Deepening Awareness Of Yourself And Others - Jim Wilcher

TUCP Intro/Outro: Thank you for tuning in to The Ultimate Coach podcast, a companion to the transformative book, The Ultimate Coach, written by Amy Hardison, and Alan D. Thompson. Each conversation is designed to be a powerful wake up call, reminding us of what's possible for you and your life. So if you're on a journey to expand your state of being, this podcast is for you.

Welcome to another episode of The Ultimate Coach Podcast. I'm Meredith Bell, one of your hosts. And I'm delighted to have as my guest today, Jim Wilcher, welcome to the show, Jim.

Hi, America, thank you for inviting me to have this conversation with you.

I know is going to be very special for our listeners. And to set the context I want to give them a little bit of information about your background and also what you're doing today. I think that'll lead in nicely to some of the things that I know we want to discuss today. Jim is a seasoned advisor and coach with a colorful past. With a career spanning over three decades he's been the architect behind marketing triumphs for global giants like Apple AT and T DHL, IBM and Microsoft crafting success stories in LA and Seattle. But Jim's journey was it without its trials. In 2003, his Seattle agency teetered on the brink of collapse, prompting 15 years of introspection, and personal growth, Jim emerged not just as a coach, but as a beacon of insight and resilience. Today, Jim is dedicated to guiding CEOs and executive teams to achieve peak performance, foster well being and cultivate harmonious work life balance. So Jim, of course, the curiosity comes in with this period of time when things didn't go so well for you. And I would really like to explore that initially, if you could tell us about that story of what happened and what you learned over those years of introspection.

