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This episode is so fun, as you would expect an interview with an expert on play to be.
Roya and Nellie go deeper than the smiles and giggles when it comes to play and examine the bigger effects at play (pun totally intended!)
How does play affect their curiosity, validation, perspective on diversity, tolerance, problem-solving, and more!
We are not just talking about barbies, cars, and kitchen here either. We are talking about video games, board games, card games, interactive play, and those things that tweens and teens do to explore their curiosity and creativity.
This is a great episode to help connect parents with their kids through play and, bonus, we go through some great television for your family to enjoy together!
About the Guest:
Roya Dedeaux
Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist
http://instagram.com/royadedeaux
Roya Dedeaux MFT:
Roya Dedeaux is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist with a focus on parenting and play. She has a Bachelor’s degree in Recreation and a Master’s degree in Counseling from California State University, Long Beach.
About the Host:
Nellie Harden is a wife of 20+ years, mom to 4 teen/tween daughters, dreamer, adventurer, servant, multipreneur, forever student, and a devoted teacher, but her ride-or-die passion is her work as a Family Life Coach & Mentor.
Coming from a career background in marine mammal sciences, behavioral work, and a host of big life experiences, both great and not some not so great, she decided that designing a life of purpose and freedom was how she and her husband, along with their 4 daughters, wanted to live.
Her work and passions exist in the realms of family and parent mentorship because she believes that a family filled with creativity, fun, laughter, challenge, adventure, problem-solving, hugs, good food, and learning can not only change a person’s life but is the best chance at positively changing the world.
She helps families build Self-Led Discipline™ & Leadership Into their homes, sets their children up for a wildly successful life on their terms, and elevates the family experience with big joy, palpable peace, and everyday growth!
With a lifelong passion and curiosity in thought, choice, behavior, and growth she has found incredible joy in helping families shift perspective, find answers, and a path forward.
(Nellie has been coaching families for over 10 years and has degrees in Biology, Animal Behavior and Psychology. )
LINKS:
Family Success Vault- https://www.nellieharden.com/vault
Website- https://www.nellieharden.com
Online Community- https://www.facebook.com/groups/the6570project
Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/nellieharden/
Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/nellie.harden/
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Hello and welcome to the 6570 family project
Nellie Harden:podcast. If you are a parent of a tween teen or somewhere on the
Nellie Harden:way, this is exactly the place for you. This is the playground
Nellie Harden:for parents who want to raise their kids with intention,
Nellie Harden:strength and joy. Come and hear all the discussions, get all the
Nellie Harden:tactics and have lots of laughs along the way. We will dive into
Nellie Harden:the real challenges and raising kids today how to show up as
Nellie Harden:parents and teach your kids how to show up as members of the
Nellie Harden:family and individuals of the world. My name is Mellie Hardin,
Nellie Harden:big city girl turn small town sipping iced tea on the front
Nellie Harden:porch mama, who loves igniting transformation in the hearts and
Nellie Harden:minds of families by helping them build self love, discipline
Nellie Harden:and leadership that elevate the family experience, and sets the
Nellie Harden:kids up with a rock solid foundation they can launch their
Nellie Harden:life on all before they ever leave home. This is the 6570
Nellie Harden:family project. Let's go
Nellie Harden:Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the 6570
Nellie Harden:family project podcast. You guys I have a wonderful guest on
Nellie Harden:today and we are going to talk about play. Roya dough is a
Nellie Harden:licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and she focuses on
Nellie Harden:parenting and play. She has a bachelor's degree in RX and a
Nellie Harden:master's degree in counseling from California State University
Nellie Harden:Long Beach been there it is gorgeous. You guys, I had such a
Nellie Harden:great time in this interview. Because I feel like play is such
Nellie Harden:a great playground pun intended for curiosity and validation,
Nellie Harden:and problem solving and getting in there and just exploring
Nellie Harden:right going on adventures. Even if you don't leave your home,
Nellie Harden:which right now in our week of pandemic, who knows, you know
Nellie Harden:when this is going to fully alleviate. And sometimes we need
Nellie Harden:to be able to use our minds to go on adventures even when we're
Nellie Harden:just sitting still. So whether that's imaginative play, whether
Nellie Harden:that means you are playing Candyland for the 19 million
Nellie Harden:time or you have a tween or teen in the house and you are talking
Nellie Harden:and playing with them on some video games, or you are playing
Nellie Harden:some different kinds of more adulty board games with them.
Nellie Harden:Maybe you like us are doing escape rooms, there's some We
Nellie Harden:love going to escape rooms. And right now you just can't get to
Nellie Harden:them all that often. But thanks to my sister getting us a
Nellie Harden:Christmas gift of one last year, we were able to do an escape
Nellie Harden:room at home. They're so fun, and we love doing them as a
Nellie Harden:family. And having that that's a perfect example of problem
Nellie Harden:solving. And remember, when we are in the 6570 we are building
Nellie Harden:with truth and trust. We are building this foundation with
Nellie Harden:our kids so that they can leave home with confidence and respect
Nellie Harden:and wisdom in their DNA so they can go off and just rule life
Nellie Harden:and have a wonderful experience with whatever comes their way
Nellie Harden:their unique greatness. They can use that and that's what we're
Nellie Harden:doing in the 6570 and having a great time doing it. So listen,
Nellie Harden:and let's go ahead and get started with this interview with
Nellie Harden:Roya. You are going to love it. Hello, everyone. Okay, you guys,
Nellie Harden:I have been talking to you about the awesomeness of Roya here and
Nellie Harden:I cannot wait to bring her on. And first I just want to welcome
Nellie Harden:you to the podcast today.
Roya Dedeaux:I'm so excited. All the things we're going to
Roya Dedeaux:talk about are my favorite things to talk about.
