Closing High-Value Sales: A 5-Step Framework with Nikki Rausch

Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of The Marketing, Media & Money. I'm so excited to have you here to really talk about a topic that I get asked about a life which is sale. So if you struggle with closing the sale, don't worry. You're not alone. Today, we're going to focus on the sales conversation itself, the what to say and when to say it, which are so important, right? Let me tell you a little bit about our guest, Nikki Roush. Is the CEO of sale Raven, an organization dedicated to authentic selling. Nikki has a unique ability to transform the misunderstood process of selling. With 25 plus years of experience selling to such prestigious organizations such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Hewlett Packard and NASA Nikki shattered sales records in many industries, multiple top producer awards along the way. Today, entrepreneurs and small business owners from a wide range of disciplines hire Nikki, show them how to sell successfully and authentically without both being pushy or salesy. So Nikki, thank you so much for being here with me.

Thanks for having me. Thanks, Patty. I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

I am too. I always love when we get to talk about sales. I think it is something people love to talk about but you're right, they always get caught up on, well, what should I say and how should I say it? So I think this is really an important conversation. So I have to say that I've heard you say that the sales process is more than just a funnel. It's a staircase, it's a no swings, no slime, no stress, five step approach to building your business. Now I have to tell you what a way to start the show diving right into that, but let's kind of talk about that. And I know you have a book called that too, which we'll get. But really, let's kind of talk about that five step approach. So five steps, who do tell us what each one of the steps are, and then maybe introduce us to the concept of each one.

Yeah, so the selling staircase is my signature framework for a sales conversation. Step one is the introduction and the idea there is to make a powerful first impression and think about, how are you coming across? Because people are making judgments about you, whether you hope they are or hope they are, but they are. So what can you do to set yourself up to make a powerful first impression? That's step one. Step two is create curiosity. This, by the way, is the most misstep in the selling process. Most people, when you talk about sales with them, or you're, you know, getting into what's going on with their business when they're struggling to have more sales conversations. And I ask them, Do you know how to create curiosity when you're talking about your product or your service or your business, even they get this look on their face like, what now? What do I have for great curiosity? But if you don't create curiosity with people, oftentimes they don't even know how to have a further conversation with you or what's hostile for them because they don't know what you know yet. So you've got to pique their curiosity. When you create curiosity, what usually happens is people who are interested parties to respective clients will start to give buying signals. Now, buying signals are verbal and non verbal cues that people give to indicate their interest. Your job is to act on the buying signal. When you get a buying signal, after you've created curiosity, you're going to move them to step three, which is the discovery. Now I call it discovery because I want my clients to be thinking about is your job to discover what's going on for this person? Do they have a problem? Do they have a need? And do I have a solution that can help them meet that need solve that problem. You can call it your consultation process, like, I don't care what you call it, but what I care what you do here is that you ask really smart questions, questions that uncover for you to identify. Am I talking to an ideal client, but also questions that plant seeds in the mind of the person you're having the conversation with to be like, Oh, Patty's asking me such smart questions. I need to work with Patty because she knows things I want to know, or she can help me do the things that I'm trying to do. Once you've done a great discovery call with somebody, you now usually have an indication of what is the right next step for them. So then we're going to move them to step four, which is the proposal. This is what I where I think the selling actually is happening. This is when you're laying out your offer, and you're laying it out based on the information that you've gathered in the discovery process. So you should be speaking right to the heart of the matter, right to the heart of what is most important to this person, and your offer should align with that. And then step five goes very closely with step four. After you've laid out your offer, you have to issue a close language, so step five is close. Now this doesn't always mean that you're going to like close the sale, but you're going to attempt to close the sale, so making sure that you get the words out of your mouth. This is the. Get most messed up in the selling process oftentimes, when people feel like people aren't making a decision, I'm, you know, I'm talking to these, you know, great prospects. I've got a solution for them, and they seem really interested, but then they go away and they ghost me. Chances are you didn't close on that call, and so you didn't help them make a decision you didn't make it easy for them to hire you. So those are the five steps. I teach it as a staircase, because most people understand that you ascend a staircase one step at a time. The objective is not to meet somebody and immediately close them, right? You've got to follow the steps. And when you follow the steps, the conversation gets easier. It's easier for the prospect. It's easier for you if you know what step you're on, so you know what to do or say next. So the idea is to make this process seamless, easy and conversational.

When you we have a framework, and you really understand a framework and what each one of those steps is supposed to do. It's a lot easier to do it and be able to do it in a single conversation, right? Because you're not all over the place. And I find that a lot of times, because people are afraid of the clothes, that they'll just do all kinds of other things to avoid getting to that. And so what happens is, where they had these clear five steps that would have taken them up the staircase to get to the close. Sometimes they don't even remember the person on the other side, because you now ask them all kinds of other stuff that they didn't have anything so clarity, of course, so important. But going back, I wanted you to tell us the step first, but going back to them, we're just going to talk about the introduction, which is very, very important, right? You know. But how does it transform the sales process into a series of manageable steps? Because it seems like that's where you're really going to start. Like you said, the second step, Curiosity is the misguided one than this matched one or whichever one. What did you say no? Smith, no. Smith,

Yes, I knew there was, yeah, right.

