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Welcome back to another episode of the Speak in Flow Podcast, where we explore the art of communication and personal growth. I'm your host, Melinda Lee. In today's episode, we have a remarkable guest who will enlighten us on the intricacies of conflict, leadership, and navigating difficult conversations. Please join me in welcoming Anil Awasti.
Meet Anil Awasti
Our guest today, Anil Awasti, is a Bay Area native with a wealth of experience in HR leadership within nonprofit organizations. Anil's journey into the world of HR and teaching graduate courses at Golden Gate University. His passion for teaching and how it contributes to his own ongoing education. Anil's dedication extends to his consulting and coaching practice, where he specializes in nonprofits. Get a glimpse into Anil's personal life, from his love for pool to his commitment to physical fitness and quality time with his girlfriend.
Conflict Resolution vs. Conflict Management
Anil shares valuable insights on the fundamental difference between conflict resolution and conflict management. Understanding the significance of these concepts in various aspects of life. Real-world examples that illustrate the transformative power of effective conflict management. Strategies and best practices for proactively addressing conflicts and fostering healthier relationships.
Navigating Difficult Conversations
Anil provides expert guidance on how to navigate difficult conversations, especially when dealing with employees. Practical tips for approaching these conversations with empathy, clarity, and assertiveness. The crucial role of trust-building and relationship maintenance during challenging discussions. A self-assessment: Are you an avoider of conflict? Anil offers actionable steps to overcome avoidance and embrace productive conversations.
Becoming a Better Leader
Dive into the world of leadership with Anil as he offers strategies for becoming a more effective and emotionally intelligent leader. Understanding and managing emotions effectively in leadership roles. Anil's wisdom on leading authentically, empathetically, and with resilience. The positive impact these leadership qualities can have on organizations and communities.
Conclusion:
A heartfelt thank you to our guest, Anil Awasti, for sharing his invaluable insights on conflict management, leadership, and navigating challenging conversations.
You can connect with Anil on his website, AwastiConsulting.com, and on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/aawasti.
About Melinda:
Melinda Lee is a Presentation Skills Expert, Speaking Coach and nationally renowned Motivational Speaker. She holds an M.A. in Organizational Psychology, is an Insights Practitioner, and is a Certified Professional in Talent Development as well as Certified in Conflict Resolution. For over a decade, Melinda has researched and studied the state of “flow” and used it as a proven technique to help corporate leaders and business owners amplify their voices, access flow, and present their mission in a more powerful way to achieve results.
She has been the TEDx Berkeley Speaker Coach and worked with hundreds of executives and teams from Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Caltrans, Bay Area Rapid Transit System, and more. Currently, she lives in San Francisco, California, and is breaking the ancestral lineage of silence.
Website: https://speakinflow.com/
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/speakinflow
Instagram: https://instagram.com/speakinflow
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpowerall
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Hi Anil, it's good to have you on the show.
Anil Awasti:. Thank you for having me.
Melinda Lee:Yes, I'm so glad you're here, especially because
Melinda Lee:you help nonprofits and mission driven organisations. And so
Melinda Lee:before we jump into the meat and potatoes about conflict
Melinda Lee:resolution and conflict management, I'm curious, what
Melinda Lee:are you excited about working with these organisations?
Anil Awasti:Yes, thanks for asking. So I started off my
Anil Awasti:career in nonprofits even before I got into HR. After I decided
Anil Awasti:that I want to pursue a career in HR, I kind of fell into a
Anil Awasti:nonprofit that applied to a number of organisations and
Anil Awasti:nonprofits where I just started my HR career. And I really liked
Anil Awasti:the idea of serving the community, and thinking of the
Anil Awasti:community as our as our shareholders and our
Anil Awasti:stakeholders. And that just really resonated with me. And
Anil Awasti:long story short, 10 years later, I've just been working in
Anil Awasti:nonprofits and HR leadership. I teach at a nonprofit and I
Anil Awasti:consulted nonprofits. Although I do consult with some for
Anil Awasti:profits, most of my work is bent around nonprofit, that our
Anil Awasti:mission.
Melinda Lee:Yeah, no, I'm just so glad I love talking to people
Melinda Lee:meeting people that have a connection to their work. And,
Melinda Lee:and just a connection to feel, hey, I'm putting in so many
Melinda Lee:hours of my day, you might as well find something that you
Melinda Lee:feel connected to you, you. And also the people around you.
