The Mirror of Grief

All right, everybody, I'm glad to be back again. Excited, as usual, to have another guest here to speak to a gentleman I got to speak to you recently, and learn a bit about where he's been and where he's going. And we're gonna dive into that a lot more tonight. My guest tonight is Ian Hawkins. He's the founder of the Grief Code. Dealing with grief firsthand, through the passing of his father back in 2005 planted the seed in Ian to discover what personal security and legacy truly are. The experience was the start of a journey that released or to release sorry, the unresolved and even unknown grief that was negatively impacting every area of his life. The following of his own intuition, led him to leave corporate world and follow His purpose of creating unity for himself. And others. The Grief Code is a divinely guided process that enables every living person to uncover their unresolved, and unknown grief, and dramatically change their life. And the lives of those they love. 1000s of people have now moved from doubt to certainty, using this exact process. So welcome in and thank you so much for agreeing to be here and allow us to kind of delve into your life and hear about so many of the things that you have been learning and sharing with your family.

Speaking of family, that's just my daughter popping in and out of the door. So apologies for the background noise. But thank you to Kevin for having me. It's great timing be on a dance podcast.

Yeah, no problem with that. We've got family and this has happened. That's one of the things I love, actually. So we're not in this. We're not in this polished world anymore, where everything has to be perfect. And yeah, great. You have a little interruption of real life and suddenly got to start all over again.

Exactly. Just fine. It's funny that even within an 18 year old when you say I'm about to record a podcast, please be quiet. I still get a door open goodbye, and then slam the door on the way out.

Yeah, it's uh... some things take a while to learn. Very good. It's all good. So, to kind of, I mean, there's the there's the brief version of your of your bio, but in terms of, of your parenting and grief, and so on, I mean it all. It often starts with us as children and how we are parented. So tell us a little about... a little more detail, I guess, about this the passing of your father and how that that impacted you and triggered this kind of deep dive process into your own existence and journey.

Yeah, absolutely. So I talked about in my story, the moment where he came to the door, and he was dropping something off. And then he said, Are you know that money owed me? Well, don't worry about paying it back. And for me, that was like, that floored me because I knew exactly what he meant. But it also sort of comes back to what my own experience with him which was, I always felt this disconnect. I'm an extrovert, loud, he's introvert, quiet. So we didn't find a heap of ways to connect. But he loved children. He loved looking after children, he looked after my oldest siblings, children. And I was so excited about this connection we're going to have through through my children. And I can still remember when I rang the house to say to their house to say that we just had a little girl, that just the joy in his voice. And so that was amazing. But then 10, short months later, he's gone. And that sort of all of that came crashing down, and everything come flooding to the surface. And I just can remember sitting there at the funeral, hearing all these amazing things that he'd done and the impact you've had on so many different people. And I just have this feeling of inadequacy. Because I looked at my own life and said, Well, if it was me there today, what would people say? Now, I know that people would have been saying nice things, because I, you know, obviously you were always really self critical. But when I started asking myself those questions, I really didn't like the answer. Now, what preceded them was probably a lot to do with my own relationship with Him is as my children got older, there's this angry Dad that starts coming out. And while I wanted to change that was one of the big motivators. It was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to be, I don't want children to be scared of me, or I want my children to be reacting in a way where, like, I'm on my best behavior at work. And then I bring all that home. And yeah, so I really didn't enjoy that side of me. So the grief element was, obviously when someone passes, is there's a massive amount of grief. But it's all of the tsunami of grief that then followed around all of my stuff with my Dad, that was unresolved. And then as it turned out, unknown, there was a heap of stuff that I didn't even know, that came to the surface. And that started me on my journey of wanting my life to be different. And then discovering all of these elements of the disconnect that not only was that had impacted our relationship, but it was now impacting me as a father as well.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, you're saying about how you didn't want this to continue? And I think a lot of people not enough, perhaps, but a lot of people do come to this point somewhere where they go, you know, I don't want to keep passing on what I've learned or received. So can you can you give us some idea? I mean, obviously, looking at, you're looking at your life a lot through the lens of grief, just because of the circumstances and so on. But what was some of the steps in the process that you went through to... to kind of deal with that? Because I think a lot of us, we go, okay, this isn't I don't like this. There's something going on that I'm not happy with. But how do I change it? Where do I start?