But the opportunity to be able to do the intro, right though, kind of helps you to start that whole series of manageable steps. So how does it set it up? It's like the setup, right? You know, it just sets everything up, right there

Yeah, well, now creating a powerful first impression can happen in a lot of different ways. It could happen because somebody saw something you posted online. It could happen because they heard you on a podcast. It could happen because they looked at your website, or it could happen because they met you at an event. So when I'm talking about making a first impression because they say, within the first two minutes of meeting you, people have already made over 10 judgments. Actually, they say in the first 10 seconds they can make up to 1010, judgments. So they've, they've decided all these things about you, including, are you trustworthy? Are you credible? And if you're not doing something to set yourself up in those first two minutes to establish your your credibility, that that know like and trust factor. I know you talk about this on your podcast, that know like and trust factor, people will often like, even continue the conversation with you. They'll be looking to go like, who else can I talk to her? Who else can I find online that does this, or who others you know? What other Google Search should I be putting in? So what is happening when people first land on your website? What's happening when people see your social media posts? Are they engaging in some way to them? Are you planting seeds? Are you, you know, spurring conversation, and when somebody's meeting you for the first time, how are you presenting yourself? Are you coming across friendly and engaging? Are you coming across the little standoffish, are you being really timid, all of these things they're making judgments about. So once you have awareness about the fact they're making judgments, even though, I think now, in our current kind of society and day and age, people are like, I'm an advanced human. I don't judge people, which I think, congratulations, like you are an advanced human. Everybody else is judging you just so you know, so let's, let's approach it as if people are making judgments. So what can you do to set yourself up? Here's one example. When you're meeting somebody for the first time, one of the missed ways to make a powerful first impression is to introduce yourself, actually, say your name, say Hi, I'm Nikki. It's nice to meet you. Now, even if you're wearing a name badge, or even if you know they're like, well, it says right in the corner of my screen what my name is. Now, if you have a really easy name to pronounce, for a really common name, like Nikki, like, maybe it's not a big deal. But if you have a name that's hard for people to say, they're in their head going like, should I say it out loud? Should I call them by their name? Because what if I say it wrong then, well, I will they think I'm stupid. Will they be annoyed, like they're going to make judgments about me if I say their name wrong? So make it as easy as possible for being to be in conversation with you and introduce yourself, and it shouldn't. Be awkward. And when you do that, you already stir a conversation. Because when you introduce yourself, what normally happens people introduce themselves back to you,

Really important. So you go with those. A lot of times when someone introduces themselves, you've just been waiting for that, right, you know, because now you want to have that conversation. And you're right. Sometimes when it's about a name, it is really important. Now, obviously you and I have very common names, right? You know, yeah, a lot of times I have met somebody and, you know, I can see their name tag has something on it. And you're right. We are thinking that, Oh, I didn't want to see anything because their name is wrong, right? So I do think that is a really, really good one. But now let's go on to the curiosity. And I really, really like this one, right? And so what would you say are some of the ways that sales professionals, right? Entrepreneurs, thought leaders, how can we effectively pique a prospect's interest during these initial stages, right? You know, because this is the one that gets, you know, missed a lot, like, really here. This is where hope everybody's writing down and now write her down, or here, right? You know, how do we effectively pique their interest?

There's really two ways to create curiosity. One way is, by the way you respond to somebody's question. The second way is to ask smart questions that lets them go like, Oh, let's talk more about that. So let's talk about answering questions, because this is actually one of the easiest ways to start a conversation. Now, remember, if you're meeting somebody for the first time, they don't know what you know. They have no idea about your experience or about your business, really, even even if they've been on your website, even if they've attended a training that you've been at, they may or may not really even remember and or they didn't catch that part. So can you pique somebody's curiosity, and can you help kind of direct the conversation in a way that helps you identify quickly? Am I talking to a prospective client, or am I just talking to somebody that it'll be nice that we spend a few minutes chatting, right? We want to identify quickly we're talking to a prospective client. So when I say, how do you answer questions, and just to like, back this up a little bit, because I have to comment on this, because it's very kind of the thing that people often helps them remember to create curiosity is I teach creating curiosity as the difference between how you call a dog and how you call it cat. And I know that sounds a little wacky, but stick with me for just a second here.

We're right, not everything.

