Finding Your Personal Truth with Kirsten Barfoot

Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back. You've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it and what to do next. Before we start by one request. If any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the end Hawkins coaching.com and let me know what you found. I know the power of this word. I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it. Welcome everyone, and welcome to this week's guest, Kirsten Barfoot. Kirsten how I

Kirsten Barfoot 1:08

am very well. Thank you for having me, Ian.

Ian Hawkins 1:12

Good. Good. I was asking you about the pronunciation of your name in his head, people are already calling your back foot.

Kirsten Barfoot 1:22

Oh, I especially loved the ones who asked me to spell it. So they asked me to spell my name var F to blow T and then the letter or whatever it comes is got barefoot. And I'm like, Why did you ask me to spell it if you weren't just gonna do what you want anyway,

Ian Hawkins 1:43

fantastic.

Kirsten Barfoot 1:45

And I am barefoot right now. Just just add that

Ian Hawkins 1:50

Ugg boots for me. It's been worth your date with your time barefoot. Anyway, we digress. Let's get to what we wanted to talk about, which is your journey. And we're talking before we came on, you're saying well, what do you want the focus to be? And I was just thinking, then I was like, well, have I made that clear to the audience? And, and the intention for me is always the same. It's like, through other people's journey of grief. How can we show the guests journey, how they've overcome that grief, and how that's perfectly positioned. And for what they do now, whether they have their own business, or they're working for someone else, everything is all our experiences play such a pivotal role. And for most of us, we have had a big moment. And for you, you were just talking about that moment where it felt like at the time that you'd lost everything. So could you tell us a little bit about what unfolded in the in the lead up to that? And then what was that event that left you feeling like that?

Kirsten Barfoot 2:59

I I had, I guess, you know, when you look at those parts of your life, and you go, okay, that picture was perfect. Like on the outside, you would have gone Great job, great working environment, community, everyone cared about each other, have this partner on again, off again, that's always behind the scenes though. And, you know, all of the things, all of the things, money, houses, cars, all that everything was, you know, that whole external success factor. And after going on a seven week trip through South America, which was amazing, I came back to this company, and they were going through a big shift in you know, like a merger. And my name was not on the list of continuing with the company, which didn't come as a massive surprise, but it was sort of one of those things, it was a moment in time, you know, those moments in time when you got okay. I'm okay, this is obviously something is giving me a sign to do something. So I continued with this. People have I have been called a Pollyanna before, which is like, you know, see the Silver Cloud in in Sorry, what is it the silver lining in every cloud? So I was like, okay, that's fine. So we moved into state, and this was not going well, this change in the relationship and all that kind of stuff. And I came back home, and I found myself in this place with nothing. Like I've gone through all my money. I didn't have another job. I was having an attempted running my own business was not doing a very good job of that. And the relationship had failed. Here I am lying on my parent's bed thinking, oh my god, like I have nothing. And I also was hyper aware of my age and that time is ticking, and I had no children. And that just sent me into the spiral of sheer despair, at how did I get to this place where I had nothing and I was so angry. And I, I screamed up to God, like, what how did I get here, like, what I have nothing. And I don't know how to explain it. So I'm just going to do the absolute best I can was there was a voice or something, I don't know an energy that said, Ah, Kirsten, you have everything. Now, I can tell you that I was not in this really beautiful meditative receptive state to receive some kind of feel good message from my highest self. This was definitely something that called from outside of me. So while at that point, it gave me that moment of like, who just breathe, didn't all become clear in one moment, it's sure as anything, but it made me very calm, and I was able to breathe. And now what I understand that message to be is it wasn't just for me, wasn't just for me, that is the message that is for everyone. We all have everything, we all have this access to something so extraordinary. That is, you know, we still tend to see the source or this energetic God or whatever is as as residing outside of us. But our biggest power is when we can bring that source and know it as within us. Yeah. And activating that potential within us.

Ian Hawkins 7:22

Spot on. And I don't know that I imagine every listener would have some moment like that. I know, I can think of a couple where it's like, where did the words come from? That just popped into my head? Sometimes I even said them out loud. And just like was like involuntarily? And like, where did that come from? And it's like, like, Yeah, from within this internal eternal energy. That's, that's there. So it kind of did the fast version of that, I want to come back to like those moments like so. So you get told that there's not a job for you. Now, I know you said part of that wasn't unexpected. I also know that everyone I've spoken to that I've helped through a redundancy, or job loss has been some element of grief, even myself. When I got when I took a voluntary reality. So I chose to leave with an element of rejection that was felt. Oh, they seem to let me go pretty easily there. seem to agree to that too quickly. Exactly. Exactly. So obviously, what was that? What was that? Like? Was it? Is rejection that a word that resonates? Or? Or was it something else? Or was it more relief?

