Dementia Cruising with Kathy Smith Shoaf, RN

Welcome, everybody to another brand new episode of the truth, lies and Alzheimer's show. I'm Lisa Skinner, your host. And I cannot even begin to tell you how excited I am to have Kathy Smith Shoaf as my guests my very, very special guest on the show today. And I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about her, because she's going to be able to say it so much better than I. But the one thing that I'm going to start off with is just to let you know that Kathy has had a very successful career as a registered nurse, she can tell you a little bit more about her background. But the reason why she's here today is because of the extraordinary power path that she has set herself on to bring joy and happiness into the lives of people living with Alzheimer's disease and dementia, and their caregivers and their family members. And I'm going to keep you in suspense for a second just to let her share with you what she has created out there. And until I recently met Kathy, I didn't even know that such a thing even existed out there. And I've been I've been in the dementia space for 30 years, helping families. So I am especially excited to share this information with all of you, and how any of us have the option to have the opportunity to bring just unbelievable joy into the worlds of our loved ones and the people we care for living with dementia. So without further ado, let me introduce you to Kathy Smith Shoaf. Kathy, I just can't wait for you to start telling everybody you are you've told me so many times that we've talked that a lot of your peers and colleagues think you are insane for what you do. And we're still keeping everybody in suspense. But I look at you as an absolute angel. And I'm looking at your picture on my screen and I see the wings and the halo looking at you because if I'm not mistaken, I believe you are the only person out there that offers what you offer. So let's not keep the audience in suspense anymore. Let's bring Kathy Smith Shoaf onto the platform and she can tell you this very, very special and extraordinary opportunity that she has created for people living with Alzheimer's disease and dementia. Go ahead, Kathy, welcome to to my show.

Kathy Smith Shoaf: Lisa, thank you. I am honored to get to be here. Honored to get to talk with your audience. I am Kathy. I am a registered nurse. I have been a registered nurse for 40 plus years. And I am a geriatric neurology nurse. My history I spent about 20 years as a long term care, Senior Living, executive, managing continuing continuum of care communities. And I loved it. I mean, the people, the clients, the families, but there was never a day ever a day that someone was not angry. Someone was angry about the food wasn't the right temperature. She's sitting in my seat, the peas are too hard. The glue with the craft doesn't stick. I don't have enough times for bingo. I was like, Oh, come on people. I realized that there had to be a way that families loved ones and the people that they care for that have a cognitive challenge of whatever kind that means or a mobility challenge can still enjoy life. Getting to live. Getting to enjoy life should not have to stop because of the diagnosis. Right? So I create travel opportunities. I create cruise groups all over the world where we get to travel with caregivers and their loved ones and their families together. And this is not something that Kathy takes 55 people to Alaska by herself. We don't do them. That's not how this works. I have a completely professional, fully staffed program. And I take staff with me at a ratio of one professional to every four travelers. We create daily caregiver, respite, adult daycare. or programming music therapy, art therapy for their loved ones. While the caregivers take off, we take full responsibility for several hours every day, so that the caregivers have a true honest, real respite. And the other piece of the program, lets us create some programming for the caregivers. Some education, some workshops, some caregiver circles, because when they leave this wonderful situation that we literally total them for every need that they have. They don't have the power to go back into their real world without some tools to make that easier. So we do, we do a good job of creating programming that gives these caregivers something to hang on to, so that when they leave, they have information in their back pocket. Maybe they don't need it today. Maybe they're going to use it two months from now. But they will need it. And it gives them something to be able to use to make life. Good. Don't be me. Oh,

the cruise line that you work with is a really classy cruise line. I actually have cruised on Holland, Holland America cruise lines before and you know, I can personally attest to, you know, it's just top notch. And absolutely, to us. So I've always found the food to be excellent. And just, you know, first class. So this is not kind of pie in the sky kind of travel, this is really planned out strategic well thought out. I don't think she has skipped a beat on anything that she offers. But just to give our listeners an idea. So I know that you do you've done and just recently did a seven day Alaska cruise. We did. Okay, Could you walk us through what that week in Alaska, would look like if anybody out there is interested in taking a loved one on a cruise, like, how you start out and what you do each day. And the other thing that I'm really interested in hearing is the changes that you personally witness in the different players. That would mean the people living with dementia, the caregivers, the family members, maybe you can just give us an idea of some of the success stories that you've personally experienced and witnessed on your cruises when you go along with them. And you know, the things that they never ever thought they'd experience or thought possible.

