Protecting Kids Through A Child-Centered Divorce

Welcome to the D shift podcast, where we provide inspiration, motivation and education to help you transition from the challenges of divorce to discover the freedom and ability to live life on your own terms. Are you ready? Let's get this shift started. Hi, and welcome to another episode of the D shift podcast. And I'm really excited to have a another divorce coach on so I think this is fantastic. Because I think that people like to have options when they make choices. And Rosalind is somebody that I haven't had the opportunity to know over several Gosh, it's been several months now. Right, Rosalyn, we participate in a group together. And so I would recommend Rosalind as a divorce coach hands down. So I just want to get that right out there. We are here working collaboratively together, just like we want all our parents going through divorce to work collaboratively together. So Rosalind Secdacca is a divorce and co parenting coach. She is the founder of the child centered divorce network. And she is also an author of How do I tell the kids about divorce. And it's a it's a book that people actually co create with their families. Right, Rosalind Am I right about that? Wow. All right. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm excited to hear about that. And I'm so happy to see, I know that people that are listening can't see this. But Rosalind's Cat is making an appearance in the background. And mine will definitely fly across the screen too. So we're, we might have dueling cats on here today. But anyhow, Rosalind, tell us a little bit about yourself how you got into divorce coaching, and I know that you specifically work with families helping their kids through this. So tell us a little bit about that. Thank you.

So I was married for close to 20 years, and my marriage was was going sour for quite a while. And it took me a long time to get the nerve to finally realize that I needed to have a divorce, my son was starting to show signs of stress and tension. And he was getting headaches. And I knew this was not a healthy environment for him. And he was 11 at the time when I finally made the decision. And we worked out the divorce and co parenting arrangements, very mindful of trying to protect our son from emotional and psychological scars. And we really learned so much in the process. And after my son was a grown adult, one day when he was in his early 20s, he came to me out of the blue. And he said, you know, Mom, you and daddy did a really good job with the divorce. And I just want to thank you, because most of my friends whose parents divorced either hate their parents or very angry at them. And I think you guys were great. And I let out such a sigh of of relief because I was feeling such guilt and and did I do the right thing? And did I harm my son. So this was such an empowering moment for me. And it became the catalyst for my realizing that I had learned so much about divorcing, co parenting successfully and raising a child despite divorce. And I realized that there was a lot I had to share. And that's when I founded the child centered divorce network became a divorce and co parenting coach, and ultimately wrote several ebooks and eat courses and programs on all facets of divorcing with children and moving on in life with children even dating after divorce. I love that.

Yeah. That is That is amazing. And I, I think that, like there's a lot of great book smarts that people can have. But when you've actually experienced it when you've done the trial and error, and it sounds like yours was mostly successful, not a lot of trial and error. I think that's just fantastic. Because people can really relate to that because you are a person that that has lived through it. And what that must have been so amazing that day that your son came to you and just complimented you on managing this really difficult time in people's lives.

It was life changing for me and I was so appreciative that he brought it up out of the blue. And then I realized that there is really we made choices and learn things and made decisions that worked out to be very positive. And I also saw so many ways that we didn't do things that I've seen clients have sent were doing, where I could point out to them that there are different decisions that that you can make every stage of the process before during and long, long after divorce. And every decision you make will have different consequences and outcomes. And I tried to steer parents on the path to the most positive Have outcome for everyone in the family because divorce shouldn't be a battle. And it shouldn't be a win lose situation, when you have children, you have to think of divorce in a different way. And you have to be very mindful of the impact on the children and the impact on both parents in the immediate reality and then long, long, in the in the months and years ahead. Because as we all know, when you're a parent, if the situation doesn't end, at the end of the divorce, you're going to be co parenting for the rest of your life. And you want to be doing it in the best possible way for everyone. Unfortunately, there are better ways of doing it.

And, you know, I've got to say I taught the four hour mandatory court ordered co parenting program in Canada and in the United States for many, many, many years. And you know, when you were sitting in front of like, 4060 parents in there, and a lot of them were court ordered to attend together. And all of a sudden you start talking, they're like, oh, this doesn't apply to me, our baby's like six months old, or two months old. And I say, and how are you going to feel when you guys ruin your kid's Wedding by yelling and screaming at each other in the reception line? And all of a sudden, they look at each other? And they go, man? And then I said, and how are you going to do Christmases? And how are you? Do you want to? If this? Is your kids first Christmas this year? Do you want to ruin it by mom and dad fighting the first year of the divorce for this child? Because that is going to set the tone for Christmases for this kid's life. So Yes. So tell us a little bit about Well, first of all, let me ask you, when you went through your divorce, was there a mandatory training for parents and co parenting?

