Being Perfectly Imperfect - Tom Lipinski

TUCP Intro/Outro: Thank you for tuning in. You're listening to The Ultimate Coach podcast, a companion to the transformative book, The Ultimate Coach, written by Amy Hardison, and Alan D. Thompson. Each conversation is designed to be a powerful wake up call, reminding us of what's possible for you and your life. So if you're on a journey to expand your state of being, this podcast is for you.

Welcome to another episode of The Ultimate Coach podcast. I am one of your hosts, Meredith Bell. And today I'm really excited to welcome as one of my guests, Tom Lipinski. Tom, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you, Meredith. Excited to be here.

Well, I am so looking forward to our conversation, because you have this rich background of experiences, seemingly somewhat diverse, but they all interrelate. And I'm looking forward to bringing this to our listeners who are in this community that we call the being community who have studied the book, The Ultimate coach, and are looking at how to really be their best selves. And one of the things about Tom that I'd like to share before we get started, is Tom has a company called Everest performance coaching. And he's also not just involved in the ultimate coach community. He's been certified with Dr. Joe Dispenza, says, neuro change solutions. And he's also certified with Heart Math Institute. And some of our listeners, Tom may be familiar with those. And we'll look at how those are all interconnected. Because I think it's a fascinating, and I takes us deeper into this whole area of being. Let's start, though, with how you learned about the ultimate coach and got involved in this whole being movement.

All right, well, let's I'll make it short, but it goes back a little bit. So I've been coaching people since 2005. It started with landmark education. We'll talk about that maybe. Yeah, and I've been a real estate broker for 32 years now. So as I advanced in my real estate career, I got a coach, and then I became a coach. So around 2018, I think it was I started coaching real estate agents that I had, you know, up to, like 20 clients around the country. Then I put myself through some training at AIPAC, which is the Institute for professional excellence and coaching. And they had a Facebook page, just like the ultimate coach page. And there was a little exchange on there where some guy said, Hey, I need a book to read, what should I read? And the other guy said, Well, I think you should get the prosperous coach. You know, I read that book once a year. You know, so it's like, I was intrigued. I was this eavesdropping on the conversation, right? I was intrigued and ordered that book right away. And, you know, I got it as an audio book. And then I bought it as a paperback book. And I kept sharing, you know, Steve Chandler and rich Littman talked about Steve Hardison, Steve Hardison, the ultimate coach the ultimate coat. So I go, pull up my phone, and I look up the ultimate coach. And sure enough there Steve Hardison, and he's got a website, and I read testimonials, and it looks pretty exciting. And that was that and then I don't know if it was the same day or the next day. I got, I'm on Facebook right now, let me know as soon as you log into Facebook, you scroll down about an inch. And then it says, Do you know this person, you know, trying to, you know, build your network. And so obviously, Facebook's algorithm, you know, had some data mining going on and knew that I had been to that website and in the person that do I know, was Steve Hardison. You know, so I said, Well, I don't know Steve Hardison, but I want to know Him. So, you know, I'm about to click the button in a site. Oh, we have a mutual friend. So a friend's white coat sis. So, you know, I hit the button sent out their refund request. I think three minutes later Steve had accepted it. I contact Mike and Mike what's got to breakfast and have a conversation so we do that we any any brings me up to speed that he was just about to start coaching with Steve. He had been a longtime client of Chandler's and, you know, we just talked quite a bit about, you know, his experiences and I was just really interested in intrigued Did you know that I don't think it was on that at that breakfast, but sometime thereafter, when this to give you some timelines on it is about the time the books coming out? You know, I think matter of fact, I ordered it before it was out in, you know, it was like two weeks, and then Amazon sent it to me. Where I would say, this is like December of 21, when Mike tells me, hey, there's going to be this ultimate experience in, in Phoenix, you gotta go. And it's like, yeah, sounds like I want to be there. So I'm kind of the person that when something sounds good, I don't need to be convinced I just get excited and jump in. So I grabbed three friends. And I said, You guys are going with me to Phoenix. And he goes, Okay, so they were the same way. And we we booked a flight. And I think it was January 23 of 22. We booked a flight and flew out in the morning, whatever the ultimate experience, went out and had dinner and then flew back on the same day. You know, and so that was my experience my initial experiences with the ultimate coat. So it started with, you know, really the prosperous coach by Chandler and Litvin, and it morphed into what it is right now.