Kathy Smith Shoaf: Well, our our activities start in two different places. Every single family we meet and greet at the airport, up at the airport, manage their luggage, take the loved one to the restroom, get their bags, and then assist them personally back to the group hotel, help them get checked in Take the luggage to the room so that they are not, there's no more stress. But the other piece of that is that we frequently do accompanied flights. And so my Alaska story starts for several families back at their own house, in Houston. And in Tampa. We had staff members that went to those cities and met them and flew with them. And on that side note, I'm getting ready to do an accompanied flight to Europe. When we go to Norway in a few weeks. Literally hands on one on one, help the the spouse manage the situation through the airport through the restrooms through the through the flight. I have a whole bag of tricks that I'm going to take on that flight with me because I've had the privilege to travel with this young lady before and I her husband needs a nap. So we are going to do whatever we need to do to play games and she is going to have a she's going to have fun. And he's going to take a nap. So that's number one. We get people into the group hotel in whatever way they choose is appropriate for them. And that can be meeting them at their house and going all the way to the airport, flying with them going through the airport. And that's perfectly appropriate because we want to be there, to provide the support that they need, and especially the ladies just have such a struggle with public bathrooms. So I'm number one focused on helping them. So the the gentleman that flew over to Houston, he the client with dementia is a man. And so that was the appropriate setup so that that's how they manage the bathroom situation. And I am flying with a lady to Amsterdam. And so we very strategically set it up so that the family, the caregivers can just relax a bit. So after we get them back to the group hotel, we will have a table in the group hotel so that they know exactly where we are, they start to meet and greet all of my staff. We have name badges, we have folders, and so that they start to begin to see everything that's going to happen in writing. So many of these caregivers are so stressed, they don't really ever even read an email because they just can't process all of that right now. And I truly get that. So we have a group transfer to the ship. So the next morning or a couple days later, we have a transfer to the ship together. And I have a staff member assigned to each family to help them get through checking their luggage, get through the process of checking into the ship going through the immigration with passports and so forth. So someone's there to help them find what they need. Or just hang on to their loved one, let's just decrease the anxiety as far as we can decrease it, they get them on the ship, take them all the way to their cabin. And then we meet back and have lunch together as a group. So we try very hard to just take the pressure off of the family off of the spouse off of the daughter off of the person that's that's accompanying them so that they can check into the ship, get things put away. We have an afternoon process where if if they'd like then we will just go get a cup of coffee or some cookies and a doughnut or some ice cream with their loved ones and they can unpack and then we will have supper together. We have dinners together every evening. And we try to shuffle around between the tables so that everybody gets to know everybody else. The evening consists of numerous different music venues. Holland America does an amazingly good job with providing a five course meal for dinner. But then five or six different venues for entertainment, different genres of entertainment in different locations for different people's tastes. All the way from BB King, to dueling pianos to to to Broadway I mean different different locations where each family can choose what works for them. And then we we hang out with them. We dance, we encourage the interaction with dancing and music, there is a significant benefit to music therapy and motion and with the music and you will just see them come alive. And they just love the opportunity to hear the music that they like.

