Relaunch Your Career Path: Embracing Workplace Wellness

Welcome back. It is another fantastic day. And I am super excited to introduce you to this amazing woman who is near and dear to my heart because she loves scientific data. And what she does is she merges it with things that you actually care about one yourself and two, all about business and how they relate and how you can use these whether it's with just personal development or team development. And there is so much more but I just had to throw that out there because this is my jam. I love bringing new people that I am truly fascinated with. And today I have Kelly Mackin She is the author of work life well lived. And co founder and CEO of the motives met platform, which includes actionable tools like the one I was mentioning, motives, matte human needs assessment, it is a trademark, she knows she's got something good. For those that haven't trademarked your own personal goodness, make sure you do that. One, it adds to any sale that you will have of your business later. And two, it is just plain old, being smart. So she's going to share so much about how to empower people to create their best work life and work space, giving you that work place we all want. So Kelly, thank you for being here. And so excited for our time together and how you are assessing people and bringing them into this world of personal knowledge that will impact them.

Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this conversation. So it's gonna be fun,

it's gonna be great. And there's always there's always those people out there, those people, the people out there, and you know who you are, that will hear assessment and cringe or they'll hear assessment and say, like I do sign me up. Now I love to hear what I should be working on with that growth mindset. But let's start. Let's start in the past. And you know how much I love talking about significant relaunches that have shaped who you are right now. And really the reason you're doing what you're doing. So let's hear from you. What do you think is the most significant relaunch today?

Well, my big one was my journey through extreme ill being at work that really led me to have such a passion and really a determination for advocating for well being at work. And it was also witnessing my mom go through that same journey. As a kid that was really tough. My mom was senior vice president, one of the largest global advertising agencies. I mean, she was just this badass Trailblazer. And I looked up to her so much, and I saw this really interesting dichotomy of it first, for many years work lit her up. I mean, it gave her such confidence and joy and purpose, and it really fed the well being in her overall life. But then, when her company was bought out, everything changed. She had a micromanaging boss, the people she loved working with were leaving left and right. She couldn't keep up with the work that was piling on. And I share in my book, this story of as a kid, I walked downstairs in the morning, and I saw my mom making pancakes. And I was like, shocked because my mom did not have the time that pancakes like gone for work or rushing to get out the door. And I was like, What is going on? And she laughed and said, Well, I've pulled an all nighter and I thought I deserved a break to make you pancakes. And that really became the norm in my mom's work life. And I just remember it got to a point where she was getting physically ill before work crying, and I just was so devastated. And shockingly, I ended up on that same pathway. I ended up in the crazy agency world I call it madmen for the modern times. I mean, some of the struggles I think back on now and I'm like that was insanity. I mean, it was constant rush. I was taking Adderall to keep up it was a big drinking culture. I work till all hours of the night none of my needs were well met at work. And it took hitting some real lows before I had the Wake up COVID This is not okay.

But what are you? Well, let me ask you a question. What do you think really, when you say hit those lows? What did they what did they include?

I went into dark depression. I developed a sleeping disorder. I was on Ambien. I My eyes would switch, my hands would shake, and things in my personal life, were starting to crumble too, because that's the thing, we spend a third of our lives at work. So work life is life, if your work life is completely falling apart, that is going to bleed into your life and the life of those around you. And, you know, time to tend to those things. So I was just falling apart having ill being in every area of my life. And you

know, what, you know, what I appreciate that you're saying is that it's the double A, it's the Ambien to sleep Adderall to, you know, do what you need to do during the day. And it's that vicious cycle, right, you get into, and I had a health crisis, not with the with the double A's, but, you know, ended up just working myself to the bone and got this horrific, horrific, like skin condition, I'd already had melanoma. And so it, it does come out. I mean, your body is screaming at us sharing like, Hey, you're you're on the brink, like this is not good. And we just, we just keep, you know, throwing more things at it. So I get it. And in now, what you're talking about is that you really, you're trying to bring this meaning on well being in our work lives and these workplaces. But you you have done extensive research. And what is the research showing on how to actually make this happen? Because it's one thing to say it it's another to have it? Absolutely

