Shattering The Sky - Breaking Thru’ Aviation | Episode 118

All right, seasoned women!

It's about to get a little turbulent here because I am excited beyond a

measure to introduce to you my very special guest today, Lola Reid Allin.

Her legacy of lifetime experience and diverse travel locations.

Wow!

I don't know how you pack more into a life, but one way you can do it is

by packing a lot of it into a book.

For those of you that are on YouTube, you'll be able to see I'm holding up

her book, tell you a little bit more about that in a second, but I was

thrilled to be invited to be one of the people to interview Lola before

the launch of her new book, and that is taking place on September the

18th, so it's one week from the day that we are recording this interview.

The number of synchronicities, I might say, to this opportunity to interview Lola

will reveal themselves as we go along.

But what I'm so happy about today is that we can bring a different perspective to

seasoned women, serious business, and it's about the business of succeeding in

a male dominated industry, and opening up more opportunities for other women.

Welcome, Captain!

Thank you very much.

It's my pleasure to be here.

Thank you so much for inviting me.

I do not believe in reading formal bios verbatim, but All of

that will be on the show notes on podcast platforms, and we cover them

all also in the YouTube description.

So for those of you that are already rapidly taking notes for this

interview, everything that you need to know about finding Lola and finding

out where she's going to be, and I'm hoping you'll be signing books.

I'm bringing mine to Canada, by the way, in case I can meet up with you in

person, and also just the associations and organizations that she is a

part of that are all woven into what we're going to talk about today.

I feel, Lola, that I've got so much that I want to talk to you

about that I will be fearful that maybe I'll just do all the talking.

I'm going to start off by saying that I have not read your entire

book yet, but the chapters and the passages that I randomly chose

surprised me for a couple of reasons.

I really was expecting it to be a little drier and a little more technical.

And let me tell you, audience, it is anything but dry.

It is so juicy.

There were a lot of whoa, blink moments for me.

And there were also a lot of moments that were a little tender, a little

raw for me because you share so very authentically and so generously

your life experience as a woman, as a mother, as a professional, as a wife,

as a family member that it was great.

I could see myself in some of your experiences.

And because I believe so much in us sharing our wisdom to help

other women, we lift as we climb.

Before I turn it over to you, I'm going to tell you that one of my very favorite

parts of the book is your landing.

And I'd just like to read this for everyone before they go get

their own copy of the book; make sure you get to the end because:

"While searching for authenticity, I made many mistakes and hurt many people.

But finally!

I know who I am and who I want to be.

Life is a privilege.

I have chosen to fulfill with challenges, but without those opportunities to learn

and grow and find my true self, my life would be a different kind of death."

How did you get to that final paragraph of the book, Lola?

A lot of hard work.

I started off, it's a memoir.

It's, so a memoir is about me, right?

How much harder, how hard could that be?

I know me.

Memoir isn't about me.

It's about what happened to me.

How it affected me, how did I learn, and how I can give that information or

that knowledge, or the suggestion of that knowledge, or how it impacted me,

and how I can transform that into a book that someone would read and enjoy.

So when I first started, I realized pretty quickly, by the

way that I needed a lot of help.

Gotham Writers was the first place I studied, and then I switched over

to the University of Toronto and the Creative Writing Department.

But the first few comments were, we have no idea what you're talking about

this is way too technical, and someone very wisely and succinctly said, " A

memoir isn't Flight Training Manual.

We need to have a bit of it, right?

But we don't need your really step by step, play by play

of how to fly the airplane."

And so I got really confident.

I did a lot of work and I had a really good, I think, a good, finished product.

But I sent it out a bit, and of course it was rejected.

But I was hardened from that already.

And then I thought I'm going to get a developmental editor.

And I found one through the Canadian Writers Association, and she was great.

She told me two things that were absolutely fabulous.

Her name is Sarah Chauncey, and she is American, but living in British Columbia.

So I'm indebted.