You talked about a person centered approach to care. You are the poster child for that methodology. I mean, I just can't

Kathy Smith Shoaf: applaud the Glee. Didn't we do a survey before we ever leave home? I forgot my survey. So that I know those answers. I send the survey to the caregiver. What is his favorite baseball team? Where did he go to college? What did he take? What did he do when he was when he was a younger man? Who does he root for in football? You know, does he like to paint does he like to color does he ever fished? You know, what does he enjoy doing now? What did he and you do 20 years ago? And so I've got the songs that I'm told what's the favorite song? What's the favorite genre downloaded on my phone? And the trick to that is that music can honestly change the experience in a whole room for a person that's agitated. The right song will change their actions immediately.

Yes.

Kathy Smith Shoaf: So if my little lady that's going with me to Amsterdam, loves rock and roll. And I know exactly which songs she likes and I can assure you that they are downloaded on this phone and they are ready to play. And because that that will make this hearse husband have a wonderful day because she and I will just be fun. So that's what we use. that kind of a concept in the music therapy, I use the dancing and the music in the evenings to just find something that makes everybody click. Some people want the rock'n'roll some people want BB King, some people want dueling pianos, you know, it's, and that's perfectly fine. My staff just spreads out between the groups, and we all just, you know, everybody gets to go to whatever they want to. And if they're just tired, and it's too late for time for a nap, well, then that's great, then we work with breakfast in the morning. And you know, that's perfectly fine. Some of our clients are night owls and want to stay up till 11. And some of them want to get up at six. And some of them want to sleep till 10. And you just have to juggle our schedules around that meets their needs. So

naturally stop, depending on what crews are at different ports and do the people with with the cognitive impairment get off? Or do they stay on and the family members and the caregivers go for the day are separate depends

Kathy Smith Shoaf: on the family's choice. Okay, the family wants their loved one to come with them, then we always offer one of my staff to accompany them also.

That's an option.

Kathy Smith Shoaf: That's an option. Absolutely. And that's all part of what we do. There's no charge for that. That's all part of what we do. So if, if they want to go on a sightseeing trip, and they want dad to come along, then I'm going to say hey, how about Would you would you like Joe to join you? Would that be good. You know, if they don't, that's fine. If they want their privacy, we will back off, but I don't want them to end up missing out on something because dad's being difficult. But it's a family

member and or caregiver just kind of want the break, then the other option is they can leave their loved one on the ship with your staff.

Kathy Smith Shoaf: Yes, because we have conference space on the ship every day at 8am to 4pm. And we can use that to do games and puzzles and whatever, or I will be happy to line it up so that they get to go on a different excursion, which is more appropriate to their mobility level or their cognitive interest. So maybe we'll just gonna go see the lumberjack show. And mom and the three daughters are gonna go see if they can get splashed by a whale. And that's great. That's absolutely wonderful. But dad's dad's just gonna love it at the lumberjack show. On the other hand, a different family won't want to take down to see the whales. And then we will offer to send one of our people with him. So that everybody's safe, everybody's calm, and they just still get to do what they want to do. And so I'm getting ready to depart for Alaska on Sunday. Oh, and we are we are taking a group to Alaska this week. And same story, it's a different ports, different locations, different stops. But the way that we conduct, managing and assisting the families is completely the same. And we have the families pick out their excursions ahead of time. I'm happy to make recommendations. Most of them do pick out something and then they lots of them change their mind. All of those things can all be had, it all gets handled and all gets managed. And then the staff just is assigned to go with whichever families want assist.

So I'm sure that one of the questions that's probably weighing on a lot of people's minds, including mine, is is there an average stage of dementia that people go on these cruises? I mean, or it's a case by case basis? Or how do you determine if somebody is still appropriate to go on one of these cruises? To

Kathy Smith Shoaf: be honest, we have taken people in all stages, okay, from very early until very late.