we so we do very deep into extensive research to really uncover the truth. Because we were going why is it that even though more people are talking about work well being and advocating for it and demanding it and we wellness, tech and books on it, and CEOs actually focusing on it? Why is stuff so bad? You know, why is retention so low? Why is unhappiness at work skyrocketing? So the one of the first burning questions we asked ourselves is, well, first of all, what even is work well being, because both clarity equals goal achievement. If we don't have shared meaning and mindset around what this is, then it's going to really limit our ability to even get there. So we identified 10 dream killers that limit our dream or attainable dream of a work life while live as we call it. And really one of the biggest roadblocks was this, that we don't know what it means. And that actually how we've approached health and happiness at work is wrong. One of the biggest culprits is there are so much dang noise out there. There's a social media influencer telling you hey, it's about hustling to reach your potential. But a different one is like none, no, it's about your work life balance, having flexibility working anywhere in the world. You have TED talks, and books and research saying, Oh, it's all about purpose, or the golden ticket is belonging or growth. And it's completely overwhelming and contradictory. And so even though some of this information is valuable, and can help us, we need a way to organize, prioritize and simplified in a way that actually makes sense. You know, we felt like we were just drowning in information but starving for wisdom. So what we this

is fascinating, because as you said, we you know, we don't know what it really is, like who's defined it? Because certainly your mom was, you know, busting her ass. And that's that that wasn't it. You had her as kind of your mentor. That's what we're supposed to do. You ended up having something similar. And it really is a challenge. Because, you know, there's been so many times, and I've had so many people on the show were, all of a sudden someone says, you know, I didn't know any better. I was trying to blaze the trail ourselves. But we didn't have anyone going in front of us to say this is this is kind of the direction we should go. So that's incredible. I really think we have to get clear on what it actually means.

Absolutely, because what stands in the way becomes the way. So that clarity is pivotal. And so many people talk about work well being like, oh, it's about being happy and healthy at work, or it's content and satisfaction. And it's not that that's wrong. And I use those terms all the time, but it doesn't serve us as a definition, because it leaves while being vague and fluffy and elusive. You know, if I want a better work life for my team to be happy, what do I even do with that? And then we found people in the research would be like, hey, it's about keeping my sanity at work and not being too stressed. And we were like, Yeah, that would help your work wellness. But is that really the best way to think about flourishing in your work life? Probably not. And when I tell people I help people have work well being one of the biggest myths misconceptions I get is Oh, so you help you have people work on their work life balance. And I say that's actually untrue, that can be true for some people. But for example, I don't need work life balance to have my best work life. And I'll share more about why that is. And then we found certain things like fun and being challenged, those are missing from the work will be in conversation, but they were absolutely pivotal in the research for some people to live their best work life and thrive. So what we discovered after going into all of this data on research over the years and multiple studies, without well being at work is when people's most important motives are met.

And and you did say, and I do want before you give us the motives, you were talking about that unhappiness is skyrocketing. NIH, why do you think right now in our time, unhappiness is at such a pivotal point

being there are a few reasons, but one of them is that we still hold the belief that we have to give blood, sweat and tears to be happy in our work life. Though we have earned well being that it is a privilege and that one day, maybe you will have worked hard enough to get it. Or there's the mindset, I should just be happy I went to school for this, I worked so many years, I have a good job, I'm a breadwinner of my family. And that's one of the big dream killers out of the 10 is that we just don't end up prioritizing our well being at work, that even if we believe we deserve it, unconsciously, we might not quite be there. You know, if you had asked me when I was absolutely miserable. My work life, if I should have well being at work is that of course I should. But deep down, I didn't really believe I could, until I had worked my way there and a lot of people still get stuck in that. So that's one of the big ones.

So now let's talk about these motives, and what what really stands in our way.

So motives are the psychological, emotional, and social human needs, that are what wellbeing at work is all about. And we identified 28 of these human needs. And these 28 needs fall into 10 overarching buckets or motive domains, as we call them. Now we have this awesome visual framework on our website. It's in color, and it's interactive that makes this really easy to grasp. Because again, I was like we need some organizational structure around this stuff. There's all this information out there, how can we develop a framework that makes this much more accessible to everybody. So for example, in the freedom domain, there is the autonomy, motive, flexibility and free expression. In the balance domain, work life, harmony and balance, pace. Growth is a motive belonging, purpose, fun being challenged, having trustworthy leadership, having self esteem and being appreciated. So there are 28 of these needs. But what we also found out is that what you need most to thrive Hilary's going to be different than what I need most. We all have a few motives that rise to the top, and are the greatest drivers of our ability to be well and perform well at work.

So it sounds like what you've done. And correct me if I'm wrong, Kelly, that you've taken almost what the five languages of love. And you have created this much more extensive. What are your specific motives so that either you know this about yourself? Or you could actually help others if you get them to have an assessment? Is that correct? Yes,

absolutely. For example, the languages, The Five Love Languages, developed a five languages of appreciation at work that a lot of people might know, it's a book, it's an assessment, and I appreciate their work on appreciation. And there's a lot of great information. But for example, appreciation, company appreciation and pure appreciation are only two of the 28 motives. Some people really are driven by that it doesn't mean we want to feel completely unvalued at work. But if you're really trying to figure out what motivates motivates me, if I'm really trying to figure out what I need to focus on to thrive, that isn't going to help me that is personally not even close to a top motive for me,

isn't it this is so fascinating now like, Don't you wish there were so many years and years I had so many different people working for me, it would have been so amazing to have 28 human needs that I could sit there and be like, I got you. I gotcha here. Is this where the base of motives met Human Needs Assessment came from. I mean, what was really the impetus of us saying we need to Make this assessment.

Well, it was really the data that does show that all of these 20 needs can matter to some degree, but they don't matter in the same way at the same time in our career journey for each person. And that unfortunately, we all have blind spots, we don't even know what we need most, you know, there isn't a set hierarchy of needs, we need to know what our personal Hierarchy of Needs is. Because we also only have so many resources, so much time, energy and dollars. So where do I focus? You know, in an ideal world that might go great, I'd love for 20 out of 28 of these to be thriving. But that's why we call it the attainable dream of a work life well lived, because we will be the first to tell you that ain't gonna happen. Using 20 out of 20 needs to try to drive your well being at work is not going to work. Because trying to get you everywhere will get you nowhere, you need to prioritize, and really have a guiding compass for you. So because of that, we went, Okay, let's help people really figure out what does matter most, let's make it easier for leaders, they got so much on their plate, how do we help them go, Hey, if I have limited time, how can I best support each person on my team? What's the one or two things I can really do that's going to make the biggest impact? And what's going to stop them from walking out the door because of this need isn't met. And it's really a top priority. That's not good. But I better know, what matters most to each person on my team. So we went how do we just make this really easy, because that's the thing leaders and managers always come back to us with, okay, we're told we need to go get to know our people have human conversations, and most great leaders care about their people. But I'm busy, we're all busy in the day to day grind? How do I just have a way to have this conversation that makes it easy that makes it effective and meaningful? And so that's why we went okay, let's develop algorithm. Let's figure out how we can bring this awareness and mindfulness to everybody for themselves in their work relationships, and for the people that they lead.

Okay, this is so important, especially as we are having more and more people work from home in that virtual environment where connection has been lost. And being able to really identify this, how tell us more about how one would take this assessment? How long does it take? And really, what are you hoping is, you know, kind of the the top things that somebody is going to take away about themselves, you shared, like the different areas. But what do you do once you take an assessment, so many of us have done it, it's like, that's interesting. And then we don't use it

being actionable was the number one thing that we kept coming back to when we were building this, because absolutely, I think assessments are amazing, because they help you get to know yourself better. And at the end of the day, it's not always easy to have that reflection. And do that even though it sounds like a simple thing. It really isn't always easy to do that. So to take the assessment, you can just go on our website, but anyone who purchases our book gets a free code, because again, we really want to be able to walk the reader and the person through their results. And really give them that in depth knowledge of their motives of their needs and how to be thinking about them and then actually meeting them. So the assessment is just 15 minutes doesn't take you too long. And then you get your motives met reports. And this is what really helps you to start putting insights into action. So we give you a great summary of each of these needs a way to start thinking about it. My favorite part of the report are the work wellness, reflection questions. They're really amazing questions that start to get your wheels turning about these needs in a way you probably haven't thought about them before.

You didn't get it. Can you give us an example of a work wellness question?

Absolutely. So future success, for example, is one of my top motives. One of the questions I love was so motivating and meaningful for me was, how do you need to show up as your future self today to create the future that you want? You don't get the future and then become the person you become the person now? What mindset do they have? What do they do? What don't they do? With the flexibility motive, like you said, that's a big thing. People are getting more flexibility when they work from home. Some people really struggle with honoring that because in a way you're always online. Your computer's at home, your office is at home. Flexibility is also one of my top motives. So one of the questions in there is, hey, how can you better use this motive to your advantage? How can you design your days in a way that you can take advantage of your flexibility if this is something you have? So it really just gets you to reflect on these needs in a way that again, women are busy day to day, like we're just not doing. So that's a really powerful part of the report.

And Kelly, when you're talking about you get this report. And how many pages is the report?

Well, it's an interactive online report, but it's about 40 pages.

Okay? So it's gonna take the person some time, but you actually have a program around helping people understand it, get get more of that attention to Hey, this is what this means, as you says it this interactive. Can you share more about that?

Yes. So we also have action tips in there, which again, is kind of like, Hey, your things you can really consider, we have a kind of health check in, where it's kind of like this motive is met when and it's not met? When so it's a great gut check to go is this need thriving? Is it suffering? Why is that? And then one of the amazing parts of the report that we hear time and time again, people love is we help you develop what we call your motive story, and develop your work life well lived action plan. So we all have a story behind these needs, why are they important? What are the strengths and struggles? You know, what is it about this motive that is so motivating to me at this season of my work life particularly. So when you develop your motive story, it's something that's really meant to be shared with others, it's great to share with the people you work with in the people in your life with your boss, because so many people around us are going to impact the degree these motives can be met. So developing that story, getting that clarity and sharing, it is awesome. And then the action plan really puts pen to paper and it says, Okay, what mindset do you need to have to meet this motive? Because meeting these needs happens in both action and thought? What are the beliefs that are maybe holding you back? What's the mindset that's maybe serving you? And just kind of even celebrating that and noticing that so you can continue on that path? What are the big to dues what are the tiny, small little habits, the small to dues. One example someone gave me that I still love to this day was a growth motive. And they went, Hey, I love reading these industry articles to help me grow in advance, and kind of be on the forefront of what's going on in my industry. But I always seem to bookmark them, and I never come back to them by date. It's so busy, and it's a small thing. But they decided every morning with their cup of coffee 10 minutes, and they are reading the articles. And at the end of the week, look how many they read and they go, it's a small thing can have a big impact on your motive. They're part of the action plan is your who's who is helping this motive who is harming this motive. And who could help elevate this motive, you know, who can help you get there faster? Who could be a mentor who could give you insight because we tend to jump to the how, how am I going to do this on my own when when we can identify who can help us do this faster, better, with more influence greater insight and expertise. It can open up great new doors, but it's just not usually where we jump to when it comes to overcoming challenges or looking for solutions.

So Kelly, there's a lot of people listening and that have teams. And what how do you do this, when you have a team? Where do you start, you said first you can get the book, and then you get to code. But I know that people are going to want to do this throughout their organization. So it's

really easy for us to set this up, we give you a whole awesome dashboard, and we send out the assessment to your team, you get a team report with all these insights. And its teams love seeing what motives rose to the top for their collective group. And again, after the assessment, doing a workshop sharing their motive story with one another. And again, we give leaders and managers for free this awesome discussion and activity guide that they could do on their own, or we love coming in and doing workshops and coaching around this stuff. It's super awesome, because your team doesn't get together to talk about all this stuff. And again, you're gonna learn so many amazing things about them, and develop an action plan to elevate all of these in your culture, which is so powerful. A big part of what we help people do is walk what we call our no BS pathway to well being, which is to understand be mindful of evaluate, communicate, and ultimately meet these motives. So it's five steps. But this pathway is not just for an individual. It's not about your relationships. It's not just about leaders in HR, it's about everybody. One of the key insights is that well being at work is CO created. Again the degree these needs are going to be met is going to be impacted by everybody. So it happens wellbeing happens when people show up for themselves and each other in meaningful ways to keep these motives healthy to honor protect and strengthen them. So as a leader, it's imperative that you get people to walk on this path with you to hold account ability and responsibility. Because of course, as a leader, you have huge influence that other people don't. But at the end of the day culture is about people what they think what they do and how they show up. So an amazing part of this is when you share this framework, and this path with your team, they start to have compassion for you. They go, Hey, I get it, it's tough, there are 28 of these needs, we all have different ones that rise to the top. And then some of these needs hold friction with each other, whether that's internally or externally. So it's not going to be perfect, it's going to be tough choices, it's going to be compromise, it's going to be really coming up with a strategy to make sure that you're optimizing the degree that these things can be strong, so that any

edits and what results are you seeing First off, does it? Do you have to have a certain size of a team? Can you do it with a very small team? Is this more mid size? What's the right size? And then what are the results?

You can do this with a team of three people, which we've done before we've even done a workshop with three people, you can do this with a very large team or department and again, in your company, it's amazing to be able to look at the high level results, and go okay, not only what motives are rising, the top, which ones are weak, which ones are strong. Why is that? So that's that evaluate step. And then a big part of what the assessment helps you do is it opens the door to the communication, because we find that motives are a missing conversation at work both for yourself and other people. So you need to make it the norm that this stuff is talked about. You need to make it not the exception, but something that happens where leaders are asking their employees about this stuff, or teams are talking about it. It's great to know what someone did over the weekend. It's great to know someone's an extrovert, what matters most to them at work? And how can I support that? That's the biggest question that everybody should be asking. And if leaders aren't having one on ones with their people about these, you're going to need to have exit interviews. Instead do stay interviews, and you won't need to be having those eggs in interviews.

is so good? Yes. Tell us about the research. This is so profound, so good.

Our research showed that in the last year, only 33% of 33% of people said that their leader never talked to them about their needs and job satisfaction. Never. And 31% and only once. So when you talk about retention, this is it. When your needs aren't met, you're going to be walking out the door.

But you know, Kelly, what you just said, I think is so important, because so many times we think, Oh, how's your dog? How you know, how was your weekend and it's very superficial. It's good, because it is part of the connection. But as you're saying, you could take it, you can take it so much deeper and more meaningful.

