Episode 133: Autoimmune Diseases: Triggers and Treatments with Whitney Morgan

You are listening to Physical, Emotional and Health Secrets with your host, Amanda Elise Love. Whether you're dealing with autoimmune problems, sleep issues, trauma, mindset blocks, or any other health issues you are in the right place. In this show, we cover all of these topics and more. Amanda is a registered holistic nutritionist who teaches women how to cook allergy friendly, healthy meals and integrate a holistic approach into their lifestyle. She has made it her life's mission to teach others who are suffering, how to lead a more holistic life. We are so excited to welcome you to the show. Now let's get to improving our health.

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show. My name is Amanda Elise Love and I'm a registered holistic nutritionist. And today's guest is Whitney. So welcome to the show.

Thank you, Amanda. So happy to be here.

I'm so happy to have you. I always ask this question. What is your backstory on how you got into what you're doing today?

Yeah, so my backstory is really my health journey. And in 1997, I got diagnosed with my first autoimmune disease. By 2010, I had collected three more additional autoimmune diseases. So I come from a very traditional medical family, my dad was a surgeon, my mom and or nurse, lots of doctors in my family. So I was kind of raised in this environment where medicine has the answer to everything. So like a lot of people out there, I was walking that conventional medical path going to specialist after specialist. And, you know, unfortunately, I think for a lot of women with autoimmune disease is the same sort of story. Conventional medicine doesn't have a lot to offer us, except for symptom management if we're lucky. So at one point, I was sitting in the office of the head of urology, because I was diagnosed with interstitial cystitis, that was one of my diagnoses, super, super painful bladder, autoimmune disease. And, and he said to me, this isn't going to kill you, but you'll die with it. And it's gonna get worse. There are things that can help manage the pain, but nothing really can be done, you should join a support group. So that was my, I guess, hitting rock bottom moment. But it was also the moment where I was liberated. It was like, Okay, I am not staying on this path of specialist after specialist, there has to be some other way forward for me, because he really was saying what they were all saying. He just said it in a way that really shook me to my core, right. So that was the moment where I left that office. I didn't know what I was going to do. But I knew that I was going to find some other way. So that was my entrance into western herbal medicine, naturopath V, homeopathy, Chinese medicine, I mean, all of these different modalities. I was starting to investigate to see okay, what are the these modalities have to offer? And is there something there for me? During this process, I started receiving acupuncture at my local student clinic at the acupuncture school. And for anyone who's had interstitial cystitis, I mean, the pain is just unimaginable. And I was getting so much relief with acupuncture, I was blown away. So I fell in love with the medicine. I went to acupuncture school myself. I also was doing a lot of other kind of self teaching self research stuff and other areas, just trying to apply everything that I was learning to my own health, and I was getting better. And I graduated from acupuncture school and I went to Functional Diagnostic Nutrition certification. And which was, it's a great compliment because acupuncture and Chinese medicine is in my mind, kind of one of the original functional medicine disciplines, root cause investigation. And when I went to Functional Diagnostic Nutrition certification that's more of a modern functional medicine type modality where you're doing testing and getting hard data. And having both of those tools in my tool belt really just transformed my own healing trajectory. So long story short, I don't have interstitial cystitis anymore. Wow. My Hashimotos is in complete remission. Celiac disease in remission. My gut is now healed. I have my healthy gut lining again. And psoriasis, which was the first autoimmune diagnosis I received, I'd say it's 95% in remission that flood hours during times of stress, but super, super manageable. And none of this was possible in that conventional medical paradigm. But it became possible once I shifted my path forward. So that's why I'm here. And that's why I do what I do today, because I'm just super passionate about, I want to make sure that other women don't have to spend 15 years and completely change their life and dedicate six, seven years to learning everything themselves. I want to compress that timeframe for other women, and let them know that you don't have to identify with your diagnosis, your diagnosis isn't your destiny, there are alternatives, there are ways that we can reverse engineer these things and feel better get our lives back. Right and not be defined by illness. So that's, that's why I'm here. And that's why I do what I do.