Kirsten Barfoot 8:44

Look, I think all of those things. Um, you know, it was the second job in a row that I had been made redundant from, so I can't tell you that my ego was like going, Hey, this is so awesome. Like, whoa, um, you know if I may bring myself to the future, and then reflect on how I see it now. I don't think I would have had that much cognizance at the time. But what I see now is that I have this deep fear of inadequacy of not being good enough. And so for me, I guess when those things when I was made redundant, it would have just fueled that or made that belief. True. Of course, I'm not good enough. And so there's that sense of like, oh, okay, cool. Well, that's just, that's just made that evidence procedure. completely true. You know, Yeah. And so there was a lack of confidence to because at the time, I was given an opportunity that not too many people would have been given. And I would, I saw it as a one chance, you get one chance to have that opportunity you make it or you, if you lose it, that's it, you don't get another, you don't get another chance at that. Now, this was never articulated to me. Nobody ever said, it's one shot at your app. Nobody ever said that. But that was my way of viewing that situation that I just would never be able to go in. And when I look back on it now, I think that was such such a lead bullshit. Like, I could have gone to any number of people and said, Hey, are you willing to give me another go, but because I didn't believe in myself, or because I believed in the story that I wasn't good enough, then that became my reality that became the truth and I lived by and you know, I still have that ability to live by that truth. I have to really check in with myself. Every day, every minute, every second that what are the stories that I'm telling myself, and really check in with those. So I don't think those sorts of things ever go away or not. In my experience, I don't feel like that story ever goes away. But the awareness of the story changes and my ability to now see it in a different way or accepts that that is part of me. Not make it wrong. Yeah, sorry.

That's good. That's fantastic way of describing it. Because that's that's so true is that we learn more about the things that have been in the past as we go on the growth journey. I was I was on a podcast this morning. And, and the host was talking about this book that she'd read, tell better lies, and it was talking about the stories we tell ourselves. And it's

so just honest. Yeah.

Yeah, but we do it. Because we were creative meaning making machine that every situation, we create 1000 things that we might have done wrong or anything, right.

Yeah, totally. Totally. We love it. That's like the drama addicted to the drama of beads wrong. Like, or Yeah, yeah, it's pretty funny. Rarely,

it is when you think about it. So so what you described there, the the inadequacy, it's something that I can relate to a lot. And it's something that a lot of my clients relate to, is that, despite the fact that they're doing so well, in so many areas, there's still this underlying fear of being inadequate. They feel it in so many different areas of their life. So knowing that now, like, do you look back at so many moments and think, wow, if only if only I believed in myself and realize just how strong I am and back to myself? Could I have done better?

Yeah, but I think that's what life is, you know, we, we do always have the benefit of hindsight, we always have the benefit of looking back and going, Oh, wow. If I had have done that, like, I look back and I think, wow, like people say, Me, you just need to get a little bit more confidence. I was like, how can you just get a little bit more confidence? You know, that is the most unhelpful thing to say to somebody, you know? What, if you're not feeling confident, or you just need to feel confident? Okay, so how do I feel confident, and that confidence has come? Because I have mucked it up so many times made so many mistakes, so many times stood back up so many times. Done it better so many times. You know, that's how I get confident as confident in knowing that I can. I can, you can get through it.

Yeah, absolutely. The other thing that can sorry, you go sorry. I was gonna say the other thing that came to mind was that, that that's the impact of confirmation bias. Right? We we continue to seek out things to prove to ourselves that we are inadequate or mediocre or whatever.

I tell you, it's so funny, I understood this. This is why I think that the word truth really needs to be checked in with when people want to use that word, because like, your truth, my truth, the truth are all very, very different stories, even my truth is the truth. But we have to do this limiting limit limiting beliefs, questionnaire, and it would come out with your number one belief, and my belief was not good enough. And I say Yeah, yeah, but that's, that's true. It's not like a limiting belief like i That is actually true because my evidence procedure was on failure on on things that didn't work out. So it's like, you have to then have I don't even know what the critical moment of shifting that was. But it is a critical element in the work I do with my clients now is let's shift that perspective, like, because the truth has many different sides to it. So which one do you want to have a look at? Do you want to keep seeing that one? Or do you want to open up your perspective and see something else?

Yeah, I imagine the early step is similar to most people is it's the awareness. Like we were talking before about those moments where the where the voice just hits you. Before I'd had a coach or a mentor, I'd listen to this guy, again. And again, talk about the importance of it and just cringe because I'm like, oh, that sounds expensive. It sounds this sounds that. And then when I went to this guy's event, and then, and then I went to sign up, and he asked me, why did you want to do this? And I went, because I'm sick of being mediocre. And that sentence just came out of my mouth. And I remember thinking, where'd that come from? Like, it was just, it shot out before I had a chance to even think. And through the lens of the conversation we're having now it's like, Yeah, I absolutely was. And leading up to that there are still different times now where we just think now I could be someone doing so much better. It's the, it's the curse of the high performer or the perfection is still the Maximizer, who always sees how things can be better. So I don't know if you can relate to that, that that feeling of just you and this was good. But geez, I could have done that better.

Yeah. Yes, of course, I can relate. And of course, I can relate to the perfectionist, which the perfectionist is a dangerous, dangerous creature. Because it's a stopper, and it will re emphasize not good enough, because it will stop any kind of creativity. So I forgotten what your question was. Your question was, can I relate to that?

Yeah, that just that those those.