Melinda Lee:Yeah. So thank you for all your work on that. And the nonprofit
Melinda Lee:space and helping the community really appreciate it. And so
Melinda Lee:what and your specialty, even drilling down further, you have
Melinda Lee:specialty around conflict management. And so I was
Melinda Lee:curious, I heard I have a conflict resolution credential
Melinda Lee:from Golden Gate University. And that's also where you're adjunct
Melinda Lee:professor. And so it's interesting, because I wonder,
Melinda Lee:what's the difference between conflict management and conflict
Melinda Lee:resolution?
Anil Awasti:Yeah, yeah, that's one of the first classes I
Anil Awasti:started teaching university. And I still teach that this semester
Anil Awasti:as well. So the way I see the distinction is that not every
Anil Awasti:conflict is going to be resolved. With a win win
Anil Awasti:resolution. I firmly believe most conflicts, like 80% of
Anil Awasti:conflicts can be resolved with a win win, meaning both parties
Anil Awasti:can actually have everything they want. Maybe not in the
Anil Awasti:manner that they wanted, but they have to collect a genuine
Anil Awasti:emotions, you still have their interest and their goals be met.
Anil Awasti:Conflict Resolution, on the other hand, if I'm sorry,
Anil Awasti:conflict management, on the other hand, I believe is for
Anil Awasti:those like 20% or so conflicts that aren't going to result in a
Anil Awasti:win win. Where you have to agree to disagree, but how you agree
Anil Awasti:to disagree, I think is what matters. It matters in workplace
Anil Awasti:relationships. And I think it matters in close personal
Anil Awasti:relationships. So I think how you manage that disagreement is
Anil Awasti:where conflict management shines. And that's why I use the
Anil Awasti:use the term conflict management in my class more than I use
Anil Awasti:conflict resolution.
Melinda Lee:Oh, that's really interesting. So do the conflict
Melinda Lee:management is that for specifically, once you've
Melinda Lee:identified, we're not going to be able to resolve this. And
Melinda Lee:then this is where the class filled in the gap for the 20%,
Melinda Lee:or you kind of cover the whole gamut
Anil Awasti:will occur the whole time. Okay, mostly, it's
Anil Awasti:more easy for me to illustrate this. And those Yeah, those
Anil Awasti:areas where all of our needs are not going to be met, as opposed
Anil Awasti:to a compromise where we meet halfway, I give up something,
Anil Awasti:you give up something and I get something and you get something,
Anil Awasti:well, we might not be completely satisfied, but we have to move
Anil Awasti:on. Because conflict just isn't over. When you have a
Anil Awasti:resolution. You have to manage the aftermath, the emotions and
Anil Awasti:all, all those things that, you know, come to the forefront, and
Anil Awasti:can put our relationships in danger. If they're right. Right.
Anil Awasti:Right. Right. Because like you said, you we are going to still
Anil Awasti:continue to work with these people. This is conflict
Anil Awasti:management, assuming that we are going to work with these people.
Anil Awasti:And so how do we go through it? Tell me more about what you said
Anil Awasti:about how we're getting to the the end or the the the not
Anil Awasti:there's no resolution, but how in the process of managing the
Anil Awasti:conflict. Tell me more about what that means. Yeah, it's to
Anil Awasti:me what that means is my relationship with you. Yeah,
Anil Awasti:more important to me than when right now? Yeah. Because
Anil Awasti:sometimes you might get a win right now, but you'll do you'll
Anil Awasti:incur a net loss over a period of time because you do more
Anil Awasti:damage to the relationship than is necessary. So I think that's
Anil Awasti:what it means to me. You know, if you back into it compromise,
Anil Awasti:like I said, Well, you might not get everything. But maybe next,
Anil Awasti:I suppose you're in conflict with your spouse or another
Anil Awasti:loved one or close personal relationship. Maybe I got a
Anil Awasti:little bit more out of the deal than you this time. And next
Anil Awasti:time, I'm gonna manage this as maybe I'm gonna give it a bit
Anil Awasti:more. One party isn't always getting the short end of the
Anil Awasti:stick. So that's, that's the my opinion how you these number of
Anil Awasti:acts that you do after conflict, to either destroy the
Anil Awasti:relationship, or strengthen the relationship? Because
Anil Awasti:relationships don't mean we're gonna be in agreement all the
Anil Awasti:time. Right, right. This reminds me of this is this has nothing
Anil Awasti:to do with conflict. But it actually just reminds me of my
Anil Awasti:mom who had cancer. And when something like this happens, and
Anil Awasti:you're about to go into conflict, you can do a couple of
Anil Awasti:things, right. But she had cancer, she did everything that
Anil Awasti:she needed to do to fight this cancer. For her in her
Anil Awasti:perspective, there's a lot of ways to go about it. But she did
Anil Awasti:her, her chemotherapy or radiation, she did the surgery.
