Suicide & A Caregiver | Patience Behymer

Deana Brown Mitchell: Hi there, it's Deana with the Realized Foundation. And today I am here with patients. And I'm so excited to talk to you patients about your chapter in scars to start volume three. So would you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your chapter?

Sure. I mean, my name is Patience, you already said that. And I, the chapter that I wrote about was, um, it was intensely personal. Like, there are stories in it that like, my kids don't know, most of my family don't know, honestly, I even called one of my cousins and warned her that I was going to be writing about this, because she's a little bit younger than me. And so I wrote about my mom, and her, she's passed away now for, I don't know, over a dozen years, and she that she has attempted suicide more times than I can count during my lifetime. And so I just wrote about that, like, what it's like to be a kid of a parent who struggles. And so it was hard, like, I would have to take breaks and let my brain like, do its thing and come back in three or four days, just to write one chapter.

Deana Brown Mitchell: So we tell us a little more about that experience. And like, how, how did you cope with that? And how young were you when that came about?

Well, I write about it. Like I explained a lot more in my chapter. I basically, it was just always there, it was always hovering like my mom had. Like, just in our general family. Like it was always just a possibility, we always I always grew up knowing like, we had to take care of her. And so it wasn't necessarily when I was super young, anything that was spoken, but it was just this atmosphere. And then, during my earlier years, like I don't ever remember anything specific. So I don't know from memory, because I can't talk with my mother about it. So I don't know from memory, if there were instances that like the adults just kind of kept me from or if it was just there because they knew and I do start the story from writing about the stories that I do know, from when my mother was younger. Before she had me she had me when she was 21. But then I do share two specific instances where I was literally the rescue person one when I'm 17. And another when I was in my 30s, the last year of my mother's life, I actually had to be a caregiver for her. And there were at least two incidences during that one calendar year. And so those are both in my chapter. And so I'm not sure if that answers your question, but that's where my brain went. Yeah,

Deana Brown Mitchell: no, I think it's, it's important to share enough that people know, is this something I resonate with? And I really want to read more about how someone else overcame this situation, because it's something I'm dealing with the whole purpose of why we do these books. But do you know any more about your mom, and what kind of her life was like that? This situation?

Yes. So we come from a family of incest. I mean, there's just no other way to say and it's generational as long as anyone knows. And so, uh, with my mom, she broke that in me, but even I suffered as a child for many years. And so, um, so she and I do touch on this in the book, I don't give a whole lot of details, because my mom was always so private. And so I tried to just mostly write from my perspective than, like, telling her, but like, if she was still alive, you know, but she was severely abused by my grandparents her entire life, like I know, some specific stories and memories, even things that like other people in our family don't necessarily know. And so I am so and then she grew up, of course, and she had I had several stepfathers growing up and they were all abusive. And so this was just her life and what she knew and so I do I even write about that kind of stuff like how I processing throughout my life, a lot of that's in there and So eventually now like now in this space, it's easy to look. And it makes sense. When I was a kid, it didn't ever make sense to me. But now I mean, it's just so like the pain and the hurt that she carried was so deep, and she never really fully like I have found a lot of healing with the Lord and just allowing the Holy Spirit to attend to all these things. And for her, she never came to that place. Like she accepted the Lord, she believed in the Lord. And she could function for a few years in her adult life pretty well. But she would always go back to abusive husbands. And that really was so it was just more compounded abuse. And so that it's just the the suffering really is the short answer that long answer explains, but the short answer is, it's just the suffering of the human soul, you can only take so much.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Sure, yeah. Yeah, I think it's, our brains are so magnificent in so many ways. And I think sometimes they're able to block some things out. But I was talking to somebody else earlier about, about that. And if we're not going to talk about it, and we block something, then we're not healing from it. And so, either you're stuffing it down and not healing from it. And it's it's eating from the inside out, basically, yeah, or you're talking about it, but that doesn't, I think the conversation does help. But it also depends on the situation, and who you have available to talk to about it. Yes, as. And I think that's part of our mission is being the peer support for people who don't have someone in their life, who can, either so be supportive or even understand what you're trying to process and talk about. And so I think it's really important that people understand, that's why we write these books. So you can connect with somebody that has been through something that you're going through, that you can connect with them and have that conversation, or you can join some of our events or our membership or whatever it is to, to be in this community of people who will be you will be supported and will listen and help you in whatever way you need to. So I just wanted to say that so people understand, you know, why are we even having these conversations. But I really do. After my own attempt and being silent about it for 23 years, it really, it really was because I never felt like I was in a situation with any person that made me feel like it was okay to talk about. Yeah, and that's the other part of the mission is like, if somebody is in that place of like, I feel the shame and the guilt, and I don't want people to know, or I feel like I did something wrong, or I feel like I'm not enough or I don't matter, then you can read a story in the privacy of your own space, and connect with someone else that's been through what you've been through. And I think it it, I've had people tell me, it makes a difference. So it's, it's very important to me to keep on writing stories for for people to find that connection that they need to get the healing and conversation that they need to have. So I want to ask you another question about your experience with scars, the stars and the community of people that are writing in volume three, and also just writing your own story and what your experience has been through the past, you know, couple months working on a project?

