Oct. 29, 2024

A Guide to Relationship-Driven Sales in the Age of AI | RR282

A Guide to Relationship-Driven Sales in the Age of AI | RR282

How are AI and social selling changing the way we connect in sales?

Join me as I sit down with John Golden, a globally recognized sales and marketing thought leader, to explore the evolving world of sales. John shares how social selling has become an essential part of the sales process, blending relationship-building with smart strategies. He emphasizes that sales today isn’t just about making transactions—it’s about creating meaningful connections, and AI can be a powerful tool when used thoughtfully.


We also talk about his journey as a brilliant podcaster and how his natural curiosity has driven his success in business and life. John shares how his experience in Taekwondo has shaped his approach to discipline and focus, teaching lessons that have impacted both his personal and professional world.


Highlights:

  • Social selling has become an integral part of the modern sales process, not a separate skill.
  • Building strong, authentic relationships is more important than focusing solely on transactions.
  • AI can enhance sales, but personalization and authenticity are crucial for success.
  • Curiosity is a powerful trait that drives success in both business and personal growth.
  • The discipline and respect learned through martial arts have shaped John’s approach to leadership and sales.


Connect with John:

Website: https://www.pipelinersales.com/


LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johngolden/


Twitter: https://twitter.com/RealSalesPOP


YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SalesPOP


Sales POP! Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sales-pop-podcasts/id1455305326


In appreciation for being here, I have some gifts for you:

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile:

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by taking the

3 Card Sampler – you won’t regret it.


AND … Don’t forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and be eligible for my

complimentary LinkedIn profile audit – I do one each month for a lucky

listener!


Connect with me:

http://JanicePorter.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/

https://www.facebook.com/janiceporter1

https://www.instagram.com/socjanice/


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Transcript
Janice Porter:

John. Hello everyone, and welcome to this



Janice Porter:

week's episode of relationships rule. My guest today is John



Janice Porter:

golden, coming to us from sunny California, and I am quite



Janice Porter:

excited to delve into some sales and marketing topics with John.



Janice Porter:

He is a globally acknowledged sales and marketing thought



Janice Porter:

leader, speaker and strategist, and has conducted over probably



Janice Porter:

more now, but over 1500 video interviews of thought leaders



Janice Porter:

for his podcast and online sales magazine called sales pop. And



Janice Porter:

his use YouTube channel and his audio podcast channels, where



Janice Porter:

sales, pop lives, is rated in the top 2% of most popular



Janice Porter:

popular shows out of 3 million plus globally ranked by listen



Janice Porter:

notes. I know I got it at 2% once, but I haven't checked it



Janice Porter:

lately. So that's pretty cool, though. So welcome to the show,



Janice Porter:

John.



John Golden:

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited



John Golden:

to do this.



Janice Porter:

Oh, you're welcome. I'm, first of all, I'm



Janice Porter:

going to back out, back up a little bit, because I hear that



Janice Porter:

little Irish accent. I know that you were originally from



Janice Porter:

Ireland, correct?



John Golden:

Yeah, that's right, originally from, from Dublin,



John Golden:

from Ireland. Yeah, born bread and buttered, as we like to say,



John Golden:

well, and I'm from, yep. And I said, and I came here about 27



John Golden:

years ago, during the.com era. So that's how I ended up here.



Janice Porter:

I never left, right?



John Golden:

I've never left. No, yeah,



Janice Porter:

I I'm from England, so I've got that United



Janice Porter:

Kingdom piece in me as well. So, but I was a kid when I came over



Janice Porter:

here, so I grew up here, but love sunny, sunny California. I



Janice Porter:

was just there a couple of weeks ago visiting family, and you're



Janice Porter:

in a beautiful spot in Carlsbad. I think it is so, so amazing. So



Janice Porter:

I want to dig in about something that I saw on your on your bio,



Janice Porter:

and it dates back a little bit, but I know it's probably



Janice Porter:

something that is important, I think still, and more so today



Janice Porter:

than ever, and that is what we call social selling. And you



Janice Porter:

wrote a book called social upheaval, how to win at social



Janice Porter:

selling. So I'm curious, how did you get into that what? What



Janice Porter:

prompted writing that book for you,



John Golden:

it's an interesting it's interesting because I wrote



John Golden:

the book. It's a number of years ago, as you said now, many years



John Golden:

ago now, when social selling was kind of in its infancy and



John Golden:

people were trying to grapple with the whole idea of of



John Golden:

LinkedIn and of social of social networks in general, and how do



John Golden:

you use this and and so I kind of wrote the book to help people



John Golden:

get a grounding in some of the ways that they could approach,



John Golden:

approach social selling and approach building their their



John Golden:

online presence in order to be able to take advantage of it.