Such a great story, I think so many of us learned about Steve Hardison through one of Steve Chandler's books, because he writes artists and and just about every one of them, that certainly was true for me, also. And I think now you're quite active in the book reading group. Is that right? Are you noticed regularly? Yeah,

I rain Warren woods, she was running or moderating the vet invited me, you know, she used this really tricky. Strategies is a Tom, I really like your voice. Will you be a book reader? And it's like, oh, somebody likes my voice. Sure. I'll be a book reader. So. So I said, Yes. And I hadn't even been to a book reading at that point, I don't think but after after reading, and then you know, seeing how how that that holy that happened, I just started showing up to every Wednesday book reading, I can't go to the Sunday ones because I hike with friends every Sunday morning. But on Wednesday, I would go and then, you know, rain, turned over the rain, rain turned over the reins to Tanya. And Tanya asked me to be part of the team. And I said yes. And now this is my second year on the team. And just a great experience being on that tea by well, but the

I'm curious what some of the biggest takeaways have been for you, as you hear the book come to life, as it's being read. And then of course, people who attend share some of the insights they've gotten personal experiences they've had. So with your exposure to those book readings over all these times, what were some of the big insights or, or takeaways that you could say that you've had? Well,

You know, last year, which was our third season, you know, I was part of a team, and will yield moderated every now and then, and I can't moderate all the time, but I moderated a bit, you know, and Steve was in the room every single time. You know, and so it was kind of cool. It was almost like it was like almost like a coaching session, because, you know, Steve would talk, you know, at least two different times. And he'd always have an amazing meal, something to teach, you know, things that come to mind right now are, you know, we're always creating, we're never not creating, you know, a lot on acknowledgment. And I also got a lot on acknowledgement, when I was at the ultimate experience from Steve, you know, and then, you know, experiencing loves, you know, what that was all about when he would talk about Amy. And then but I tell you, the biggest reason I love the book reading is, you know, I read the book, of course, a few times and Powell, you know, kind of edit into it for probably a fourth or fifth time, I don't know. And so it's not so much the reading, as it is what happens after the meeting. You know, so the person who read the back of the book will go first with, you know, whatever, come up for them, and it'll be about themselves. We really go out of our way to make sure they don't talk about others and acknowledge people that talk about themselves based on that reading or the back cover, you know, then the next one up, we'll be the person who read the before you begin. And then whether there's one or two or three, you know, readers of chapters in vignettes they'll go and it's you know, just always amazing things that come out of that. And then the shares that follow after those, you know, usually 1010 shares will usually happen, I love to see all the growth, you know, so it's like I've grown a lot, personally by being in the ultimate coach group, I would say like, emotionally intelligent intelligence might be a big one. But I've also watched, you know, by my peers in there, you know, I, I want to name names, but at the same time, I probably miss somebody who's grown hugely, but I loves the team that I'm on. They love me. And we just have this, you know, this great synergy and experience with one another. So that's, so it's kind of like, it's not a simple answer, like sharing one person read, but it's the whole experience of growth in the world of being

Well, speaking of the world of being, you know, landmark is a key element that influenced Steve, in the ultimate coach book, The chapters about that, and I'm just curious, thinking about your own journey in being and you were you not only participated in landmark programs you taught them. So I would love for you to share a bit about what were some of the biggest takeaways for you from that whole landmark experience?