Well, I, my experience was scars are still doing wonderful, which you know, because I tell you all the time, it's just wonderful to have this kind of a platform where you're not doing this by yourself. And I was thinking while you were talking about the project of scars to stars, and I think that is such a huge factor. Because when you're struggling or your family is struggling with some of these deep things that we all are writing about. It is so easy to have tunnel vision and think that you are the only one and that is not reality at all. It's not even true. Like your neighbors literally with the same exact thing or your friends or whatever like you're talking about. And so that in and of itself and so that will it just having this platform to work on these things, has been not delightful, but it has made it. So it's just not that hard, you know, everyone else was doing the same exact thing. And yes, my experiences are my own, and they're my own personal and I happen, I am the only one like, even I'm an only child. So I literally later parts of my story, I am the only one for this specific story. But to know that there are others who to just have that solidarity, it has been wonderful. And to be able to have a platform, we've talked about this briefly in some of our other discussions, is to have the platform to even like I had a lot of therapy when I was a teenager. And I've always had, like, people who are close to me that know, like, you know, all about my life are about these different experiences. But to just have a space to like, sit with it, and examine it and look at it and, and think it through and allow your heart to just be however it is on any given day. That has been fundamental that has been like, honestly, I probably won't understand for like a year or two, to just have a space to, to be to just be with it. It's not a not. How do I say, it's not just having the space to discuss it, like I've done that, I've had the space to discuss it. And you're just like all of it, like you're doing something you're in those places of therapy, it's like trying to figure out what are you going to do with it, and you're processing the memory and the emotions and, and it's almost like work, where this has been just more an experience of I don't know if that makes any kind of sense. But without having to, okay, x, y, z, this is what we're doing. And these are marching or Ah, just to be with it. I think at one point I wrote something down about it just has given space to like pull these things off of the shelf, like, you know, they're there. They are there things that you have addressed. They're things that you have dealt with, or things that you've had conversations with others about, but just to give them like a life of their own. I don't know if that makes any sense. But that's about slight like I have

Deana Brown Mitchell: A lot of sense. I think he just said it in a way that I've never heard it said, which is good, because everybody absorbs information differently. And so somebody might hear might have heard me say something 10 times and now they heard you say that. And that totally makes sense.

I hope so. Absolutely. So it's in my brain. I don't know how well I can get it out of my mouth.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Yeah, I'm excited to to hear that version. Because they do get it does. And there's something in my head, I feel like I'm supposed to say, you know, these books have been donated on a pretty big scale to libraries and jails and homeless shelters. And we hope to continue and broaden that, that mission, just so more people can can read them. And I want to share something. My mom was telling me she has a house in Louisiana. And it's a historical building. So there's a lot of people that come there, right. And there were these ladies who came for some reason. And they had one of their daughters with them who was a teenager. I don't know how old she was, but my mom always has these books in her house like close to the front door. And when they all came in, the daughter took one of the books and went and sat down and started reading it. Wow, my mom was having a conversation with these these ladies. And I don't know who they are they you know, anything. So I'm not given anyone's identity away. But then my mom found out that she had been struggling with depression or, or something like that, and figuring out like how, how, why she was looking at it and what it meant to her. And then, you know, obviously she gave it to her and she took it home. And so I've just had so many stories from the first two books like that, of just people who have picked it up or been. I give them away all the time. And where I live the gondolas, kind of our public transportation, and I'll be in the gondola and I'll be talking to somebody, and they asked me what I do. And, and when we start talking, they're interested. So I give them a book. And they're like, Oh, you don't have to give it to me. And I'm like, but I want to, and if you read it, or don't read it, just pass it on to somebody else. And so I think in our second book, we even put a page in the front that said, if you want to pass this to someone else, you know, write a note or your name or something. So it see people can see that it's been passed on to people that want to read these stories. And so it's just been a project that started as virtual summits that then turned into books, and has turned into this own life, the life of its own. And it's, we know, it's helping people, it's hard to track. You know, how many people we know, we've reached, Japan, and Australia and the UK and Canada and Mexico, like, we know, the books are reaching all those countries, but we don't necessarily know, you know, how many people have read them, because people are encouraged to read it and pass it on, you know, pass it on to somebody. So I'm excited about what's to come and how many people in the world are going to read your story.

