#247 - Transforming Education: The Power of Youth Coaching with Joel Nicholson

Welcome to the Money boss, parent podcast. I am Anna Sergunina. Your host. Today, I have a special guest, Joel Nicholson, the founder of Youthfully and a pioneer in youth coaching, Joel will share his journey and passion for coaching, explaining why every student benefits from having a coach in the best time to start, we'll discuss the gaps in today's educational system, how usefully helps students launch passion projects and secure internships, and why traditional success indicators in our educational system are outdated. Joel will share insights on the skills vital for future success and the role of AI in education. So join us for this fascinating discussion today. Hey, money, boss parents, welcome back to the money boss parent Podcast. I'm excited to connect with you today, as I'm joined by Joel Nicholson, the founder of youthfully, a pioneer in youth coaching to discuss how personalized coaching, one on one with you students can transform their educational success. Joel, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for having me. Anna, great to be here.

I'm excited. This is a very interesting conversation, because, and maybe this comes from being a business woman were like coaching, right? Or services of a coach are more like for adults, right? And you sort of redefining this whole idea that students, as they are getting ready to be make a very big step in their life, may actually also benefit from having a coach to help them figure out what it is that they want, and how do they get into the best college, right? So I, I'm very intrigued by what you're, you know, provide in terms of services, but why don't you start by sharing a little bit about your story and like, why? Like, youth coaching is a passion project for you.

Sure. Yeah, it's been basically the thing that I've dedicated my life to. When I went through my own educational experience, I just I finished my I finished high school, not really getting the support I needed to be able to transition in a university despite both my parents are educators. My dad was a guidance counselor. My mom was in special education, so I had basically personal assistance when it comes to that I went to a decent high school, but just felt as though no one really had the expertise. And then also like an unbiased perspective outside of my family to be able to support me have somebody in my corner, maybe somebody who has achieved what I want to achieve in my life. And then when I got to university, I felt the same way my career services department at my university sort of let me down. And I had these goals and aspirations, and I was sort of veered off towards goals that were different or more traditional, to optimize the chances of landing a job that they wanted me to get, rather than the one that I really aspired to get. And then I just reflected on my whole educational experience, and was introduced to executive coaching at around the same time, and I saw the power of being able to bring this modality that is so powerful that's traditionally only been reserved for executives to students to help them achieve what they want to achieve in their lives, and set up, you know, their lives and their and reach their educational career and personal potential.

I love that a lot, because in as you're describing kind of your experience, I was like, yeah, that kind of happened to me as well. Like, there, there, there wasn't quite a lot of resources. And, you know, just things that you just kind of like, you go to college, you sort of know what you want, right? Or you start to college, and then from there. And so I wish, I wish I've had more support, because, well, I mean, for, just for the side note, I actually switched majors, right? That was the reasons, like, I wish I would have thought this through beforehand, right? Or had a place to go or ask questions, or, you know, someone to discuss these things with, but, but I'm glad you figured this out, because I think this is very much needed as you know, as we see, what is going on these days with how the educational system is changing, how technology is impacting us, the, you know, the growth of AI and all of these tools. So I know we're going to talk about it today, because I'm very curious what your take is on on that. But, but talk a little bit more about, like, how do you see this service, like the coaching? Because you mentioned executive coaching. I'm like, That's exactly what I was thinking. Like, this is, sounds like a very special right? Sort of assistance. It's only for these high end sort of, you know, individuals. So how would that work for a regular student, for our regular family?

