#260 – Do Business Like a Mother: Finding Harmony in the Chaos with Jen Morris

Welcome back to the money boss parent podcast. I am your host, Anna Sergunina, and today we're diving into a topic that hits home for so many of us, which is balancing the chaos of motherhood with the demands for entrepreneurship. My guest today is someone who's been walking this path for nearly two decades. Meet Jen Morris. Jen is the mom of two, a community builder, entrepreneur, professional actor, public speaker, and the founder of renegade motherhood, a brand that is all about empowering moms to build successful businesses while raising the next generation. She's also the creator of the mother mind collective, an amazing digital community that connects moms in business for networking, growth and genuine relationships. Today we're talking about how to do business like a mother finding the harmony and the chaos of motherhood and entrepreneurship. Tune in into our conversation. Hey, my name, boss, parents, welcome back. I am excited to connect with our guest today. Jen, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. Yes. So

we are going to chat today about how do we find this harmony and the chaos of being moms, you know, raising kids and also being entrepreneurs and having our own businesses. I'm very interested in this topic, because I feel like the world, especially in the last few years or since COVID kind of happened to all of us, changed tremendously, and so how women, particularly make their income, also shifted quite a bit. So I know you have a lot to share on that, so let's dive into this topic. But I think it would be helpful for you to share a little bit about your story and kind of how, how you ended up here.

Yeah, no, I'm excited to talk about this, because it's all of the work I do now is, you know, kind of a culmination of the journey, and still very much where I am as a mom of two littles and an entrepreneur. So, yeah, I have been building businesses for almost two decades and probably even a little bit longer. I studied acting in college, so and then I worked professionally and semi professionally for a long time. And you know, being an actor is really like being a small business owner, I think even now more than ever, because now it's gone totally to like self tapes. And since so much, you know, all the stuff that happened during the pandemic, you couldn't do anything live, so everything became self tape, so you really are your own, like manager and now producer and director and makeup artist and all the things. So having this, you know, acting background from an early age, I never really wanted to work for other people. So when I found myself in New York City, pursuing my acting career, I was juggling a lot of other jobs just to be able to, like, make rent, and it was really hard. One of those jobs actually landed me working for a corporate health fair company. And at the time, my health was not so great because I was really burned out from, you know, not sleeping enough, and, you know, living on a really small budget, which meant I didn't always prioritize my health. And so I started really connecting with a lot of people in the health space. Ended up starting my first kind of affiliate business for a nutrition company. That's where I really started learning about the power of, like, building a network professionally and by doing that, ended up going back to school, getting my health coaching certification, and then building a couple different businesses in the nutrition Space in New York. And, you know, having just, you know, being a solopreneur can be really isolating. And even in New York, where you're surrounded by millions of people every single day, you know, not having, like, a dedicated office, you know, and co workers that I would go in and see, it was really isolating. So my professional network really became sort of those co workers for me, in a sense. So I've always been a huge believer in community and in having strong networks, both prefer personally and professionally, especially as an entrepreneur and solopreneur. Flash forward, met my husband in New York, we decided it was time to kind of get out of that grind a little bit. Ended up in Colorado, got pregnant with my first who is now seven and a half, and when I was kind of coming out of that first postpartum haze, I wanted to get back to networking, but I realized pretty quickly that a lot of my go to sort of organizations were not really conducive to working moms, or, you know, moms with with babies. Mine was, you know, a baby at the time, and so I actually ended up starting a. Networking organization for women in business in Denver. Co founded it, and that was growing, and we were just about to start scaling it, and then COVID happened, and we just didn't really have any kind of digital backup plan. And so we ended up kind of moving away from that. And at the same time, I was pregnant with my second she was born. Labor Day 2020, and, you know, about a year and a half later, after I was kind of re emerging again from life with two postpartum and then the COVID fog that everyone was, you know, living under, I found myself really wanting to connect, you know, again professionally, with people, but I really found myself wanting to connect with like, moms who are also doing business, because I felt like we just had this common vocabulary, and I think shared lived experience that made it, made us go deeper faster. So hosted a Facebook post in a local moms group saying like, hey, you know anybody, any moms in business out here? Because I just moved to the neighborhood where we now live, right before COVID hit. So I didn't really have a network when you know where I lived, and you know one Facebook post, and then it just sort of, we would connect once a month, and then all of a sudden, it just sort of took off and became really this sort of movement and a personal mission of mine to amplify and elevate moms in business, both through, you know, networking, coaching and really community. So that's, that's where I am now, and I'm, I'm loving it. It's been so much fun.