Thanks. So it's a little overwhelming, but it's alright.

Deana Brown Mitchell: It is, but at the same time, it's like we we write our story, and then we move on was true. And hopefully the people that are listening to this, or reading our books are going to reach out to the people whose story resonates with them. That's why we put our bio and our link in there. So if you're reading a story, and you're like, gosh, I feel like this person is reading my soul. And I need to connect with them. You have a way to do that. So it's exciting.

That is exciting. It's good. It is encouraging, you know, like, because when you're living it, you're just trying to survive, like you're just like, one day at a time, one moment at a time. i You just never would have met I know, no one who's written in these books will ever have projected or imagine such a thing. That you can just be like, Oh, well, that was pretty hellish. But it could help someone else. You don't think like that you just don't. And so that is exciting.

Deana Brown Mitchell: And it's true that when you're in it's for all of us, who have written in the books or the people who are reading, when we're in those places of adversity, whatever it is for you. We do feel like we're alone. We do feel like nobody else could understand what I'm dealing with. But we're wrong about that. Yeah. And there are so many people who can relate to any situation. I mean, there are 7 billion people in the world. Exactly. So there are probably hundreds or 1000s of people who have been in a similar situation as you, if not more, depending on what it is. And for suicide specifically, you know, we lose, we lose about 1 million souls a year in the world to suicide. And they say that for every one person who dies by suicide, there are 20 more that have an attempt. Yeah, you're talking about millions and millions and millions of people who have dealt with suicide, either ideation, they've died by suicide, or they've lost someone by suicide. Yeah, it's, it's very more that's redundant, but it's much more prevalent than anyone thinks unless they're study the numbers.

Yeah. And the work that I do specifically, like, for every attempt, there's so many more people who have thought about it, struggled with it, got help for it, talk with a family member, I would guess that you know, most families are dealing with this with someone at some point in the existence of that family, you know, at some point like many parents are dealing with that this with their, their kids or their teenagers or their young adults like and, you know, I just, it's just phenomenal, like not phenomenal, good but like the number is astronomical to me.

Deana Brown Mitchell: It is and the other thing we we do talk about out with these books is that the stories are all different things on purpose, because the people who get to the suicidal ideation stage have gotten there and different path. And it could be abuse, it could be addiction, it could be, you know, you've had some mental health diagnosis that you don't know how to deal with. It could be that you're, you know, we have a chapter about infertility in our second book, you know, it'd be divorce, it could be so many things,

anything that would bring shame, shame and blame, I think.

Deana Brown Mitchell: But any victory? Yeah, yeah. So it's like, we can help people with those struggles. Before they get to the ideation, yeah, then we are saving lives. And that's, that's the point. I mean, obviously, if somebody is already in ideation, we still want to help them. But we also want to cast a bigger net and say, We want to help you with the addiction, we want to help you with the abuse, or you know, whatever it is, you need support around. So you're not going to go down that road. Because too many of us have been down that road. And it's not, it's not good.

Yeah. Mm hmm. And I think for me, especially writing, from my perspective, it and I have known many others that deal with this is, often by the time you get to the ideation you literally think that it's about you. And many of the conversations I personally have had is that it's not about you, your wife, we all love you. And your life is not about you, like your father, your son, you are a mother, your sister, your friend, you're like you have all these relationships. And the ripple effect of this is astounding. And I know in all of that pain and anguish, like you don't even none of that registers. And so that often is because being a child of a mother who is like this, that almost immediately is where I go when because people will have very candid conversations with me when because of work I do and too, because of everything I've been through. And so they just know. And so it's like, Yeah, but that decision is not about you, you're doing something about these thoughts and getting the help that you need, and reaching out to the people that you need to that is about you. But the actual act itself is the impact. Like it's just explosive. And so that is my whole heart of like, five senses. That's my whole heart about like, it leaves such a wake of destruction. And all you're trying to do is deal with yourself. Like it's not your intent at all. But it's intense.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Yeah, I'm glad that you said that. Because it's it is true, that when someone in when someone makes that decision where it's a plan or whether it's a 62nd decision. Exactly, it is about stopping pain. It is not. It is not about anything else. Yeah. I mean, that's just what I know, in my head. Yeah. But I also think that there are people even in my life that have said to me, suicide is selfish. And the first time someone said that, to me, I was very offended.