First thing she said was, your book is good and it's, it shows great potential,

but we need to see a lot more of Lola and feel a lot more of what Lola's

feeling so that we can identify with her, not as a pilot, but as a woman, as a

mother, as a wife, as a business person.

And so that was really helpful.

And the other thing she told me, and she was so bang on here, she said, you're

not really writing about aviation.

Yes, it's the platform that propels your book forward.

But what you're really writing about is women's issues, and that's what

it ultimately turned out to be.

So I gave a lot more.

I actually had another developmental editor who also

said, Just give more of yourself!

And probably I went overboard and I've given lots of information about me

and how I felt and what I did with it.

And I liked what you said earlier about needing to learn more about

the mistakes I'd made before.

I made more mistakes, but I think ultimately I became a better person

and a much more settled person.

And in fact, I've been married for to the same man for 26 years.

And I, and we have a really wonderful relationship, but it was a long

journey and it was definitely worth it and I'm so grateful to everyone

that helped me along the way.

And it was Sarah also who suggested that.

I start with the chapter that is in the first bit of the book because

it bookends the fact that this is about women and women's issues.

So the first chapter talks about an older woman who has gone

through three instructors, they're all male, they can't figure out

why she can't land the airplane.

These were all great guys; and again, I hope that I've portrayed

everybody in the best light possible.

They were product of their environment and they really, truly could not understand

why a 59 year old woman, who had a wonderful husband, a beautiful home

and four grown children and a couple of grandchildren wanted anything else.

What she wanted was something that was her very own that she

had accomplished on her own.

And initially, she actually did not want to fly with me because she

also bought into it subconsciously.

I don't think she realized it, but what she said to the chief

instructor was I don't just want someone who's a pretty face.

Wasn't she just hired to be politically correct?

We ultimately became friends.

I figured out what the problem was.

It was almost a fluke.

I almost missed it too.

It really wraps it up nicely.

as a book about women's issues and the special challenges we have in a world

that's populated, not exclusively, but at least in aviation, 94 percent

of commercial pilots are male.

So we're pretty outnumbered.

Still.

Still, yes, correct, still.

And it's been that way since about 1980.

There are two exceptions to that.

About 6 percent of the world's Commercial pilots are female.

I'm saying commercial.

So there's a lot of female pilots out there.

They're in air races, going to events, they're hosting charities, poker runs.

They're doing lots of fun stuff.

There's a great network of women who are pilots, but not flying commercially.

But commercial pilots, there are two exceptions to that six percent.

One of them is in Canada, that's Porter Airlines at Billy Bishop Airport, they

have, and it varies, but generally they're 12 to 13 percent female pilots,

and their chief pilot was was female.

She's now gone on to Transport Canada, and they have assistant

chief pilots who are female.

The other exception to that six percent is India, and they have had commercial

pilots who are female since the 1960s, and they have an about the same average 12

to 13 percent, and again that fluctuates.

They, the women of India, have support and encouragement and financial support.

Lola, I can't help but think how ironic it is that it's a common expression

that women hold up half the sky.

But where the fuck are we in the sky with representation?

As you said, it's not just commercial pilot status but in addition, there

are other careers in aviation, like military pilots and there's astronauts

and charter pilots, corporate flights, FBO flights, which is, what we shared

a bit off camera earlier was that I had a brief career in aviation myself.

I got to thinking after I was reading your book and I looked at those stats

myself and I thought, what is wrong?

Why haven't we made bigger advance here?

There's a lot of talk about encouraging girls in STEM, and in many respects

there's a relationship here.

There's mechanics, there's engineering, there's design, there's avionics,

which was part of my background.

There's air traffic control.

Absolutely.

And I think it's somewhere in your book that you mentioned that there was

a certainly it seems to still exist.

We expect to see women behind the ticket counter.

Correct.

But we don't expect to see her in the cockpit.

How

How can this be right?

It's just a lingering attitude, and I think things are changing.