Nellie Harden:Oh, me too. Me too. I'm so excited as well. And
Nellie Harden:we were talking and chatting beforehand and we are definitely
Nellie Harden:both cut from the same cloth. And this is going to be a fun
Nellie Harden:conversation today but also a very impactful conversation. So
Nellie Harden:warm up your cheeks for some laughs and, and also warm up
Nellie Harden:your mind for some great info that you are going to be getting
Nellie Harden:today. You guys. So I know I already told you all about who
Nellie Harden:she is. And we're what she has been able to do and contribute
Nellie Harden:to this wonderful world of families. But I want to know
Nellie Harden:from you kind of your story, right? Because so many of us
Nellie Harden:have this weird convoluted path that gets us to where we are and
Nellie Harden:how we are contributing to the world. And I find them so
Nellie Harden:fascinating because I know mine, you know mine involves humpback
Nellie Harden:whales and you're like how does humpback whales involve? You
Nellie Harden:know? So it's just all crazy and I want to know tell us a bit
Nellie Harden:about your convoluted and fantastic story to get where you
Nellie Harden:are today.
Unknown:Oh I love that. I was actually thinking my book was
Unknown:kangaroo rats, but that's a whole a whole other story. So my
Unknown:parents pulled me out of public school after fourth grade. So I
Unknown:never went back to public school after that. And I was furious. I
Unknown:was about to be a fifth grader, I was gonna get a locker the
Unknown:next year, I was so excited. And my parents, that's a podcast all
Unknown:by itself. But basically, they were seeing our love of learning
Unknown:and our curiosity, getting made fun of by other classmates, and
Unknown:just kind of getting stomped out. This is where the kangaroo
Unknown:rat comes in. I want to be a marine biologist, they made me
Unknown:study that little dinky desert animal and I was furious. And
Unknown:that's the whole thing. So. So they pulled us out of school, my
Unknown:sisters and I. And then I started taking community college
Unknown:classes a few years later, and was able to dive into ceramics
Unknown:and theatre, I was in a Shakespeare group, I basically
Unknown:lived at the ceramics studio, I got to take English classes. And
Unknown:then a teacher actually read what I wrote and talk to me, I
Unknown:was so exciting. And basically, they just gave us all this
Unknown:incredible time to pursue what we are interested in. And so my
Unknown:life consisted of diving full body in to whatever I was
Unknown:interested in for like a month at a time, except for the things
Unknown:that were like 10 years at a time. But I was just I was into
Unknown:this. And I was into that. And I was into this. And I couldn't
Unknown:have done it if I was dizzy. And I some point wanted to get a
Unknown:degree and couldn't figure out what on earth that was going to
Unknown:be because I couldn't commit to any one particular, you know,
Unknown:topic or interest. And it was actually my mom who said, you
Unknown:know, there is this degree called Recreation and Leisure
Unknown:Studies. And I basically pursued it as the route to be able to
Unknown:keep all my options open and to keep getting to dive from thing
Unknown:to thing to thing. So I got a degree in Rec and leisure. I was
Unknown:homeschooled, we were actually unschooled, which is a whole
Unknown:again, another another podcast. But basically, my entire life
Unknown:was about the important adults, helping support me with what my
Unknown:passions were. And so I thought I was doing all this to get to
Unknown:an art camp in art therapy camp at some point. And I found
Unknown:myself in private practice, loving it. And then I kept
Unknown:getting drawn to the people who like weren't quite fitting the
Unknown:mold of school, and maybe they had a diagnosis that didn't
Unknown:really help them sit still, in a classroom, I had the Rec and
Unknown:leisure background with certificate and outdoor
Unknown:recreation. So all of these things mean really, if I turn
Unknown:around and look backwards, right, that the path makes
Unknown:sense, the things that I did where I am now it makes total
Unknown:sense, could not have predicted I'd be a therapist, in a private
Unknown:practice, not what I thought I was. But, um, but everything
Unknown:just comes down to the importance and power of play,
Unknown:and parents supporting their kids on that and how it impacts
Unknown:on every single level of relationship, mental health, all
Unknown:the things. So that's my superfast story.
Nellie Harden:Oh, I love it. And I could not agree more about
Nellie Harden:play. And what it does. I mean, my husband and I are self
Nellie Harden:professed kids, you know, we're just 40 something year old kids,
Nellie Harden:you know, and I hope I'm like that until I'm 120. Because
Nellie Harden:that's the age that my husband and I say we're gonna live to,
Nellie Harden:and we're sticking to it. So. But, you know, my goal even
Nellie Harden:when, so I worked in still doing discipline studies with
Nellie Harden:families, but I worked in the wellness field for a long time.
Nellie Harden:And my goal was always to help families be able to play with
Nellie Harden:their grandkids and their great grandkids, if possible. And that
Nellie Harden:was always the vision I had in my head. It was always these
Nellie Harden:grandparents and great grandparents playing running
Nellie Harden:around on a beach with their grandkids or great grandkids.
Nellie Harden:And I find it interesting that that lightness that play that
Nellie Harden:fun that laughter I mean, big belly laughs are like a
Nellie Harden:requirement in our house every day when we get through a day
Nellie Harden:without a big belly laugh, like something's going on, you know,
Nellie Harden:and, and just playing and being goofy and dance parties and
Nellie Harden:voices, you know, all the crazy. But there was definitely a point
Nellie Harden:in my life that I wish I shied away from that because I didn't
Nellie Harden:grow up necessarily with that as a basic nature in my family. And
Nellie Harden:it took me a long time to give myself permission to do that
Nellie Harden:with for myself and for my kids. And I to when I when I put my
Nellie Harden:kids into homeschooling, my oldest was going into fifth
Nellie Harden:grade and I loved you know, I think you were mentioning that
Nellie Harden:your creativity was kind of being diluted and pushed down a
Nellie Harden:bit, which is why they took you out. And I could definitely see
Nellie Harden:that with my kids, which was one of our reasons too. So I just
Nellie Harden:wanted to resonate with you on that high five, you know,
Nellie Harden:through the screen for that. But so with all that being said, you
Nellie Harden:wrote that as a grown homeschool Are you conducted the largest
Nellie Harden:study related to mental health and homeschooling in the United
Nellie Harden:States? And I'm really interested about this. And may I
Nellie Harden:preface this with saying that I, even though I do homeschool, I
Nellie Harden:don't think that homeschool is the be all end all. And everyone
Nellie Harden:should, or frankly can do it. But it is an option for some
Nellie Harden:people. But even if you don't homeschool play is at the top of
Nellie Harden:the list. Right? So I want you to tell me about this study?