And this adapt whatever their level is to what you're doing

Kathy Smith Shoaf: well and as I'm as I'm talking with the with the family or with the caregivers to begin with, if they need or want additional care, provided, we can and will provide bathing and dressing assist for instance, if that's something that they need, there will be a little bit of an upcharge for that, but then I will have staff available to do that for them when they need that kind of care. Okay, so absolutely. We've had many, many, many, many, many clients that are incontinent, most of them, okay, both of them. We have had several recently that are that are a complete and total feed, for instance. And we have the family or a CNA or an RN feeds them, you know, it just depends on how the family wants is managed. But we will provide all that sort of additional care, we had a client on the Alaska trip, wheelchair bound, and definitely a full time feed. And we had a I had a tube feed person on the Alaska trip also. So we just we create the kind of cabin or the kind of space that they need for their room with accommodations to have to be compliant with what's safe, if they need wheelchair assist, or they need a wheelchair cabin, they need to walk in shower, they need a shower chair, they need elevated toilet seat, detachable showerheads, all of those things can be arranged ahead of time, and some of the mobility equipment rented. And, you know, just the right pieces in place for them as as the process goes forward.

So one of the things that comes up the question that's posed to me pretty regularly, because a lot of family members asked me, Is it a good idea to take, take my mom at a memory care and bring her home for the holidays, at least for the day? And what can I expect? So how do you deal with a change of environment for people living with dementia? Because, you know, something unfamiliar to somebody living with dementia can create anxiety and stress. And I'm sure that that you are well prepared for that. So could you help people understand what that process looks like for you and your staff, because it's a very real thing that happens. And it's probably something that people would be concerned about. So maybe you

Kathy Smith Shoaf: think it's definitely a real situation? Yeah. And one of the key ways I manage it is with music, the right music, the right music, the right song, on my phone, can really decrease agitation and fear. I mean, the the agitation is generally coming from fear, what are they afraid of, and and I don't want to be afraid, and I don't want any of them to be afraid. So. We work aggressively with neuroplasticity, which means a new cognitive path. As a geriatric neurology nurse, I think I'm still pulling out that knowledge from my, from my education, but you know, a new sights, new sounds, new tastes, new smell, new feel, will open up a new neural pathway in our brain in everyone's brain. And it will increase our cognitive alert status in every single human. So you will see, I see this happening with our clients with a cognitive challenge while we're going through a traveling process, but the key to traveling I believe, and not causing increased anxiety is to keep it as familiar as possible. So that's one of the main reasons that I use cruises, because we stay in the same cabin every night. Once everything is unpacked, it's all in the same place that wherever the caregiver wants it to be. We eat at the same tables in the same dining room in the same space, same waiters, same my staff does not change, we are in the same conference space consistently. Of course, we're doing a lot of new and different things, but everything that we can maintain a consistent location, a consistent site we do. And then we just use the new tastes and new smells and new things that are happening in it as joyful and as a happy of possibilities. We just try to make everything that happens into something that's fun. You can break down barriers and stop fear with a smile so many times and

obviously using reminiscence and and all five senses you're you are really tapping in to helping them reconnect with their lives themselves. And you're seeing the you know, the benefits of all these methodologies that we know work,