John Golden:

And I think the thing today, Janice is like, social selling



John Golden:

is just selling. Now it's just part of selling. It's not a but



John Golden:

in the early days, there were early adopters who definitely



John Golden:

got a jump on a lot of their colleagues because they they



John Golden:

adopted social selling and and the thing, the thing about it at



John Golden:

the time, which was really interesting, was, you know, so



John Golden:

most sales leaders or sales managers, they wanted you



John Golden:

either, you know, pounding the phones or you're going out and



John Golden:

visiting clients or doing the idea of watching one of their



John Golden:

sales people, if they were in the office on LinkedIn or on



John Golden:

something, you know, posting stuff and commenting was was



John Golden:

counter intuitive at the time. It's like, well, why aren't you



John Golden:

calling people? Why aren't you upset? And they're saying, I am,



John Golden:

well, show me the, show me the result of it. And they're



John Golden:

saying, Well, it's, it's a gradual thing, and it's only



John Golden:

part of an overall process. You know, in many ways, it's just



John Golden:

getting a, you know, a foot in the door, sort of, he, hey, this



John Golden:

is who I am. So that's where he wrote. It was to try and bridge



John Golden:

that gap at the time between what was, you know, known as



John Golden:

traditional selling and social selling, and as I said, they've



John Golden:

all just morphed together, because at the end of the day,



John Golden:

it's just selling.



Janice Porter:

Well, that's, that's very true. However, I



Janice Porter:

think there, there's that distinction between



Janice Porter:

transactional selling that still creeps in, even on social media,



Janice Porter:

like, oh, yeah, yeah, on on LinkedIn in particular, because



Janice Porter:

I, I often hear from from my clients, about people getting



Janice Porter:

pitched all the time, and how do they, you know, and it's still



Janice Porter:

there. And people that, even though they're not pounding the



Janice Porter:

pavements, so they're, they're hitting their numbers by, you



Janice Porter:

know, copy and pasting the same email or having a robot do it



Janice Porter:

for them, right? There's one of those things. So I think in at



Janice Porter:

least for me, social selling is more about building



Janice Porter:

relationships. How do you feel about that? No, I would agree



John Golden:

with. With you. And I think that's what selling is



John Golden:

really about. Unless, as you said, unless you're in a maybe



John Golden:

you can, you know, B to C, or you're in a very transactional



John Golden:

sale where, where you rely on volume, as opposed to repeat



John Golden:

business. But when you get into the B to B realm, yes, it's all



John Golden:

about it's all about relationship, all about



John Golden:

relationship building. And back when I wrote the book, it was



John Golden:

interesting. David Meerman Scott, who is an author of



John Golden:

marketing books, well known author I had, I had a



John Golden:

conversation with him, and he told me, he said, things are



John Golden:

changing now. Once upon a time when you reached out to a



John Golden:

prospect or whatever, you know they would obviously, they would



John Golden:

Google and research your company, not so much you as a



John Golden:

person, because there wouldn't be much as you of you as a



John Golden:

person there. But that changed with with social media and



John Golden:

LinkedIn, suddenly they were going and researching you as a



John Golden:

person. And most people didn't realize that, and they and they



John Golden:

were, you know, a lot of the social media was sort of in its



John Golden:

infancy, so when people started to be researched themselves. It



John Golden:

was all sorts of either nothing was coming up or stuff that was



John Golden:

coming up that you probably rather not come up, not not



John Golden:

presenting you in in such a great light. And I think that's



John Golden:

absolutely and I think it's a fundamental it became, and it is



John Golden:

a fundamental piece now of you're you're going to be



John Golden:

researched. So how are you, how do you present online? Like, how



John Golden:

do you, how are you representing yourself online? Those things



John Golden:

are very important. And I do agree with you about the the



John Golden:

pitching, I think during, especially during COVID, you



John Golden:

know, a lot of people suddenly ran to LinkedIn, right and



John Golden:

thought, Okay, this is where I'm going to do all my prospecting



John Golden:

from now on, and they got into those usual bad habits of of



John Golden:

just spamming people. And I think, to be honest, I have a



John Golden:

bit of a beef with LinkedIn over they should never have



John Golden:

introduced that auto email, you know, because I it really



John Golden:

frustrates me when I get a connection request from



John Golden:

somebody. It's all lovely, personalized, and it looks like



John Golden:

they reached out, you know, in an elegant way, and all of this.



John Golden:

And I'm like, Okay, I hit Connect, and then Bing, up comes



John Golden:

a pitch. And I'm like, great, you've just completely undone.



Janice Porter:

Yeah, the work you did bait and switch, right?



Janice Porter:

Bait and Switch? Yeah, exactly. I know. I agree with you



Janice Porter:

totally. So how do you think just to bring it now to the



Janice Porter:

future and the present and the future? How do you think AI has



Janice Porter:

has shaken that in the mix? Because there's so many things



Janice Porter:

on LinkedIn that you can do directly. I have an app, an AI



Janice Porter:

app, that's just on my LinkedIn that I can use. And I just did



Janice Porter:

it to demonstrate to you on your posts from this morning, because



Janice Porter:

I wanted to have fun with that and talk about it. So you did a



Janice Porter:

post on LinkedIn. I think it was today. It might have been



Janice Porter:

yesterday, but it was interesting. And it was about,



Janice Porter:

uh oh, a 5000 year old technology, about the shoe



Janice Porter:

laces, and it was interesting, and so I used my AI prompting



Janice Porter:

piece to respond to you, just because I wanted to see what



Janice Porter:

you'd think about it. So can I share Can I share that with you?