Yeah, and that was the challenge. So I spent the next six years spinning the wheels wanting to change but not knowing how. And it wasn't actually until we went through the global financial challenges we went through in the round around 2008/2009. Where, where I really got traction, and that was from a conversation with my sister in law, where she was talking about her Dad was working and I said I wasn't even retiring. She said, Oh, yeah, because he's he's superannuation, which we have in Australia, his retirement superannuation had dipped because of the markets. And I just remember thinking, what buy How can that be? How can l our whole, all of this money that we're putting towards our retirement be then at the mercy of the mark gets and then we lose control of of what that could be. And so then we can't make a decision based on what we want, we have to make it a financial decision. So that that was the moment that like, Okay, well, I want to set up my, my future for for me and my family. I don't want that to be the case. So then it was like asking questions from from a wealth perspective. And I've had a few different conversations, but a file it was with my brother, and he was said, I'll send you a link to this, probably the best thing a sibling could have done. He didn't, he didn't direct me or push me, he just said, I'll send you a link of this guy I know personally, and I will, tell you have a look at it. So I'm just being distracted. Because then another member of my family wants to come in, they can't, which is great. We've got the dog, the cat. And I'll just leave the door open now. Because if no one else he like can come and go. So sorry, that just broke my concentration. So. So then I he sent me this link. And I started listening to the person that he referred me to this, this guy had an opt in, I opted in, he started sending audio that was about wealth building. But most of what he was talking about was mindset, and self improvement, and having a mentor, all of these things that made me cringe, but also that I knew I needed to hear. And so that took me on a journey of like, okay, well, we're going to build our wealth. And I went to his seminar when he when he first said, I've got this going on. So I went to it. And he spent the morning talking about property. And then he spent the afternoon talking about mindset. And when he said at the end, you know, the end of those days, they sell, from the back of the stage, or the front of the stage, this was and and what I have to do this, I just knew in my heart that I had to do this. And I went up to the front of the stage. And I said to him, Look, I really want to do this, but I know when I get home, my wife's gonna say, you know, you've, you've been, you've been sold to something or whatever. And he said, well, like, Okay, before you have that conversation, what why do you want to do this, and it was one of those moments where words came out of my mouth without a conscious thought about it, it kind of happened and even surprised me. And I said, because I'm sick of being mediocre. And so that that was the moment where, okay, I need to change. And so the steps were is I committed to doing that program. And at the time when this thing was $2,500, which, for me at that time, I would never have considered investing in myself, let alone that sort of money now now, knowing the benefit of it and going through his 12 month mentorship and the impact that had on my whole life and the life of my family, that I there's no hesitation. Now, if it's the right thing that I know that investing was worth more than investing in anything else. And so then it's learning the steps. And part of the first steps was releasing the grief around my dad. And then it was like, Well, you've got to have a plan, and you got to have a strategy, and you got to have structure or real basic fundamentals. That got me heading in the right direction. But then he also introduced me to Jim Rohn. And the first video he sent me was when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Right? And I'm like, Oh, wow. Because I had I had sent him a message and said, I'm loving all your audios. But I think I've listened to them all over and over again. Now what else can you send me? Now he didn't send me one. But he posted that on your social media like two days later. And so then I find Jim Rohn. And then I'm just listening to all his stuff. I couldn't get enough of it. So there's like listening to inspiring stuff. And he talked about keeping a journal. And he talked about having goals and visions. And, and it's a long answer to your question that probably the most beneficial and powerful impact was from journaling. And I started journaling every day. And I probably wrote way too much. But I just found it's so therapeutic and so beneficial. So to start making change, the journal gave me personal accountability. It got me to recognize what was going well, that got me to pause at the end of the week and see, even a week that I didn't think was good, just how much good there was. And it also got me to see, be accountable to myself at the end of the day, what hadn't gone well. And then want to improve the next day because I didn't want to write in my journal the next day about what wasn't good. I wanted to write about what was good. And yeah, just such a simple but powerful tool that really set me on the path of improvement.

Oh, that's that's awesome. Appreciate all that. That's that's the lot of share and you, and you brought ... because there's a few things I'd love to kind of dive a little deeper into there. One, I think it was doesn't need a lot of explanation was your you kind of pointed out a couple of motivators. One was the pain of mediocrity. But before that you had talked about the motivator of your family and not wanting to pass on on this thing. And so and when You describe the pains particularly it was like, Okay, this is just gotten to the point where I can't take it anymore. And I got to do something about it. Right. So it's just, that was kind of what moves ..

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely that

Interesting that the journey that you allowed yourself to go on, and I think some of us, like, I know, I've missed this in the past, where I'm looking at something, you were looking at the finances. And I have a sense that you, you knew that wasn't, I don't think money was really your priority, but it was a pain point, right? But, but you allowed yourself to explore that, and it actually pulled you around into the things that were actually most important. Just by following that initial lead.

Absolutely, I didn't have a conscious awareness that it was anything else except money. Like, I was building security for myself and for my family. And I wanted to build wealth, because I was sick of like, sort of, even though things that like, we'd never struggled, but um, like, I want to be, I want to have more choices I want to have, I want to have more disposable income, like it was very much that selfish sort of materialistic drive. But what I didn't realize is that what he was going to teach me was actually all about myself. So I thought it was a journey of wealth building. And it was, because we bought a couple of investment properties and did quite well. But way more important than any of that was, it was actually, what are the journey of self, that was going to be the most beneficial to Yes, to me, of course, but the that comes back to that goal of being an angry dad, for my relationship with my wife and my kids.