Anil Awasti:And there's some people that are going to fight the whole way, be
Anil Awasti:upset the whole way and angry and yell at everybody around
Anil Awasti:her. And there's something for her, she was just the kindest
Anil Awasti:person, she was still just warm and, and so this is what we're
Anil Awasti:talking about the process, right? When you're in a
Anil Awasti:conflict, you can go about it a couple of ways. You can be angry
Anil Awasti:and yell, or you can really try your best to to, to listen to
Anil Awasti:have empathy, you're the outcome, like you said, it was
Anil Awasti:no resolution, because she ended up passing away. But then when
Anil Awasti:we reflect back about the whole process of what she had gone
Anil Awasti:through, it was like, like, how she went about to do it was was
Anil Awasti:what she wanted and what I remember. So like you said,
Anil Awasti:like, if we're in a relationship with somebody, and we're having
Anil Awasti:conflict, and you reflect back, even though there's no
Anil Awasti:resolution, her first date for my mom, and there was no
Anil Awasti:beneficial outcome for her that was not the outcome that she
Anil Awasti:wanted. But I think yeah, but I think I think that her process
Anil Awasti:of how she went about it, that's exactly what she wanted to do.
Anil Awasti:I'm so sorry to hear. Yeah, I just for whatever reason, I'm
Anil Awasti:sorry, you know, thinking about that. But I think that
Anil Awasti:hopefully, that will help people see what, when you reflect that.
Anil Awasti:And this moment, because you could do a lot of damage in
Anil Awasti:those times. Yeah. Right. You know, we can either talk about
Anil Awasti:this now or some other time, but emotions are internal facts.
Anil Awasti:That's how I talk in my in my classes, and people often make
Anil Awasti:these types of assertions. So you shouldn't get mad, you
Anil Awasti:shouldn't feel that way. Well, they are. Right. Well, it just
Anil Awasti:is what it is and to be acknowledged during conflict.
Anil Awasti:Not acted out, but acknowledged. Yes, yeah. Part of it behind and
Anil Awasti:in, which is, you know, very strong stimulus, in emotions are
Anil Awasti:acknowledging them and trying to understand the emotions the
Anil Awasti:others going through will help you get to a better resolution.
Anil Awasti:And oh, right, I think both as well, right, I think both ends,
Anil Awasti:right. As a person, if I'm angry, I have a I can decide
Anil Awasti:whether I'm going to act out on it.
Melinda Lee:Right. The Oh, and also the receiver. Like you
Melinda Lee:said, sometimes people will say you shouldn't feel angry. But if
Melinda Lee:you're the receiver of this anger, like you said,
Melinda Lee:acknowledging that anger, but when both parties can do that,
Melinda Lee:and just acknowledge it. And then decide whether you want to
Melinda Lee:act on it. If you have a lot of anger than that, perhaps like if
Melinda Lee:you're thinking about back about the process, maybe we don't want
Melinda Lee:to act out on it and give yourself some time and space
Anil Awasti:emotions are complicated, I mean, on the
Anil Awasti:surface observable, but actually the emotion the person is
Anil Awasti:feeling there might be men tend to do this a lot. They will
Anil Awasti:mask, you know, fear with anger. Right? Not all men, but it's,
Anil Awasti:you know, overwhelmingly men do this. So understanding what
Anil Awasti:emotion someone is feeling and to navigate those is incredibly
Anil Awasti:important in conflict. I did the whole lecture on that in my
Anil Awasti:classes.