Janice Porter:

Yeah, please, please do. You won't have seen it yet, right?



Janice Porter:

So you wrote this great post on LinkedIn about what is a 5000



Janice Porter:

year old technology. It was three weeks ago, actually,



Janice Porter:

sorry, a 5000 year old technology that still dominates



Janice Porter:

its market. Answer, shoelaces. And then you went in and gave us



Janice Porter:

the history of shoelaces, and then tied it into business,



Janice Porter:

which was great as well. And the last sentence, in a world of



Janice Porter:

increasingly rapid change, there are still some things that



Janice Porter:

endure, and the good old shoelace proves that. And there



Janice Porter:

was a an image as well. And I went to my AI prompting, which



Janice Porter:

is right there, and I I tweaked it a little bit because I didn't



Janice Porter:

want it to sound completely like the same. But it was so easy to



Janice Porter:

respond to using that that that is the way of the future. Here's



Janice Porter:

what we said. What I said? It said, although I changed the



Janice Porter:

beginning, interesting post, John, I love learning about



Janice Porter:

things we often take for granted. That was me. I didn't



Janice Porter:

that. And then it says, it's incredible how something as



Janice Porter:

simple as shoe laces has stood the test of time, proving that



Janice Porter:

sometimes the most effective solutions are the ones we've had



Janice Porter:

for ages. It's a reminder that innovation doesn't always mean



Janice Porter:

reinventing the wheel. Sometimes it's about enhancing what



Janice Porter:

already works beautifully. Now for me, doing that was so much



Janice Porter:

more sounded so much more interesting than just saying,



Janice Porter:

hey, great post. John,



John Golden:

yeah, no, absolutely, and that those are



John Golden:

the the Hey, great post is, is just shorthand for, I haven't



John Golden:

read your article, but I'm hoping, if I post a comment



John Golden:

here, that somehow I get, I'll get something in return, even



John Golden:

though I've given nothing. Yes, so no, I think what you did



John Golden:

there, I think, I think that's a for me, that's an elegant way of



John Golden:

using AI, you know, you it created. Nice reply for you, but



John Golden:

you also tweaked this, you know, to make it personal. So I have



John Golden:

no issue with that. What I would have an issue with is, if you're



John Golden:

just using AI to, okay, just generate a comment quickly and



John Golden:

throwing it in, just because, again, it's you're taking the



John Golden:

great post, great post, John up just another level, yes, but I



John Golden:

think if you're, if you're engaging and you are like



John Golden:

tweaking. I think that's, I think that's absolutely I think



John Golden:

it saves me half an hour, yeah, yeah. And I think that's



John Golden:

absolutely fine, because here's the thing, at the end of the



John Golden:

day, we're not all writers. We're not all, you know, some of



John Golden:

us, it comes very easy to for some people, it's very, very



John Golden:

difficult, and but they want to engage, and they want to, you



John Golden:

know, show feedback, and all of that stuff. So I think AI has a



John Golden:

great role to play. And also, yeah, I mean, sometimes you take



John Golden:

in the realm of sales, right? You know, sales people,



John Golden:

generally speaking, you're not the greatest writers, not the



John Golden:

greatest, like email communicators, and that, you



John Golden:

know, that's normally something that resides in person, your



John Golden:

people, people, yeah, that resides in marketing. So if



John Golden:

you're leveraging AI to write a good email, and you're reviewing



John Golden:

it, and you're tweaking it yourself, and you're making sure



John Golden:

it hits the mark, I and it's saving you time, and more



John Golden:

importantly, it's, it's it's delivering a better outcome to



John Golden:

the cost to who's ever on the receiving end of that email,



John Golden:

right? If it's clear, if it's written properly, all of that, I



John Golden:

think that's a, I think that's a great use of I think that's a



John Golden:

great use of AI



Janice Porter:

well, and I didn't, I was just thought I'd



Janice Porter:

have fun with that. I hadn't even thought about it until I



Janice Porter:

till we got online, because I did it before this morning,



Janice Porter:

earlier this morning. But, yeah, I'm just having fun with AI in



Janice Porter:

some ways. But I think what you said is really important that we



Janice Porter:

still have to think about making it real and and putting some



Janice Porter:

thought behind it, and not like you said, What did you call it



Janice Porter:

hate, and the hate and great, like, the fact that we haven't



Janice Porter:

read it, but we just say great article, yeah, right through



Janice Porter:

that, right?



John Golden:

Yeah, absolutely. And just, and just one other



John Golden:

thing too, is yes, is, you know, if you're using AI as a tool to



John Golden:

support your to support what you're doing, I think that's,



John Golden:

that's the key to it. If you just use it, like I said, if you



John Golden:

just use it as a shortcut, spam tool, or whatever you eventually



John Golden:

you'll get caught out. Because the thing, I think one thing



John Golden:

that's really, really up these days Janice, is our antenna



John Golden:

about what's real and what's not real and who's authentic and



John Golden:

who's inauthentic, and and therefore, I think over time, if



John Golden:

you, if you misuse AI, eventually people are going to



John Golden:

see you as inauthentic, because they're going to see through it.