The younger generation, men and women, are more accommodating, more welcoming,

more used to seeing even those few women.

So the numbers of female commercial pilots has increased.

When I actually got out of aviation and I got into studying the Maya of

Mesoamerica and flying, I lived there for three years, but then after coming back

to Canada, I went back to Mesoamerica.

But there were no non stop flights from Toronto to some of the destinations.

So I would fly to Houston to Dallas Atlanta, and Miami.

And I'd always see female pilots.

Now they were all, commercial pilots, they were almost always first officers.

But that didn't surprise me, because I'm talking now from 96 onward, 1996 onward.

So that didn't surprise me.

But the fact that I always saw female pilots in the terminals or

in the aircraft, that was great.

So I was really amazed when I learned that the percentage remained the same.

And what really drew my attention to the problem was I've got it

here, a clipping that I saw.

I copied it from online: a note, written on an aircraft

napkin, and this one was WestJet.

This is not to me, this was to someone named Captain Stacy.

But this is what it looks like, and then I'll read it to you.

This is 2014.

It says to Captain forward slash WestJet: the cockpit of an

airliner is No Place for a woman.

A woman being a mother is the most honorable, not as captain.

We're short mothers, not pilots at WestJet.

P.

S.

I wish WestJet could tell me a fair lady is at the helm

so I can take another flight.

That was 2014!

I couldn't believe it.

I thought, oh my gosh, this is the kind of, I never got a note on a napkin, but

this is the kind of stuff that I put up with in the 80s and the early 90s.

So how could this still be happening?

What was different about this particular event was that she

had the support of her company.

And she also had internet.

I copied this off of her Facebook posting, so she could also reach out

to people very quickly and very easily.

It hit all the media at the time.

There was a lot of adverse reaction, so that was encouraging.

The whole thing is very shocking, but it got me very interested, and wondering

why this still could be happening.

So I reached out to a couple of friends I knew were still very involved in aviation

and they said, Oh, there are a couple Facebook pages that are invitation only.

Join them and you'll see women venting a lot about some of these, I'm

going to call them microaggressions.

Some of them aren't intentional.

So for example, they're intentional, but they're not necessarily negative.

That is, the person is not necessarily intending to be negative.

For example, at some of the northern bases, the pilots had to load the baggage.

And at some of the northern bases, you're getting people who are hunting

and fishing and the bags were huge.

They should have been outlawed.

They were massive.

So I'd lug the baggage cart over and I'd, throw the luggage into the baggage

cart and every flight, but almost some man would try and take the bag from

me, like physically try and wrestle it from me and say things like; "Oh my

God, this is way too heavy for a woman.

You shouldn't be doing this."

And they were being nice.

I want to emphasize they were being nice.

They were behaving in the way that is that's considered socially appropriate,

the way they'd been raised that women don't do that sort of thing.

But what they were also saying, not intentionally, I'm pretty

sure, but they were all nice guys, was that women shouldn't be doing

this, and you aren't capable.

And I would grab the bag back and just throw it in and then that

usually got people's attention, as it ricocheted off the metal, but,

little things like that after a while, that kind of gets to you too.

And it is still happening.

Let's put it that way.

It is still happening.

Not that specifically, but it is still happening.

Yeah.

And I'm pretty confident that people who know you and know me we're not throwing

a pity party here, or a bitch session.

Oh no!

We're just talking about what does it take to change some of these paradigms.

Enough already.

I was reading one of your chapters and so this was going back and

setting societally the mindset.

You're talking about Mr.

Cocky and Kurt and the conversation while you're inside the aircraft

doing, studying something, right?

And so you're unfortunately witness to a conversation

that they're having about you.

And not surprising, because I heard this myself, even when I was an

attendant at the desk at the FBO, "Boobs don't belong in a fucking cockpit!"

But, the other side of that was I was required to wear a skin tight

uniform and, make sure that my (Lola: Eye Candy!) nails were done.

