Sign up to get updates from us
Debra has sat on many boards over the years for multiple organizations that were all going in different directions with all different cultures. While she understood the importance of being professional at all times, she also knew the importance of speaking the truth while respecting her peers' voices.
After many years, Debra recognized the need for personal alignment in her professional endeavors. She has so much to give and loves being of service, so as a retired CPA she aligned herself with a nonprofit hospital board where she could not only meet their mission, but feel enthusiastic about doing so.
Debra's Bio:
President & Chief Financial Officer of Georgia Proton Care Center Inc., a subsidiary of Provident Resources Group Inc. Immediate Past President and Chief Financial Officer, Provident Resources Group Inc.
Since 2002, Ms. Lockwood has been a member of Provident’s senior management team, responsible for financial oversight and the development and implementation of strategic and operational initiatives in senior housing, advancing education, healthcare and affordable housing. Prior to 2002, Ms. Lockwood gained extensive professional experience as a practicing certified public accountant during which time she provided business valuation, consulting, and audit and tax services.
With her commitment to public service, Ms. Lockwood served in healthcare on the Boards of Baton Rouge General and Woman’s Hospital, in affordable housing on the Board of Commissioners of the Louisiana Housing Finance Agency, and as national chairman of the American Heart Association 2010-11.
Education:
Master of Business Administration, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA, 1999 Bachelor of Science in Accounting, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA, 1977 Professional Accreditations and Affiliations Certified Public Accountant (CPA), Louisiana Accredited in Business Valuation with the American Institute of CPAs Member, Louisiana Society of CPAs (LSCPA) Lockwood has served on the Strategic Planning Committee, Litigation Services, and Peer Review Committees of the LSCPA.
About Melinda:
Melinda Lee is a Presentation Skills Expert, Speaking Coach and nationally renowned Motivational Speaker. She holds an M.A. in Organizational Psychology, is an Insights Practitioner, and is a Certified Professional in Talent Development as well as Certified in Conflict Resolution. For over a decade, Melinda has researched and studied the state of “flow” and used it as a proven technique to help corporate leaders and business owners amplify their voices, access flow, and present their mission in a more powerful way to achieve results.
She has been the TEDx Berkeley Speaker Coach and worked with hundreds of executives and teams from Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Caltrans, Bay Area Rapid Transit System, and more. Currently, she lives in San Francisco, California, and is breaking the ancestral lineage of silence.
Website: https://speakinflow.com/
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/speakinflow
Instagram: https://instagram.com/speakinflow
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpowerall
Thanks for listening!
Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.
Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!
Subscribe to the podcast
If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.
Leave us an Apple Podcasts review
Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.
Hello, everyone, welcome to the Speak In Flow
Melinda Lee:podcast, I have a very special treat and amazing leader who
Melinda Lee:does so much for the community. Welcome Debra Lockwood, she was
Melinda Lee:the former president of the provenance Resources Group, the
Melinda Lee:National chairperson for the American Heart Association from
Melinda Lee:2010 to 2011. And right now she gives back to our cancer
Melinda Lee:patients, as the President of the Emory Proton Therapy Centre,
Melinda Lee:or group, centre, centre. Thank you so much, Deborah, it's
Melinda Lee:really nice to have you. I've heard so much about you through
Melinda Lee:your amazing daughter, Sarah. And so I love to be able to
Melinda Lee:share like your experiences with our audience, because I feel
Melinda Lee:like they can have so much takeaways from your leadership
Melinda Lee:and all that you've done to help the community. And also what are
Melinda Lee:some of those challenges that you've experienced to rise to
Melinda Lee:the top? And so my first question to you is, in your
Melinda Lee:career in your profession, I'm sure you've had gone through a
Melinda Lee:lot. But what is one key moment that you felt that that was a
Melinda Lee:challenge for you? And what did you do to overcome that
Melinda Lee:challenge? What was happening? So first, I was in my late 20s,
Melinda Lee:which meant I wasn't very experienced compared to now. And
Melinda Lee:I was being challenged by partners and a firm that I
Melinda Lee:worked with at apt to bring in new clients. And I was just
Melinda Lee:doing a great job as as a CPA doing what I do. Not really
Melinda Lee:understanding, well, why do I have to do duck clients just
Melinda Lee:show up? And I was then said, Well, you need to go get him. I
Melinda Lee:didn't know how that would happen. And so I was asked to be
Melinda Lee:on a board, and to test myself to see if I could represent the
Melinda Lee:firm represent myself. It was a I had to take a deep swallow
Melinda Lee:then and say, Can I do this? Because I didn't know. But
Melinda Lee:remember your thoughts that were going on the feelings that you
Melinda Lee:had?
