Edie Sue with Lainie

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Hello friends, welcome to radical resilience, a weekly show where I Blair Kaplan Venables have inspirational conversations with people who have survived life's most challenging times. We all have the ability to be resilient and bounce forward from a difficult experience. And these conversations prove just that, get ready to dive into these life changing moments while strengthening your resilience muscle and getting raw and real.

Welcome back to another episode of radical resilience. It's me Blair Kaplan Venables. And today's guest is extremely special. We go way back, way, way back. And actually I might need some clarification from Lainie about how, how far back it goes. I actually grew up going to summer camp. It was like my, my time I had a very chaotic upbringing with my dad's addiction and like a single parent and, you know, just not like the most comfortable environment at home. And so so when I went to my summer camp neighbor, Jewish community camp, it was like Blair time, and it was the best time and Lainie Rosner, who is our guest today was my camp counselor. And you know, now and now in life, she's a mom, a potter teacher. She lives in Winnipeg, Manitoba. She had endometrial cancer diagnosis in 2020. And then had a successful treatment. She continues to thrive and play with clay. She loves exploring outdoors with her pup her baby her hobby, and strives to live life to its fullest, which I love because, well, you got you got one life. And it sounds like you know, when people go through something challenging like Lainie did, they really you know, understand the importance of living every moment to its best stability. And so, today we're going to talk about how after she lost her mother to breast cancer when she was 20. She basically grew up expecting to get cancer and she eventually did, but it wasn't in the way that she anticipated. So we're going to talk about all things to do with Lainie summer camp, BB cam babies, pottery, cancer, she's writing all the stuff,

all the stuff.

Oh my god. Okay, wait, so what was read you remember? Was it you and Marnie?

Yes, I think so. Cabin nine.

Was it two weeks or three weeks?

I think to know, maybe three weeks.

So this is the early 90s Just for everyone out there. But neighbors Jewish community camp was like the best most mount it still is the most magical place.

And I took the baby there for family weekend and saw

that. And Aaron and Michael were there with their kids. And actually I was invited to be with them. But those I was in Croatia. I don't have kids. And I've decided next time there's a family weekend and I'm available like I'm not traveling. I'm going to come and just be with one of my friends family. So

do it that I did that. Here. Before Edie was born. I borrowed my niece. My nine year old meet again, so I'll borrow some family to hang out on the island.

Yes, I love it. So Lanie you lost your mum when you were 20. That's so hard.

Yeah, it was really difficult. Yeah, my mum was diagnosed with breast cancer when she was 32. The first time so I went to three. And my brother was maybe one. But she had successful treatment then. And we we talked about it, we knew that she'd had breast cancer. We knew that she only had one breast. We used to joke that it was the apple juice because I drink a lot of apple juice as a kid. And I ended up getting my first feeling when I was three, because I drink a lot of apple juice. So we joke that one of my mom's breasts was for milk. The other one was for apple juice. And it was the apple juice that was gone. Oh, yeah. Well, that's weird. But anyway, so yeah, we knew that it was it was always there. You know, we didn't necessarily say cancer. But we knew that was, you know, our thing that we had in the family. And then I guess it was 14 and a half years later we were celebrating that, you know, you're still was to be all clear at like 1415 years. And then my mum was diagnosed with a new primary in the other breast. And so that was shocking. And we had to Well, I, you know, as a child, I didn't get to participate really in decision making. But, um, you know, my parents talked to the oncologists. And there were a few options, but it sounded like that the results would be the same whether she had a mastectomy like she did the first time, or whether she had chemo and lumpectomy, I think I'm not, I'm not completely positive. But she went with a mastectomy. And then it spread the next year. And it was, like really traumatic, obviously. I mean, seeing somebody who's, you know, such as your rock in the family to get sick, and I see you've experienced that as well. Like, it's yeah, so. Um, but like, my mom always had a really positive attitude throughout, and really made her most of all of the days that she had. Um, so yeah, I was in university, I guess, at the beginning of university when it happened, and everybody's celebrating their 18th birthday. And I'm worrying about my mom that are 19th Birthdays, and I'm worried about going traveling, but I still went because that's, you have to live your life.