Yeah, I don't know why I was called executive coaching. Actually, it's, it's now now. It's actually just called. Coaching. It was traditionally reserved for executives. For whatever reason, I think just just, there was limited training. The certifications were expensive, but, but coaching is really this learning modality that is, is traditionally known as non directive coaching. There's, there's something called the coaching spectrum and and directive learning is more around like mentorship or giving advice or teaching and and that that's more telling a student what to do or giving them, you know, pushing them in the direction and almost giving them the answer, whereas non directive coaching is more so we believe that the student has everything that they need to accomplish the goal. They just they have all the resources. They just need to be asked the right question. They need to be they need to talk it out and be challenged in their thinking. They need to clarify their thought process and so on. The non directive end in coaching, we use tools like asking thoughtful questions, prompting students to think deeper, clarifying their thoughts, listening, summarizing back things like that, and so that's why students find it quite refreshing, because it's not really something that they experience in traditional education, which is much more directive learning versus non directive.

So when would a student or a family, right? I mean, kind of, I'm sort of dragging both, but it's really for the student. So when do you advise for them to start this coaching project? We

have students as young as in grade six, I tend to see the the sort of the development of a student focused primarily in up to grade six, on on the core essentials, the reading, the writing, the arithmetic. And then once the once students have felt as though they've they've gotten a strong hold on those foundations, that's when we find some students start to get an interest in in coaching. And our coaching programs are usually very outcome oriented, and so they're they have a very particular purpose. One is called, you know, launching a passion project. Another is getting internship experience. Another is called path finding, so figuring out what you want to do in your educational journey or career journey. Another one is on university admissions, and those start to become more interesting for students more in high school, but some students are sort of prodigies, and they're a little bit more interested in that younger because they may not feel as challenged in the day to day, you know, classroom setting as they want to be,

yeah. So, so can we expand on it? Because I'm very curious about a passion project. I feel like this. This would have been a cool thing for me personally to do, you know, years ago, but I didn't know that existed, like I just, I just love that idea. So, so talk a little bit about what it is, how do you support students and coming up with something like that, and how does that actually really help them in getting in? Like, I guess the end result would be being admitted into the University of their dreams, right? Like, that's one of the things that helps.

Yeah, primarily, that would be the end goal for the majority of our students, they want to get into a top tier university, and we'll talk about the reasons why that is a growing area of interest as well. But in terms of, in terms of what a passion project is, we see it as a combination of a student's values, interests, strengths, and just sort of an amalgamation of their goals as well. So this is not just a random start a nonprofit, just to have that on your resume. It's something that they are deeply interested in. They will work on it outside of our coaching sessions because they are motivated by it. They have a sense of ownership of it as well, and we're just helping them figure out what that idea is by digging into their values and their strengths and their goals and all that stuff, and then helping them take that project to the next level, where many students, if they have a project like this in the curriculum, they might take it to a sort of like maybe a three out of 10, whereas, with a coach, we see our students take take it to an eight or a 10 out of 10. We've had students being featured on Good Morning America. We've had students in the New York Times win, you know, hundreds of 1000s of dollars in scholarships because of these projects, and we just really push them to go to the next level with them.

Yeah, no, I love this I love this idea so much. So how much time do you need? Like, because I'm thinking about my my listeners who have kids that are a little bit younger. So, like, I'm very intrigued, intrigued by this idea. But I'm like, do I push my five year old to start a passion for. Project. Like, we're ways away right from from applying for college. But one of the thoughts that I was having, just like, you know, and putting this all together, is like, how do you as a parent kind of observe your child right to start to recognize some of this, some of these things, or some of these ideas? So like, when do you suggest so to start the special project? Yeah,

I've, I still coach as well. And so I just, I have a student who just finished their project and, and it was a Bar Mitzvah project for his bar mitzvah that he wanted to do. And he's in grade six, or something like that. And, and so it doesn't necessarily have to be for the purpose of university admissions, especially if a student is younger, it's really just to help them reach their potential and get challenged in ways that they may want to get challenged in. And this student is an intelligent student, and he just felt not so much not challenged in his day to day educational environment. So wanted to do something entrepreneurial, and then also do something for his bar mitzvah in this case. And so we have a wide range of different things. Another student who's in grade seven did actually an internship in architecture because she thought that she wanted to be an architect, but she had no idea what an architect actually does. So the best way to do that is we have an internship program, and where she's she got experience on this and pitched a construction company her work. And after that, she realized that it's not really for her, and so she is exploring another route. And so this allows students to not only gain new skills and experiences to help them, you know, grow certain skills that they aren't in a classroom environment, but also try things so that they're not going down this path of, I want to be a doctor, I want to be an architect, or I want to be a lawyer. That may not be the right fit for them in a few years, and so they can realize this sooner.