I love how you said, not be defined by our illness, because as women we yeah, we get defined by that illness. Yes, we're getting something from other people. And that's not good, either.

That's true. And you know, that's something I talk about with clients, sometimes it's this concept of the no SIBO effect. Where, when you're going to see doctors, and I'm not dissing medical doctors, absolutely not, right. But sometimes we get these messages that feel kind of hopeless, right? Like that, like nothing can be done. And, and then we also get a prognosis of this is how your disease is going to progress. This is probably what you will experience in the future. And we invest in that. Right. And so the no SIBO effect is the opposite of the placebo effect, right? We take on those messages and internalize them. And then that is a potential future for us. Right. So part of healing, I think, and getting on a different path is also being conscious of those messages that you've internalized, that aren't necessarily true. But you've taken them on honest truth, right?

Yeah. And I think a lot of times we internalize things that are not true.

Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Without a doubt.

How did you start to get better? What were some of the things that you were doing to get better?

Yeah, well, interestingly, I didn't realize I didn't find out I had celiac disease until 2010. That was my last diagnosis. But knowing what I know, now, I had it all along. It's just that I'm one of those silent celiacs, where I don't have the symptoms of traditional celiac patients, I don't have any gut issues. So it was found as a fluke, right. So I believe that it really was the celiac disease that kind of started everything. And that's why I wound up. Right, right. So coincidentally, as I was trying all these other things, of course, I was doing a lot of different things nutritionally, and one of the first therapeutic diets I tried was the body ecology diet. And that is a gluten free diet. It's not marketed that way. It's just that's one of the things that you have to eliminate. And honestly, you have to eliminate most grains except for a couple of approved grains. So just by going on the body ecology diet, I went completely gluten free. So that gave me a break from that celiac progression that I wasn't even aware was going on yet. You know, so I was doing things that were working, not really knowing exactly why they were working until I got that final diagnosis. And another example is, after the body ecology diet, I went paleo, right. And so again, there's that really gluten free grain free. So I was removing a lot of these underlying triggers, that I didn't know were a problem for me until I learned about the celiac disease and all of the other foods that cross react with gluten, and it was just really good luck that I started on this paleo journey that eliminated all those things for me. So some of the ways in which I was getting better. I didn't know why they were working until later. Great. Yeah. But also Chinese medicine is based on root cause investigation, as is functional medicine. So I was also doing a lot of testing and evaluation of different systems like gut health, liver health and working on those underlying systems to bring those back into balance, right. And the benefits really paid off, just kind of working on those core pieces. And that's something that I think is also missing and conventional medicine. Because you know, when you go when you get psoriasis, you go to the dermatologist, you don't really investigate how your gut or your liver is connected to your psoriasis. But it is, but that's just not the way conventional medicine operates. So it wasn't until I was in the alternative medicine world that I had people or experts in my life going, Oh, well, you know, yes, rice is on the skin, but from what we understand of functional medicine, is influenced by what's going on in your gut and what's going on in your liver. Right. So we need to pay attention to those areas in order for your skin to get better. So it's just a completely different paradigm.

I would like to know, since I haven't had anyone ever talked about Chinese medicine, what is Chinese medicine?

Yeah, well, you know, it's over 2000 years old. Chinese medicine is there's so many different aspects of Chinese medicine. So there's nutrition, movement, stress management, so various lifestyle factors. Herbs are a big part of Chinese medicine and acupuncture. Acupuncture is probably the most well known rule of Chinese medicine. But what it boils down to is that all sources of disease in the body emanate from imbalances in qi and blood and what we call essence or Jing, it's another aspect of your lifeforce, basically. So when you have deficiencies of Qi deficiencies of blood or stagnation of blood or chi, then you get these symptoms and disease starts to occur, right. But the Chinese doctor understands, it's called a root branch philosophy. So in Chinese medicine, the doctor understands that the symptoms show up in the branches. But the causes of those symptoms show up in the soil, they really originate from the soil. So a good doctor is always tending to the soil and looking there, because they know if they do that, then the branches kind of take care of themselves. So the tools that Chinese doctors use our herbs, and lifestyle and nutrition changes, and acupuncture, um, in order to affect change in your chi and your blood and your essence and those things that give us vitality.