Right? Like, it's so hard. It's a balance. It's like,

yeah, so I had the opportunity to do some traveling around the time, like, Well, my mom was sick. And my mum and dad insisted that I go and embrace those experiences. So

and so when you were 20, she passed away? And did you? Like why did you expect to get cancer? Like why was like, walk me walk me and the listeners through that, like thought process?

Well, losing a person to breast cancer when they're having somebody in the family who's diagnosed with breast cancer, when they're really young. It's a clue that there's potential, but there's their hereditary connection. But I didn't have and there's a lot of breast cancer and ovarian cancer in my family. So I guessed, that's what was the ultimate teacher was going to be. But I didn't want to take the genetic test, because I was so young. And I thought, What am I going to do with this information? How am I going to, is it gonna be? Is it going to make my life more positive? Am I going to embrace every moment? Or am I going to be terrified? Me, because let me be not funny. I'm a teacher, like you mentioned, and I teach biology and English and art, and sometimes cycle, I've thought of a whole bunch of different things. But in biology, there's a whole genetics unit in grade 12 curriculum. And there's a section about genetic testing. And we talk about all of these hypothetical situations, and I asked my students to make a decision, I say, if would you take the test? Would you not take the test? How would taking it or not taking it impact your life? So I remember having an appointment with my GP, around that time, and he said, Well, what would you tell your students to do if they were in your situation? And I think he expected me to say, you know, take the test.

I tell them to run.

That's not what I did. They have to make their own decision. Right. So you never took the test. I did take it last year, because I had cancer. Like fuck, sorry, can I Sorry?

Yeah. Okay. Sorry. So you took it last year, which? And do you took it? And you said you found out you had cancer? Or was it? Did you take it because you found out you had cancer? Or did you find out you have cancer? You took the test?

I took that such can so confusing, right. Okay. I took the test to find out if I have the hereditary breast cancer mutation, because I'd had endometrial cancer in thought I'm already I'm already facing cancer. At least if I take the test and I can do something preventative.

So that's sort of where I am where I'm prepared to do something preventative. Because if I don't know, hey, let's back that up for a second. Backup. Okay, so we're backing up far? How far to 2020 Yeah, and you learned you had Okay, so from when you were 20, you decided, you know you're gonna get cancer one day, but it's show What up not in your breasts? Correct. And so, so 2020 comes around. Okay, so my husband and I met in 2016 got married until at the end of 2017. Like we're older.

And we wanted to have some fun first, even though we're like in our 40s. And then we finally decided, okay, let's do this. Let's try not to not get pregnant. And so we decided to try the fertility route. Because, you know, because of material, they didn't want it to try to make sure that we could produce a healthy embryo. So we went to the fertility clinic, did a round of IVF. And I think we started with like, 17 eggs, and we chose to get genetic testing done on them on the embryos. I don't remember how many there were maybe nine, and none of them were good. So we found out after one round, that there weren't any good embryos, this was New Year's Eve 2019. That's a awesome start to the next year. And then we decided, Okay, let's try again, because of my age, and statistically, there was hope that there would be a good one. So we did another round the next summer. And we had one good embryo. So that and that's Edie stew. That was the only good embryo. Yeah, she was a good embryo. I have a beautiful picture of the embryo.

So you had so you had a good embryo,

having an embryo we're prepping my body with the hormones to do the frozen embryo transfer. This was in November 2021. And I got an appointment, the doctor called to have an in person appointment at the beginning of December. And I thought, Oh, my God, an in person appointment is bad. deed for the transfer. But on phone, oh, no, I'm lying. I'm confused. Too many appointments. This was a phone call with the fertility clinic, they were going to give me an appointment for the transfer. But the doctor called and said that I had endometrial cancer, and that we weren't going to do that I'd have to make a decision that the cancer had to be treated before even considering doing a transfer. So we'd highly Wait, how did they know

you had that cancer?

Because there was a an optional test. It was a uterine biopsy. They called it a uterine receptivity test, which allows you or which allows them to determine the timing of the embryo transfer and hormone dosage and all of that stuff that I don't know enough about. So. There are the experts. So yeah, we decided to take this optional test, and they found abnormal, like totally abnormal cells, not even pre cancer. And it was full of cancer. So thank goodness, that was stage one. So just in my uterus, it hadn't gone anywhere, but the cells were actually low grade at that time. And they said we've treated with hormones. But eventually I'd have to have a hysterectomy. So we treated with hormones and I was a I gained 20 pounds and was moody and exhausted and sweaty and miserable. And then that summer, because after you're diagnosed your follow up every three months, so that summer I was in for an appointment, and they did another biopsy and found that the cells are high grade. So like what fuck to hormones I'm taking you're supposed to shrink the cancer cells, but they may have made room for high grade cells to start growing. So then suddenly hysterectomy was urgent. And that's like the opposite of what you want when you're trying to baby.

