Prospecting on Purpose: The Power of Building REAL Relationships in Sales | RR258

Hello, everyone and welcome to this week's

episode of relationships rule. My guest this week is Sara

Murray and Sara is coming to us from Park City, Utah, which is a

place I've been to once and absolutely adored. It was so

pretty there. So I love that she's in this app. Anyway, we'll

talk about that after I just want to talk about who Sarah is

for a minute. Sara is an advisor, a consultant and

speaker work who works with leaders and sales teams to

unlock the untapped potential in their prospecting and business

development efforts. With a focus on hospitality

construction, real estate design and technology industries, Sara

empowers professionals via her virtual and in person workshops

to enhance their communication skills approach prospecting

creatively and effectively address business needs rather

than simply pushing products. All right. So Sara also has her

own podcast and it's called prospecting on purpose. And she

uses that as a platform to have discussions on prospecting

sales, business strategies and mindset and hope that leaders or

that listeners take away some things they can use and build

their confidence around sales and prospecting as well. And I'd

like to start there Sarah, actually, prospecting on

purpose. You, I know that you have some great ideas, and some

you have implemented some great things around yourself

prospecting effectively and authentically. And I think

that's where I, I totally resonate with you because for

me, it's all about being authentic, and some being

organic. So I love the name of the pot, the podcast, tell me

about prospecting on purpose. Sure,

thank you for having me on the show. Janice,

I'm really happy to be here and to talk to you today. The way

that you know the the name prospecting on purpose came

about is that I have found especially in complex sales

processes, that you really have to be intentional with

everything that you do. So a synonym for prospecting, on

purpose is really selling with intentionality and going into

every type of exchange with a plan. And I think one of the

things that sales professionals forget is that the relationship

is the most important part of the entire process. But it's an

area that's very neglected. And there's a lot of reasons why

it's neglected it might be because it's more of the, you

know, quote unquote, soft skills, it's harder to quantify

the value of the relationship. Usually, it becomes a problem

much later in the sales cycle, when all of a sudden you're

competing on price, or you didn't get to the right decision

makers. And very often, our competitor is not the competing

product or service. But it's our real or true competitor is the

relationship that the competitors salespeople have

with our key decision makers. And so I really find that now,

especially post pandemic, that relationship piece is neglected,

because there's so many, you know, digital environments,

you're talking across multiple generation gaps. So how do you

find connection points are managers are leading by KPIs and

only looking at certain metrics instead of some of these pieces

that are really, really important. And so I had never

seen anyone talking about it and teaching it in the way that I

developed. And I've been mentored in my career. So I

really wanted to start the business and become a platform

for people to understand that they can still be their

authentic selves while they're hunting for business. And

actually, that's their biggest differentiator is to embrace

themselves. Because when you're comfortable in who you really

are other people feel comfortable around you and the

business stuff becomes a lot more organic and seamless. So

it's, it's great to be on the show and talk about things I'd

love to talk about. So thanks for having me.