And I think that I can imagine because you're just trying to deal with your own pain. Yeah.

Deana Brown Mitchell: But also think that having someone say that to me, and having a conversation around it, and having understanding from their perspective of what they see, and what you just said. And then having the perspective of being in that place myself. It's like, I don't think the intention, like you said of anybody is to be selfish. Their intention is to stop the pain. And in that moment, or that, whatever that timeframe is, yeah, that people are making a decision like that. They are thinking in their head. Everyone would be better off without me.

Yes.

Deana Brown Mitchell: And so it's it's very hard for someone to understand why people make that decision if they've never been close to something like that? Yeah. And I think that's another reason why. When my friend died in 2018, it hit me so hard. Because if I could have had a conversation, yeah. Yeah. Deep breath.

The conversation, this was like the last thing that I would say, because we're almost finished. And that way you can breathe. To me, the conversation is always worth it. Yes. And it's not a small conversation, like people, sometimes people will say these things in passing, and I am always the person who's like, No, we need to go back to them. And so, in my experience, it's never just a little thought, passing thought, If the thought is allowed to remain unchecked, it will grow. Especially in that quiet, deep, painful place, it will just grow and grow and grow. And so I'm always like, No, we need to stop right here. And so like someone there, you know, even my kids, and they'd be like, you know, they kind of know how to answer my questions at this point, you know, and, yeah, one of my kids I was, and the answer is like, I don't have a plan, okay. I'm like, Hey, so long as you know where I'm going.

Deana Brown Mitchell: That is, that is the best thing that that is the best conversation you can have with your kids. And I think, you know, we have, we have a veteran first responder on our board. And he reiterates all the time, he's like, You are never going to plant an idea in someone's head by asking them if they're having suicidal thoughts, whether they're nine or 40. Like, it doesn't matter, you can always ask that question. And you should, if you have concerns, because if if someone is having those thoughts, and they're scared to talk about it, and you ask that question, they may deny it. But now they know, you know, you know what I mean? And then hopefully know that they can talk to you about it. Because it is something that causes shame, if you think someone knows. And if you are planning something, and someone confronts you about it, I think it will make you have second thoughts about what you're doing. And hopefully, if you're listening to this, and you're in this place, you will talk to them. Because it is always better to have a conversation.

I feel like it's better to have the conversation, even if you feel like you don't know what to say, yes. Because the fear is that you'll say something wrong. And I just find like, especially with my experiences with my mother, I've come to the place where I would rather say something wrong, but draw something into the light so it can't remain hidden. Yes. Then I think that I have to do it perfectly and say nothing kind of like your experience with your friend where that was your biggest grief. Yeah. And so but you know,

Deana Brown Mitchell: and like you said, you said a few minutes ago, like somebody would say something in passing. Yes. But it might have taken all the energy. And might they had to say that in passing. And it's because they were scared to talk about it at all. Or they don't know how, right? They don't know how or they they're scared or they're shameful. And I just want to I just want to mention, if you go to our website, yes, on the main page, or if you go to the first four episodes of our podcasts, they are for short, video or audio clips. That is called the hope course. And the very first one is how do we talk about this. So if you're in a place where you have somebody in your life who's struggling and you don't know what to say, please go listen to that. And please reach out to any of us if there's a way we can help. Because that's what we're here for. So

for being here for I have yet to see how cool I will be but that is the hope.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Well, I think this conversation you just had with me is super helpful and will help many people who maybe haven't had a conversation about suicide before because then they can see how how other people talk about it. I do really appreciate your time. I am today and the conversation and I am so glad you are part of this book.

Thank you. It has been lovely. I mean as far as some very hard things can be. It has been wonderful and I thank you for allowing me to be a part of it.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Awesome. Well, of course, then I will end our conversation with you matter, you are enough and you are worthy. And we would love to see you in our community.

Yes