Personal Transformation for Social Change: A Coach's Journey of Self-Exploration and Advocacy with Joana Dos Santos - Ep.149

Hey welcome to she coaches coaches, I'm your host Candy Motzek. And I'm going to help you find the clarity, confidence and courage to become the coach that you are meant to be. If you're a new coach, or if you've always wanted to be a life coach, then this is the place for you. We're going to talk all about mindset and strategies and how to because step by step only works when you have the clarity, courage and confidence to take action. Let's get started. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of she coaches coaches. I have a special guest with me today. She is one of my clients and her name is Joana Dos Santos. Now, let me tell you a little bit about her. She is the co founder and CO CEO of cosign. It is a coaching and consulting practice that invigorates hope and possibility through personal and organizational transformation for social change. She coaches people to live and work to their fullest potential in ways that align with their values. Additionally, she and her partner, partner with organizations to create diversity, equity and inclusion plans of action, including co creative strategic planning and equitable policy advising at any stage of a group's journey. So that's her official bio. But for those of you who know my podcast, you guys also know that I love to talk just a little bit about the individual. And I want you to know that she is a woman of deep understanding. And she leans so far into her places of discomfort as she grows. She doesn't shirk away from any uncomfortable emotion, she has true courage, and she really embodies what it is to be a coach. That is her gift. She connects with her clients deeply. And she is deeply human. And I'm honored to have worked with her as well. Joana Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for how you weekend in that is such a lovely intro, I think I'm gonna stop your intro for mine.

I'm so glad. Listen, I do this all the time. And often, you know, like we work together for many months, right. And I know that you've graduated, and we'll go on to a, you know, a next part of our relationship. But I want you to know what I see in you, too. And so when I get to say it publicly like that, for the you know, my clients who actually become guests on the show, I just really want you to know that that was from my heart, and that I so appreciate you very, very much.

Thank you, I so appreciate you too. And that is why I chose you as my coach.

Let's dive into it. You have such a varied background? Tell us a little bit like how did you come to the world of coaching? It's part of your journey.

I think like many other coaches that the journey is no linear. And it starts with a lot of questions and a lot of like, what are we doing with our life? So early on, in my career, I was a community organizer fighting for social justice really like in our the work that I was doing was specifically rooted in racial justice, community organizing. So I was in that space. I was a nonprofit executive. And I did a little work related to how do we change systems? What are the policies and practices that need to change, and I entered the space of diversity, equity and inclusion. And the more that I did this work, the more that I was like, there's something missing here, there's something missing, we can change all the systems. But if we don't do the internal work, if we don't change our values, the systems are going to continue to perpetuate the things that we want to change. We're just going to call them something different. And don't get me wrong, the policy change work and systems change work is super important. And I'm very aligned with that as part of my consulting practice. But I also wanted to make sure that I was doing something that got to the values change work, and how do we change ourselves so that we can change the world. And so I embarked on a journey of self exploration. Because my body was like, we're gonna do this differently. We cannot continue moving in this direction. And as part of that exploration, I realized that I really, really enjoy having deep vulnerable conversations. is the lead to healing and growth. And that growth is hopefully aligned with personal transformation for social change. So that is how I got here.

Wow. So that's a lot. So starting at the organizational level, and looking at it from the organizational the system, approach the policy approach. But was it like it, you know, when I think of like levels of things, it's like that the level was a little bit too far up the hill, you need to start farther down the hill, start at the beginning of the path instead of midway through the path, before you can really affect that change. And I think that that's the I think that's the interesting thing, right? Like, there are so many people right now, where we talk about justice, we talk about all these changes that are so needed in our systems, and our countries and our organizations and in ourselves. But to have the courage to then explore, and to look at your own way of being your own way of thinking, you know, your own assumptions. What was the what was the most surprising thing for you in your personal exploration? What do you find?

Oh, so, so many things. Um, but I think I, one of the things that, that struck me most and really how it connects with coaching is that I was really scare was saying things that were my truth, I was a shame, I was scared that it will have ripple effects. If I sent him a public, that they would come back then like, hardly in many ways, and but he never said them, I never processed them. I could not let them go and figure out okay, what can I do now? Because I was stuck in this place. And, and why thing was really key is that, in our coaching is really important is that it's not only about like, acknowledging, and letting go, but it's also like, how do we build a plan after we let that go, right. And that's what I think makes a difference with like therapy, right? Like, therapy is like, okay, we're just going to process and then we're going to stop, and we go to this, like, we're going to acknowledge and let go, and then we're going to start that plan. And that, and that, to me was, was such a magical thing to like, okay, we can acknowledge anything, that we're scared of saying out loud, that has to do with how we change our systems that how we feel within our systems, they might be like, how we see ourselves reflected in society, or, you know, like, the, the pain or privilege, the oppression that the systems can give us our social identities, all these things. And, and once we acknowledge that, we can move past that and figure out what we want to happen in that.

So one of the things that you said was about feeling embarrassed, feeling shame, about, you know, not actually voicing some of these thoughts. And I think that that's key to probably what you bring to your coaching with your clients as well, is to create that safe space where things can be acknowledged, do you do anything specific to make it a safe place for them to land, and to show up and to express?