But it's, it's like, noticing those because what has become like super, super clear, is that we I don't know if you can relate. But this almost this fear of failing, the fear of failing the fear of getting it wrong, the fear of all of those things, and then it's that perfectionist that will take over and say, I can never get it to that point of perfection. And then it never ever get anywhere. So now it's like, wow. Wow, what does it look like to just give it a red hot go and fail? Like, what does it look like to just actually not get it? Right? Oh, what does it look like to accept the fact that I get angry sometimes? Would it be okay, for me to accept that there are darker parts of me that maybe don't want everyone to know that? That they exist? Yeah. And is it okay? I can be okay with that. It's like just relaxing into life instead of being so caught up in having to make it so perfect.

It's like conditioning runs so deep around that. And when I had to explain to me, it's like, even when you go to school, like there's a red pen, you make a mistake. And we get really focused on the things that we don't do well, and it just goes continues on the whole way through. Even tongue in cheek cheek comments like you know, you do really well on something and someone jokes are what happened with those other two or three, whatever. And yeah, so the the repeat patterns on that it's great that we can identify it now sells. I'd love to come back to the work that you do helping people but I want to head back to that moment you talked about when when. So you'd go from no job and then and then you're in that place where you suddenly have that voice but what was playing out before that like you mentioned before we came on how you didn't really feel like you'd had any of those big grief moments, the heart aches around, someone passing away or any of those sorts of things. But in these moments, it's important for us to to highlight that grief shows up in many different ways. So how did it show I'll see you prior to you having that epiphany.

It's funny, isn't it? Because this is a really, really, you're asking a question that is not answered very honestly, by us, generally, I don't think, and I would not have answered this, honestly, even if you had asked me, I would not have known that I was in grief, I would have not accepted that I was having I was having a traumatic event in my life, I would have said, let's get on with it. I can do this. I'm a strong woman, I'm resilient, I can move through this. And I would have just gone on with it. And I have, it is only now. Like, very recently, within the last couple of years of really delving in to how things make me feel, how do I feel, as I said to you before, I have a very huge anger response to life. So that's how trauma or grief will show up for me, there will be an anger and rage at life, as as I told you about how I talk to God. So God responds very well to my angry voice.

So that's how it shows up for me. You know, that's my response. And what I've found is that we can, this might be going off topic of what your question was, let me just is that we can make ourselves wrong for how we deal with our emotions, because some people will feel them within them. And some people will show them externally. But let's, let's face it to that anger, no matter whether it's dealt with, within or without, it has seen as a very negative response. And so that can then add to the the just not being able to cope with things.

Yeah, absolutely. And

so I'm trying to go back to that question, because what the question that you asked

what, what was what? You didn't You didn't didn't necessarily associate with grief. But what? What was playing out for you physically? How were you feeling? What fears were coming up? Like? Were you feeling stuck? You didn't know what to do? I mean, you mentioned that you kind of just got on with it. But were there moments there of hopelessness?

Yeah, totally. And I think when you said stuck is the right thing. I think it was more like spinning my wheels, just trying all manner of different things, trying to make them work. Because that's what we kind of go into is this whole doo doo doo doo doo. That's what I did. Sorry. Doo doo doo. And and it's kind of like, that's the thing that Hi. We mask it up, we mask up. We haven't we? I'll say that I did. I master up how I was feeling by constantly being in this place of action, action, action, action. And so this constant focus is then external. It's like, how do I get the money? How do I move on in terms of a job or whether I want to go into another business, it's like constant distraction. So that I don't have to necessarily feel what it is the rejection, the abandonment, the not good enough, all of those things, then get masked up by other things that are seemingly more important.

Absolutely, just a different avoidance tactic. So rather than not not doing doing a whole lot of other stuff, that instead of what you should be doing, which is either like you said, sitting in the emotion or getting on with the thing that will take you past wherever you got, you're stuck. Yeah,

but it's it's sort of I would say that it was back then it was an inability to even know what self inquiry was all about. I was reflective, I was contemplative. I could reflect on many, many things. I used to reflect on how badly I behaved or all those sorts of things, or how did I get it wrong, but there, there wasn't that that inquiry as to how can I see this differently? Or okay, I can acknowledge that I felt sad or in anger or what was that all about? You know, it was never enough. a helpful way it was in a in a distracted in a distracted, non helpful way.

I guess what comes to mind? Is it kind of in a way that kept you in the drama like you described before? Yeah, I think we that's part of the grieving process is we're not ready to move on from whatever the story is that was attached to that. Until we Yeah.

And you know, when you said what's the intention of this is like to understand that each part of the journey actually leads us to where we are right now. And so all of those things really did lead because I had to get to that point of sheer this is not working. This is just, I can't keep doing this the same way. Because I'm just, you know, and that's when the whole thing blows up. You feel like so helpless. You want to know that helpless? Yes. I felt completely helpless. I felt like I don't got this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Gain. It's, it's normal. And people go through it. And like you said before about anger, we, we try and pretend like we don't experience these things, or we call it negative. And it's like, No, we just sometimes it's just okay, just to accept that. At that time. I think people get to that point, and then they sink lower, because that's the time where you kind of need some help, right? Like, as you were telling your story, I was reflecting on the time where I was like that I wasn't lying on the bed, but I was lying on the lounge room floor, just going, how do I get here? And now what do I do? And I don't know that being a voice. But there was a clear person that I was being encouraged in my head to reach out to. And,

and that's, that's the same thing. It's like, it's gonna be different for everyone. But it's so it's the clarity that comes? Yeah, whatever it is, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. So when you then feel like you've lost everything? Where do you start? Like, what? Is it just survival for a period of time?