We're okay, good, okay, good. So if you think about when you want to get a dog's attention, you change a little bit of your demeanor, your voice and the way you come across, right? If you want to get a dog's attention, really, all you have to do is be like, Come here, boy, come here. Right? Like, excited and upbeat and super, like, excited, and dogs don't even know what's going to happen, and they're so like, I'm in. I'm so right there with you. Maybe I'm getting a treat, or maybe we're going for a walk. Who knows what I'm in? And unfortunately, when people are really excited and they show up in business conversations, or they show up to meet somebody for the first time, we have what I call a little bit of dog calling energy, because we're like, who I know about this person? They'd be an ideal, you know, client for me, and I'm so excited to talk about what I do and tell them all the ways that I can help them. But you come off with this dog calling energy. And people push away from that. I go, Oh, too much. Too strong, too fast. So the Yeah, the flip side of this is, think about how you call a cat. When you want to call a cat, you definitely can't call it like you call a dog. But you hear people say they're like, here, Ginny, gin Here, kitty, kitty, right? And the thing about cats is sometimes they won't come to that. They'll just give you a look like, what like? I'm not even sure yet if I want to be in this conversation. So when I think about creating curiosity in the way that you answer questions, I train my clients to think about, can you create what I call a Here, kitty, kitty response that lets the other person go, Oh, what is that? Tell me more about that, or let's talk about that, right? So, super easy way just to get this started, and I'll also say creating curiosity is like building a muscle. It takes practice. You got to work it, okay? And then as as you do it more and more, it gets easier and easier to do. But if somebody were to come up to you right now and say, Oh, hey, how are you? What's what's new with you? And if you have a kind of a throwaway line, like, Oh, not much, how are you? Or, Oh, I'm good. You know, just living the dream that doesn't actually pique anybody's curiosity, does it open the door for them to talk about something that, again, we're trying to identify? Are we talking to a prospective client or. Not so if somebody came up to me right now and said, Hey, how are you, Nikki, what's new with you? I might say something like, Oh, I'm fantastic. I'm I'm working on re recording all of my core training content. That's all my answer needs to be. Now I could then say, and how are you now, they might go your core training content. What does that mean? Nikki, like, what? What do you train on? Or what is like? Why are you doing that? Now it like opens the door. They've asked a question. They've shown a little interest. So now I have the ability to give you, know, a short answer to see if that continues to be interesting to them. And I can tell you because I've been teaching this now for 10 plus years, that when you start to create curiosity, you will have more business conversations with people who you didn't even know yet. They could be a prospective client. So when I teach this, I say, Come up with your hair kitty kitty response for the week and say it to everybody who asks you a question, how are you what's new with you? You know, how's your day going? Have a response that that allows the other person to decide whether or not they're interested and they want to further that conversation, because you may be talking to a prospective client that you didn't even know about and or you may be talking to somebody who could open a door for you that you could never open on your own. When they go, Oh, you teach sales. Oh, my gosh. My sister in law, she just started her company, and she needs some help with sales, right? They could be that, or it could be like, Oh, I didn't know that you did training content, Nikki, I would love to take a course on sales right now I know I'm talking to a perfect client. Now if I do it, if I give my hair kitty response, and the person goes, Oh, yeah, so Did you see what the temperature is supposed to be today? And they totally changed the subject. Like, go with them. Stay in the conversation. Don't stop them and be like, Hey, I just gave you my hair kitty kitty response. You're supposed to ask me a question, because the thing about sales and the thing about scripts, right, is that people don't respond like they're supposed to, because they don't know about the script. So stay, keep the conversation going. But oftentimes, when you do this here, kitty cater response, people go, what's that? Tell me more about that.

They tell me more is like, so good. One of the things that I didn't even know about that, Hey kitty kitty. Even know about the Hey kitty kitty, but I know that for me, whenever people ask me little question, a lot of times, anything fun, probably ask 1/3 girl, I like to say is, oh, I'm doing great. I'm happily through my goal of of booking myself on 25 podcast, right, you know, or something like that, right, you know. Or that's perfect, you know. Or I'll say something like that, and then they'll be like, Oh well, you know, they'll start that. And then it's always really nice, because my next response to that, when I ask that question, is, and, you know, the reason why I come to these best stuff, I never know where I want somebody to be great. So now they know that I'm the giver as well. And I just find that that one really has worked for me really well. It also works when you're having because I know we should touch on this, but you know how sometimes people get on coffee calls, right? You know, like, part of an organization or whatever, and, you know, get to know you whatever you want to call them, and you're on them, and then you get to the end. I can just spend like, 30 minutes to them, and then you get to the end, and they'll say, So Patty, like, you know, how can I serve you? Like, I want to, like, what can I do? Or I'll say that to them, and they'll be like, Oh, I don't know this conversation. And they don't have an app, they like, they don't even know. Like, I'm sitting here telling you that I want to serve you in some way, and they won't even know. And I know, we always tell our people, like you like to be on podcast. And really the easiest thing to say is, you know, Oh, I'd love introduction to a podcast coach, right? You're not saying, Can you get me booked on the podcast? You're saying you want to somebody who has a podcast. I think that people also should be prepared for that question, right? You know? So that's why I like the podcast. No matter where I am, I can always tweak that, that answer in some way, shape or form, right? You know? So I love that. Let's move on to a discovery because I think this one is very good. But what are some you mentioned this and I was really waiting to get here, right? So what would you say? And you said that discovery phrase is crucial for understanding the client's need, right? So what are some questions or techniques that you recommend for the state?