Absolutely.

Absolutely!

And I must say, it was, I loved being in aviation.

It was such an educational part of my life.

aside from my joy today of still being able to recite the aviation alphabet

at cocktail parties after a few drinks.

But I loved the opportunity that I was standing at the forefront of how to

get out and see the rest of the world after being raised in a small, rural

community not far from where you live.

So the fact you did that, and you took that I went on, and

as you said, you've explored.

We're talking all about aviation, but I also want to say kudos to you

for your work with photography and anthropology and bringing it all

together, making one world united.

I love it!

Thank you.

I think we are changing.

For example, when I was in high school in the 70s, I wanted to take shop and

our auto mechanics, that kind of stuff.

And I went to the guidance counsellor.

I didn't see why I couldn't.

There was no physical reason for me not to be able to take it, but I was told

that shop was for boys and that I should take home ec because I would learn how

to cook and sew which would be valuable skills for me when I got married and

my husband would be so happy to have a wife who could cook and clean and sew.

My argument was that my mother and my grandmother had already

taught me how to cook and sew.

So I may not be a Michelin chef, or I wasn't sewing haute

couture, but I could do that.

He said it didn't matter, I couldn't do it.

I might have been able to protest, but , it was the beginning of

my feelings of being defeated.

Even if when I tried, he said there's no recourse, girls don't take it,

and, they, you won't be welcome.

But they are taking it today.

So there is progress.

There are girls who take shop and I'm hoping that there are

guys who take cooking and sewing.

My husband is a physician.

He didn't take typing or keyboarding when he was in high school because

he expected that he would have a secretary who would do all that.

And he does have a secretary but he also has to input his patient

information, into medical records.

It may seem like you don't need it at the time, but everything you

can learn will build on you as a person, no matter what your goal is.

And in high school, there are a few people who know what they

want to do when they grow up.

My husband, again, being one.

His father was a doctor, a gynecologist.

His uncle an ophthalmologist, and their grandfather was a general physician.

My husband at age six knew he wanted to become a doctor and he knew he

could become a doctor because he had three family members who were

role models who would encourage him.

That's a bit unusual, but it does happen.

But again, it just shows you the value of role models.

The first two Canadian pilots hired by a major commercial airline were Judy

Cameron was the first for Air Canada, and Rosella Bjornsson was the first commercial

pilot hired by a major Canadian airline.

Both of them had very strong family backgrounds.

Judy's mom was single, or divorced I guess, was very

encouraging, very supportive.

And Rosella's dad had his own airplane, and there's a really cute little picture

of her and him standing in front of the airplane when she's about five years old.

She learned to fly when she was 12 years old, and so she couldn't be licensed.

But then when she went to get her license at age 16, it was she

already knew most of the lessons.

Her dad realized that if she was going to go flying with him, it might be nice

to give her some of the basics anyway.

But the point is they had strong family backgrounds that supported them.

There was a beautiful segue, or should I say runway, to something

I wanted to talk to you about and that is being able to see yourself

in a career, as you talked about your husband's family as doctors, it was

easier for him to see himself as a doctor because he had role models.

I thank you and your colleagues that are in the various aviation for women

organizations for visibility because I think, to my mind, that's the only

way we're going to significantly increase the number in aviation

is if you can see yourself there.

Yes!

Whatever age, whatever ethnicity, whatever cultural wardrobe you wear,

we have to have visible examples so that young girls, young women

could go, "Ooh, that could be me!"

I just want to say, you had to create your own model to look up to, right?

Your family did not support you in that little girl's dream.

They were wonderful people.

They just didn't want children.

My father particularly.

And when he said that girls don't fly, he was being very negative, but he was

also being realistic in the sense of his observation was that girls don't fly.

He resented me just being there, but he also resented me deeply for

becoming a pilot that he wanted to be.

He signed up in 1939 with the Royal Canadian Air Force, and

he was not able to be a pilot.