So let's touch on that now. Because there's two, there's two important things here. One is, you're going through some significant change. Now, you know, kudos for being willing to do that, that's a big step to begin with. But now, now you're changing, so your wife, your that relationship is going to change, and then with your kids, so, and our relationship with our wife, some of us see this more than, than others, perhaps. But especially when you're going through these changes and things you recognize how important that relationship is, because you are walking into some new territory. And as you've said, she you expected her or you were warned that she might be going out what KoolAid you've been drinking? So, tell us a bit about some of the key points of that, that those conversations and that process of, of how you came on board with it, or maybe she was fairly quickly on board.

I gotta tell you that the story of how that unfolded is beautiful. That's one of the divinely guided pieces, I believe, because I came home. And we were we had young children at this point. So we were rushing around doing whatever we needed to do. And I'd been out all day. So I was probably like, you know, he go do this, this and this. And I said, "I like this, I really want to do his program." And of course, she was skeptical. And I said, "I want to talk about it." she goes, "Oh, yeah, but like, we've got stuff to do." (And then the I'm a rugby league fan here in Australia is our big sport in where I am in Sydney.) "You want to watch your team play. And and then the night will be over. And, and you know...", because they liked so she was trying to sort of dodge that conversation I, thinking about it now. And this got it got her attention. And I believed and I'm like, "I don't care about the footy. This is more important." And she was like, "Oh!", I could just see the shift. Okay, now you've got my attention. Right? So, so the chances of that game being on at that particular time? Well, that that was the bit that really had a thinking, okay, he's serious about this, because I wouldn't have missed the game for anything back then. And so it was us talking through it, and then making a decision that together will we were going to invest in this because because of XY and Z and again, it was probably the conversation was around financials, which we... we had a hunger to learn more about anyway. So that's the first bit. But then one of the very first, probably the first thing that my mentor Michael taught me and when I say taught me it was all through an online program. So the interaction with him was actually very brief through it, except these videos that he got sent every week. And it was creating a vision for your life and having yourself as the most important part of that vision. So getting clear. I still teach us today getting clear on the top priorities of your life, putting them in order of preference and in an impact. Wouldn't an importance. So having that list prioritized. And he said, "You should be at the top of that list. Because if you're not looking after yourself, then how can you possibly be the best for everyone else?" And then the second thing, he said, "for me, my wife is the most next most important thing, because you might think your children are the most more most important, but but you want to be a role model to them, they're gonna get far more out of what they observe from you than what you tell them. So being the best husband or wife, or whichever partnership you have, is going to have the biggest impact." So despite that, I still got my original journal, just down here on the bookshelf, I put myself at four, I put my relationship with my wife, first, and then my kids second, and then I kind of always third, but I put myself at four. Now think about now my madness. So, so now when I coached I like, I won't tell you to do anything. Like I went directly to do anything, but you get to choose. But the only thing I will strongly recommend is that when you do this process that you put yourself at the top of that list, and this is why. And so being able to then prioritize that first my own well being, which I eventually did come around to when when he re addressed that vision, probably about four or five weeks later, when I realized he was right, and started prioritizing my well being and then my relationship with my wife was, okay, well, let's start having more of those challenging conversations. And we were both doing the program together. And that was probably at the time was the best thing, because we were both able to watch the videos together. So suddenly, we had something beyond just being parents, two young children, we had something beyond ourselves, which was motivating, again, initially driven by the the financial side of things, but we got so much more out of it than we could have imagined.

Yeah, well, that's awesome. I appreciate you sharing all that. Because that priority basis, which I totally agree with, setting priorities that way. And it's Yeah, look, a lot of us struggle with that. Right? We we think, Oh, we're gonna look after the kids, and we're gonna care for them. And they're, they come first and we we neglect ourselves and our spousal relationships. So appreciate you saying that.

Yeah. And to the detriment of our children as well, at the same time by doing that,

yeah, in the end, it is. Yeah, absolutely. So. So now you're going through this, this growth process, and awesome that you got to go through that with your wife. So you're very much on the same page, I guess, in general, as you go through that now, one of the challenges that I always come up with for myself, as I'm sure others, do, they, the kids, so there's two sides to this I'm curious about for you. One is how you take these lessons that you're learning and bring them to the children or whether that's a deliberate process with you or something that you just kind of allowed to happen, sort of through osmosis. The other thing is about the challenges with the kids because I have found that my children are my greatest source of information in terms of what I need to change about myself.