So the first and foremost thing at the start of a consultation call or discovery call is to pre frame what's going to happen in the call. This sets you up to create safety between you and the prospective client. And I know that might sound a little like, What do you mean safety? Like? Why do I need to create safety? You need to create safety because this person who has risked getting on a call with you or having this part of a conversation with you in order for them to feel at ease and to be really present in the conversation. They need to feel safe. They need to know this isn't like, I'm here to hard sell you. I'm here to, like, clean out all the things you've done wrong. You know, it's so you've got to state, kind of the purpose of the call. The the way that I teach pre frame is, I'm going to just kind of give you an example off the top of my head. If you and I were to get on a call, I would say, Patty, I'm so excited to chat with you. Thank you so much for taking this time to meet today. We're scheduled to chat for about 30 minutes. Does that still work in your schedule? Like I'm going to check to make sure that you're not under a time constraint and and also, I'm setting the stage that we're only talking for a certain amount of time. So this is not a like Nikki's brain session. You know, get a free coaching call, right? So I'm going to check about the time make sure that that works for you, so it gives us some I always say it's like putting the bumpers up when you're bowling, like we're just putting some bumpers up. Keep keeping the boundaries. And then I would say, Now, in order to make this time meaningful and productive for you, he said, Okay, I start with a couple quick questions, because this is me asking permission to lead the meeting. If you get on Discovery calls and you let your client or prospect lead the meeting, they don't know where they're supposed to go. They don't know what the outcome is supposed to be. So they can derail it unintentionally by doing something like so I wanted to talk to you about sales, but I wanted to tell you the story about my uncle when I was five, and now you're in story, right? Like, time suck story, and you get to the end of the 30 minutes, and they are still telling the story. You haven't even gotten a chance to talk about what's going on for them, what prompted them to have this meeting. Like, we got to take the lead and the conversation, but you want to do it in a really kind respectful way, which is why I say ask permission and position it as you asking the questions to make it meaningful and productive for their benefit, not for you. So I don't say now, in order for me to decide whether or not I want to take you on as client, I need to ask you questions. Because people be like, Go kick rocks. Lady like, I could go hire a million sales coaches. Why would I work with you? So it's, it's showing respect. So set it up pre frame. That's the first thing. And then you're going to work into your questions. Now, with questions, you have your standard list of questions. This is one of those places where I say, in sales, don't wing it. Don't be like, I'll just what ask, whatever comes to mind. It's like, no, have a set list of questions. You don't have to ask every question that's on your set list. But I always quote the Lewis Carroll quote, If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there. In sales, you need to know where you're going, and those questions should lead people to the path of you, moving then to the proposal part of the conversation. So your questions should elicit the information to find out, do they have a problem? Do they have a need? Do I have a solution? And your questions should plant seeds about your expertise, what's possible for them, and create that like pique that curiosity continue to pique that curiosity. So specific questions. Here's one that I say most people are afraid to ask, but yet it should not be missed in a sales conversation is, what's your budget, or what are you planning to invest, or what are you looking to invest when you're thinking about hiring a marketing person or a sales coach or and people shy away from that question because they were like, well, Nikki, I don't have to ask that question, because nobody ever has an answer. It's like, okay, but then I can give you a way to get the answer, but we've got to, we've got to prime it with the question, because the one thing you don't want to do is spend a bunch of time, especially if you're somebody who has to prepare custom quotes for people, preparing some custom quote for somebody on something you send it over. You never asked about their budget. You sent a quote for 20,000 they were thinking they were going to pay 1000 and now we've alienated this client, and we have no idea like it's so hard to earn back any time or effort with them to earn back that business, because you lost it, because you never asked about the budget in the beginning. So budget is a key question to ask. There's a few others that I recommend, but I want to speak to like those questions that play seeds and create curiosity. And the way that I teach this is, think of some of those things that make you really unique, either your product or your service or just you the business, if you're the consultant, what are the things that people are often like, my gosh, Patty, you are so good at this. How can you take the this, whatever it is, and put it into a question? So one of mine, we this won't be a surprise, I don't think to anybody listening, but one of the questions that I ask in a discovery call is, do you know how to create curiosity when you're talking about product or service that already plants the seed? Oh, I don't know how to create curiosity. Nikki's asking me this question because she probably can help me with that.

No, that's really good. People are with the kitty and the diamonds. They're gonna they're like, Nope, I'm totally need to know how they got robbed. So mature, right? In a nice, yeah, who can't relate to animal kind of a way, right? Even though I love it. So now you're at four, which is really talking about the proposal, right? Like now you're going to do that, what strategy would you suggest that would ensure that it resonates with the client and addresses their specific needs? Now I know the obvious answer there, because I asked her the question, but Right? I know that's probably the obvious question or answer, but what are some strategies? Because I think that, you know, there's strategy and then there's tactics, right? You know, and so, so I'm five people, yes, you know, got to get the strategy first, then you can get to do it.

