Choosing What You Really Want with Jude Ella

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back. You've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request, if any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the end Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it. Hi, everyone. And welcome this week's guest. Dude, Ella, dude, how are you?

Unknown Speaker 1:05

Good. How are you?

Ian Hawkins 1:07

Going? Well, thank you. Now was a few different elements to your story. And we were just discussing before we came on where we'd start, I think probably the most logical places if we just go chronologically, and we'll see where it leads. But there's some big stuff here for us. Yeah, definitely much looking forward to this. So you're a few different moments that have that have been the big change in your life. And you mentioned 2015, you went through an Well, I'm gonna use the word episode, but you can give us more clarity on that episode of psychosis. So two questions, like what actually was the catalyst for that unfolding? And then what what that was like, like, what was that experience? How did it impact you all of those things?

Unknown Speaker 1:58

I really feel like everything in that year was probably pointing in the direction of this happening at the end of the year. But I, I guess, the longest story is I had been working with a director, and for many, many years, and I always sort of get got a sense that there was something different about him. And, and I said to myself, I wonder what that is? And yeah, you just don't even ask these questions. And yeah, it's something about his energy, which I just had no understanding of, but it was just different to everyone else. And I, I ended up going to a concert of one of my favorite bands, and I was offered MDMA, and I don't take drugs. So that's what was kind of surreal about this experience. And it was particularly surreal, because I was reading a Sam Harris book. And in on the very, I had gotten to the first page, and on the very first page, he says he was offered MDMA, at a concert. And he, he, it opened up this experience of ecstasy and this feeling of bliss that he'd never felt before and connection to everything. And I just had this God moment, as someone that was essentially maybe agnostic, potentially atheist for my whole 20s. And I just was offered it. And I had this God moment of the book, and this feeling of God, like, I mean, it was it was very, this feeling of magic or something like that, that I hadn't had since I was probably a kid. Yeah. And I took it and it took me on a wild ride that lasted one month. I mean, I it started just with those feelings of ecstasy and just being I felt like the fog in my brain had cleared, and I kept saying, The fog is lifted, the fog is lifted, and I could feel sort of golden energy, and I could feel the crowd and I could feel the band. And it just felt, you know, MDMA, ecstasy, and then, um, I just was on this wild ride. I was watching a lot of Bashar at the time. And Alan Watts, let's say, Alan Watts, and I was just fading it. So without understanding what we all now understand the importance of grounding, had none of that, unfortunately. But I had all of the app and the app and the app and the app. And so I was frantically going to the gym and doing crazy workouts and feeling this big energy and feeling excited for I just felt like I was want to I was kind of being indicated, or I was told in, in that MDMA experience, I had this image of me speaking on stage and that image said, You're here to be a leader, and something in my heart and my body said, Oh my god, gie you're right, I wasn't I had been a follower. My whole career. And I just My body was saying, No, you're a leader. And I followed that really hard. That feeling of all this is so exciting. And we're at a massive change point, this is massive vibrational upgrade happening. And I'm so excited to be one of the first and the feeling I had was that in five years, the masses would, would also be going through their own and but unfortunately, as is part of the process, I had, three weeks after that experience, I had kind of all my trauma come up from when I was a kid, and I was raised religious and I went to hospital, I went through a psychosis because it was really playing out a lot of religious fears, which is terrifying. And it took me a while to work through, I moved to the Blue Mountains to heal. And I just healed. And through that came, the Atlas came these new ideas that were coming in dreams. And the Atlas actually came as a dream, the name. And this, you know, my old collaborator came with this multi dimensional book and said, This is what you're creating. It's called the atlas of consciousness. And it was this 3d book. And it kind of gave grounding to all these new ideas that were coming into my life, new feelings that were kind of contributing to what a podcast would be, and books and things like that. So that's, that's how that psychosis began to change into creativity, essentially,

Ian Hawkins 6:39

yeah, well, so you see, you go through this spiritual experience, that's for one of better terms. And it opens your mind up to this whole other way, this whole possibility. I'm really curious, as I mentioned before, come on, dude, I allow the, the sensations I get in my body around different things. And, and, you know, we talk about grief at that point, and maybe still sometimes now, what was the disconnect between what this calling was to be a leader and what your logical brain was telling you about your ability to do that?

Unknown Speaker 7:20

Yeah, I would just say that I was just probably so young in my spirit, and that I have always been capable of receiving massive visions. But the embodiment process has its own journey. So I would just say that I received that vision of being a leader, but I had to face you know, it's still seven years in the hole, something I'm still going. I just had to face so much fear, obviously, not trauma rising. And years and years ago, I was processing fear, I was, I was very, I was probably very small, that in my actual physical state in terms of how I related to the world there was, I was afraid of everything, and I manifested a lot of that.

