Veterans Week – Panel Discussion | Clint Bruce, Drew Robertson, Heather Ehle & Jarrod H. Smith

Deana Brown Mitchell: Hi, everybody, welcome. And I'm so glad to see you all here. So I want to thank you all for joining us today for this very, very important topic, we will have some time for q&a at the end. So if you have questions, please put them in the chat as each speaker is talking about their organization and details around what we're all doing to combat veteran suicide. So my name is Dina Mitchell, and I am the founder and executive director of The Realize Foundation. And our mission is to reduce suicide statistics across humanity. In October, we launched the save a life challenge, which is all about having the conversation about suicide and mental health. Our theory instead of targeting the only the humans struggling with ideation, we spread awareness and education to all humans. So when the person struggling is ready to have the conversation, there are people around them that will understand how to listen and be supportive. So in turn, that we stopped the stigma, this would cause people to get how, when they need it, and ultimately reduce the suicide statistics. You can learn more at our website. And it's posted, it'll be posted in this post at realized foundation.org. Or you can just Google save a life challenge. And you will find this there. So today, we I'm so excited. We have guests who are all entrenched in the veteran community and know firsthand how dire the situation is, and has been for some time. So I'm going to introduce them to you and let them tell you about what they're doing in their world. And first, I would like to introduce Mr. Clint Bruce. He is a former Special Ops officer, a board member for Americans or your partnership, and Operation Deep Dive.

Yeah, well, hey, it's great to be on the call with whoever the audience is, and the listeners, but certainly with people who are kind of in the fight, you know, I have these three beautiful daughters and one of the guts all the time, it's like, the girls it comes down to words work and wins. And the truth is serendipity as much more to success than most people think. But you got to put your words to work to win in the first place. And so for you to be on the call with just people who have thrown their hat in the ring and put their words to work. That's a tremendous honor for me. But like I said, my name is Clint, Bruce, I, my background briefly, not that it matters. But I'm here to just affirm that I believe everything I'm telling you now learned somewhat. I grew up in Texas played football, the United States Naval Academy was fortunately part of a really good chance I had an opportunity to play in the NFL, nobody knows that, because that played the same position as Ray Lewis and he's pretty good. I remember being a practice one day going, it might be easier to become a Navy SEAL than to be outright worse. And and so I did was hand that with your SEAL training in the late 90s made it check in the SEAL Team funny I've left went back out in the NFL briefly. And then really just realized everything I loved about football was times to in military service and in the Special Operations community. And that unique and special operations can be one of the great privileges of my life, immediate interoperate with some of the conventional units. And just the courage and valor that I've found there in the men and women that served all over is pretty humbling and amazing. When I left service, I came home and went into business and I noticed this very disappointing and frustrating trend to just not do Memorial Day, the way I needed America to do Memorial Day was a guy who had lost my friends and while I was gonna lose more, and that resulted in starting position called carry the load which exists to restore the true meaning of Memorial Day and extend that branch of recognition to all the sacrificial services throughout the month of May culminating in the military specifically, on Memorial Day in May we have a wonderful cemetery of West Point out of Dallas, Seattle, Dallas, Minneapolis to Dallas and and for 24/7 people on the road walking towards Dallas asking a question who really care and then just listening as people will tell us people that they miss, because the calculus for me was memorial that my friend thought you were worth dying for and they didn't even know you. You don't remember them. They are supposed to be some dynamic sense to me. And I need that make sense to me. It's it's a part of that work for a while and kind of turning that leadership over to people. I think we're probably more better and talented than I am but the season we're in. And I always feel like the long term solution often is to just work and I wanted to get to work building businesses that allow veterans to transition and more and more families transition more but If you believe that win the war on veteran suicide with a power daily wins and a good day's work, you know the process of doing that met Jim moraine, who's the chairman America's where your partnership and, and learn specifically about Operation Deep Dive which I'm excited to share about here in a moment and went on the board for here's where your partnership as well as down here in Dallas is a organization called the Center for Brain Health and the brain Performance Institute in between those two organizations, I felt like I could be a resource as we attacked this concept called suicide from a purpose and integration and a reintegration perspective. And then from a brain science perspective, and one of the things you can do everybody was a problem solver musical watching or about the country but you can't solve the problem once you know what the problem was. And one of the things Operation Deep Dive, while it's been attracted to it is imaging and communication we can understand so much more about the brain that we could even 10 years ago. But if we're dealing with inaccurate information, we're going to continue to be incorrect or incomplete solutions. And the way that he was I was being quantified was inaccurate, and there was no one's attention and no one's desire, no one's designed to be an accurate, not doing good until you're knocked out by to get by. And some wanted to broaden the aperture part of Bristol Myers Squibb. They just had a heart for this out of the gate. And Operation Deep Dive became a four year study with a goal of examining how the deceased veterans in the one thing I love so much of what you guys just realized foundation is you spread the net across humanity, if we look at our communities to return to services, and net, the net can only be as effective as the meshes tight, right. And when you have someone's falling versus falling knows they're falling himself stoppages a hard day near falling. So it's the net that saves you and weaving together better awareness, creating better programs that could have fun when there isn't a tighter net in the falling person falls, it's easier to catch them. And it's easier to detect them. And it's easier the previous programs that stopped that fall. And that's really what operation did. That was both you and America's work partnership is built to mesh together better community integration and help people understand what it's like to be in reintegrating as we're integrated. And the point was committed to giving us better data about that. And one of the things we've been able to do the operation, we're actually able to the first time ever, we were able to obtain all death records from 2014 to 2019, from Alabama, Montana, Massachusetts, Florida, and Minnesota. And these records were provided to DOD for verification for for service members and benefits are what allows us to really understand or begin, what's the actual number, anybody who's been in a fight knows that the number of adversaries is a critical number, you know, I can't say who dies, there's either not enough Intel for Target or the Intel isn't accurate. But when you get accurate until you get by Well, we're trying to really better quantify and redefine, obviously, the number of suicide reported suicide is somewhat down. But when you begin to look at the fatality at suicide, we'll go non natural cause of death, which were defined as overdoses fixie ation, accidental gunshot, drowning suicide by law enforcement, or high speed single driver accident. In the last 24 months. The number becomes friendly care by Dan worldlings operation guy was built to get a better handle on that number by getting having conversations with families of veterans of lost in turn better determine the cause of death. And whether or not it's more accurately attributed to suicide than it is. These just contributed deaths, and then we know what the problem is that then we can go about solving it. So what's the biggest way that people can help Operation Deep Dive is really Operation Deep Dive, the more we can talk, that's our goal, just like yours, our goal for every citizen in the US to know about this resource and opportunity and to move from suicide prevention to awareness action and really do that we have better information. So my advice would be is go to America's word partnership.org/deep Dive, and I'll send it to you so you can read that out. But you can help create better activation with a veteran that you've lost and he was it was not suicide as we understand it, but it was perhaps one of these other overdose, asphyxiation, external gunshot drowning suicide by cop. I experienced single drop next in the last 24 months we would desperately appreciate the opportunity. That's why there's a lot of real quick and, but I want to be a steward of time and I'm excited to hear about what Heather and Drew and Jared are doing. But I wanted at a really high level talk.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Thank you so much, Clint. It's so important as I, as I told you, I saw one of your colleagues speaking on Fox News about this. And I was just like, we have to, we have to have this conversation because, you know, it's it's devastating enough to think about the numbers we know are real. And to think that they're probably bigger is just heartbreaking to me. So yeah,