Yeah, no, I love it. I know there's a phrase that, you know, frequently used that says, do business like a mother. There's a lot in it, right? Because, I mean, there's, there's also lots of other phrases that I've heard throughout, you know, my career, you know, in financial services, and also, like, as a mom and but you feel like, if you want to get something done you, you know, you give it to the busiest person in the world, right? A mom does all kinds of things, so which is great, right? And I, like, for a while I was like, I was proud of myself, like, for being able to do all of that, like, I can handle anything, right? Like, just, just, just, like, give me anything. But then, you know, things shift and change, right, professionally and personally. So if we think about this phrase, and women embody this like strength, right, like this, this, this presence, like we can do anything, what would you say are like the challenges, that kind of balance or not right? This, this power, I want to call it, a power we have as moms and women in us, you know, running our businesses or having, you know, side hustles and kind of, kind of doing it all.

Yeah, I think motherhood gives us these amazing abilities to multitask, to I think, kind of get to the core of a problem, and problem solve quickly, and I think gives us a lot of empathy and vulnerability that is really, I think, just critical to success as a business owner, and just just to the greater human good. I think we need more of that in society. On the flip side, however, you know, moms are also often doing much more of the unpaid labor, you know, at home, the unseen labor. I mean, that could be a whole other conversation, whole other podcast episode, and we do tend to say yes to too many things because we feel like we either have to or societal conditioning or perfectionism. I mean, there's so many reasons why, and that can definitely lead to, like, burnout. So you know, a lot of what we do talk about like in my community is this sort of setting boundaries, and also, what does ambition and success like really look like to you? Because I think that's something that you see so many influencers, you know, on social media and stuff, talking about how to make a seven figure income and how to do this and how to do that. And it's like that. That's not the only outcome that makes you a successful business owner. And I find that there's, you know, a lot of moms in my community who are like, you know, I want to create a business where, like, I can take the entire month of December off. That's going to come up a lot. And just in some recent conversations, actually, this last two days, I've had two conversations with two different moms in my community. They both said that, like, this is the first time that I'm gonna, like, take off two weeks, or take off the whole month, and I'm like, you know, oh, and I was like, but it's your business. You can do what you want to do. And isn't that a beautiful thing that, like, you get to do that? And ultimately, it's, it's about what you. Want to do. So I think like, we need more moms in business. We need more moms having more spending power. We need more moms really getting paid their worth. And we also need those moms to also have really clear boundaries, so that they can actually focus on those most important things. And I don't have the all the answers to that, because I can be my own worst enemy sometimes too. Like, let's create eight different projects, you know, and try to get it all done in a week. And, you know, and and show up as a mom, I want to show up too. So it's kind of just a constantly checks and balances of like, checking in with yourself, and also having people who can recognize, you know, I have a few people in my network right now, who are really good at, like, noticing and just reflecting back to me, like, Hey, Jen, is this something you have to do right now, or is this something you can, like, table, you know? Because what I'm hearing from you is you, you know, you, you're looking like you're maybe not sleeping enough. And I think that's another superpower that moms have, is like, we can, sometimes we're not very good at mothering ourselves, but we can be really good at, like, mothering our friends and our, you know, our business partners, of like, it's okay to take a break, it's okay to rest, it's okay to, like, order dinner out tonight if you don't feel like cooking, like, do that. Take care of yourself. And we we need that. And I think we're always telling our kids to do that, but then we often need someone else to kind of step in and do