Ian Hawkins 8:15

Hoping for listeners are going to understand the different language you're using. But just to just to bring some context in. You mentioned embodiment. To me, the best way to explain that would be we go through these different shifts, and how do we actually integrate it into our, into our whole being physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually? If we look at the current moment in time, like how many people are really grappling with that, that whole embodiment piece because their body is literally going through all of these craziness and all these different symptoms? So at the time, how did you? Well, maybe you didn't have any of the skills but if you look back at those times, like what what? How do you make sense of that time? And what was going on from that perspective of trying to embody all of this newfound knowledge and energy?

Unknown Speaker 9:09

Yeah, the information came in hard and so then my body got dealt a blow and I think a car crash was probably the best analogy for how it felt internally. I car car, a car crashes just constantly how it felt for a month or going through the heavy levels, which is any great physical illness, isn't it? You have the really intense period, which is what I went through and I had no tools whatsoever, but I had, the only thing I had, which was my saving grace was that when I was in my early 20s, I decided I wanted to master Master cinematography I wanted to be I just made a choice. When I was at university I just went I just want to master this craft. And so then I I read every book under the sun, I shot everything I could possibly shoot. It was just a feeling I had in myself and my body for lack of a better phrase. And I came to understand the relationship between vision and grounding, which actually, I didn't have those words back then. But that I would receive a feeling and a vision or a picture in my mind of how I wanted the shot to look. And it always was well beyond, you know, what was it was my own unique vision, it wasn't standard for the industry, I wasn't, I wasn't even referencing the industry. I just was referencing this vision. And I believed in it. I think that's the one thing I still to this day, I don't know how that happened. But I never questioned my ability as a filmmaker, and as a cinematographer, I just never did. And it allowed me to pull on resources to put together teams with grace, and to bring productions together really quickly, and to constantly believe through all the challenges which are weather, which everything, you know, budget, I just kept believing. And I would ground these these pictures through the practical daily actions. So I was in hospital, and that came back where I had this very strong feeling the whole time that I was going to write a podcast, if I ever came out of this alive, this was going to be the most phenomenal, groundbreaking, you know, podcast about awakening. And so I was creating diary entries every day. And for as much input as was coming in from fear, I would have this tiny voice in the back of my head that was just saying, just write down your experiences, write down all of them. And so I had this, I ended up throwing the book away. But I did have a diary in the hospital that has crazy scribblings all through it. And then sometimes, occasionally, you know, logical sentences about what I went through. And I got to a point where I just went, I just had this this thought about, well, what if this is actually mastery, because I had sort of watched enough Bashar that I just went, Well, maybe this is actually the best case scenario is this is all fear coming up. And I have to master my mind. And that is what was the indication, I just decided that I would throw every possible thing at it, just like I had mastered my film work. And I was going to master my mind. And as I started listing every fear that could possibly have gotten me into, into, yeah, that into jail, I called it, you know, into into the mental health care ward. And I was, and I worked my way through it. And that continued and, and sort of, I just kept having, you know, I still kept it's a car crash, right. So I still kept having stuff come to me even after I left, that was testing me and I would be crying and a complete mess, like completely distraught for four weeks. But the beauty of the process of healing is it just gradually the tide started to go out. And I had met at headspace meditation come to me, pretty much a week or soon after the hospital. And I just said, I'm never, ever going to lose my mind ever again. I just had no concept of how powerful it is. It's the most powerful thing. And so I've never missed a day of meditation since then, seven years now. And my whole life has changed completely in every way and continues to. But yeah, that's that's, that was embodiment. All I had was my vision. I had a sense of direction through my own self talk, I suppose. And my own choices and my own sense of purpose. And I would write, you know, I would write every day or every few days, just feeling the strong feeling that you know, that was the that was my coach. That was the only thing that got me through that maybe there's a higher purpose to me going through this. Yeah. And I have to write it down. And I have to believe in the higher purpose, not the day to day terrors that were coming to me.

You said the phrases you said if I came out of this alive, so was it a day to day thoughts of like I'm dying or

Yeah, it was horrible. Yeah, it was definitely that experience. Worse. I thought, if you're religious, you should like take it where you think there'll be taken you know, just scary stuff like scary. What you're taught, you know, what your toy is, is really traumatizing. You're, you're talking about terrifying things and you're taught to focus on that you're taught to focus on those things. And so the work is literally facing, you know, the terrifying things as they would say, Oh, this is, you know, this is this, for example, on the TV, it'd be nice, it'd be, you know, I'd see fire and things like this. And I would, it would trigger me, and it would bring up all this fear of of what was going to happen. And so

that religious sort of fire vision.