John Golden:

It's inevitable that eventually they'll see through it.



Janice Porter:

Yeah, good point. So I'm going to switch topics



Janice Porter:

for a minute, because I love the fact that you are a podcaster as



Janice Porter:

well, and you're a very successful podcaster. And I want



Janice Porter:

to first of all, how did you get into podcasting? Yeah,



John Golden:

so it's, it's an interesting story. So, oh, good.



John Golden:

Well, at Pipeline, or CRM, a number of years ago, I think it



John Golden:

was 2016 17. We were, we were actually, it's funny how things



John Golden:

happen kind of almost accidentally. But you look back



John Golden:

and you think, you know, there was obviously some purpose to



John Golden:

that, or reasoning why that happened. But we were migrating



John Golden:

a blog right from one technology to another. I think we're moving



John Golden:

off type Oh, three, off the product, onto onto WordPress,



John Golden:

right and and as we were doing that, I was like, we're all



John Golden:

about education. We really like to give back. We really like,



John Golden:

you know, we're really into helping educate sales people,



John Golden:

you know, we might. We're a technology company. We sell a



John Golden:

platform, but we're really into the theory and the practice of



John Golden:

sales itself. So why not do an online magazine instead of just



John Golden:

a blog, right? And then the second point was, well, where do



John Golden:

we get content from? Well, we said, well, we can write some



John Golden:

content, but then again, there's lots of people out there with



John Golden:

great opinion, so maybe we could get them involved. And then we



John Golden:

started doing these short sales chats, right where we just live



John Golden:

sales chats with one person, and then, and then that morphed



John Golden:

into, well, this is great, because we get way better



John Golden:

content when you interview people, plus you can interview



John Golden:

people from around the globe. So then that morphed into, let's



John Golden:

just go out and interview as many interesting people as we



John Golden:

can and bring their perspectives to our audience. And so when we



John Golden:

first started off, Janice, you know, we were reaching out, we



John Golden:

were finding guests. And you know what it's like when you



John Golden:

start a podcast, initially, it's like, well, who are you and and



John Golden:

your podcast is tiny, like, why would I want to be on that? But



John Golden:

I have to say, we found so many people who were so gracious with



John Golden:

their time and their insights that even coming on a small, you



John Golden:

know, obscure podcast, you know, they were willing, they were



John Golden:

willing to do it. And then over time, as it grew, we're at the



John Golden:

stage now where. To be honest, we don't outreach anymore,



John Golden:

right? So, in fact, we have almost difficulty managing the



John Golden:

amount of requests we get. Plus, you know, we work with the we



John Golden:

work with the podcast agency also that's, you know, supplies



John Golden:

us with a lot of guests. So that was kind of the metamorphosis.



John Golden:

It was kind of an accidental thing that took on a life of its



John Golden:

own, which is often the best, the best things in life are like



John Golden:

that.



Janice Porter:

But now, is that something that like? Are you?



Janice Porter:

Have you always been one to want to speak in front of a crowd? Or



Janice Porter:

are you the life of the party? Or, you know, are you right? Did



Janice Porter:

you always want to be that person in front of the



Janice Porter:

microphone? Because, yeah,



John Golden:

I think so. I think I always think, you know myself



John Golden:

as I'm more of, yeah, I love to speak. I love to speak in an



John Golden:

audience. I love to come on a podcast. I love all of that, you



John Golden:

know, the that that's a part that I really love, you know,



John Golden:

it's, you know, I'm not, I'm not probably the person who's going



John Golden:

to burst into the room and do all like, Hey, look at me, and



John Golden:

look at me, and all of that kind of stuff, you know, that's not,



John Golden:

that's not really me, but standing in front of an audience



John Golden:

I find or doing a podcast, you know, I really enjoy that part,



John Golden:

and I enjoy the connection like you. And when you're live



John Golden:

speaking, you love to see, you know, you spot somebody over



John Golden:

there who's smiling, or somebody who's taking a note, or somebody



John Golden:

who's nodding their head, or all of that, and, and, and then you



John Golden:

see the person who's not, and then you're going, like, this is



John Golden:

my challenge. Now I'm going to get a reaction out of those



Janice Porter:

people. So true, yes, yes, absolutely. And



John Golden:

so it's, I find it very energizing. And I think



John Golden:

also, you know, podcasting, and that's why, generally, I do



John Golden:

interviews, I don't do monologs, because I think, yeah, yeah. I



John Golden:

mean, I probably, maybe I have something interesting to say.