Um, I wouldn't say that it's anything special. But I think that what I do is I am very open and say, we are going to talk about how systems of advantage and oppression affect your goals affect your growth that you wanna, that you want to bring into your life. We're gonna talk about how your social identities, impact, we're gonna name it, we're going to, like, just inform our sessions through that lens. And we're going to do whatever we need to do, right? Like, we might be talking about, like, I don't know, like a career change, or, you know, whatever it is, but we're gonna be like, okay, as a person, we do social identities. These are the things that we need to keep in mind, the systems that we're working with, and how do we take them into account so that we can work towards your goal?

So just a sec, there was something that you said. So you said that you don't do anything special about creating safety. And I don't think that's quite true. Because showing, I have a phrase that says coach goes first, you know, the coach, does the work first. In that courageous way shows up willing to do the uncomfortable, willing to grow willing to stretch. And that paves the way for the client to feel safe. And there's something specific about how you approach these uncomfortable parts of the conversation and uncomfortable areas is that you go all in with it. It's like, there is there is an aspect of Glee, I would say, like, it's going to be so uncomfortable, it's going to be great. Most of us, we say, it's going to be so uncomfortable. Oh, no. And and we've, you know, we pull away, but you don't, you push it in, right, like, you're welcome. And literally, it's almost with Gliese. So, you know, for those of you that are listening to the audio, you can hear it in our voice. If you're watching the video, you're going to see it as well. But there is something about this, oh, this is going to be so exciting. Not because of the discomfort, but because of what's going to happen. Because we face these things, we acknowledge these things, we look at all of the aspects, right. And I think that is something special that you do, I don't think that that's all that common. So I just want to put that out here. And so for the listeners, so many of the people listening to this show, are all different ethnicities, all different colors, all different backgrounds. And so you know, this is the work, right? Like it's not, you know, we have to be aware of these systems of privilege and systems of oppression that we're working within. And really, it's only been, I don't know, would you say within the last five or 10 years that these things have, you know, really become part of our common conversation, but they're so valuable for how people can grow. So, talk me through this next part, you come with this Glee to the place where we're going to talk about the uncomfortable stuff. But then I know that you really dive deep into their values into their purpose. And then the what's next for them? How does that work? Talk to me about that.

Yes, I my coaching school is it's based on transpersonal psychology. So we look at not only like a pressing material, aspect, but How is that connected with our higher self and our greater purpose. And that's cool is called, it's the branch of psychoanalysis. And with that, we have a cycle that we call like, the act of will. And so through that we think about, we grind yourself, and what is the purpose, or whatever it is that we want to do, like, it's a life purpose, or it is like, you know, the purpose of like, what you're gonna do in the next two hours, or whatever we're talking about. Right? We look at, like, what are the multiple possibilities for us to experience that purpose, right to live in that purpose, and then choose one, and, and what's right, and this is one of the beautiful things that I have learned to practice with you candy is like, let's just test it out and see what happens. And then we hit adjust and change. And it's a beautiful error process. And once we choose that, we will look for ways to affirm that choice to affirm that purpose, we set up a plan of action. And sometimes they're just like one action items, some tissue group, your whole workflow, whatever works for you, and then celebrate them manifestation of that purpose. And, and what I find is that usually folks come in with like, the thing that they think they want to work on. And then it's like, this, like the thing behind the thing that I really wanted to do. And that is the true purpose of our work together. And it's just so beautiful to be in that space with folks.

That's so great. And so this brings me to the next piece is that I know that you're very intent on cycles, you know, and looking at our life in a different way. Can you talk a little bit more about this the cycles that are present?

Yes, I believe that cycles are really what make up our life, our universe, right? Like a cycle is a sequence of recurring events or processes that repeat in the same order and have a pattern right? And so when we slow down and take a look at the cycles, that we that we engage in the the nature based ones and the social, the social constructor, once we figure out like, which part of the cycles with driving, which part of the cycles are challenging for us that we might need some support, and we can figure out how to structure life in alignment with our cycles in instead of working against them, so, for example, if you are a night person, and you really, really push yourself to do things in the morning, when like your brain really functions that night, you're doing a disservice to yourself. Because your brain, you're just, that's just not how your body works, right. And the same thing for like a morning person, if you're a morning person who wants to stay up late, and like do so in, in the way that I do coaching would really pay attention to the cycles, as a grounding piece to figure out how to bring that thing that they want to bring in into the life in alignment with their natural cycles, their societal cycles, and even question like, are this cycles working? Or do they need to be interrupted? Do they need to change? Um, I know, you kind of take it from there and match it with that purpose.