Every boy that signed up wanted to be a pilot, but he was not able to

be a pilot because of serious ear damage from childhood ear infections.

but he did work for the military as an aircraft maintenance engineer at

various bases in Ontario, and I'm sure he must have seen female pilots,

even though he said girls don't fly.

He must have seen those female pilots, because during World War II, there

was the Air Transport Auxiliary, there was the WASPs in America, and

they were flying back and forth from Canada to America, and then over to

Britain with the military planes, taking those planes over so that the

men could use them in combat positions.

I don't know if there were any female maintenance engineers in

World War II, Rosie the Riveter.

I think there were in the factories building airplanes, maybe not maintenance

engineers in the military, but I'm sure he would have seen female pilots.

Yeah, he was a bit of a misogynist, really.

But he was created by the time period, too.

It wasn't that he stuck out.

I'm sure that people will say, oh, your dad was a wonderful man.

They did say that.

Dad's a wonderful man.

And he was a wonderful man.

But you know what?

If you shouldn't, if you don't want kids, you shouldn't have them.

And that wasn't their fault.

In 1950, there weren't many choices for for people to not have children

other than abstinence or Russian roulette with prophylactics.

Sure.

And I'm sure there was some peer pressure, a family pressure as well, right?

Yes,

Part of my life story, my journey is being a single mom as a teen, and the

pressure that was put on me; it's not right to raise a boy without a father.

The pressure there was that you're not conforming, even

though I was self sufficient, independent, and we were doing well.

Nice.

So you're right.

This isn't about a witch hunt blaming people for

not at all

It was the way life was.

It doesn't have to be like that now, at least that it be particularly in terms of.

And again, we share

some connection around domestic violence.

That one of your stories you're talking about, the police were

really essentially handcuffed from taking action to protect you.

And that was my experience.

So it's these conversations and books like yours, telling stories like you

do, that is, I believe, going to make sure that we don't revert and I hope,

accelerate the path to better behaviors.

I want people to stick around here.

There's some little surprises coming for them.

There's a lot about you publicly available.

And now when they buy your book, wow.

They're going to learn a great deal more about your personal life and what

it was like to grow up in that era that we did and establish our financial

independence and our self worth and learning about, which is the other thing

I really appreciated, you talked about learning who you are, making the mistakes

along the way, and owning the fact sometimes we made big mistakes, right?

But.

What is something we might not find out about you easily on Google?

I'm really an introvert.

I know that's probably strange, but I am introverted.

I do feel strongly about this message, so I want to do these conversations

and I wrote the book to initiate some of those conversations that we

need to talk about this and to bring out what, how women feel when we're

faced in some of these situations.

But yeah, I guess I'm an introvert.

I love being alone, which maybe isn't that surprising.

My two main careers were scuba diver and pilot, and I like

to fly alone, best of all.

So you don't do a lot of talking.

except on the radio, if you're flying in an airplane and you're not doing

any talking when you're underwater with a regulator in your mouth.

And I like being alone.

A lot.

And not to mention the trekking that you do, which I'm sure

is not with a large crowd.

No, it's not.

It's not.

The trek I've done that had the most people on it was the Inka

Trail, which was the first big trek I did, and that was in 2002.

But my favorite trek of all I thought it was going to be the trek in

the Himalayas this past November.

You have my admiration.

I'm not sure that I want to work that hard for that experience, but

also I'm thinking, wow, here we are.

We're in the sky.

We're in the rivers.

We're trekking up mountain sides, the Himalayas.

It's fantastic.

Okay, I know that you have a lot going on right now with book launches and also

we didn't talk about the other thing I appreciate in getting to know you is

that you provide a lot of educational opportunities in the communities with

presentations on your travels and you're involved in speaking in aviation

related organizations for women.

So thank you very much for doing that because that's, as seasoned

women, it's our sharing of wisdom that to me is invaluable.

Where might people find you in the next while with the book release

if they do want to get a copy in person and have you sign it?