Yes, absolutely. So a couple of things come to mind. I can remember sitting there a couple of times in having playful situations with them, and doing some role playing or games or whatever else, like my daughter played with a lot of Barbie dolls, and at a doll's house and all those sorts of things. And when you hear your behavior mirrored directly back to you in a way that you do not like the sound of nothing has you like paying attention more than that, right? So one in particular, was Barbie's having a party. And Barbie had everything right. So so wife, Kate's mom had been collecting Barbie since she was a little girl. So we're talking 20 something years. So Barbie had everything while we still got creative and under the house for the grandchildren. And she says to me, Oh, Dad, we're having a party. I better bring beer, right? Because you've got to have beer at a party. And and again, for some of you might be thinking, Well, yeah, that's obvious. But I was going through a period of are wanting to change and I'm like, have that's how deep the programming rounds that she associates party with beer, and probably not in a healthy way. Because when the younger party's when, when it's a bit more about the parents, well, then we'd have we'd have the same sort of gatherings we'd had prior to that. And it's like, oh, yeah, no, I gotta be better than that. Like, this is the programming that they that we create in them that they just sort of blurt out the same thing. Something wanted to touch on with what you talked about is like they're our greatest teachers. And then one of the other really powerful lessons I learned was his needing to be right. And, and then learning about forgiveness and, and apologizing. Because up until that point, you know, I was the father, right I was the sort of the All Knowing all powerful. And I'm never wrong, don't talk back to me all this sort of toxic stuff that I'd had modeled to me or my now, it's not actually healthy. So it's starting to have the the, we didn't go into a heap into the personal development stuff except we started implementing those sorts of things where it's like, it's actually okay for us to be wrong. It's okay to apologize to them, it's okay to, to let them have a voice and to be able to have conversations. And as we talk, another thing comes to mind is blame. I'd very much in that blame space where everything else, everything was someone else's fault. So they were making me angry, they were doing this, they were doing that. And that wasn't true. That was just I was being triggered by all of this different stuff that was going on in my world. And I needed to address that. So we can come back to my mentor Michael, but also Jim Rohn. Sounds like you got to take full responsibility. Now, you might think this is him, I'll paraphrase. You might think, well, there's a whole lot of stuff there that's outside of your control that happens to you, how could that possibly be your responsibility? He said, But the moment you can take responsibility, ie how you respond to that, then you take back control of your life, you take back your power, and you're able to make changes. And for me that was like, really confronting, but just so powerful, because it meant that I had to then start asking, every time I came up with any, anything that I didn't like, Okay, what's my part of this? And that's something that I continue to take forward today, and has been a significant game changer in my life and my relationships with my family.

Well, I appreciate that. And I'm curious, are you someone... I think I know the answer this from what you've been sharing. But, are you someone, for example, when you were sitting with your daughter playing Barbies, and she's talking about beer? What did you do in that moment? Is that kind of, Are you the kind of guy who goes start? Start the conversation right there? Or did you just kind of, it's kind of sat with you, and then later you just started modeling differently?

I can't remember. But, But I wouldn't think I would have said, Oh, it doesn't have to, I think I would have had enough, enough awareness at that point to go now I can actually can change this conversation. I can change this situation by what conversation I have. But we but we all know that they're going to take far more from our behavior than they do what we tell them to do. And yeah, so I, I couldn't give you a definitive answer that but I but I do know that these conversations would have been much different as I went through that journey.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So can we explore a little bit more, this idea of journaling? That was obviously a key thing for you? Are you still journaling?

I am, I'm certainly not as what's the word? Like, it was just so important to me that I had to do it every afternoon. At the end of my working day, I used to do on the train on the way home until I realized that actually, you know, this is for the benefit of my workplace, I'm actually going to do it in my work time. So I would do it at my desk before I left. Now I do it. So meditation was another real key part which which we might get into, which was kind of one of the next big steps to becoming a calmer and more patient, dad. So I take my journal when I'm meditating, because we forget no idea. I don't want to have it lost, and I'll jot it down. But then I also like will journal around different things, maybe making sense of some dreams that I've had. And what's going well, and then again, just asking those questions of I'm not sure about the answer to this. I can write the question because Jim Rohn described it as I'm not I'm not sure of the magic of this. But you know, if you write a question or as I now know that whether you believe it from a law of attraction perspective, or just really basic science, is that your unconscious when given clear direction, we'll find the answer. And if you want more of the science around that someone like Dr. Joe Dispenza, spells it out really well. Give your unconscious a really clear focus, the more clarity you get, it'll find the answers. So that's the sort of thing that I still use it for now. But probably mostly is around when I get were unconscious speaking to me, which happens through dreams and meditation, that's when I take the notes. And then sometimes the awareness comes through the writing process through the journaling process. But at other times, it comes later in the day just by the fact that I've got it down on paper, and I've allowed my, my mind to sort it out.

Yeah. Now the other thing that's coming to me is you're... so going back to your, the financial journey. You know, you shared that it was initially your focus was finances, and you're talking about there was a number of factors, I guess, there, there's just the basic security in the sort of not too distant future, like you're looking at retirement, things like that, but also wanting freedom and options now. So looking from a financial perspective, and leaving something for your kids, so legacy there, that all of that is very definable, measurable, and understandable. All right, so let's dive into the other side of the legacy that is important to you. Right. But the kids and how do you approach what you're leaving for them in terms of this self awareness and all the journaling? All the things that you've been learning and going through? What's your approach to bringing that to them? And helping them to kind of adopt and, and take that stuff on for themselves?