that for us? Yeah, right. And I think I like that a lot, because then that's hopefully where you get that advice right, or those reminders from the community. Because it's hard. Sometimes you kind of just get carried away, right? And you're like, Okay, I'm doing everything for someone else, right, for the family, kids, for your business. So like, how do we try to find this balance with the demands of being an entrepreneur, starting a business, or, you know, whatever else, maybe you have a great career, right? And you're still also trying to balance that, because you have to be at work and you have a family that you're responsible for as well. So, like,

I don't love the word balance, but I know lack of a better one. I say this, yeah, the time right, especially

during COVID, I feel like there was a lot of kind of throwing that word out the window, work, life, integrations. But that also doesn't sit quite well with me. So how do we get right? If you have a scale like visual in your head. Like, how do we or do we balance it?

Yeah, well, I think first of all, it's like, it's, it's up to you as the, either career, you know, human, the business owner, to kind of set like again, that like, what is it that you're looking to achieve right now, and what does that look like? And then to like, not care what everybody else is telling you, because I think we often go out and we're measuring ourselves based on other people's standards when it's not even really what we want. But we've, like, kind of fallen into this trap that we think we should want, this seven figure business or this, you know, whatever, 100 clients and 100 days, or whatever that looks like, whatever some coach is yelling about on social media. Um, and so we kind of fell in this trap of thinking, Oh, well, yeah, that is, I can I can do that. I can do that. And then all of a sudden, we're running towards something that we don't even really need or want right now. Some of the best advice given to me a while ago is from a friend and a business owner who's very successful, and she was just like, you're in a season right now. Jen, like, this was probably a year and a half ago where, at the time, I had a six year old and a two and a half year old, and she was like, you're just in a season. And I've been in that season, and like, you will, you will move out of that season, but like, it's okay to, like, be where you are. And it was really, I found a lot of like relief in that. And, you know, also getting clear too. I have, I have a summit, my first live Summit, that I'm working on right now. And I have a good friend, Jen, another Jen, who I was kind of idea bouncing off of a while back. And she was like, all of this sounds great, but like, I see what you're trying to create for the attendees, but what is it that you are actually looking to achieve from this summit? And it was such a great question, because, honestly, I had not even considered it. I was just so like, this is what other people do, and so I should be doing this. And it was such a great minute for me to pause and be like, Okay, what are my my goals for this? What do I want to achieve? So I don't kind of leave myself behind, I think oftentimes, and I've done this before, I've built the wrong business, because I've done it based upon what I thought I should do or what other people were telling me I should do, and it wasn't about what I really wanted to do, and then we are out of balance right there, when we're not feeling like happy. And you know, entrepreneurship is hard. Running a business is hard. And if you're doing it out of obligation, or doing it because you're creating what somebody told you you should do, like it's probably it's gonna feel harder. So I think that's. The first thing is just to, like, really sit down with yourself, with someone, with whoever it is, like someone that you trust a journal. It can just be a journal, or whatever that is. And just like, really, you start to think about, like, what is it that I'm actually trying to, like me myself, achieve, you know, is it a financial goal? Is it do I want to be a solopreneur where I'm making, you know, maybe two to $3,000 a month, and it's enough to do XYZ. Do I want more of, like, a small business where it's maybe more like $10,000 a month? Maybe I have, like, one VA part time taking some of the lift off my plate. But it's not something that I'm like, working weekends. Or do I really want, like, the whole thing, the, you know, the seven figure thing, because that sounds great, but it also comes with a whole other level of work and commitment. And I think sometimes we think, like, that's what we want to do, and we're racing toward this, and then we get there, or we're, you know, we're like, this, wait a minute, this isn't it. This isn't it. And I think because as moms, we're like, you said earlier, just responding to other people's needs so much we never really stop and just consider like, or even just if we're doing it, just to have those check in points where it's like, okay, how is this feeling? How is this like feeling in my body, like, am I sleeping? Am I like, am I, you know, am I am I having my needs met, or am I just, like, burning myself out and I'm not even really having fun doing it? You're gonna, you're gonna know, if you give yourself a minute to just chill and, like, actually, you know, listen to whatever your body is trying to tell you.