That's very cool. So I have a question. What kind of clients do you like to work with?

Well, I keep my acupuncture and my functional practice separate from each other. So acupuncture is a hands on thing, right? And I volunteered at a local community acupuncture clinic here in the city where I live, and my functional practice is all virtual. And so in the functional world, I mainly work with women with Hashimotos, and other autoimmune diseases, but Hashimotos is really my main niche. Okay. It's so predominant, I mean, Hashimotos is more prevalent statistically than type two diabetes right now. So there's just a lot of Hashimotos and a lot of unmanaged and mismanaged Hashimotos. So that's really my client population, but I still get people I think, because of my story. And because I'm what I call an auto immune collector, I still get women coming to me with other autoimmune diseases. So yeah, so that's my main client population autoimmunity.

So what is Hashimotos for those who are listening who don't know what it is?

Sure. Well, Hashimotos looks a lot like hypothyroidism on paper, and symptomatically. So women with Hashimotos struggle with fatigue and weight gain and hair thinning and dry skin, PMS, anxiety, depression, feeling cold all the time, which are all the same symptoms of hypothyroidism. So, but in the terms of Hashimotos, that's an autoimmune disease that's taking place at the thyroid gland. So yes, it's about the thyroid, but it's not really a disease of the thyroid. It's a dysfunction of the immune system that is impacting the thyroid. So that's where the symptoms are showing up. So women with Hashimotos are still going to have low thyroid hormones, right? They're going to have low T three, low T four, which leads to all those symptoms. But in addition to that, they usually also have elevated thyroid antibodies, which in indicate there's some tissue destruction going on at the thyroid. So that's different than your general hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism can be the result of nutrient deficiencies, chronic stress, adrenal dysfunction, that spills over and impacts the thyroid, but you can bring that thyroid function back online just by addressing the stress supporting the adrenals addressing the nutrient deficiencies that are there, then that thyroid function just kind of, okay, comes back online and everything works again, right. But that's not true with Hashimotos. Because autoimmune disease requires triggers. So in the case of Hashimotos, the most common trigger is gluten. And then there are other triggers that are very common, like Epstein Barr Virus, and H. Pylori infections or other parasites are different bacteria, heavy metals, things like that. But in my practice, I find that about 90% of the women with Hashimotos have an underlying gluten sensitivity that they're unaware of.

I would like to know like, so how many people do you believe like, the percentage wise, have some sort of like gluten sensitivity?

Well, the research tells us that it could be up to a third of the population. That's a lot.

That is a lot I have, I have a gluten sensitivity. And they said, the wellness chiropractor said it was the highest is in his practice at the time. And I was 21 years old. And this was in 2011. And I got it from both parents.

Oh, so you have the genetics for celiac disease as well.

I don't know. I don't remember if he said that. But he said like, I don't have celiac, but it's really close. And it was high. And okay. And then I also found out I had a soy, egg, and also dairy. Yeah. So

Yeah, gluten sensitivity is really prominent in the auto immune population, not just Hashimotos. So and just the chronic illness population. Let's just put it that way. Right.

Yeah.

1% of the population has celiac disease, and up to 30%, has non celiac gluten sensitivity. But I think most people with gluten sensitivity really go undiagnosed because they don't have gut symptoms. Right? They have other symptoms, like headaches, or anxiety or inability to get pregnant or maintain a pregnancy, or, or they have low iron, or, you know, they have these other things going on. But no gas, bloating, diarrhea, or none of that stuff. So unfortunately, there's still this assumption that if you don't have digestive issues, when you eat gluten, gluten is not a problem for you. That's just not true. So So that's part of the reason why people don't get diagnosed. The other reason I think, is because when folks go to their doctor and say, Hey, I think I might have an issue with gluten. Can we test for that?