We didn't have one at that time there is in every state and every every city works differently. And I was living in Florida and and Florida certainly did have that. But um, for whatever reason, we didn't have to take that mandatory program. But I've since created co parenting programs that that are being used in in some states. So I understand exactly what you're talking about. And yes, they try the the state the bar, the legal system tries to get parents in the best possible mindset. But unfortunately, they're not really giving them the kind of information they need, which is what you were saying, to get the big picture to get the understanding of of the consequences of day to day life as you're moving past the divorce and moving on and raising your your child and being prepared with answers to give them and especially to remember that that there are mistakes to avoid, because that's what creates most of the problems. I firmly believe that it isn't divorce that scars, children. It's the way parents handle the divorce. And we'll have choices every step of the way.

Yes, yes. And you know, that's kind of that tough love stuff when you have to look at parents and say, and that's one of the reasons why quite frankly, I feel that, you know, most states now have the option to do an online version of the program. And it's, it doesn't have that personal impact because you don't hear other parents going yes, that destroyed me. That's the most powerful thing I ever got out of the trainings when people would put up their hand and say, This is so true because I lived through this. So one from say, one of the things that you just talked about was the mistakes that parents make. So I firmly believe that parents don't intentionally harm their children. Well, healthy parents, good parents. Effective parents don't intentionally harm their kids. But hurt people hurt people. So when they're feeling hurt about their divorce, they lash out and when they lash out at the other parent, that's that trickles down to the kids sometimes doesn't trickle down. Sometimes it floods down to the kids. So can you talk a little bit about from your expertise and and years of working with parents in this field? What do you think are some of the big mistakes that people make?

Thanks for asking because it's such an important question. Number one fighting around the kids in any way or shape is damaging to children. Children do not want to hear their parents battles. And that can be with the door closed in the other room or on the phone when you're when you're talking to your your sister or your or your parents and and you're venting about the other parent when you're fighting around the kids. It's it's extremely difficult for the children to be able to cope. They love both parents, and it scars them and it scars them for life. They're helpless to fix it. And I had clients who literally told me their kids had whistles, and the kids would blow the whistle to try to stop the fighting. Think of how how frustrating and helpless children are because they can't. And we as adults have to understand that if you have to fight and scream, then you have to do it when your children are away and not in ear, any any hearing realm. And also related to that is putting down disparaging bad mouthing either of the parent, either to to someone else, you know, to your children, to family members to friends, on the phone, in, in, in texting in any way where your kids may have access to it. Again, it hurts them, it wounds them. And it forces them to feel guilty for loving another parent that one parent is saying is not a good person, or, or it makes them feel sorry for the other parent and trying to parent that parent and make up for it. This is not your child's responsibility, whether they're five or 15, it is not their responsibility to be taken care of you. So those two areas are extremely damaging. And parents who avoid that and keep that in mind at all times are already giving their children a better start for the through the process of of divorce. Right? It's also important that you never use your children as confidence. If you need to vent, vent to a friend vent to a professional, don't talk to your kids and start telling them how sad you are about the breakup. It this wouldn't be happening if your mother wasn't an alcoholic, if your father didn't have an affair, all of those things. It's tempting. It's tempting to justify it's tempting to want to win their approval for you. But again, what does it do to your child's innocent psyche, your children can't fix any adult relationship problem if they could, life would be much simpler on the planet wouldn't they're helpless to fit we couldn't fix it ourselves. And so it isn't their place to bear the burden of becoming your confidant and hearing all the the issues that and challenges that you're trying to cope with. And what happens is it robs your children of their childhood. And once you rob your child of their childhood, they become little adults, they try to fix your marriage, they try to help you and pat you on the back and take care of you. They become the adult in the family. And they've lost the childhood innocence. Children have enough challenges being five and 10 and 15 years old and coping with with school and bullies and social media, and all these stresses that just happened in normal childhood life. To add another burden of turning them into being a little adult is unfair for them. And so you have to be really, it's tempting to do it. But it is very damaging for them. You also don't want to turn your children into messengers. It's also very easy to say, hey, tell daddy, then I'm going to be an hour late on Tuesday night, I'm going to pick you up at 730 instead of 630. Well, it's easy for kids to forget, regardless of their age, misunderstand misconstrue the message and sometimes kids will intentionally get the message wrong because they have opinions and judgments. And they sometimes they want to sabotage things. This they're angry, they're hurt. They're resentful. And so it isn't their place their wonderful online scheduling tools for for divorce, or at least using emails and texts and other technology. So that up to date information is provided between you two adult parents never put the burden on the children, right, we have to be very mindful of the pressure that we put are on our kids. And that includes never having to choose between parents, you don't want to ask your children who would you rather live with? They may have an opinion, but it's something that you don't want to burden them with. Because when they share that information, they're also saying I don't like the other parent, right? And that can put tremendous guilt and pressure on them. And again, psychologists are seeing kids who who are facing the consequences of all of these pressures that are put on them. And as a parent, you have a choice. There. There are wonderful support groups. There are wonderful therapists and coaches and clergy and other professionals who are available to talk to you and and help you Yes, talk to friends and family. Vent to friends and families punch pillows you need to protect yourself emotionally and You need to have support. But don't turn to your innocent children to put that pressure on them, and it'll make a much happier outcome for you and for them.