Yeah, I love that. I want to kind of take us into that direction. So can we talk a little bit about, like, what do you do? Like, what are, you know, what can you do in your day to day life, to have those moments, right? So that you can ask yourself a question, like, in, you know, peace and quiet while you're have that five minutes to yourself. Like, what are some of the practical things you would suggest? Yeah, I

mean, it could be like, I have a friend, Megan, who is, like, really good about setting timers in her calendar that are like, Get up and take a walk around the block. And so, like, after an hour or two, she gets up and she just does, and it's like a five minute loop. It's not going out for like, a 15 mile hike. It's just like a five minute loop to, like, kind of reset and move her body. I do the same thing. My body is very good at telling me if I've been at my computer too long. And so, like, even right before we jumped on this, I sat and I was like, I'm gonna bang out one more email before we, you know, jump on and then I was like, nope. And I, like, got up and I, like, just stretched, and I took three minutes and I, you know, I'm on a huge audio book, like, kick right now, but I'm actually listening to fiction, because I used to read for fun all the time, and I don't do it anymore. And the part of me that's like, the ambitious, driven entrepreneur was like, you should be listening to, like, business development books and, you know, revisiting the classics. And then I was just like, no, like, I'm also a creative person, and I need, like, downtime where my brain is not strategizing and thinking about marketing and thinking about ticket sales, and so that's been really powerful for me, because I'll just put on a good book, and sometimes it's five minutes, and sometimes, like, I just need a break for five minutes, and I'll do the same thing. I'll get up, I'll take a walk, I'll go into the kitchen and have a glass of water, you know, and I'm listening to something that's like, just fun and, like, kind of chick lit and and it just is like a little like, mental break. I yeah, I have a lot of different like, body workers in my corner that I work with on a regular basis. I've had a long journey with chronic pain, and so I do, for myself, have to invest really heavily in in that piece. And then I've really found identified the people who are like my water cooler, you know, friends like since I don't have an office where I have a bunch of people like that, I can just take a break or say hi in the bathroom, or say hi in the break room, I have those people that I can shoot a quick voice memo to and just be like, hey, quick thing. If you have a minute, I'm just, I'm struggling with this decision, like, would love to bounce it off of you. Or just, Hey, how's your day going? How was your thing? How was this? How was that? And like that is so important as both just a parent, to have those people that you can talk to, and as a business owner, especially if you're like a solopreneur, I think it's, it's critical to have those people who are supportive, who have your back, and also, I think most importantly, know what you're trying to achieve. Because I think that often we especially in early stages of building a business, you have this idea, and then you go to somebody and they don't know what it is you're actually trying to achieve. And they, like, shoot it down, because they're like, Well, why would you do that? Like, you're really good at this other thing. So, like, why would you because they don't actually know what it is you're trying to do. So it's really important to, like, be thoughtful about who the people are that you, especially as a business owner, kind of let into. Your inner circle, so that you know that they know what your goals are, and so they can actually be an effective kind of sounding board for

you. Yes, yeah. So having, like, your business friends, I love that. Yeah,

your business besties, I call them my work wives, or my my business mom friends or Yeah,