Melinda Lee:Yeah. Can you share one tip or one? How to how to
Melinda Lee:manage it. From your perspective?
Anil Awasti:First, the biggest tip I can share is recognise
Anil Awasti:your own emotions. Are you in fact angry? Or you're afraid?
Anil Awasti:For women? Are you actually thinking it's not a big deal and
Anil Awasti:you're just avoiding? Or is it a really big deal and just masking
Anil Awasti:that anxiety of having to deal with a conflict with just an
Anil Awasti:avoidant behaviour so recognising emotions is a great
Anil Awasti:place to start.
Melinda Lee:Yeah, most of us will avoid it because it's so
Melinda Lee:uncomfortable.
Anil Awasti:Yeah, it is
Melinda Lee:It is uncomfortable, and what is the
Melinda Lee:opportunity when we can? Go? And?
Anil Awasti:Well, I mean, if you're talking about this in the
Anil Awasti:context of managers and their roles and conflict management,
Anil Awasti:right, I'm often times in my career managers come to me. And
Anil Awasti:they're talking about a certain type of conflict that their
Anil Awasti:employees are facing. And, you know, I talk through them, I can
Anil Awasti:give you some coaching. And, you know, I'll ask questions about
Anil Awasti:what the employee has done, because remember, we are talking
Anil Awasti:about adults here. The employee done to resolve this, oh, the
Anil Awasti:employee feels uncomfortable, or they feel uncomfortable coming
Anil Awasti:to you directly. That's it. Okay. And as the manager, how
Anil Awasti:have you addressed that, most of the time they address it by by
Anil Awasti:taking over the responsibility. And that is a disservice, in my
Anil Awasti:opinion to the employee and the organisation. Being
Anil Awasti:uncomfortable is not a good enough reason to avoid
Anil Awasti:something. That's how you learn. That's how you grow. And it's
Anil Awasti:not a manager's job to provide a comfortable environment. A
Anil Awasti:manager's job is to provide a safe environment.
Melinda Lee:Got it, I love that. That's so true.
Anil Awasti:So providing a safe environment means you'd have to
Anil Awasti:encourage appropriate risk taking, right. One of the some
Anil Awasti:of the biggest issues I see with managers, our managers avoid
Anil Awasti:dealing with conflict managers, tend to be conflict avoidant.
Anil Awasti:And one of the biggest complaints about managers is
Anil Awasti:they do not handle conflict, they either open or just go
Anil Awasti:away, or either pretend like it just doesn't exist. So they're
Anil Awasti:avoided. Some other things that they do is they engage or they
Anil Awasti:create a situation are avoidable conflict, actually flourishes.
Anil Awasti:And people engage in conflict, easily avoided by having unclear
Anil Awasti:expectations, unclear job descriptions, or setting up
Anil Awasti:setting up situations where people are competing against
Anil Awasti:each other for no reason. You should be eliminated. Right?
Anil Awasti:Right. positions, incredibly healthy, right? It has to be
Anil Awasti:deliberate. But when from an employee's perspective, they
Anil Awasti:have unclear directions, they feel they're responsible for
Anil Awasti:something or have jurisdiction over something. So to someone
Anil Awasti:else, well, that's going to result in conflict. Coupled with
Anil Awasti:a manager that is avoidant, it's just going to play off for a
Anil Awasti:long period of time until it blows up. Wow. So the last thing
Anil Awasti:managers, because what I illustrated the beginning is
Anil Awasti:they feel the need to to go to the rescue of the person that's
Anil Awasti:complaining. And while mediation is a powerful tool, it shouldn't
Anil Awasti:be the first step. Not every, right for mediation. Managers
Anil Awasti:roles I believe, are to teach to coach to facilitate, but
Anil Awasti:facilitation comes later. That's the mediation piece, right? Uh,
Anil Awasti:taking the time to think through what the per the complainant,
Anil Awasti:that person has come to you with a conflict situation, what, you
Anil Awasti:know, what is your role in this conflict? How have you
Anil Awasti:contributed to it? What are your goals? How would you like to see
Anil Awasti:it resolved? What can you say to this person? How can you
Anil Awasti:approach them, spending the time and thinking through all of
Anil Awasti:these is going to do more service for the employee and the
Anil Awasti:organisation and the managers time in the future? Because they
Anil Awasti:won't have to jump in every conflict. Right now.