Yeah, my pleasure. And well put well put

Sarah, because I think I wonder. So do you think it's the it's

the the newer salesperson, the the hungry salesperson, who, who

misses that very important piece? The one who has been

around for a long time, who's doing well? Do they also forget

about that? The personal touch the building the rapport

building the relationship, or is it just the newer? Or is it what

I

think it's every one and everyone? I mean, I

appreciate that question. Because what I find with very

experienced salespeople is that they get on autopilot. You know,

it's like we build habits and sometimes you're just going

through the motion and instead of remembering to take an extra

beat and lay some relationship groundwork, you just go into

your pitch, you just go into what you're doing. What I hear a

lot from my more experienced clients is, you know, oftentimes

they don't want our time is our most valuable asset. And so are

you going to give time to someone who's not yet currently

giving you business? But what I've started to find, and I can

share a fun example, I'm working with very experienced team,

they're in Boston, they're, you know, no nonsense gentleman and

I, we talked about this concept of like the emotional bank

account. And it's it's a common concept. It's in Stephen Covey's

a highly Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. But I think

what is helpful to people is realizing that the kind of

monetizing the relationship part I think, connects a lot of dots

for people. So when you're trying to pull business from

someone, and you haven't spent any time putting deposits in

their bank account, you're trying to pull from an empty

bank account, like the bank is empty, or it's at a deficit. So

you're not going to get where you want to go with that

approach. And I think usually, my my team in Boston that I

mentioning, they made a comment, they were approaching

architects, architecture firms, and my my client said, normally,

I wouldn't give people the time of day until I got a purchase

order from them, then my wall would come down, then we're

building the relationship. And but we're working through these

concepts. And he's at an architecture office, and he

hears the woman mentioned that she's going on a trip, and he

goes, I hear your voice in my ear. And I asked her where she

was going. And so they talked about this trip that she was

going on for like 20 minutes, didn't talk about the business

at all, didn't talk about his product, he gets back to his

office, and he had a project in his inbox from her. And then he

also had a second email requesting a lunch and learn for

their entire office. And he goes, I couldn't believe it just

20 minutes of BS thing got me two leads. And he's like, I

couldn't believe how simple it was. And I think I like to talk

about this because a it gets us to just connect on a human

level, be it lets us talk about things that we're interested in,

you know, kind of breaks the monotony of talking about our

product or our service all day. And see, it makes us more

interesting to the other person. And so it's a softer way to get

in the door. But it's a much more impactful way. Because once

you're in now, it would be weird if you didn't talk about

business. So we talked about the soft skills quite a bit. And I

think honestly, I feel like the people who need it more are

sometimes the more experienced professionals who just get stuck

in the rut.

That's a really good example. Thank you for

sharing that, Sarah, because that goes in so many different

places. That example, it's, it's, it's the essence really is

nobody cares about you until you care about them. Right? Why do

you care? So just asking that one question, I hear you're

going on a trip? Where are you going? You know, oh, they care

about me. They're interested in me. That's just like, it's

priceless. And, and I think it can be taught, I'm pretty sure

it can be taught. But I'm amazed also at how many people don't do

that. And don't Yeah, and you know, it's funny how and you've

said this twice now the soft skills, we talk about it as the

soft skills, but really not soft skills. Right? Exactly. Yeah.

The

ability to be emotionally intelligent enough

to connect with other person and communicate up to your boss up

to the top level of your clients. I mean, I think that is

such a hard skill to get to the core decision makers. And

oftentimes, I think one of the reasons why I felt confident

enough to start my consulting business and leave my corporate

world was, I had such a big track record of not having, you

know, a quote unquote, big title. But I could always get to

the decision maker. And I always joke like, we put these high

profile people, intimidating clients, Dream clients, Dream

podcast guests, for Janice, and I, you know, we put these people

up on this pedestal, and then everyone's kind of down on the

ground, and you're just trying to jump up on the pedestal. And

what I find is what I think really helps both with the

authenticity piece and the confidence piece is if you come

into every conversation, and this is really prospecting, on

purpose, thinking, how can I add value to the other person? And

so many people go in every type of interaction thinking, What

can I get from this person? For me, if you flip the script and

say, How can I add value to this other person, you're going to be

more present, you're going to be listening more, you're going to

find ways of organic connection points, and you're just filling

that bank account filling that bank account that when business

time comes, it's a no brainer. Oh, of course, I'll work with

Sarah. She knows all the stuff about me. She's done all of this

without asking for anything. Why wouldn't I work with her? It

just becomes a lot more streamlined and I appreciate you

mentioning that it is a hard skill because it's not easy to

get to the top dog.

It's not On but okay, I just want to back up in

a second because you're a smart cookie. I knew this a minute I

met you. And we met on a on a webinar on LinkedIn. But I loved

what I heard you say right away and I reached out or you reached

out whatever. And we connected. And there was something that

struck me and I wondered, you know, you come from corporate,

you were in the hospitality industry for most of your

career. I think that correct?

commercial construction. Yep. Oh, right.

Okay. So how did you learn this? Is it innate in

you? Did you have a mentor? Did it something clicked for you

with somebody that you were watching? How did because? Yeah,

just Yeah, I

appreciate that question. I've never been asked

that question on a podcast. And I think it's a combination of

two things. So one is just my family. You know, I've had a

family and I know you were a big thank you card person, as am I

and I had a grandma. She's no longer with us. But Esther

McDonald. And we had to write a thank you card for anything. And

it was it was she was very strict. You know, if some if she

gave somebody senior graduation money, and they didn't send her

a thank you card. No way. Were they getting college money. You

know, my grandma was strict and up all the neighbors knew it.

But she did you know, and she practiced what he preached, I

have many thank you cards from her for like, Thank you for

changing the refrigerator Filter, you know, like silly

things. But she walked the talk. But I was from a very young age,

forced to write thank you cards, as soon as I receive something.