yeah, no, that's helpful. I have a few comments on some of the things you've shared. I found it helpful to announce ahead of time. I think maybe my son is in this phase right now where he's five and a half to start a kindergarten. And so he's in the phase right now where it's like, okay, what are we doing today? And so I go to announce the calendar like, you know, we're going to school. We have swim class, or, you know, martial arts, or whatever else going on. So then he's curious. He, I guess, wants to know what's, what's, what's happening. So I announced I had a time Hey, and I told my husband it was funny, but there was this weekend. I'm like, hey, I want to let you know that next weekend I'm going to get my nails done. And they all laughed, like, because they know, like, when mommy goes to get her nails done, it's like, a special thing. I'm like, I just want, I just want you to know, so that nothing else comes up right during that time. So, I mean, you know, it's a, you know, I made it, you know, sound, you know, fun and exciting. I wanted to set their expectation right. Like, here's what's happening for me. So I found, I mean, this is just most recent example, but I found it really like, hey, set everybody's expectations. This is what's happening for you. Because I feel like I have, like, if you look at your calendar and kind of peel the layers, like I feel, you know, I'm sure moms out there too, you have your work calendar, right? Or your business calendar, then you have your child's calendar, then you have your family's calendar, and then, like, it is, like an onion. So, like, Alright, no, where's my calendar? Like, where? Yeah, where do I fit in? So I put my appointments on the calendar, and then I announced them. Like, I'm doing this, you know, I mean, yeah, not very every week, but, you know, whatever it is, it's happening. Yeah, no,

the next, the next, like, six weeks are really, really full for me, and with a lot of exciting stuff and some travel and so over the weekend, I sat down with my husband, and I said, Okay, I need you to grab your calendar, and I want to make sure that everything that I have going on is in your calendar and just address any questions or see if there's going to be any issues with pickups and drop offs and all the things. And just Yeah, make, make the people who need to know aware so that there's so that you're Yeah, you're making it. You're making yourself a priority. I also am really big on telling my girls, like, about my business, because I want, you know, because it, I think it helps with their buy in as well, like they get when I have an event. You know, a lot of my networking events are in the morning, you know, after after school starts, but I have to be there ahead of time because I'm running it. And so those mornings I'm, I can't do drop off and and I'll let them know, you know, the night or two before, like, hey, just reminder, Dad's gonna do drop off, you know, on Tuesday morning. Mom's got her, you know, renegade motherhood event. And then, you know, when I pick them up at the end of the day, my oldest, especially seven and a half now, she'll be like, how's your renegade motherhood event? Mom and I even have said things like, you know, my goal for this one is x, and she'll be like, did you do it? Did you hit your goal? And I think it's a good it's an important message for kids to kind of, you know, like, know that, like, hey, it's goals. And just getting like, this sort of family buy into your vision, so that when the inevitable comes up of like, but I really wanted you to do drop off, you can say like, Hey, I hear you, and I know, and I I love when I can do drop off. But remember like that, you know, this is what, this is what mom's job is. This is what, you know, this is what my my mission is, and this is what I love to do. And it's really cool. And I hear them like, you know, talking about it and asking me questions about it. It's, it's really, it's really fun, you know, so and it creates this family conversation. It's not just mom's business. It's really like, it's our family, it's our family business, because we're all playing a role in our own way. So I love those. I