Yeah, that's right. So I have, because I have such a big vision, that's my gift. It's just as easy for me to embody the fear as it is to embody the vision and my work. And my work, always, but particularly back then the hardest work I did back then was to focus like there was no tomorrow, that there was a higher purpose. And I could, it was just my fear, it wasn't reality. And as I kept choosing that it was just a fear, it was just a fear, I'd watch reality, take the tide out, and things would change. And I'd have more positive influences come in, I had a healing modality that every time I was triggered, after that, I would go straight to that modality. And I would, I would let you know, we'd feel the fear and we'd release it. And it changed my life. And then obviously, after nine months, I started meeting so many others that had gone through what I had gone through, because I was alone, probably in this experience for nine months. But then after that, I met a community in Sydney, there's the authentic living center, and, and I met some other close friends that introduced me to a massive spiritual community. And they changed my life, they became, you know, I went to one party, and I met five people that changed the course of my life over the next however many years, which is how it works. But I did have to spend a lot of time or not completely alone, I had a partner. And we were walking the journey in some way. But I together, but I kind of was the one that had gone through this big trauma. And yeah, and there were other people that gave me as always little snippets along the path. People who had taken ayahuasca and things like that, that said, I've gone on this journey, and you're just on a variation of that, you know, that I had to hold on to that is the only thing. It has to be that you know, it can't be something else. Yeah.

Well, this is great, because so many people wouldn't be going through similar things. Yes, two years is certainly brought out that those sorts of experiences.

Yeah. It's pulling. Yeah, it's just, it's just powerful, new energy, and then it's going to push up your drama.

Okay, so I, I'll come back to the where you're at. But I'd love for you to explain for people, particularly those who are at this is all new to them, right? That the concept of consciousness and energy. And so can you explain energy for someone who's who's suddenly been exposed to all of like, they probably recognize that showing up physically, like you talked about psychosis, and mentally? How do you explain that in a way that they will understand through the lens of what they're experiencing in the moment? What what is this sudden bombardment of this New Energy? How do you make sense of that?

I actually read a lot of physics when I was at university for some reason, I was deeply fascinated. And it's quite amazing. But science has so much to teach us. I mean, science and spirituality at the highest level meet in the middle there the same thing. And it's just an mastery, essentially, is meeting spirituality at the highest level. How do I explain energy? Well, it's just positive and negative. And in a very basic scientific sense, so you can bring it back to that very science base positive and negative. What's happening on the planet is we're going through a lot of positive energy flow, a massive at this point, humongous levels of positive energy. It's not something to fear. But what we do fear is we fear ourselves we are that is we fear parts of our childhood, we fear experiences, we may have gone through that, you know, that essentially have been banked up as trauma. So we read it as negative energy. So the work that each of us has, is to be present in our moment with whatever we feel like our highest excitement is and what is either in the way you have to say, there may be something that's in the way of that, and being present with that experience. And I gave you a very visceral experience, you know, my experience, I feel is quite visual in that my highest excitement, at the time of my awakening was this feeling of becoming a leader and supporting and leading the this feeling of, you know, a big change a big positive change for the world. And, and I could feel that much energy. And then I had the terrifying trauma that I, you know, from my childhood come up, which was, which said, how can you be living in this unconditional love world when the reality of the world is actually terrifying. And it's actually, you know, it's, it's God or not God. And that's what I had to face I had to choose, I had to choose unconditional love, which was a totally new belief system that I had no concept of other than being introduced to it over those past few months, versus what I was raised on my entire upbringing. So it's not easy work. No one is on the path is gonna say it's any way remotely near easy. But it is your choice, ultimately. And that's what I that's where my empowerment came in every minute. And I know everyone I've met on this path and say the same thing that you just got to keep coming back to, it's your choice, and you're a painter. So you can choose to paint with love. Or you can choose to paint with fear. And I just mean, saying, looking at the situation, you're in and saying, What am I choosing what I really want. And you have to sometimes think really deeply and you have to get really introspective, and you really have to analyze it. What feels exciting, and why am I scared in this moment? And why am I scared? And and that's when you can turn to healing, you can turn to yoga and meditation and exercise. But But really, I think, I think the most spiritual practices being present every single day, whether you're at work, whether you're, you know, you're with friends, that's where it all is. It's just in the everyday detail.

Hmm. The part of that that stood out the most was that how many of us and I'd say probably just about everyone is in the western world anyway, experiences, that conditional love. It's almost transactional, this idea that everything's, yeah, everything's got a different reaction that that has us then going forth into our future relationships, whether that's just friends or family or someone closer, always looking for these conditions to be met. And to me, it's, it's easy to say, not as easy to do, but the more we can set that intention of bringing more of that unconditional side that that's where we get the biggest shifts personally, and then also in the dynamics of our relationships as well.

I agree.

I'm curious about this healing modality. I also wanted to ask you about the meditation as well. But yeah, so what what was the did one come before the other did the meditation or you said Yeah, headspace. So that was the introduction

to headspace. Yeah. And I needed headspace. I loved that I was dealing with this intense fear base complex, so complex. There's so many rules and what am I supposed to follow? And then and headspace is the antidote, headspace gives you these little pictures and it is just so simple. And when you're in a crisis, whatever that be, it was physical or emotional, mental, you just need simplicity. He just has these beautiful animations that Andy who voiced it. He, he just would talk through these clouds, you know, it's just clouds passing and come back to your breath and 20 minutes of that every day and it was just it it made me cry. Because I just needed simplicity. I just needed the most basic advice that said, your loved you can be present don't worry about all that scary, crazy stuff. Put it down and just let the clouds pass you know, that's what people in crisis really need. And yeah, so it was it was incredible. And it's such a step by step thing you just did. You have a program so you do 90 days and I just Yeah,

beautiful. And for those who maybe have not had the best success with meditation or they're scared of it or worried that one of my be there is absolutely the right tool out there because there's so many of them out there that will help you to to navigate and It's like as its people make it out to be worse than it is in terms of getting themselves into that habit. But really what you said, if you just come back to breath, even better if you've got someone to be able to then talk you through some visuals, then yeah, it's it's a real, like game changer in terms of all those things. You mentioned everything.