Nellie Harden:Like, what did it involve? What did it look like? What did you
Nellie Harden:get from it? And then how did you use that information to, you
Nellie Harden:know, extrapolate information and do what you do now.
Unknown:So I was part of my master's thesis, and he had the
Unknown:choice in my department, if you wanted to take a set of
Unknown:comprehensive exams, or if you want to do a thesis, and are in
Unknown:our whole cohort, I think four of us decided to do the year
Unknown:long thesis. So we got tight. And so I knew, I knew I wanted
Unknown:to study homeschoolers on some level, because there really
Unknown:aren't that many studies. And so when people come to me, and they
Unknown:say, things like, yes, but have you seen all the damage that
Unknown:video games can do, or all the, you know, when I let my kids
Unknown:watch too much screens, all this? One of the big issues is
Unknown:that those studies are being done on kids whose entire time
Unknown:is being controlled one way or another. They don't have a lot
Unknown:of free time. And so those studies don't really apply to
Unknown:homeschoolers who yes, if you only have a half an hour a day,
Unknown:that's yours, and you're spending it playing a game that
Unknown:will impact you differently than if you have your entire day
Unknown:where you have agency and control and you choose to spend
Unknown:four of those hours playing Minecraft, right? It's going to
Unknown:impact you differently. So I knew I wanted to do some
Unknown:studies. Because I was in therapy school, I chose to study
Unknown:homeschoolers attitudes towards seeking therapy, because one of
Unknown:the barriers that I see over and over again, for homeschool
Unknown:families is there's other stuff happening. Like just because
Unknown:you're homeschooling family doesn't mean, there aren't other
Unknown:family dynamics, there's not anxiety or depression, or you
Unknown:have the need to reparent or maybe some actual trauma coming
Unknown:from your school experience. And that's why you're homeschooling.
Unknown:And so many of the families that I've now worked with, told me
Unknown:that they couldn't seek therapy, because the therapist didn't
Unknown:understand homeschooling. And so their entire, they've come to
Unknown:them and say, like, look there, here's this complex list of
Unknown:issues that I have. And the therapist would say, well put
Unknown:your kids in school that'll solve it. And so I was assuming
Unknown:that homeschoolers would have a lower tendency to seek out
Unknown:mental health resources, even though homeschooling
Unknown:demographics otherwise are in the category of people who are
Unknown:higher in seeking out mental health resources, economically,
Unknown:and educational wise, and stuff like that. So but then, since I
Unknown:was going to do a measurement anyway, I was like, Well, why
Unknown:does might as well do five. And so I didn't only study their
Unknown:attitude towards seeking mental health, but I also studied
Unknown:happiness. And I really wish I could remember the names of all
Unknown:the measurement tools I used, but I looked at happiness. I
Unknown:looked at state and trait anxiety, and looked at
Unknown:homeschooling myths and the demographics. I could talk about
Unknown:that as well. I also looked at value distribution. And I
Unknown:compared homeschoolers. I compared unschoolers. And I
Unknown:compared to the general population of these particular
Unknown:measurement tools. And so it was fascinating. I had, I don't
Unknown:know, something like 40 different hypotheses that I went
Unknown:through, it was a very, I have a book. I mean, I have a book, but
Unknown:my biggest takeaway was that, oh, and I was looking at
Unknown:specifically grown homeschoolers. And so people
Unknown:over the age of 18, who had been homeschooled, or unschooled, and
Unknown:I was looking at parents who were doing the homeschooling.
Unknown:And so I also separated those numbers out to look at. And I
Unknown:think I got somebody from every state except to I want to say if
Unknown:I'm remembering correctly, I got 1000s of participants. It was
Unknown:wonderful. So any case my main takeaway is that homeschoolers
Unknown:are every bit as happy as the general population. There is no
Unknown:shocking mental health disparity in terms of anxiety or
Unknown:depression, we are not crazier than that of the normal, the
Unknown:general population, the mainstream, and adults who
Unknown:homeschool are statistically significantly happier. We also
Unknown:rank our values differently. And the one that I remember the
Unknown:standing out the most is that curiosity values very, very
Unknown:highly in homeschooling in the homeschooling population in that
Unknown:sample
Unknown:and I think you We talk about play as being so important that
Unknown:I think that if I look at play as the solution for all the
Unknown:things that need solutions in our world, the reason why play
Unknown:is so important and playfulness is because it sets a foundation
Unknown:for things like curiosity and creativity, divergent thinking,
Unknown:teamwork, problem solving, being able to look at one thing from a
Unknown:lot of different angles. It's the place where those
Unknown:characteristics are celebrated and nurtured and give us the
Unknown:place to do that. And so I think play by itself is important. And
Unknown:it's light hearted, like you said, and it's fun and
Unknown:spontaneous. But I don't think we should ignore the fact that
Unknown:it has incredibly hard hitting heavy, impactful results, like
Unknown:all of those characteristics. And I think that's why we
Unknown:measured happier.
Nellie Harden:Yeah. When you're saying that, like diversity
Nellie Harden:comes into mind, too, because when you're playing, you're
Nellie Harden:usually talking about all sorts of fantastical created creatures
Nellie Harden:when my kids were little I remember we used to, it probably
Nellie Harden:comes because I overwatched Bedknobs and Broomsticks when I
Nellie Harden:was a kid, but so we would all get on a bed. And we would go
Nellie Harden:travel to a magical place called Orelia. And, and along the way,
Nellie Harden:there was water and there would be like Wolf sharks that would
Nellie Harden:walk out and greet us. And there would be all of these things,
Nellie Harden:you know, and we, we were apart as humans, we were the only
Nellie Harden:humans there, right. And there was all of this diversity of
Nellie Harden:creatures. And I think that's one of the lasting effects that
Nellie Harden:can happen with play, too. And so a couple of things. I'm
Nellie Harden:curious about real quick for our listeners, can you quickly
Nellie Harden:because it's come up just a couple of times, define
Nellie Harden:unschooling versus homeschooling?