Yeah, thanks for that question. It's a story that I like to tell because I like to remind myself, and I like to remind myself of my vulnerability as a human being. And the lesson I learned from what occurred in my life, yeah, I found that I was pretty good at visual arts and communication and brought that into my as the business that I would develop. And I went to school in LA. And when I graduated a couple years out, after working for somebody else, I created my own business, it was just a freedom. I was a freelancer. And then I developed a partnership with somebody I went to school with, who was just getting into desktop computers. And we together pioneered a lot along with other people, many others, the whole desktop revolution for communication design, and which then led us into working with CD ROM and then interactive structures, and poised right at the edge at the perfect time for the internet. And so this was a real riding of the wave. With this changeover, a big change in the industry and developed business in LA, with my partner sold that my partner moved back to Seattle. My heart was in Seattle, my wife, who was my fiancee at the time, we wanted to have kids and we thought, you know that it was pretty rough in LA in the 80s. It was a lot of victimizing. So we moved to Seattle and started up business, a new and it built it up over 20 years. And it was just going great. We were small, and then we got a little bigger, and then we got bigger clients and then we got bigger space. And then we went downtown Seattle and got bigger, nicer space. And we're in the agency district and, you know, big clients and great employees, employees we loved and a great culture. And everything was really going well. But I found myself in the corner office overlooking the Puget Sound at night late at night with these very boats, like looking like chandeliers floating across the Puget Sound gorgeous couldn't ask Are anything more, right. But I could hear myself audibly starting to say, I hate this. Because I was still at work. I was the only one still there, because I had to feed the engine. And there was something a little off. So at one point, I went home late, my family was in bed. And there was a CD ROM on the CD player. And I said, Girls Just Want to Have Fun. I plug that in. And it was pictures of my daughters with their nanny. My wife and I both worked. And we spent an hour commuting each way. And a lot of time where and it was all these pictures of my daughter to the song Cyndi Lauper song. Girls Just Want to Have Fun. And I broke down and bought. I mean, I really lost it. I was I got, I don't even know my girls. What is the price I'm paying here? Now that's the setup, because it wasn't long afterwards, there was an answer. And the answer came in the form of one plot big client going dark on us, later turned out they were being purchased by a bigger company. And then another company, National Bank went belly up. So all of a sudden, we had a huge overhead, and very little income coming in the business as a physical structure imploded. It literally imploded. And we went virtual, I had to let people go is very tough. But what really was tough, is what also imploded. And that was my ego. I didn't really realize what it was. But it was just a vacuum and emptiness, a hollowness. It was beyond burnout, it was an I was still running the business, virtually. But it was so difficult for me to even do the work, I had to have music on. If I didn't have music, I could not do the work. And that went for about two years, I was just absolutely miserable. And there was a repeating pattern in my head of thoughts. You're a failure, you didn't do this, you should have done that. And I couldn't turn it off. So at some point, I don't know when it was about two years after that, something happened and everything quieted in my mind. It just went quiet. And I would find myself standing in the kitchen, just standing there for maybe two minutes before I realized. And I was just standing in this bliss of presence. Something happened to me and I couldn't explain it. And that was the start of a journey that I took for the next. And it's still on 15 years ago, I started it. And I started meditating. And in the meditation, I learned what what this thing that had occurred to me was this presence and the power of it. And that that power of presence turned into a long term, study and practice that where I deconstructed everything inside of me over time through journaling and meditation, to deconstruct the conditioning, they had set up all the issues that created and supported the ego, the identity, I had identified myself with the company, as myself, and the company as myself was the problem. That was my purpose. My purpose was this, the value of me was tied to the success of the company. And when it went away my value in a way I had to rebuild myself. And so this is where the creation came in. And and being we talk about creation a lot. I didn't know that I didn't have that word. But that's what I was doing. And I was rebuilt kind of blank went to a blank slate. Now the blank to get to the blank slate, I had to forgive myself, I had to do a lot of self forgiveness. And I also went through and did a lot of forgiveness in family and friendships and different things. It was all mostly internally and in my journal, and that cleared the slate. I put things in the past and then I developed a blank slate to start building off of. Now what came out of that is one year assault was little more than a year that I journaled my highest intention. And what came out of that after a year was two things actually two things I'm also an artist so I'm have an art practice and I'm a sculptor, and so as to impact the world through my art, but, but even more so impact the world through my ability to work with people To share with them a similar kind of process to be able to move out of self focused identity and ego driven, only identity. And to open that up, to see that we actually aren't the fiction of our identity, were much more than that. And without the fiction of our identity holding us back, we can create things that are really purposeful to us. And when we're purposely driven, we're inspired. And we're inspired. We can do beautiful things, and serve the world for a better purpose. That's really what came out of this is that inward me focus, got flipped, turned inside out, and became the outward, me serving. And that showed up in all friendships and family and many, many things. And then, Judy Thurston, who is the grandmother she calls herself of the being movement, I guess that would make Eric Baum, the grandfather, because he, he's also very instrumental. But she was telling me about this guy that she met and rode in a car from Arizona to LA or one way or the other, and had like six hour ride with this guy named Steve Hardison, and he's really amazing. And, and, and then he's got this book coming out. And she's saying, I'm going to, I told Steve, I wanted to do a launch for his book, Steve said, No, I don't want to launch for my book. And she said, Well, I want to do it. And so anyway, the story goes, she did it. And that was the first being event a couple of years ago in Arizona, the launch of Steve's book, everything that we're talking about, and all your podcasts and all the people online and sharing stories and doing beautiful things together, are a result of that. While we would get together,

Let me pause before we go further into that, I want to not lose some of that the key nuggets that I think are in your story. And to me, one of them is the fact that you really went deep. After all these things happened. And you recognized your role. You it sounds to me, like you, you took responsibility for what happened, as you went through this process of digging deeper and identifying, you know, who you really were in, and where things, you know, went off the rails there, as a business owner myself, I could identify with some of the challenges that you faced as we've had ups and downs over the decades. And I just know that it took a lot of courage for you to do that not give up. You know, there's that initial feeling bad about how things turned out. And then realizing as you did over time, they really worked for your benefit. Because of all the lessons you extracted from their the digging you did to discover, you know who you really are, and what your capabilities are that led to you're creating this beautiful purpose and intention that you're now living out with your clients. But before we jump into the work you're doing with your clients, let's go back to your, your sharing of the launch of the ultimate coach, but because it's all tied together.