Yeah, and I still take away from it. So it was 2005, I did my four on the end, you know, it's Friday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and a Tuesday. And on that Monday, I felt like I was punched in the face, you know, because it's like, you know, my integrity got uncovered, or my lack of integrity got uncovered, I guess you could say, and, you know, it was a hard event for me feel and, and I, you know, there's other courses, you take the advanced course, and there's seminars, but then I landed in the self expression, a leadership program. And so I never was a trainer in there, I was always a coat. So I think I did the self expression Leadership Program eight or nine times. And you'd always have about four or five or six participants that you'd be coaching throughout the course, it's like almost like a six month course, about five months, five, or six. And then that I was a head coach quite a few times, where I'm coaching the coaches who are coaching five or six people. And what I got out of landmark is a deep understanding of what it is to be your word, and what it is to honor your work. And we're not always going to be our word, we're human. Okay, now, I'm way My Word today than I was back then. But even today, I'll be out of integrity. But I do know how to honor my, you know, so, so honoring. So when you're out of integrity, you know, all there is to do is, is to declare, yeah, I'm out of integrity, whatever it is, you know, and then get the impacts, there's always impacts. And usually people slough off the impacts, but the impacts are a big deal. So you got to get all the impacts, but others on you, there's always a lot of them. And a lot of one, you you might get away with something, but you don't with yourself, right? You know, so there are a lot of impacts. And then I learned never to give a reason for anything. It's like, you're either in integrity, or you're out if you're out, just declare it, you know, get the impacts and then recommit. Okay, if I give reasons, like, you know, I'm late today, because of the snow, I gave all my power away to the snow, and I'd rather you know, just acknowledge I'm late, I'm not committed to be late, and here's what I'm gonna do, then get the impacts of being late and then here's what I'm going to do to honor my word and commit to being on time. So that's just an example of it. But you know, landmark was huge for me for that. And then the next great part or great teaching for me was you know about possibility. So, in landmark there's two distinctions while there's 100 and some distinctions but two big ones the foundational ones are enrollment registration you know, people have a hard time with what's enrollment what's registration and and what you know, you learn and that enrollment is you know, sharing something you got with someone else such that they're touched moved to the inspired by that share, and that it makes it more real for you and and and and it causes possibility in your life so so I you know, if I'm going to sell up landmark to a few things, I mean, I wasn't necessarily thinking about it today, but for sure its integrity. Honoring Your Word, cleaning up messes. You know, Landmark has a few distinctions, too called rackets you No, understanding what that is all about, and then about possibility. So, so landmark started me on my journey, you know, I don't know what my age was, at the time, you know, models almost 20 years ago. So I'd be 45 You know, I've always been interested in what makes a person tick, what makes me tick. You know, I remember, you know, being, you know, maybe 19, or 20, and subscribing to Psychology Today magazine, when all my friends had Sports Illustrated, right. You know, I was always wanting to know what was going on up there. You know, and so reading a lot, you know, up until landmark, and then landmark was like this big, heavy dose of, of integrity, foundational integrity and possibility, you know, and then, you know, through my coaching journey through up to today, you know, it's just, you know, it's like I, the last two years have been just, you know, I've lived a lot of lifetimes in the last two years. So they've been been amazing for me.

But one of that places I'd love to go is related to a post that I read of yours on Facebook. And it was around perfectionism. It was so powerful, the insights that you've shared around that, and I would love for you to just tell the story that you told in that post, because I think there's so many lessons to it. And it ties in with the certification you went through with Dr. Joe Dispenza.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. And actually, I've been doing work on that even today. So what you're referring to is the post that has the Kintsugi pottery, which is the Japanese, you know, when I would drip I dropped a ceramic bowl, it's like it's in the garbage, right? But Kintsugi pottery is pick up the pieces, use lacquer and gold in most cases, and put it back together, you know, and have a one of a kind, priceless piece. So how this became important to me, I was well, I'll go back to, you know, when I was being trained in neural chain solutions with Dr. Joe, I had to do a presentation to Dr. Joe in front of my 7170 other peers. And I was so about doing it perfectly. And word for word that I was memorizing, but not getting the concept. You know, so I was giving my presentation, I got about halfway through, and then my high beta brainwaves kicked in, and I just lost it and I couldn't, I couldn't, you know, catch myself where I was at, you know, and then I start sweating. And, you know, and then you know, I fumbled around, I finished it, then it's time for Dr. Joe to, to, you know, do his coaching, and he's not just coaching me, he's coaching the whole room, and, you know, got a lot of really good stuff out of that. So that was a example of me, being you know, striving for perfection, you know, and it got in the way of life. So, fast forward about a year later on being a man HeartMath resilience, advantage training to be able to teach that class, you know, under the HeartMath banner, you know, and we're doing Teach backs where we have to teach our peers parts of the course, you know, on it's like, me and the facilitator, the leader of the training, had a conversation that it was about perfection. Then I told him that, you know, I'm not going to approach this to be perfect. I'm going to approach this to be perfectly imperfect, you know, and then he said, Well, that's like, Kintsugi pottery, you know? And I said, Well, what's that? He told me and I looked it up. And it's like, you know what, I love the concept of Kintsugi pottery, because it's like work. Every one of us is broken in some way. But we're also amazing and beautiful, and in so many other ways, right? So it's like, pick up the pieces, and put yourself together and be this. You know, amazing one of a kind individual dislike to consume. The pottery is one of a kind piece of art. No. So that was the that was the distinction. Right?