Yes, I want to be a doctor. Path happened for me too. Unfortunately, I, well, actually, fortunately, I'm not a doctor, but that's where I started. So, okay, so I love that. So it doesn't because I was picturing that. It's like, okay, we do this project. And, you know, last two years of high school, because we want to have this sort of like, you know, fresh and ongoing. And this is the thing that you apply with to the best universities that you're really interested in. But it sounds like it could be done something beforehand, because you can probably showcase that and and learn from it as you highlight it Absolutely. Yep. Cool. You also mentioned internships. So can we talk a little bit about how, where the those fit in. And again, maybe I just have these preconceived assumptions that you do all of this stuff in the last few years of your high school years. But what is, how do you guys help with internship placement? When is it good to start it so, like all the good stuff around internships, yeah,

with internships, internships are we wanted to redesign the internship model a lot of internships are? You get them through connections, maybe that you might have, and maybe they're not so great in terms of your development. So a lot of you know the joke is the interns go get the coffee, and there are so many students who get actual internships, and they say they aren't really challenged or learning that much, and and then you're often having to commute to an office spend 40 hours a week. And so just the internship just didn't really seem that valuable to us, and so we wanted to flip it on its head. And so we partner with organizations. We ask them, What are the biggest challenges that they're facing in their organizations right now, whether that's something to do with AI or something on maybe a company who starts like some sort of a health supplement and wants some more research done in a particular area, and then we partner with them to actually create the draft project and the problem and the question. And then students who enroll in this internship program can select what internship they want to do, and they get coaching to break down and solve this problem, because it's a really challenging problem, and then they present it to often, it's the CEO or C level executive. So they're getting really good presentation experience. They're learning how to communicate and set up meetings. You know, most students don't even know how to send a calendar invite or write an email. They're not taught these practical communication skills in school. So we think it's a great opportunity to expose students, both in university, high school and in rare cases, younger, to internships, and then they're able to actually see and test first hand if they're interested in these types of not only roles, but all. So industries. So there's a bunch of Win, win win opportunities for the for for students, and then the icing on the cake is they can put it on their resume, and they have a nice reference letter from the internship manager for a future University application for the next job, for whatever it is. Yeah,

no. I love that. I love that I and, you know, one of the things in as a business owner myself, you know, from frequently contacted by students right, especially around summer, like, Okay, here's, you know, here's my resume. I'd love to do, you know, I'd love to do an internship with you. And I'm always like, scratch, scratching my head thinking, like, Okay, what do I want them to do? But it would, would be nice to kind of like, you know, download that information. Say, here's what I'm struggling with, like, okay, it could be marketing. It could be, I don't know, some of the like, more financial planning, relating related, related things. It could be anything right in the business. And then you can kind of pair up that student with, with the set of those challenges. So I really love that idea. I gotta get on the list somewhere, wherever the you have those students,

we can get you on the list for sure. And the great thing is, is also a lot of business owners say I don't know what I'd have an intern do for 40 hours a week. And so all of our internships are part time and remote, so there's no having to manage or supervise our coach quote, manages the project, and so you're also getting experience from a coach who is in industry, often an expert in that area. So it's valuable for the business owner, it's valuable for the student, so everyone wins. So that's where we've sort of rethought that internship experience. Yes,

I love that. And then we are all remote anyway, so this, this would be perfect, yeah, because thinking back where I had my unpaid internship, I had to drive to downtown Baltimore and park my car, pay for parking. It was for, you know, unpaid internships. It was all the fun, but it's different these days. So yeah, I love that. And also, too. I just today, I just have all the one questions. So like, when do you recommend for somebody to do an internship, and do you recommend to do more than one?