John Golden:

But I think the interaction between two people, and the



John Golden:

essence of podcasting I love, is when you feel like you're just



John Golden:

listening in on a conversation between two people. It's like



John Golden:

you're, you know, going back to when I was young, like you're



John Golden:

sitting on the bus and you're bored, you know, on the way



John Golden:

home, and you hear a conversation behind you, and it



John Golden:

entertains you for the whole journey. True,



Janice Porter:

that's very true. Yeah, that's good. So, so it



Janice Porter:

started for a way to promote, really, and help your clients



Janice Porter:

through the pipeline or company the CRM product that you sell,



Janice Porter:

correct,



John Golden:

yeah, it was really, it's really about



John Golden:

helping them with sales and with sale, you know, with sales



John Golden:

skills, insights and that. And then we got into sales



John Golden:

management and leadership and marketing. So it really is that



John Golden:

it really is a kind of an altruistic give back. It's a



John Golden:

free education resource, you know, that we we bring to



John Golden:

people. Because, as I said, we have, we have the tool, but we



John Golden:

believe that it's tool and theory, at the end of the day,



John Golden:

that makes the difference. And frankly, you know, we know



John Golden:

buyers have been through massive changes over the last number of



John Golden:

years, and how they buy sales is sales has lag behind a little



John Golden:

bit, I think, in in terms of change, in terms of of evolving



John Golden:

to meet those, those changing needs. And that's what we tried



John Golden:

to plug that gap a little



Janice Porter:

bit so just as a podcaster, have you ever? So



Janice Porter:

people get pitched to you by your sales agency and so on, or



Janice Porter:

by your podcast agency. And also, you find people along the



Janice Porter:

way that you want to interview. Have you ever can you think of



Janice Porter:

an example where you've gone, Okay, this one was really great,



Janice Porter:

but this one was a bomb. Like, how did you don't have to name



Janice Porter:

names, of course. But, you know, the experience, I'd be,



John Golden:

to be honest, I've been generally being very, very



John Golden:

fortunate that I've had very few of of, and I wouldn't even say



John Golden:

that any that I would say are a bomb. I think I've had a couple



John Golden:

of, you know, sometimes you get somebody who's maybe a little



John Golden:

who's not as used to doing it, who hasn't been on many



John Golden:

podcasts, and struggles with, maybe, at the beginning,



John Golden:

struggles with having a free flowing conversation. You know,



John Golden:

they'd be more comfortable if you gave them the questions and



John Golden:

you just asked the question, they have their their answer.



John Golden:

And that's not how I operate. So I would die if I had to do that.



John Golden:

Yeah, I know me too. I mean, too, because it just some of the



John Golden:

best conversations end up being like very little to do what you



John Golden:

started off talking Exactly, yeah. So, yeah. I mean, so I



John Golden:

think that's that's been the only times that you know, there



John Golden:

have been ones that maybe, and then I wouldn't say, like I



John Golden:

said, I wouldn't say they bombed. I would just say maybe I



John Golden:

had to work a little harder at them, just because I realized



John Golden:

that the person was maybe not as comfortable as other guests. And



John Golden:

therefore, you know, I had to find a way of getting them more



John Golden:

comfortable, allowing them to, you know, come out of their



John Golden:

shell or and you know that that that's a difficult thing in



John Golden:

itself. Surprise. I mean, I could list you so many people



John Golden:

who are being so surprising, just in, in what they've done



John Golden:

and in what they talk about, like I there's a guy, Kevin



John Golden:

cotton, who's, where's he? I can't remember where he's based



John Golden:

now, but somewhere, I think he might be in Singapore, somewhere



John Golden:

like that. But he got, he's gone and spent. Spent a year or two



John Golden:

with the Maasai tribes, you know, oh, really,



Janice Porter:

I remember studying them in in



Janice Porter:

anthropology. He,



John Golden:

he has lived, lived among them, and, you know,



John Golden:

studied what they do, and you know, brought that into into



John Golden:

business, and that which has been fascinating. In fact, he



John Golden:

invited me if I ever wanted to go and spend some time with him



John Golden:

in the Maasai. But oh how fast. I don't have a few months to



John Golden:

spare right now. And and like Dave Sanderson, the guy who was



John Golden:

the last, the last civilian off of the plane that ditched in the



John Golden:

Hudson River. You remember the miracle in the Hudson, he was



John Golden:

the last of the passengers off that plane as well. I mean, so



John Golden:

there's so many people like that who have these life experiences



John Golden:

that are just so mind blowing. But the but the the lessons that



John Golden:

come out of them are so adaptable to our to our lives.



John Golden:

You know, we don't need to have these dramatic incidences. And



John Golden:

then you just have people who have just had what I would call,



John Golden:

you know, regular life experiences, just like the rest



John Golden:

of us, with their ups and downs and their bumps, but they've



John Golden:

been able to parlay that into into interesting insights for



John Golden:

other people. So yeah, so that's, that's probably the most



John Golden:

surprising, is it's not the people who have the dramatic



John Golden:

event. Because, that's an easy one. You think, yeah, it's the



John Golden:

people who've had a life that most of us would go, yeah,



John Golden:

that's kind of like mine. It's not, you know, it's ups and



John Golden:

downs, it's yeah, it's a very regular but they've come up with



John Golden:

these great, great insights through that to share, or



John Golden:

they've made changes in their lives. You know that, yes, yes,



John Golden:

applicable to other people,



Janice Porter:

and those are the things that actually put me in



Janice Porter:

awe when I think of when I see those stories, or read those



Janice Porter:

stories of people that have really changed their life in a



Janice Porter:

big way. Yeah, I noticed that you're a martial artist, yeah,



Janice Porter:

and I have a little granddaughter who's five, and



Janice Porter:

she's taking Taekwondo, and has been since she was three, and



Janice Porter:

she's the most super active kid that needs the discipline of it,



Janice Porter:

and we're actually struggling right now with it, because she's



Janice Porter:

supposed to take her next test, but she's been so busy not



Janice Porter:

Paying attention that she really wasn't ready, and the, the the



Janice Porter:

coach hadn't or the, what do you call him, the Master? Yeah, the



Janice Porter:

master hadn't invited her to take it yet because she wasn't



Janice Porter:

ready, right? So you say you're a fourth dan in in WT in



Janice Porter:

taekwondo, okay, what's a, what's that? What's a dead



John Golden:

fourth degree black belt.