One of the things you stated though, is what your definition or perception of what perfectionism is really all about.

You might have to give me a little shove there. I mean, sure.

Well, this whole thing of a desire to look good. Oh,

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's the work I've been doing that was doing even today so so if you don't mind, I'm gonna I'm gonna go way back to four year old town. Yes, I would love that. So, you know, until you're the you know, age of seven, six or seven. You're your function. Being in a theta brainwave pattern, which is a hypnotic brainwave state, then you're suggestible in that state. And suggestibility means you accept, believe and surrender to information, you know, without analyzing it, you know, so as a four year old, you know, along by parents, they were doing their very best, but, you know, kids were meant to be seen in that hurt. And in, you know, at all my grandparents were from Poland, and, you know, everybody spoke Polish around the house, you know, and, and the Polish, you know, at that time, when they lived in Poland, it was a hard life, you know, it was a poor country, they had to work really hard, or what little they had, they had to be happy with it. So and then I can even go back further is that when I was born, my mom had a couple of years of postpartum depression. So, so she's struggling right to to survive and not able to provide the nurturing that, you know, I was craving as an infant, right. And I don't remember this, but you know, my sister was around and told me all about it. So, so I, I'm Pete, so as I'm piecing this all together, you know, I created flawed, you know, I created not good enough, I created unworthy, and then I took it into my adult life, which is what most people do, right? You know, everybody lives through that age of theta brainwave states, right? So, in the Consu, ghee, pottery, you know, it's like, now I realize that was all made up, you know, I am perfect with the way exactly the way I am and exactly the way I'm not, and everyone else is perfect as the way they are in the way they're not. You know, and I don't have to, you know, put people up on a pedestal and be separate, separate from them. You know, because there's a tendency for me to look at Steve Hardison and say, Steve is up on this pedestal that I'm not there, or, you know, Steve Chandler, or, you know, a lots of other people. And it's like, not, they've had great experiences, they're really good at what they're what they do, I shouldn't be happy for that. I should love them for that. And not be comparing or separating myself. You know, and I just shut down myself quite a bit there. But I missed that. Yeah, you know, and I, I do everything I can to not do it. But as I'm doing it, it's coming out. But you know, it really to answer your question, you know, it's like, I am perfect as I am. And I don't need to compare. There's no, there's no reason to compare. Alright? Just be just be you be Tom. And that's really what I love about the ultimate coach group is, you know, we're all we're all we're doing is like, be the best expression of yourself for yourself. Don't be it for anybody else, be it for you.

That's so, so true. And you had mentioned this, going back to the four year old Tom multiple times, because I think when we're willing to do that, as we examine beliefs, we have thoughts we have about ourselves or other people, if we're willing to explore where did that come from? It can just help us, I think, forgive ourselves and be less judgmental of ourselves and of others. Have you found that to be the case? Oh, yeah.

Wow, just a lot of stuff's coming in right now. So use the word forgiveness. That is a huge part of this whole piece here. And that's also a huge lesson. You know, from Stephen, the book reading days, when he was there every day, this he would talk about that. But yeah, I mean, that I kind of feel like I want to talk about my document. No,

that's alright. Because it makes sense that that would be a natural next step, because the forgiveness piece precedes, or it's most effective, I think, Well, for me,