Debra Lockwood:You know, I think I underestimated what the
Debra Lockwood:responsibilities would be number one, because I did not realise
Debra Lockwood:what a board was, honestly, that a working board was really
Debra Lockwood:contributing to their mission, and to get them to achieve their
Debra Lockwood:goals. And I didn't understand that well, nor did I understand
Debra Lockwood:that a well run board is one that has people with different
Debra Lockwood:expertise to provide what a full board needs, whether it's
Debra Lockwood:something specific, specific with a mission, whether it's
Debra Lockwood:accounting, arts, legal, or it could be government relations,
Debra Lockwood:all these things. And when you start realising that a board
Debra Lockwood:really is made up of a lot of individuals with certain
Debra Lockwood:expertise, when you put them together, you have a full
Debra Lockwood:company basically running, right. I mean, yeah, it was not
Debra Lockwood:what the teams are, when you're in, if you're thinking about the
Debra Lockwood:leaders, and you are all leaders of a part of a team, and you
Debra Lockwood:have your specific niche or expertise, you're providing the
Debra Lockwood:well rounded that view of where you're going in a project. And
Debra Lockwood:so same thing with a board. And so but you went in there, not
Debra Lockwood:really knowing the full scope, and then you went in, sometimes
Debra Lockwood:not knowing everything. Well, I did. But I also understood that,
Debra Lockwood:you know, if you're a CPA, they're almost always going to
Debra Lockwood:tattoo you as treasurer, immediately. And that puts you
Debra Lockwood:in a leadership role. Again, not sure whether I could do it, but
Debra Lockwood:I was, I was actually in my wheelhouse because I knew how to
Debra Lockwood:do what I was being asked to do. But I also felt a greater
Debra Lockwood:responsibility to do it in a better way, or whatever. But I
Debra Lockwood:found that that was really, once I knew my craft, in this case,
Debra Lockwood:I'm a CPA, once I knew my craft, I knew a lot more than a lot of
Debra Lockwood:people who did something in another craft, right, and
Debra Lockwood:putting them together made all work better. So that helped me
Debra Lockwood:have more confidence. I don't walk into any group talking
Debra Lockwood:right away.
Debra Lockwood:But I wait to hear I like to listen first to hear what is
Debra Lockwood:expected of the members. And sometimes there's more to it.
Debra Lockwood:And then I'm suggesting now, but you learn very quickly, where
Debra Lockwood:you can help or not, or what you enjoy doing or not, and which
Debra Lockwood:boards you like or not, which all of that has happened to me
Debra Lockwood:over the years. But when I do hit a home run, and I am in a
Debra Lockwood:place where I'm actually contributing to the health of
Debra Lockwood:the organisation and helping them read the meet their
Debra Lockwood:mission, and at the same time collaborating with other
Debra Lockwood:business people or non business people that just kind of broaden
Debra Lockwood:my perspective. And those people I still see to this day 40 years
Debra Lockwood:later and I you know remembering you on this board. Yeah, I
Debra Lockwood:remember that it was fun. Or it wasn't, there was a difficult
Debra Lockwood:time. And we all work through it. So that's really, I think,
Debra Lockwood:understanding what is needed before you walk into it. Right?
Debra Lockwood:Not not pigeonholing yourself, per se, because, right?
Debra Lockwood:Connected to being a leader, right? Just because I want to be
Debra Lockwood:a CPA and I can do finances doesn't mean that I'm also not
Debra Lockwood:capable of being the president. Yeah, no, you said something
Debra Lockwood:very key here. So you went in with your specific craft a CPA.
Debra Lockwood:But then once you got in, you really listen to other people,
Debra Lockwood:and found some secret nasty, maybe some interconnections?