Yeah. The beginning

brings us back to Silfra.

It's, um, I mean, I still use guided meditations every day. So I would just recommend guided meditations, you know, and you can find a lot on YouTube, you can just type in guided meditation, you know, breakfast, and then it'll come up with a breakfast meditation that you can do every morning. You know, that? Yeah, just look for simple I think I tried meditation years before I was trying is really complicated. They didn't help me, meditations. But I realized what actually helped at that time, when you're a beginner, is you really have to start with basics. So that's why things like headspace are great, where it's just a voice. It's guided 20 minutes or 10 minutes or five minutes. You just need a simple Yeah, and then build upon it, you know, over many years, but try lots of there's lots of you can go into meditation mastery, like anything else. But the basics. That's all you need. Just yeah. Voice and time.

Yeah, well said, because it is it's, if you're starting out, you're a beginner. So treat it like you're just learning to walk and just be easy with yourself. Definitely not to be perfect at enlightenment or whatever that means. It's your first dragon. Yeah. So did that clarity then lead you into this healing modality? Or was that another one of those things that showed up? Synchronicity, seeing first I was

just on YouTube, just being on YouTube. And there was this lady. So her name is Melanie Tania Evans. And the program at the time was called knob and I think she still has that same program. And it's called narcissistic abuse recovery program. And it's just a downloadable program where you have 10 meditations. And she has evolutions on that other other packages. But I just knew I had to do it. And it also felt like it was there was this little feeling, I was very alone. Like, at this time, I just, I didn't even I had my partner who had gone through versions of what I'd gone through. I mean, she hadn't gone through the, she just hadn't gone through the trauma though. Even though we were both seemingly walking this awakening together. I went through this really intense fear that she didn't go through. And so I felt very alone in that I was, yeah, so I, this modality came in and I just was really drawn to it that I just, I just knew I had to do this. That's all I knew. And I came to it because the lady that created it, Melanie Tania Evans did a vet, she was doing a video series, and it just came up as a recommendation on my, on my front page that about toxic having toxic people in your life and the impact on your emotions. And I think I didn't know much about that concept. But some part of me thought, Well, this has to be it, you know, I, I've been exposed to a lot of toxicity. And so perhaps my emotions are all embroiled in that. And that was the healthiest way I could look at it. You know, I could, I could say that actually, maybe all of us have experienced a lot of toxic emotions. And we created really complicated systems and structures based around toxic emotions are not healthy emotions. And so that's what started my process. And yeah, every time I felt a trigger, from that point on, I would do these meditations and visualizations that would ask your body and that was so crazy to me, I never come anything like across anything like that, where you she said, Now ask your body. What is this? How old are you? And what is this trauma? Or what is this resistance about? And I would write whatever I felt was in my head. And it was this most profound wisdom that shocked me. And I was just in you know, I was in that world for deeply in that world by myself just writing these things that my body was giving me and it was always on point. It said when you're one years old, when you were one year old, you experienced this worldview, which made you believe this fear was exactly correct. And I just I just started that process of and I still do that. I still have those 10 meditations and I still do them every few days when I need to, but Back then I needed to do them constantly, obviously and sometimes I do four hours a day. And but that's how I got through. And that's how the psychosis unfold. You know, I'm it undid itself and it became healthy emotions, it stopped being all fear and attack. And I started having new experiences come in, like I had a film shoot. And that was in Alice Springs, I was exposed to the indigenous culture and I was my the universe was asking me to come back to my heart. And everything was about my heart and these experiences of being on the marshlands and I saw a big love high in the sky, it was very moving, and it made me cry, you know, just being moments that returned me to essentially it was this feeling of, I love you, you are valued. I hear you, you know, I have like, I don't want to cry now of thinking about those experiences. But I, I was constantly being brought back to what I love personally and that I was returning to this universe different from the one I was raised in where it was uniquely tailored to me. Uniquely, it was recognizing that I was actually special, and we're all special.

It's it's one of those things, it's been cliched, but it's It's spot on, and what I'm sort of struck by there is is that returning to that sense of love is like you finding the truth of who you are, which to me is the kind of the pivotal part of the awakening process. It's like, oh, okay, once I start stripping back some of this other crap this I'm actually there's some good stuff going on on the

know you your natural self. It's it's very special. It's like the finest masterpiece you could ever

Yeah. Do you mind if I just navigate there to some of that, that those that younger stuff, because when sharpen, you talked about the narcissistic abuse, like I felt like it was, it was beyond anger. It was like a, like a rage. So was that something you experience in the family home?