Yes it is. Thank you. Yeah, that's a great consolidation, married up by I'm sure, it's a story that, you know, you hear about burnout so much. So I'm sure it's a story that many people can relate to, just as you said, you can with the challenges of business. And so never give up, right? I mean, there's always a way through, and it may be a beautiful gift, like it was for me. And I will just say that in terms of the the gift is that I went virtual, and I worked at home and I got to watch my girls and be with my girls growing up. So Girls Just Want to Have Fun. And daddy just wants to have fun with them, I think was the new theme. But just going back to Judy, she's just such a lovely person. And, and her husband, Eric loved him so much. And so I married her sister, and we get together at Christmas, usually not every year, but we had the last few years and, and December. We talked and I said you know as kind of in between. I'm not sure what I'm gonna really exactly gonna be doing next. And she said, Well, you know, there's this guy, my coach, and he has this program and it starts January 12. And this is like December. I'm an old 20th or something. And she said I'll send you the information. So this person was rich habits, her coaches rich habits, and rich habits is just this, I came to learn this amazing man, and fabulous coach. And he has a program called being a trusted advisor that I went through. And I ended up working with Steve, excuse me with rich all year. And it was just transformational. I realized at one point that this is the thing that I didn't know that I was looking for. But of course, Judy and her all knowing infinite wisdom, knew before I knew, and I say the same thing really with rich, he even knew before I knew, because I was just putting my toes in the water at first. And Rich has a way of coaching in which it's osmotic. In other words, like by osmosis in a way, almost, it's just like we're hanging out and talking. And sure he's sharing all kinds of nuggets, but something just happens. And it's really quite magical. I can't explain it except to say that it is being right. It is his being. And I always ask, well, what is, you know, I had asked him a few times what is being hidden there answer that question, because the answer the question would be limited. And I realized that Ah, okay. And so what he really allowed Is he allowed the space, and he believed he took a stand for me, and he believed in my inner source of bringing out and revealing what being is for me. So this led to me meeting and saying, oh, yeah, okay, I think this is right. For me. There's all kinds of coaching, there's, there's life coaching, different kinds of coaching. But business really made sense to me, because that has been my my world for a very long time. And it wasn't with out a lot of confusion. And it wasn't without a lot of questioning, and even some doubts from time to time. But then, when I decided, it was like, Yeah, this makes sense. This makes sense. Because I always worked with my clients of developing a brand, it was off, I would tell people, I've told people for 30 years, when I work with a client like that, Neal, a leader or a marketing director, or something, it's basically the first thing we need to do is got to do the Freud thing, you know, somebody's on the couch, and somebody's in the chair, and now gotta go through because it's an identity, a corporate brand is an identity. It's an identity that represents the entire company, like a person's identity. So that's a very interesting process, because all the assumptions and ideas about what it should be what we want it to be, well, it's not really, but we're going to cover that up. And you know, and still say it's true, all that kind of stuff has to get fleshed out. And it has to come to this terms of what is really true for you. In this case, coaching is for literally, you, the person in front of me who's being coached or the team. And in branding, it was with the leader, sometimes it's an entrepreneur, a leader, a CEO. And so it's always a cathartic process. That is the branding process. So it was a perfect fit really, in so many ways.

Oh it, I can see that I hadn't thought about the the work to do the branding and the identity as a kind of evolution of our a parallel with Bing, because you're looking at who are we being as a company? And who do we want to be known for? And also, it just hit me as where do we want to come from? You know, we're always talking in the Bing movement about a place to come from. And so a company that has a brand, it's a place to come from, to be that. And that's what I am guessing you are helping your clients do. As you're working with them today, not so much on the brand identity, but their own personal identity and stepping into who they can be. Yeah,