Debra Lockwood:Yes. And no moment? And where can we all together? Create
Debra Lockwood:something, but that is scary sometimes. Because all a lot of
Debra Lockwood:the times we want to go in all prepared and know exactly what,
Debra Lockwood:what the conversation is gonna look like. And so you're
Debra Lockwood:encouraging us like, just go in no your crap. But then listen,
Debra Lockwood:listen to what's going on. I have a question that have you
Debra Lockwood:been in a conversation and one of those meetings where someone
Debra Lockwood:doesn't agree? So it sounds like you were able to build
Debra Lockwood:alliances, collaborations? And what about when someone doesn't
Debra Lockwood:agree with you? Well, first, it's about being professional at
Debra Lockwood:all times. Yeah. And I, if I know that it's a controversial
Debra Lockwood:subject, I do a homework, I do homework, I come in with my
Debra Lockwood:facts, and what I view something being and if I'm outnumbered, I
Debra Lockwood:am out number two democratic society, and I then make a
Debra Lockwood:decision whether it is still in my in the in the organization's
Debra Lockwood:best interest to stay aligned, or if they're going in a
Debra Lockwood:different way, and I don't agree with it, then it's best for me
Debra Lockwood:to move on and let them do their thing. And so I've been in both
Debra Lockwood:situations, you know, in a hospital and one case where I
Debra Lockwood:did not understand why they were doing what they were doing, in
Debra Lockwood:terms of alliances, and, you know, they went on did their
Debra Lockwood:thing, and they're doing great, but I was uncomfortable. So it's
Debra Lockwood:about it's a, it's an evaluation both ways, they're evaluating
Debra Lockwood:you, but you're also evaluating them, if you can rest, when
Debra Lockwood:you're finished the day, and just go home and say it was a
Debra Lockwood:nice day, or it was a difficult day, but we all are on the same
Debra Lockwood:page that works. But if on the other hand, you go home, you
Debra Lockwood:don't feel well about the whole deal, and you continue to feel
Debra Lockwood:that way, then it's time to make make a change and allow someone
Debra Lockwood:else an opportunity. Because as a nonprofit, there are lots of
Debra Lockwood:people that are looking for those types of opportunities. So
Debra Lockwood:I think it's also you know, appropriate to let other people
Debra Lockwood:have that opportunity when you've already done some and
Debra Lockwood:decided it's not for you, right, and then let go of the need to
Debra Lockwood:have a way or prove yourself and in what if it falls back on you
Debra Lockwood:though? What if, because that's ultimately the decision if you
Debra Lockwood:let them do something, and then the repercussions fall back on
Debra Lockwood:you. The only decision that I thought I really needed to walk
Debra Lockwood:away from was really a strategic decision, which was where was
Debra Lockwood:the organisation going. And it was a very volatile environment
Debra Lockwood:all around. And I just didn't, I didn't appreciate the direction
Debra Lockwood:it was going. It was relative to mergers and other things. So I
Debra Lockwood:been through two of those. At this point, one I was
Debra Lockwood:appreciative of, and the other one I was less. But the bottom
Debra Lockwood:line was learning that I'm not helpful if I'm not enthusiastic,
Debra Lockwood:right. I'm not helpful. If I'm just sitting there trying to
Debra Lockwood:question why are we doing this? If in fact, everybody has
Debra Lockwood:decided something different,
Melinda Lee:right?
Debra Lockwood:I'm the oddball. It's still I believe in a
Debra Lockwood:democratic society. And I do believe organisations go in
Debra Lockwood:different places and have different cultures, depending on
Debra Lockwood:who leaders are. And if it's not my thing, it's not. It's okay.
Melinda Lee:Have you had How do you communicate some of these
Melinda Lee:difficult communication expressions? Uh huh. But well,
Debra Lockwood:I think I think you don't necessarily you
Debra Lockwood:express yourself that this is not something that you think is
Debra Lockwood:a great idea without belittling anybody else's thought process.
