Unlocking Leadership Potential: Conscious Communication with Jason Jones

Hello dear listeners, welcome to the speak

in flow podcast, where we share unique experiences to help you

unleash your leadership voice. Today, we have an amazing,

amazing leader, Conscious Communication Coach, Jason

Jones. Hi, Jason.

Hi, Melinda, so great to be on your podcast. I

mean, I've been looking forward to this. Me too. It's so great

to connect. Again, I've known you for quite a while you've

been a conscious communication coach for over a decade now. So

before we even dive into the meat of it, which is going to be

great all about asking the right questions to influence people.

I'm curious, how did conscious communications coach get born?

It's an amazing title. And that become a thing? Yeah, it will.

It was definitely, it was definitely an evolution because

I was my former title. I was like business coaching, and

doing business coaching. And what I discovered is that I was

doing lots and lots of strategy with people do this strategy,

try this technique, try this, this has worked, do all that.

And I found it to be I would say, oh, effective, like maybe

half of the time. And I started to look and recognise that there

were other, there were barriers for people that weren't the

strategy, it wasn't the thing to do, the barriers were more

within them. And the conscious aspect comes out. Because the

way that I focus on communication coaching is

developing someone's ability to be able to see someone else for

what is happening for someone else. Mm, which is distinct from

what is the normative behaviour, which is I project onto you what

and who I think you are, Melinda, and I make all kinds of

assumptions about how you look about how you dress about what

you say, and I treat all those assumptions, like it's the

truth. And then I talked to you that way, right. And that

produces a certain kind of experience. And most of the

time, it can be an OK, experience, it could also be a

not so good experience, because I'm not actually seeing you,

Melinda, I'm seeing all the assumptions that I have about

you. And when you're communicating in a conscious

way. That is you're putting effort into understanding who

you're speaking to, and understand where they're coming

from, in an effort to look at their reality. So you understand

the context in the world they're living in. Yeah, informs what to

say to them and informs where the conversation goes, what

there is to share. It's interesting, because like, I

mean, cuz I think all the people here the audience members were

exceptional, were great leaders. So we can go in with these

assumptions. I think, Oh, I know this person. I believe I know

this person. And you're saying that I see even if I believe

that think that they're I'm probably still going in with

assumptions. Well, we always do and and so when I'm not saying

I'm not saying for example, like that I don't operate under any

assumptions at all. I have transcended that note. That mean

there is we're human beings, right. And this is how we sort

and compartmentalise It's how our brain works. It's how we, we

have to put things in categories so that we understand it.

However, what happens, Melinda is when you put the effort into

witnessing and trying to see the person as they're showing up

without judgement, without assessment, without evaluation,

without wondering, what are they above me below me? Where are

they? Where do I fit with them? Without all setting all of that

aside? And just looking for and listening for who is it? I mean,

who can trip us up? But like, like, who? Yeah, who is it? That

is like really showing up? You're the person. And when you

put the effort into your communication that way and into

witnessing and seeing people that way? They experience you

differently, because what happens is they become seen.

I love that because let's face it, I mean, every day

I change every day, that person probably is changing. We every

day is different. Every moment is different. So why not look at

that moment as a new moment?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You got it right on. Yeah. If we can

if we can run with this a little bit. Yeah. I'm thinking of like,

imagine this as, like, let's say, intimate partner, like your

romantic partner, spouse, partner, like the person you

live with. You're with them every day, right? Right. Now

what typically happens in a relationship like you meet

somebody new, you're really attracted to them. They're

amazing, right? And in those moments, yes, you're probably

projecting what you want them to be on them. But you're also

really paying attention. You're paying attention to like, Oh,

that's cool, or, well, I don't know, when you're avoiding. You

don't want that kind of guy, or that or I want to watch out for

this red flag, and you're really like really looking and really

listening. And then after a while, you get comfortable with

each other. And then you say, Okay, well, let's, you know,

let's be committed. And then yeah, now you're committed. So

it's like, oh, you relax a little bit. And then you've been

together for a few years. And then suddenly, they do

something. And you're like, Where'd this come from? You

don't like jam? You. But I didn't. I didn't think you'd

like trucks. Right? Because you've we stopped seeing the

other person as they have grown. And we're seeing the person that

we got the assessment of in those first times together,

totally. But all that we actually listen for, is what we

know. So then when something when you feel blindsided, when

they're different when they change, same thing in work.

Like, why is Tom why Tom act that way, Tom say that, like,

what's what, Tom, he's not being the way we expect him to be kind

of thing. And then we get what we get agitated, like, well,

what's going on, or there's a problem, there's a problem with

Tom or we got to get in the way, but it gets into we got to do

something, right. And the only thing there is to do Melinda is

to slow down and go see what's going on with Tom today. Who is

Tom today?

a good reminder. Today, I just was agitated

today. And you know, slow down, it's a great reminder to slow

down and see what's happening with Tom asked the right

questions.

Yeah, that world and get present to the world.

So what if I'm a team leader, and I have an idea,

and I want my team to come on board, and I present my ideas.

And then there's resistance like, we've been in that

situation before where they're like, hmmm, I'm not sure. I

don't know if I want to do this, like,

sure. Well, the first thing that I would invite

that team leader to do is do not go in cold. And if they're if

you're going to be asking them to change things about what

they're going to be doing, that's going to be disruptive to

them. Because we know that any kind of change is disruptive to

people, there is no good change. Even if you throw a surprise

birthday for somebody majorly stressful. Like it is like first

terror and then happiness that it's all their friends that said

surprise, right? Because like people hate surprises, like hate

surprise, as a norm. They do they like things predictable.

And for the most part, you know, kind of generalised? So you're

you're going to set yourself up for resistance, if you go in

with you like a cold presentation, right? Right, and

say, Okay, this is what we're going to do. And let me tell you

why it's going to be great, right? Looking at their faces,

and you're going like, why aren't they smiling? They This

is really good. Let me know, let me keep talking and tell you why

this is good. And I'm really excited. It's like, Well, I'm

glad you're bought in. But I'm not feeling it over here. And

what's missing Melinda is that you're coming in with a great

idea to change the stuff that I do. But I feel invisible in that

I feel I feel unseen. All this has happened away from me. I was

not involved, or I was very minimally involved, right? And

so if you're going to come in with a change, then what would

make sense would be to send out an email and ask one or two very

open ended questions about those things, or about the aspects of

their job that are going to be affected by the change? How do

you feel about and feel is very important. How do you not think,

but feel? How do you feel about this particular workflow or this

particular process? Or, you know, what, what is this kind of

thing? This does two things. One, it gives you an idea of

like where they're at, so you know, the listening that you're

speaking into, so that you can connect with what they're

thinking as they're listening to you. The other thing it does is

it gives them an opportunity to actually process how they feel

about those things. And then like for instance, if it's

really inefficient and ineffective, and it actually

makes more work for people for an example. And this is a

streamline process. If they process that out in a note for

you. It's like, well, it's all right. But you know, it'd be

better if it was like this, or if that we didn't have to do

that or whatever. And they're being candid. If you're an

environment where people feel safe, to be candid with their

direct reports, that's something to keep in mind. There has to be

a level of safety for this kind of sharing, but even it's still

valuable to send out that questionnaire because then they

are going to have a chance to process it in their minds before

they are blindsided with it with your exciting news. Guess what

we're doing this and it's gonna be like that. And it's like

that's different and different is like really disruptive. So

they've had some time to pre process. Now they actually are

in a place that you can start engaging them with what's going

on, instead of kind of being met with maybe stony faced people or

like, Yea, or just giving you what they think they need to

give you get out of the meeting and go grumble among themselves,

about what you know what that is. Because that there's going

the resistance will not stop at the end of the meeting, even

though the train is going with that change. There will be

suffering, and there will be conflict, and there will be

issues with employees that are related to that that will show

up in different aspects of the relationship.

And how do you Oh, so that email that initial email

is so crucial. I think I mean, that's, I think, like you

mentioned, maybe not all leaders will do that. And it's part

it's, it's such a huge part. And is it do you recommend that they

reach out to every single team member? And also, I think like

the questions that you said, how you feel about it is like so

important, because I think it's there's a difference between

interrogation like, they might think they're asking me these

questions how I frame the answer is going to be crucial. So I

think going back to do we ask the whole team and all the team

members? And also how do we bring safety? Because I think

that's a huge part so that they answer in a way that's

authentic, right? And not in a way that's contrived, because

they think change might be happening. If I say the wrong

answer, yes, or no,

those I mean, those are two different those are,

those are like safety is a whole nother podcast, we can we can

touch on it. But it truly is like this psychological safety.

Like none of this other stuff works unless people feel

physically and psychologically safe. We make the assumption

that like, Oh, you look safe at work looks like but that that

actually that it's a low bar, right? Because it's like, if

they're being reactive to anything that comes up that this

change can't be good, then they're not safe, there isn't a

culture of safety that's present. So first, your

question, though, is who gets it, who gets the questions, or

anybody who's being affected by the change.

Because by by actually sharing out loud how they feel about it,

allows them to release how they feel about it, which can create

an opening in them to feel differently about it, when you

actually present and process with it. Because here's

the big thing that's that is really missing. And so

much of this kind of communication, and wanting

people to move with a new plan is that we have to give people

time to integrate the change, or they're always going to be

pushing against all their feelings about the past, and all

of their all of their feelings about it that may not be

relevant. And they may not even want to have those feelings

about it. But they're going to be there. And then they're going

to manifest in different disruptive ways that you can't

put a finger on, because you won't know that was because we

changed this process last month. Now you're doing this, which is

in a different context, right? But it's like it's when the

integration isn't there. So everybody gets the questions

that are and, and the questions can be like, Hey, this is just

for, we just want to understand where you're at, and, and how

you're feeling about like how things are working to inform our

decisions. Well, that intent creates safety, because it's

saying, I want to take you into consideration and your feelings

and your experience in the decisions I'm making that

establishes a context of safety and appreciation and being seen

and include it even though I didn't come until ask Melinda,

you give me the best plan for this, you know, I didn't ask you

to do it. But I'm getting your input on it. And then they pre

process it by by sharing with you and an email would be easy

and efficient. And then when you come in and you present it, the

presentation is followed by a integral, a discussion. And the

discussion is for the intention of integrating what is going to

happen and how it's going to affect people and integrating

their feelings about it. Because human beings are driven by

feelings. We go feelings out of business will work with robots,

because humans are driven by feelings. So the more that

you're into helping people to integrate their feelings, that's

what the less resistance, you'll get for things that shouldn't

this change is not a big deal. Why are people acting like it

is? Well, it's because their resistance is rising because

they didn't have an opportunity to actually integrate the change

and how they felt about it and hold it and the way they

integrate that is by processing sharing with each other sharing

out loud sharing, sharing, sharing how this happens,

typically when it's not facilitated by leadership, is it

people go away from the meeting? And then they talk amongst

themselves?

Right, right.

But depending on the culture and how either

healthy or toxic it is, they either commiserate, if it's a

really healthy culture, and people feel they feel safe and

happy, they generally do the integrating amongst themselves.

But you bring it into the process, then then it feels like

management. And the team is actually doing that plus, what

comes out of that integration is going to be really informative,

to the leaders of the people they're working with, they're

going to actually see what's happening within their people

that can inform their decisions about how to work with the

people, because they're getting into their worlds, because

we're, you know, talking about silos, we're all siloed in our

heads, and when leaders only talk to leaders and like, cook

up an idea, and then they roll it out, then they're going to be

coming up against resistance all the time. Right, right. I hear

from leaders, my clients, they go, Well, we've given them time

to process, we've answered all their questions, and they're

still resistant. From the leaders perspective, what does

that mean? It feels like given them time to process so they

they've given them time to discuss it in meetings over and

over several times already. And so from the leaders perspective,

leaders like, Okay, we've already talked about this went

like there was more wanting to move forward, because they feel

like the they're still the people, the members or don't

want to move forward, they're still rich. So what that tells

me Melinda, is that the processing, no one was heard in

the processing. And so here's here's a really important

distinction about human beings for leaders right now, is that

if somebody comes in and wants to be able to tell you how wrong

everything is about how things are working, and how they're

going, and how they would like it to be, they don't necessarily

for for that to be a win and for them to reintegrate into the

processes, that is the plan that everyone is working, you don't

need to agree with them or adopt all their ideas. And there is

this there is this resistance like, well, if I let them say

it, then I gotta do something about it, the doing about it, is

hearing it, understanding it and empathising, with their

experience, and letting them get it all out. This releases all

that stuff. And you know, what happens when they release all

these feelings, these thoughts and all that? You know, what

happens? The resistance, yeah.

Right. Right. That makes sense. That makes a lot of

sense.

It's really important to think in terms of

in terms of the resistance and allowing how, as a leader are

you allowing people to open and express and to release, so it

can be let go of so that we can then come together again, and an

idea, because a lot of this resistance that they're talking

about is unconscious resistance, there isn't like, let's Well,

what should we do now? Well, let's have a coach, let's have

somebody do a presentation, let's get a motivational

speaker. You know, it's like, those are external things. And

those are fine. I'm not saying they're bad ideas, but I'm

saying is that if you really want that resistance to release,

then the processing has to be an actual formal processing, like

kinda like a reconciliation. It is not not like one, it is a

reconciliation. You know, like, when South Africa did their

whole, they did a huge, big truth and reconciliation. And

they I mean, they're, they're trying to reconcile like major,

major trauma. I mean, that's like, that's, like gigantic

compared to what companies deal with, right. But what made it

work in that extreme of case is that people were heard and seen,

and when they're heard and seen, they can let go of whatever

petty, I don't like this, and I don't You're making me do that.

And all this kind of that gets released, they can let that go

and be content.

I love that. And then the resistance comes down.

And then the resistance.

Yeah, because they're just they're all the

little petty stuff is all made up in their head because they

haven't felt seen or hurt. Yeah, because the mind will generate

lots of reasons. Lots of reasons why it's not going to work or

why it's not good. Why not? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And stuff that isn't isn't

productive for anybody. And nobody feels better after it.

And they still feel unheard. And then they still feel like that

this plan was railroaded, right? Yeah. So the big question is,

how do we present this in a way so nobody feels like we're

railroading this plan. And you do it in such a way where it's

like you give them some time to pre process what's coming. You

don't have to tell them exactly, but you want to ask questions to

have them process around the change.

You're going to make and then you come in you present it, then

you do another round of processing real processing and

integration, which is them sharing how they've lost. I

don't like it, say more about that. Well, this, you know, and

then focus on feelings. How did that make you feel? Well, it

really makes me feel frustrated, because I've been doing it this

way. And I just get uncomfortable about change. I

got that. And then they hear themselves say that and go, Oh,

well, that's what that is. Right? And they're even

discovering is their you being heard and sharing. And the

leadership doesn't have to go, Okay, we're gonna rework this

whole thing based upon what everybody said, they're just

going, I'm hearing this, and maybe there is some things that

come out that might be good to tweak or change. But it's like,

it's bringing people together and allow raishin.

But so going to this, okay, I'm frustrated by

this. I'm frustrated. So they said it out loud. And sometimes

people just stay in their frustration. Like, sometimes

they're able to, like the resistance comes down. But

sometimes they're just stuck.

They stay in their frustration if they're not

heard.

Like, there's times where I'm like, I hear you, I

hear your frustration. And then we just leave it there. Like, we

just hey, let's just be in this frustration. We get that I get

that. And then to transition them out of that sometimes. Even

I have maybe more conversations. Yeah, right.

Yeah, the truth is, if you really want harmony,

you've got to do the work to have harmony,

maybe how can we help you get out of this

frustration? Is that good question? How can we alleviate

some of your frustration with change, then?

Well, I would caution against so I would

caution against problem solving. Right? Because so first off

their frustration isn't a problem. So it's like exploring

the exploring the feeling like okay, so So what's happening?

When does this frustration come up? Is this something you feel

every day? Because by exploring it deeper with them and asking

more questions, rather than going directly to problem

solving, right? Because where we tend to want to go is like, Oh,

let me fix this for you, Melinda, then it's not we're not

we're not gonna fix anything for anybody. We're gonna say you're

capable of regulating and fixing yourself. So what we're going to

do is we're going to go, well, let's go deeper into this

frustration. And the point of doing that is not so you can

find out what you need to fix it, Melinda. It's so they can

hear for themselves what they're saying. And they get to it. Oh,

well, and then they can maybe get to like, well, I just like,

it just stresses me out whenever we change anything around here,

because it just it's just, it just does. Yeah, I got that.

Okay, well, what so what can you do to soothe yourself? Like what

would be a way to kind of like, ease that for yourself? How can

I support you in easing that for yourself?

Or like, it'd be like, how many what like, when

did that happen? When did you have when did this happen

before? That is built up this frustration? Like talk about the

different narratives that have created it before? Like you

said, asking there is a part where you can ask them, Well,

how can we how can you alleviate that, but even before that,

there might be a lot of narratives that have created

like hell Sure. To talk about that.

Well, and I hear where you're, I'ma hear where

you're going with that. So my only caution is this is that the

questions I hear you asking are questions that sound like you're

trying to get the root of the problem to fix. And this isn't

actually there's actually not a problem to fix here. What there

is, is a process to let them work out whatever there is, so

they arrive for themselves at what's left. Because once you

know when someone is heard, and once they like, air out all the

stuff that they feel, then usually what they're left with,

is what the irritation is, I'll give you an example a long time

ago, I used to work in the events business. And, and I was

I was a core i was an MC I was also like coordinating the

activities in the event, I was working with catering. And we

had made some kind of change and things are going really bad for

the caterer. And the guy came up and we moved to table and he was

furious. And he just lit into me about like how I was ruining

everything for him. And so at first I was like, What the heck,

like, I'm not ruining everything for you. I'm actually making

this great for you like this is kind of where I'm at, right?

Because that's what I am there to do is to make everything flow

make everything great. But in that moment, I was able to

actually distinguish and going, Oh, he's upset. We need to have

him be upset so he can actually see what he's upset about

because with the kind of unresolved frustration that

you're talking about that is of piles of frustrations, and so we

need to get the pile expressed asked to get to the bottom. So

he was like, You're this and you're that and you made this

and you and he's like totally projecting it on me. He's

blaming me. And I'm like, that's fine, you could do that. And I

stopped processing with him. And I just said, Oh, I get that. I

hear you. What else? What else is there? What else is there for

you? What else is there? And he just kept going and going and

going, you know what happened? He was up here at like, flip

out, like you wanted to hit me with a chair. And then as he

kept talking, and I kept getting it and hearing it, it was

releasing. And so it came down and down and down, down, down.

And then he was almost call. And I was like, so I so what's the

challenge? How can I help?

He's like, I don't want that table there. So where would you

like that table? I want it over there. I'm like, great. How

would that feel? That would feel awesome. I'm like, terrific. We

moved the table. He went back to work. And there was no issues

the rest of the night. Like, you know, there was no stink eye

here. You know? Yeah. So

I love all that if I love this, this is there's so

much value nuggets. It's priceless. Priceless. This has

been so much fun. Just keep on going because there's so stay

tuned next week. I know part two with Jason Jones. I think we do

another one. But thank you so much for your valuable insight.

It's really appreciate it's always good to connect with you.

I

ya know, there's so much there's so much wisdom that you've just

shared. And I really thank you for that.

So thank you. I appreciate

I mean, tell the listeners how they can get a

hold of you what's new in media programmes, like how do you

Sure? Sure, I'm easy to find. It's the name of my company is

the coaching our what we specialise in is we specialise

in transforming people's communication to shift away from

positional conversations into collaborative conversations. A

lot of what we talked about today is like in that realm of

like collaborating with people in your communication, and doing

that sort of thing. And the focus, our primary focus right

now is for fractional leaders that are transitioning into

their own consultancy, because they're like, oh my gosh, how do

I sell myself and we really specialise in helping non sales

people become really good at enrolling new business and

opportunities, not using sales speak or any of that. But by

authentically connecting and relating and being able to see

what's going on for somebody and having that awareness. And so

this is what we work on. And it's been doing amazing results

for people in their business in their lives. It's been so fun.

Yeah, yeah. Because you people see right through it if you're

not connecting with them. Oh, yeah, that was process. Yeah. So

you're done is done. You're toast.

So yeah, I love what you teach. I love I mean, I've always

learned so much from you in the past and even today, so thank

you again, Jason. Connect with Jason on the coaching and the

coaching our.com. We'll put his website in the show notes. So

thanks again. I'll see you until next time.

All right. Till next time