Yeah. Okay, so strategy is, you want to speak right to the heart of what they have they have commented on in their questions. So this is, is crucial in a sales conversation to be taking notes, writing down keywords and phrases that they use, not words that you think they should use, or well, what they're talking about means, actually this, right? And and this can be a total rapport breaker if you try to change somebody's words, because words matter. Words actually paint pictures in the mind of the person who uses that word. And if you choose a different word, because that's the industry lingo, or that's what you call it, just like how I said earlier, like I teach it as discovery, but I don't care what you call it. If you call it consultation, if you call it a get to know each other. Call that's what I'm gonna call it when I am laying out my offer to you as to the benefits of this offer and how it's gonna serve you. So use their words, because it's like the iceberg, right? Like what you see above the water is only, like 10 20% of what's below the water. Those words mean things to people, and it paints pictures in their mind. It invokes, you know, memories. It invokes that, like what I want out of life. So we got to use their keywords when we're delivering back the offer. I believe that you should be asking permission before you launched into your offer. So when I've asked the questions, I've got an idea that, you know, yes, this is an ideal client. I don't just start pitching. I ask permission before I pitch. So I would say, you know, based on what you've shared, I already have five ideas of things that we could work on together and the ways to do that. Would you be interested in, kind of talking about that now and then I wait, and I get a yes from them, because who doesn't want to know what the five ideas are, and how does that work? Right? So then my five ideas are going to relate back to their keywords, and my offer, the way that I'm laying it out, is going to speak right to that. So you know, you're an ideal client for the VIP program, and in that program, we would be sure to come up with your Here kitty kitty responses. So that you could test those out. We would make sure that, you know, like whatever their key phrases and words are, I'm going to lay my offer out to that, and then I'm going to follow right up with the clothes. So as soon as I lay out the offer, I'm going to make sure I bring in step five close has to go right next to like they're essentially connected. So I lay out the offer, and then I say, is that something you'd like to go ahead and get signed up for? Then I zip it and I wait until they respond.

Well, that was because at this point where you may get whatever objections are holding back the deep price could be, yeah, God knows what. Right, you know, although it probably priced a lot, yeah, right. But whatever that case may be, but I do agree that, like you said, already spoke about budget at Farm Maya question. Well, if you've spoken about that, you already know. So she already been passed the price objection, because you've already dealt with that earlier right budget question. But they are common. It is a common hurdle in sales. What are some responses or techniques you use to overcome these objections? There were people said, I can't afford it. I can't afford it right now. Now is not the time. I actually one time early on in my business, before I was better at closing again, somebody saved me one time that they needed to pray about it, like I didn't know how to handle that, because I was like, Oh, I literally did not know what to say, chewed out. And it's kind of caught off guard. And I do remember that I asked my mentor at the time, and they actually told me that. Now I don't think I ever could have done this, so it was just not me. But I did kind of laugh at it though he said I would have actually just said, Okay, why don't we pray? What? I wouldn't have pulled that off for me that, you know, that was like. Years ago, but really we always do have these common objections. So what are some effective responses or techniques you use to overcome some of those objections, and specifically the pricing one,

Okay, when you have an objection you're going to deal with called a conditional close. So a conditional close is essentially like, if we could overcome this objection, would you then be interested in moving forward? Now you're going to tweak the language and make it specific. So if somebody said, you know, I'm I'm just not really sure that I can afford this right now, I would say, if I could offer you some ways to make this more affordable, would you then want to move forward and work together? So I gotta check if that's the case, because sometimes people will voice an objection, but that's not the correction. So we gotta check to see, is this the real objection? Because if we don't know what the real objection is, we can't overcome it. So we have to check to see, is this a real objection. And then if they say yes, that, you know, yeah. So, you know, I actually do want to work with you, Nikki, but it really is an issue of money. So now I'm going to say, well, you know, if I was able to offer you a payment plan, would that make it more feasible for you? Or if we were to offer you some kind of a prepay thing, or if we were able to start with a lower price offer. Like you can have different offers, just give them one and see, right? So for me, it would be if I was able to offer you a payment plan, would that make it more feasible for you? And if they say yes, then I'm going to talk about payment plan. But if they say no, Nikki, it doesn't really matter what you charge at this point. I just don't have the budget for it, I just can't swing it. Then, in my perspective, they're not an ideal client. They're not ready to move forward. So I would say, is this something you want to stay in touch about? And or please know that when you are welcome, or when you are ready, when you do have the finances to do this, it would be my honor to work with you, so know that you're welcome to come back to me.