Debra Lockwood:And then you know, at the appropriate time, you don't make
Debra Lockwood:a deal of it. You don't do it that night and say, I'm off the
Debra Lockwood:board, I'm out. I don't want to be here anymore. That's never
Debra Lockwood:happened to me. I've never done that. You wait until the
Debra Lockwood:appropriate time decide I'm not going to renew my I'm not going
Debra Lockwood:to go to the next step level. And that's how I do it. Because
Debra Lockwood:it keeps everybody in tact and you're still working and
Debra Lockwood:everybody's doing things but you know, I I look for things that
Debra Lockwood:are fulfilling to me as well. And building my energy and not
Debra Lockwood:taking my energy.
Melinda Lee:Right. And I think that's our decision. Yeah, yeah,
Melinda Lee:yeah, going in and like you said, what fulfils me if it
Melinda Lee:doesn't feel good and what I'm what I'm in alignment with and
Melinda Lee:holding that to be true and saying that you might be the
Melinda Lee:oddball, but at least you're saying it, because you know
Melinda Lee:that, hey, there's something that didn't sit well with you.
Melinda Lee:And so you're saying it and saying in the appropriate time
Melinda Lee:doing the research and saying not belittling people caring
Melinda Lee:Yeah. And, and then so once you were on the board, and then what
Melinda Lee:happened after you you found your way in the board and with
Melinda Lee:the board
Debra Lockwood:in a board or just in
Melinda Lee:the last one that you're talking about?
Debra Lockwood:Where where there was dissension?
Melinda Lee:Yeah, yeah,
Debra Lockwood:there was actually leadership change with
Debra Lockwood:management, too. So there were a lots of changes going on at the
Debra Lockwood:time. So it was just, it was all came unglued a little bit. But
Debra Lockwood:it all got back together. So it was good. It's all but you know,
Debra Lockwood:we're still all still, you know, community that I'm in favour of
Debra Lockwood:and hospital I'm in favour of and people i i appreciate, and,
Debra Lockwood:but I'm not having to stress about it.
Melinda Lee:Right,
Debra Lockwood:made that decision.
Melinda Lee:And you saw you do a lot, you're in the nonprofit
Melinda Lee:industry, what made you decide to do that,
Debra Lockwood:you know, I, I was spending a lot of time on
Debra Lockwood:boards, all sorts of boards, and really felt it was great for me,
Debra Lockwood:I enjoyed it. But I also had a practice that I was trying to
Debra Lockwood:maintain. And I decided that I was going to sell my practice
Debra Lockwood:and to one of my partners and go into industry, but chose
Debra Lockwood:nonprofits, because I felt that I was going to marry both right
Debra Lockwood:building, I don't have to build a practice anymore. But I can
Debra Lockwood:give back and be part of a mission and go forward and
Debra Lockwood:whatever. And so I did that. And that has been the right decision
Debra Lockwood:for me all along. I'm certainly still I, I was I was CFO at
Debra Lockwood:provident for a number of years, 20 years or so. And still did a
Debra Lockwood:lot of accounting, but it was more strategic in the last 15
Debra Lockwood:years or so. Then detail. But everything I learned at all the
Debra Lockwood:elements before then contributed to my being able to be in the
Debra Lockwood:role that I was at provident.
Melinda Lee:Mm, got it. So you're able to take it with you.
Melinda Lee:Yeah, good choice for you.
Debra Lockwood:Yes. And all those relationship building. So
Debra Lockwood:in Providence case where we may be dealing with university x,
Debra Lockwood:and then another university y, and there's a project for
Debra Lockwood:classroom space, and one and there's housing on another, our
Debra Lockwood:we're building a hotel for a convention centre, you got to
Debra Lockwood:build relationships with people you don't know, some of whom are
Debra Lockwood:questioning, why are you here? Because none of whom are saying,
Debra Lockwood:oh, gosh, you're a wonder for us because we need you. And we have
Debra Lockwood:to learn how to explain ourselves, in a humble way to
Debra Lockwood:make sure that everybody understands that we're here to
Debra Lockwood:serve them, and, and provide whatever we need to provide at
Debra Lockwood:the time. And that is, so learning those smaller tasks in
Debra Lockwood:smaller boards taught taught me how to work in a team that is
Debra Lockwood:made up of attorneys and developers and universities and,
Debra Lockwood:you know, government entities and so forth at the table, same
Debra Lockwood:table, all with different perspectives, all with different
Debra Lockwood:objectives. But trying to remember why are we here, if
Debra Lockwood:it's the university, we're here for the students, whatever you
Debra Lockwood:do, you're here for the students, I don't know what
Debra Lockwood:you're dealing with on your desk, but you're here for the
Debra Lockwood:students. And if we know that this housing, that safe and
Debra Lockwood:sound and comfortable is a better learning environment than
Debra Lockwood:you are doing your job as an administrator to make that
Debra Lockwood:happen. Using all those tools,
Melinda Lee:but what happens in larger stage? Yeah, yeah, I
Melinda Lee:mean, that's so important, reminding people of the reason
Melinda Lee:why we're here because so often, we can just be on the position,
Melinda Lee:I want it this way, or I want it this way, and just keep talking
Melinda Lee:about that. And then, and then sometimes we might forget, what
Melinda Lee:is the real reason that we're here and try to find that
Melinda Lee:commonality.
