series or the summit, whatever you want to call it, they will then get the thank you page. And that sort of says, Hey, in the meantime, while you're waiting for the summit to start are the the series the real divorce Talk series to start. Take the quiz. So I think that there's lots of opportunity. It's when I go to JV events now and I say I have a quiz. I'm finding people are going, Hey, quizzes are high converting Yeah, I'll work with you. I'll be an affiliate I'll promote, because it's something interactive for their audience so much better than Hey, download this. And I used to have this giveaway 1010 Questions to Ask Your divorce attorney before you hire them. And that got a great response. But it wasn't big in the JB events like people would go like yeah, that's nice a checklist but I say a quiz. Specially when I say I'm not I'm not joking about this. A quiz that Catharine. O'Leary design. It's like, yeah, that's good. We got it because people know you. So I'm using it everywhere.

Everywhere I can, including an upcoming book, I believe.

Yes. That's another thing. Thank you. So I have a book that I have published that well, that's in the works now it's in the in the rough draft stage. And I have embedded the quiz in that in a few different places. And the quiz will also my website with the quiz will have a QR code and I'm doing a banner so that when I'm speaking you know that that you are is going to be sitting there people can scan it go to go do the quiz and then they obviously they're on my website so then they can do all the other stuff there too. So really, it's I just see there's really no place that I can't use it.

Yeah, so we've got it now on your website. We've got it on your in your email, swipe copy, you're talking about it in networking groups. You are putting Get into your book. Yeah, you're using it on your podcast. So is it? Is it fair to say that it's kind of gotten you focused a little bit like laser focused on this is, this is how you get into my community, you know? And we go from there. So does that make the follow up any easier? On the back?

Yeah, yeah, because I don't have an exploratory call where it's just open, I don't have that anywhere on my website anymore. I've taken all that off. So basically, it's it's almost like a funnel effect, where they have to go, they have to do the quiz, because they've at least committed to do that 62nd quiz, they've committed to read the report, because they have to do that to get to the book book, your free session, they've lit probably listened to the video. You know, I can't control that. But hopefully they have, most people will listen to the video, I think before they actually read stuff. So by the time they've done all that, and they book the call, now I have an opening statement when you know, an opener to get on the call. So when they call, they say, Hey, my name is so and so I'm like, Hey, I'm I'm already. And, you know, thanks for booking this call. Tell me Wait, tell me what you found by doing the quiz. And then they start talking. And they give me all the information about why they're calling me what their problems are, what their pain point is. And a lot of them. Two of the ladies that I just spoke to the other day said, Well, you know, it's really interesting, because I found out that my priority was financial. And I understand that, and that's a problem. But I'm also really worried about the co parenting side. And so then we could, you know, we could talk about how those two things are kind of hand in hand, right? Your finances and your co parenting. And so it, it was just really effective to to start that conversation. And to not make it be awkward because they've already committed to the quiz, they've already got value out of that, or they wouldn't be doing the call. So bringing up the quiz, where it right away reinforces the fact that hey, you know, I've made some value. Yeah, you've called me. Yeah, yeah.

Effectively, and then it's not, you've already discovered, so it's not a discovery call anymore. Now, it's, I'm interested in learning more about what Mardi does. Yeah. And how she might be able to help me. So that conversation is like becomes about your offer, not like this kind of weird salesy proposed marriage on the first date thing?

Yeah, absolutely. And you know what, it's interesting, because they are bringing up the fact that I never thought about a divorce coach, and I really want to find out what a divorce coach does, well, then that opens up the door for me to talk about my programs, and they've invited it. And it's not some backhanded sneaky, you know, mine ninja thing. It's like very organic. It's very natural. And they're asking the questions.

That's, that's awesome. So let's, let's just switch gears a little bit, because I'd love to talk a little bit more about your real divorce series. There's brand new talk about it. It's what do you call it real divorce, real divorce talks, real divorce talks, real divorce talks? Because they're happening a couple of times a year. So let's let's just give people you know, whether they join right now or later on. But can you give us just because I know it's exciting. I know. It's new. And and it's, it's a it's a super cool idea.

Yeah, it's something brand new, and well, not well, it's not brand new. It's a it's a it's a version of something that's out there. But you know, a lot of people have been doing these summits, especially since you know, COVID, where there's a whole day with a phenomenal number of speakers, sometimes hundreds of speakers, and you pick different speakers. And I just find I work with busy professional career women, busy moms, people things to do and places to be and they don't have eight hours to sit in front of a computer. So what we've done is we've broken it down into 245 minute talks that go back to back, and it's depending on where you are like here in Texas, it's going to be like from five to 630. So that's what three to I can't do this in my head very well on the fly three to three to 430 if you're on the Pacific side and six to you know, whatever on the on the eastern side. So it's two speakers, and they're going to talk on a specific topic that applies to women going through divorce. So there I've got LCSW licensed social workers, psychotherapists, nutritionalist mind work professionals, health, doctors have come on stress management experts. It's it's the whole gamut. And what it is, is it's a 45 minute talk where it's live, and then people get a chance to You listen to the education information and motivation provided by the speaker here about the speakers course program or offer, and then ask questions. So it's more interactive. And again, short, sweet. And to the point it's going to run every quarter. This year it's running. The first one is July 11 12th, and 13th. And then we've got another one, the end of September and another one the end of November. And, yeah, so I'm, I'm really excited to get it launched.

And it's, and I love the idea of as soon as somebody because because you promote earlier than the summit, and then you can, you know, I love the idea of putting the quiz on the thank you page, so that people can engage and, you know, stay stay kind of connected in between the registration and the actual talk. So that's, that's amazing, Marty. Hey, how do people get in touch with you, if they want to find out more if they want to take the quiz if they want to, you know, to connect and maybe work with you a little bit? Yeah,

I would, I'm always welcome to having anybody just, you know, take the quiz. That's the thing, just take the quiz. It's fun, do it. My website is the best place. It's www dot divorce coach for women. And that's the number four. So it's divorce coach number four women.com. And if they're interested in the summit, it is real divorce talks.com. So that's easy to remember.

And those will both be in the show notes, folks. So if you are in the process of going through that divorce and kind of in that fog and trying to trying to sort through things, you know, you owe it to yourself to take the quiz and get some guidance. We you know, Marty spent a lot of time and effort and love into those, like those reports are really love letters to you. So, you know, take the quiz and connect. Because I can guarantee you that you know there is the you know, it may not it may not feel like it right now but there is light at the end of the tunnel and and you know, Mardi can help you get through that. So, connect and thank you for listening and we will see you next week. Thanks, Mardi.