Yeah, I think that's an interesting word, isn't that? Yeah. But what happened was, I met my first mentor. So that was kind of like one of those instances, I was just being really cheeky. And he had this book millionaire. And I said, Are you? So are you going to be a millionaire or some cheeky thing like that? And he goes, actually, I'm in the book.

Oh, so anyway, he ended up giving me the book, he gave me the book. And he said, Here, you take it, and, and he put his card in there. And just so we're really clear, this was all very aboveboard kind of interaction, it was a divine interaction, that wasn't any kind of messiness. And, and, and he really, he really just, you want to talk about opening up to a different perspective. That was, that was what supported me, he opened me up to these concepts of like being grateful, being grateful for things that we might not be grateful for, like, you don't want to be grateful for the fact that you've lost your job. But what did it bring to you like, just really opening me up to this concept? And as I said, you know, I've always been a bit of a person who's looked at the, the, what is it? The silver lining, but when I think that when you can look at a situation that has been really hard, and find something that you can be grateful for it, what did it bring you What lesson did it? How did it make me grow or something like that you've kind of transmitted the energy from a negative experience, to a growing experience. And that's what life is like. It's not that we want to get rid of the trauma or get rid of the, the grief, it's like, actually, what, what can how, like, if we're gonna look at life as a masterpiece, it's not devoid of the messiness, it's not devoid of the dark pieces. It's the dark pieces, give it the beauty give it the exquisiteness that is unique only to each individual. So, you know But that was a real game changer in how I viewed this was that was when he was he was the one who asked me, Why didn't you do such and such? And I said, I'm not good enough. And he, he, like literally just took his breath. He was like, completely just said that, like he was taken aback by the goals of saying I'm not good enough. And that was the first time that became a conscious awareness that that was the belief that I carried.

Yeah. I imagine that if you'd been attracted to him, there would have been part of him that was triggered by that as well.

That's probably Yeah, he was. He was definitely like, taken aback like there was a physical reaction to I'm not good enough. What? Wow,

I think you'll like this quote, you talked about messy. Robin Sharma says, all change is hard at first, messy in the middle, and gorgeous at the end. And that's a great description of what Greece like as well. And if I can take anything from that part of the story that you just share there is that when when you're ready, you'll find the gift in your grief. And sure, we wish the events didn't happen. And if it's the loss of someone, we would love to have those people back. But when you can find the gift that changes everything. Again, reflective, I was drawn immediately to where I had that moment around, my dad's passing was like on the train. And I'm like, wow, like, I wouldn't have done the things that I've done since then to improve unless I'd been through that. And then talked about some of that spiritual side. To me, that's when you start thinking that that tapestry of life that you talked about, like, was this even meant was this meant to happen. Like, did I need to go through this, I'm getting goosebumps. As I say. I'm just a believer that some things are meant to happen. I liked how I referenced a few times lately, Karen Chaisson who was on I'm not sure if you know, Karen, she, she has a business around grief her her son must have been 18. I think she wakes up in the morning goes to the front door, and there he is dead. He got to the front door late at night, and then collapsed. And no one found him to the morning. And part of her making sense of that was well, I, He guides me in my business now. And I believe firmly that we sat down before we came into this world and had a conversation about how it was going to go. Yeah. And whether you buy into that or not. It just it's a beautiful way of making sense of something that often we just can't make sense of.

It's the empowering way, isn't it? Yeah. Like we can, we all have the choice, we have a choice of how we want to view things we can title it and no way is wrong. Or right. For that matter. It just is the way it is.

So truth he talked about before. That's the truth.

Like the truth. You know, I was so it's so funny with that truth word, like how much I will you know, something happened. And I was like, you know, I held that belief with all my perceptions, my perception of how things are playing out. And, and I will hold that as tea with truth with a capital T. You know, there was no, nothing was getting through that. And something happened. And it's like, my perception was completely wrong. And from then on, I had to downgrade that truth to a little tea. It was just a little tea I was like, and from then on, just watch. Watch when you call something a truth, like what does truth really mean? Because it sure is anything 7 billion people around the world 7 billion truths and you know, are they right or wrong? Or just the way that they are?

Exactly. And it's a great time to reflect on that given the amount of capital T truth that people were meeting spewing forth and you know, like, over that time and everyone thought they knew the truth and you never knew they facts and everyone became an expert in all these different areas. But ultimately, the only place that you can come back to is that is that self truth. I still think it's got a capital because if it's your own truth that deserves a capital, but as you say It's true at the time until you provided with new information to show you that the truth actually something else until that's proven to be wrong as well.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, yeah. Anyway, as you say, I like what you said it's true in the present moment. And and it can always be upgraded or downgraded in my, in my, in my

experience, just sometimes just sometimes it leads to the upgrade there, right?