Debra Lockwood:And not make it personal,
Melinda Lee:not make it personal
Debra Lockwood:when we realise that you're here as a servant to
Debra Lockwood:help a mission, get accomplished. It is a public,
Debra Lockwood:you're serving the public. And when you're serving the public,
Debra Lockwood:you don't necessarily know Joe Smith or whomever, you just know
Debra Lockwood:that in general, you're going to move the needle a little bit.
Debra Lockwood:That's what your goal is. Just keep moving the needle over
Debra Lockwood:time, it becomes a big needle that gets moved, but just
Debra Lockwood:knowing that and how we do it when you're discussing tactics.
Debra Lockwood:That's just really not important. At the end of the
Debra Lockwood:day. If you have different people with attitudes, I mean,
Debra Lockwood:take Technology, you know, people that do not want
Debra Lockwood:technology Absolutely. Do not want it. Right. But others see
Debra Lockwood:technologies as a solution. right things done faster, right?
Debra Lockwood:It can still get done. It's just a matter of how quickly how
Debra Lockwood:quickly and, and how we can work together to do this. Yes.
Melinda Lee:Whether you use technology or not, and keep our
Melinda Lee:eye on the prize to keep your eye on why we're here. Yeah, I
Melinda Lee:mean, that very clear. And being that underpin to move us through
Melinda Lee:it was was specially when there's challenges because we
Melinda Lee:know we're always gonna face those challenges, and hurdles
Melinda Lee:and obstacles. How do you do so much? How do you manage your
Melinda Lee:your energy and your your passion? What are your Yeah,
Melinda Lee:what do you do for yourself?
Debra Lockwood:I have this insatiable, insatiable passion
Debra Lockwood:to do things. Honestly, I like to, I like to work. And I mean,
Debra Lockwood:it could be whether I'm, you know, coming up with a new
Debra Lockwood:recipe. And I like to cook and I like to play with young
Debra Lockwood:grandson, I like to hang with my kids. I like to, you know,
Debra Lockwood:dance. I like to be on a board. And you know, I like to be
Debra Lockwood:challenged with very technical financing options and solutions
Debra Lockwood:and coming up with operations. I just, I like projects, and I can
Debra Lockwood:come up with a project all day long. So and that energises me
Debra Lockwood:feel connected. And so why am I almost 70 and not retired?
Debra Lockwood:Because I don't want to stop. So that's kind of where I am.
Melinda Lee:And what are you excited about? The next decade?
Debra Lockwood:You know, I'm excited about trying to smell
Debra Lockwood:the roses.
Melinda Lee:Yeah,
Debra Lockwood:you try and enjoy my faith. I'm trying to
Debra Lockwood:really offer more in my faith and try and get closer to things
Debra Lockwood:that are important to me and people that are important to me
Debra Lockwood:and seeing a softer side and I you know, just had my 50th class
Debra Lockwood:reunion this goodness, every show relaxed. I went, it's about
Debra Lockwood:time. You know, but that that's what I'm just trying to smell
Debra Lockwood:the roses. Enjoy that. Enjoy my new grandson. And hopefully,
Debra Lockwood:Sarah will have a grandchild for us soon. Oh, I hope so. I hope
Debra Lockwood:so. How was your dream really important? 2022 was a big year
Debra Lockwood:for us. We have a son and a daughter both got married? Yes,
Debra Lockwood:I've had a baby. So we've had a big 22. So
Melinda Lee:how to smell the roses now. Oh, those babies will
Melinda Lee:stop us. Stop Us and force us to smell the roses. And appreciate
Melinda Lee:all those little things. Right when there's, they're curious.