It's like, you know, being unworthy or being flawed, or, you know, all of that, right. You know, and then and identifying it all the way back to four years old. It's like, what good does that do? I mean, it's good to have that insight. And it's good to have that out understanding, but I'm not living in the past. I'm not really living in the future. I'm living right now with me and you talking here. You know, I'm in the present moment. You know, so what governs the present moment? Well, if I'm on autopilot, then it's the past, but I'm in creation, and conscious that is right now. So, you know, the document has been huge for me in my life. And the way it started for me, you know, of course, reading the book. He read it many times. That's probably the Chapter have read the most, you know that I've helped a lot of like the people I coach, you know, they all have documents. And for me, it's, you know, I was, well, I had gone to the ultimate experience, that a week later, I met my first Dr. Joe retreat in Cancun. So, I got a heavy dose of ontological or the state or nature of being with the ultimate experience of that spin, continuing, you know, and then I got a heavy dose of the science of being, you know, the doctor job work, you know, so, so having a document started, you know, actually in Cancun? You know, I would I take a lot, I do a lot of journaling, handwritten journaling, and journaling in my phone, and I would just write down things that, you know, I really liked, you know, and I stole a lot of things for people, you know, it's like, I know, Steve is, you know, something about nobody's worthy, worth his judgments, you know, and it's like, Hey, I liked it. So I wrote down judgment, you know, and I had a list of about 20, or 30, you know, topics. And then from there, it was really easy to create the document. And I did create it, and I've changed it one, you know, make little tweaks to it. And in that I did make a not a big change, but added about three or four statements to it took away three or four statements to it about three or four months ago. And I create myself, like, every day I wake up, and it's, shortly after I wake up, I recite my document, you know, and I make sure I never miss and I haven't completely a memory, but I'll have it handwritten will be on my pillow, when I go to bed. So I recite it when I go to bed, when that I put it on the railing going downstairs. So when I wake up in the morning, I can't go downstairs without hopes I didn't recite my documents. So I make sure I do it morning and night. And then in the middle of the day, I might recite it once or twice, four pieces of it. You know, so learning about four year old time is great. You know, but, you know, I'm not living in the past. I'm living at that now. So how am I gonna create myself now? And that's what the document is all about. And, you know, I watched JP Morgan train that, I think could find videos on in the ultimate coach book on ultimate coach page, you know, and it's like, those really, really good, you know, and so between, you know, Steve, the book, JP, Eric, you know, I really feel like I've got a really good sense of the document. And it does guide me, you know, so

I was just gonna ask you what the impact is, on your day, when you create yourself from your document each morning? How does that impact who you're being throughout? Yeah,

It ties right into the integrity piece. Right? And there are some times I call them document violations, you know, I've said that to people and they don't like, so I've had some people say, Oh, that's too strong of a word. But it's when I call it, you know, on it might be where, you know, there's, you know, probably the biggest one I violate would be, you know, I have a statement to say, there's no space for judgment or gossip in my life. By recognizing all my gossips and their judgments of gossip, shunyata truth, I sat on the side creating love and magnificence. Well, I do find myself judging me and I occasionally find myself gossiping, you know, so I will, you know, often pull myself out of that situation, and, you know, have a little conversation with myself, like, what am I committed to? So, it has a lot to do with my life and it and it is, it's something that takes a little while to build on to so like anybody that's new with a document, you know, people sometimes struggle creating the document, you know, and there's no right or wrong document because we all have one whether we write it down or not recite it or not. We all have one right. Thank you, Steve. And you know, I'll just be present to the creation that's in my document and I don't know if I answered your question there but yeah, it Oh, I know I was going out is that people that are new, you know, might have a harder time you know, like living the document but I think the key is to just recite it you know, and recognize when you're not it, you know, clean it up, put it back recommit. You know, we keep cleaning keep recommitting cleaning, we committing and then you'll find that you're going to be in integrity a good part of your day.

All I love that I agree with you, it's becoming so familiar with what your document says. And I do find that often I'll adopt one particular statement that I'm, you know, thinking about and really looking at, how am I being that in this moment? And how can I be that in this situation that's coming up. So it's that continuous creation. And that whole concept, I guess I kind of understood it. But the idea that we have this power, this ability to create ourselves at any given moment, like you say, if you catch yourself not being in integrity with one of your declarations, you can clean it up instantly, that it's not something you have to keep, you know, reminding yourself of how you were out of integrity, or, you know, judging, because I think judging and I know, Steve has said this, too, it's human nature to judge. It's becoming aware and catching ourselves. Yeah, when we see ourselves being that and making a different choice.

Yeah, let me add this to me, because it just popped in. You know, when, you know, in landmark, there's a one other distinction is there's nothing wrong. You know, so I look at my clients, I look at my family, I look at my friends, and in my head, there is a, it's impossible for them to do anything wrong. It's, it's not even, you know, they're just going to do what they do. And I don't want to put right or wrong on. So when I'm out of integrity, there's nothing wrong. Or if somebody's else's out of integrity is nothing wrong, there's just out of integrity, and there's just an there's an impact, or an effect, you know, but there's nothing wrong. And then when you put it back into place, you gotta go the same way. There's nothing right? You know, there's just workability. So there's either a lack of workability, or there's workability. You know, so I really tried to stay in the world of not having these polarities of good, bad, right, wrong. There's just integrity. And just my word, it simplifies

Things so much, doesn't it to your notes, you have that approach. And, and I think that's really a key aspect of being, you know, we can complicate things. It simply, and I love the phrase of where do I want to come from? Or where am I coming from, as opposed to aspiring to get to? It's a place to come from? Is that how you use your document and your statements?