Melinda Lee:How do they know how does the manager know
Melinda Lee:whether they're avoiding or not,
Anil Awasti:How does a manager know if they're avoiding or not?
Anil Awasti:Yeah.
Melinda Lee:Clear something?
Anil Awasti:Well, I think, you know, I think working with a
Anil Awasti:coach is good. asking, you know, asking your staff for feedback,
Anil Awasti:how well do you write conflict?
Melinda Lee:That's a good one. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah.
Anil Awasti:There's nothing remarkable about it asking for
Anil Awasti:feedback. But it's also uncomfortable. And, and yeah, if
Anil Awasti:you're coming from a collectivistic culture or saving
Anil Awasti:face, right, is the norm, you're probably not going to want to
Anil Awasti:ask those types of questions. And if you're an employee coming
Anil Awasti:from collectivistic, cultures are probably not going to want
Anil Awasti:to, to give direct feedback to your superior either. So you
Anil Awasti:have to ask in different ways.
Melinda Lee:Yeah, I mean, anonymous survey would be
Melinda Lee:helpful to get some feedback. And because, yeah, I mean,
Melinda Lee:especially if you want, right, right, if you want to understand
Melinda Lee:where there's some blind spots or as a manager, right, what can
Melinda Lee:I do? You can put it more holistically. Yeah, what what
Melinda Lee:can I do to be a better manager?
Anil Awasti:And then I think a good place to start for managers
Anil Awasti:is learning assertiveness skills. Yeah. So if somebody
Anil Awasti:comes to you with a conflict situation, quickly assess it and
Anil Awasti:like, you know, I'm happy to help but I really want you to
Anil Awasti:deal with I really wish you guys would deal with it first. And if
Anil Awasti:you can't get me Do you see the responsibility back on the
Anil Awasti:employee? Make yourself available if they need help,
Anil Awasti:they want to talk. But don't just jump in there, like I might
Anil Awasti:go into the rescue one of your employees, they're
Anil Awasti:uncomfortable, they'll be fine.
Melinda Lee:What are you finding is the one of the
Melinda Lee:primary challenges you mentioned, they avoid it. And
Melinda Lee:they're avoiding because they're not giving. They don't know how
Melinda Lee:to give direct feedback, or?
Anil Awasti:Well, there are a number of reasons. Not all of
Anil Awasti:them apply to everybody. Some people are naturally conflict
Anil Awasti:avoidant strategy that they've practised ever since childhood,
Anil Awasti:so they have a lot of competency with that strategy. And our job
Anil Awasti:is to kind of get them to develop some level of competency
Anil Awasti:with other areas like collaboration, accommodation,
Anil Awasti:compromise, even competition. That others, it's just
Anil Awasti:uncomfortable. Another reason it's uncomfortable, so they're
Anil Awasti:rather not got it.
Melinda Lee:And that's probably where we want to lean into when
Melinda Lee:we're finding discomfort with something that, like you said,
Melinda Lee:it's not about avoiding the discomfort, but it's about hate.
Melinda Lee:Because you you and your team, we're all feeling discomfort.
Melinda Lee:But as a manager, you want to be the safety, but like provide
Melinda Lee:safety to go and lean into the discomfort because that's where
Melinda Lee:you're gonna grow. Yeah, those are the areas Yeah, yeah,
Anil Awasti:I just ran a couple of workshops over the last four
Anil Awasti:weeks or so for a couple of my clients conflict management. And
Anil Awasti:I was asked, I want to do my trainings on performance
Anil Awasti:management, and interview skills, things like that. I
Anil Awasti:always ask if the manager has ever received such a training
Anil Awasti:before, and almost always, no hands go up. And it's so
Anil Awasti:interesting, even in 2023, we put people in leadership roles,
Anil Awasti:and not give them the tool because they're really good at
Anil Awasti:the job, they're really good at attacking a piece of their jobs.