Melinda Lee:And it's so fun to see the world from through their eyes. Yes.
Melinda Lee:And so it's a joy. That's awesome. So what? I had a
Melinda Lee:question, what, What advice would you give to these heart
Melinda Lee:centred our audience out there? Mainly heart centred leaders
Melinda Lee:there, they're doing the best they can they want to do the
Melinda Lee:right things. And they may have some doubt of what they're doing
Melinda Lee:and do it Do I belong here? Does what I do matter. And they may
Melinda Lee:not speak up as much. And so they're here to gather all the
Melinda Lee:tools, the techniques, what are some things a piece of advice
Melinda Lee:that you would give to these leaders to unleash that voice?
Melinda Lee:And let
Debra Lockwood:you know, I think I think number one, they
Debra Lockwood:need to find something that's going to make them happy in
Debra Lockwood:terms of mission, a connection to the mission, or a connection
Debra Lockwood:to the people who have a connection to the mission, which
Debra Lockwood:if you don't have a connection to the mission, but you have a
Debra Lockwood:connection to the people. And it's just another social
Debra Lockwood:opportunity that you can do something together and do
Debra Lockwood:something good, like Habitat for Humanity, humanity, right?
Debra Lockwood:People aren't necessarily on board, but they like doing that
Debra Lockwood:they need to build a house. But they still get involved. But
Debra Lockwood:it's about finding something that is a talent you don't mind.
Debra Lockwood:So if you I'm not very good with a hammer. So that's not my
Debra Lockwood:thing. But but you know, but I do I have gone out there to
Debra Lockwood:bring water but I don't do that. But finding something that you
Debra Lockwood:can connect to. And if you don't connect it, there are so many
Debra Lockwood:nonprofits out there. Just find think about something that you
Debra Lockwood:enjoy doing and find a nonprofit that fits it right and see if
Debra Lockwood:there's that culture there the leadership that's there and I
Debra Lockwood:mean, the management team, if you relate to them and feel
Debra Lockwood:comfortable then you are good to go. I have people that I know
Debra Lockwood:recently who started they were parents who liked a certain kind
Debra Lockwood:of international school and things went wrong with the
Debra Lockwood:school that was there before and the parents decided we're gonna
Debra Lockwood:do this ourselves. And they did it it's an fabulous school now
Debra Lockwood:so it's it's just about finding the right thing to do that that
Debra Lockwood:you relate to.
Melinda Lee:Yeah, when you do for them like so they're not
Melinda Lee:they don't have the right thing they don't know what do you
Melinda Lee:think that will do for them when they do find it? What is it
Debra Lockwood:I believe that you will find a burning in your
Debra Lockwood:soul that you didn't know you were trying to find. Yeah. And
Debra Lockwood:Heart Association for me was that, honestly, from a from a,
Debra Lockwood:from a civic perspective, it was the best civic thing I was
Debra Lockwood:involved in. And let it's still going. It was started in 96. And
Debra Lockwood:it's still going today. And for me, provendent helped me there
Debra Lockwood:too, because I was able to feed the beast of my, my profession
Debra Lockwood:and be challenged. You know, that way I be in Louisiana and
Debra Lockwood:speaking to, you know, bankers in New York, or attorneys in San
Debra Lockwood:Francisco, or wherever, and I'm still here. And but so I felt
Debra Lockwood:very challenged that way. And I enjoyed it. And at the same time
Debra Lockwood:making certain I mean, our motto is building communities. And
Debra Lockwood:community is a very generic term, a community can be defined
Debra Lockwood:as your classroom, it can be defined as a whole school, a
Debra Lockwood:whole community, a state, all the universities, XYZ, it can be
Debra Lockwood:defined a million ways. And that's what it is you find the
Debra Lockwood:community that you want to make a difference in and see how you
Debra Lockwood:can do it. And don't necessarily think that the first bite at the
Debra Lockwood:apple is going to work. You just finding them, you know, a lot of
Debra Lockwood:papers, a lot of there usually a lot of ads that talk about
Debra Lockwood:nonprofits that have things going for the next month, and
Debra Lockwood:you can just drop in and see what you thought. And try that
Debra Lockwood:interesting.
Melinda Lee:And then when you have that fire, the difference
Melinda Lee:between having the fire and not, when you find out then one
Melinda Lee:thing, right and you have that fire, and you and you realise
Melinda Lee:just how much you can push through. Because it's not going
Melinda Lee:to work, although it's not going to work right away, but you
Melinda Lee:realise and you see how much we could push through with that
Melinda Lee:fire. You then get this look back and say, Wow, I did that.
Melinda Lee:That was me. And I really feel that.
Debra Lockwood:And so when you do it in a nonprofit world,
Debra Lockwood:yeah, yeah. Hence to make you feel more confident, because you
Debra Lockwood:don't necessarily when you're younger, push to be a leader,
Debra Lockwood:when you're 25, maybe not even when you're 30. And then at 40,
Debra Lockwood:you start realising Wow, to do something. But when you've got
Debra Lockwood:the experience in a non threatening way to take charge
Debra Lockwood:of something, then you realise, oh, I can do that in a work
Debra Lockwood:environment. It transfers, it's just skill set that can transfer
Debra Lockwood:and can do it in a way that does not make you feel that you're
Debra Lockwood:putting yourself at risk, financially or otherwise.
Melinda Lee:Right. Awesome. And one last question. This is what
Melinda Lee:I remember, I was gonna ask you, how has your faith supported you
Melinda Lee:throughout this journey?
Debra Lockwood:You know, the one thing about faith is
Debra Lockwood:trusting God, and to let it go. If something is we talked about
Debra Lockwood:difficult situation, and if that is not working for you, you have
Debra Lockwood:to know that it's bigger than you, and you do what you can and
Debra Lockwood:then you have to allow others to do it. i My faith has helped me
Debra Lockwood:to understand I can't control everything. I just can't. I have
Debra Lockwood:to allow it to be handled by others when it needs to be him.
Melinda Lee:Right. Right. Right. So we do the best we can
Melinda Lee:and something that when it doesn't work out what's bigger
Melinda Lee:than us? It makes sense. That makes sense. Because there's a
Melinda Lee:bigger plan, there could be a bigger reason than right. And I
Melinda Lee:don't know that we don't honour. It always is when I look back at
Melinda Lee:some of the things that I've gone through. I was like, oh,
Melinda Lee:that's the reason why that happened. It's like, no, no, no,
Melinda Lee:no, that's not supposed to be this way. But when you know,
Melinda Lee:thinking back, and we can all reflect that all the things that
Melinda Lee:we've gone through, you realise, you hope to realise that that
Melinda Lee:was a reason. You connect the dots. And then they can also
Melinda Lee:help us for going forward, what fires what lights or fire What,
Melinda Lee:what's our path?
Debra Lockwood:And just just I think just understanding that
Debra Lockwood:you're having an experience today, doing XYZ, because that's
Debra Lockwood:what you were expected to have is planned all along. You didn't
Debra Lockwood:even know that. You're having that experience. All those
Debra Lockwood:experiences add up and over time, you end up in a job like I
Debra Lockwood:did at provident and oh my goodness, I had no idea. This
Debra Lockwood:was even here, or this could be we created a company that I
Debra Lockwood:love. And so I think it's trust and it's also about well, I like
Debra Lockwood:a lot of projects and I don't mind doing hard work. I have to
Debra Lockwood:stop myself from doing too much. I really have to stop myself.
Debra Lockwood:I'm not really good at loud metal on its own. But my age has
Debra Lockwood:helped me to understand that I'm I'm taking away opportunities
Debra Lockwood:from others yes by trying to do it myself. So I really in the
Debra Lockwood:last several years 10-15 years just really, I enjoy being that
Debra Lockwood:servant here again, I want to be a teacher. I would love to do
Debra Lockwood:that, you know, to just show what I know not so much sure
Debra Lockwood:what I know, to help explain in a non threatening way if I'm not
Debra Lockwood:their boss anymore, it's easier. You know some, huh?