Kathy Smith Shoaf: they do work, they all work, you just have to put them all into practice. Yeah. Back to where did it Where do you go to college? Well, this one, we went to the University of Michigan. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm going to have my produce what shirt on when I meet that guy. And I'm going to have his fight song downloaded on my phone. And we're just going to have fun with the fact that he's a Wolverine and I am Boilermaker period. And so I mean, just from the beginning of those kinds of moments, you can decrease that fear and anxiety with things that make them happy. Yes, what does he really enjoy? Oh, he loves Michigan football. Well, then we're gonna we're gonna play that to the top. I, I had a guy from Ohio State numerous years ago that traveled with us about six times. He just precious he would wear all of his Ohio State stuff on the plane, just to see if he could irritate the crap out of me when I picked him up at the airport. I'm like, oh, no, no, we both played this game. So it became such an amazing joke and amazing fun, that he still calls me and says, Hey, I saw your guys playing basketball. Yeah, really good, huh. It's just, we find the piece that's happy for them. And then drive at home. If if they love fishing, we've taken guys fishing in Alaska, we literally took a whole bunch of our guys fishing off the pier in Alaska. And they caught some of the ugliest salmon you've ever seen. But they were giggling and laughing, they was absolutely fun. They just had a blast, you are creating such precious moments of joy for these people that would last public at least the rest of the day, if not the rest of the week, they might not remember actually fishing, but they're gonna remember how they felt well, and we and we take all we take 1000s of pictures. And then we make certain that the caregivers and the spouses have the pictures. Oh, that now we can go back and say, Hey, man, that fish, it was so cool, because he's so ugly, you know, as those kinds of things will still make them laugh. And the caregivers, the family, the loved ones, just have memories that they get to hold in their heart forever. Yes, it's good to see dad happy. They get to see mom, putting her feet in the ocean, again, playing with the fish. You know, it just such simple things in our day to day lives. But it brings such joy, and gives those family members just a heart of happiness when this caregiving journey has completed. It's just such a happy time. happy moments, happy, wonderful, heartfelt memories.

And that's one of the things that you know, in my 30 years working with families, it's just, I've realized is so important, it's so painful for adult children to watch their loved one their mom, their dad decline and feel so helpless, and want to fix them and make them better, but don't know how to go about doing that. And something to like this, that can just make a huge difference. And they'll keep those memories with them forever, even when their loved one has passed on. And it's therapeutic. And it's just the greatest feeling in the world to know that you did have the opportunity to provide that very special special time for your loved one that you may not have even known was available.

Kathy Smith Shoaf: We do everything possible to create those amazing, joyful, happy memories. We take photos on specific locations and specific places that I know of that I can set up easily without a lot of crowded people without a lot of a crowd around them. You know, just create memories that they that they get to hold on to. I personally have have been through the caregiving process with both of my aging parents. My mother had vascular dementia just horribly and the processes is staggeringly painful and these caregivers are physically and emotionally exhausted. Yeah. Even the ones that don't want to admit it they are and the stress of the whole situation is staggering. The statistics show us that 60% of caregivers die before their loved ones. Yes, and that is true and I am living proof. I'm I literally had a heart attack under this dress. Wow. And God, let me God, let me still be here. That's the answer to that question. But I, I have had numerous caregivers passed away before their loved ones when I was working in senior housing properties, and it's just, it's just it's staggeringly difficult, what we go through to care for them and love them and nurture them so forth. But the caregivers need the opportunity to connect with each other. And they need to learn something that can help them go forward. Yeah, so we know we work tirelessly to create caregiver circles. Through the process of of losing my mom, I learned things in caregiver circles, because my brain was unable to process any more information anymore. And, and one of our young ladies from, from Florida literally told me how to keep my mother in the house. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, Brittany, that's the answer. Like, it's just, you are right, that's how this works. I mean, I should have known those things. But at that moment in our lives, we are unable to, to see what the solutions could be because you're just so stressed and so exhausted that you can't do that anymore. So we have some caregiver circles in the hot tub with mango margaritas. And it's pretty nice. And any of our ladies that don't want to have a bathing suit on there's there's little round tables right there by the hot tub, we we just have a a fun time learning and listening to each other. And every single trip, I learned something new myself, absolutely, we are going to embark on Trip number 55 In two days, and something will happen, I will learn something from one of my clients. Now, I'm not the only RN on this trip, I might learn something from BB. But something will happen different that we have never experienced before. And we will be on our toes the whole time. Because it's very likely it'll be something you need to be paying attention to. But we will learn something. And another thing I wanted to tell you as far as the safety and managing the environment, I coach caregivers to bring a door alarm. What a tracking device of some sort, on your loved one, decrease your own stress. You know, I know she doesn't wander right now, but put one on her anyway, because you're in a new environment. And she may get confused as to which is the bathroom door, which is the exterior door. So Alaska, one month ago, first night on the ship, one of my little young ladies went out the door and her husband's calling and now he she's done at the front desk, because he looks at me and he says, well, Kathy, I did what you said I brought the door alarm and I have the tracker, but I didn't think I needed it. Well, we do. Because that's going to let you go to sleep at night. And it's going to keep her safe. And if she decides to wander out of the room and find the front desk again, then at least you'll be able to look at the phone and tell where she's at. So the solutions are there. The problem solving is there. Keeping them where we are comfortable with you know, in the room so that the caregiver can sleep is very important. But there are ways to do that. We just have to go through the process of making that happen safely. That we have an RN on call 24/7 They all have my cabin number. They all know what my phone number is. They all know how to get a hold of me. And that's that's what we need to do.