I would say that's one of the things we lost a dear friend, a really wonderful Navy Seal and Fowler black the other day, and it was a post surgical event. And all of us were sitting around at his memorial going, how sad how frustrating is it when I learned that we lost a friend of the first thing we go to, it's like, hey, that did the thing in their own life. And then you're just kind of nebulous thing and you want to believe it, but you've lost so many friends you don't know. And, you know, we have to stab a needle in the heart. Things People think that no count anymore because they do.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Yes, it's true. I think there's there's so many people in the world right now. Veteran and everyone else that has the stats right now,

causation is that different? Regardless of demographic that we're talking about here, I think that the causation of suicide is not that not that distinct. I think and that's why I commingle veterans and athletes and because it's lions and tigers. And there's something that happens like Jerry, I love looking at your backdrop and a lot of things that tell people, the water, wilderness and wild things make us feel small but not insignificant. And when you can reconcile yourself against something that's wild, big or the water in it doesn't diminish, and it doesn't diminish your problems, but it does put it back in perspective. And the genesis of all good things, this talking, talking about it with people that care about it, more than just use words.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Thank you so much. I agree with 100%. And for me, personally, nature is my happy place, though, that resonates a lot. So I would like to introduce to you all, Jarrod H Smith, and he is with the commissioned officers guide. And he believes we should assemble your Power team to win throughout military service, and more importantly, in the life field with far beyond. So Jarrod, Jarrod, tell us more about what you are up to. Yeah, thanks

Jarrod H. Smith: so much. I really privileged to be here today with this fantastic group of people and all of you out there. Thanks for joining us. So as Deanna said, I do claim myself to be the commission officers God. And there's a very particular reason behind that I'll get to in a moment, I'm entering what we call in service, the the military transition. I'm about two years out from my from my retirement off of active duty. And with that said, Nothing I say here today is representative of the US government, the US Navy, or the DOD, this is all me and me alone. But something happened in in May of this of this year, Memorial Day. And I happened to get on Facebook and I saw the the 22 push up challenge to bring awareness to the veteran suicide crisis. And that prompted me to act. Now I come across or have been informed about about this travesty, about a year ago, in October, November timeframe. It occurred or I found out about it. And I was actually going to do a research paper on it. And I didn't get to, but it was on my mind. And what I come to determine was asked myself a question, are we doing transition, right. And I had an experience a few years ago, where I was assigned as a transition assistance program officer, one of my commands, and I helped 10 officers either transition or separate out and or retire out of service and nine out of the 10. That was a really, really hard thing for them. It was really was too hard. It shouldn't have been as hard as it appeared to be from from my angle. But at that time, I was part of the problem too, because I was there to make sure that they checked all the blocks to process out of the service. Right. And that experience reflecting back on that five years later, led me to create this idea of the commission officers got in that same assignment a few years later, but in the same location. I had my own challenge with a mental health problem based on something that happened at work. And so fortunately, I was able to utilize the systems that were in place to help pull me through that. But it took a couple of years. And I think I had to do it in quiet and Idina said and I like clients A while ago, we've got to, we've got to open up communication about this, we got to talk about this. And I believe that the veteran suicide crisis, and in most any veteran challenges that that the veteran community has begins on active duty. And it begins early. So what I've done with the commissioned officers God is, is built out of model that I think we need to be following in order to make sure that we're serving this nation, to the best of our capacity to do so about fully utilizing the medical system or in the UN often in service, and not pushing that away or avoiding the medical treatment facility to get the help we need physical or mental or emotional early on, because it took me over 17 years to figure out how to use the medical system on which I finally ended earlier this year and got treatment for sleep apnea. Whenever I got diagnosed with that in February, and got the equipment I needed in March, it's changed my life since then. And I think ghosts not utilizing the medical system early and often throughout service as a detriment to our service to those that we're serving in uniform, as well as the citizenry that depend on us. And it's a disservice to ourselves. So we got to take care of our health, that's first. The second is this idea of the identity. That's a second pillar, I call it identity where our our identities after our basic training, pipelines commissioned or enlisted, are tied up in the rink. And though the weapons platform that we employ, and perhaps even the service branch with the the o's and models that we use to, you know, keep us driven to serve the nation's highest calling, right, we have to get that back, you definitely need to get your your own self identity back well ahead of this military transition period, which I call the transition battle. And for many that starts after five years in for others, it starts 25 or 30 plus years. And regardless, we need our identity, right, we got to know what it is we're here on this planet for. And I would argue to say that it's, it's not just to die for that country, there's more to it than that, that leads into post service life. And if you haven't found your identity, you're going to have some real challenges in that capitalistic economy that we defended. So that's second. And then the third pillar that are references, what I call the the military family wealth, picture, or military family finance, as many of us know, there's plenty of challenges in that space. And that's, that's just not specific to the to the military, basically, either. Because, as we know, our society, at large people or people are struggling, and it's based on a lack of education, on the systems we live and work in, from education system that did not give us the necessary skill sets, we need to understand the tax code, and pay and the banking system. And all of these, the retirement systems that we're using, like all these different things that we're not informed about, but we're just kind of told to do go along with the hurt. That's a challenge as well during transition. Because if you're not financially set, then you've got yourself in a position to where you're having to get a job to keep a roof over the head and food on the table, you're transitioning or retiring, either or you got to a standard of living that you want to maintain. And then all of a sudden you need a job. Right? So although those three pillars health status, and wealth, so they all reside on a strong foundation of relationships. And through my personal experience, over the last 18 years, I've done a terrible job at keeping relationships with people from my commands and my past. And I think that had to do a little bit with the health challenge that I've just overcome. This year. I even started mentoring a junior officer who was still in the training pipelines, about a year ago, and he sent me a list of 10, like 10 questions. And one of them that he asked me, I guess this was March or April timeframe. He said, what's the importance of maintaining relationships throughout your career? And I kind of smiled. Because, you know, a few years ago, I would have had a completely different answer. But today on like, It's crucial. It's crucial. It's relationships are what life is all about. So we've got this, we've got this culture, where we're focused on the little little mission of the day, right of the the current staff or operational assignment, that is our entire world where we're spending 10 1214 hours a day, trying to be ready to go fight that next war, but we're doing it the expense of ourselves. And we're sending our our transitioning military members back into society not prepared because they get caught in the Transition Assistance Program trap with too much to do too soon. On that takes epically multiple years if not decades of planning to to really get it right. And we've got one shot to get it right. Okay. So the commissioned officers, God is building a superhighway for the military transition. And the pre deployment, preparations planning and workups for that inevitable transition battle. Again, when we leave the training five lions, and if you didn't start, then it starts now. That way, we can prepare our active duty service members to go back to society and contribute to it, knowing why they're here and what they're doing and have a goal for the rest of their life, as opposed to simply serving the nation, because I believe that I believe there's more. So with that said, I will stop there. And I'll turn it back over, Deana. Thank you.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Thank you, Jarrod. That was that was enlightening, because for those of us who haven't been in the military, I have many family members that have been in the military, but not myself. Even though I almost died a few times. It's enlightening to hear your journey and how just, I mean, sleep apnea, nobody would think that would be tied to suicide. But I can tell you from not being able to sleep for years and years, that that has a huge impact on your mental health and your your overall health. And so it is a big deal. And so glad you got help with that. Sometimes it's it's a smaller problem that manifests itself into what we're talking about here.