Unknown:Sure. There's, I mean, there's pages and pages and
Unknown:pages of people talking about the difference. But yes,
Unknown:homeschooling big umbrella. And there's a lot of different ways
Unknown:to homeschool. And so for some people that might look like
Unknown:mimicking school at home, with curriculum, you sit at a table
Unknown:for a certain amount of time a day parent acts as teacher.
Unknown:That's one end of the spectrum. And then all the way on the
Unknown:other end of the spectrum is unschooling where parents are
Unknown:absolutely engaged, they're watching their kids, they're
Unknown:paying attention, but they're letting their kids interests and
Unknown:their kids passions lead the charge. And so but it's still
Unknown:it's not just like, Oh, you're interested in the ocean, let's
Unknown:now do a unit study about whales. It's, it's more
Unknown:philosophical than that in terms of like not talking about
Unknown:subjects, not testing, not dividing things. kind of
Unknown:arbitrarily based on like, oh, is this math or social studies
Unknown:or history, but just that, like, we learn from life, and we
Unknown:learn, as things come up, we learn what we need to learn when
Unknown:it comes up. And the parents job is to pay really good attention,
Unknown:to support them in those things and kind of screw stuff in their
Unknown:path and help provide resources and just really like it's to me
Unknown:hyper engaged with the kid at the helm in that way. Yeah.
Unknown:Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's very brief. There's, again, pages and
Unknown:pages of people talking about the philosophical differences of
Unknown:that,
Nellie Harden:you know, and so I, I love teaching. And so I
Nellie Harden:operate at that one end of the spectrum, I literally for two
Nellie Harden:and a half hours a day, stand in front of a whiteboard. And we
Nellie Harden:teach, and I have a degree in biology, psychology. And so I
Nellie Harden:and I love history. So I love you know, teaching history and
Nellie Harden:learning about geography, because, quite frankly, I my
Nellie Harden:husband and I are public school kids through and through. I
Nellie Harden:could not I you know, if if you would have asked me where
Nellie Harden:Minnesota was probably eight years ago, I don't know
Nellie Harden:somewhere in the middle, I don't know, you know, and so, but
Nellie Harden:teaching my kids I've been able to learn so much, and we have so
Nellie Harden:much fun doing it. But that is how we do things. And I really
Nellie Harden:appreciate that flexibility with homeschooling. I know a friend
Nellie Harden:of mine that taught an entire year, every subject, you know,
Nellie Harden:from science, to math, and all of that, but what they learned
Nellie Harden:about all year was skateboarding. And everything
Nellie Harden:was just learned through skateboarding, the physics of
Nellie Harden:skateboarding, right, and like you're saying, it wasn't like,
Nellie Harden:right now we're learning about math. Right now we're learning
Nellie Harden:about this, right? And so we do a hybrid and our school where in
Nellie Harden:the mornings, I do some stuff and then in the afternoons, they
Nellie Harden:have their independent time to do like, two, three hours of
Nellie Harden:whatever they're doing. And so it has worked for us for seven
Nellie Harden:years, and it's been great. But anyway, I digress and I, I think
Nellie Harden:being able to play A is one of the most important things that
Nellie Harden:we can have in there, during and outside of school. But the whole
Nellie Harden:point is that school doesn't fit in the parameters of this time
Nellie Harden:to this time, right? I was just talking with someone earlier
Nellie Harden:today, where they were talking about some of the biggest
Nellie Harden:drivers of academic success. So we're talking about school
Nellie Harden:success in later. So college, you know, grad programs and
Nellie Harden:things like that, actually had to do with the mindset of
Nellie Harden:curiosity and education, and not to do with if they got an A and
Nellie Harden:precalc in, you know, 11th grade or not, you know,
Unknown:reading can take so far away from the intrinsic drive to
Unknown:learn more, it's a direct detriment to in fact, often,
Unknown:which is why I think I mean, I was a college teacher or
Unknown:professor until I went on maternity leave this year. But
Unknown:many of the students that I think actually learned the most,
Unknown:were my B and C students who weren't maybe so worried about
Unknown:the grade, and actually, like, dove in and retain the
Unknown:information as opposed to the students who were driven by the
Unknown:grit, I think that's one of the damages that the school can do
Unknown:is take away our innate curiosity and replace it with
Unknown:trying to achieve something extrinsic ly rewarding.
Nellie Harden:Absolutely. I was never an all a student, like
Nellie Harden:when I was in school, and I wasn't a B student. But all my
Nellie Harden:friends went off to based on their GPAs and their SATs and
Nellie Harden:all of that they went off to these Ivy League's right. And I
Nellie Harden:was like, I went to Indiana University, which was a great
Nellie Harden:school, and I had a great time. And I had, again, a BS when I
Nellie Harden:graduated, which is not bad. Like to be an AV student, I
Nellie Harden:think I had maybe a 3.2 GPA 3.2 3.3. You know, that is not
Nellie Harden:bad by any means. But I felt bad. I felt like I was not good
Nellie Harden:enough. I wasn't a good student, that academia wasn't my thing.
Nellie Harden:Because I didn't get you know, the super high scores on the
Nellie Harden:SATs and go to an Ivy League school. And so it really did
Nellie Harden:affect, you know, who I labeled myself as, as my identity. In my
Nellie Harden:wisdom. Even though academic wisdom is such a small part of
Nellie Harden:wisdom. It made me identify myself as not being smart, which
Nellie Harden:back then I was congruent with wisdom.
Unknown:Yeah, and this is I mean, this is the I'm gonna say
Unknown:this during a medical pandemic. But this is also a pandemic, I
Unknown:think that we experience with our school systems the way they
Unknown:are, is that and why again, playfulness. And play is so
Unknown:important because you, we don't learn things. When we're not
Unknown:ready for it. We just don't, we either get resentful, or angry.