Yes, and I think and I'm going to just I'm just going to dovetail on a couple of things that that I think I see in mine. And let me know if you think this is accurate, Rosalyn, if it's if Eric, kind of goes along with what you've heard. First of all, I love the fact that you talked about kids 510, and 15. Because you're 18 year old, maybe your 20 year old, maybe your 40 year old is not interested in hearing all the bad stuff about the other parent. So it doesn't even matter if they're minor kids, its children in general, they don't come to you and tell you all their intimate details of every one of their relationships, they saw it there, there's boundaries that have to be in place between parents and kids. The other thing that the other thing that I think is really important is if the other parent does bad mouth you for lack of a better word and says to the kids, well, if you're you know, if your mom or your dad just had been a better person had been more attentive, had spent more time with me instead of at work. And then your kids come home and say, This is what mom or dad said about you, for goodness sakes, do not give them your side of the story, you're just doubling down on the problems that the child has to deal with. I tell people, the best thing is to say, You know what, I am sure that your mom or dad must have been really frustrated. And that's not information that I am comfortable about sharing with you. I just want you to know, your dad loves you, your mom loves you. We're always going to be your parents. And I'm not sharing the details of our divorce with you. Period. Kids don't like it. Kids want to hear your side, they want to know your site, but you're not helping them if you actually do it. So just giving them that answer. I'm sorry, I'm not going to share that. Because that's information that's stuck between you and you and the me and the other parent, it has nothing to do with you as the child, we both love you. And we're going to be here for you. What do you think about giving, giving kids that kind of message when they want to find out the nitty gritty details of the divorce?

totally correct. I agree with you 100% It it this is this is the way we we protect our children safeguard our children, and minimize the stress in their lives. They don't have to be bearing the burden any any more than than possible. We want to really minimize these challenges. And this is an information that they need to know and your answer is right on target.

Good. I'm glad we're in agreement on. Yes. So are there any other areas that you see are sort of commonly problematic for parents? In the let's let's look at a specifically those new to the co parenting responsibilities. Let's say the first six months of co parenting six months to a year, do you see some challenges that tend to come up over and over that maybe parents could think about ahead of time just to have a better understanding of how they're going to deal with those things?