Great question. And I'll tell you why. Because for the longest time, I was a recovering control freak. And I was trying to get them to do it. And this is how it is and all that sort of stuff. And it's only been probably in the last two, three years, where it's surrendering that control. And it was actually my eldest, my daughter, when when she was saying different things about like, what was going on, me assuming that had something to do with me or my wife, assuming she would like, What makes you think, Well, I'm going through now has got anything to do with you. And that was really confronting, but it was actually the best thing because she could have said, because it's like, oh, yeah, I'm not responsible for her happiness. She's now 15, or 16, or whatever she was. And the other part was, is that she went through a really tough time, four years ago, she'd got Oh, actually, it's probably more like six years ago, now times gone pretty quick. She had had some online bullying and the transition to high school have been quite a challenge. And we were both working in our corporate jobs, working long hours, driven by money and a whole lot of other different things. And although we won't go into that at this point, but whatever was driving us to continue to push in that area, and she had been really struggling for a long time, she wasn't eating as much, she'd lost a fair bit of weight. But she told us later that she'd actually been having some pretty intense moments where she was, you know, thinking about her own, like whether whether she would self harm and that sort of thing. So when you hear that, it kind of a real smack in the face. And what what I've learned is that when you continually justify other people's behavior, which which is, which is okay in the right context, but if they're bringing something forward to you, and you're continuing to say, well, you know, how to think about how what they're going through it, it's like, you're not validating them. And every time you try and give them a solution, and and try and fix it, and be really instructional, that's not what they want to hear. And for some of you, you might think that's, that's obvious. But for me, it was like, That's just you know, that a lot of a lot of parents, a lot of men, a lot of dads, we want to fix things, because we're good at it. And I was diving into fixing to the point where she just stopped talking to me about these things at all. And then that took a few years for that to really sink in and ultimately, like, just providing a safe space, so that they could talk. And I would just listen. And if they wanted help, they would ask. And so that's what's happened is that more and more me providing that space, then they want to ask about the stuff because they're seeing that, like they've seen that I'm not like I used to be like I was angry, aggressive, all those different things. They've seen how much better I am, how I don't react to them anymore. I'm able to stay calm, how that I'm able to do whatever it is that I do that's different. And they want a bit of that, whether consciously or unconsciously, they're like, okay, well, dad showed me what happens here, like show me this. And it's completely counterintuitive to what we probably all got parented, or most of us, and what sort of is our natural inclination. And so letting go of that control and giving them control, which is, again, completely foreign to what they're experiencing out there. So my daughter's going through her her last year of school going through all the final year exams, and all her friends are stressed, and they're getting so much pressure from their parents. Whereas we are putting zero pressure on our daughter, to what a mark she gets, she's driving that, but she actually knows what she wants to do next year. And it relies on zero, marks, or scores, or university entrance level numbers, it doesn't rely on any of that. So once you get in the school exams have zero impact on our life. And from my own experience the same, right, like I did a 'Uni' degree, which is like, I mean, it was a teaching degree, so I'd maybe get something out of that. But to do what I'm doing now, I don't need any of those things. Now, the beauty of that is that she's much more comfortable going through this, she's also a bit like a dad, she's naturally holding counsel for a lot of these friends who are going through stress and helping them. But it just allows them to be both so much happier to have that control. They're they're learning now, how to be empowered, instead of then getting to down the track. And, and not knowing how to be able to self regulate and self driven all those things. Because we're allowing them space to explore that now. I can't remember what your question was, did that answer it?

Yes. Yes it did, that was great. And I want to go if I'm curious to what your, your process was when, when she kind of challenged you with that, which one of those big ouch moments? Yeah, what makes you think it's about you. But as you describe, letting go and doing what was completely counterintuitive, the exact opposite of what you feel naturally inclined to do and what logically you think you're supposed to do, in terms of just kind of backing off and letting them go. How was that process for you? Because I know a lot of us struggle with the, the fear that if we, if we don't keep guiding the process, they're gonna go off the rails and something is gonna happen, like, how did you process that to allow yourself to give her space?

It wasn't quick. And as you were asking that question, I was drawn to the fact that this is gonna sound like it's really easy, but like, the when I when I talked about when I started up that mentor, that was 11 years ago. So I'm talking about nine years later on, I'm realizing this is the case. So and the journey was was okay, as I mentioned before, it's like, well, what part can I play this, if I'm reacting this way, what's going on for me? So I was a very fearful and safety conscious parent, and wanting to make sure that they're okay, and safe, and all those different things. What it was, was actually showing me my own fear. And so that's as much as it might seem, again, counterintuitive, and and, and a struggle to face is when your children are going through challenges, and they're going through things that they're not getting, and they're having these things presented. Yes, we we help guide them as they need, particularly when they're younger. But the real work is on us. The better we can show up, the less fear we have, the more calm we have. We're not angry, we're not getting not having these reactions, and the better our children, because again, they get so much more from us as the role model than us as the instructional dictator almost, right? Which is, which is how I had grown up learning and then and then repeating that same pattern. So at the moment, when that came to me, like for me, I'd got to that point of like, okay, well, I need to address this myself. You said before, it was good that you and your wife and on this journey together well, she did for that part. But then I very much just went on my own journey of like, I had a thirst for it. Now, she didn't say much at that point. Of course, because of what we've learned in that first year, she, she made massive progress and, and made a lot of changes, and we did it together. But for me in terms of the the self stuff, like I just that's what I've done for the last 11 years is thrown myself into it, particularly when I started doing it as my career. So five years ago, I left my corporate I'd done it part time till then But then I was going into this full time like I need to I need to know as much as I can about this. So the ability to say when that's presented that you and be able to react and say okay, well I can take responsibility for this And then ask if there's anything we need help with. And if she says no, just being able to honor that, that's that's taken some time to get to that point.