Yeah, as it's so much on a case by case basis for each student, if a student is indicating a strong interest in a particular field, it's probably best to set them up with an internship. And if, if you know a family doesn't have any connections in that area or that space, then reach out to us. We'll probably have a have an internship opportunity in that area, and the student will get one on one coaching from a coach who's also in that area. And so it can be, it can be as early as whenever they're demonstrating that kind of interest in that changes depending on the maturity of each individual student. I don't even see any gender correlation. Either we have some young female students who are very interested in a particular industry or topic, really early. And then some, some male students who are like that, either so parents will know when a student is demonstrating an interest, and then also when they have a goal that requires, maybe something that that allow that requires them to stand out a little bit more, whether that's getting into a top tier university or getting a more competitive job, where a high quality internship experience may be really useful for them to gain skills and and and a resume sort of sort of booster that will allow them to distinguish their application.

I think it makes sense. Maybe this is my just financial planner head is on, like, Okay, gotta come to dates. When do you start to do that? Yeah. So one thing I was thinking, and this is too, like, some of the personal experience and what clients share, like, and maybe I've just forgotten how it was when I was in high school and college, like, but these days, like, conversations around GPA being something more than 4.0 it's just kind of blows my mind, like, I know students take AP classes and whatever else, and what I've heard is that even some of those more talented, or, you know, more advanced students, sometimes, they still don't get In these, you know, whether it's top universities or, you know, universities that are at the top of their list. So, like, you know, what is missing, and how do you kind of, like, look at, you know, somebody who's really academically smart, like, with these kinds of coaching programs, passion project, internship, kind of fill the gap, because it's like, I would think, right? Like somebody who's has a really high GPA and, you know, presents themselves well, should be admitted to the university that they're interested in. But it's like, so anyway, I was just wondering, like, what is the missing? Right? Because that's probably the question in a lot of parents minds.

So that's something that so many students are struggling with, focus and and allocating their attention and prioritization and leadership and confidence. So a lot of these soft skills we call these foundations, and then and then, when it comes to other things, like storytelling when it comes to writing a compelling University application, and then problem solving is a big one is I was taught this in management consulting, how to break down a structure a problem, and students just still aren't getting taught that. So so it's more these, like when you look at what the outcomes are, the learning outcomes of what what academia wants in their students. It's often these things, right? But, but, but then they're not teaching these things. We actually say, Okay, if these are the outcomes, if these are the things that universities are valuing the most, that employers are valuing the most, that parents are valuing the most, let's just teach them directly. Let's not teach geography and hope that they learn, you know, critical thinking. Let's just teach them critical thinking.

Yes, no, I love geography, but that's not about me. It was a fun, a fun topic, okay, well, what about athletes? How, like, we didn't touch on, you know, because that's like a completely different track, right? For someone that you know, maybe you know, internally and passionately, passionate about you know, particular sport, like, yeah, how do you do? You guys work with athletes. We

work with a lot of athletes. And the goal with an athlete is usually to get a d1 scholarship to get that university paid for. And so there's a certain realm of athletic coaching that isn't under our current scope. We mostly support the athlete in the in the other areas outside of their sports. So figuring out where they want to apply to for universities and making the best possible decision for them in terms of what they're looking for from a holistic university experience, their goals after that. Do they really want to pursue professional athletics, or do they want to break into a particular career and thinking through that before so that they don't end up in third or fourth year university and are having a sort of scramble and figure out what they want to do with their lives, and then often, a lot of the skills that are that that students are struggling with in an academic and extracurricular environment are the same skills that they need to work on that will help them propel their athletics, mindset, focus, emotional control, communication skills, teamwork, collaboration, leadership. So those are often things that we you know, that we focus on in coaching, that we see transferable benefits in their sport.