Anil Awasti:But we forget that the leadership skills need to be
Anil Awasti:developed. And it's okay to put a high performer in those roles,
Anil Awasti:but you have to give them the tools as well. And sometimes the
Anil Awasti:field that managers believe that now they're their manager, they
Anil Awasti:have those skills, right? And they end up going to mediation,
Anil Awasti:I think is going to do more harm than good. Because having, you
Anil Awasti:know spent time practising or learning some theory or just,
Anil Awasti:you know, the only thing to do is go on without preparation,
Anil Awasti:remediation meeting, you know, I spent an hour or two hours
Anil Awasti:prepping for the mediation meeting. So it takes time,
Anil Awasti:right, you can do back to back, you can have back to back
Anil Awasti:meeting scheduled and you just walk into mediation without any
Anil Awasti:prep, that's gonna do a lot of harm. Right, right.
Melinda Lee:I agree. And mediation is almost like the
Melinda Lee:last step. If you can have these skill sets in the skill
Melinda Lee:beforehand, before mediation, then you're actually going to
Melinda Lee:avoid that mediation altogether. The goal?
Anil Awasti:Absolutely. You want a mediation? Right, right.
Anil Awasti:Sometimes you need external help, and that's okay. Right.
Anil Awasti:Right. And like you said, I mean, because I think the
Anil Awasti:managers, yeah, they they know all of the technical aspects of
Anil Awasti:it. But this is all I don't think there's an end. Yes, you
Anil Awasti:may know, some conflict management skills.
Melinda Lee:But why why Kap it? Like, there's always more to
Melinda Lee:learn as when I'm thinking, they might think I have some basic, I
Melinda Lee:got this, I'm good. And then well, you know, what they don't
Melinda Lee:realise is that I think that there's more to learn. There's
Melinda Lee:always Yeah, skills that we can evolve and get better at, like
Melinda Lee:these types of things.
Anil Awasti:Yeah, people are listening. And they can think
Anil Awasti:back to a conflict, a mediated leader, right? Even if they
Anil Awasti:weren't a leader, and then mediate of the conflict. Maybe
Anil Awasti:it went, Well, maybe it didn't go well. But in their minds, if
Anil Awasti:you guys want to do like a post mortem and see what actually,
Anil Awasti:you did that worked well, and things you did that did not
Anil Awasti:work. Well. What what do you do differently? Yeah, I think
Anil Awasti:recent conflict, that's a good tool as well. So at least you're
Anil Awasti:continually improving, you know, by having a meeting with
Anil Awasti:yourself, right?
Melinda Lee:Can you share a example of a client that you
Melinda Lee:work with like it was a before the the client was working with
Melinda Lee:you before having these skills and then what happened after you
Melinda Lee:started working, or finish working with the client?
Anil Awasti:I'm sure. There's a client of mine in San Francisco
Anil Awasti:they're having. They're having challenges with an employee. And
Anil Awasti:they're not sure how to approach that employee because the
Anil Awasti:employee is confrontational. And her home country had worked in
Anil Awasti:HR, so they're a bit afraid of her as well. And they, they
Anil Awasti:don't know what they can say or they did not know what they can
Anil Awasti:say. You know how to deal with this. But the colleagues were
Anil Awasti:complaining as well of this this employee. Okay, about 70 80% of
Anil Awasti:the colleagues complained. There's a complaint in that
Anil Awasti:department about that one person, the one person just
Anil Awasti:doesn't see itin meetings, even all the way up to the executive
Anil Awasti:director, she commit to making changes. But then she'd refute
Anil Awasti:everything that's being said. One on the who's saying what
Anil Awasti:things like that. So, it was decided that coaching is not
Anil Awasti:going anywhere, we need to put this employee, we need to up the
Anil Awasti:ante put her on a performance improvement plan. So I worked
Anil Awasti:with the direct supervisor and the supervisors manager as well.
Anil Awasti:So the head of the department on how to conduct this meeting, and
Anil Awasti:they had a lot of anxiety around. Key sessions all over
Anil Awasti:zoom in the executive director and the deputy director were
Anil Awasti:there as well. And so through the through these two sessions,
Anil Awasti:it wasn't anything remarkable to be very honest, that I did or I
Anil Awasti:taught them, it was just by facilitating a dialogue, we were
Anil Awasti:able to take the time to plan for that meeting. I think that
Anil Awasti:was my only contribution. Quite frankly, I didn't have the
Anil Awasti:answers like things like, what do you what are your goals from
Anil Awasti:this meeting? That's manager asking the supervisor, what do
Anil Awasti:you think? Are the employees goals? What are your interests?