You can find out that information on my website, which is LolaReidAllin.Com.

Also on Facebook, also on Instagram, and it's some variation of Lola Reid Allin.

I'm going to be in Toronto on September 21st at the Billy Bishop Airport.

There's an event called Girls Take Flight.

For years it's been held at the Oshawa Airport, and it's been on one day,

and there's been a flight component where girls, I think between the ages

of 8 and 18, can get in an aircraft with a licensed pilot, and the

pilot will take them for a flight.

That still happened at the beginning of this year, in April, I believe, but it's

been split into two, I guess for more visibility at the Toronto Island Airport.

So that's an all day event on September 21st.

I'm in and out of Toronto doing a variety of presentations.

I'm actually doing a presentation on the 25th in Toronto at one

of the libraries about summiting Kilimanjaro and then going on safari.

I'm back in Toronto doing Nepal and I do these presentations, just to encourage

people to even do part of the trek.

My favorite part about the Nepal trek was when we actually got to some smaller

villages and stayed a couple days.

But that was a difficult trek.

We're up to about 6, 000 meters, so about 17, 000 feet.

See where else am I?

A lot of places.

I'm in all on the Ontario region.

I'm going to be in Ottawa, in Belleville, Picton Cobourg.

Peterborough.

I'm also going to be in Denver in March 25th to the 26th, and that's in

conjunction with the Women in Aviation International Organization Convention.

I think it's their 37th annual convention.

Liz Booker of the Literary Aviatrix has arranged a booth for us,

us meaning women who are pilots and have also written a book.

Oh, this is fantastic.

Thank you for reminding me that all of this will be on your website,

because that's the best, because that'll be updated as you add notes.

Exactly.

Yeah, and I'm also inspired to talk with you about

how do we get you to Arizona?

Oh, that's awesome!

This is a fifth largest city here in the U.

S.

Is it really?

Yes, PHX is one of the largest international airports in the U.

S.

I didn't know that.

My book is also being reviewed by Jackie Boyd, who is a member of the International

99th, and she's reviewing the book in the back of the 99th International Magazine.

So yeah, that would be fun to do.

Writing this book was a challenge, it's far harder than flying.

I know it is.

When people say, I want to write a book, I've got a couple of books in me.

I think, okay you say that.

but follow through and finish it and publish it.

And then, and this is why I was so pleased to be able to,

in my small way, support you.

The next big thing is marketing it because it doesn't matter how good the

book is, if nobody knows about it, then.

Yeah, it's a

big thing.

And I've been so lucky with Book Savvy, Sharon Bialy and Camille at Book Savvy.

They're fabulous.

And I've done a lot of outreach on my own as well.

They've been super helpful.

I have this massive spreadsheet and Google Docs that Camille did,

and it's you gotta be kidding!

Otherwise, and then this week Camille sent me an email at the beginning

of the week saying, okay, this is what you're doing this week.

And I thought, wow, that's really helpful as well.

So I'm busy.

It's, they've been fabulous.

I recommend them to anybody or to any author who wants a publicist.

That is good to know.

And, supporting, as I said yesterday, I did a Instagram story that

Yes, I saw it!

Oh, did you?

That's fabulous.

It's true.

I am so excited to be out of bed before 5 a.

m.

every day because I think, Wow, I get to do this stuff, right?

And every day is continuing growth, which is is the best medicine in

my opinion to feel like you're challenging your brain, you're meeting

new friends, you're learning stuff.

And I, I feel so strongly about us leaving our legacy, Lola, to other women.

But the best way we can do that is be here present to live

and share it while we're here.

Agreed.

Not posthumously, as they say.

Okay I open the invitation to work with whomever to collaborate

to bring you to Arizona.

Thank you.

And to have subsequent encounters.

I'd be loved to update.

I suspect that there will be more publications and more

stories coming from you.

I am

working on one actually.