love this. We're, we haven't formalized it something like this yet in my family. But we, you know, we like, we sit down to have dinner and we sort of go around the table and like, how was your day? And, you know, so forth, so and again, trying to explain to that five and a half year old that my, most of my days, days are online and zoom. So I had to become a little more creative in describing, right, because I do a lot of interesting stuff. Yeah, it's all at the desk. It's online. It's on, you know, on these remote meetings. But look, there's like, lots going on. So it was a challenge for me, right? Like, because I can't tell him every day I had five phone calls, and he's like, oh, okay, Mom, how many phone calls did you have today? You know? So, like, you kind of have to be a little more creative with it. Now, I also found this is helpful in context of personal finance. Is my husband and I have been doing something called Money dates for quite some time. It's just a specific conversation we have on weekly basis, just to chat check in with, you know, ourselves in terms of, like, what's going on with our finances. We both are business owners. You know, there's a lot of variations in terms of what income might look like and so forth. Like, do we do we have an unexpected expenses? Those are, like, some basic questions, right? That we check in, what's the credit card bill looks like? So it was like something really simple that we wanted to have in our pocket. And so lately, we've been like, Okay, well, let's bring our son, Liam, into the conversation, right? He's starting to learn about money. He's got his tooth fairy funds and so things like that. So, you know, this money date, right? Kind of opens up. Doesn't have to be just, just the person you know, your spouse or significant other. It could be a whole family where you talk about, you know, these kinds of things, and what you're doing right, and what the expectations could be. So I'm, I'm kind of expanding it, if this family thing, so we'll see how it kind of helps. But I want my son to know these kinds of things right, so that he understands why we go to work, right? Like, why do we have these businesses? Yes,

right, right? And no, it's important, and it's stuff that they're not getting taught at school usually. So, yeah, yes,

yes. I know you mentioned that too. So talk a little bit, I know you have, you have this community of of mom who are business owners that you've built, talk a little bit about, like, I'm just curious, like, what are their most, like, biggest pain points? Or what are they, you know, struggling with when they're joining your community, and how it helps them solve those things?

Yeah, I mean, it really runs the gamut. You know, oftentimes it's marketing and visibility, and just like getting your name out so that you can get more clients, sometimes it's talking about what you're doing. I actually did a workshop last week where we helped. We worked on compelling, like a creating a compelling kind of pitch for a networking event. But it really also kind of turned into, you know, things you can use on other marketing materials, whether it's a website or social media content or email or, you know, blogs or whatever that is. I really love working with business owners on messaging. It's just really fun for me. And like, kind of the storytelling of of, you know, the business and and then I think another piece is this kind of, like bandwidth and time and juggling act of of motherhood, and I do think that's a part of why the community is growing as it is, because I'm really clear about some you know, I have live events that we run in Colorado, and then we're starting to expand it to other markets and cities, and that'll be a bigger push in 2025 and then I also have digital community that's available to anybody in the US. Anybody in the US. But I find that for the live events, especially, what people really like about it is it is this sort of come as you are. So if you're having a great day, and you get up and everything is in your favor, and you're able to, like, throw on a nice shirt, and whatever that is to you, whatever makes you feel good, great. If you walk in and like you're late, or you've got coffee spell over you, or you're bringing your baby and you're feeding your like, cool, cool. Like, it's kind of a judgment free zone. I often will say, this is a sorry free zone, because I find moms especially apologize for so much stuff that we shouldn't be apologizing for to begin with, and yeah, and so, so really just creating this community where it's like you are, show up wherever you Are, because if you need some motivation and some inspiration. You can get that. If you need a tangible piece of, you know, of actual support, you know, a very specific thing, you can get that. And if you really are just kind of, like, I just want to come and meet a new person, like, you're going to meet a new person as well, or deepen an existing connection. But, you know, I find when you put a group of moms together, especially moms who are also entrepreneurs, like, a lot happens in a really short amount of time, because we are good at, like, coming in and just really, like getting shit done, because we got to move on to the next thing you know, because we know we got to get back to our office, or get back for a client, or we have to be done with our work day, to go pick up our kids and all the things. And so, like we, we come in to get something done, and it's, it's really fun to see, like the seeds that are planted, and then start to bloom and and just, you know, a place where people really just kind of come no matter where they are, whether. Are just starting off, or they're more seasoned, because we can all learn from each other too, and really trying to cultivate a space where we can, we can do that, you know, like, where it's not about just like me being the expert and telling you what to do. It's like, you know, you should really go talk to Jess, because she is, like, killing it with her social media stories. That's not me. That's not my superpower. But like, You should go see what Jess is doing, you know, at her Instagram account. Or, you know, you need a mortgage person. There's a couple great mortgage people who are in this room right now, I'm not going to be the person you come to about money, you know, but, like, but real estate or money. Like, there's some great people in this room. And so it's also that piece, like, we can't be good at everything, and so we need to surround ourselves with people who are good at the things that maybe we're not as good at.