I probably I think I'll always not be very specific with this, though. There's definitely a reference, like route because I in the Atlas, I talk about all this stuff, but but I really will say is that I've experienced a lot of violence in my life. And I've had to undo that. And yeah, and that's been my work. And I yeah, I don't want to say specifically, it's because in some ways, it's it's kind of, I was also bullied in high school and primary school. So there's a it's a toxic world. But yeah, I have experienced a lot of violence. Yeah.

So rather than going into the specifics, which I preferred, that that's not how we would do it anyway. But yeah. How how that shaped you because you talked about the religious aspects, which are similar experience for me as like, you get to a point where you go, the fear, and the and the control just doesn't compute. It's like this. Like, that can't be the same same God that that you talked about and from other contexts, but it does it create all these things that that as a as a young kid, like,

just terrifying. Terrifying.

Yeah, it is. It's like, what what if I make a mistake? What if I do? Correct? Yeah. And then throw on top of that, like you said, yeah, that violence will the fee that must have been building up to that point of psychosis must have been just massive. It was

huge. Yeah, you just tie all of the fear together, and that's what you get, but it's helpful. A lot of people experienced psychosis and there's no there's, it's helpful when you go to shamanic cultures because they just say, Oh, this is an awakening, and they have no fear about it. And they know it's about allowing the energy so that's grounding, allowing the energy to just pass through putting your feet on the ground. Trusting in the support of the people are, you know, loving people around you. Shamans are epic, that reason but I went through essentially a shamanic experience without anything, which is ridiculous. And in the West, which is ridiculous, but I think that going through it in the West, and they're going through the medical system, and what a lot of people have gone through mental health crisis is have had to go through is I'm looking at the way I'm able to talk now and look at the information I'm bringing in In about the holes in the West, in our understanding, in that we do, I watched that we do believe we have all this understanding. It's there's a massive gap. And ancient cultures have that understanding. And they've always had that understanding. So yeah, I mean, what was gonna I was gonna say this one thing I had this one experience when I was kind of in that recovery period. And I had sort of been part of a massive fight, which triggered really scary fears. I went straight to the beach, when I was crying, and I was crying. And I just went on this massive rant to God, I didn't know what I was talking to. But I was just saying, I don't know what you want of me. How could I know what happens after death? Why do you want me to? You know, I was just everything as a real human being why? How could I possibly be perfect at all times? That's not fair. That's not possible. And I just got mad, I think I got mad. And I, you know, I'm trying my best. And I meditated for a bit. And then I was walking past the shop front. And the shop front said, give up everything for love, or something like that. There was a sign, gamble everything for love. That's what it said. Yeah, well, and it just hit me in that moment where it was just another one of those. You are heard and, yeah, you're heard. And that's all you know, you're heard and have the courage to, to terrifyingly step through those fears. Let them go and trust that on the other side is unconditional love, trust that it's very hard. I mean, it's, it's you just do it. And it's not because you're not scared, but you just have no choice but to Well, I can only believe that things are more than this. You know, that's what I did.

I love that. I think that everyone has a moment like that, where a sign turns up, that is just too perfect for words. It's what you do with that sign. You'll be shown more signs, but it makes it much easier. If you act on the first one. Right? You actually then take that with you and go okay, well, as you said, there's there still will be an element of fear. And this there will be challenges, but I can't get back to the way that I was living. So I need to at least give this a try. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So when we first met, you went by the name of Allah. So tell us about that massive shift in your life, and how that all unfolded for you.