Yeah. I mean, that's such a great analogy. It's certainly removing all that which is not the authentic self. And being in integrity. A brand that's not in integrity, just falls apart after a while. Has to be re, you know, rebranded. That's what rebranding is sometimes. Yeah. So So yeah, it's kind of like a rebranding process in a way but but you know, it's, so there's this, your meditation I mentioned before, but really what's going on there is it's mindfulness. And so we hear this term mindfulness a lot these days, but what the heck is mindfulness? Mindfulness in the very basic level is knowing what's what. Now there's a warner Earhart distinction, this this idea of distinctions in Warner Earhart's teachings, which is, you know how being beings grown out of that out in the work he did first with an AST later and landmark, of course Steve Hardison was very involved in that. And, and he seek does his own thing with that, and he takes it and makes, you know, his own beautiful stew out of that. But I was exposed to the s training back in the 80s, when I was in my late 20s. So I had this, you know, a fairly good dive into the s teachings, you know, not just a single course, but, you know, several course number of courses. And it was what really allowed me to step up and become the leader I needed to be to grow the business that eventually imploded that led to a new reintroduction, and a revisit to being once again. So now the being revisiting through the book of Bing, and through the group, and through work with rich and Judy, who are very steeped in it being an other folks I've come to know and love. So many they know I've come to know and love. They it's like the university level now for me. And it's discovering all kinds of things about this, this component of what being is and adding that to the mindfulness. So mindfulness is knowing what's what. And distinctions are determining what's what is what, from something else, right. So they're kind of the, they're really the same thing. It's awareness, the level of awareness that we develop, to be able to, to know what we're thinking, when we're thinking it or soon afterwards. And then know what we're feeling the emotions, when we're feeling or soon after, gives us the ability to distinguish what's happening in a conversation as it's going on. And in business, then we have the ability to not react, because we have an expanded level of awareness. And this also couples with ego, this ego piece, where, if I'm really focused on my, when I was really focused on myself more, so I'm not free of the ego. I'm not proclaiming that, but I have a much better awareness about the egos role when it's playing, or I can look back and say, Oh, that was ego came up, got me messed up. Ego has us has a healthy function, but just using it colloquial this way, the ego has, has this identity, focus. And if I'm identity focused with my wants, and my needs, that my being is going to be that way, my speech is going to be that way, my energy is going to be that way, the way I show up with somebody way I look at them the way I pay attention to them, Do I turn that to them? And not pay attention to my monitor anymore? When they come into the office? Or do I take my phone and put it down and be available for people to be so we can be together? And be having a human relationship without all these outside distractions? So this distinction of what is most important? Is it the work? Or is it the people? It's not really either or because they're the same thing. And a business is a I've learned from this book by Steve Zafran. Another gentleman, I can't remember his name right now, that wrote it, the Three Laws of Power, and they they stay, the business is a network of conversations. So that means people talking and a conversation is not just our words, it's what's said and what's not said it's our, it's all the nonverbal communication. And so really, that's the place where a lot of the work I do starts, it starts in presence, like being able to be present, understanding the self, the the factor of what the self is, so I can have a aware I can be aware that I'm aware, I can be aware of what I'm doing. I can be aware that I have an ego that sometimes jumps up and gets the way and that's very helpful. And then I can be present for another person or group of people. And then I can be aware that I want to jump in and say something or get my idea across, I can be, you know, so this is the kind of work that's the blocking and tackling to use of American football term. And then, of course, that, that creates the condition for the higher level relationship work to happen where innovation and creativity are the building of safe spaces, so that people feel included, and can bring out their best because they feel safe. But it's a series of building blocks of greater productivity, less inefficiency, less wasting of time and effort, better well being the well being piece and businesses super important is it's been recognized. Empathy is now being really focused on emotional intelligence is being highly prioritized. There is mindfulness be coming into a lot of organizations being prioritized. And so I see what I'm excited about as I see business, needing to still do business, and they need to keep moving ahead and doing all the things they do. But they're embracing some, some and to some degree, or even others a lot of what surpass surpasses or cuts under or cuts through a lot of the drama, that happens in business, that is problematic for people and then creates a bad work life balance, it comes it goes home with them. And this is problematic, because businesses could be way more efficient. And they're heading that way. And my mission is to, you know, be part of this army that helps boost that along, helps usher in long. Well,

I love the fact that you can bring your past experience in business to your clients. So it gives you a lot of credibility as an advisor, you know, a trusted advisor, because I would think it it accelerates the speed with which they start trusting you when they hear where you are coming from, and your own growth learnings experience and showing them a better way. I want to explore some more about your work with clients. But first, I want to back up, because I know you attended the ultimate coach or the ultimate experience in Phoenix this past January. And you had some pretty important, I think, insights that you gained and important experiences that you had, and I would love for you to share what those were because I think that would be of great value to our listeners. Okay.