Yes. And one of the big things is a trust shows your employees you care. That is another piece of feedback. We've just heard of like, Hey, meet saying, I want to sit down with you for an hour and just to get you know, get to know you more as a human and hear about what you care about and chat about it that goes such a dang long way. And again, you're having more of these meaningful conversations, because you're it's great to say are you happy or unhappy at work? But if you ask better questions, you're gonna get better answers. And again, sometimes employees don't even really know I'm not doing so great. But I'm not even quite sure as to why. And now this gives all this clarity that you didn't have. And I just recently had one manager tell me, I always ask my team about their growth objectives and their advancement. I always ask them, Where do you want to go next? How can I help you grow? And I said, That is fantastic. That is so important. But I hate to break it to you growth is one of the 20 You're talking about the other 27. And guess what? Some people might not be in a growth spurt. Some people might not I grew a lot last year right now, other things are important to me, maybe I don't feel like I belong at work. Maybe I feel like I'm not doing work on his passionate about anymore. Maybe I'm really struggling with connection on the team or working remotely and just feeling like that human connection and that social interaction is missing. So you can talk to him about growth all day long. But if there are other needs aren't good, you are missing a huge opportunity.

Okay, so we're running out of time. I know you have the book work life well lived. And if you were to say you got one question you can answer on your book right now, what would that question be? And what would your answer be?

That I would that readers could answer for themselves?

Yeah, just something that you really would like, hey, Hillary, I got it. And before we go, I need to tell I need to share this. What would that be from the book?

What i constant We hear about people who take the assessment and the advanced readers who've read our book is that you, when you read this book, you feel empowered, empowered over your work life, over your work relationships, and over creating a true people first culture where your business thrives, and your culture thrives. You feel like you know what to do, you have tools, and you can make big strides moving forward, instead of just kind of feeling like, and I feel my work, life could be better. But I don't quite know what to do, or I know my culture, maybe it's okay, but I know it could be better. So that feeling of empowerment is a thread that runs through that we have just heard time and time again, from people who've interacted with motives, man.

Okay, and last but not least, you know, a tremendous amount about human need, you know about motives. What is your favorite product? What do you what would you say? What would you go out on the line right now and say, I love this. And I want to share this as well hit that like that gifting guide, I want to give this to you right now, what would that be? Well,

I'm a certified meditation teacher. meditation and mindfulness changed my whole life. That was a big part of my journey from ill being to well being and why really mindfulness and being mindful is one of the steps on the pathway. So for me, I have a lot of my meditations on insight, timer, it's my favorite app I use almost every day, because it's free. There are amazing teachers on there. And what I always tell people is you don't need to meditate every day to get the benefits. But meditation is what trains your mind to have the mindset in your life you want. It's not about being good at meditation, it's not even about being relaxed. When you meditate. It's about training your brain so that you can live the life you want to live outside of work. So I always promote that app, because it's a very modern approach, and just really easily accessible.

And you know what I find? When people first come in, they say, you know, oh, man, you know, meditation mindful, I just, I can't do it. I can't quiet my mind. As soon as they start to. They they become like mindful junkies, they can't get enough of it. You want more and more. So I love your suggestion. That is awesome. And Kelly, where can we find you? Where can we hear more? Where can we take your assessment? So

motivesmet.com is our website, you can learn all about the assessment, you can see our awesome framework on there that's just get it's colored and makes it really easy to grasp everything. We also have our book page on there where you can learn more about the book. And in terms of social media, I'm very active on LinkedIn. My Instagram is KellyMackin_motivesmet. And those are the big places where you can find me. That's

awesome. Again, motivesmet.com. Okay, everyone, go check it out, take the assessment. Share with us, come back, DM us, let us know how it went for you. And Kelly, again, thank you so much for putting all of this hard work into this. I know that there are so many people that are going to benefit from this teams that are going to thrive because you're giving them the next level of communication, which is so critical in today's world and business. So thank you again for being here.

Mold. Thank you. I love the work you do and the insight that you bring. It's so valuable. So I've had a great time chatting.

Well, it has been great. It's been great for everyone and remember everyone live now. Love now relaunch now. And part of that, as you heard is gaining clarity about you. So definitely go visit motivesmet.com And we'll be back next week. See you then.