Yeah, so I call it the second awakening. And I was, as I was mentioning, before, I, to me, this is actually grief scented, whereas I feel like the psychosis is judgment centered, you know, a lot of those belief structures are around, it's about dealing with self judgment and self worth. grief. Grief is paralysis in some ways, because so for 10 years, I also, underneath all of that, as it does unpacking the onion layers, many years later, when we went through COVID. I, my COVID was so 2020 My COVID was every single day, discovering, you know, through meditation, just having this inflow of your boy. And the terror of that more terror is of having to you know, it was something I'd run away from for a very long time, and I was planning on running away from it until I died. And then COVID I didn't have a chance to run away from it and and it wouldn't let me run away I had a trans men come into my life, so female to male and he became my housemate. And so every day I was faced with the information just as actually practical information as well as the spiritual feeling of you know, this is you, you are a boy and I spent a lot of time with my Oh, we all did during COVID But I go down to the beach and I just have these really hot opening experiences around feeling what that if I just let myself tune into that and believe I was a boy, you know, and it's it's an extraordinary challenge. Another way that that you know, when you're raised as a girl, it's yeah, it's it's just so confusing. To put it lightly. It's, it's just extraordinarily confusing to arrive at that feeling. But I I chose, you know, I just knew it's what it was. I started right During this book in the same way, as the podcast came through it, the way that I navigated my way through all the confusing emotions was daily. And that's why it felt like a 2.0, or a sequel to the, to the first awakening and that I was writing passages every day. And in the passages, I felt this new world light the feeling of what COVID was kind of, or what depression creates the blanket for it's, it's like I say, it's like the soil. So depression and grief, it's like the soil and that's what I was going through and the new plants, you need to have that period where it's just turned over. And it's mulch and and the new plants can come through that old soil, and you've got these bright, new, beautiful sprouts. And that's what what becoming a boy was for me and I chose to I'd started the hormones. And that began really mother nother level of unraveling, which was socio cultural, not just physical, I went through all the physical changes, discovering, emotionally and physically how very different men are to women. I mean, you just don't know. But now I can speak. I feel like I can speak both languages. Say it's like translation I can, I can translate. But it's very different. And I had to go through what, what's it called what a lot of men go through in the ancient cultures, which men the rite of passage, and I moved to a farm and I was by myself, and I just knew I had to be to let my emotions play themselves out. And in some ways, that's also missing from the west. And so you have a lot of men and boys. Anyone that identifies not just obviously, sis men born as in that body, but anyone that identifies that way, you've got, you've got a massive, you know, they just have nowhere to go, there's no where to anchor. And so I experienced that, and, and I just, I just need somewhere inside, I knew what it was to be a man. So I got myself, I pulled myself through it, in that knowing of, you know, your body knows this, what I didn't know how to do is how to be a woman. And actually, yeah, my whole 20s I was really pushed in that direction. And I tried so many things to try and be that. And my body, by the end of my 20s was hitting hard rejection and just I was going through panic attacks, I was having huge depression. I mean, that's one of the main things that kind of goes with being trans. So yeah, 10 years of depression. And the the, for me, the cure to depression, I learned was was action, but action in the direction of your truth. And so that's when I started the, the hormones and I felt viscerally internally, instantly a total change from depression to just gratefulness and excitement to be alive. And yeah, and obviously, like the first awakening didn't stay like that I had to go through all these fears. But even for all the fears, I always felt, but I would rather I am a boy. So I'd rather be you know, going through this fear. That's a very male fear, then, then not be who I am. And yeah, and at this point where it's grounded, and I told you this beautiful new things coming in. Our God, it feels so good. I'd say it's what I've wanted my whole life. Yeah, I've had to get there a really long and windy way. Yeah. And

without making a comparison. For people like listening, thinking about their own journey. No matter how much unraveling needs to happen, it can still happen. Like the things that you've talked about. This is beyond what most people could probably even comprehend. But it's still there is that possibility to come out the other side, if you keep just being open and trusting and find your truth, it doesn't matter what it looks like to anyone else or seems like to anyone else. It's finding your own truth. And no matter what that looks like to the individual, you're going to get resistance, particularly for the people closest to you. Right. So what what was the biggest? Well, I don't know, did you still have contacted your family with your family at this point? And if so, what like what sort of reaction did you get from going through this transition?

Yeah, one of my greatest fears was about my family and to be fair, that all manifested yeah, I've I one of the kind of hard truths about being walking them very male journey. I think that a lot of men go through but that is unsaid is that I just say being, being a man is about truth and space. So if you want to understand why they do certain things, it's just that simple. It's that they're, they're like truth, you know, truth pillars, and, and they need space for that truth. And hence wise sort of those coming of ages are related to going out into the wilderness and just finding yourself through like, kind of barraging against trees, breaking out rocks and dryness, our life, I feel like I went through a socio cultural version of that, where, you know, I, as I found my truth, and I went out into the world that yeah, there's a, it was, it's just a lot of backlash, you know, and, and I felt so sensitive, I feel like the thing that so unsaid in and I can bring as a gift in being trans is that men are just as delicate flowers as women, and there's nothing but like a trans person or trans man to give you that proof. This person was treated as a woman for this many years. And then suddenly, by way of appearance, they get to be treated complete with with harshness, they're part of a totally different world, it's a male to male energy, it's much more brutal, it's really hard to get used to, even for, for all the work we're all doing to soften, you know, the man's world. It's still there, it's still pressing. And it's, it's this fear. And what I started experiencing was, so I went from, I went from not being heard as a woman. So a lot of trans people will express this experience to the opposite. I had a trans girl in my life, and she said, be prepared for people to listen to you. And I just couldn't possibly, because I had spent 10 years working so hard, double time, as a woman, you know, you have to work so much harder to be heard. And then I came into this experience. And when I did start to pass, and I just recognized, there were moments that kind of hit me that this is it, this is what she's talking about. People will listening to wow, it's horrible. But this is what has to be the light has to be shone on it. And the other thing is that. But the other side of it is that you're suddenly responsible for everyone else's things. So they will throw everything at you that you have a lot of negativity thrown at you. I'm just as sensitive as I was as a girl, and I had to learn what was me and what was what was them. And I think that for a long time. I thought it was all me, I thought, well, this is all happening there. You know, people are treating me this way. Because I've done something wrong, I really have done something wrong, I've caused them pain, I feel bad about myself. And and I had to go through all these different scenarios of a lot of hatred coming my way, where I just analyzed everyone, and I just went, but did I do something wrong in this? And I would go well, you did do this wrong, you know that? That wasn't correct. But then the level, they came back at you, you know, for this little thing that you did. You know, I learned what men go through. And I felt shocked. You know, I felt experientially shocked. And I own up to even as a woman in my 20s You know, you kind of jokingly throw everything at men because there's no cultural, you know, okayness that it's like almost a cultural okayness that men can just take it but what is not culturally known as they're just as sensitive as women just as delicate, exactly the same. You know, and, and if it was okay, as if that would have been okay to chuck all that stuff. But me as a woman, no one would have ever done that. Yeah, so I've gone through that unique experience. So I'm the same soul, but I'm treated totally differently.