Anil Awasti:What do you think are her interest? I know your position,
Anil Awasti:what are her positions? you know, answering assertively
Anil Awasti:politely and assertively, especially if the employee keeps
Anil Awasti:probing, you know, asking questions that they can't
Anil Awasti:answer. The meeting went well, the bottles meetings went well,
Anil Awasti:and then the subsequent meeting with the employee went while I
Anil Awasti:was not there, that was my job. But all that to say, all we did
Anil Awasti:is we spent some time preparing, The reason that thing is so
Anil Awasti:powerful is because it you can calculate, you know how to
Anil Awasti:negotiate what goals are your non negotiables? And which goals
Anil Awasti:can you negotiate upon still be very happy. If you don't go
Anil Awasti:through those calculations, right, you might negotiate away
Anil Awasti:the wrong things. Or you might not know you could have given
Melinda Lee:Correct. That's huge. That's huge. Right? Yeah.
Melinda Lee:something up and preserve the relationship, and there wouldn't
Melinda Lee:And knowing the things that we want to negotiate that are
Melinda Lee:negotiable, non negotiables. And that way, you're not in the
Melinda Lee:be a difference to you. Correct?
Melinda Lee:conversation and just standing, you know, with blank stare?
Melinda Lee:Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Anil, and so what, when, you
Melinda Lee:know, we have people out there, they're listening, they might be
Melinda Lee:thinking about their employee having these difficult
Melinda Lee:conversations with employees are crucial, and what, how can they
Melinda Lee:reach you? Or how can they Yeah, what can you do to help them?
Anil Awasti:Thank you, so they can visit my website, it's been
Anil Awasti:an incredibly I believe, you'll have some information as well.
Anil Awasti:But velocity consulting, is my last name, AWASTI
Anil Awasti:consulting.com. You can shoot me a message there. And also shoot
Anil Awasti:me a message as Anil Awasthi consulting.com, feel free to
Anil Awasti:connect with me on LinkedIn, we're putting out some good
Anil Awasti:content, hopefully, on a weekly basis around HR, and you know,
Anil Awasti:the evolution of HR AI, all of these things a lot to do with
Anil Awasti:culture. So I'm happy to connect to a lot of, you know, not just
Anil Awasti:HR, but I do some operational consulting as well. Awesome. I
Anil Awasti:love working with people. So, you know, I work with not just
Anil Awasti:leaders, but emerging leaders and boards of directors as well.
Anil Awasti:So if you if you'd like to just have an exploratory call, I'm
Anil Awasti:happy to do that as well.
Melinda Lee:you. Anil, and what are your last, like, Key Tips
Melinda Lee:for leaders that are out there that are struggling with having
Melinda Lee:these types of conversations effectively?
Anil Awasti:Yep, well, the one tip I'll share is that be kind
Anil Awasti:to yourself. It's conflict management, effective conflict
Anil Awasti:management is not for the faint of heart, is it is challenging.
Anil Awasti:It takes a lot of cognitive energy, takes time to prepare,
Anil Awasti:takes time to go through the meetings, you have to sit in
Anil Awasti:difficult, uncomfortable situations, and they will always
Anil Awasti:be uncomfortable. Doesn't matter how long you've been, there will
Anil Awasti:always be uncomfortable. And then you also have to spend time
Anil Awasti:and energy and cognitive capacity to manage the
Anil Awasti:aftermath. So be kind to yourself, know that you have a
Anil Awasti:lot of expertise in whatever your default style is, it might
Anil Awasti:be avoided, it might be competition, practice that your
Anil Awasti:whole life. And others so I really apologise when you make a
Anil Awasti:mistake. I know right? Very long way in my classes. Opponents
Anil Awasti:have an apology, but it's we're running out of time here but
Anil Awasti:apologise even need BNF speed your ego at the door, you'll be fine.
Melinda Lee:It's huge. It's huge. Awesome. Thank you. And
Melinda Lee:Neil, thank you so much for your time, your expertise, really
Melinda Lee:appreciate it. Reach out to Emil all of his information will be
Melinda Lee:in the comments and the notes.
Anil Awasti:Take care. Thank you.