Where was Edie Sue this whole time sitting off in a fridge?

Sitting off in a freezer? Yeah. Oh, freezer. Wow. So I guess when I was when I had the initial diagnosis, I waited a little while and then I texted my friends and said Hey, does anybody know of anybody who'd be open to dropping a baby for me? This was the mass text. Yeah, like you're all friends. Because some of my colleagues are younger and in mommy groups and I thought maybe maybe one of their friends isn't back at work yet and they would be open To being pregnant again for somebody else. But one of my dear friends who's my age, called me that night and offered like was totally wild, completely unexpected.

You had a friend carry Edie? Yes. Yeah. And

you hear all kinds of different stories about surrogacy? And do you hear all kinds of nightmares trying to match up with somebody or having to go international. But this was like one of my closest friends out of her goodness, out of the goodness of her heart offered to change her life for nine months, and in fact, your whole family's lives. Right. So she was working and gold star. Absolutely. So, yeah, and the whole family is amazing. So you got a hysterectomy? Yes. And then I'll well my friend was pregnant. With Edie. With Edie.

Girl your story. Okay, so you lost your mom, your mom had cancer when you were three, and then came back died when you're 20. You knew your cancer, but you thought it was probably breast refused to get tested? And then you're trying to get pregnant? Yeah. Went down

the route. Optional $1,000 test. Like thank goodness, we did it. Yeah. Like that's the biggest takeaway, otherwise, it wouldn't have been found.

So do you. So that tests that the found out you had cancer was an extra $1,000?

Yeah. So what would have happened if you didn't? Like?

Like, how, how come that test with $1,000? Like, is it because it was a fertility test?

Yes.

Just for you listening out there and not Canada. We have medical coverage here and not for IVF. So like if I think if I go get like biopsied and stuff like that at the hospital, they don't charge us. So that's why I'm asking her about $1,000. Because as Canadians have different medical than you out there.

I don't know if, like, I don't know why somebody would be sent for a uterine biopsy. Hmm. It just so like,

okay, so what went through your mind when you learned that you had cancer?

Well, it was are you fucking kidding me? I'm not ready for this. This is not what I expected. And, like that part of my life, like 2020 I mean, suck for everybody. Right? COVID was horrible. But my I lost my Grammy in May, and then lost her dog in September, and then got this diagnosis in December. And you were in a shitstorm? It was yeah, it was a that's gonna be my book. My book that I will write eventually pandemic, pandemic and other traumas, as I was joking about with my friends, but I think it would be a good title. For what is it the title again? Well, it's not actually written, but if it does get rich in the pandemic and other traumas, yeah, no

one's steal that title.

Yeah its mine,

I have one I'm working on too. But I don't want to say the title allowed, but I'll talk to you after.

That's okay.

You know, your, your your story, like you're writing, you're gonna be in the global Resilience Project, book number two, so people can dive into your story a bit more. And, you know, it'll just like wet wet the whistle for when you're, you know, the pandemic and other traumas come out.

In my retirement,

oh, my gosh, okay, so I can't so Wait, did your genetic testing tell you that you have the gene for breast cancer?

So they tested the, like, my fate took out my it was a complete hysterectomy. So uterus, fallopian tubes and ovaries. And they tested it for some for something called Lynch syndrome, which is, I guess, connected to endometrial cancer or uterine cancer, but not connected to breast cancer. So it's a totally different, different thing. It's like, you just can't you have that sample can't be tested for the other things.