The point you made there around like, they're just meant to take all that on that that, to me, that's that plays into what you said about space. And it's been true for my own journey has been true for plenty of men that I've worked with is as there's not a space where they can be who they want to be and who they are. And there's on the one hand, we're going men need to be more vulnerable and they need to talk. But then when they do, their experience is usually not a pleasant one. Yeah. And so it's like, well, we can't have it both ways. We actually need to be able to create a space and it's really fascinating to hear you talk through this this unique lens because Yeah, generally, either 60 is not equipped with the actual language and the, the method and the process and the connection to be able to see things from the other perspective.

One of my collaborators, he said, um, you know, I could be like a therapist for men, basically. But actually what came to me as a part of my mission I had, last year, when I was going through the really intense transition, I had this feeling in my heart, say that I'm here to free men, and but to free men from themselves. And, yeah, to find that space inside of the inner, essentially, you know, the masculine energy is reaching for infinity. And the thing that creates the trauma and the chaos is what we're bumping up against the real world every day, where, how do you find infinity when there's cages everywhere, and you've got to work your ass off, basically. And men work their ass off, but it's also, you know, I think culturally, it's, it's, it's the personal acknowledgment of, I'm working my ass off, I acknowledge that I respect myself. And then there's, I suppose, through dialogue like this a cultural shift of because we've gone so hard in the direction of anti patriarchy, which is correct. But there's a balance point where we need to treat everyone with kindness however they identify, of course, and, and yeah, that that's a hangover from the patriarch, or all people suffer from patriarchy. So men, I think men suffer. I mean, women suffer in their own way the men suffer in huge ways they can. I think what while I was talking to one of my guy friends and saying, just going on this rant, and he was just is he was just saying, yeah, he just agreed. And I think that yeah, I just, I just, I think part of it is that it's actually I said to him, I've discovered that men don't talk about this, not because they don't want to, but because part of testosterone is essentially it's like power. It's just, it's just having voltage having Imagine getting that thing and cranking it to 100. Which is problematic, because you're talking about a Tesla rocket that's designed to go to the moon, and it needs to go straight. And, and, you know, yeah, anyway, I'm just saying that part of the issue. Yeah, it's just that there's too much power, that it's hard to eat, trying to get a grip of yourself. And then you can start coming to the world and, and being there forever. And

I think it comes back to that ability to have self control like that there is this real impact from testosterone? From the moment boys go through puberty? And then it's trying to make sense of it even as a much older adult? So it's, yeah, I think I got what you're, you're trying to say, is very much that that being able to harness that, that massive voltage, I wanted to touch on something else that you talked about before I get the feeling from how you describe that psychosis is that not only visually you your mind goes, this massive vision, but you've got the ability to process massive amounts of data from a visual perspective, but also from a thinking perspective. So when you go through this transition, like, how did you? How are you able to harness that energy? Of all these different visions and thoughts? Yeah,

be allowed. That's what I would say,

is important, because a lot of that same experience. You could totally overthink as long as sort of stuff. What if you could be able to harness that incredible