Melinda Lee:Isn't that interesting when you're not the
Melinda Lee:boss? It's a little different. But well, going back to what
Melinda Lee:you're saying saying noticing Sarah, you're amazing powerhouse
Melinda Lee:daughter was also on our podcast and we dig deep into that which
Melinda Lee:was really cool. She She really has honed in when to say yes
Melinda Lee:when to say no listening to our bodies. And because that is a
Melinda Lee:sign of leadership when we can do that with, with certainty,
Melinda Lee:saying no, and, and because like you said, when you say no to
Melinda Lee:things, you're actually opening up opportunities for other
Melinda Lee:things that are that are more in alignment right now with what
Melinda Lee:you need. And so check out that the amazing podcast with Sarah.
Melinda Lee:We're gonna dig into that. And, and so I think that's it. How
Melinda Lee:old is your grand daughter or son?
Debra Lockwood:It's a grand son, and he's six months old.
Debra Lockwood:And we are taking care of him four days a week. Right.
Melinda Lee:Wonderful. Wonderful. What a blessing.
Melinda Lee:Congratulation.
Debra Lockwood:Thank you. We're very happy. Very blessed. Yeah.
Melinda Lee:I think that's any last words.
Debra Lockwood:You know, I would just as I was You were
Debra Lockwood:saying something, just now I thought there were a couple of
Debra Lockwood:everyday things that I think helped me keep myself in line
Debra Lockwood:when I tried to overdo. One of them is when you're on an
Debra Lockwood:aeroplane, you're supposed to put the oxygen on yourself
Debra Lockwood:before you put it on your child, right? So you have to take care
Debra Lockwood:of yourself, you have to learn how to take care of yourself.
Debra Lockwood:And the other is, you know, I I can remember just working myself
Debra Lockwood:to death. And I had two small children. I said, I don't want
Debra Lockwood:this job anymore. I literally walked away. I don't want this
Debra Lockwood:job because I thought I was only going to work an eight to 10
Debra Lockwood:hour day, not a 15 hour day. And I just walked out one day of the
Debra Lockwood:executive office and I said, You know what, there's nothing on my
Melinda Lee:Right, right.
Debra Lockwood:No, and that was that was 30 years ago. Mm hmm.
Debra Lockwood:headstone is gonna say Deborah Lockwood, X, Y, Z of y, z, z.
Melinda Lee:Am I going to regret this? Am I going to
Melinda Lee:It's just gonna say, wife, Bill, mother, Sarah and Adam, why am I
Melinda Lee:regret this decision when I die? And most of the time that the
Melinda Lee:doing this? And it really stopped me in my tracks.
Melinda Lee:small decisions at work are not right. Or I mean, they're not
Melinda Lee:the lifetime decisions. That that we're going to take to the
Melinda Lee:grave and regret. It's usually more of the time we spent with
Melinda Lee:our family the the meaningful conversation and learning how to
Melinda Lee:say no using our voice to say no to things cultivating a lot of
Melinda Lee:us are not speaking up. So cultivating the times that we
Melinda Lee:need to just say no need to lead with our heart need to lead with
Melinda Lee:compassion for yourself and for others.
Debra Lockwood:Yes,
Melinda Lee:yeah. Voice to do that. Awesome. Thank you so
Melinda Lee:much, Deborah, and putting the oxygen mask on ourselves. That's
Melinda Lee:key, right? And so how do we once we know what we need? How
Melinda Lee:do we communicate that to others?
Debra Lockwood:Right, right. Well, when you're in leadership,
Debra Lockwood:you get to say things like, I want to have HR policies that
Debra Lockwood:have a balance of a family and work period. And I did that
Debra Lockwood:years ago, and I had someone call me just the other day says,
Debra Lockwood:you mentored me, I was the best thing you ever did. And we do it
Debra Lockwood:now. And now we're, you know, one of the best places to be
Debra Lockwood:employed. So
Melinda Lee:thank you so much for your help with helping us
Melinda Lee:today. And also the community to the people around you, and
Melinda Lee:sharing your knowledge with us.
Debra Lockwood:Really appreciate it. Enjoyed it. Thank