Yeah. You know, it's really interesting. Like, just to interject, first of all, thank you so much for sharing all of this, like that is the journey. And like, I, in a way, like, I know how you were thinking because like my aunt died of ovarian cancer, my whole family got tested for the gene but me because I was like, Oh, no one else has it. And if I get it, I don't want to know if I'm gonna get it because whatever. But then when my mom died of pancreatic cancer, she didn't even get a full biopsy like learned she had cancer died three weeks later, like went into the hospital just never came out really. And they it was just very traumatic. And I'm like, Okay, so what's brewing inside me? So, um, for me, I kind of felt I feel like that it's not like, and maybe it's not cancer, but it's like not if but when. Because I also like I'm a vintage millennial and born in 85. My friend's parents are all getting sick people that are my age and younger getting cancer and then dying really fast and like having my mom, my father in law and my dad, I'll die in their 60s Dave and my mom both dying from cancer, my dad from COPD and lung cancer, but that was self inflicted from addiction. Really is like, okay, like, instead of me sitting at the edge of my seat waiting, like, when am I gonna get it? Or what am I gonna get? I'm just kind of trying to live my life the best I can. So when I get that news, if I get that news, you know, like, at least like I want to, I just want to live my life instead of just, you know, no, like, it's just so crazy, because I can't imagine losing my mom at 20 Like, I mean, I lost my mom at 35. And I've part of me

it's still too young. It's yeah, when I was, I thought I was more. I was a very mature 20 year old.

Oh, do you grow as soon as your as soon as a parent dies? You grow up? Yeah, yeah. And adults, you know? And yeah, and like, as soon as, as soon as two parents die, you're, you're you crossed a new level of living. But you know, and also with the fertility, like we were struggling to, and we tried to get pregnant. We were told we probably needed met, like, I had to go down to a fertility clinic at the time, I lived in the mountains and Pemberton and I would have had to go to Vancouver and my friends, like, go get tested, like, I want to get pregnant with you. And like, I was like, I'm just gonna dry my summer and like, stop trying. And so then finally fall came and she's like, Oh, he tested like, come on. So I called them and they like, you need to call back when your period comes. I'm like, okay, and it just never came. And I was like, I'm pregnant. But then I miscarried. And then everyone died. So that was cool. You know what I mean? It's like, I've been pregnant once for eight weeks. That was that was an experience. Oh, but like, it just so interesting, though. Like the way like, in a way you're trying to get pregnant with Edie Sue saved your life because you went through and found out.

Yes, absolutely. So that's the silver lining.

Ah, you see, Oh, happy baby.

He's a happy little superstar. And she's named after my mom and my grandma, is your mommy at your mamita My Baba, my grandma and my father were both eatest. And my mom was Susan. Oh, and she's also Sherry Shoshana. And so there are a few other names there. So one is my surrogates name. And then Susana is means a rose in Hebrew, and that's skin's grandma's name. Oh, I love it. And also, Shawna Gourevitch. Who do you remember her?

I don't know. If she was older. People her after we record.

Yeah, yeah.

Is that who carried the baby?

No. Shana passed away when she was 19. Sorry. Okay, I should maybe this part needs to be deleted. I don't know.

No, we're not deleting anything. Okay, so

yeah, let's find our family. Like, I guess our family friends were like our best friends growing up. They had a daughter and a son. Like around my age. Shawna was just a little bit younger than me. And then my brother and her brother were born on the same day. And our families were super close. And we did everything together. And Shawna was diagnosed with cancer. I'm not sure which one when she was three, or two or three. And it was the same time that my mom had breast cancer the first time so our families went through that together. And then they were diagnosed together again. I guess in 96 or seven, so Shawna was 18 or 19. And my mom was 4847 48. I think so our families went through this together, even though

you lost your mom and you're one of your best friends around the same time.

Right? Yeah, the group which is we're in Chicago, but we still had that really close connection. Yeah, yeah, it's Yeah,