Yeah. Brilliant. Appreciate that open sharing there. Fantastic. Welcome. One thing I'd like to touch on. We talk, when we talk about grief. And this is I think this is something that really relates a lot to our kids. Often we're thinking of, when the topic of grief comes up, we're thinking of big things, right? You're passing of your dad, my collision and things like that, when okay, there's there's loss. It's obvious, and we, we kind of universally recognized that. One of the things that's been coming to me over the over the years is, is all the little things that I don't grieve, and it and I'd like to hear your, your thoughts on this, because for me, I think I've taken the stance that grief is a... I haven't studied it the way you have, it's a bit of a process. And I think it should be, to some extent, and so when I think of little things, like, you know, I didn't get a job I wanted or there was, I wanted to go to a game, I didn't get to go to the game, it was it was important to me, but then something happened and, and I lost out on that opportunity that I would really have appreciated. These little losses, it just feels like really, you're gonna go through some process to get over that grief. But I kind of think I shouldn't be.

Yeah, it's, it's a another great question. And from what I've learned is that even what people say is, oh, here's the seven stages of grief. That's just something that someone made up. It doesn't mean, it's going to be the same for you. And yes, there are certain stages, which, you know, we go through acceptance, and denial, and all those different things, but doesn't always happen in the same order doesn't happen, like the same speed, like sometimes that, you know, like, you can go through all these different things that it takes, it takes some time. And it's, as you describe the big stuff, we tend to process, but it's all the things that are linked to that big stuff. So the reason why I was so stuck after my dad passed, was not because he passed. I mean, obviously, there's a level of grief that they continue to play out. But it was all of the stuff that that I had playing out, for me, as a result of my stuff around my relationship with my dad. Now, there were certain things that that obviously, he brought to the party, which which weren't beneficial to me. But I had choices all through those years of how I reacted to that. And I chose one way and these, these choices, and these patterns were still playing out. So it was learning to identify some of these patterns and then rewire them. So ah, and I was just going to actually I was just gonna ask is like, again, I've done I've I'm getting on track with the question, because quite a bit of a flow. I just talked and I forgot what I was originally intending to say.

I know the feeling that No, that's good. I was just gonna say, to help us learn to recognize these, some of these little things. Can you share any examples of the little ones from kind of the spin offs from from your dad passing?

Well, control is definitely a big one. Suppressing emotions, and other one, learning more about the different ways that people have needs and how they're met and different ways of operating. So when, at a really basic level, right? We are taught, rightly or wrongly, from a very young age. Don't be sad. Don't be upset, don't be angry. Don't be this. Don't be that right. So these patterns become hardwired because as you know, when you hear a repeated pattern of language, it becomes something that you adopt, that gets imprinted in your unconscious and you repeat it. Then we grow up, and we have these emotions and where it particularly becomes heightened is initially when you become a teenager. Then when you become a parent, they're the two that really stand out to me, perhaps when you go into the workforce as well. So the the unconscious wiring is I can't show emotion. But our body is telling us there's something going on here. And there's something that needs to be dealt with. So we get this internal contradiction, this internal turmoil of these two differing thoughts, behaviors, feelings, everything, creating this, like, tension in the middle of us. So the learning ways to actually be okay with whatever emotion that you're experiencing, and then finding healthy ways to process them, will allow you to move through those little deaths, those little moments of grief that we don't quite recognize, and not allow them to impact us. Because we'll talk a lot about that the mid range, grief, we tend to deal with the big things, but at the other extreme is that really big stuff, we tend to block. And then or we don't probably process and then the little things. So something happens as a dad, "don't sweat, the small stuff", "whatever, it's not that important", "This didn't happen", "I'll just do it myself". Now that those behaviors are okay. But it does create frustration within us, it creates anger within us, and on its own is fine. But over the course of a day, or a week or a month, they add up. And I look, I liken it to a kettle. So you've you've added all of these little tiny drops of moments into your system. And slowly that kettle fills up now for me back in the day, those drops would have filled up, like in half a day or a day, right. So you get in towards midway through the day that my kettle is full. And as soon as you apply the heat, which was a moment I walk in door in the door, and there's tension from children who are not had needs met, they've been looked after by other people all day, a wife is also tired, then that's when like, the heats applied and there's steam, and everyone gets burned. And then we're all left feeling even worse. So it's now it's about what how can we process that, that emotion, allow ourselves to get through those mini Stages of Grief really quickly, so that we're not having that pent up. emotion that causes us so much dramas. It creates mental health problems, because then we start getting in our head and wondering why this this this and this happens. Why did I react with that? Oh, you've done it again, then we start, you know, beating ourselves up all of those different things, because of this pattern of suppressing emotions or whatever.