Janice Porter:

Okay, okay, that's pretty cool. Yeah. So do



Janice Porter:

you ever teach? I'm



John Golden:

a little bit but I mean, generally, I'm still a



John Golden:

student myself, you know. I mean, a lifelong student. But



John Golden:

interesting, what you say about you, about your niece, because



John Golden:

my granddaughter, my granddaughter, sorry, I, you



John Golden:

know, I did Taekwondo in Ireland when I was younger, and then I,



John Golden:

you know, drifted away from it. But when my son was born, he



John Golden:

was, you know, he's an only child, and and I thought, you



John Golden:

know, when he was three, I thought, you know, I need to get



John Golden:

me to martial arts, because I just want him. I just want him



John Golden:

to be left alone. Should we put it that way? Right? Yes, I'll be



John Golden:

bothered by Pete, by both. And so I started him in taekwondo



John Golden:

when he was three. And within a few weeks, the the Masters,



John Golden:

where we were living in Virginia, Grand Master mental



John Golden:

came and the master Danny, and they said, why aren't you doing



John Golden:

it with him? And I was like, Oh, well, you know. So anyway, so



John Golden:

they, talked me into it, and I started. So three and a half my



John Golden:

son started, I started with him, and he's now 19, and he's still



John Golden:

doing it, you know, he's got other things too, but he still,



John Golden:

you know, does it as much as he can and and so we went on this



John Golden:

phenomenal, like, 16 year journey that we're still on of



John Golden:

just and it was a great it's a great bonding experience for us.



John Golden:

But also, I would tell you this Janice is, I don't know when he



John Golden:

was growing up, the amount of times people mentioned to me,



John Golden:

like, why your son is very manly, he's very respectful. And



John Golden:

they were saying like, and, you know, how do you, how do you,



John Golden:

how do you get him like that? And I said, well, because we're



John Golden:

fantastic parents, obviously. And I said, Well, no, I said,



John Golden:

but to be honest, I think martial arts has played a



John Golden:

massive role in that, because it's the it's one of the few,



John Golden:

it's one of the few places left where you have to earn things,



John Golden:

where you have to show respect, where you have to respect you



John Golden:

have to respect seniority. You have to respect people older



John Golden:

than you. You might be better than them, but you have to



John Golden:

respect them, because they're more senior, they're older, and



John Golden:

you happen to be maybe younger and more agile, or whatever.



John Golden:

And, and that is, that is, so that's such a critical piece of



John Golden:

it, and, and, and I'll tell you a funny story you might want to



John Golden:

share with your granddad. Yes, I'd love that. Is, there was one



John Golden:

time I. When, when my son was really small, he was like, maybe



John Golden:

four or five, I don't know, but after I he used to do a kid's



John Golden:

class, and then he would do the adult class with me. So I would



John Golden:

sit through the kids class, and it was one day he was messing



John Golden:

about in the class, right? He wasn't paying attention. And at



John Golden:

the end of the class, there was only about four of them in that



John Golden:

class. Particularly, for some reason at the end of that class,



John Golden:

the instructor said, Okay, I'm going to give a stripe on your



John Golden:

belt, you know, a little bit of tape on your belt to everybody



John Golden:

who really worked hard today. So the other three got it, and he



John Golden:

didn't right. And so he came back at the end of class to me,



John Golden:

and he was, you know, really upset and and everything like



John Golden:

that. And I was trying to console him. Then I said, Okay,



John Golden:

go talk to Macedonian. Ask him, ask him why. And so, so he sat



John Golden:

him down, and he said, and he said to Jake, what color's your



John Golden:

your belt? And it was like yellow or green or something, at



John Golden:

the time, green. He goes, and what colors his belt over there?



John Golden:

And he said, Well, he's a yellow belt, and, you know, so he's a



John Golden:

lower belt, yeah. And he goes, How would you feel? How would



John Golden:

you feel, Jake, if I just went into the office now, grabbed her



John Golden:

a green belt off the wall and gave it to him. How would you



John Golden:

feel? And he said, Well, he hasn't earned it. He hasn't, he



John Golden:

hasn't done his and he goes, Yes. He goes, Why did you not



John Golden:

get a stripe this morning? And he goes, Well, because I didn't



John Golden:

earn it. And he goes precisely. And, you know, just the one



John Golden:

small and that stuck with him forever after that. And it's



John Golden:

just those phenomenal life lessons, but done in an but done



John Golden:

in an elegant way, right, in a way where understandable and



John Golden:

relatable. So that's why I think beautiful, and I hope for you,



John Golden:

you know your granddaughter will that will have the same impact



John Golden:

on her, and she realized that, yeah, it's not, it's not



John Golden:

participate. You don't get participation, right? Oh, you



John Golden:

earn what you get. And I just think that's a phenomenal life



John Golden:

lesson, particularly totally things are, you know, there's a



John Golden:

lot of mixed kids are getting a lot of mixed messages these



John Golden:

days. So true.



Janice Porter:

I know she, um, her mom took her out of class



Janice Porter:

towards the end of the class because she was fooling around



Janice Porter:

and not paying attention. And then gave her, you know, a



Janice Porter:

little had a conversation with her that night, and she said, Do



Janice Porter:

you want to get your next belt? She said, Yes. And she said,



Janice Porter:

Well, you can't do it if you're doing that in class. So we're



Janice Porter:

not going to go back if this is how you're going to be. She



Janice Porter:

says, I want to. I want to. So she went back last I think it



Janice Porter:

was last Monday and or last Wednesday, and she was fine. So



Janice Porter:

I don't know how she was yesterday yet, but, you know,



Janice Porter:

it's like, but it's, this is what it's there for, to teach



Janice Porter:

them that discipline and to teach them, yeah, so that's a



Janice Porter:

great story. I will share that. Thank you. And the other thing I



Janice Porter:

noticed is that you, you say that you or it says in your bio



Janice Porter:

that you are a secret, a secret of wisdom. So that, to me, means



Janice Porter:

you're a lifelong learner. And also, just that post that we



Janice Porter:

talked about earlier, about the sneakers, there are things that



Janice Porter:

you come across that that you want to, you know, find out more



Janice Porter:

information, because you had to, to find to do that article, I'm



Janice Porter:

sure. So are you a natural writer, or do you just, like,



Janice Porter:

find things and then just, is that become part of that



Janice Porter:

learning and seeking wisdom? Yeah. I mean,



John Golden:

I'm fortunate to be a natural writer. I've always



John Golden:

been, you know, throughout my life, it's I wish, I wish. I



John Golden:

know that comes really easy to me. Other things don't. So,



John Golden:

yeah, we all of our of course, but I think, I think, I think



John Golden:

curiosity is, and I think you're, and if we're just



John Golden:

talking about sales and business people, Curiosity is so key. And



John Golden:

I think we through technology and social media and all the one



John Golden:

of the One of the downfalls, it's a double edged sword,



John Golden:

right? I mean, it's given us access to so much information.



John Golden:

So if you're curious, by nature, you've got, like, so much



John Golden:

information out there. You can find information about anything,



John Golden:

but because it also feeds all this nonsense to people, they



John Golden:

kind of lack, I think it's diminished the curiosity of a



John Golden:

lot of people. Or if people aren't curious, you know, they



John Golden:

or they would be very superficial in terms of, you



John Golden:

know, they some, they hear something, they check a



John Golden:

headline, okay, but I've got it. I don't need to go any deeper.



John Golden:

And I think there's a little bit of a superficiality creeping in.



John Golden:

But I think for me, it's, it's natural curiosity, it's just



John Golden:

things that are fascinating and and like you said, the shoelace,



John Golden:

the shoelace one, because I've tried that, I tried that a



John Golden:

number of times to people like in groups, and I say, name me a



John Golden:

technology that's 1000s of years old. That's that basically has



John Golden:

not really been improved upon and has never been replaced, and



John Golden:

nobody ever gets it right. And then shoelaces people go, Whoa.



John Golden:

That's that's never thought of that. And and so I just think



John Golden:

that that, you know, just that cure that curiosity. And I think



John Golden:

if you're naturally curious, or if you develop a heightened



John Golden:

sense of curiosity, it makes you a better sales person and makes



John Golden:

you a better business person, because you really want to learn



John Golden:

more, you want to understand, and the only way it's rich even



John Golden:

says the only way you're going to understand more about an



John Golden:

organized. And what's going on is by having conversations,



John Golden:

asking questions, and then listening and then going deeper



John Golden:

and really wanting to to understand and being curious



John Golden:

about the business of business, because that's changing all the



John Golden:

time too. So I would say curiosity is probably one of the



John Golden:

number one traits that will help you be successful. And if you're



John Golden:

not in that, yeah, some people are. If you're not naturally



John Golden:

curious, it is something that you can develop and nurture.



John Golden:

Because let's face it, I'm I don't age you, but I'm certainly



John Golden:

old enough to remember the encyclopedias in our in our



John Golden:

living room at home. And when you needed to look up something,



John Golden:

you went to the encyclopedia. Now, the information and



John Golden:

encyclopedia was already, I don't know, five years out of



John Golden:

date, but that was your only source of information. So, you



John Golden:

know, it took a little bit of effort. You had to go and open



John Golden:

it and open and find it and do that. And then if you found



John Golden:

something, maybe you then had to go to the library and find, see



John Golden:

if there was a book camera and all of that those days ago.