And so one of the things that I like about this reminder about cycles is that when you start looking for them, you see them everywhere, right, so you've got the cycle of breathing, you've got the cycle of blood flowing through your body, you've got the cycle of your hormones, the cycle of the sun rising and setting and the moon, you know, the cycle of the moon, as it goes from New Moon to full moon, you've got the cycle of time. And so you've got the cycle of the earth turning on its access, everything that we that is part of sort of our human nature. And the nature around us there is this feeling of cycle. And yet, within our culture, we have this linear, mechanistic approach. And I think that that is a really interesting. I don't know what the word is, and it's sort of an interesting thing to consider is that, you know, how many times do you push this linear approach, you know, you just keep on keeping on, even though maybe this is a cycle of time of your life where an app would be good, you know, like a simple, or it's the time when it's time to go all out, like you've got the energy, go and make it happen. And so how, like, I can see the value in recognizing cycles, and including them in coaching, so that our people start to think about themselves in that way. Do you have any specific tips about how you might introduce somebody to cycles? Or how they consider it?

Yes, I think like, the first thing to do is to kind of start to observe. Right? So So sir, when do you feel your best? Or what do you have most energy when they feel I can do this? And when they feel like, gosh, I just, this is not functioning, I am just so tired, and start to notice if there's a pattern there. Right? start to notice like something as simple as like, do you get? are you most excited in the morning? are you most excited at night? Right? are you most excited at the beginning of an engagement, let's say a meeting? are you most excited at the beginning of the meeting, maybe like you're a person who likes to start things and gets really excited. Or maybe you're a person who dreads beginnings, and like really enjoys the middle or the end? And that is your job? Right? It's a start noticing, like, where are you? Where are your best working you enjoy more, um, for maybe a week, maybe a day, right? I'm anxious about it as to what happens.

Right? So being aware, just noticing and that's, you know, that's so key with everything to do with coaching, right is self awareness. That's kind of always where it starts. So be aware of how, what's going on for you when you feel energized, when you don't journal on it to get some clarity around it. And then once you know that these are your cycles for activity, or you know, good thinking, or a cycle for more rest, then somehow we try to integrate it with the purpose that we've discovered, and the actions that we've chosen to take to further that purpose. The place that I always struggle myself is impatience. So I'm like, Well, I know I'm a morning person. But if I really want to get something done, I know that I'll continue to push long after or my energy has dropped? So, have you experienced that with clients? Are you? You know, are you seeing that? And how do you how do you got them?

Um, I think that the first thing we we do is we experiment, right? And we're like, okay, let's just try it out. Let's just try it out. And see I had had a few clients discuss winter who were very concerned about the winter and having the winter blues and like, you know, it having to push when he was gloomy. And, and one of the things we we talked about was like, what if you decide that the winter is a time of hibernation, and just hibernate, it doesn't mean that you're not going to do anything, but maybe you don't push yourself, maybe you allow yourself to take that nap. Maybe you do some more of like the maintenance work that you might have to do, maybe you're on the site to start a Yahoo and your your trouble. There are solutions, right? As fans, and let me tell you that, folks, like once after, right, right, the the New Years, they were like, that was one of the most radical and amazing things that I experienced. That was I did not feel the winter blues as much I allowed myself to be in the cycle of nature, the cycle of restaurant the winter. And that had a really big impact on folks, because then they were energized when spring came. And they were like, Okay, I can start thinking about what I want to do in this different way. And it was really wonderful. So experimentation, I think and checking it out. And seeing what happens is is one of the ways that we work through coaching.

Yeah, and basically proving it to yourself, you know, here's an idea, I have some awareness, I journal about it. And then I get curious. And I experiment and then see, see what happens. I love that. So so many things we've talked about, is there anything else about cycles that you want to add to the conversation?

Um, I would say that honoring cycles is so key to our human experience, because it allows us to, to work with them and create roadmaps that are in alignment with our values, with our flow with the way that we work best, and we can actually get more done.

So that's the counterintuitive piece, right? We think that by honoring our cycles will do less. But in fact, what if it means that you actually accomplish more, more easily? Not that it's without effort, but with ease, as opposed to pushing all the time? I wonder what the result on? You know, like, in our quality of life, I wonder how the quality of our life would change by honoring our cycles? What do you think?

I think we'll live a more meaningful and purposeful life and a more joyful life. Now, that is not going to be challenging. No, that is not going to have a gloomy day session. And all the things but it's, there's, I believe that when we live in alignment with our cycles, we're like, this is worth it. We're satisfied with the life that we lead, and I'm here for the ride.

Yeah, that's everything right? To be satisfied to be satisfied and fulfilled and have meaning. So wonderful. Wow, we've really covered everything from A to Zed. So show Anna, there are people who want to find out more about you. Where can they find out more about you? Where can they connect with you?

Probably the easiest way is my website is co-syn.com its C O- S Y N .com . And you can also email me at J O A N A at co-s y n.com. Joana@co-syn.com

and I'll make sure to put those things in the Episode Notes as well. So I would encourage any of the listeners if you're find yourself curiosity, just piqued with this conversation, click through and go and check everything out that she's doing some amazing work. And I really think that I really think that this is moving our path of humanity forward. You know, so many people are tired and drained and you know for As coaches, we need to watch our energy and take good care of ourselves. But also, this might just be the extra thing that you need to support your clients in living their most meaningful life to. So thank you so much for joining me. It's been such a great conversation.

Thank you so much for having me.