Jarrod H. Smith: Did add though it did lead to chronic exhaustion and severe anxiety, and then that has a detrimental effect on relationships at home and at work. Yes, and that's why it's critical to use medical early and often. That's a good medical system. But our culture says suck it up. Buttercup, toughed it out, you know, what, you don't need to go to medical, we got work to do. And I believe that's the wrong approach is not taking care of our people.

Deana Brown Mitchell: I agree very much. So I would like to introduce everybody to Drew Robertson, with matters of vets and pack 22. And his mission is providing a safe community for veterans to thrive into a sustainable tomorrow. So kind of a continuation of what Derek was talking about.

Yeah. So for me matters Ville started back in 2013. When we, Andrew, I wasn't even actually speaking with at the time, because he had a lot of episodes that kind of led us to become estranged for the last six months. But we took his life in 2013. And I not so many people really understood PTSD. Exactly, like you said at the beginning, it's it's kind of something that we're still learning so much about mental health and what all that is and what all of it means and ways to treat it or even to treat symptoms. And so I kind of immersed myself into the education side of things, and it all came down to repurpose it, you know, I guess it's kind of some transition repurposing, finding, finding that purpose that each individual can be passionate about, because really every every single person is different when it comes down to what it is that they might want to do after back to their service. Sometimes people weren't expecting to have to transition because they will add their their career ends where TBI or something else that puts them out on a permanent level. And that could be the biggest one of the biggest shocks is, you know, going from thinking that that is your plans. Now, like I have to come up with a plan. And again, sometimes it's it's too little too late. But the, you know, the ability to repurpose people by first taken away the worry of having a roof over their head, then this being our veterans, again, the ones that are experiencing the most PTSD typically can hold down jobs, and oftentimes can end up almost so what our program does is we will take them into one of our group homes or whatever other housing will be available. And their role is to then you know, basically save their money, whether it be their VA benefits or whatever else, and to a permanent housing plan, because we don't charge them anything here, except through participation. And that participation can be anything that anybody already wants to do anyways, whether it be you know, for instance, one of our veterans in this group that I'm sitting at right now does web design, and, you know, he can use designees, physical disabilities that prevents him from from getting out there and doing some of the hands on work building, building fencing or doing anything like that. So, you know, but he's really passionate about graphic design and things like that. So you know, we let him immerse himself in that, not only for himself and whatever side presidency downers or whatever other companies he wants to help But for our organization itself, to really help drive us along, because then he's helping pave paved the way for the people behind them by having everything ready to go or an employee wherever overheads are, and, you know, through community involvement and empowerment, really by empowering them to do what it is the virtue of the life, not necessarily just what you know what meat at the time, they really, it really helps them start to thrive in a sense that they really can become part of the community and sort of eat their mark along their journey. But, you know, we're building a sustainable community and building a sustainable program, like I wanted to build, and this is all things that I thought would have helped my friend at a, you know, I had the opportunity and knew what I do. Now, all the hindsight, right, we had to come up with a formula that actually was sustainable to do so. And that being nuts on all sustainability, not only for, in every form of sustainability, it's not just the individual but the community, right. So mental health, sustainability, financial sustainability, nutritional sustainability, and all those things kind of rolled into one. And by doing that, we even had to come up with, again, formulas where some of those chattin crossover, for instance, financial sustainability and mental health sustainability, we ended up with a wolf sanctuary, that helps with their mental health by working with emotional support animals, no better support at Alamo upper warriors, and Wolf dogs, in my opinion, super amazing animals, and by them helping participate in the sanctuary. It also brings a lot of financial sustainability through the form of donations and toys, and other things that brought people's attention to our cause. So bad as well, as you know, getting the every single, recurring monthly costs, eliminated from these communities, as we build them, it makes it to where there's, there's no resistance on credit. So every time we build something, it's under another in the sense that we don't take loans, we, we build it outright, we buy the land, we hook it up with solar energy, so we never have an electric bill, we get wells, so that we're able to pull all of our water straight from the ground beneath us. And, and, and again, then everybody's got a purpose, everybody's got their own place their own space. So that if they you know, whether they need a break from socializing, or they need a break from isolation, they're able to get best, the best of both worlds. But I think one of the most important things about what we do, and again, you guys kind of already touched on that there's instead we have this open line of communication within this community. There's by already having a conversation about mental health. For instance, I went took Mental Health First Aid, instructor training and Dominus certifications, and things like that. But we have everybody do it, because by doing so, we have this ongoing mental health conversation, that anybody starts to get kind of led astray or starts to go down to get to a point where they feel like they're hitting some kind of crisis, that, that we're able to support each other through it, and only the way and only a way that empathetic community can. And you know, a lot of people kind of thought that this would be a failed model on there, because you're taking people with mental health and negative mental health, you know, coping skills and kind of sticking them all on the one. But if you have the programming infrastructure, if you agree a path or open discussion for them, particularly veterans that don't like to talk about it very much, especially PTSD. But if you if you create the conversation, and they see that they are the odd one out, they absolutely will start to get to the root or the the core of what's been ailing them. And then you can really start them on a path of healing. And again, along the way, they get the awesome effects of working with with animals and apex predators and things along the way as well which kind of gives you a different type of feeling. Way to get out of your own mind as into the moment of what it is you're doing. That kind of desire is something that only like really an X type of animal can do for people. So again, we also work with veterans and civilians that might have severe Chonnam on on the ones that go on I'll be sneaky Terry and some stalwart will be saying the most and they come to the community though, we're out scatter and and get that team Excel. We're not all men are animals. I've heard that on our program that was out. It's very poor. It's all hybrid. It's all at once. You know that. We're the kind of we give everybody that open forum to add their personal touch to things you know, each veteran gets to do something that they would like to do It constantly is just getting better and better. And the and again, the awesome, that's all flipping skill and so are changed since we started. So now so you know tremendously that it's really cool to see what people do to, you know, choke rather than these tools rather than things such as like jolt Cheryl.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Yes, thank you, Drew, I'm really excited about what you're doing. And I've gotten to have the pleasure of going out and seeing the property. And it's amazing the amount of work they've already done. And animals are, I mean, I have I walked in dogs are in my heart. So it's like, and you put that in the mountains, and you have me hooked. If I didn't have other stuff going on, I would just come live there and help you