I'm a member of a, again, Liz Booker of the Aviatrix Book Review and Aviatrix

Book Club or Literary Aviatrix.

I had suggested to her that maybe we should get together a group of women

who want to be authors or who maybe are authors or working on a book.

And so we've each done two groups of other authors budding and

publish that works really well.

And so right now I'm working with two published authors, one in America who

is a a commercial glider instructor, and one in Australia, who is a private

pilot and she and her husband both have airplanes, which is very cool.

And when it started, I was finishing my book and they got to read the first six or

seven chapters and then it went to press.

And so I said to them I've got these stories, they're right now, they're just

individual vignettes about my experiences living in the homes with the Maya and

what it was like, what I learned, and what I liked, and what I didn't like,

and how that works out ethnographically.

And They said, sure, yeah, let's see, what it's like.

And they're really enjoying it.

So it's great.

I'm really happy.

I've got like about 35, 000 words already, mostly because I did a lot of journaling.

If I'm there studying, I'm going to be taking notes.

And I have a lot of notes and I don't want you to think that

I just am copying my journal.

That would be probably boring.

So I read a couple pages and I think, okay, how can I translate

that into something that's going to be a fun read and yet informative

and enlightening about the culture of that particular Maya group.

And there's some funny stories in it as well.

Oh, don't discount the journal, either, because I think that's such

a unique and personal approach.

I remember one of my favorite all time books, and we're running way

over time now but this is so fun

it is fun!

is a book called, These is My Words, and I'm putting the accent on

there, but it's about a woman in the United States in the wagon trains,

pioneering across the country and her diary of what happened every day.

It was just I think I forgot to eat and sleep until I finished it.

These are my words.

I haven't heard of it.

It just off the top of my head, reminds me of Susanna

Moody's Roughing It in the Bush.

So Susanna Moody lived here in Belleville, and she and her husband

were early settlers in this area.

I think in the first half of the 19th century it's pretty amazing,

but it can be a little dry.

I guess a lot of the early writing was a little dry.

That's my own personal opinion.

So my, I'm speaking more about my journal.

Yes, parts of it are funny for sure, but there were little anecdotes that

You know, I'm building on in the story.

So

marvelous.

I'm going to put a call out to everybody in the audience.

If anybody knows the full title and the author's name of These Is My Words

or Them Is My Words which I bought in a little gift shop at a ghost

gold mine here in Arizona years ago.

We're going to wrap here so you can go and be with the public who's waiting for you,

but for those continuing on this topic, a couple of weeks ago, I interviewed

another author with a book launching called How to Write and Sell a Seasoned

Romance, and her name is Stella Fosse.

It's all about a movement of us women of a certain age seasoned women who

are now writing erotica and romances.

Again, going back to this, so you can see yourself in the story.

Not Everybody is the Young Perfect Hallmark couple, right?

Exactly.

Actually, I started listening to that podcast earlier today.

Oh.

I love it.

I love it.

And it's interesting too, because I know it's one of those things.

That's why I put a few mild not intercourse, but sexual sections in my

book because every generation thinks they invented sex, which is, it's true, right?

Yes, how we can live with our own stories.

Okay, Lola, please pop in on social media and let us know how everything is going.

We support you, we celebrate you, and I am delighted to have met you and I certainly

hope that we have a an opportunity face to face, even if it's in an airport someday.

I would love it.

Well, Let's work on that and a few signings or readings

or presentations, whatever.

That'd be great.

Book clubs.

Absolutely.

You count on me.

We'll talk about that.

Thank you so much.

All right.

And now everybody remember before Lola leaves, her book is available

now for pre sale, but there it is.

And it's beautiful.

The cover is beautiful and her contact information, so you can

follow her will be in the notes.

Support her, support other women of a certain age, seasoned women because we're

out there doing seriously good stuff.

I guess so!

Thank you so much, Isabel.

It's been a real pleasure.

All righty, bye.

Bye.

Take care.