Unknown:we internalize it right, as I'm dumb, or I'm stupid, I'm not
Unknown:good enough at it. We just don't learn it. And so if we get
Unknown:forced standard menu of like, you're supposed to be able to do
Unknown:this at this week, right? And on this date, you're supposed to be
Unknown:you're this age, you're supposed to be able to do this thing. And
Unknown:then we happen to be one of the people who we don't fit exactly
Unknown:in that little standard deviation curve. And it
Unknown:backfires, it does the opposite of educates us, right? It
Unknown:teaches us negative things about ourselves, or it causes us
Unknown:distress or anxiety. So then we when we are ready, we don't
Unknown:pursue that, because we already got the message that we aren't
Unknown:good at that thing, or we shouldn't even try. And so the
Unknown:wonderful thing about play again, is that all of those
Unknown:things that we say are important for kids to be exposed to or to
Unknown:learn, and that we want for them. If we can do it either, in
Unknown:a playful way. But even that is sometimes forced from the adult
Unknown:coming from above, right, but, but if we pay attention to what
Unknown:kids are playing, that is the platform where we can learn
Unknown:those things. We can learn mathematical thinking and
Unknown:skills, we learn language, that is how we learn language. I have
Unknown:a one year old, you know how she's learning how to talk,
Unknown:because we're playing silly games. It's the neural pathways
Unknown:for linguistic development happened through play. So do the
Unknown:neural pathways for hopefulness and resiliency and optimism and
Unknown:spatial reasoning and logic and like they happen through play.
Unknown:It's not separate from learning. So this is my soapbox.
Nellie Harden:So I have a quick question for you. That's a total
Nellie Harden:personal question of mine. So put on your therapist hat. I'd
Nellie Harden:love to know the answer to this. So when I was younger, I love to
Nellie Harden:play with Barbies with my cousins with my friends and
Nellie Harden:everything. As an adult, I despise playing Barbies. I
Nellie Harden:really do and when my kids tried to, you know, play them with me,
Nellie Harden:I would be you know, I would like grin and bear it for a
Nellie Harden:little while, and then I'm like, you know, I think your sister
Nellie Harden:just really wants to play this with you because I, I, I almost
Nellie Harden:felt allergic to playing with Barbies and doing all of this
Nellie Harden:roleplay stuff, but I don't know if it was the content of the
Nellie Harden:material, or what and the same goes for board games. I cannot
Nellie Harden:stand some board games. Now I love to play games, like and we
Nellie Harden:do. We do a lot of escape rooms in our family, they have them
Nellie Harden:online that you can do at home now, like they do a lot of these
Nellie Harden:things. But some of these board games I, I just cannot handle
Nellie Harden:it. So you tell me what's going on with me?
Unknown:Well, there is such a thing as burnout. Number one,
Unknown:okay, awesome. Games are really good. Like, we don't have to
Unknown:just play monopoly over and over again, because you search
Unknown:tabletop game and do Google, you will find incredible, amazing,
Unknown:just games are good, are actually accessible to everybody
Unknown:now, and so it's okay to not want to play the same thing over
Unknown:and over and over again. I will say when I have parents who are
Unknown:not the only parent to come to me and be like, Okay, I know
Unknown:that play is good. And I hate it. Please tell me, please help
Unknown:me. We are different kinds of people. I have to admit, I am
Unknown:not great at the make believe play. Like that's my like,
Unknown:really child, are we playing with like Veterinary and get
Unknown:our, it's okay. So big thing is to think about like, I don't
Unknown:want to, I don't want to pass that on to my kid, right. So I
Unknown:have to do the work, I have to pay attention to that I have to
Unknown:minimize my groaning and moaning as much as possible. And if
Unknown:that's the kind of play they want to do, I don't have to be
Unknown:the only person. It's hard during COVID times, but part of
Unknown:my job is not to just be everything for my kid. But to
Unknown:set them up for it. If I don't want to play that level of you
Unknown:know, suddenly they're super into I don't know, Pokemon,
Unknown:right. And you just, that is not your jam, can't stand it
Unknown:whatever. There are Pokeyman groups out there, you know, it
Unknown:is your job to support them in that pursuit. But you don't have
Unknown:to be the person playing over and over forever and ever. You
Unknown:do have to be the person though, to not speak badly about Pokemon
Unknown:and to not say their interest is dumb, or it's a waste of time
Unknown:right now, but put in 14 hours a day.
Nellie Harden:Okay, well, thank you for making me feel better
Nellie Harden:about that. And, you know, the same goes for Muppets, you know,
Nellie Harden:I was a muppet kid, I'm a child of the 80s. And now I just
Nellie Harden:cannot stand them. And my kids find it so funny because they
Nellie Harden:think I'm afraid of them. I'm like, I am not afraid of the
Nellie Harden:Muppets. I'm just Muppet it out. And it happened, you know, about
Nellie Harden:20 years ago and I just can't take it anymore like I did
Nellie Harden:Muppets Take Manhattan Muppets do this Muppets do that? I can't
Nellie Harden:take them up. It's anymore. But I mean, love Jim Henson, love
Nellie Harden:all the all the stuff, you know, that he created and gave me
Nellie Harden:entertainment? My childhood, but man, I just cannot.
Unknown:That's right. There's lots, there's so many. Yeah.
Nellie Harden:But they really, they really get a kick out of
Nellie Harden:it. Because when it comes on, I'm like, Oh, gosh. And they're
Nellie Harden:like, oh, look, mom's reacting to the Muppets. Oh, my gosh. So
Nellie Harden:okay, I want to talk about your book, because I think that this
Nellie Harden:incredible book that you put out, there is such a treasure.
Nellie Harden:So it was your first book connect with courage. And it was
Nellie Harden:subtitled practical ways to work through fear and find joy in the
Nellie Harden:places your kids take you. Which I find fascinating. Because I
Nellie Harden:tell you that my kids, my you know, my four kids, they have
Nellie Harden:taken me to some places, I never thought I would go emotionally,
Nellie Harden:mentally, sometimes even physically, you know, and so,
Nellie Harden:and some of them have been fraught with fear. And it's not
Nellie Harden:like you can return them or put them back in, you know, you got
Nellie Harden:to deal with it, you got to keep going. And so tell me more about
Nellie Harden:this book and your central message with it.
