Overcome Your Objections and Find Strength in Fatherhood Support | 003

But today, we're going to talk about this context of what it's like to join or decide to join a dad circle, support group for dads, whatever you want to call it. But the main context I'm going to name here before we start our time together, is that, on average, it seems like most men shy away from asking for help, especially from other men. And during this call, we're going to explore what each of us had to wrestle with, and getting over the bat chasm, and moving into a support circle for fathers. So today, I'm joined with by Braden and Adrian. Hey, guys. And we're just going to jump in starting with a meditation. So feel free to join us. And of course, if you're driving, do not close your eyes. But for Britain, and Adrian and myself, we will. So yeah, we can just feel ourselves in our seats. For now, just notice the quality of your breath, no need to change anything just yet. Notice your posture

and then allow yourself to make a couple of adjustments in your breathing and your posture, whatever feels good to you.

And see what you notice about the space around you, you feel into especially your back the space right at the edge of the skin of your back, see if you can bring your attention there.

And then just notice the weight of your body as it makes contact with whatever chair you may be in or if you're standing your feet on the ground or both.

You ready? Come on back to the group. And we can kick off with just to check in, let's do our fatherhood headlines, who would like to jump in first

I'll take off, I have brain, I have a 14 year old. And we're in the throes of managing our way through high school. So we've we've changed the streams of education from a in depth program that was adding more work to his plate just for the sake of keeping him busy. And we switched over to a general program just because the stress level was too high for him. So I've been watching the stress level come down. And I've watched the confidence rise, which has been a real treat, especially with sports season coming around, it's baseball season. And the confidence is coming back for sure. The challenge right now is he has had some difficulties with one or two of his teachers. And I'm watching mum take a lead in solving those problems for him. And I would like to see him step up and you know, find resolutions and work on his own problems rather than having advocates do it all for him. But at the same time, I really do appreciate that she's willing to make those calls and and advocate for him. So it's a fine balance between supporting him and doing things on his behalf. Without him nice.

Adrian checking in, I've got two young boys seven and four. And similar to Braden, we're dealing with the throes of sports seasons coming up, we just started baseball for my oldest and I've signed up to coach which has been a whole learning experience all on its own. You're dealing with a lot of small things, but they feel bigger and they all kind of pile up together. So you know, joining schedules with a seven year old and a four year old and kind of feel like I'm always racing from from one activity to another and they overlap. We've had a bit of challenge getting our youngest into as many things as our oldest. So you know, conscious that it might feel unfair, you know, to him as he's becoming more aware of fairness and those kinds of things. You know, also dealing with, you know, changing of schools, we moved and so this summer we're we're switching to a different school for my oldest, which he's quite unhappy about. He's made friends and he's used to his routine there. So he's quite resistant to that change for We're sort of trying to ease him through that process of closing one chapter at this school, he's out here in the coming coming weeks and month or month and a half or so here. So yeah, and then the other sort of thing that compiles is really just the busyness and in screen time, and how those things interact and feeling like, you know, we're allowing too much screen time and in order to have some time to ourselves, and to take care of things around the house that we need to do and trying to juggle all that with all the activities, it just feels like a lot. I mean, with that.

Not checking in for me. Yeah, it just kind of sparked something for me there, Adrian, a lot of watching the same movie again and again. And in my case, I actually really like a lot of the movies my kids are into. So I know some people aren't like that into watching frozen 475 times. But for me, I really liked the animation of the storytelling. So we've been into Encanto recently, and the music's really good. So you know, listening to music at the car, it's all that's been kind of a nice element that's been joined by the new sunshine at this point of the season. So getting outside more, and also aware of like, My daughter, every now and then she'll confide in me things that are hard for her at school with a friend or whatever it isn't. So my kids are my daughter's six, my son is three. And it's really sweet that, like, she'll take a moment to talk to me about things and I have to try really hard not to solve her problems for and otherwise, I got my brother and his girlfriend visiting, not staying in our house, but staying nearby. And it's just so much fun to watch them reconnect, because it's been a while. It just my kids love these uncle and aunt visiting. And yeah, there's a lot of joy near right now about that. So come in with that. Cool. Yeah, so this context, asking for help considering joining a support circle. We just thought we'd share our own experience around that. So I'm gonna pass this first question to you guys. What did you have to overcome to join a dad circle? In other words, what were your initial objections both internally, and practically,

I can jump in. When the context of it came up, I was doing some one on one counseling. And that had been really effective for me. And so that's where the idea of it joining a data rad rad dad circle came from. And so I jumped into it or agreed to it quickly knowing the success of the one on one counseling. But then once the time came for the first sort of meeting coming around, I found I was really nervous. I was really thinking about, what do I say? How do I say it like, I've never been in a group of men talking, you know, in a group and also uncomfortable speaking in public. But I found when I got the mic passed to me, I panicked. You know, I felt like I didn't know what to say I didn't know anything about the format. So I found it quite intimidating. I found, you know, almost that fear almost overtook my desire to connect, even though that desire to connect was strong. And I agree quickly. So. So yeah, I think not having a skill set of of how to talk to men, made it feel really, really overwhelming for me.

Sure enough, thank you.

What I had to come to terms with to join the group was actually going from the idea of facilitating it to participating. So I learned about red dots from a partner I was living with, she went to high school with Sean and saw his post about starting the group. So I reached out to Sean myself and asked if they needed more facilitators. And the discussion was Why don't you come join us participant for the first round, see if it's something you're into and and if you want to continue on. So that was the switch in my mind as instead of leading a group going in and being being a participant in sharing my experience. I hadn't had a lot of dads in my circles in my in my world prior to this. So it was it was a refreshing experience to be surrounded by men that were open, that were vulnerable, that were authentic and willing to share an experience with each other.

I'll say for myself, I know there. I have had experience in men's groups. So I didn't have that piece. I was like I don't know how to talk but there's still the fear of like going into a new group of people. I think I had thoughts like what if I don't like these guys? What if they're too needy or they talk too much? I think thoughts like it might not be okay for me to take this time out for myself like it Is it okay for me to be selfish in that way to not be available to my family for these notes every two weeks on a Monday night? And I thought like, I might be better off just using the time I do have for catching up on sleep. So those are some of the thoughts that we're not making it up and easy all the way. 100% Yes, even though it was a fairly easy yes, for me, too. But another version of this question is like, what was the perceived risk? And maybe there's another level deeper here we can explore? Yeah, you know,

I think the risk for me was a weird way of being judged, even though I don't know these people. You don't when you first join into this meeting. But I really, when it comes to Dad issues, you know, and challenges and things, I've never really expressed those honestly, outwardly to anybody else. And so there was this element of, I don't even want to call it shame so much, but it felt uncomfortable, to be honest about the challenges, you know, it's easy to tell everybody how awesome things are about, you know, raising kids, because it is it's an amazing experience. But the bad parts of it, you kind of don't talk about. And that was really, really the the barrier for me was like, am I going to be honest in this? Or am I going to kind of just, you know, give the surface level incidence. And that part was overcome quickly once you got into the group and how open everybody was? And how similar the challenges were you soon as somebody else spoke, I was like, Whoa, I've that's how I felt and somebody else, totally different perspective. Oh, I felt that too. And so it quickly, it changed from being a scary thing, to being an empowering thing where I was looking forward to the next meeting is going, I have something to add, I have something off my chest, that that pivot came quickly.

I'd have to double down just reiterate what you said, Adrienne, coming into the group as data after divorce, I'm used to presenting a front that I've got parenting under control. Like it's, I'm used to ensuring the people around me are not worried about my child, there's a threat of losing time with him. So sharing the challenges and the struggles is not something I ever did publicly, until I found this group. And having a safe space where I could be honest about like, it's fucking hard. Because there's times I don't enjoy it. Those are things I didn't want to share with the people that were in what I thought judging my parenting skills. So to have a group of men that weren't judging me, but were there to just hear me out, it was definitely a relief.