And it's funny, because I moved I grew up in Utah, I moved to

Los Angeles after college, I ended up a family friend had an

amazing rent controlled apartment building, in a very

cool part of Los Angeles. And she, I all every Christmas, she

would get me and my brother gifts, my brother, and I guess I

would write her a thank you card. And now I moved to LA I

have somewhere to live. And I know without a doubt it was from

being a little kid writing your thank you cards, and I get this

rent controlled apartment in LA. So like, it served me in my

personal life very well, too. But I think one of the biggest

things is that you can't go into anything expecting to get

something in return. It's kind of the Law of Reciprocity. So

from a personal standpoint, my family's very gracious and

thoughtful, and I was fortunate enough to grow up around that

type of adult. And then I had a mentor, his name's Jamie, are

still very close. But I worked with him. And he really showed

me how to talk about business model versus product. I can give

a quick example here because I also think this helps you feel

more confident if you understand how your product or service

solves your prospects business problem versus talking about

product facts. So a quick example that that organization I

sold firepits and fireplaces and you know, fire elements to

hotels and commercial buildings. And it would just always get in

this like back and forth volleyball game of How hot does

the fire get? What is the fuel? What is the material of the fire

pit? How much does the fuel cost? Like it was just banging

your head against the wall, the same questions all the time. And

you could just see the client just talking themselves out of

wanting a fire pit because they just got in their own head. So

Jamie taught me how to really pivot that and start looking for

how does this fireplace or a fire pit increase that hotels

business. And now all of a sudden the conversation turns to

Hey, mister hotel owner, this firepit is going to be a

marketable amenity feature that you can advertise on your

website, people are gonna gather around the fire pit, you're

giving a gathering place, that fuel cost, don't worry about it,

it's gonna pay for itself in the first round of your $18

cocktails that you charge, you know, like, you're talking about

business model, and that really stuck with me throughout my

career. So I do have quite a few hard skills in terms of taking

the client through a sales process, speaking business model

and program benefits as opposed to product vomit, that's what I

call it, or pitch slapping is another way. But um, but it was

a combination of of Jamie's mentorship personal experience

of what seeing what worked, especially in LA which was a

very competitive market, and then putting my own kind of

intellectual property on it on how did I want to be able to

teach it, and it's kind of silly, but one day I sat down

and I drew a tree. Like I drew a tree and in the trunk of the

tree I wrote the word prospecting. And then I was

thinking if I would just sit down and tell a best friend.

What uh, you know, who knew nothing about prospecting, what

would you do? And I started filling in the tree branches of

like the different steps and then I organized it and that

really became the foundation for everything that I teach in my,

in my sales workshops in my public speaking event. So it's

really fun to bring it all together. And I love you know, I

know you and I share the same values here on gratitude and

personal touches and thoughtfulness. Like, that's a

big part of it. And I think people forget that 30 seconds of

thoughtfulness doesn't have to cost any money. But it can't

like the ROI act from that effort is massive. Yeah,

it totally is. And, and, wow, so you, you

remind me a lot of my daughter, one of my daughters, and you're

very much a self starter. And I think that's a piece that you

can't teach so much, because you have that confidence oozing from

you, you really do. And it makes me wonder. So now you're going

and you're, you're training a sales team, and you are

energetic, you are full of enthusiasm, and you're teaching

them your the skills and the tricks of the trade and so on.

Do you read that audience as your it's going to, you're going

to get to everybody in that team, or just the ones that are

hungry, and then use that term again, but not in the same way.

Like they want to succeed? Or to some of them sit there and say,

because, you know, we all have these we have in a classroom

when I used to teach school, you know, you've got the class

clown, you've got the quiet one, don't ever ask me a question.

And the one that's always got their hand up? It's the same

principle with adults when you're when you're training

them. And so do you see? The the ones that aren't buying it or

that don't think it's them? And can you try and turn them

around? Yeah, like, I

like that question to Janice. Um, yeah, I have a

couple of comments on that. So the first thing that I do in any

type of business interaction, and if anyone's listening in

there in any type of sales role, consulting role, etc, I start

every meeting by being very clear on who everyone is in the

room, what they do and what they care about. So in a sales

training environment, I make everyone go around the room.

First, we start with that name, what is their role at the

company? And then I like funny icebreakers, just to make the

day fun. So it's usually like if calories and money didn't

matter, what would you eat for breakfast every day? Like, I

like going to that one, because you learn about each other and

absolutely happy our omelets, like some crazy crab legs. But

so I learn who they are. And then we also and I'm quite good

with names. So I'm good at pulling people and say, Hey,

Jerry, what do you think about this, Hey, so and so. So kind of

forced participation. But if you understand their roles, you

understand what their end goal is, as long as you're catering

your comments to what matters to them, I find most people pay

attention. I think another thing that my workshops and the

message talks about is really embracing your own authentic

self and using that as your differentiator. And I think what

I've seen in the past, and what my clients have given me

feedback on is, there's no right or wrong way to do something.

And so when we're talking about these strategies, we start by

understanding what our values are, what our passions are, what

our core competencies are. And then later, we pull back to them

and say, this is when you would use your passions. This is when

you use your listening skills. So I think people like it,

because it still lets them be themselves. But it gives them a

roadmap on how to use the skills. And I think, especially

in a technical sales environment, technical people

want to prove their competence by their product knowledge. But

they also are quite coachable if you show them how to build

relationships. And I think this concept, like the biggest

takeaway that people share is the I call it a be a V always be

adding value. And at every stage, how can you be adding

value? And it's really funny, because at the end of my

workshops I had a gentleman pulled me aside and he showed me

Adam grants book called give and take, have you read it? I hadn't

read it either. And he goes, you're reminding me a lot of

this. And I said, Oh, that's awesome. I'll get it. And he

goes, No, no, I want to send it to you. I want to deposit in

your emotional bank account. So you sent me the book when a

little note ran inside. So I think what's kind of fun is it

lets people be creative, and it breaks up the monotony of their

day. So for the most part up until this point, I haven't had

any negative nancies. And if I'm being quite honest, Jana,

sometimes I feel like the ones who don't think they need it are

the ones who need it the most. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of

course. I'm not gonna force myself through someone's ego,

but I can quickly tell the difference between ego arrogance

and competence. And I think that tread the authenticity piece

helps the competence shine through and diffuses ego and

ariddek Arrogance. Yeah,

amazing. It's good stuff. This is really good

stuff. Because I know, for my listeners and the people that,

you know, I train, how to use LinkedIn, effectively, a so much

of the time what what I'm talking about once we get

through the basics is, you know, how are you going to use

LinkedIn to build new connections to build new

relationships? And what will you say to people and, and most

people stop short, they stopped short of, you know, they may

say, one message back and forth. And then I go, Well, what? So

how are you moving forward, right. And even though it's a

smaller type of thing than in a big sales process, just

prospecting, just making sure you're doing that with

intention, as you said, and, and being authentic, will move you

forward in building a relationship, and then it

becomes so much easier next time you talk to them and, you know,

seeing how you can, number one, give something of value. And

then number two, perhaps be able to serve them, you know, with

your business or whatever. So, yes, it's all really, it seems

to me common sense. But it isn't to a lot of people, when you

know, I think

I'm out, I'll share my favorite. This is like the

golden ticket LinkedIn message that always gets me a response.

So I call like the Holy Grail. But it has to come from a place

of sincerity as we know, I have a lot of connections in really

random industries. And, you know, part of it is just being

curious of other people and finding out what they're into

what they do and what their background is. I have a lot of

very, what's the word obscure connections around the world,

but one of the things is spent it's a little bit different now

with my consulting business. So this may not work for everyone.

But I'm meeting so many people just organically through

building my business. So one of the things that I will do, if I

want to meet with someone, and I and I don't really know about

their business, I will usually ping them and say, Hey, I hear

you know, I would love to learn more about your business. So I

can keep you in mind in my networking efforts. And I try

really intentionally to make connections to other people, and

just fill all these different people's bank accounts. Okay,

you have a luxury real estate business, I think you need to

talk to my friend Mark over here. Here's why now I'm feeding

Mark business, I'm helping her differentiate herself. And then

when the time comes for them to refer me. It's, of course they

would, you know, so it's just thinking about being a

connector. And that message almost always gets me a response

and it but it has to come from sincerity. Like let me just

learn about your business so I can keep you in mind for my

networking efforts. Yeah,

that's great. That's a good one. Yeah. There's

so many little things that turn into the right thing to do. So

fantastic. And we could talk for ages about this, I know that you

have a short amount of time today and and we're almost done.

So I'm gonna just Sideswipe a little bit and just ask a couple

of fun questions because I like to get to know that my audience

to get to know my my guests a little bit. So reading real

books, audio books, or videos or podcasts, what's your favorite

way of gathering information these days? Okay,

um, I love podcasts, because I like to do

the habit stacking where you can do your chores, you can do your

walk, it's like, oh, if I go on a walk, I can listen to this

podcast. So I'm a really big podcast person. I think there is

anything you could want to learn on a podcast. Like I had this

really bizarre consulting opportunity. And I needed a

really certain type of contract for it. No clue how to do it. I

googled Spotify found a podcast, it was like seven minutes, they

had a free contract as a freebie on their website. Like I got my

proposals on like this, you know. So I think that there's

just so much information from podcasts. For I do read a lot of

business books, and I have a lot of authors on my podcast too.

And I love that because I would say just a pro tip, if you're

reading a business book, read it with the thought that you're

going to interview the author, because I'm like underlining

stuff, because I know I get a chance to meet the author, but

I'm retaining it so much differently than I ever had. So

that's like, my new little hack is I'm going to read any

business book, like I'm gonna get the opportunity to talk to

the author. So I like podcasts and books.

That reminds me of a story that someone shared

with me that was on my podcast. He thinks like we do, and he's a

real people person. And he said that I asked him that question,

actually. And he said, he likes to read the real books because

he marks them up, right? And he likes to do that the business

books, and he said, and sometimes I will buy a second

copy. And I'll have my assistant, copy all the markups

that I've done in my book and I will send it to somebody so that

they can get the book but they also get to See what I think is

important in it? And I? Oh, that's interesting, because I

said, when I read the book, I think I'd be distracted by your

markups in the book. He said, Well, you'll see I'm going to

send you one. So we'll see. Because he said, There's it

works. And I thought that was really I never heard anybody do

that before.

I like that a lot. I am, I met one of the authors

that was on my podcast and met her in person. And I had marked

up the whole book, and I had it my person said, Would you sign

my book, as it was pretty marked up, and she started slipping

through and seeing what I marked up. I was like, this is

intimidating. I hope I picked some good stuff. But I think it

meant a lot to her too, because it's very serious. Yeah,

that's really interesting. Okay. And I think

I'm gonna ask you this question, because I'm very curious. And I

know who you are, too. And I want to know whether you think

it's two part question. Do you think that curiosity is innate?

Or learned? And part two is? What are you most curious about

today?

That is a fascinating question. And I've

never thought about it before. I want. I mean, I feel like my gut

answer is innate. Okay. But I feel like it could be learned,

too, you know, I think for the I mean, I don't want to, I don't

want to offend anyone, but

there's no right or wrong. Yeah, I mean, I feel

like,

I think curiosity comes from liking people and

interests. Like, I think just being naturally curious in the

world. I think it's innate, that's gonna be my answer.

Okay. All right. And what are you most curious

about these days? You know,

I've always been in business to business sales

environments, and like, really long, complex sales

environments. And my podcast is a sales podcast. And so I'm

learning more about different styles of selling. And I have a

lot of business to consumer clients that kind of come into

my orbit, like real estate agents and travel agents. And

that's not an area that I'm as well versed in, and I am

starting to explore it and experimented on it with my own

business, too. So I'm learning I'm, I'm getting quite curious

about business to consumer sales and more transactional sales,

and just how it's so different from b2b but how we can kind of

borrow from one another to, you know, to make like, I call it

human to human ah, to ah,

yeah, because I mean, when you think of like the

example, you just gave him a real estate agent, they have to

build in most cases today, you have to build relationships with

people, this is the biggest purchase or sale they're going

to ever have. And if they don't trust the person that's guiding

them through it right, then, to me, that's, yes, it's B is b2c

But, but it's not transactional, per se. Right. So you're so

right.

And what's interesting is that I feel like

so I just shared the example of selling to business model, you

know, firepit, to a hotel of that, if you look at it, instead

of thinking business model, what is the homeowners motivation,

you know, is this a second home or their primary residence? Is

it for entertaining their big family? Or, you know, like, you

have to understand those metrics. So it's still business

model, in a sense, but it's more like buyer motivation. And well,

it's good that in

Yeah, it's it's the it's it's not the search

results is what what's going to come from that the end? What am

I trying to say? It's, like causing the features. It's the

benefits.

Yeah. Like, how, how are you going to feel when

you live in that home versus the fact that it's got three

bedrooms and two bathrooms? That might be important, but that's

not the driving decision. Exactly.

Yeah. Location, location, location. Well, this

has been a delight, Sara, and I, I wish you well, on your next

project that I know you'd have to get to. And wish you. I'm not

gonna say good luck. I know. It'll be a fantastic. But where

can my audience find you? Your I know your podcast? I'll put it

on the show notes. But website, and podcast. Yeah.

So the podcast is on all the streaming platforms.

It's called prospecting on purpose. There's a YouTube

element to it, and I'm quite silly. So if you'd like watching

in YouTube, there's some some surprises there. And then my

website is Sarah marie.com. And Sarah is Sa ra.

Correct? No. H on your on yours. And then

LinkedIn.

I'm more than happy to connect on LinkedIn and

Janice are friends on LinkedIn. It's a it's a fun place to meet

like minded individuals and grow our network. So happy to connect

on LinkedIn.

Absolutely. Well, thank you again, Sarah, for

being here. Thank you to my audience for listening as always

I appreciate you and if you like what you heard please reach out

to Sarah and also please leave a review you know we always love

that and remember to stay connected and be remembered