Unknown:So this book started because I was working with a
Unknown:client on these things that come up for my clients. And I because
Unknown:this is my focus right over and over again. And I was putting
Unknown:together just kind of an exercise sheet. Like just kind
Unknown:of what we were talking about right now. They're saying, my
Unknown:kid loves this thing. And I'm saying you have to do you have
Unknown:to look at that thing they love. And you have to come up with 15
Unknown:reasons why they might love it, like, this is your job to do.
Unknown:And so I was putting together just a little worksheet for
Unknown:them. And, you know, come up with five physical benefits come
Unknown:up with five emotional benefits come up with five, you know,
Unknown:social benefits. And I looked up like 80 pages later. And, and it
Unknown:was a workbook to start. And it was something that I was handing
Unknown:out to people in terms of just helping them with their
Unknown:connection with their kid because what I kept seeing over
Unknown:and over again, was they'd say, we're having struggles in our
Unknown:household here, have my child is a client, their child would come
Unknown:in and be like, Guess what, are the leading expert on this TV
Unknown:show? Or Guess what I'm super into this game. And I'd be like,
Unknown:That is super rad. Tell me about it. And we had a great
Unknown:relationship. And then what I was saying to parents where
Unknown:their parents were saying, that's a dumb interest or I'm
Unknown:going to take it away as punishment or Yeah, but you kind
Unknown:of like that card game thing. And, and the kids would just
Unknown:wither. And every time the parent would do that, it was
Unknown:like they were slamming another door when it could have been a
Unknown:bridge. So over and over again, I was just seeing this
Unknown:opportunity for connection for a better relationship, just kind
Unknown:of blocked off, and sometimes in really big, dramatic, painful
Unknown:ways. But more often am I really small, like one little brick at
Unknown:a time, you know. But those bricks add up to a really big
Unknown:wall overnight. And when you don't have that kind of
Unknown:relationship, that open door bridge with your parents, then
Unknown:later on, when it's a big deal, when it's a safety issue, or
Unknown:when it's, you know, I need you to come pick me up at this
Unknown:party, because I don't feel safe kind of thing. Those were the
Unknown:relationships that then the kids were less safe or less
Unknown:successful. And I was seeing it start so young at can play this
Unknown:game with me or anything, right. And so that was my goal was to
Unknown:help parents with those moments. And so as I started paying a
Unknown:little bit more clinical attention to it, I started to
Unknown:hear the same reasons why parents were struggling with it,
Unknown:even the parents who really want it to even the parents who saw
Unknown:the benefit. And I started seeing them in two categories,
Unknown:there were the logistical barriers, like, okay, cool, I
Unknown:want to buy I've got five kids, or this is the house we have,
Unknown:they can't turn the dining room into their own personal art
Unknown:studio. Or we just don't have the money for it. So seeing the
Unknown:logistical pieces, and then I was also seeing the emotional
Unknown:barriers. The I'm a pacifist, and all my kid wants to do is
Unknown:shoot Nerf guns, or I, you know, they're really into this video
Unknown:game, and it's super adult and violent, and I can't stand it.
Unknown:So the things that would really trigger people's fear. Yeah. So
Unknown:this book is basically divided into those barriers, the
Unknown:logistical and the emotional ones. And then it's got some
Unknown:very practical, helpful solutions, but it also has those
Unknown:original exercises in it to help the parents do their own work to
Unknown:figure out why does that then bother me? What am I afraid of?
Unknown:How can I view this differently, so that they have better
Unknown:relationships with their kids, and not just like, tolerable
Unknown:relationships with the thing, but actually find that joy? be
Unknown:delighted in I'm going to use your Muppets as an example. be
Unknown:delighted in puppetry. You know, and I've, I've watched some
Unknown:parents go from being truly phobic of something to I'm
Unknown:thinking of one in particular, where it was horseback riding
Unknown:and they wouldn't even go near to getting on horses and riding
Unknown:and haven't going camping and like amazing times with their
Unknown:kid, because they did that work. So that's, that's the book.
Nellie Harden:So I find that interesting. And this is the
Nellie Harden:reason I get a lot of people ask me, you know, why are you a not
Nellie Harden:a parenting coach, but you say you're a family, you know, life
Nellie Harden:and leadership coach, because it is the whole family that needs
Nellie Harden:to come together. And a lot of times, it is not necessarily the
Nellie Harden:work that the kid needs to do, although there's always that
Nellie Harden:too. But a family is a team. And a lot of times it's the work
Nellie Harden:that the parent needs to do. And I have had more self growth as a
Nellie Harden:parent than I have in any other area. And not just in the way of
Nellie Harden:I've had self growth because I've had to manage a lot. You
Nellie Harden:know, there is that piece to write as a parent, you know, I
Nellie Harden:think parents are the greatest, you know, business owners and
Nellie Harden:the greatest strategists because we can juggle 90 million things
Nellie Harden:at the same time. But further than that, it's that reflection
Nellie Harden:of Hold on. This is where I want my I want to build my child to
Nellie Harden:this is what I want them to take out of their childhood. What do
Nellie Harden:I need to do in myself in order to be the person that can teach
Nellie Harden:them that thing? Right. And there's a lot of work that can
Nellie Harden:happen with that sometimes based on our own childhoods and what
Nellie Harden:we have in our luggage, air quotes that we are bringing into
Nellie Harden:parenting, and what are we bringing into parenting that we
Nellie Harden:actually kind of don't want to bring in. And we have to be able
Nellie Harden:to recognize that and do something about it. And so yeah,
Nellie Harden:that's, that's fantastic. I love that. So go get the book, all
Nellie Harden:the listeners go get the book. So good. Okay, and lastly,
Nellie Harden:before we leave, Roy and I, we both speak TV, and by that we we
Nellie Harden:can shoot out these you know, I just related to that I again 80s
Nellie Harden:kid I grew up with a lot of TV, I love TV and movies, and
Nellie Harden:especially during the pandemic so many people have been
Nellie Harden:watching a lot of TV and as parents we're trying to build
Nellie Harden:that truth and trust with our kids all the time. Right which
Nellie Harden:goes back to everything that we've said in this episode so
Nellie Harden:far, and we want to see that in our T our or TV episodes two
Nellie Harden:and. And what I mean by that is, I notice when my kids were
Nellie Harden:little, and even now, my kids are 1614 1412 now, and even now,
Nellie Harden:if we're watching a show, or they're watching a show where
Nellie Harden:there is not a great relationship between the parents
Nellie Harden:and the kid, then they start mimicking that, right? Because
Nellie Harden:kids are active learners, they, they don't just learn something,
Nellie Harden:either passively or actively, but they, and they don't just
Nellie Harden:learn it and leave it right or learn it and decide they're
Nellie Harden:learning it and they're trying it out all at the same time. And
Nellie Harden:so, I noticed that if we're watching a show like that, then
Nellie Harden:there's some of these, like false aggressions, or false
Nellie Harden:spaces that are coming between us and I'm like, Well, what,
Nellie Harden:Where's this coming from? Right? Where are you learning this
Nellie Harden:from? What are you trying to get from this? Right? And so it's
Nellie Harden:just really interesting, but I would love to know, I with
Nellie Harden:people in this, you know, pandemic era that we have now
Nellie Harden:fallen into that some people say, Oh, I've watched Netflix,
Nellie Harden:right? I haven't just watched something on Netflix. I've like
Nellie Harden:watched Netflix, or I've watched to Disney Plus, I've watched you
Nellie Harden:know, I don't know, Apple TV, which seems crazy. But when
Nellie Harden:you're watching TV for two and a half years or two years,
Nellie Harden:whatever, you know, people can do that. And so I'm curious,
Nellie Harden:what are some of your favorite shows that you've watched as a
Nellie Harden:family that has not only been entertaining, but also grown?
Nellie Harden:Maybe the play or maybe the curiosity? Maybe the
Nellie Harden:relationship? So I'm curious,
Unknown:okay, I'm writing things down really quickly. So I
Unknown:can remember. It's this is cracking me up. Because right
Unknown:now downstairs on our kitchen door, we started talking with
Unknown:you know, we've been watching Encanto, five, yes, times a day.
Unknown:My kids have so my kids are young, and this might shock some
Unknown:people but they're about to be eight and about to be five and
Unknown:then I have an about to be one year old. And they've discovered
Unknown:the Simpsons, and I haven't watched this since I was 25. But
Unknown:all right, here we go. And so right now there's a Venn diagram
Unknown:of Encanto and The Simpsons on our downstairs because they
Unknown:started talking about like, oh, and they're both families and
Unknown:other cartoons. And you know, there are some people who are
Unknown:kind of mean and both of them and we just started comparing
Unknown:them so we threw it up on the wall. He'll love that. i It's
Unknown:funny so you have kids that are they they're try try and honors
Unknown:it sounds like right so if they see something and they kind of
Unknown:want to experiment with that
Nellie Harden:they do with some of them. Yeah,
Unknown:I I have I have one who's very much like that and
Unknown:one who is the outloud processor. And so the way I
Unknown:handle TV is going to be different with with my different
Unknown:kids just because they they do they try things on really
Unknown:differently. But I have to say okay, so, Shira, the new Shira,
Unknown:is one of our favorite TV shows as a family. It's amazing. It's
Unknown:everything that is right and good in the world. It's
Unknown:phenomenal. We love it. It's just fantastic.
Nellie Harden:I didn't even know there was a new Shira.
Unknown:It's on Netflix. There's four or five seasons I
Unknown:can't remember. It's just so good on every level. Oh my
Unknown:goodness. And the I can't remember exactly who is who's
Unknown:what but the people who did the Lumberjanes comics which are
Unknown:also phenomenal. They're the same writer the same artists the
Unknown:same there's some connection there. So if you like that it's
Unknown:there's a rabbit hole of goodness that it can be can't
Unknown:it's not a TV show. It's a movie but in Kanto is the best thing
Unknown:that happened in the mental health world since inside out.
Unknown:Hilda, if you've never watched the show, Hilda we love Hilda
Unknown:it's another animated think it's on Netflix. And she's just the
Unknown:quirkiest little adventure. And it's another show. My kids are
Unknown:very into relationships. So all of these shows we talk a lot
Unknown:about the friendships and the relationships and the parent
Unknown:child relationships and all of that. Brooklyn nine, nine, I
Unknown:think if you asked my seven year old What is your favorite show?
Unknown:He would say Brooklyn nine nine, quite possibly.
Nellie Harden:He loves it.
Unknown:We have a lot of conversations about things in
Unknown:the world. And survivor, we have as a family watching all 40
Unknown:gajillion seasons of surfer again together.
Nellie Harden:And that's an accurate assessment.
Unknown:It's I think it is it's 40 kajillion. And that was when
Unknown:I didn't really watch when it was like coming out for you
Unknown:Julian seasons ago. But now as a family, we're watching and
Unknown:sometimes re watching. And again, it's about the challenges
Unknown:but it's the relationships too. And then that stemmed into
Unknown:watching Top Chef because my seven year old is super into
Unknown:cooking and he likes to do the geography and around the world
Unknown:kind of stuff. So he just started getting to the point
Unknown:where real humans on TV are holding his head Attention and
Unknown:doesn't have to be cartoon which is a delight. To think of what's
Unknown:they really liked? There is a lot of story arc shows they
Unknown:like. Things like Elena of Abba lore or Sophia like the kind of
Unknown:long seasons of the same kingdom. Lion Guard. What else
Unknown:are we going back and forth? Oh, Odd Squad is wonderful. Watch
Unknown:Odd Squad. We watch a lot of TV.
Nellie Harden:Yeah, yeah. So same same kind of reason what
Nellie Harden:survivor, our family really likes Amazing Race. And so
Nellie Harden:watching that one is is a lot of fun. And we don't know
Nellie Harden:personally but a family that we watch closely. The Holderness
Nellie Harden:family is on the amazing race right now. And so we love
Nellie Harden:watching, watching them and their I just love their family.
Nellie Harden:So we get to watch them. And we feel we feel like we're watching
Nellie Harden:someone we know, even though they're like who
Unknown:one of my one of my students was on survivor. And so
Unknown:that was really fun. I actually I spent a week on a different
Unknown:island with her because I ran it or I helped run a class on one
Unknown:of the Channel Islands and she was there and so getting to
Unknown:watch her. I'm like, hey, look, we taught her everything she
Unknown:knows about islands.
Nellie Harden:Love it. Love it. That's so funny. And I yeah, I
Nellie Harden:do love the one that we just watched, which I really, really
Nellie Harden:love. we all we all did was a school of chocolate. So it's on
Nellie Harden:Netflix. And what I loved about it is it really was a teaching
Nellie Harden:show. And they are working and you know, somewhat competing
Nellie Harden:against one another. But there was never an elimination, they
Nellie Harden:all stayed. And by the end, there was two main people that
Nellie Harden:it was between, but everyone else was on their teams. And so
Nellie Harden:it really was this beautiful story arc kind of what you're
Nellie Harden:saying, of people that were working kind of against one
Nellie Harden:another. And then they started working for one another. And it
Nellie Harden:became this team atmosphere. And the guy that ran it was truly a
Nellie Harden:teacher. And he came around and helped everybody. It wasn't
Nellie Harden:like, you know, what are you doing? Okay, great. I'll leave
Nellie Harden:you alone for the next 16 hours. And and what they created was
Nellie Harden:beautiful. So anyway, out of all those shows, I really recommend
Nellie Harden:School of chocolate. It was very cool. It was very cool.
Unknown:I've been watching Project Runway a lot forever.
Unknown:And we've been having a lot of conversations lately about the
Unknown:feelings of getting kicked off. And but they're also having to
Unknown:collaborate and they're on a team, but they're not on a team.
Unknown:And it's mimicking. My son is doing this basketball thing
Unknown:right now. And he had a moment of confusion because they said
Unknown:partner up but then it was the defense and the offense. And
Unknown:he's like, but we're not partners. But we're partnered up
Unknown:and like, it was just this really I don't know, it was a
Unknown:cool couple of moments there. But I look I'm gonna look at
Unknown:this school chocolate school chocolate. Personally, I am a
Unknown:fan of every single mic. Sure, you know, the good place. The
Unknown:office parks and rec might be the best show ever. All of that,
Unknown:that level of show so my kids watch kind of alongside me for
Unknown:lots of it. But
Nellie Harden:yeah, yeah, we watch the good place. That was
Nellie Harden:that was a good one. i We all watch that as family but my kids
Nellie Harden:are older. So they they get a lot more than the little ones.
Nellie Harden:But oh, my goodness, well, thank you so much for being here. We
Nellie Harden:covered so much in this talk. But I think you know, as if
Nellie Harden:we're still laughing at the end, but covering you know how to
Nellie Harden:connect how to have that trust and truth with your kids. So you
Nellie Harden:can get them to a level that when it is their turn, it is
Nellie Harden:time to pass over the baton of take take over your own life
Nellie Harden:now. Right, they have the skills to be able to do that. And
Nellie Harden:that's what we're all about. And I know that's what you're all
Nellie Harden:about too. So thank you so much for being here.
Unknown:Thank you for having me. Of course, I just like I
Unknown:said, this is my my soapbox, I can talk about forever. And I
Unknown:also just wanted to mention that in addition to the book, which
Unknown:can sometimes feel intimidating for people, even though you
Unknown:really can just open it at any random place I think and get
Unknown:something I'm also doing this new thing where I'm doing 30
Unknown:minute zoom calls once a month. So if people go to my website,
Unknown:they can see the next one as a parents of teens to help their
Unknown:teens with their big feelings. But I'm rotating through age
Unknown:groups and topics we get to screen time one a parenting
Unknown:reset, and they are all donations based so that I just
Unknown:want to be able to offer that for people who can't come have
Unknown:one on one sessions or access me that
Nellie Harden:way. So Oh wonderful. Thank you so much.
Nellie Harden:And we will put your website down into the show notes for
Nellie Harden:this too. Absolutely. Well, okay listeners that we have given you
Nellie Harden:a lot to listen to today, a lot to process but also some things
Nellie Harden:that you can take literally and start using right away including
Nellie Harden:some great shows, to watch with your family. So We hope that you
Nellie Harden:have a wonderful rest of your day today. And remember, we're
Nellie Harden:always building and I hope that you are the architect of your
Nellie Harden:own home as we are building the beginning of someone else's life
Nellie Harden:with our kids. Have a wonderful day and we'll talk to you soon.
Nellie Harden:Thank you so much for listening today. And I hope you were able
Nellie Harden:to take something from our discussion that you can use to
Nellie Harden:build the foundation of selfless leadership in your own family.
Nellie Harden:If you are a parent with children 17 or younger, and
Nellie Harden:especially those around nine and up, I would love to extend an
Nellie Harden:invitation to you to the best club in town. The family
Nellie Harden:architects Club is a private club where intentional parents
Nellie Harden:go that want to love support, connect or reconnect, and really
Nellie Harden:truly help guide their kids and teach them how to self leave in
Nellie Harden:discipline and leadership. This is an online community and the
Nellie Harden:you are welcome to it. Parenting is a project and you are the
Nellie Harden:architect of this one. You plan you design and oversee the
Nellie Harden:construction of the beginning of someone else's life. And that's
Nellie Harden:what goes into these first 6570 days. And it will be the
Nellie Harden:foundation for the rest of their lives. So come join the club.
Nellie Harden:You can find your invitation on the front page of my website
Nellie Harden:Nelly hardin.com. That is N E ll ie H AR d e n.com. Thank you
Nellie Harden:again for being a part of this conversation today. And if
Nellie Harden:something really resonated with you, or if you have a question,
Nellie Harden:please don't hesitate to connect with me. You can find me on
Nellie Harden:Instagram at Nelly Hardin. And lastly, if you love the
Nellie Harden:information, please please leave a five star review and a comment
Nellie Harden:so more and more families can be impacted by harnessing the
Nellie Harden:strength of these ideas and tools in their own families. So
Nellie Harden:thank you so much. Happy building you guys and I'll see