Yeah, I can echo that too. For me, part of there is perceived risk was, I think, also back to that concern about am I being selfish. And the thought came up for me of like, what if I'm off in this call, and my wife is having a hard time with the kids, she's gonna hold that against me. And then I'm going to have an issue with her around it. Or on a more practical level, like, we'll just end up being a waste of time and money. And I can't say that I have an abundance of those things as a new parent. So those are risks. On some of me. Another version of this question we can talk about as what did you wonder about, in anticipation of joining a dad support circle? What were you wondering about?

For me? Yeah, it was really about the format. You know, going into it, I was really, I had no idea what to expect. So your mind kind of wanders a bit on like, what it might be, like, you know, and I was really a little bit nervous about, like, were they going to ask me some big open ended question where you're kind of, like, expected to have something prepared, like, you know, I was really unsure of what it would be like, and so when, when it actually happened, and it was, it was so, so much easier. The format was really, you know, comfortable. And everybody, you know, even just starting with a quick check in, that was just so short. It was like, Okay, once you do that, you're in, you know, you're you're involved now, and it's not such a big barrier, but that was my big wonder for sure was, what's the format? Like it was intimidating. It was, you know, you know, it's a large group on a video conference. You know, how is this going to work? I was just gonna flow is it gonna be awkward? Is there gonna be awkward silence. It just felt uncomfortable. And I was wondering how that was all gonna go. And I was pleasantly surprised with with the way it unfolded.

You know, honestly, I was wondering about how soundproof my room was, because if my son was at home with me while I'm jumping on one of these calls, how real and how much can I actually share if there's a chance that he's listening in or can hear them conversation? That was that was a concern for me

to get on.

It was for me to get with To the lesser with my kids, but also with my wife. Yeah, no, just like my gonna say something about our relationship, and she's literally hearing me through the door. It's really good one Braden. Yeah, yeah,

I didn't think that was real for me too. Thankfully, I have a more dedicated space for the calls now. But before, I mean, I always knew I could, like go into my car if I had to, but it wasn't an easy choice to try to do a call from that space. So yeah, similar concerns about am I going to be overheard? And will that impact the openness of my sharing another

advocate share another one with you? Yeah, I was having what I consider to be an older child, just in comparison to people in the group, I was worried coming in that I would be further ahead, per se, in the parenting experience, and not have as many people there to contribute to my challenges because they're dealing with younger kids. So it felt like I was a little worried that there was offset my advice is far removed from where everybody else is in the group, because of the age difference.

Yeah, I know, for me, I add just the thought, like, Do I even have room to add something to my already full life? Like, my experience as a parent is like, when people ask me, How are you doing? I try not to say I'm just busy, I try to say I'm full, like life is full. And that tends to be my standard answer, because that tends to be true. And to think of adding something like Okay, now, I'm also going to do this thing every few weeks during a call, be in connection with guys on a chat of sorts in between adding things doesn't always feel realistic, so and then just generally, will I benefit from this, but I resonated with you guys were saying like Adrian, especially about the format saying I'm a very process oriented person. So like, joining a thing and wanting to know, like, Okay, how does this work? When do I talk? When do I not talk? How much should I talk? How deep should I go? I will point to all those expectations that are probably in some of our concern about fitting in and also making the most of the space as it's intended. No last question here about this topic. What for you essentially made that decision of joining the men circle or the that circle possible?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's maybe two parts to it. So I'll answer it in this way, the decision to join versus the decision to stay. And so the decision to join for me, you know, it was a leap, but it was it was also tentative, I still I knew that I could get out of it. If I really didn't like it, you know, I knew I could just Oh, make an excuse and kind of, kind of dodge it. So that one would felt easier. And like I was curious. And I was yearning for, you know, conversations with people that were having similar experiences. And, and so I wanted to do it, I took that risk. But then between the time of making the decision, and the first meeting was where all those thoughts and kind of doubts crept in, and I went into that first meeting, like they'll give us a shot tonight. And we'll see how that goes. The decision to stay really was based off of the excellent job that the guys did, of building a container in that first meeting, that time that they took in the first 10 minutes to really set the ground rules. And really make it clear how this would work and what the process was, I still had fear when the mic was passed to me, and it felt uncomfortable, but it it felt safe. And the things that were shared, you know, with the rest of that meeting, were so relatable, that it was no question that I was going to continue to do it by the end of that first meeting.

I have to say that the the mindset of investing in personal development always comes back tenfold. So if you know I was going to the gym, I was reading books I was trying to meditate. And it's like, I'm not doing anything specifically to improve my parenting mic, but it's the area that I'm most passionate about. So here's one opportunity where I could step in and possibly learn something new or maybe just absorb some advice from people around me. It was a new opportunity that I hadn't had present. So it was easy to make that decision to jump in a decision does the decision to stay came from the 15 to 20 minutes before Cole starts feeling that anxiety or that pressure of like, do I really want to do this? Do I have the time for this? And feeling a little bit of heaviness? Like even if I'm bringing issues and challenges like do people want to hear my issues like I don't want to bring all this heavy deadweight to a call. And I often jumped on a call feeling resistant and feeling a little bit way down. And every time we got off a call, I felt light. And I felt like I was back in flow, like something had moved to the barrier within me. And so the decision to stay was really easy, because I came off these calls feeling energized.

Yep. Thank you really all that. I noticed, like, Braden, what you said about the investing in personal development. And I know, in myself, and when I've had conversations with other dads, how easy it is to put parenting at the end of the list of things that might get developmental energy. And I don't know if it's a cultural thing, like, if I put energy into the thing, I have to see money back, like as to be sort of business oriented, or somehow related to, I'm gonna get, you know, the benefit of my income increasing from this development versus just my general happiness or my ability to create a happier home, or a happier experience, or doesn't even have to be happier. Just some time we're connected, when my kids like this are really valuable things that have nothing to do with economics. Cool. Well, I appreciate you guys jumping into this. I think it's a really interesting topic. And I just appreciate you speaking from yourselves. Just anything to say, as a matter of checkout at this time. Well, I

can, I can throw in that I just got a message from my daycare, and my youngest son is puking. So Oh, good. You go pick him up now. So there's life in real life. But But no, I think, for me, the barriers that are there, I'm sure there's many different barriers that people experience and, you know, different forms, you know, but I can definitely say from, from my own experience, that overcoming that barrier, and getting into those meetings, and sticking it through is been a massive improvement in my life, and in my parenting, how I show up as parents, so I'm thankful that I didn't let those barriers blocked me from participating. That's

got to be the most authentic sign off to a dad's podcast, my kids puking I gotta go. I just love that. I'll just quickly say one thing, and the only thing that's not gonna happen, when you join a dad's group is becoming a worst parent. Like you can't go backwards from being authentic and hearing about how other people are handling their parenting.

Yeah, yeah. And I'll give the flip to that, which is, I know, sometimes my biggest fear can be like, am I gonna go so deep into this, and now I'm gonna actually allow myself to face the thing that I've really not wanted to look at. And that can be an extremely uncomfortable place to be very lonely and depressing place. And then of course, I've always experienced the benefit of getting over that hurdle as well.

Yeah, as you're saying that I'm reminded of like jumping on calls with a challenge or something that's weighing heavy on me. Having expressed it in the group, I can then be present and face that challenge with less resistance after the call. Like there's, there's just a different energy around those things that I brought forward.

Yeah, yeah. It's just that expression, whether it's, I mean, even if one in the world decides I'm never going to join that circle, having a space to express whether that's writing or some other way to get it out, so it's not just living inside me. That's always been important. 100% Oh, guys, thank you so much. We can leave it at that. See you all next time. Thanks, Matthew. Thanks.