Okay. That's wonderful. Thank you, Meredith. Something very close to my heart. It happened at the event. And I didn't know what to expect. And, you know, I had some thoughts across my mind. It's like, I wonder if I'll get a chance to beat Steve Hardison, you know, maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I wonder what that will be like. So I was staying with Judy and Eric, who put that whole amazing event on and it was flawless. It was just beautiful. And the structure of the being with different categories and speakers were all absolutely beautiful. The day before the event, so this is Friday. Shoot, he says Friday, late afternoon. Do you want to go with us to this kind of pre event? We're blessing the space? And would you like to go down with us as Oh, yeah, that would be nice. So the night before the event started on Saturday, went and I was standing there was Casey, I knew Casey I was talking with him. And Steve Hardison walked up and talk to Casey for a minute, and turned to me and said hello. And, and I made, you know, an old, an old business gesture of holding my hand up to shake his hand. And he, he just had his hands outstretched out in front of it. And he just moved in for this really beautiful hug. And it was so tender. I mean, it was just, oh my gosh, it was so heart felt in this embrace and this sense of belonging that just rushed through my body. Now I'd always heard about Steve. And you know, and I had certain impressions of Steve by reading the book, like, oh my gosh, that guy's pretty, pretty aggressive that times you know, and but, you know, I realized that he is so compassionate and so caring. And what I learned about him was that he has an intense Did he because he has an a strong desire to really make a difference. And part of that is a whole other set of qualities that are so beautiful as well that go along with that. So he says very multi-dimensional. Now, we went into the room. And Judy said, Okay, we're just going to go around and touch the tables and bless the tables. And we had done that for a little bit. And music was playing, and I was standing next to rich habits. And Steve Hardison walked up and he said, Hey, guys, we come with me over there's a lady standing over there against the wall, and she's just all by herself. Let's go over and give her a group hug. That's like, oh, wow, cool. So we go over, and Steve and Rich, who are both very tall, basically get her on each of her sides. And I was in front, and we just had this group hug that lasted, I don't know, two, three or four minutes. And this lady, after a bit, she turned and put, I'm gonna get a little motional. buried her head, enriches chest and just bald. And a little bit later, she brought her head back forward, and I put my head against her forehead, and there was something going on there. That was really beautiful. Well, we well, we finished that. And we went back and stood in an oval and all held hands. And there was a mike and few Pete, Judy spoke and somebody else spoke and Steve spoke. And Steve said anybody else. And I just had this urge inside of me. So I said, Yes. Steve, can you hand me the microphone? And I said, Well, something to the effect of and I have to be standing next to her in the circle. This lady care carry carry written ball is her name. She does the Friday live being broadcast. Okay, so I didn't know her before. And I said, Well, I just want to say that I fell in love with this lady tonight. And she's right here next to me. And I just have one question. I'd like to ask her. What is your day. And she took the mic. And she just talked about how she had never felt anything like that before. She had never been accepted. In that way, even in her family. And I've been in touch with Carrie, and it's changed her life. Now, that all came about because Steve Hardison was attuned and attending. And he created something in the moment. Like he knew there was something needed, maybe he didn't know exactly what it was. And it was the perfect thing for this woman. And it was the perfect thing for me. It impacted me greatly. That was a very beautiful moment. And he just set the tone for the entire event. Because the next two days, I call it the being concert, you know, the concert, you went to that just everybody was in sync, everybody was vibing the same rhythm and pace and, and, you know, love and caring and openness. That was two, there was two days. Yeah, and it was to me, I walked away. And I thought, Okay, now this is the this is the example of what's possible in the world. And Ankush, Jane taught when he talked about the practicality, of being being generous, and being a giving and serving person, just not in client relationships, just as he goes through life. But he also talked about his vision, which is expansion of global consciousness. And I felt like that's what I experienced was a sample a Petri dish of what is possible, in that that event had a meta message. And then within it, there was all of these speakers. All of these people in the audience that were there was so much happening, that it almost is like, I can't remember a darn thing of individual things. I mean, I can but it wasn't so much about that everybody who spoke was brilliant. The audience was amazing, and the interactions that audience had, but what was there was an feeling and an energy and a possibility. There's a possibility. If you haven't been to a being event. If you haven't been to an ultimate being event, get yourself to one and the one that's coming up is Birmingham. It'll be and I think may I would do whatever it takes to get there because As I watched Caroline Hughes, I was working with her in a small group with rich for the entire year 2023. And I so I met her in the beginning of 23. I watched her go to India. I watched what she came back like, and I was like, wow, what is that, and I couldn't really relate. And I went to Arizona, and I, I realized it is transformative. This is almost like a model that I see being important, as a way to bring the harmony and energy have multiple people together to affect transition, and transformation. So anyway, yeah, if you have a chance to do that