Nine times out of 10. What the doctors are going to run is a celiac panel. So they might look at the genetics, you know, do you have HLA DQ two or DQ eight genes, and then they look at D aminated, Gliadin. They might look at transglutaminase. Two, these are antigens that are specific for celiac disease only. So not for gluten sensitivity. So if they run a celiac panel and it comes back negative, which 99% of the time it's going to, then they'll say, oh, no, you don't have a problem with gluten. But that's not true. What's true is you don't have celiac disease, right, but you can still have gluten sensitivity. So my point being is that a lot of people are getting tested in the wrong way. The other problem is that even if you have celiac disease, you can test negative for celiac disease depending on where and the truedepth trajectory of of disease progression you are. Right, so it gets complicated. But there is thankfully there is a functional lab out there called the wheat Zoomer and that's from vibrant wellness labs. I personally think that right now it's the best test on the market for non celiac gluten sensitivity for wheat sensitivity, and even to screen for celiac disease. It has two panels in the test that are specific for celiac disease. And when you order the wheat Zoomer, you can also add on the celiac genetics so you can get this really comprehensive assessment of how your body's response to wheat, gluten to wheat germ. And are you on that celiac spectrum? And do you have the genes for it? So that's really the best test out there. And it also has an intestinal permeability panel inside of it, too. So you can see how leaky is your gut at the same time? Yeah, really, really nice test. I really think it's kind of the gold standard right now.

Right?

That's a really great thing to, like, do and stuff. And I think that's what people need to do if they feel like they're not getting that right answer. And you could do it by yourself and everything right already.

Yeah. Well, you have to, I don't think you I don't think the lab sells directly to the to the public. So you'd have to go through a practitioner that has an account. I haven't, you know, most functional practitioners have accounts with labs like this, naturopathic physicians as well. But yeah, it costs the lab itself cost $200 out of pocket, and it's not covered by insurance. But still, it's a great price for the amount of data that you get. And, you know, it's not the only I mean, I think that's the baseline. That's where people need to start at the very minimum is to order a wheat Zoomer on themselves. But if you really want to find out how complex your gluten issue is, you would order some other tests to like they have a corn Zoomer and a dairy Zoomer, right, because corn and dairy cross react with gluten. So a lot of people who go gluten free, because they find out they're gluten sensitive, and then they don't feel better. It's because they're continuing to consume corn and dairy and their immune system thinks that that corn and that dairy is the same thing as gluten.

Right. That's interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. Because

I don't even think about, yeah, the corn is something we don't really think about.

Yeah, corn is big. And in my practice, I run Zoomers, on a batch of foods Zoomers on every single client no matter what. And I'd say 90% of the time. Women who are wheat and gluten sensitive are also corn sensitive, and they've developed a cross reactivity between the two.

That's interesting.

Speaker 1 00:22:23

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What are your thoughts on like, when people say, Oh, can I add gluten back? Stay off of it forever?

Yeah, well, I'm kind of a hard ass when it comes to that. Because the science just tells us You can't. One of the reasons is because gluten is one of the only foods we know of, to which the immune system creates these memory B cells. And that's just shorthand for, hey, it remembers forever, right? This is hardwired into your immune system. So it doesn't matter how long you stay off gluten, how well you heal and seal your gut. Gluten is one of those foods that you cannot reintroduce. Because your immune system, once it creates those memory B cells will always recognize it. So I know there are folks in the industry who disagree with that and say, Oh, sure, you can reintroduce gluten when you heal and seal the gut. But that's not what the research tells us. You just can't. So I tell my clients, gluten is forever. So you need to be gluten free forever. And make your peace with that. You know, and that that can be a difficult journey. But the quicker you make your peace with that, the more happy and glorious and healthy your life is going to be down the road.

And you've been off it since 2010. Yes, for like 12 years. And I've been doing it for like a love it coming up. And I have friends that I've met in Austin and they'll be like, well, like they're like, Oh, I'm gonna cheat and you really can't cheat.

No, you can't cheat. And one of the reasons why is because gluten sets off an inflammatory cascade that can last up to six months in the body. So because it takes up to six months for those antibodies to clear the system. So as long as you have elevated antibodies to the peptides of wheat and gluten, you're in a state of inflammation and your immune system is very unhappy and kind of hyper vigilant. So if you have a little bit of gluten on your birthday and a little bit of gluten at Thanksgiving and a little bit of gluten and Easter If you're inflamed all year, and the problem is if you have an autoimmune disease, then you're running the risk of never getting into remission. You're always going to be in a state of autoimmune progression, even if it's low grade, because you're cheating every now and then.

And that affects like how you feel everything like that. And and I had a guy friend, he's like, Oh, I feel horrible. He's like, Oh, and I had gluten or something. I'm like, well, that's

Yes. It's almost like a hangover. Because I had alcohol. It's like, well, yeah, yeah, of course, you're gonna feel like crap when you have a little bit of gluten, right?

It's like, even like with whatever, you have sugar, whatever. It's not just Glidden. It's whatever you're eating and stuff. Yeah. I know, a lot of times. People are like, I went gluten free. But then it's like, how well did you do it?

That's the other thing. And I'll hear that sometimes I tried gluten free, and I didn't feel better. So therefore, they assume that they don't have a gluten issue or whatever. But truly gluten free diet, you might not see the benefits for four or five or six months, because of the antibody situation I was just talking about, right? It takes that long for the body to stabilize. So you have to give it at least four months minimum, but maybe six, so four to six months, don't even assess the effects, you know, the efficacy of gluten of going gluten free until you've been gluten free for four to six months. The other thing is, most people aren't as gluten free as they think they are. Because they think they can just create this gluten free bubble around themselves. And go about business as usual, going out to restaurants, using the same kitchen as other members of the family that are all continuing to bring gluten through the kitchen on the cutting boards and other cooking utensils. So they're getting little micro exposures all the time, but they don't know it. So what I say to my clients as once you've gone gluten free, and you've eliminated it from your house, then we have to test you six months later with the wheat Zoomer and make sure that you're not getting continuing to get exposed that you really have been successful at eliminating it. Once we determine that yes, you've been successful eliminating now you still have to run that wheat Zoomer once a year, just to keep tabs and make sure that nothing is sneaking into your environment because it could come with a new personal care product that you start using. Right or some new brand of a condiment, you know you switch everything. It's in everything. Yeah, it is soy Yeah. And corn, corn isn't everything.

That's like things like tea and stuff. Like it's crazy.

Yeah, things like sometimes the tea bags themselves are contaminated. Yeah, right. Not the tea inside the bag. But the tea bag. So it's all these little things that you don't think about? So

Says on the packages, oh, say Oh, may contain are in a like facilities with same like equipment or gluten or something? No, say dairy. Yep.

That's another thing. Food manufacturers know that if they if they put gluten free on the label, their sales go up. Right. That's why I've been

Gluten free right now. And I'm like, well, some of the things that are naturally disclosed

Right, like milk, you know, it's like on a carton of almond milk or a carton of cow milk or goat milk. It'll say gluten free. It's like, well, yeah, death. But But then it says, you know, manufactured in a facility that processes wheat. So it's the end, they're not testing. It's not like these products are certified gluten free. If they're certified gluten free, at least you know that they're batch testing those products. So they have less than 10 parts per million of gluten. They're not 100% gluten free, but they're gluten free to the point where most celiacs don't have a problem. Right? So get certification if you can, but just be very wary that just because something says gluten free on the label. All that means is that it doesn't contain an ingredient that specifically is sourced from gluten. That's all that means. But it can be manufactured with tons of stuff that has gluten in it can be really contaminated.