answer so you know, no one like teaches you or prepares you and like how to like get ready to grieve or like, what to do when your friend or parent or sibling or someone you love dies and like that's part of the reason we exist the global Resilience Project because we need to normalize this conversation, of miscarriage of death of injury, like we don't need to put on a smile and pretend everything's okay. Like, one day it might feel like it's okay. And you will get through it like we have to wear that's what we do. We're resilient. But to Yeah, it's so like, I don't know can and it's interesting with cancer, like maybe Now because social media is out there, and you can see what everyone's doing, and you can see like, not just like when your friends get sick, but like when they post that a friend of a friend gets sick, you know, you can just kind of see it out there. It's just more visible, I think. But also, maybe I'm just more aware because I'm sober and like, I find that since I've been sober, I'm just paying more attention. Like I pay a lot of attention. And I'm spending a lot of time in having conversations like this with you, but with people who've gone through stuff and we are the walking wounded, we are the heat we come into this world and we experienced the highs and the lows, and some of us have a lot lower lows than others. And you know what, we need to be there for each other because we don't have to go through this alone. And I think it's really beautiful that you know, EDC was named after your mom and your friend and your bombas your grandma's, you know, in the Jewish religion. So Laney and I like and we met at Jewish summer camp, she was my camp counselor, she's Jewish, I'm Jewish. And it's a tradition to name you know, a baby after a deceased family member. And I don't know if you know this story, but right before my mom died, we probably don't know the story. But But right before my mom died, she was like sleeping like literally two days before she died. And she like, opened her eyes and looks at me, she goes, so Blair, what are you gonna name your daughter, but at this time, I knew I wasn't going to have kids because as soon as I knew my mom was going to die. The idea of being a mom died with her like a traditional in the traditional sense of being a mom. So I'm like, told her Okay, I'm going to name her Sharon. I don't know what else to say to my dying mom. And I was like, So then one day I had this idea. I'm like, Okay, well, one day I'm gonna get a kitten. And I'm going to name the kitten fray, because my mom's Hebrew name was Frida. So in November, I bought a little ragdoll kitten. And I named him Frey. So my mom's namesake is a Ragdoll Cat.

Sweet and it still works.

If you met this cat, it makes so much sense. Okay, we can talk forever. So how are you doing today? Are you in remission? Are you cancer free?

Yes. Yeah. cancer free. Counseling. Feeling good.

Yeah. Amazing. And, and you make pottery and you you have a pottery show coming up. So if you're in Winnipeg, first of all, Amy and I are talking about maybe doing some sort of collaboration. But regardless, first of all, you need to go check out this pottery show. If you're in the Winnipeg zone. It's the 17th of August, I'll put a link in the show notes. And if this is way after August, and you have no or you're nowhere near Winnipeg, you should check her out. How can people find you? What's your Instagram handle?

It's fired up pottery. WP G

that will also be in the show notes. Yeah. Fired up. pottery. She's really talented. Player. Yeah. And I, it's cool that we've reconnected. You been through a lot, losing your mom having cancer yourself, you know, the surgery having a friend surrogate? What advice do you have for someone who's going through any of these situations or all of them or has a similar story?

Well, I think focusing on the president, being in the moment, taking deep breaths, getting outside. You know, those are all really important things. Take care of yourself physically, emotionally, and mentally. You know, however, whatever that means to you. But my mom's favorite thing, which in my story is enjoy life. It's under dress rehearsal. And I've really tried to live that. Because you don't know you don't know what the future will bring. So enjoy each moment. Whatever that means to you.

Oh, I love that. I love that. You have a quote remote somewhere. Yep. A piece of pottery on a mug.

That could be a sweet mug. It and it is yeah.

It reminds you the Red Hot Chili Peppers song like can't stop. Like one of the last lines is this life is more than just a read through.

Yeah, totally. I know that word.

Yeah. Like that's like one of my favorite lyrics from them. Yeah, so beautiful. I love it. So go check out her pottery, go check out her show. If you're in Winnipeg, I'm assuming a lot of you Winnipeggers are gonna listen to this because hopefully lady shares it with her friends, but I'm going to share it too. And, you know, I appreciate all of you for tuning in. And thank you so much for coming on as a guest.

Thanks for having me. It was starting with you. So fun.

And, you know, life is hard. But it's also beautiful and we don't have to go through it alone. That's why we exist. The global Resilience Project is currently working on our second book ladies in it. I'm in it. A whole bunch of other people who've been on this podcast are in it, a bunch of interviews coming up are in it. And we still have some space for stories. So if you've overcome a challenge and you want to share your story, which can help someone else navigate their challenge and it can help You heal, we want to hear from you. You can click a link in the show notes or you can reach out to me. Blair at Blair kaplan.ca. You know, we're here to help you be resilient. The global Resilience Project is a community and safe space for you to share your story and it's a container for big feelings. You know, sometimes it's really lonely when you're like it, you know, your rock bottom, but it doesn't have to be we'll hold your hand. We are that lighthouse in the storm. And you know, it's okay to not be okay because friends just remember you are resilient.