That's a great, Wow, great testimony of being there. And I want to go back to the, the night before, when you were talking about Steve, picking up on this person. You know, from the book, we know, he's a highly sensitive person. What he picks up on, though, is available to all of us to notice and see with others, you know, and I think that, to me, the beautiful lesson from that story that you shared of that night, is that all of us have noticing that we can do if we're paying attention and going back to what you said about this awareness that we can develop awareness about ourselves, also awareness of those around us. What are we picking up? What are we sensing, because we don't pay attention to that we won't see it. And what to me, Steve has developed is this incredibly finely honed mastery of that, because he's practiced it for so many years, it's natural to him. And it can become natural and automatic for each one of us. If we work on developing that skill, and paying attention, and sensing what somebody might be feeling. And to me it, I just love what you've shared about that event, and want to reinforce your encouragement for people to attend the May event at the end of May. And there's information in the ultimate coach, a community about that particular event if people want to be able to go, I you know, Jim, in kind of summarizing what we've talked about your own journey, from your business, to the work you do today, with clients, and the impact that the event you attended, the lasting impact that has had on you, I would just like you to take a minute to share, what has that done for the way you interact with your clients today?

No it, what you just said, in terms of the picking up on the sensing, what's going on, is amplified the importance of that as a modality. So the map modality of keeping that channel very open as the dialogue is going on. And especially in between the dialogue, though, that the intuition, the factor of intuition, the factor of the heart centeredness are able to that I give over trust to that I give over now, a lot more trust to that, that that actually, the words are important, but they're almost like a they're almost to facilitate. The facilitate and carry is a baseline, the baseline and the music. And the other instruments of the music are the sensing so that it's a package of being so just being with somebody might in some cases be more powerful. Or what I'm finding is sending us a surprise text that's just very simple like you know, hoping that your event goes good today or something like that. And so the sense of belonging so this sensing so I'm highly I'm also highly sensitive person and turns out rich habits is to find thanks so. So this high sensitivity is used to be a curse because I always tried to cover it up wasn't being macho, right? But now, I've really I watched the I read the book, I read the chapter on that I have watched rich work, and I'm really now taking it in as the soup as a superpower. And my ideas are going forward with coaching with clients, and teams is to bring a lot more of that in, not just in me showing up, sensing, but actually, that being, I really feel like that's one of the most important pieces to bring in to business with leaders must absolutely with leaders, but also with the team, because they're sensing individually. But then there's the field, the field of the sensing. So when to peep so we're having a dialogue right now. I'm talking when you talk and I listen, and you listen. So is the conversation me? Or you or me and you provisionally Yes. But it's a it's happening the space between us. And so a team that's able to sense not just intellectually have discussions and problem solving, but open up and sense and allow for something else to open and come through. That is not possible and tell that group sensing and, and the energy, space and sense of belonging and trust, and you can say anything in this space opens up. Wow, all of a sudden, boom, there's a whole nother level of collaboration, all the basic collaboration stuff as the blocking and tackling that it builds on and that as well. I think that's gonna really changed business.

Thank you. You're right. I love that. And you're so right when people feel that security, that safeness or safety in speaking up and allowing for these ideas to emerge. What's possible. That's, that's fantastic, Jim, this has been such a great conversation. I loved hearing about your own journey. And the work you're doing today would not have been possible if you had skipped any of those steps that you went through. Because each one it seems to me has been an integral part of who you are today. And what what you bring and who you are being with your clients and in the world. And I want to acknowledge you for that. And thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you so much, Meredith, I want to thank you. And I want to include you and all the amazing women that I met at the event, I've got to know in the being that were. And I'm focusing on women, because women are very important to me, I had very strong mother, two older sisters that were like mothers, a younger sister, I have two daughters. And there's there's something that's very important about the feminine, the power that the feminine energy brings. And this time that we're in right now, it's very important to step up as women. Actually, the men need to step aside and lift up help the women give them the space to come forward. And the energy and the empathy and the compassion and the caring is what is needed in the world today. And I want to highlight a couple of things. At the event. The only take a second. I have to say this. A look gave up time on the stage for Gabby, Gabby Puma, and Gabby Pullman is a force. She is an absolute force of power for being. And as she says spirit. And then also Rich. Rich had three powerful women on the stage of them, Caroline hills, and Sarah Adani and Hina Khan, and they are all powerful woman and doing amazing things. And there was a whole bunch of other women on the stage and in the audience in powerful banks. And Eric LaFawn gave a lot of his time to his daughter, his daughter is just absolutely empowered to tell all of us parents, how important it is to listen to their children really listen to their children. And that generation is going to be the ones that really make the change. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Marita.

Well, that was a great addition. Thank you, Jim. It's been a wonderful conversation.

Thank you.

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