And I think a lot of times with gluten free, we just think, Oh, that's a healthier product. But it's not look at the ingredients that if you can't pronounce the gradients then you shouldn't be having it.

Right. Like the processed foods, most of those gluten free things. They they have a lot more fat, a lot more sugar. Sugar that. Yeah. And other grains that cross react with gluten. Yeah, because they want to make them taste as good as possible. But that doesn't mean they're healthy.

No, yeah. And I've read a good book. And it talked about, like, how the manufacturer companies became how big they become, and how they advertise it. It's called fat, sugar. And I think salts. Yeah. And it's incredible to hear, like, what they do, and specifically inserted decades, where we had, like, oh, that phrase, or we were so worried about not having fat. And then like, certain phases, like it changes from like, decades. Yeah. Which is, right. Interesting.

It is interesting. And also, I think that speaks to manufacturers try to find ingredients that have addictive properties, right? Because it's not that they want to provide you with the really quality food product, they want you to keep purchasing it. So they need to put things in it that compel you to purchase it.

Yeah, you get addicted to paste and the salt is

Yep

You get addicted to salt and sugar or fat, make good.

And that can happen with gluten to gluten impacts the opioid receptors in the brain for a lot of people. So when people go gluten free, sometimes they can feel pretty bad for a few weeks, they can have body aches, and headaches and irritability and kind of flu like symptoms. And that's because those opioid receptors are screaming for their fix, and they're not getting it. But that's a real addiction. It's a biochemical kind of addiction. So that's it doesn't happen to everyone who goes gluten free, but it happens to a lot

Is there like one step people should do if they're starting with their gluten free journey, after they find out that they're going in free?

Well, I think the most one of the most beneficial steps you can take is to eliminate gluten from your house. So it'll make your life easier in the long run. And it will improve your outcomes. What I see happen in my clients and just in the industry is that most people who go gluten free, they just do it for themselves. And if they share their home with other people, they're still coming into contact with it. So they're really not getting the benefits from their gluten free efforts. So why put all that work into going gluten free, if you're actually not eliminating it from your environment, because it's, it takes a lot of work. And it takes a lot of behavioral change. So if those changes aren't going to be successful, because you're still getting exposed, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So that's the most impactful thing you can do is just say, That's it. Our house is gluten free. You want to eat gluten, you do it outside the house. That's the way it's gonna be.

I like that. Luckily, I had family who was like, we're gonna do it with you. Yeah, that was great. And I think that's the biggest thing is like telling your family, oh, if you want me healthy, the only my best and we all have to do it as a family.

Absolutely. And one thing that I see a lot because most of my clients are women, and most of them are mothers is there's a mindset where they don't want to inconvenience their children, they want their children to be happy and to be able to enjoy the foods that they've become accustomed to. So they're more inclined to make two different kinds of dinners, two different lunches to write a separate meal for everybody. But so I encourage my clients to test their kits because in my experience, as goes the mother so go, so go the children, right. So if you're gluten sensitive, and we know you're gluten sensitive, chances are your kids are too it's just not showing up in the same way. But it will eventually but they'll have different problems than you have. They might have learning problems. They might have behavioral issues or anxiety issues. Have you had what?

I had learning problems?

It's really common with gluten issues. So and, you know, like, for me, my gluten issues didn't show up until I was in my 30s my symptoms. But for children now, they're showing up much earlier. And I don't know if it's because the environments more toxic, there's a lot of glyphosate in the environment. I don't know what it is. But my generation, we didn't feel the negative effects until our adult years, but those kinds of health issues are happening at younger and younger ages in the gluten sensitive population.

And I like how you said the making one meal and stuff for the parents. And that's what my sister does. She has just had her second baby and stuff. That's what she does whatever the grown ups are having the little ones having.