That is beautiful, right? It's so beautiful because I think sometimes people are embarrassed about that, and then you'll hear I've had clients say this to me, or saying, you know, Patty, I said this to people, and then I find out that they go and hire somebody else. Well, I said, well, because they may have been embarrassed, and so it's easier for me to hire somebody else, so you need to make it easy for them to come back to you when they are ready.

Absolutely. 100% 100% so if, if they know that the door is open and that you're not judging and you're not going to be pushy and aggressive about it, like I one time when I was in the position of, you know, buying something, somebody laid it out for me, and it just wasn't the right fit. They were offended, and they said, and I said, you know, this just doesn't really feel like the right fit for me right now, so I'm gonna decline continuing the conversation. And she was like, what really well, good luck. And why not now? Turns out, couple months later, I actually did need what it was that she was offering. But do you think I went back and gave her my business? Heck no, I didn't. No way would I go back to somebody who treated me like that when, at the time, it wasn't the right fit. Now, had she been respectful and honored that I was, you know, trying to keep the rapport intact. I was being kind and I was being honest, and that wasn't good enough. Like, no, she's never going to get my business.

That's crazy, right? Really? Yeah, so I'd heard you talk about the concept of anchoring, right? I've heard you talk about that. So could you provide some examples of how you use it when you're presenting those packages client.

So if you're presenting more than one package, or more than one option as to ways to hire, you, first and foremost, never present more than three. If you present more than three, you'll have a confused client, and the confused prospect does not buy so only up to three options, and then what you're going to do is, when you lay out the three options, you're going to start with the most expensive option, that's your anchor. You're going to start with the highest price, and then you're going to work your way down. And here's anchoring is like setting a price and then working from it. Now you can anchor a low price, and that can get you into big trouble. So you want to actually anchor the higher price and then work your way down, because when you do that a lot of times, so like, actually, let me give you language, and then I'll, I'll explain what I'm doing here. So let's say that I say to you, you know, Patty, you'd be an ideal candidate for one of my VIP programs. And let's say you say, Oh, I'm interested in that. Nikki, tell me more. And what's the price for your VIP programs? So I'm going to say the VIP programs range between five and $10,000 now at the $10,000 range, you know our package, here's all the things that you get related back to the things you said you wanted. In the middle tier, you get this, this and this, and then if. You're looking to just like get started, you would get the VIP day, and that's the $5,000 offer. Now I'm going to follow up with a close and I'm going to say now, based on those three options, Patty which is the best fit for you right now, then I'm going to wait and I'm going to let you respond before I talk again. Now, what happens when you anchor and you start at the top and you work your way down, is that you make it actually easier in the mind of the buyer to pick the option as the best fit for them. And this has to do with kind of human nature. We don't like to give things up that we know we need. Now, flip side of this, we don't like to pay more to get more. So if you start at the bottom and explain your least expensive option and then try to work your way up, you're essentially saying to somebody, you got to pay more to get more. But if you start at the top, you are essentially saying to them, if you're willing to give up all these things, you can pay less. It's a very different mindset for somebody, and it actually helps them make a better decision. So I often encourage my clients to come up with an anchor offer. So if, if you know that the thing that you most want to sell, let's say it's your top tier, like your you know, diamond level VIP, call it whatever you want, then I actually suggest that you come up with an offer that sits above it. That's your anchor, the higher price, the full meal deal. Because a lot of times people will go, well, maybe I don't need the like. I don't need all the things, but that middle tier is looking pretty dang good, because who wants to start with the basic model? I don't want the basic. I'm not basic. I'm gonna go with the middle tier. So whatever it is that you want to sell, that should be your middle tier, and you should have an anchor that sits above it. And I work with my all the time from my anchor first.

A lot of times when you're on a website and you're going and looking, you get the pricing button, right? You see the pricing, and you see this, like, okay? And it'll say, you know, here's this, here's our most popular option, right? You know? And then here's the premium elite, or whatever word they want to use. I don't know what this says about me. I never look at the most popular one, because for me, I don't ever want to be the one that everybody else. It's just not my nature who I am. So I never like and I always feel like, okay, that's the one that really is what they're selling, right? That's why it's more popular. Yeah, one lesson, that's very one, that money is really the issue, right? You know, money's the issue. And then there are people like me, I think then there are people like me who want to be the most popular, who always will want like, I don't think nine out of 10 times. I know everybody who's hearing like, oh, wow, I want to have a conversation. Nine out of 10 times, literally, like, 9.7 out of 10 times. I always the only time it doesn't need to I don't is because there's something in that premium that, okay, it's like, there's something in that premium package that I actually don't want, like, I don't want and I don't want to pay for something I'm not going to use, right? You know? So that is also yeah thing. And then I will, literally, then I always have the conversation, this is what I love about a three because, you know, so let's just say that happened and I said, Well, I really love the really love that, versus one thing in there that, really, I'm just never going to do that, something I'm even interested in. But, you know, is there a way that? Because if you have those three that just opens the door to customize it in a way, right? You know? So somebody said, Oh, well, you want back off it. I don't want this thing. You know, is there something else that is something that you do want? And maybe they might say, Oh, I don't know. And so really wanted to close on them. I mean, really, I'm going to let you clothe me right now and say, but wouldn't just say, Well, how about if, you know, you could do this. So I've had people say to me, well, Patty, why would we do that? And I just do an additional, you know, you know, 90 minute call or whatever. I mean, I'll be like, great. Yeah, then that does it, because I'm not going to buy something if I know that, I'm not going to use it. But I always do want the elite. So if somebody else switch out one day or something like, I mean, it's a easy, easy yes, for me, and not everybody is me, so we're not happening. And you are doing that, and you're doing an anchor offer, if there is something in there, and people just say, Well, you know what I kind of really do like that one and price hits and blah, blah, blah, but I don't like this one thing. Like, how do you like? Kind of give us some example,