I love that I was telling my husband just recently, again, have a five year old son who is just at the very beginning spectrum right on. He's starting kindergarten for what it's worth, in the in August. So, like, I was telling my husband, like, I would be really happy if he was an athlete, and he just started to play a few sports, and, you know, mom, like, my head is like, Oh my God, he's going to be, you know, soccer superstar and whatever. Like, I don't have a particular set. I was just like, it would be so cool. But then I started to think about, like, some of these questions, like, well, will he learn these, you know, soft skills? Because all the attention will be on sports and, like, what would be his career? So it's a, it's a early conversation, for sure, but it's a conversation that I know happens in a lot of parents heads, because they look at their kids and like, okay, or maybe not. Maybe they, you know, they don't think about it until later. So what I wanted to ask you is for parents like myself, right, who have younger kids and kind of thinking about the future, still saving for college, like knowing that all of the disruption that is happening, like you mentioned, the internet, was the thing that probably happened when you and I were in college, because I remember, like, when I the first, the first day of on campus, was when I went to, I don't even know what it was whether admissions officer somewhere, when I got my email address, like the first email address, it was like, this was real, right? I didn't even know what to do with it. But that's another story. So if we think about, like, the next 20 years, right? Like, what, like, how do we connect these dots? Right? Because there's still a lot of pushback in in parents minds about, like, Hey, what are we saving for this education? Right, for this college costs? But it's changing so much. Like, do we still need to do that? Like, how do we, kind of, like, lay this path for ourselves, knowing that we're doing the right steps because we don't want to lose the time, and at the same time, we're providing these valuable skills to our, you know, children at whatever age they are. So like, what are you? What is your take? Because you kind of swimming in all of this right now with your. Your students?

Yeah, I see a couple trends happening. The first is that some high school students are foregoing the university altogether. They're just doing the math, and they're saying, Okay, I could spend whatever not I could spend there. My parents could spend $400,000 over a four year period, or whatever it ends up being right for, for a business degree, and I that could get me a job at Amazon, or Amazon is interested in me right now. Why don't I just have an interview? And so there's this. There's we've had a couple students actually get jobs right after graduation from from high school, and we're hearing about it more and more. There's a story about a student who got rejected from not one of ours. This is external, who got rejected from something like 16 universities across the US and then was hired by Google.

Oh my gosh,

be a software developer and more top employers like Google and, I think, Shopify and some other some other employers aren't requiring a university degree, and many are actually not even requiring high school education. They're assessing candidates based on projects or or other evaluation metrics like, you know, interviews, or video interviews, or things like that. And they're not looking to grades as the as what has, as what previously was the de facto evaluation for for someone's potential, they're actually seeing no grades isn't the best indicator. It's other things. And so that that is probably going to happen more and more over the next 10 years. When your son gets to 15, I could see a lot of pathways where there is just a instead of a new graduate Leadership program at a university. I could see new graduate leadership programs pop up at a high school, but, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't stop saving for university yet. I would say that that's probably still going to be the standard for many years to come. I just foresee other alternatives popping up, other educational alternatives that aren't four years there's one entrepreneur that I know who is starting an entrepreneurship school where the outcome of that school is for you to start a business, like start a startup. So essentially Y Combinator in San Francisco, but for high school students. And so there's just going to be so many more of these alternatives. And what we see is we, we see that most of these alternatives won't be one to one. So our unique differentiator is we will supplement anything that the student does, whether it's getting into a career, going into an entrepreneurship school or just standard, maybe a micro school at home, or a home school pod, or whatever, will always be the one that can scale high quality, one on one coaching and educational research, time and time again, the only thing that they found to be to get what's called two sigma learning outcomes, meaning two standard deviations higher than the norm is one to one learning and on top of that, coaching being so powerful. So that's that's sort of where we differentiate, but also where the market is heading. To just give your parents, your parents who are listening, a little bit of insight as to what might happen.