worry that they were gonna start howling when everybody else was talking. It's like, you have to mute my phone. So if you guys are wondering what I was doing, I'm just trying to not forget anybody else put her up.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Yeah, well, thank you, thank you for for sharing what you're doing. And now I want to introduce Heather to everyone and, and I have to tell you a little story. Because I met Heather, it was probably about four or five years ago. And I, my husband, and I got to go participate in a retreat, which is what she does. And I can't even explain to you the transitions that I saw just in one day. I mean, it was unbelievable. And so I'm so excited for her to be here. And to tell you what she does. So she is the CEO and founder of Project sanctuary. And they are changing how military families heal.

Thank you, Deana, or having us all together and what an honor it is. So Drew clit. And Jared, thank you so much for your service and your sacrifices. I'm always just so honored that I can work with for years and their families. And you guys obviously are knocking it out of the park and paying it forward in all sorts of different ways. So honored to be here. I started Project Sanctuary in 2007. As a registered nurse, my background was home care and hospice. And I fundamentally believe that everybody has the right and the ability to heal and get better. And sometimes it's just creating that safe space, that sanctuary so that they can remember their purpose and what they need and their next steps and just honoring who they are is that person. Lot of times we don't take times for ourselves to create that so we can't transition as well. So we help do that. We also believe that the whole military family serves and the whole military family should heal together. And within doing that, we like to talk about how you can take one veteran fishing and you give him all the tools and support and he gets all excited. And he's got a new lease on life. And he comes back home where it's still baseline chaos. And it's just human nature for him to go back into the same normal routine. But what we do at Project sanctuary, we take the whole family fishing and give them all the tools and support that they need to support one another and move forward. Our six day therapeutic retreats, we hit on a lot of things you guys have already mentioned. So relationships, communication, post traumatic stress, how to live with it as a family. We've partnered with first command, we do financial classes, all of our families have financial advisor available for free after their retreat to help them continue on. We mix recreation with our classes, we have licensed counselors, we have social workers, rec therapist, it's a six day really powerful retreat where we're creating, empowering these families. After that we continue with the journey through our Family Support Program, whatever they may need. A lot of the things that Dina is doing really, really mirrors what we're talking about. And I believe that within the veteran community, that our veterans are the ones that have the ability to stop the veteran suicide. It's not going to be me. But I can give them the tools so that they feel better prepared to ask those hard questions to talk to their other veteran friends to be more aware to reduce that stigma within themselves, their family and their community. So it's all about that relationship. And so being a nurse, I want to teach that I want to teach them how they can have those hard conversations what they can say what they can do, because it's it's all about connectedness, connecting back with self family and the community giving them that purpose so that when they have their battle buddy who commits suicide I mean, it just rocks. Everyone to the core watched it, it is just soul crushing to watch a veteran lose one of his battle buddies knowing that, you know what, what else could I have done? How can we save more? How can we stop this? So a lot of what we do after our families come through the retreats, they're welcome back. They can learn to be better peer mentors, they can continue to work with the organization, whatever they need to do so that they feel empowered, and they can actually help. I'm sorry, but Dana, I'm gonna dive into the second question. Okay, which is why personally, this is important to me. We had a beautiful retreat in Colorado at Winding River Ranch and really tough veteran came through. He was really struggling, beautiful family life. We continue to follow them after the retreat, provided the resources offered additional support. And it just simply wasn't enough. And I got the phone call. And Bonnie said Miss Heather, we lost Brian, what do I tell the boys. That is not a phone call ever want to get again, through the healing journey with Bonnie and her boys with her still very aware of a learned a lot from Bonnie's grief. And Bonnie's been really amazing at sharing her story. In the letter she wrote one year post suicide, about how his pain didn't end that day, his pain was just given to the family. And that she was left as a half a person to raise the boys. And when you boil it down to that, and when veterans hear Bonnie speak, and they see the ramifications, and they see what it does to the spouses into the kids. And the suicide rates now for the kids are more at risk because their dad took that option. And so I don't think I know, veterans just want to stop the pain. They you know, that's all they want to do. They just want the pain to stop. But it doesn't stop. It really does it. So whatever we can do to listen to open the doors to reduce the stigma to empower these families to empower the veterans. That's what we need to do, whether it's through recreation or counseling, or they want to fly model cars or build things or go fishing, I don't care what it is, we have an obligation to make sure we're listening. And we're providing that space so that they can they can help others. So

Deana Brown Mitchell: Thank you for sharing that. Sorry, I'm all those you know.

It's it is about veterans suicide, and it is tough, and it is about having this conversation. So thank you for allowing us to have this platform today.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Yes. What any of the withdrew claims are Jared, would any of you like to answer that same question of why this is such a personal issue to you.

I mean, I unfortunately have to think about this, you haven't hypothetically say the numbers point to which even reported numbers we have lost exponentially more veterans the suicide that we have, it's a towel of the combat and training such a want. And I look at that as a combat loss, I look at the combat casualty. And I remember would carry the load when I would walk for carry the load in and I still do love the organization very much. I can always see the families of veterans who committed suicide and they're trying to be in the group they're kind of be bouldering and I would go to them and I like and you know, I was the founder of the organization and well was a you your loved one to suicide and Edgar Yeah. It was kind of this apprehensiveness and I would look at a move Can I just tell you that I consider that a combat and I consider that more an equally in potentially more harmful on that heart for combat loss because recognize we're going to lose lose friends and loved ones over there with that's just part of it as war right. But the loser when they're here when we're supposed to be safe. That's a me that feels like a leadership and get Chris cow was your friend of mine used to talk about that and it was talking about talking to his wife. They're just talking about the thought of losing someone here goes service should be incomprehensible to leaders. So we have to do with a little what we're doing and know that to a percentage it's not working in on the accident. If you don't stop, like you just find a new way to do it, you got to win. And have that same sense of urgency, it seems that creativity and sanction, you're going to stuff I've so many friends have gone to winwick River, and they come back and in probably had a we have overlapping relationships, and I'm not even aware of that in. So yeah, I've got those stories a minute, we lost another one. And you know, you have to be this to figure out what to do next. And that really kind of resourcing encouraged, I gotta believe if you're watching this, then this is a problem you're interested in solving. And so encouraging each other to continue to stay at one board. One more, there's one more that we're doing first place me what

I was gonna, I was gonna actually add to that I mean, Eric, because again, it's, it is a leadership thing. And unfortunately, there's so much stock. And I know that this probably sounds like a broken record too many. But, you know, the inaccessibility to what is supposed to be available to veterans is, I think one of the one of the biggest insults was well, you know, I know that. And I hate bringing this up, and I am the one to kind of throw this out there. But the DHS got some great individuals and great people, but they don't have a great system that said, that very system itself has been failing them, especially in men around mental health. And I, you know, I don't mind being the one to say it, you know, and I'd love to share this data with you. Because, you know, I, we, some of my veterans that are that are housed here, we put together a video that, you know, was basically talking about what it's like, We're veterans in a pet, and, you know, when you're trying to climb, you know, climb their way out of a pet, you know, and just that just the way it feels approaching the VA for help in a situation like that, and that they're just thrown pills, or just, you know, told to do, you know, irrelevant things that don't really get to the root of what it is that they're dealing with. And it's, you know, I don't know, if it's an accountability thing, if they, if they feel like if they if they talk about, you know, mental health more that they're taking, and then taking accountability for it. But the lack of leadership and the lack of acceptance of accountability for a lot of these symptoms, and things are literally killing people, like they're literally killing our veterans by, by not addressing it by not having having these things in place. Again, I could beat down the walls of the BIA and tell them what we're doing and how many lives we've saved out here without any help from them. But the cost that ad costs us compared to what they spend to get little little done in many cases, is staggering. I mean, essentially, somebody's gonna have to look and say, you know, what programs are, you know, why are we putting all this money into stuff with results, not panning out, because it's not panning out. And again, I don't want to say that, again, I don't want to say that the DEA, individuals don't have big hearts, the ones that go into it, that's why they went into it in a lot of cases. And that's why they go for the job and they want to go in, and they think they're going to change something but they largely can't. Because there's already so much bureaucracy in place that, you know, they're they're, you know, they're they they're gonna keep taking everything out of a textbook from from some other bureaucrat that hasn't lived your experience what, what the need is for the situation. So, you know, and that's, that's the leadership failure is so much faith and bureaucracy and so little and action and activity, like the people that are on the call, you know, are doers and Sayers.

Jarrod H. Smith: Yeah, Deena, this is important for me, to me for no, no, no, the fact that I came through a very dark time in my life or something that shouldn't have been dark. But while I was at that assignment in Asana, collateral duties Transition Assistance Program Officer, a former Marine took his life while I was at that command, and I had no idea why at the time, right, and I didn't, I didn't know this man. I had talked to him a couple of times. But whatever. Whatever challenges he brought with him from active duty into his post active duty life stayed with him, and wound up overcoming him. So that combined with me being a part of the problem, during that assignment, write the bureaucracy of check the blocks, make sure the admins done so that these Pope folks can go on with their lives. That was the problem. And to have recognized that this year, and to stay quiet about it and not try to share it or know that I have acquired myself about what I think is is a major problem. Saying our active duty Oh for post service life is a disservice to one people are led in the past to The people I'm serving with today, three mile leaders, who all of which are going to get out of service. And to continue to wait until 18 to 24 months out to begin these intentional and formed transition preparations would be a travesty. So as a leader,

Deana Brown Mitchell: I'm leading. Thank you, Jarrod, and Drew and Clint for your comments. I think what came up for me listening to all of you is that there's a really high percentage of suicides that happen in a 62nd decision. It's not, it's not always something that people plan, or, you know, they might have ideation for a long time. But it's, I mean, even in my own case, it was a, it was a very last minute decision. And that's the hardest part for me is because we can have the community can we can have the tools, we can have the conversations, but it only takes a minute for someone to be in a bad place and make that decision. And so, you know, I haven't figured out how to fix that. But that's, that's really important. And I hope that I can keep working on it.

I think it's one of the things that is the bad decision, you don't come back from those bad decisions all make bad decisions. You come back from bad decisions, though, and you. But one thing that I love about Chuck the American partnership and try to metric hope, because despair is the precursor. The absence of hope is despair. And, and I got some really, really decorated as I get to work with to God, Baden Restrepo and one of the gods I was like, Hey, did they didn't suck too bad you give tomorrow shot. So the trick is to make today not suck. And today, it'd be great. I'd love for day to be great. But as long as they don't suck, you're gonna lay your head down and go, I'll get tomorrow shot, right. And that's it, trying to create it, I have a whole language for daily wins a good day's work, because I grew up on a scoreboard, us grew up, I grew up, you know, as an athlete, and being able to look, you know, I get feedback, every play as a player on the sidelines in between series at halftime from a coordinator, but Coach at the end of the game, certainly in the combat profession, you get feedback pretty quickly, and then also outputting us effort and not getting so effort is appealing an outcome as a response. And when you transition in the private sector, those responses are far too late. And there's a currency and there's a deep wiring issue there that we're sensitized to a particular feedback loop and app feedback gets disrupted then it gets disoriented, that goes along and then despair sets in and despair sets the stage for the bad decision. So disrupting that decline. You is powerful and these events Heather, you know that's one of the things that one of the things that carry the load. We did watch retired and and if at the end of day you have to show us who has the problem for you as promap we care about the continuum like we this is not a new problems a big you got it for us got it after you because we're kind of like a Sony all rolled up. I love all your old buttons. Your Hands Across America, I mean, uh, but it was literally it was like a literally he was connected. You know, we ready Hill and across America was very little right. And imagine doing something like that. And again, I love your picture. Just kind of your vibe I've haloed a lot of times right and there's times when your shoots malfunction and and the concept still stop it is very appealing. Like I would really like to stop myself but I don't have the ability I don't have been. I've got to figure out how to do it. And that's where the net that is, like you said, it's spreading awareness across all humanity. Okay, create a better Cash net and your deep dive is created you get until it just do that mission adoption guide. Me I don't want to tell you how long it took me to get my medical stuff in my medical record looks like a daily basis minutes. This is an inherently impatient person. Knee capable of drawing efficiency of the process of like I can do what jobs I'm waiting. That isn't so those who are 15 years down the road in NaVi Dr. Baker's I mean it's just it has to be more agile. But one thing it fascinates me is guys, where is the assistant? He's the love military again. Here's your point. It's not an absence of heart desire or the analogy of people you're trying to visit. Don't worry, they are. The fact that you can't fire people, quick people incompetent inside the government apparatus. And that's a bad deal, man. Because paying teachers less. A lot of the systems we use would not survive. If you're a couple of them traded company couldn't use these profit systems because your shareholders we bolt in you will be fired and you get your fiduciary responsibility, go to jail, a nice jail, but you still and so nothing but elevated that same blue efficiency when it comes to the systems were asking those users to pipe into.

And just that whole 62nd thing really resonates with me. And one of the things when I used to lead peer mentor groups and listened more, I'm certainly no expert. But could watch some of the veterans who who are in leadership within my organization and take accountability for themselves and know when they were going down that rabbit hole when they were in that freefall. And they would call and say Miss Heather, I'm in a freefall. And I'm like, what do we do? And he said, I've already asked my wife to take my guns, I'm sorry, call my counselor, I've already called these two buddies have already done this. So teaching people as they're in that fall, and empowering the family and the friends Hey, you know, your battle buddy over here, he's not been doing well, or he's not been showing up, hey, let's hey, let's all take them out to lunch. We can't anymore. And of course COVID has amplified all this it's amplified, the isolation is amplified, every excuse every restaurant wants to give. And so it's up to us just to be more on point to ask those hard questions to check in on our friends. And if we need help to reach out to those that we can trust and say, Hey, I'm gonna need a little extra time here. Well,

in the Create a language of codecs or lexicon that allows you, I was downstairs yesterday with a couple of our veterans and I was telling him like, you know, what I learned very early as a transitioning athlete and transitioning operators, I gotta be around people who get what I don't know how to say, until I figure it out, or until I just don't have the saving more. And this is where I think the Wild Things go amazing is you're gonna have a powerful conversation with a wild animal and not even say a word they know when you're lying to. And that's why I think a pet one therapy and canine therapy and, and WILDerlands therapy. But again, to your point, it's got to have bursary you if I said tap rack bang, the virtually anybody who's ever carried a gun in their hand, they know the precursor that has malfunctioned. And we got to have the same type of Are you okay? You know, I'm not good. Here's articulate that here's a signal that here's an email what happens next? We look at green items really interesting. But you don't you don't when when you break the surface, you win when you break the services free diver and you demonstrate cog cognitive ability to hold your thumb up and say, Hey, I'm okay. You can you can pop by the surface, go deeper than anybody else. But if you don't come up, right, you lose. So we got to set final 1% of externality acknowledging that I'm okay, or I'm not okay. And what can I do about? Yes, agreed.

Deana Brown Mitchell: And I think, you know, for me, I think that the other the other important piece that we're not talking about here is addictions. And I know that can be a whole nother conversation by itself. But when you're, when you're in that pain, and you're using other things to, to try to make it better. That takes you down the rabbit hole we're talking about as well, even if you know, no matter what your situation is, there's a rabbit hole. And I think that that for all of us to understand that the signs of that. And in the reason I'm saying this is because I have personal experience with it. And if I would have understood what, what I was doing, and that I was in pain, and then I was drinking to keep the pain away, then I probably would have gotten help before I got to that point. But I didn't understand that. And I know people around me saw it. So it's like do the people around us. Also just notice when our behavior changes, like you're all talking about, you know, but that that could be a part of it, too. And I just want to mention that because I think it's important.

Jarrod H. Smith: Deana, that's a that's a great point. I'd like to connect that back to what Drew was saying while ago about all the services that are available, both government and not. And, you know, what really took me down this path of the commission officers God is the fact that there's what 45,000 Plus Free veteran service organizations out there offering services when we put a veteran in that environment, and then on top of that we dump on them this big long checklist of things they need to do for transition. Where do you go? What do you do first? Right? where's the where's the God to help? Right? Where's the team. And I relate this back to every every mission, any warfare area from any branch ever went on there in our entire service times, we did it on a team, we didn't go it alone, that would have been a suicide mission. So that little those little missions that we took on throughout service time, year after year, decades after decades. We plan for them on a team, we worked out for him on a team we executed on on a team. But we're taking this approach to our biggest mission of our military career transition. And we're tackling it alone with more resources than any of us can ever use. And without a team to help us win. So that's the approach, right? It's assemble your team early, no matter your time and service today, if you don't have a team yet, build one now. Start building it plan prepare, right when that transition battle when it comes and may come unexpectedly, if you get hurt, right, and you have to be medically discharged. Or if you decide, you know, five years in that it's not for you. Well, you would have been planning for five years. And it's not a surprise, you know, that's coming seven months later. So we, we take this idea of the team and the what were referred to as the military readiness weapons cycle. Alright, we apply to our individual selves, and the military is not going to do that for so that's not the military's mission. military's mission is to go break things and kill people, right. That's what the nation charges us to do. Right and deter against that, if at all possible. That's the goal not to have to go execute, but to deter against it. But I think we need to apply these concepts that we're so familiar with, with our weapons platforms, to our individual selves, assemble teams around us, with the family, and other right family teams to approach transition as a unit, right, not siloed as our own individual family, right, and not only depend on free handouts from a scarcity mindset, but pay experts to help you go faster, right? My business is a for profit business at a very, very reasonable rate. Because I want veterans and active duty to have an abundance mindset, not be strapped by, I don't have enough cash to do what I need to do. You know, we need to get over this. Let's wait three hours at IHOP for free pancakes on Veterans Day, Memorial Day, and instead make pancakes ourselves at the house and pay somebody to help us live better lives when we need those services or products. And it's radical approach to what to what I've, I've come up in over the last 15 or 20 years, right. But I think it's a necessary one to empower the veteran and empower the military family to live life to the fullest. And not live a scarcity mindset of of there not being enough. But But thanks for that. It's just having access to so many resources, whether it's an addiction we've got or a challenge that we need help with. You also need somebody to help you navigate all those resources so that you can do it efficiently and use your time wisely. Because time is our most valuable asset. And I think we lose sight of that in this culture where your time is owned by others for the duration of your military career.

Deana Brown Mitchell: That's very true. Jarrod, thank you for that point. Because I think, you know, I've been learning a lot about mindset this year, because for 30 years, I was so busy in a career and owning a business that that was the last thing on my mind. And it is true that that there's work you can do around your mindset that completely changes your life, or it has in my case anyway. And and I think it's, you know, for a long time, I thought it was just kind of something people did and I didn't think I needed it. And I didn't think it was important and I have changed my mind about that. And I think it is very important. So I would like to ask you all one more question and say, like, if you could, if resources were unlimited, and you could have whatever you need to be able to help veterans in these situations moving forward, like what would you need and what do you think is most important in your organization's to See that? wants to go first

All I was gonna say it was like we and I interrupt apologetically only because I've got a hard stop here. But I was gonna ask anybody that listen, they go to American warrior partnership.org/deep Dive, you're in a position of feed intelligence and information and data that can be helpful in changing the way we do things and more accurate representing problems we can distribute, you know, what's needed in other communities? Because people are like, how do we make that net tighter that mesh finer, and catch more people in, you know, in that fall. So I'm grateful for this, this is a great opportunity, I'm sorry to have to leave the call. I'm excited to hear the notes following this as we kind of wrap this thing up. And, and one of the things I feel people learn this very early at the Naval Academy, got out of find this battlecry, this thing that just years and in mind became vast as a true and holding fast was waves rise against the ship, you got to look for something to hang on to and you got a whole facet of things that work. And you got to stay true to where you said, you're going, where the waves came in the first place. And so I just encourage all of you all to hold fast and stay true. And one of the things I think we ought to recognize is we need to be willing to not see the fruits of our labors. And just know, especially when you're treating invisible scars, you gotta be okay not seeing the fruits of your labors and just trust that it's a worthy mission. And it is. So I appreciate you all thank you for the opportunity to be on this. And there's work to be done.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Thank you for being here. Clint. Thank you, Clint receipt. Okay, Heather, about you. And

I'm also with America's for your partnership. So it there's a lot to be done with collaborating and drew, I am so wanting to go out with you and see what you do. And oh my god, that looks amazing. I've already texted two vets. And I'm like what gave up right? He's a Colorado holy cow. I

showed them earlier before the rest of you guys came on, but it'd be actually nailed it was on the other side of this railing, you'd see that we have our altos just kind of walking around down there watching us that's a share key the alpha female and Apaches over there laying down by the gate. Anyways, but those are two 90% Plus Arctic Timberwolves that they are, they're kind of like, if you're, if this was a video game, they'd be like the final boss. Yeah, now. Really cool. Because there, you have to earn their trust, and you have to earn their respects to be able to ever go in the Alpha pan, I maybe take a handful of people in there at all, they had to get to know them, they had to earn their respect. And you have to really, really center yourself before you can walk in there. Because you have to, you know, think about what to do or what not to do if he was to do something, or they were to do something, because that's their debt, and that's their home. So again, it's, it's like you started out earlier with the animal therapy and inequity therapy, or canine therapy, this form of canine therapy, it's much different because there are much different behaviors. And again, it comes from a bond. And it also comes from certain vibrations. And really, if you don't go in there, respecting the situation, I was not going to be good. So you can't be in your head about trauma, you can't be in your head about your depression, you can't be in your head, you have to let those things go. And what it does is it starts to condition your brain a little bit towards you know, not necessarily you can't make trauma go away, you can make memories disappear necessarily, but you could definitely again practice doing other things, which you know, leads to more of that rather than more of the focusing on the trauma or other things. It's really it's one of the most amazing things to watch it better and worse civilians or you know, people in in the mental health field to have the interaction or work on you know, working our way into the Alpha pan or some of the some of the more dominant male you know, pens because, again, you kind of see like, there's your decompression when they realize that they're not as in danger as their mind built up, or do they walk them there and then they're just like, Wait, okay, as long as I respect this animal they respect me so then they just focus on that I'll you know, and again, that keep that center and somebody that might have been in a crisis depression on arrival, looking looking like they want to do cartwheels out of this place because of the bad Back to the BBS animals have. And that's not just like, you know, yesterday's veterans, you know, the ones that just you know are turning, they're still in transition on. There's a Vietnam veteran that was one of the first tours I ever took, he was one of the most amazing experiences for me, because that was when I first really really saw, like, the medicinal value of everything that we were doing. And he, I suffered a range of orange lung cancer from from Vietnam. And he, he's already he's not raising, he wasn't doing very well, as daughter was setting and setting things up her grandchildren were volunteering here, or I'm sorry, his grandchildren were volunteering here. And so when his daughter arranges they would rate to do a tour before we were ready. We're still dealing with dogs over here. And she kept canceling on me. And I'm like, man, what gives? You know, like, come on, I you know, I'm trying to get volunteers out here and get this work done. And then I realized, Oh, hey, like she she calls says, hey, you know, some days he's just not able to get out of bed. You know, so bad like, and so I was like, Well, okay, so there was like, you know, what, me setting aside of lunchtime? You tell me when you need to make it up here with them. And I'll just make it happen that day. Yeah, so she did. She did finally I'm after like three attempts. He was like good to go on on a trip out for the day it comes up here. And I mean, his I think one of the first him spaces all red. I mean, he looked sick, like he looks genuinely sick. And too. So I opened up this door to this cab and then that's attached with our wolf hands and two wolves just jumping right into the cabin. And what was what was incredible was the animals too, they just right to right to the right so the guy that we're talking about there's a whole family in there but both of them are just like regular glued to this guy. And you know and the one that's had shy one of the one of our most had shy animals went through crazy abuse and trauma and everything else you know, goes up to this guy and Lexa space which we had been working on for you know a couple of weeks already just like bonding you know, looking for some kind of affection at all like and then he's just you know, but very very edge shy and this guy he's never seen before is better and you know, zero comes in and and it's like the animal since then they knew the that that and again, somebody that looks like they are struggling to get out of the car. So he was struggling to get up here for three you know, three four times. Again, looks like he was going to car wheel out of here like I was like, man, somebody stop this guy. He's already prayer night on down because you know, everything that he's gone through and to see that that shift. And I know I'm told for some people even in the worst condition, the last three days the effect of this place, and the vibes and their ad and our immersion and the emotional aspects. I mean, people are carrying it with them for some time and so incredible.

Deana Brown Mitchell: It is an incredible place. I can't wait to come back and welcome

by the way the other guys if you ever look up Decker's Colorado, Decker's, Colorado was about 3.4 miles north of us on highway 67. It gives you an idea of where we're at on a geographical level. It's a little bit of a drive. We're 45 minutes from anywhere. And that's still about an hour from from somewhere.

Deana Brown Mitchell: It's true, but it's all beautiful. And it's like a cathartic experience just to get to you. And then you know, it's it's an amazing, amazing thing I had I had Huskies for 15 years and I'm I also spent some time in Alaska and got to study wolves a little bit so I'm, I'm yeah, you know how you feel about Wolf.

Anyway, not to forget Gus though. Gus has the PTSD service German Shepherd who lives here on the right in the group home with the veterans. He's the LD non won't go out on the spot, but, but he's PTSD service trained. So yeah. Your problems he likes to listen to months.

Deana Brown Mitchell: That's awesome. So Heather, or Jared, do you guys have anything you want to say about resources or anything that your organization's need to move forward with your plans or anything around suicide?

I will just I'll keep it short, because I know we're running out of time. But yeah, Projectsanctuary.us. And whether you support us or you support drew or you support Jared, I don't care. As long as you're helping military families and you're paying it forward. I don't care. But get involved. Check out these programs. Check us out. See what you can do see what you can learn so that you can better understand veteran suicide and what's going on And then you'll know how you can personally help. But we always need volunteers. And we always need people to expand our mission and let other veterans know it's not okay to spiral down, it's not okay to stay stuck in your basement. There are programs out there that that work. And there are people that care and spread that message.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Thanks. Thank you. How about you here?

Jarrod H. Smith: Yeah, I guess from a from an entrepreneur standpoint, which is what I'm aiming to become so that I can generate a cash flow and then do like others say pay that forward, right. There are nonprofits in the life for people that can't afford it. I mean, what I could really use was, it would be a six figure grant from somebody out there to pay back office personnel to take care of the business stuff that has to happen for a business. And then I can focus on the message and impacting impacting lives and military families. Right. So I'm looking for resources in that arena, because starting a venture like this on active duty is extremely challenging. Like we have a very demanding workload, as well as on this on the off hours is, is challenging, but recognize that to try to wait and establish or start a business six months before you get out of service, that's a bad plan. Especially if you don't have unless you're not already financially free for the most part, right. So that's why I started this early because I recognize we've got transition all backwards, we're waiting until the backend to start thinking about it on health and status and wealth, building relationships, we're going to need eventually to go out into society, and work at a corporation or in government or become entrepreneurs. So I would ask that anybody that's listening today or hears this in the future, that if you've got servicemembers in service, or if you are a service member, that you act now, and then you go take care of our people, by prompting them to act. And what we've got in common veterans and active duty. And the families is this transition. We're all going to transition one day. That's the common thread by which to start conversations and assignments, we think about transition. Right? Yeah, again, it goes back to communication, building relationships. All right, let's have fun in this life. Because that's what it's here for. That's all that's that's my ask been. So thank you. And it was a pleasure. With the the other guests on here. Had the your comment about the impact on the family is going to carry a phone with me forever, that may be come a main part of my message, because that is so important. We include pain doesn't stop, it's transferred to your family.

We included we encounter families when we do the tiny house tiny home housing for veterans, if they have family that needs to come in for the same reasons to they can go through it together. The worst thing you'd ever want to do is separate. You know a lot of mother or father, that's that's going through crisis from their loved ones about just makes things worse saw that it is a thing of the family. Sure. Sure. I agree. Yeah.

Deana Brown Mitchell: Yeah. Thank you, Jarrod.

Thank you, Deana. Wonderful job.

Deana Brown Mitchell: I just want, I just want to thank all of you for being here today and having this conversation with me, because obviously, I am super passionate about it. But I have not been in the military myself. So I really appreciate all of your input in this conversation. And thank you to the viewers and the future people who will be watching this video, we really hope it will help you. And I hope you would reach out to any of us if you have questions or you need help. And as we all understand this year specifically has been very difficult for everyone. The percentage of the humans struggling with mental health this year is unprecedented. And the holiday season is upon us. So please reach out to those that are close to you, and have the conversation. Maybe let them know what it looks like when you have a bad day. So they know how to support you. And that happens. And hopefully this year, if anything is a blessing out of COVID. It's the fact that I feel like people are talking about mental health more, which will will help us get rid of that stigma and help people get the help they need so that you don't stay silent and at risk. And with that said, this panel discussion was the start of a series and we're going to have two per month starting in January through April. And we're going to have different topics we're going to in January we're going to talk to parents and we're also going to talk to use but you can follow our website at realize foundation.org Or you can you can also just Google save a life challenge and find us so I hope you will subscribe donate if you're able and join us for the next panel on January 14. And we wish everyone a happy holiday season and I pray pay for all of you to stay safe.