how you have to harness it? Yeah. So I I just say undesigned as a rocket, like I'm, I'm my energy in its natural state is rocketship energy. And that's why I had such a depression being on estrogen. It's just so unnatural to who I am in my personal. Yeah, so I just, it's just tenacious work. I worked my ass off, I was on this farm, and meditated for two hours, three hours, sometimes four hours, five, six hours. And I just need my purpose was just to be there and get the energy through me. So I did that not program over and over and over and over. I would do so many of those. I would go for really long runs. It's all energy going out, you know, and I also actually didn't have many people around me at the time, but I did have. So maybe you know, Simon and Laura from the authentic livings. center, but they have a modality called unconditional love healing. And so I was doing healing swaps. So I had sort of, by this point, I am well into my conscious journey. And I have a lot of modalities at my fingertips. And also morning pages I do the artists, the artists way was my way to vision up something totally different. So I'd be by myself, but I'd go on auto states, and I do my morning pages every day to find out what you know, it gives you the clarity of what the next step is. And that was, and that's the same as what I did in the Blue Mountains, a lot of the time, a lot of these practices were the same in the Blue Mountains, I went for long runs in nature, I yeah, I would write all the time, I would go to cafes, I mean, even that's part of it, you know, just being regular. And talking to people I go to this design cafe that felt so safe. And it was just generally older people and they have so much wisdom and grounding that they just tell me stories, and it just gets you out of the crazy shit. And it was, it was actually kind of crossover COVID Time New South Wales was in COVID at that time, so I felt like I was still experiencing, I was going through the hangover of, of that, in that still the world was in some sort of lockdown. And, and I was still facing huge fears that I had to, that's how I did it. And I also when I'm a more grounded mind, I write music. And actually, music is the highest thing for me, I, I, I sit down every night and with whether it's with a blank page, and I'm trying to write something or it's actually with channeling through, you know, you've got to find the thing that is your thing that allows you to me, I mean music is traditionally it creates that space. So that's what I had to learn to respect music, and creativity before music, creativity, I was talking about writing, I was writing a book, that being in touch with my highest level of creativity is how I was constantly and still to this day, that's how I stay sane. You know, I'm, I'm in touch with my creative space, which is vast, infinite, and wherever it wants to go. And then you just have your practical, I found you know, in my life currently, my piano routine actually is, is grounding. It's as grounding, if not more grounding than meditation in my current life. Because it's grounding that big creativity. And but before that, like I said it was writing, putting the pen to the page documenting my experiences. And that is how I got through the really big energy that came with testosterone. And the other thing I would say is that they gave us equivalent to what men go through in two years in three months. Oh, well, so intense. It was it was Yeah. Psychosis. 2.0 Yeah, right.

So what I what I took from that is that we come back to that concept of embodiment, how you bring more of being more of who you are, the key things you talked about was presence. And then we are talking about meditation, or just silence time alone. Breath, the structure and routine, so crucial. And then I talked about a lot about journaling. But really what you're saying it's any kind of art, it's just getting all of that stuff out of your head, whether it's through music through writing through some other form of artistic method, which can be performance can be through your sport, whatever. But those are really key elements. To get you through that, that overstimulation of thoughts and what however, data shows up for you. So that's a really good overview.

That's how they all work together as well, saying, You got to you got to move your body, you got to move your soul and your spirit in mind. You have the energy.

Yes. Emotion, right, energy and motion. Yeah, let's get it moving. Now, you've talked about a lot about the creativity and the atlas of consciousness. So I know your brand has got a few different arms. But of course, the way that you describe your journey makes total sense. Right. So tell us a little about, about what you do. And yes, more of an umbrella version, because I know there's a lot of depth to it as well.

Yeah. Well, it's just so the atlas of consciousness is a media and production company. And the tagline is that she has a vision for a new world. So essentially, I work with leaders that And we film their stories and we just create cut their stories into really tie paces describing, you know, the richness of who they are. And we share it and some of the some of the amazing things that have happened. So a man came to me who had just a few live years to live. His name's Anthony Symes and, and what came to me was his story was a story of life. You know, he had always felt that he was in the background, he, he decided with these last few years that he wanted to be seen, you know, and it was just this bold, and still to this day, he's just the most profound human, I feel I've met, because he was so good to all of us in the crew. And he was his muscles were dying every day that we saw him. And he was so kind, and he was really professional with us. And he stood up for his truth. And his truth was to support assisted dying laws. So unfortunately, it didn't happen before he passed. But after he passed, his sister in law shared the video, and one of the association's dying with dignity, shatter, and they tagged all these local politicians, and it ended up getting viewed 132,000 times and tag all these politicians and the, in my understanding, so hopefully, I didn't get this wrong, but it's been passed in New South Wales. So he got his wish. And it was through His truth, that he got his wish. But yeah, it's people like him. There's a lot of others that I've worked with that. They're just visionaries. You know, they have their own practices, they have big visions for the world. And I make videos and podcasts with them and share it. And the Atlas also makes its original podcast. So that's when I tend to share a lot of my personal journey. And yeah, I've made two that have been distributed. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of material that in the next few years, I'm hoping to get out into the world, which is some of the stuff I said, I was writing books and other podcasts and things like that.

Awesome. So not only your own journey of stepping into the truth of who you are, you know, helping other people to find their truth and share it with the world.

Yeah, yeah, it well, it works alongside itself. I really it's it's the work I do i i support other leaders with their visions and and yeah, my as I said, what my daily practices is recording my own experiences. And so that gets me through.

I can relate to that, and listeners of this podcast, and I would I would I do the same and sharing those messages. Yeah, they're not just to share wisdom, but they're our own cathartic process. Yeah, exactly. Dude, Is it anything else that you would like to leave the listeners with before we wrap it up?

No, I'm sure they'll just be links for them to be able to check out some of the content. And yeah, a lot of the stories I've told, you know, they they will be shared or have been shared in, in Atlas content, different podcasts that have been a will be released. So

very cool. Yeah. I'll definitely have those links in there. And I'm particularly interested in the the journeys that you described there of people's. Yeah, people's story is powerful. It's, it's one of the reasons why I love this platform to share other people's stories. And thank you for coming and sharing your story. I'd appreciate it.

Thank you. It was awesome.

Good stuff. Glad you enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief. Let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform