Revolutionizing Business Growth: A Conversation with Kristen Kramer | RR256

Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of relationships rule. My guest this week is Kristin Kramer, who

is the founder of bold moves boss. She is an expert coach and

consultant specializing in the convergence of time tech and

talent to revolutionize the way entrepreneurs approach business

growth. And boy, there's questions I have for her for me,

because I do everything myself. And really, I don't need to do

everything myself. And I think Kristen is the girl to ask

because she has a lot of answers. Her routes are in a

virtual assistant agency, she owned one or is does still own

one. I'm not sure we'll get into that. And she what I love is I

saw this on your I think it was on your website, Kristen, that

you are the anti cookie cutter consultant. And so I want to

start there. So first of all, welcome. Welcome to the show.

Yeah, thank you, Janice, I am so excited to be on

your show today and hope that you know your listeners get a

lot out of this and just appreciate the opportunity.

Yeah, so anti cookie cutter. And this, this is really a core

philosophy of philosophy of mine that I have followed since I

started my business in 2011. But it really, really bubbled up to

the surface and become became a center point for me sort of a

focal point in the last three years or so. Because I've

watched a lot of programs that have just amazing marketing. I

mean, I'm jealous of the marketing. And you know, they

give you this, you know, process that you're supposed to follow,

right the framework, and they promise, big results, right, big

money for this big money, big money. And I've been both on the

receiving end of it and witness to other entrepreneurs sort of

experiencing this, right. So, you know, what happens is, we

get into these programs that are a cookie cutter solution, they

probably worked really well for the person that selling them,

because, you know, they're selling them, they wouldn't sell

something they didn't think worked, right. But what I see

is, more often than not those frameworks that are just sort of

a one size fits all approach, don't deliver results. So people

get into these programs, and myself included, I've been there

done that. And you're not getting the results that they

say you're supposed to be getting. And maybe you're brave

enough to share that with the person running the program, like

hey, you know, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but something

right, because I'm not getting the results that you said I

would get. And the way they approach that, or at least that

I've been on the receiving end and watched with other people is

that you're the problem. Like if you're not getting results in

this program, it's because you're not doing the work. And

you are the problem, not my program, you. And one, it's

really frustrating when you're on the receiving end of that,

too. It's just soul crushing for me to watch people experience

it. And three, it's not you, there's nothing wrong with you.

What's wrong is that cookie cutter solutions don't work.

They just don't work. You are unique. The way you work in your

business is unique. Your Business therefore is unique.

You don't extrapolate it out like and so what we need to do

is look at how, how are you functioning in your business?

Right? How do you make decisions and process information? And

then come up with a framework customized to your needs and the

way you work and think and do that is going to help you grow

your business? Your way?

Yeah, it sounds like oh, wait, she's listening

to me. She's going to listen to you know how I do something. So

I totally understand the the example you just gave where

someone will say, you know, do this three day challenge. And,

you know, it'll be you know, what a $50,000 challenge that

you know, you're going to get there. Well, the real question

is, did they do it the first time around? Probably not. But

they don't say that. They just say this is what to expect and

it doesn't always happen. And I think that I totally. I hear

lots of people that spend a lot of money on these kinds of

courses. And very few have that same success. It's very true.

But the other the complete other end of that is being able to

listen Be a good listener. So So when someone you know has an an

explorative, a discovery call with you, or however you start

with a process with them, you have to listen and ask the right

questions and and listen to how, how they're, what they're saying

what they're not saying, and how right how it's affecting their

business. So you and I just had a quick conversation before we

went on air about something very simple a process that I'm still

doing manually around my podcast, and which I probably

could have, and I've tried before, but I'd haven't followed

through to have a checklist of things that somebody else could

do on my behalf, or automated, perhaps I don't know. But it's

having the trust factor on and knowing that it's all going to

get done and being able to let go of some of it that I find

difficult. And so you get someone like me, so you have to

be a counselor as well as a, as a, an expert in you know, in the

systems. Right. Right.

Yeah. I mean, and, and I, I understand what

you're saying, because there's a couple things that happen when

we want to start delegating workout, right, there is the

trust factor. So we have to know that we can trust and rely upon

the person that we're asking to do the work. And there are ways

to onboard and train and communicate that help you do

that. So you don't have to micromanage. But the other piece

of it is, you know, when your business can essentially run on

a lot of levels without you as the main ingredient. it a little

bit of fear and insecurity comes into play because we're like,

they don't need me anymore. They I've been replaced, they don't

need me anymore. I'm not, I'm not significant to my business,

I'm not important to my business. And it sounds silly,

like, you know, when I say it out loud, I'm like, you know, 10

years ago, if somebody had said that, to me, I'd been like,

whatever. But I experienced that when I had my VA agency, I had

eight virtual assistants, I swear to you, as the day is

long, I could have gotten abducted by aliens, or, you

know, fallen into a crevasse or something for them not here for

me for weeks on end. And they would have continued just

running like a well oiled machine. And that's amazing when

you can create that in your business. For me, that's the

pinnacle of success. You know, in my mind, that's what I'm

always aiming for. But I did feel that insecurity and kind of

like, okay, so now what am I supposed to do? Because they

clearly don't need me. You know, I did such a great job training

and onboarding and building out systems that I'm no longer

necessary. And so you do get a little bit of insecurity that

sets in but but it fades, it does fade, if you sit in the

discomfort of it long enough, it will, it will ease up.

So the name of your company bold moves, boss,

which says something to me that tell me where that came from?

Because was it making the bold move into this business? Or is

it is it that you create bold moves for your clients? Um,

I think it's a little of both. But it's more

about helping people take the bold moves to what I call boss

up their business that used to be one of my taglines that I

use, you know, bold moves to boss up your business. There's a

lot of fire element and my branding. Yes, and that's

because, you know, fire is associated with transformation

and movement, it's very active. And sometimes, you know, if

you've ever heard me talk about business, you know, different

stages of the business lifecycle. One of them is the

Phoenix where you're reinventing and rebuilding your business.

And you're having to rise from the ashes, you know, into this

fiery, fiery bird. And that's really the essence of the brand

bold moves boss is about one truly appreciating and stepping

into your own power. Right, that you are the boss, right? And I

know that the term boss kind of comes with it has a negative

connotation. But for me, it's a positive. It's a positive word,

because we all want to be the boss like even when we you know,

when I worked in a traditional workforce, it's better to be the

boss than to have a crummy boss telling you what to do all the

time. Right. I don't

see it as negative I see it as powerful.

Yeah. And it's kind of a it's been modernized with the boss

babe type of mentality right as well. But let's just back Cut

for a second because you work with businesses in each of the

stages of their growth, the launch, and you've got the

unicorn, the launch and build phase, you've got the dragon,

the growth and scale phase, and then the Phoenix, the reinvent

and rebuilt. So you'll work with people in any of those phases of

their business, right?

Yeah, that's correct. I will. Yeah.

And so what's your favorite,

um, I think I'm a little biased right now,

because I find my business a bit in the Phoenix stage. You know,

because it taking a different direction and

kind of reinventing a little reinventing

how I fit into the current marketplace, right

to meet meet the needs of the changing marketplace. And I, you

know, I think I like I know, it sounds silly, I do like all of

them. And unicorns are, you know, they're fun to work with,

because they're, you know, it's about bringing their vision into

the real world, right. So helping them figure out how they

can be more effective in their business, if they're a

solopreneur, I work with a lot of solopreneurs, to bring that

vision into reality. And then dragons are, you know, in that

growth and scale phase, I've lived that several times over in

my own business. And so it's truly the entrepreneur going

through the growing pains of a growing business. And, you know,

helping them navigate and avoid all the tar pits and thorny

brambles have that process is fun, but usually what will

happen is, you know, I'll start with somebody, you know, early

in their business lifecycle, and then we just continue to evolve,

how I'm working with them as their business continues to

grow. I'm used to having long term clients, um, you know,

because I can work with businesses at any of those

stages. And so I'm able to sort of continue to evolve, meeting

their needs, and helping them guide, you know, be guided

through that scaling process, because it's, it is painful, it

doesn't have to be a nightmare. And you don't have to go it

alone. But it there are some some speed bumps you're going

to, you know, run into.

So with the work that you do, do you have to

constantly be assessing the different tools that are out

there? Or do you stay with your tried and true favorites?

No, I really, um, I really try to stay up to

date on, you know, like, right now, I'm exploring a lot of

different AI platforms, and how do we, you know, just I mean,

it's, it's the popular topic, right. But not just for

copywriting and marketing purposes for but for how we can

leverage that technology to be more effective in our day to day

operations. And, and help us ease some of that decision

fatigue that happens as entrepreneurs, you know, you get

to the end of the day, and you're like, you have to figure

out what, what's for dinner, and you're just like, I just, I

don't care if somebody's buying a frozen pizza, right, because I

don't want to make another decision today, like I'm tapped

out. So, you know, I, I definitely stay on top of what's

coming up. And if somebody brings a platform to me, then I

go, and I, I'm exploring it and trying to learn, you know, learn

more about it. Because, you know, the other thing that you

and I have talked about is that it's really important to get you

matched up with the right technology. So I don't think

there's anything wrong with, you know, only servicing or only

working with the, you know, specific set of platforms. But,

you know, keep isn't a good platform for everyone. So who's

not for everyone, some people just need constant contact or do

whatever. So,

I've tried to keep it simple, because I get

overwhelmed by things like Trello, even I tried Trello once

and it was all pretty and color coded. And but I couldn't get

myself there, I'd rather have my nice fountain pen and write on a

piece of paper. So you know, just you find these things out

about yourself as you're going through these processes, for

sure. Definitely, so But But what I find interesting in the

work that you do, which I think would be really rewarding, is

that you own I want to come back to something that we just talked

about AI, I want to just share something with you, but that you

kind of work both sides of things. You're looking at the

operations and how to systemize things and you're also looking

at the people side of things and delegating. So that must be

really rewarding when you're able to sort of cover the bases

for people. Yeah,

I think what kind of feeds my soul is when

I'm able to see my clients have those aha moments, you know,

where that spark, you know, that led us down this entrepreneurial

path halfway and said, I want to be a trailblazer.

Find the time to do what they love to do, the

business that they love to do, as opposed to being dug in the

mire of having to do your taxes. Or you're right, yeah, I

feel the same way about accounting. But yeah,

I think it's about falling in love with your business again,

you know, I'm falling in love with the idea that you're the

boss. And being the boss means that you also have control of

how you do things and the outcome. And taking, you know,

just really stepping into having control of, I guess, your

destiny, if you will. But really, for me, I think working

both sides of that, and helping them you know, leverage time and

technology and then talent, right, the people that they're

working with in their business is, is rewarding, because I get

to see them fall in love with their business again, like

remember why they wanted to be the captain of their own ship to

begin with, and to really love, love that experience and that

journey, and you're right and have a business that fuels the

lifestyle and the other dreams that they they want to bring

forth in their life, or

when you mentioned AI, and not just the

copywriting piece, I have a client that. So part of my

business is nurturing relationships that you have with

your clients and your prospects and so on. And I do that through

in real mail, greeting cards and gifts. And it's a system that I

use. That's one thing that systemized in a way for me, but

I still like to do that the personal touch on the cards. And

so I write them all into it, most of them are done

individually. But one of my clients, she decided that she

loved the idea of sending the cards, but she wanted to make

sure that it was really personalized. And so she would

go she is now doing this, she's going to their LinkedIn profile.

And maybe if she has access to them, she's talked to them and

their website, and she gets a sense of who they are. She's in

sales. And, and she's putting these things into Dolly, the AI,

visual thing, yeah, comes up with a card, a front of a card

that has all of their interests in whatever on it. So it shows

that she's listened. And then she uses that on the card system

that we

have. I love that. I love that idea. That's

and that is a great example of how we can leverage that

technology. And I was really resistant to jump on the, the AI

bandwagon because I was like, you know, the last thing I want

to do is kill more brain cells and forget like things like

grammar, yes, spelling, you know, just fundamental

communication skills, or independent thinking, Yes, but,

you know, now I really see it as a tool to help me be more

productive in my business. And, you know, for example, I'll I

can take a transcript from a call that I've had, if I have

permission to record it, of course, and I can drop that into

chat GPT and a custom GPT that I built, and I can ask it to give

me a meeting recap with key takeaways, action steps, like,

you know, to do list for each of us, and, you know, all of those

things. Um, and that used to take me a few hours to do now,

because I'd have to go back through all my notes. And now

it's, you know, I'm able to turn around a meeting recap and just

a few hours, you know, depending on how much I you know, want to

dig into all the details, but usually what it generates on the

first run is, is great. Yeah,

yeah, that's another whole thing, though, is

the custom templates. And I just had a sniff of that with

somebody that was on a call with us with some LinkedIn trainers a

couple of weeks ago, and I haven't had time to go back and

explore it, but it feels techy to me, and I get bogged down in

it. But it makes sense. When I you showed me actually how you

had your setup. So another whole thing and another piece that you

bring to the table actually for for your clients. I think that's

going to be really useful going forward. Yeah, I'm just to take

it offline a little bit. I just want to find out a little bit

more about you. And my audience then gets to know you a little

bit more because I think you have a lot to offer. A lot of

the people that listen to my, my podcast, but I like to know

sometimes. You know, are you are you a traditional reader? Are

you a Kindle reader now or are you a listener? Are you a video

person? What do you how do you get your information or

enjoyment I should say too, so

um, my guilty pleasure is true crime. Okay,

um, yeah, I books, podcasts have no listen to it, because I can

listen to them while I'm working on other things cooking dinner

and whatever, right? Yeah, um, and I do like audiobooks,

although the audiobooks I listened to are nonfiction, so

you know, their, like, business or history or you know,

whatever. I haven't really, like, gotten hooked on listening

to fiction, because that's kind of, like, I don't know, you

know, when you read a fiction book, you're in your head, you

hear what the character sound like and everything and an audio

when it's just one person reading sometimes they do a good

job, sometimes they don't. But, um, so I would say like, the way

I consume media right now is mostly audio. But I do a lot of

video too. You know, I mean, but it's, it's really probably more

audio because I'm busy doing other things and with a video, I

mean, you gotta,

you have to sit and watch it. I know, sit and

watch it. Yeah, I'm talking about true crime. Have you ever

read and

rules books? Ah, no, I haven't

you definitely want to do that. She's been

around as a true crime writer for years. And I read I met her

actually, she was from the Pacific Northwest. And she came

up to Vancouver to speak. And I went to hear her and she was

amazing. But her stuff is like, there was a guy in Seattle, who,

like every one of her books, they'd been convicted or

whatever. And she through the whole story. And he's even

corresponded with the people that she's, yeah, it's really

interesting. Anyway, her stories are very gripping. There was a

movie, probably before your time with Farrah Fawcett called the

burning bed.

Oh, no, I, I know that movie. Okay. Well,

that's one of the

books that she wrote. And there's one about

this. I have to get the name of it for you, because it was just

gripping about this guy who supposedly killed his wife. And

it was like the perfect murder and the whole story. Like you

can't stop reading her stuff, right?

Yeah, no, I yeah, definitely tell me what it

is. Because I do enjoy reading it. It's just I find that

audio now. I don't know they could. Oh, yeah,

that's, that's true, too. I

mean, and there is something to be said about

reading a book, even if it's an e book. I mean, it uses

different parts of our brain and engages us differently. And I'm

on the computer a lot. So I think that's why I don't like, I

don't use my phone as a computer because I'm like, Just get on my

laptop if I need something. You

know, it's funny because I, I used to read a lot

more. And I find myself very distracted. Now, when I read and

I really wanted to read this book that I heard about, it was

a novel. I don't read novels very, very often at all. And it

was called, it is called Lessons in chemistry. And it got really

good reviews. And I bought the book, the hardcover book, I

bought the book. And I've read two chapters, and it sits on my

night table. But the the, it's been made into a series on Apple

TV, and I knew it was there. And I didn't want to watch it

because I wanted to read the book first. Yeah, I just paved,

and I've started to watch it. And I think that's where it

needs to be for me. But yeah, I'm liking what I'm seeing. So

you never know, right? It just never I

want I think it's, I think, you know, it's

different. Because we, you know, like me, you probably consumed

so much electronically, that, you know, you're kind of like to

sit down with a book and hard read it that way. It's just

you're kind of like, Oh, I've been reading stuff all day.

Yeah, exactly. So so that's one question. The

other question I wanted to ask you, and then I'm gonna give you

one final question. That is, I often asked my guests to comment

on my favorite word, which is curiosity. And I want to know,

two parts one, do you think curiosity is innate? Or learned?

And part two is what are you most curious about these days?

So nature versus nurture? The age old question,

you know, I think curiosity can be learned. Okay. Um, but I

would also say that there are people who like my daughter, for

example, she is very curious, and she will go Reese, like, she

just researches all kinds of random stuff. She can blame me

on that, but but because I'm like that, too. And so she's

very curious about the world and how people behave and wants to

understand it more. And some people I think, are just like, I

leave me in my bubble. I don't want to know, which is fine. But

I think you can teach it to and I think it's fostering an

environment where I think because I think this piece is

the key. It's okay to ask questions. Yes, right, because

that's the root of curiosity. He has to question things. And, um,

you know, sometimes, you know, I mean, my dad was a great example

of this, and I don't fault him for it, but it was Do as I say,

not as I do. Right now, I'm still very curious. But, you

know, he didn't want wasn't, you know, it wasn't a conversation

or questions. You know, it was like I told you to go, Yeah, I'm

not here to discuss it with you. But I think that that curiosity

is when you're in an environment where you are able to ask

questions, and it's encouraged for you to question things that

you can learn to be very curious. And I think it's

something that people should work to cultivate. If they if

they feel like they're not very curious about things, then I

wouldn't, I would really encourage them to try. Try it

on, you know, and just start asking questions, then they

might be surprised might be pleasantly surprised to be like,

Oh, wow. Okay. Um, and then, what was the second part of the

question? I'm

sorry, the most curious about these days.

What am I most curious about these days? Um,

well, so it's kind of twofold. Um, one is, I'm, I'm really

curious about the direction of AI. Because, you know, I grew up

with the Terminator movies, and I am like this, this is the,

this is Skynet. Like being born. Right? And that's part of what I

have go through my head sometimes. Because, because with

a long conversation anyway, but so I'm very curious to see how

that's going to go. But I think I'm most curious about human

behavior, and why people do the things that they do. And you

know, why you can have two people that grow up in the same

household, and they turn out very differently, or why people

make the decisions that they make. And it's not just

psychology, it's really just kind of understanding, like, the

logic that they're using to make those decisions. So I think

that's why True Crime appeals to me so much is, you know, not

because I'm, like, morbid, and like to see other people suffer.

But it's because I, I'm like, the question I'm always asking

is, like, at what point did that, you know, boundary of, I

might think about doing that. But I know, that's not a good

idea, right? Like, I don't want to do the jail time, there's too

many repercussions, like, you know, being able to understand

the potential outcome and the consequences of it, versus

somebody that just bypasses that boundary, and they do something,

you know. So that's like a, what happened there? Like, how did

they get to that point where they were like, Yeah, this, this

is a good plan, this is what I'm going with, versus I'm going to

walk away and whatever, you know, have the day, you know,

karma delivers to you that you deserve or whatever, you know.

So I think human behavior is probably the thing I'm most

curious about. Okay, thank you. I can rival being an AI. Yeah.

Okay. That's awesome. Thank you. And the last

question I want to ask you is what would you like to leave

with my audience today as perhaps your, your key business?

Advice?

Yeah, so first, I would say that, at some point

in your business, you need help, right? Like, you're gonna get to

a point where you just can't manage it all yourself. And if

we work to build a solid foundation, meaning you've taken

the time to I know this is gonna sound really tedious and boring.

But to really document the way you're working in your business,

how things get done. Then when you come to me and you say,

Kristen, I need to get a virtual assistant. And I asked you, what

are you going to have them do, you will understand what you

want to get off of your plate, right? And you have to know that

information before you go out and hire somebody. Because if

you put the cart before the horse and hire somebody without

having a clue as to what you're going to delegate to them. And

that's usually just because we're, you know, we're walking

on water all the time as entrepreneurs, so we don't stop

long enough to get it all organized in a nice, neat little

package, right? But take the time to document it. And do

yourself a huge favor. To do that and consciously understand

where you're investing your time. Because if it's not, if

your time is not invested in cultivating relationships, and

nurturing relationships, because those are the two activities

that put money in your bank account, then it probably needs

to be assigned to somebody else. But to do that, you have to know

what If those things are, how you're going to train them, how

are you going to onboard them? How you're going to assign work

to them? How you're going to hold them accountable without

micromanaging them to death and creating more work for yourself?

Yeah, that's, that's good advice, actually.

Because I have tried before, to, to have someone do some VA work

for me, but I didn't really know what I wanted them to do. And

you can't expect them to be the person to pick it up when they

don't know what you know what you want. So right, yeah,

and they only see a sliver of your business,

they don't really see the entire business itself. So it's, you

really put yourself in, you know, in a position of

frustration and not getting the results that you hoped for. When

you're not clear on what you're going to have them do. Plus, if

you don't know what you're going to delegate, how do you ensure

that you hire the right professional?

Right, exactly. Because not everybody's the

expert in it. Right. Right. Well, thank you. Thank you for

being here. Thank you for your wisdom because I do believe that

you know what you're talking about, and I encourage my

audience to check out your website bold moves boss.com and

I will put everything in the show notes about how to find

you. Excuse me, I will also send you some information on an rule

and her books. And it'd be fun for me to look those up again.

And, and thank you to my audience for being here. As

usual. I appreciate you and remember to stay connected and

be remembered