John Golden:

Everything is there in front of you. So it's kind of like you



John Golden:

have no excuse anymore. So so



Janice Porter:

that that whole that thing that you just said



Janice Porter:

was just like gold, because if you read the thing I sent you



Janice Porter:

about my about some questions I may ask, my biggest thing is



Janice Porter:

about curiosity, and you just answered it without even me



Janice Porter:

asking you. Because I always like to to do that with my with



Janice Porter:

my guests and and I love that. I love that. I think we all are



Janice Porter:

born with curiosity, but I think some of us get it drummed out of



Janice Porter:

us, and some have to come back to it. But you also made me



Janice Porter:

think of something else when you talked about the shoelace. I'm



Janice Porter:

thinking of another thing that might be worthy of a topic,



Janice Porter:

because I was always fascinated with the umbrella, and the



Janice Porter:

umbrella has not changed forever, and then it did. Then



Janice Porter:

there was this guy in Germany that invented a new umbrella,



Janice Porter:

that I bought one actually online. And it was so



Janice Porter:

disappointed, because it came from China, and it was, it was



Janice Porter:

not in a great shape, and it broke after a while, but it was



Janice Porter:

the best in improvement on an umbrella I have ever seen.



Janice Porter:

Instead of closing down, it closed up, so all the wet stuff



Janice Porter:

didn't come all over you, right? The water was on the inside



Janice Porter:

brilliant umbrella. When you get in a car and you close it,



Janice Porter:

right, you don't get the So, but it never has caught on. That's



John Golden:

an interesting I mean, I think it's also



John Golden:

obviously knowledge, and sometimes people get comfortable



John Golden:

with things. But that's an interesting I tell you, though.



John Golden:

And there's another interesting one is, and I think this is



John Golden:

where sometimes you know, it's, maybe it's a it's an even better



John Golden:

example of what you're talking about, because it has been



John Golden:

successful. The people who did the Swiffer, yes, jet mobs,



John Golden:

right? Yes. They said, they said they were not inventing



John Golden:

something new. They were just making something that worked



John Golden:

really well for a long time. The mop more efficient. So they took



John Golden:

that thing. It's like, we're not inventing the mop. The mop is



John Golden:

already there. We're just making them up more efficient. And



John Golden:

obviously that caught on. Clearly, the the guy who



John Golden:

invented the umbrella, for some reason, it didn't catch on in



John Golden:

the same way. Maybe didn't have the funds to market it, or



John Golden:

whatever part of it. Yeah, but that's why I always say to



John Golden:

people, sometimes you don't, you know, it's great to be



John Golden:

innovative and like earth shattering and break a paradigm



John Golden:

and all of that. But sometimes it's more effective and better



John Golden:

to just improve something that's already there.



Janice Porter:

Yeah, this has been delightful. Thank you,



Janice Porter:

John. Thank you for being my guest and for sharing, just



Janice Porter:

having this great conversation. We went touched a lot of topics,



Janice Porter:

and I and I appreciate that, because I you know, it allows me



Janice Porter:

and my audience to get to know you a little bit, and hopefully



Janice Porter:

they will go and explore your podcasts and the things that you



Janice Porter:

talk about that and where they may get hold of you. I'll put in



Janice Porter:

the show notes. So the podcast is, would you, I think I have



Janice Porter:

here. It's on Apple, but you want it on YouTube as well,



Janice Porter:

right? Yeah, yeah, it's



John Golden:

on, it's on all the podcasts. Oh, yeah, got it,



John Golden:

okay, yeah, it's



Janice Porter:

on everything. And Pipeliner sales.com is where



Janice Porter:

you, where you live, as well, right? Yeah,



John Golden:

pipeline sales.com says pop.net, and obviously you



John Golden:

can find me on LinkedIn,



Janice Porter:

absolutely. And one final, maybe business tip



Janice Porter:

for my audience, if anything comes to you,



John Golden:

yeah, I think the biggest business tip I would



John Golden:

give is is never make assumptions. We, you know, we



John Golden:

tend to do that. Sometimes we're hardwired, sometimes to make



John Golden:

assumptions. I think, at this time of year, particularly as



John Golden:

the end of the year is coming up in that is, you know, don't make



John Golden:

assumptions. Don't make assumptions that your customers



John Golden:

are happy because you haven't heard from them. That's, you



John Golden:

know, that's one. Don't make an assumption that maybe you've



John Golden:

tapped out on on a client. Because, you know, circumstances



John Golden:

are changing all the time. There may be opportunities you. Don't



John Golden:

assume that maybe you have, you know, you've asked for a ref,



John Golden:

you've asked for a referral once, and it never came, so



John Golden:

you've given up on that. You just assume that it doesn't



John Golden:

work. I think assumptions are your worst enemy. Put it that



John Golden:

way,



Janice Porter:

oh, I think that's a great segue into what I



Janice Porter:

always say at the end of my podcast, actually, because I



Janice Porter:

totally agree with you, and that is first I think I'll thank you



Janice Porter:

for being here again, and I thank my audience for being



Janice Porter:

here. And if you like what you heard, please let us know we



Janice Porter:

always love five star reviews. And I want you to remember to



Janice Porter:

stay connected and be remembered.



John Golden:

Perfect. Thank you. Janice,



Janice Porter:

thank you.