Yes, I also find that women are moms, right? They're they're still willing to share. Because at times you have, you somehow have to figure it out yourself. Maybe it's just me, but like, once I figure something out, and once I know it's like, you know, here's my real life experience. I'm telling everybody. So I think that's how the these powerful communities are built. And yeah, I, you know, I benefit from it, from them, tremendously. I mean, you know, not just professionally, but in personal life as well. So tell us how, what is the name of your community, and how can folks connect with you there?

Yeah. So if you you can go to, excuse me, renegade motherhood.com, and all of our events are there that are live. So right now, most of we have going out Colorado. I'm actually going to Phoenix next week to kind of get a get a group going there, with more expansion coming. But we also have a digital community like I mentioned, and that's called the mother mind collective, and that it's not like a Facebook group. It's actually hosted on a different platform, so you have app access, and you can access it through your, you know, computer however you want to access your info in that we do digital networking every month. So we do, like a zoom call every month. We also do coaching hours every month, you can pop on and just bring something that you want to kind of spit ball around, or get some, you know, different eyes on, or just kind of work something out, or just listen and contribute and and then I bring in some guest experts as well into that to really people that I've worked with that have helped me, or that just have, like, a, you know, a unique offering that can, again, is like something that, I think, you know, like visibility, social media, content creation, PR, things like that. And then there's also just a whole, you know, discussion board, and you can message and stuff like that. So, so that is really exciting. I definitely wanted something that, you know, having gone through my previous experience with, you know, my live community being impacted by COVID, I didn't want to only rely on live events, even though that is what I think as an actor, really fuels me. And what I really love to do is like, be with people in person. But I also really wanted to have something where people who maybe live in smaller, you know, towns and stuff like that, who don't necessarily have access to, like a lot of different business owners, especially moms in business, can connect virtually and digitally too. So yeah, I have kind of founders, pricing available through the end of 2024, for that. And it's been really fun to see what's been like, you know, happening there in that space, too. That's

awesome. That's exciting. We will share this in the show notes, for sure. And I think it's, it's worth checking it out, whether you're a mom in business or you want a mom community, because I think, I think it sounds like you're going to find both there as well. So that's that's awesome. Any last minute thoughts before we close?

No, just thank you for the work you're doing. I am a big believer that we need more money in the hands of moms doing really good things, because we can solve a lot of problems and create more good in the world. And so I yeah, I just want to shout you out, because it's what you're talking about. The stuff you teach on your show is really applicable, and it's often the topics that people don't want to think about, you know, estate planning and long term care and just all those different things that I've heard on your show that you know, when you have kids, especially, you have to be, you have to be thinking about it. It's not just about you anymore. So, so thanks for having the hard conversations that I think we often want to avoid. I appreciate,

yes, I appreciate that. I mean, same goes for you. Thank you for, you know, bringing those circles of moms, because maybe there's somebody out there right now still kind of thinking, like, do I start this business? How do I do I do it? Like I have, you know, full responsibility, and I don't have time, like, all of those objections can be over overcome

with the right you're not meant to do it alone, exactly, with the right

community, with the right resources. So I feel like all of this, yeah, goes hand in hand, and I Yes, I think for the same reason, you're right. Thank you for. Highlighting nobody on the podcast had said it yet. That makes me, makes me want to continue showing up for the show every week, just because I'm just like, you, you know, he's equally passionate about, like, yeah, I want families to have good understanding of what their money is all about, right? Because, especially if they're raising, you know, the next generation, and that's, like, critically important. So, yeah, it's, it speaks to compassion. But thank you so much, Jen, it's been, it's been a pleasure.

Thank you. I enjoyed our conversation.