Yeah, it's not, it's, you know, I hadn't thought of it that way. But it's yeah, it's not a place to go to it's, it's your being in the moment. It's a place it's placed to come from or a place to be right now? Not in 10 minutes, not five minutes ago, it's right now be? So yeah, you know, doctor in the Dr. Joe work, and I mean, this is it, this is this is all over the place, but we talk about the past and the past is just, you know, it's just memories that are tattooed in your neocortex. Right? You know, it's a reflection of everything you've learned and experienced, right. But you know, and then when you predict a future, you know, it's often just based on what you already know, in the past. So the past is familiar, a no, in the future is, is, you know, familiar based on the past, right? It's predictable based on the past, but when you're in the present moment, it's completely unknown. And that's where, you know, surprises and miracles come from, so I know that if I am in the present moment with you, or with people, with myself, things, you know, things are going to happen that are going to be amazing. And they might be little miracles, big miracles, who knows, you know, but if I'm, you know, planning something way out in the future, you know, and I'm not talking about vacations or trips, but you know, who I'm gonna be, you know, or looking at the past that doesn't serve anything. It's like it's it's a right now experience.

Yeah, that precious present moment. Yeah. That we often lose, because our minds are thinking about something that happened before, or anticipating in a worrisome way, something that may never happen, but we're afraid might happen. So it's, it serves us so well to focus on right now. In fact, that's one of my favorite Steve Chandler books right now. You don't have and of course, he gives the partisan example So in that book about, okay, why What are you going to wait for? Just do it now call this person set up that appointment? You know, do it right now. Yep, exactly. One of the other things, Tom, that you mentioned in our earlier conversation that I loved, was you, I think you were giving credit to Jim Klein, who questions in the back of the book? And then in the introduction section, you know, who do I need to be? And share that insight that he had? And why you? I think it was very powerful. Yeah,

Yeah. Jim, James, James Klein, thank you for this. So, you know, when you're coaching B, you know, I coach, mostly real estate agents. So they, you know, what does that mean? Tom? What is being me? You know, so I can't explain it really well now. And it always leads to a document, right. But, you know, if you read the back cover of the book, or you know, or the first three pages, you know, it's like, who am I being to be an effective parent? Or who am I being to be a great friend, or, you know, and it's like, people like, well, what does that mean? It's like, Well, James, is in Toastmasters. And he sent me a video, I think he actually thinking posted in the group. So it's probably in the group, you'd have to look up James and probably scroll down. You know, he gave this amazing talk. And I'm like, wow, James, you're doing pretty darn good there. But he said, the answer to the question, the answer to the question is in the question, you know, so who are you being? To be a great parent? Is the answers right there? You know, and you just expand on it a little bit? Well, what would a great parent do? Right? You know, they're going to be good listeners, they're going to, you know, they're going to spend their time in the present moment with their kids. You know, so, so the, so James taught me that the answer to the being questions, is in the question. And it just takes that little teeny piece, you know, then since he presented that I've shared that so many times with people and they always go, Oh, I get it now. So there was a good little, little video that I watched.

That really is, because that's true of any any question that we might want to ask ourselves, ask ourselves, it's right there. And it's a matter of giving it some thought, and taking time really to listen to ourselves? Because we know the answer, right? Like you just said, we know what a good parent looks like, we know what whatever it is, we are envisioning ourselves to be, we really know already. What that looks like. It's, there's this hesitation, as I'm thinking about a variety of ones, there can be resistance internally, to wanting to acknowledge that's what's required, because that's what we're not wanting to do. Right? That's where we're coming up with saying, No, I don't want to look at that, or I don't want to have to do that. If that's what that means. I think of Chandler saying, you know, I really like sales. But because of what he thought it meant to be effective in sales, and I think that's where we can get into issues with ourselves is our perceptions of something. And we think that's reality, or that's the truth.

Yeah, a little way of looking at it. And when people are resistant, or they don't want to answer the question of their ego will let them answer the question. That's where a good coach can come in, you know, and ask something really powerful in the moment, you know, cause a major breakthrough for that person or an evolutionary step for that person. You know, so, so yeah, you know, that just got to be present to behold important listening is to,

yes, listening, that chapter on listening, I was able to read that to the group to n, and that, to me is such a powerful chapter, because it's so much more than what we typically define as listening, you know, to be fully present and pick up what's not being said. As well as what is being said, Tom, is we kind of move towards wrapping up our conversation here. Is there anything else that's coming to you that you would like to share with listeners around any aspect of, of being?

Well, practice it? You know, that's a big one. You know, it's like, whatever document you have, no, there's no perfect document. Let me just a document. You know, so, yeah, start somewhere and practice it. You know, I guess, you know, in the book, the way the book is written and looking at it right here, you know, it's, you can pick it up and go to any chapter, you don't have to read it linear, you know, then get something out of it for your day. You know, so, and Steve's curious, you know, so many people I know are curious, Mike is, well, coach, this is a curious person, I'm a curious person. You know, it's like, I think, being curious of how things work and how the brain functions and what what are people saying, and, and, you know, how can I be in the present moment, those would be things that you could do is to, is to be curious, and to learn. And it's like, reading, you know, when I was young, you know, I read magazines, like I said, No, Psychology Today, but I wasn't, I probably read a book a year, you know, now. Um, so I'm probably at 30 bucks a year, or maybe even more, I got a lot of books going all the time. And sometimes I go halfway through, and I stop and then pick it up a year later. But, you know, it's like being curious, learning, listening. You know, I get so much from people to, you know, there's, there's people in the ultimate coach, team talk in deep talk, our book reading group, I learned so much from, you know, so yeah, it's curious, listening, consciously creating what you can learn today.

Listen, I love that you brought up Darius, because I think that serves us so well, and helps us move from that judgment piece. Because if we can stay in that curious, then we're asking questions we're learning, as opposed to having to have some kind of definitive answer or circling back to this idea of we have to be perfect, we got to get it right. Instead of that, just saying, I'm going to continuous learning mode, you know, I'm not finished yet. And so it's okay, if I don't get this, right. Because that's a learning opportunity out. So,

You know, there's a distinction, and I believe I've heard it from a lot of people, I believe Steve said it, Dr. Joe has said it, you know, and that Master is that somebody who's gotten to a certain place, that they're just always learning, they're never not learning. You know, and, you know, Dr. Joe Dispenza, is that I mean, he is forever learning. And, you know, I've, you know, if you just see him every now then you might say, He's the same guy. I've been around him quite a bit over the last two years. You know, and she's evolved, you know, and that's Dr. Joe. And I'm gonna say, and then Steve, you know, he just recently declared soon as he came off as December, sabbatical from Facebook, right, said what he wants to clean up in his life. And, you know, I don't know if it was cleaned up, but it was work on maybe, you know, and, and it was kind of around integrity pieces, I think, for himself, things were See, saw some opportunities, I guess he should probably talk about it more than me. But you know, I definitely when I read that, it's like any Steve's evolving, we're always evolving, everybody's equal. Right? So keep evolving. Don't stop.

I love that. I think that's a wonderful place to wrap up, Tom, because I think you're evidence of that just looking at your own journey, and all the different areas that you have studied, and has been certified because you see the value in learning this material in a deeper way. said to me, you're a great example of what you were just describing there in your, you know, final comments around curiosity, the learning and continuing to constantly grow. So it when we look at ourselves that way, then it can become exciting to look at what might tomorrow bring that allows me an opportunity to grow and learn, as opposed to ever seeing something as a failure or a setback. It's, and that's why I have come to love the word possibility in the way that it's used within this community, because I hadn't thought of it that way. Consider this as a possibility. It opens the mind to play with new ways of thinking and new ways of being.

Right. You know, in deep talk, we always are talking about possibility and the time yet Alvarez knew what's what's possible. You know, or as a possibility, could we, you know, so yeah, that's that's huge. And you know, I do want to thank you, you know, we've been Facebook friends for it'll be a year right? You know, one of us reached out to, you know, but this is our first kind of second conversation right now. And I want to, you know, thank you for the coop, how gracious you are in, you know, being with me, you know. So I really appreciate that. And I look forward to more conversations and developing our friendship.

Lead to Tom, thank you so much for joining me today. And I look forward to watching your continued growth and expansion is we're on this journey together, right.

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