Yeah. So I'm going to say this is my all time favorite quote. And I do think, as a business owner, it's important to run your business this way, and this is what I teach around sales it always goes back to my all time favorite quote, The Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape. The more flexibility that you can show in a sales conversation, or in any conversation, the more influence you have. The most flexible person typically has the most influence. So if you want to earn somebody's business, and they say to you, I really like this Elite Package, but I know for certain, like, I'm not somebody who takes courses, and I notice you've got these courses in there and and then now again, depending on your business, and if you have the ability to make this decision, which I think you and I do patty and our businesses, right? We're the CEOs of our business. So in this particular case, I might say, well, what would be more valuable for you? And so I'm going to ask the question, I'm not going to make the assumption right, of what you value. So what would be more valuable for you? Stop, wait, let Patty decide. And if Patty says I like more one on one time, then I could say, Great, I'll actually take out the course, and here's what I'll do instead. Now, is that something you'd like to move forward with? I'm gonna I'm gonna give you the answer, and then I'm gonna follow up the close again. Because if that's all it takes to earn Patty's business, heck yeah, we're gonna sign you up. We're gonna make this work for you. Now, there are times where maybe you can't pull something out, or, you know, the client asks for something that's totally out of whack, right? And they're like, I want private time with you, not this, you know, $10 throwaway thing. And you're like, Well, my time is worth more than, you know, a $10 throwaway thing or whatever that thing is, right. So it's okay to say to somebody, I totally appreciate what you're saying, and thank you so much. I'm actually not able to change the package. It is what it is, and yet, I know that you're still going to get huge value out of the work that we're going to do together. So is this something you'd like to move forward with? I'm still going to try to close, even if the answer is, like, I can't change it, because, you know, depending on, like, I work with certain sales reps where they don't have the flexibility of making any changes, because they work for somebody else, right? So it's okay to still say, like, I appreciate you asking. That isn't something that we can make a change on. Is this something you ever ask them? And sometimes it just doesn't do our right

Isn't something else or no, you would just let them say that one thing. Yeah,

Yeah, you absolutely could. You could say, is there something else I could do, or is there another way that we could add value to your package, kind of with the package as it is, right, like, check to see. Because now here's what I will say, when you're going to do something like that, you might actually benefit from giving them what I call a menu. And the reason you give people a menu is because you make it easier for their brain to make a decision. So if you don't want to leave it just open ended and have them come up with some crazy off the wall like, well, I want two VIP days and only pay for a woman, right? Like, that's not going to work. So when I would give a menu, I might say, So Patty, is there a way that we can make the VIP day work for you and feel really valuable, for instance, if I was able to, and now I'm going to say A, B, C, or something else. I'm going to give you a couple options. I could give you one or two options, and then I can say or something else, and I say it like it's a question, because I'm trying to trigger your brain to say, I want this. Because if I don't know what it is that you really want, it's super hard to earn your business, and you might not even know what it is that you want yet, but our brains are wired to answer questions, and when we make it easy for our brain to answer a question, it will like, it's like you almost. There's actually a term for it where, and I can't think of it off the top of my head, but there's a term where our brains are so wired to ask questions or answer questions that we actually purposely have to avoid answering a question to not want to answer it, or better, our brains are like Google. If you go to Google, type something in Google's trying to give you an answer, even if it's wrong. So we got to ask the question, get our brain to give us the answer. And sometimes, if you ask too open, ended up a question that's too like general, our brains can't come up with an answer. But if I could say, you know, if I was able to do A or B or something else, now you can go, I don't want a, maybe B would be okay. But what I really want is C. So we've got to give them

I find me that sometimes when something isn't working for them, and I ask them the question, is there something else that's on value that I could do a lot of times, the thing that they say actually costs less than the thing that they didn't want?