Yeah. So I guess your, your idea on the you know, don't sweat the small stuff, the way of not sweating, it really would be to kind of just quickly process and just recognize Okay, that's there. Yep. This is this is what it really is what it represents. And that's okay. Now I can kind of go on and it will become an issue. As opposed to, I guess, our natural interpretation of that what I mean, I've heard that all my life too. Like, it's just oh, well just ignore that. Don't even think of it. Shut it down. Of course, should I kind of which, as you said, just kind of leads to a building up of stuff. The other thing I wanted to touch on you said, and then I think we need to want to kind of wrap up a little bit. But you said you were talking about recognizing the emotions and the things that are going on. And I guess I like a lot of processes, I suppose once you learn to begin to recognize, I suppose we'd start with the bigger ones, right, the bigger emotions and starting to go, Okay, well, this is what's going on with me, this is what I'm actually feeling, putting words to it, naming it kind of thing. And then processing that. I guess, as you learn to do that, we probably become more sensitive, and aware of some of the more smaller or fine tuned experiences, I guess, so that the supposedly smaller things don't just sort of slip under the rug. We noticed them and are able to, as we just had processed them quickly and move on.

Yeah, the awareness is the first point and being aware of it, that if a toy tied back to the journaling, it's like I was catching myself during the day. Oh, I reacted the wrong way here. This happened, just simple awareness. And bringing that awareness to the table allows you then to go okay, well, how can I now address this in a different way? And you can get into a whole lot of detail about, like trying to get this right. But if you just start with self awareness, and again, it's a word acceptance, and journal on it, and then right questions, how can I how can I do this better than the right answer will come for you? Because I could tell you 100 different ways to process but none of them might work for you. It's about finding the process that does work for you. So an example of that was I'm like okay, well how do I get better, how do I become a calmer parent. And again, this found me through sport, I don't know if it would have found me any other way. Because I've just played golf, I mean, the the, the bar afterwards having a beer. And I'm drawn to this secondhand bookstore there in the corner, and I've looked through the books now, I wasn't even a reader at that point. But I had sort of started the growth journey. So I was curious. And I was drawn over there. And I found this book from one of the coaches here who'd been well known for getting the best out of his players when they didn't necessarily have the best list of players, but also doing things a bit differently. And when Okay, oh, I'll grab this book was called sport is life life is sport. It's on the on the bookshelf there behind me somewhere. And it just had all these messages. And I'm like, wow, so true. Like, you know, walk like an athlete. They walk athletes stands tall. The athletes not afraid to stand in their power, the athlete is more than happy to have the tough conversations. They are encouraged, but they also have these conversations where we go, okay, well, how can this be better the tough conversations, but then I didn't notice at the time, but it turns out this book was also co authored by his wife was a meditation and yoga teacher. So then it gets to this part about meditation and yoga. And I'm like, and it just grabbed me. And it talked all these stories about being better and better performance and karma. And well, okay, this is it, I would learn how to meditate. So that was 2013. And that just became such a driver as like this. And then noticing the difference. I remember again, hearing and other sports person talking about meditation. And around that time, and he said, I couldn't tell you exactly what it is. But I just know that I'm a better dad, but I do it. And that, and at that time was like, I didn't have a conscious awareness of exactly what it was. But the days that I've meditated, I was a calm dad, not 100%. But I was able to get through those days, so much better. And the days I didn't, I would be irritable, I would be snappy. And that contrast really showed me okay, just spending 10 minutes, quietly with my eyes closed, even if I didn't feel like in inverted commas, I could meditate, just sitting there in silence and allowing myself just to relax and be present helped me to get through the day.

What a fantastic help. That is, it's amazing that you're, you're sharing how for you it was it was finding you essentially kept finding helps and an input, valuable input through through sources that you were already connected to, or understood or were comfortable with. So you know, financially, you're good with money and finances, investing and all that. But, so you learn through that, but they hooked you into the self growth, and then you're comfortable with sports, and they took you into meditation. And so that could be really helpful nugget for a lot of guys, because we you know, I mean, it's still these days, I think so many of us, their whole world of meditation and inner reflection and so on is still feels kind of meh, so learning, learning it through an area or field we're comfortable with, kind of, brings it a little closer.

Yeah. And on that I had learned at later in my sporting career about visualization. So if you don't like to call it meditation that scares you, sit and visualize how your life you want your life to be, or sit and visualize how you want to be as a dad, like, just make it make it in context that you understand. And whether it's sport, or art or music or whatever it is for you. The journaling will allow it to show up for you in a way that will reach you. You don't have to worry about trying to have it sorted out. Ask better questions in your journaling. Have that self awareness around what is good and what's not. And then you're unconscious? Or find the answer. As as dads, this is the one that will that will grabbed me. And hopefully it makes sense for you to two ways you can you can validate this for yourself right now, when my wife was pregnant. I'm seeing pregnant women everywhere. Now, where are they gone? Because I don't see them anymore. But they're there but I just they're not they're not my conscious awareness. Right. So when you focus on something, your unconscious will find more of it. Now also for a lot of us maybe there's a certain car we want to drive right. So you get really clear on the car you want to drive, put it on your wall. Think about it every day and I guarantee you you will start seeing that car everywhere you go. Not because there's more of them on the road, but because your unconscious is bringing your attention to it constantly. Dr. Joe says we bring in something like 60 billion bits per second we can only process in the 10s of 1000s. So give your unconscious a clear guide on which part of those,... of that data you want to bring in and it will find it for you every time. Even now wherever you are. asked your mind to find you the color red Looking around, and the red will stick out everywhere you look. It's basic basics, but it's powerful.