Yeah, that's right. That's right. It was pretty funny. Wow.

Awesome. Now, how do you go from? Well, actually, I think we got to be off track there. Because I said to you, how did you go about taking action? Oh, yes. Right. You got to? So you've met your mentor. Now? Did that get you sort of heading in the right direction quickly? Or was that just a stepping stone to something else that really sped up the process.

And I have to be very, very honest with you, there is nothing about my journey other than the way I like to do it. That is quick, everything has been slow. Everything has been the winding road, everything has been about backtracking. And going in didn't get that quite right. I need to do it again. Oh, my God, and then doing it again, a different way. Because as I have found out, I'm very much the experiential, very much the experimental, and now I'm okay with it. But honestly, to God, that has been so frustrating. Because people seem to have it all together, they get there really quickly. And I'm like, Oh, my God. Yeah,

really have it all together. It's just people get really good at projecting weather.

So no, as I said, I like to I'm the kind of person which I have to learn to slow down because somebody once said to me are, you're the kind of person who likes to jump, and then find the parachute. And I was like, that is the perfect description of how I like to do life. Yep. But sometimes, you know, the parachute hasn't opened up in time for me to land safely. No, that's not true. Because I've always landed on my feet safely. But it's I probably broke a couple of ankles along the way, which really could have been avoided by just slowing down a bit. So now, it is very much a journey of like, just, even though I'm the kind of person who can make decisions quickly, I now even practice just saying, Can I think about it, just because I'm practicing what it's like, to slow down? Not for any other reason other than to just like, does it have to be answered? Right? This second? No. So do you want to just give yourself like, an hour or two, just to think about?

Yeah, yeah, I can definitely relate to that. It's the curse of the people pleaser, right? Give me an answer. And mostly, I'm gonna say yes. Or I don't want to miss out might be good. Or, yeah, I really, I really should help them. But on the flip side is like, we get so much out of being involved and, and helping so there's a real wind from it as well. But I like that as well as like, Don't dive into something saying, Yes, I need to 24 hours later to go shit, I should not have said yes to that. It's way better. Just take your time. Maybe don't even get any response for the first 24 hours.

That's right. And I mean, it's not to say that you're not going to do it. Or that is I think, also the pause the time to pause, gives you a time to go. I'd like to do it. But maybe this would be better for me, or you know, just giving the added extra because the people pleasing does come up, you know, we all want to make everyone else happy. We we live for that. You know, and so it's not like we don't get to be selfless. But we also get to be selfish in the way that we give ourselves from a place that we have a lot to give rather than going oh my god, I hate doing this. I wish I hadn't agreed to work. Then becoming resentful. I think that when we go against our soul, we are telling our soul that it's it's not good enough where it doesn't get to be heard or it doesn't have a voice or those.

Yes. No, it just made me I agree wholeheartedly. And it's like it's like when you ask for something and then you'd have It delivers. And you go. Yeah, but maybe I don't want that maybe I, maybe it's too expensive maybe. And it's like no, like, you've asked, you've been given receive it. Because that's the message you want to tell the universe's. I want more of that. And for those, again, you'd like more of the logical scientific thing and talk about your unconscious mind. Your unconscious mind has found the solution to what you're asking. It's given it to you. And then you don't accept it. We get confused. It's like, well, what what do you want? So? Yeah, absolutely. Just take it. So I want to come back to the learning, right, like so you've come out the other side of this. And you said, Okay, well, it didn't go 100 miles an hour. But what were the key learnings in those in those early years coming up the side of other side of that? Fog?

I'll definitely slowing down as it has been a big one is like I think that just gets like that deeper aspect, every time. Understanding that there is no right and no wrong. So you know, we like to say yes, that was the right thing to do, or no, that was the wrong, wrong thing to do. And yet, it's never wrong. Like he talked about, you know, grief, everything having its place, it's like even the wrong terms, the perceived well turns, turn into something, it's like it's the breakdown before the breakthrough. It's like you have to have that awareness of what didn't work so that you can come to the place of like, the clarity, the additional like, Okay, this is what does work. Okay, let's keep going. And then there's always going to be those choices which way? So, so acknowledging that there's no right and wrong. It just is. And if we can view life as a neutral event that actually support our whole life, health, our mind, everything, you know, and well, well being.

Absolutely. I'm a big fan of it's not the making the wrong decision. That's the problem. It's the taking too long to make a decision, the in decisiveness, all roads all lead to the same place if you want it to say, just get on with it, make a decision and get away. Yeah, it comes back to something you were talking about before is like the perfectionism, it's like, I remember Coach saying to me, if you're not embarrassed by the first stuff that you put out to the world, within you took too long. Thankfully, I get really embarrassed when I look back at some of them are not embarrassed, but you just meant you read some of the things you put in.

I can't go and watch any of my videos anymore. I'm like, Oh, my God,

who even is that person? Yeah. Yeah. But again, it's it's it was the truth at the time. And it's part of the growth. And the alternative would be to, to still see the same person that you are now. And having gone nowhere, which I did that for 38 years or something. So I'd much prefer this. This version.

Yeah, I, you know, I'm sure you didn't just stay the same for 38 years, you might think that but I, I do not think that that is the truth with a capital T,

of course. But that's that's how it feels like when you're when you're when you're on the treadmill. Right?

Yeah, it does feel like that. There's something else I'd like to add, because I think it's important is like giving grace to ourselves. You know, the fact that I think we can be very hard on ourselves. I think society is hard, you know how hard on lots of ideals and things like that. And then we become like, this is the way it is this is the way it should be. But if we can be graceful, for the things that don't work out, the things that we wish didn't happen if we can actually bring that element of grace to it. It does. harmonize how we can be in the world.

Yeah, I love that. And you talked about one of the early things that being being grateful being appreciative seeing the goodness appreciating all that's good. We talked about the gift and the grief it's like the more you can focus even in the struggles of what's good, the more that you will bring in. You get stuck in the drama. Let's What you're involved in?

Yeah, because that's all you can see. Yeah.

Yeah. Was it? Was there another mentor or guide? Who, who taught you something like or a moment where suddenly a new awareness? Had you coming at the world in a completely different way?

Yeah. The biggest mentor I can. Was was actually Dr. Joe Dispenza. So he'll probably be a popular, popular dude, because sort of a life changing experience for a lot of people. But, you know, I started I read his first Well, his second book, changing the habit of being yourself, which is interesting, because it's like, it's the habit of being who we are. And we're like, okay. And I really do attribute doing the work with that book, to me having a successful pregnancy because I was having miscarriages, so Oh, see, I forget, I forget about the things that are hard.

And, and some of the grief in your life because you said, Yeah, this character

was pretty big. That was actually a bit of a life. Yeah. Because the thing is, I have I have I had the successful pregnancy. So I actually do believe he was the he was always the soul. It was just me and the creation that were that was struggling. So I don't actually feel like I lost a soul as such, I feel like he was just trying to make it in and I couldn't hold it. And so it was. So that's, that's the way I see it. I know that. That's the way that some people see it. But that is the way that I see it. And I think that's probably why it's not like this. But it was very difficult to go through that at the time like that was you want to know that thing and the dark place? That was a dark place. Nothing was going right. But that was when I realized how much of this energy I stored about not being good enough. Just all of those fears of still not being good enough to you know, to bring life into the world. And was this ever going to happen? Was I ever going to make this happen? So back to your question about Dr. Joe Dispenza. I was on the meditative journey. And, and so I believe that it was through that work that I made this pregnancy a success. And so, a couple of years later, I re introduced myself back into the work when I was going through marriage. Not that that is funny, but I'm just laughing at the things that would be grief, orientated and realized. There are some core elements of my life that you could say, hold a substantial amount of grief. So so the work allowed me to come back into who I was who I wanted to be in the world, and allowed me to come back into alignment of who am I what are my life values? What am I going towards, I have now this baby son, I want him to grow up in this beautiful environment. And it was becoming very apparent that my husband and I were not providing that nurturing environment. And so after having a meditation, I realized that this conversation had been going on for a long time, that this conversation had been wanting to be aired, but I was not seeing it. And I was not open to to that being the reality. And so from that place, we were able to have a really mature conversation about that this was probably time to dissolve the marriage. And so the while the decision is not made lightly, it has not been an acrimonious separation. It was very amicable it was very, it does not mean I don't get angry at times I do but I do not ever engage in the conversation until I am in a place that we can have a decent conversation. So you know, so he, I would say But Dr. Joe Dispenza has been a very critical mentor of mine. And the reason why I like him so much is because I can take the teachings, and then I can go away and I can experiment with it and do my own thing without anyone actually saying, yes, you're doing it right now you're doing it wrong, all that kind of stuff. So that was, yeah, that was kind of cool. Yeah,

yeah. The best stuff that we teach people and that we do always comes from our own experimentation. We pretty much there's not too many new ideas anymore, right? Everything's sort of come from a conglomeration of a whole lot of other stuff. But yeah, it's always we take the learning and then make it better. Yeah, absolutely. But Dr. Joe is a good place to start. He's got some pretty cool stuff out there. I've been listening to The Attractor Factor recently just go over I can't remember when I got that originally. But it just to just a bit of a revision of some of those things. He's got some some great work. You said, you mentioned I kind of touched on a bit of this. Now you said that, that going through that experience of losing everything and you said it was like a mystical experience. So talk to me more about a mystical experience. Because for some people listening to that by God picture like a movie or something and like, a forest with fairies and whatever else. Yeah, but what are we doing?

Gotta be careful using the mystical word, don't you think I've felt for so long that you can't use that word mystical, because it does conjure up. But the way this is another thing I like about Dr. Joyce is anyone who's on the search for God, or to know God? And I was like, Yeah, well, that's it. It's about the divine. But not only is that about that search for the divine, but it's to search for the divine within me. It's like, it's not something outside of me. Anyway, getting back to your question about mystical, so it can be anything like I don't want to put somebody off who is like, is like, I don't believe in God. Okay? So it's something that you believe in that is a higher being of yourself, like, your unconscious, you use that word before, if you want to use like this scientific, it's your subconscious, that's there to give you a higher aspect of what we will think about on a on an analytical level or a conscious level. But you know, people who believe in God, it's like, God, it's universe, it's the energetic frequency around us. It's like the old being or oneness. But a mystical experience would be I would call it like those moments of clarity that you talked about, you said, I do hear a voice that I had a very clear picture of who I needed to talk to mystical experience. That moment of clarity that you do not dispute. There is no question that there wasn't, there was truth in that. And and even if it was, even if you followed it up, and there wasn't, it didn't go to fruition. Something came out of that interaction. That that you went, Okay, I knew I needed to do that. Call it intuition, if you like, it can be intuition. Yeah, absolutely. Great. Did we cover all the words that could possibly be? Because

I think so. The third thing I wanted to highlight is it's usually a full body experience too. So we may get a voice we may get a nudge but there's something in our body that says like, we might feel as

Yeah, pay attention to that.

Absolutely. And again, when you when you buy into how you want to view this energy it's within all of us. Yeah, absolutely. Quiet now self in our mind and our life and slow down long enough that it is amazing what we will hear and then acting on it. And usually the most people relate to the gut feel and acting on it and then realizing how good was at or not acting on it and then realizing, all too late that you should have much more confirmation DNA that there's there's something going on beyond just what we think at a conscious and logic level. I'd love to hear more about how you're now helping people yourself, Kirsten. So you mentioned before we came on about really helping people to focus on their Gibson, and their purpose.

Well, um, last year, I published my book, it was called the inner wealth code, and it was about drawing people within so we We tend to as society said, the answers outside of us, I think that's a natural thing, we'll see that we'll see the external of providing that stimulus for us. So the book was about coming within. And really seeing that those answers within that exists within us, our value is within us. And it's that I'm under undergoing the journey towards that deeper experience. Um, and then I, I found something else. I found something else and enter in my next mentor was Richard rod, who is the he did the jinkies. And somebody introduced me to this work, and I was like, oh, okay, cool. I did my profile, and I could see it and I read it. And I was like, okay, I can really get this. It's like reading the stars. And then I got the book, and I read what my life's work. Works gift was in resourcefulness. And the way he described it in three paragraphs was what my book was about. Wow. Which took me 188 pages to write

some people.

Like I'm like, wow, okay, so yes. So so when I read that, I was like, Oh, my God. So who am I am I'm in I'm embodying that gift. Anyway, I have it. This part of me. It's not like it's outside of me. I'm trying to get it. No, no, no, it is there. And then I read this whole thing about the inadequacy. And I understood my inadequacy was in not knowing that's the inadequacy, not knowing not being good enough, whatever. That innate essence, is in wisdom, and get this is the paradox. The wisdom is in not knowing. Brilliant, do you just love that or what? So here I am, I'm like, hooked as anything, because now I can see that this is like, we are doing it. You're doing it, I'm doing it. Everyone who I have done these, these profile sessions with doing it. It's not like it's any major surprise. But what is the major surprise is that it becomes conscious. And now, not only can we see what the challenges are, because we love noticing those challenges and how they bounce around now, we have additional wisdom of like going okay, well, this is my path, to get to the innate essence, which also is not outside of me. It's it within me. And so it's an activation of those keys of those words of those essences within us to then how do we want to? How do we want to express those in the world? So it's not about what we do, necessarily, but how we do it? How do I want to express my resourcefulness or my wisdom in my life's work? It's like, this is how I choose to do it. But it wouldn't matter how I chose to do it. It's bringing the essence of that into all that I do. So it really has been a transformational path for me. But not only for me is for for my clients who have just come in and they're like, Oh, my God, you know, so much can shift in you, like you just can't believe how much can actually shift in changing the way that we see things. So you know, going back to that whole perspective thing, this really provides a tool for people to see a different picture for ourselves. Like, as I said, the brilliance of like, your inadequacy, as in the unknown is in not knowing. And then the wisdom is just hilarious. It makes me laugh because I'm like, Oh my God, you can't make this stuff

up. Yeah, well, it comes back to that thing that I've spoken to about in the podcast before is that it can be both the duality of so many different things like grief can be horrific, but they all kind of also can be amazing light and joy in it. And we can be searching for more knowing. But on the other side of that just realize how much more we don't know. Beautiful pie chart that's got this little tiny sliver that says things I know. And then things I know that I don't know. And then the rest of it's all things that I don't know that I don't know and that's Yeah, that's that's what I love to help people open up to. And it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing through this through the the tools that you've got, but also your own awareness. So when you wrote that book, did you suddenly think, Oh, now I need to write another book? Because I need to make adjustments?

Um, no, I just think that the book was it's I think in if you would have read it. If this was an introduction into you into spirituality into coming in, I think it's still it's still fine. It's great. Can it be deeper? For sure. I think it was a very safe book to write. I think I was definitely in flow. And it definitely had a trajectory to take people on a journey. But yeah, I could definitely write a different one. A new one.

Yeah. You get new knowledge. Right? Yeah. I was actually the other doctor day Joe, Dr. Joe Vitale was talking about when he when he discovered her pono pono. And then he says to his mentor, who taught it to him, he's like, Oh, does that mean, I just need to throw my first five books in the bin? And it's like, no, no, that will be perfect for someone who's up to that point in their journey. And it's like any anything, it's anyone who's ever created anything. It's like, oh, no, it'll still be valuable. You may look back at it not think it's perfect. But for someone else, it will be just what they need to hear.

Yeah. Like, I think there's always this is the thing about the perfectionist, and one of the chapters was going to be the perfection, that's Gremlin. But I changed that because that was actually something else that could be a little bit more valuable. But you know, I will still look back on that has been one of my most favorite accomplishments. It's like, I wrote it, I put a lot of energy, a lot of effort into it. I believe in us. But yeah, it's it's, it's always you can always go deeper onto things. Of

course, absolutely. Is there any message that that you'd love to share with your audience? You've talked a lot about a number of different topics, the word inadequacy, is the one that seems to have shown up a fair bit. Is there anything that you would love to share with someone who perhaps is really relating to that and thinking, Okay, well, that's all well and good, but what do I do about it?

Yeah, totally. And you know, what my favorite thing is, first of all, give yourself grace. Be gentle on yourself, be kind. And, you know, that inadequate part of you is so beautiful. And it's, it's, it's part of you for a reason. It has so much valuable information for you. And, you know, just like we don't like being rejected, we don't like being abandoned, that inadequate part of you doesn't like being rejected or abandoned either. And it wants to be seen, it wants to be heard. It wants to have significance, it wants to have relevance. And so just give it some airspace, give it some space to be seen and heard. And you're really going to discover some amazing gold that that inadequate part of you had to share. It's just amazing. Take it from someone who knows.

Yeah, that is so great. And so true. Oh, man, where was I going with that ahead? I'll have to come back to it. So so when you go, Oh, that's what I was gonna say. Is that you were talking before about? We had this this fear of like, of, what if I'm not good enough? And what if I'm inadequate? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that duality, again, that that we mentioned before is like, there's the fear of, well, what if I am really good? And what if everything goes really, really well? And some people go oh, I don't think I have any fear about that. It's like, Well, are you sure because the part of the inadequacy was your, your mind's way of keeping you safe by like, if you do that, you're going to open yourself up for emotional pain or mental pain, so probably better if you don't really stand in the spotlight too much because someone might cut you down or something. So this like, what did a friend of mine called This Week calculated mediocrity? Happiness I in that sort of space. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that is like how much of that inadequacy comes through to maybe an unconscious belief around? Not being too successful?

Yeah, nice one. It's a really good question too. So, just so happens that I went through this, this question for myself. And it came around the wasn't so much this success, it's around responsibility. It's like, can I handle the responsibility? can I handle? Can I be trusted with the responsibility? Am I the right person for the responsibility of this? And so it's like, while we might, on the surface, say, Yeah, of course, I'm responsible, I'm responsible. I'm responsible person, of course, because we like to just like that. It's like, what's, what's the underlying question? And what would you like to create? So it's not that that doesn't exist? Those are valid fears or uncertainties. So it's like, it's not just counting them or saying that they're not true, they are true that they're parts of you that that believe that? So it's, you've got that side of you? And then what is the side of you? Who is responsible? Who is successful? Who can handle it? Who can be trusted with it? What does that person look like? What does that person do? How does that person carry out? And it's like, even if you want to go into a visualization exercise, putting yourself in a circle of where this is the truth for you? How does that feel? How, how are you? What's happening, you know, just try and put yourself in those situations and acknowledge what comes up? You know, if things come up, it's not, don't discount it, like, look at it, it's okay, it's safe. Yeah, you know, and, and if you feel like you'd be better off having somebody to ask you the questions, then then go towards those people. But, you know, you you are powerful within yourself to go on that journey. But as, as Ian has said, like, you know, sometimes it is beneficial to have somebody ask you the questions. Oh, absolutely.

And, or always trying to empower people to do it themselves. But if they want help with the implementation, then then absolutely, because either way, I'm a fan.

Yeah. And, you know, it's, I think, sometimes, you know, even with interviews, you will ask different questions. And I will ask myself, so, like, you asked me quite a number of questions. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I haven't even thought of that. Like, you know, so. So, yeah, there is benefit in going deeper with somebody else. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I think I think you really highlighted the benefit of talking to someone there because, like, so much of the conversation we've been so on the same page with, but we come at it from a different angle. And I've written a few things down there myself of like, yeah, right. Okay. That's it. It's just a different perspective on the same problem. And it's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Most of you. You're welcome. Where can people find you, Kirsten?

I'm gonna give you I'll give you my link tree and I will have all the it'll have all the links to contact me.

Awesome. Kirsten, thank you so much. I appreciate you. I appreciate all your sharing and openness and truth with capital as

well, thank you. It's been very enlightening. And I hope this has been helpful. Thanks for having me.

I'm sure absolutely will be. You are welcome.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief, let's chat. Email me at info at Ian Hawkins coaching.com. You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.