Well, the most important thing for CO parents to learn is communication skills, how are we going to talk to one another, so we can smoothie co parenting relationship. And so we parents have to have the mindset that this is the business or a business relationship. It's no longer a romantic relationship. But we're going to be in the business of raising these children that we both love for the rest of our lives. And the children are going to age and move through different stages of life and as we are and we want to be as collaborative and cooperative with one another as possible. So learning to be flexible learning to be cooperative is very, very important. Most people have a parenting plan after their divorce and it says this is going to happen in this time. And the holidays are this and this is what's going to happen medically and education wise and all of those details. But we need to be very flexible parenting plans are an overview of something that doesn't predict accidents and and and injuries and being laid for work and all the realities that happen on a day to day basis. So I really encourage parents to do favors for one another because when when your co parent says Listen, next weekend, I'm not going to be available. I thought I was but I can't do it. Can we swap these dates? Instead of being a stickler and saying, Well, that's not my date. If you do a favor and say sure we'll move this around. They are going to be able to be much more likely to be receptive to doing the same thing for you and you are going to need one another. You also want to be able to trust one another. I always felt that when my son was with his father, he was with the best person who was going to be taking care Have him other than me. And so that gave me the freedom to go out and do things to socialize and date and to start the other facets of my life, knowing he was in good hands. So you want to create as cooperative a relationship with your co parent as possible, which gives both of you more freedom, and gives your child the freedom to just go on with their childhood, which is the most important thing, friends in school and growing up without worrying about their parents. So that's very significant for them. And you, you want to learn ways to say things, find, find ways of, of catching each other doing something, right, you and your co parent, and say, Hey, thanks, thanks for picking Johnny up an hour earlier, I really appreciate it. Thanks for remembering to pick up the milk, the smallest little things can be can be a step towards more and more cooperation between the two of you. And if you do find ways of saying thank you or acknowledging your co parent, or saying, Hey, that was that was great, I appreciate your doing that. They're more likely to start picking up on that themselves. And and you starting to treat each other in a more civil way. And remember that when you don't, you're embarrassing your kids, You're humiliating your kid, you're creating problems for your kids, you're creating issues that children just don't need. And you and I both know, parents who can't be in the same room for graduation for a wedding for the most important occasions in life. Because these parents are too immature, and are too self centered to realize the consequences for their kids. You don't want to be doing that to your children. If you really love them. You want to give them the peace of not having to parent you.

Yeah. Oh, I love that you and I, you and I could we could do this in and just record it because we're both the same what each other would say. It's, I knew that would be the case. Yeah, but and the thing, the thing that I think is is really important is that this is not external stuff. You are as the parent, you are responsible for your reactions and your choices. In any given circumstance. The other parent does not control you, they do not make you lash out or yell or scream or badmouth or curse. Or, like you say, you know, treat the co parenting degree, the co parenting arrangement, like it's some kind of binding legal document that cannot it is the default, if you want to agree on something else. And you both agree, you can be flexible. And I think that's the biggest powerful tool, and I loved your idea of giving the other person lots of credit, lots of things. And if you say yes to what they want, someday, like you said, you're gonna want to have a couple of extra hours or maybe switch things out. And you know what they're gonna say, okay, yeah, I'll do that. But if you start out the relationship with nope, not doing it, then that's what you can expect when you want some things on your site to so they'll say, yeah, so I thought we can talk about this for much longer. I think we're just about out of time. So Rosalyn, we have we literally have covered a ton of information here today. So and we only focused on two little topics. So well, we may have to have another one of these to talk about some other issues that got you got me thinking about when we were going through here. So what what would you like to have people take away from this conversation, that's kind of the one big aha moment that you would like people to have?

Yes. And that is to remember that you are role models for your children. They are learning how to deal with conflict and challenges by watching you. And you can be doing it in a mature responsible way as a parent, or you could be showing them the ugly side of of parenting. And that's what they're going to take away. And that's going to be in the end, one day your children are going to come to you and say thank you or not for the way you handle that, that divorce. So keep that in mind today. What do you want your children to say about how you handle the divorce when they're grown adults? That'll kind of keep you in the right line?

I hope so. And you have been kind enough to provide, excuse me, you've been kind enough to provide everybody with a copy of one of your ebooks I believe. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Yes, I have a free ebook on post divorce parenting success strategies for getting it right. And it's right on the homepage of my website child centered divorce.com. So if you go to child sent Your divorce.com Right at the top of the homepage, you could just enter your email address for instant download of that ebook. And I have a lot of other resources and coaching services all listed on the same website.

Fantastic. So is that the best way for people to get ahold of you? Rosalind is just to go through your website.

Yes or Rosalind at child centered divorce.com. That's aro S A L I N D at child centered divorce that comm

thank you so much. It has been my pleasure to speak with you today. And I know this has been a lot of really valuable information. And for everybody that's listening, all this all of Rosalind information, all of our contact, how you can get ahold of her on different social medias, everything else will be down underneath in the show notes. Thanks so much, Rosalyn.

Thank you. It's a pleasure talking with you.