Yeah, no, that's awesome. That's a great summary there. I love the way the last few points are that you've just pulled a lot of stuff together. And I appreciate that very much. And I want to wrap this up, because we're on the hour, and I but there's more than I'd love to talk with you about. So we may have to book a part to another time. But I really appreciate just your willingness to be open and vulnerable and be honest about about where you're going. That's, that's, that's where it gets really helpful for us to be able to really hear somebody else's journey on all, all sides of it and the truth of it. So thank you so much, Ian, for sharing all that.

You're welcome. Yeah, I'll be quick, because I wrapping it up. But if you're a dad, and you're or someone who cares about another dad, or like a wife, and you're looking for something to really grab onto, it's that that idea of vulnerability, and it seems scary, but allowing yourself just to accept that, that everything's not great. And that actually, that there is help out there. And things will always be better when you allow yourself that space to be helped. Yeah, it's not a weakness, it's actually a strength, and it will make you even stronger than you can possibly imagine.

And we are capable of so much more than we, we ever imagined we could so. Fantastic. All right. I want to I'm gonna lift the mood a little here and just gonna ask you a couple of fun questions. And I'm gonna let you share one more thing. And then then we'll we'll close it up. Just gonna throw a couple of questions at you that apropos of of almost nothing, but my first one actually, I'm going to say where you are. What is the most friendly animal?

each one out in the wild or just in general? Well, friend friendly

Everyone talks about Australian all the things that will kill you there.

Now they're all pretty unfriendly. Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know if I can answer that.

Like even even though like you know, the koala bear, right? If you got close to call a koala bear, and you tried to grab it. It's got claws, like talons that would just tell you like even the possums that sit out here. The bird like we've got birds swooping this time of the rain spring. Let's go for the domestic dog shall we

Yeah okay lets go there. Surely there's a friendly wild animal there.

They must be but they're also timid that they run off and you don't actually get to touch them.

Fair enough. What's your favorite meal?

Curry. Curry.

Okay, good. Yeah, who is the most famous person you've met?

Oh, i Don't know if most famous in Australia. For anyone in my generation, if you're a cricket fan, there was a guy, Alan Boarder who, when we went through a really tough times as a national team. He was the one rock that always performed. And when I worked at Fox Sports, Television Network, really early on of the journey, I got to meet him. And some people talk about like, it's better not to meet your idol. But he was the most kind, gentle, humble man that I've met. And he was so appreciative of me saying how honored I was to meet him. So yeah, great moment. And it actually made me realize that famous people are just people and I had to get working in television. I've had them crossing in the corridor all the time. I don't get overawed or overexcited or anything by celebrity, because they're just another person.

And who would you like to meet that you haven't met yet?

Well, the first name that came to my head was Jim Rohn. But then the second one was Jim Rohn is passed. But Robin Sharma is another guy in personal development that was influential and he also gave me a lot of great tips on journaling. And just his principles on leadership and taking action and getting stuff done. Or I'd love to share notes and bounce ideas off with him because he's a real inspiration. His book, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari is well worth the read. It's, it's self help through a story so it's much more subtle and an enjoyable read as well.

Okay, and we're gonna put,... in order for people to get in touch with you. We're going to put your links and connection into the show notes. Is there a Do you want to highlight in terms of people connecting with you reaching out to you?

Yeah, well, two things come to mind is if if you're at that point, and you're not, not sure where to start, because I talked about after grief, I spent six years spinning the wheel, then my, my free training is "Start the Change" and it's a lot of the things we talked about getting clear on what it is you want awareness around what's not working, and then rewriting the story. So that's, you'll find that on my website, and the notes and also my ebook, "The Grief Code Framework", which gives you some more guidance about how grief or unresolved grief might be showing up for you and your body and your behavior patterns. And that will just give you some guidance around what might be going on for you and what you can do to start making changes.

Excellent. I like that, because I think a lot of times, we're not even recognizing what's the signals that are there. So make sure all of that is available and appreciate you sharing that for sure. And they can look forward to exploring some of that. So, with all that, it's time to wrap up again. And I really appreciate everybody sharing. And again, if you have any questions for Ian, he is absolutely open to you reaching out and connecting with him. The man who wants to help and has committed so much of his life to doing that, so don't be shy. I'm also here for you. And looking forward to connecting more with other people. We've got great conversations coming up again next week. So stay tuned. Keep in touch, and we'll talk to everybody soon. Bye for now.