Yeah, no, I had a realization moment too. Like, wow, if this is where we headed. Like, definitely one on one. You know, training and coaching would help these students to develop into something, right, like wherever they head. And so, I mean, I think, I think a lot of parents, too, will realize over time that maybe the traditional educational path is not for their students. And and I'm, I'm gonna hope and advocate that our financial system changes in a way where, like all the, you know, college savings plans, like 529, money can be used, you know, elsewhere, because right now it's still kind of pretty rigid. You have to use it for education. And so maybe 10 years from now, we'll have another conversation, and it's looking, looking like it's, you know, a lot more easily available for other things. So yeah, I'm, I'm certainly gonna continue advocating for my for my clients to still save doesn't matter. That's

a great point. Because if there are all of these alternatives that in 10 years, you actually see, oh, my, oh, this is, this is a much better option for me, but, but, but what you've all of that, all of that funding that you've raised over the next 10 years can only be allocated to accredited educational institutions. It sort of straps you into having to pursue, let's say, a traditional educational degree, even if you may deem that not being the best possible allocation of your resources. So maybe, um. To just diversify sort of financial planning, a little bit to de risk that type of, that possible scenario where the government may not open it up to these alternative providers, and I can, especially with all of the loans that have been forgiven over the last couple of years, that's only going to drive tuition up even more, because what the message that that sends to universities is, oh, okay, well, why don't if they're just if their loans are going to be forgiven, then why don't we just keep driving up the price? Yeah,

charge more. Agree, agree for that. Well, we'll see how that all kind of unfolds, for sure, but yeah, I love the idea of diversifying, and maybe not necessarily all saving in, like the 529, college savings plan, just because you're not sure. And most parents are, like, when you start, you know, if you start at zero when your child is just born, of course you're not sure, right? Yeah, right. Like you're still not sure, but you keep doing it. So yeah, it's, it's certainly a very interesting conversation. Okay, so everyone is listening. Might be interested in kind of exploring the next steps. How do they connect with you? Joel, and then, like, what is the first step for them to just kind of test the ground? Like, maybe this coaching is for my child?

Yeah, there's two ways. So you can go to youthfully.com youth, fully spelt like, it's like, it's like, it's pronounced.com and we have, we have, we offer a free initial consultation for any parent who's interested in exploring coaching, whether that's for applying major scholarships or universities or passion projects, internships, path binding, anything like that. We also have what's called a ready you quiz, if you are interested in, if maybe you have a son or daughter or child who's interested in university or post secondary education, and you're just getting a feeling for how ready they are for maybe a, you know, top university application. Then we have a quiz that allows you to assess where they're at, and we'll, we'll link that in the show notes,

Yeah, most definitely great. Well, I mean, I'm, I'm very excited to see you know what the next 10 years will more brings to my family and all the clients. You know that I get to walk side by side for sure. Any last minute thoughts before we close?

Last minute thoughts, gosh, I I would just leave with this is that coaching is something that a parent can do as well up to a certain age. There's a there's a period in which a student goes through this process of development called individuation, where a student wants to a young person wants to build their own sense of self. And so I often see parents still wanting to sort of like, maintain that role as a coach, but a student sort of pushing them away. And the nice part about a youth coach is that students actually still use us as a way to to to grow and develop, and parents want their child to still grow and develop, but it's it's done in a way that is, like more unbiased, so, so a student is more open to that level of development that may be outside of what they see, maybe facing pressure from a parent or something like that. So if any parents are out there, kind of getting that sense, the same sort of feeling that many, many folks remember when maybe they learned how to how to drive from their parents. You know, that's the only way it's like, too hard, too hard on the break and things like that, if you're getting that sense. And now might be a good time to to bring in a coach and and if not, then, then you're crushing it. And keep going and still use the elements of coaching. And we do offer also a certification and coaching if, if some parents are interested in learning more about this, to implement within their own within their own children, or in their own communities.

Wow, that's very awesome. Well, thank you. I didn't even think about that, but yeah, a very good transitional point. So again, Joel, thank you so much for coming on to the show today. Thanks

for having me. You.