Yeah.

And I think that's, I don't know, if it's society or something that we feel like we, like our kids are supposed to have something not the same as as or what?

Well, I know, that wasn't the way it was when I was a little kid I ate whatever my mom and dad put in front of me, right?

Was for us, and, and we like fruits, vegetables, we never grew up, like not having us as like, I of course, we probably had like, kids stuff like macaroni, but it wasn't like, all the time or stuff like that. And it's funny because like, I feel like, even with kids now. They get like, they bring like a little lunch pail with all their snacks. But now the snacks are healthy.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then kids do a lot of trading at school and stuff, right?

Well, it's like a lot of crackers and cheese. And I'm like, I mean, some of that. Sometimes they have fruit. But I mean, like, wow, we're really not teaching our kids healthy.

Yeah, yeah. And I think particularly for the gluten sensitive crowd, it's, you're so much more effective at going gluten free. If you focus on whole foods rather than processed foods, right. So you just like shop on the perimeter of the grocery store, not down the center. And if 90% of what you're doing is whole food based, not only are you getting, you know, nutrient dense food in your diet, but you know, your whole family is going to be healthier, and you're less likely to get contaminated rate and also your consumption of a lot of other chemicals goes down. So that can be difficult for folks who they lead a really busy life, they're used to eating out a lot, or they're used to fast food or they're used to just quick things to throw in the microwave or whatnot, that it can be a real tough transition to eliminate gluten and increase Whole Foods, because that's a major lifestyle change. But eventually, I mean, it really does pay off.

Yeah, it's just I feel like it's taking the time to like, do your grocery shopping. You don't even have to go out to do your grocery shopping. If so, like ordering groceries is simple. It is a good way to not or get some things because if you forget it, you forget it.

Right? Yeah, ordering your groceries. I mean, there's even, you know, some people like these pre prepared kind of foods, subscriptions, and there are manufacturers out there that will provide AIP compliant, Paleo compliant, gluten free, those kinds of dietary restrictions that you if you need to, if you're the kind of person that you just got a really intense professional life, and you can't be in the kitchen cooking those things. There are companies out there that will provide those things for you.

Yeah, and I feel like it's such a big change from like, 10 years ago when

Yeah

Like, I remember we had a family member in the hospital when you had to go to Applebee's. And like, there was nothing on the menu. So we're like, right, we just get some like chicken and some vegetables. And it was it. Sometimes that's where you have to do even

Yeah

Even if it's like be Mike. There might be gluten or whatever. Sometimes you have to, but now there's like so many restaurants that are like totally allergy Free. It's incredible.

Yeah, there are a lot of options. And I mean, I think where it can get difficult is if you travel a lot, and you're not familiar with restaurants in your area. But if you're eating out in your hometown or the city where you live, what I usually suggest is find two or three places that are reliable, that have really good gluten free menus, where you can talk to the manager and the staff. And they'll tell you, what are the things that they do in the kitchen to reduce the risk of contamination, they get to know you, you get to know them, and you have enough exposure to their menu that you can get to the point where you feel safe eating there, like you're not going to run the risk of getting contaminated. But then again, you always should bring your gluten enzymes with you. Right. So there are very specific enzymes that you can purchase, that will degrade the gluten protein by about 90% and make it less harmful for your immune system. And for your gut. It's not a pure 100% protection, but it'll at least offset any of the adverse impact of maybe getting a cross contamination in a restaurant.

That's actually a great thing to do is ask all the servers and actually talk to the managers and stuff like that. Well, thank you so much for this interview.

You're welcome. My pleasure.

I will put all your links and everything in the show notes.

Okay, great. And I'd love to do this again. Sometime. It's been fun talking to you. I can talk about gluten all day long.

I love this topic because this isn't on a topic I've covered before. So this is great information for this audience.

Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me. Amanda.

You're so welcome.

All righty bye.