It's probably something that's already easy or give yes

For me, right? You know. And I'm thinking, yeah, all day, I'll do that, right? You know? Because sometimes, because we don't know what's valuable to them. So when they say, Oh, well, what I find is really valuable is, if you gave me that, you know, whenever that case, it could be a court or something that literally doesn't take any time of you, and you're literally going to get the link to it and whatever, like, sure. Like, no problem, right? So. I think that you're right. You have to ask, but you don't want them open ended, so that they just take their God married. What? Right? So, yes, I love that. What are some simple yet effective strategies that will increase the likelihood of selling Higher, higher price packages?

Yeah, so the top down, selling the anchoring the higher offer, and working that down. And then the other way is that you position it like how you lay it out to somebody, is the strategy of how you sell a higher priced offer and actually having a higher priced offer. Because this is the other thing is, a lot of times people are like, well, I could build something for you? Well, no, you need to have something built to put in front of somebody, because you actually need the offer. And again, kind of back to the conversation that you and I just been having, that if you have it built, and they go, Well, I like all these things. I just don't like this one thing. You can tweak it, you can adjust it, you can make it work. But if you don't have a higher priced offer, and you say, well, I could build something for you, now, people are like,

Strategy.

That's right. That's right the time, the energy stock that you know, all the effort that you're going to put into something with no idea whether or not and it should be something that you want to sell. So just coming off like, coming up with it like in the moment, is probably not going to work. So chances are you're going to end that conversation with somebody to try to give yourself time to come up with an offer. You're going to spend time and energy. And then how easy is it going to be to get back onto a call and get their their attention?

Did you find that any difficult when you're asking these questions and following staircase that you will start to see a pattern. Because, like, I know that for me, that's a little bit easier to do when somebody doesn't want that thing or something that they don't want, because I see that there's a pattern of things that people do want, right? You know what I mean? I realize, for me, I find that one of the things that people love when I they say that they don't want this, and I say, Oh, well, what about this? They love that. And for me, that same would be for everybody. But for me, one of those things is when I either say that I'll give them a strategy session, like 45 days later as a check in, they love that, or one of the things I tell them is on 315 minute like laser calls if they have a question so they get stuck, because a lot of times that what they're worried about is that they got money, they'll get stuck and they won't be able to move forward. And then I always tell them, and if you don't use them, you know, you can add them all together, and we can do a strategy call for the whole 45 minutes. They love that, right? You know, usually those things are super easy. So I find that some of the things that they ask for or that I could give them, that that's just what they want, because it's really if you didn't ask enough to find out what is to think. And I think a lot of times, one of the things for people is that they're afraid that they're going to again, because they probably done it before. Done it before, sent money, and they're afraid that they won't do it and they'll pick up. So when you're asking the question, I want to go back to them, is one of the questions that you ask people when you're in the discovery part. And if you do how do you position it? Of the question is, what have you already invested? Because, like I find for me in marketing, I find that knowing what they've already done and invested in helped me a lot, if I already know to listen, oh yeah, I pay blah, blah, blah to do this, and it didn't work out for me. I want to make sure I'm not going to add that into the thing that I'm going to say in my offer. So do you find that that is a question that it's important to ask early on.

I think it's it can be business dependent. I like the question for a few reasons, what have you already tried? That's how I would probably frame it. What have you already tried? Because if they had done something in the past and it was working, they probably still be doing it. Why would they be talking to me? So for me, I might say, What have you already tried in relation to sales? So this might give me an indication of, like, I read a book, or I worked with a sales coach, or they had a different style than me, or, you know, I went through a course and didn't actually complete it. Okay? So that's all great information for me. That one, they know what it's like to coach with somebody, and so I might explore a little bit around that, if that was their answer, like, what, what did, like, what did you get out of working with a coach, and what was it that didn't quite resonate with you? Fabulous.

Thank you so much for being so generous, and you actually forget for them as well. So tell them a little bit about the gift. The button will be below. So whether you're watching it on my YouTube channel, or whether you are listening through it, a button is right there, or telling it up again.

So the gift is, it's an ebook. It's called closing the sale, and it kind of talks through those last three steps of the closing process, and it will give your audience the opportunity to get some language suggestions. Kind of reinforce. Things that are working for them, and make sure that, like, Oh, here's something I can try to do different. So I would love to gift that. And it's if you go to your sales maven.com, forward slash Patty, you can go and grab that ebook. It's my gift to you, and then we'll be connected. And there's lots of other not a lot of it comes after.

Nikki, what's the best way for people to connect with you? The

So best way is to check out my podcast, which is sales Maven, easy to find, to get that ebook, and then we'll be connected. And then I tend to hang out on LinkedIn and Instagram. So if you're a social media person and you like either of those platforms, because

W also have the fun for those as well, as well as her podcast and her book, is selling staircase, so for all of those buttons just below so Mickey, thank you so much for being here with me. This has been a fabulous conversation, and I appreciate you so much. Thank you right audience. Thank you so much for being here with us today and every single week. And if you like this episode, and I am sure you did, please like and review it and subscribe to our YouTube channel, and if you haven't checked out our marketing media magazine, can you grab your free copy at www.m3digitalmag.com until next week. Have a phenomenal week.