Where else have you gone besides Oh, you've done the Caribbean many times, right?

Kathy Smith Shoaf: Oh, absolutely. The Caribbean we're leaving for the Caribbean twice in November. We will have two Caribbean Dementia Friendly cruises in November of 24. And where does that go?

Where do those go? Um,

Kathy Smith Shoaf: the first one will go to the southern Caribbean all the way down to Aruba. Curacao Bonaire back to Jamaica and then Holland America's private island in the Bahamas pool. And that is the that's the best trip ever in my in my book. That's That's awesome. And then the other one will go to the Western Caribbean for seven days. And then in in September of this year, we're going to go to Europe for the first time. We'll spend two weeks in over in Norway. And we will also go over to Bermuda. We've been up to out of the east coast up into Canada. Out of the West Coast. Yeah onto the Mexican Riviera, and then out of the west coast up to Alaska.

Are there any other special stories? I'm sure you have just a lifetime full of them. But are there Do you have any special stories that come to mind that you would like to share about any of the trips that just really stand out for you? Before we run out of time, Kathy,

Kathy Smith Shoaf: I think that my greatest, my greatest compliment is the caregivers that choose to travel with us again. And you know, and come back numerous times, even to the same locations. I have a gentleman that went to the Panama Canal four times, because he just loved it, he just wanted to be there. You know, the ACOP ability to give these caregivers, some of them are literally getting to see bucketlist places. Some of them are just getting to vacation again, with their loved one having the opportunity to be her husband, instead of her caretaker. You know, these the spouses and these families just want to have fun with their loved one. I would, I wanted to have fun. So bear with my mom, I did take the chance to travel with her numerous times. The good moments, the happy moments that the things that she got to do play with sled dog puppies, you know, she got to do things that were just fun and wonderful. She got to have breakfast on the balcony of her cabin with her husband, you know, she, you know, just beautiful, happy, wonderful things that that are wonderful things that I always get to remember forever.

I have goosebumps all over my body from listening to you talk about these experiences. How? I don't know Maryland? Should we can we drop a link or type it into the chat? How people can find out about Kathy's cruises. You can give us all the information. And you know get further details about possibly considering going on one of these cruises. Oh, how many people typically are on each cruise? As far as not staff? I said you said there was a ratio of one to four. But what about passengers? How many? How many family members or caregivers are people living with the our

Kathy Smith Shoaf: groups of clients generally cap out at about 50 or 55. Because I'm capped out at the conference space. Even if we're always going to remain staffed at one to three one to four period, I can always add more staff. But the conference space, I need an enclosed space with the door in order to do the education with the caregivers. But most of all to do the adult daycare programming, you know, we need to utilize the space that is available to us. And so that's honestly the truth about 25 families. And we take a lot of extended families we take a lot of like I take a husband and a wife and then i She brings her sisters and their husbands for instance, the families that are that come with their loved ones and their caregivers, the families are extended a significant ly positively positive rate with the cruiselines because I have a contractual right for the group. And we do not charge any service fees or professional care fees to anyone except the client and their primary caregiver. And all of the rest of their family travels under my contract rate. So we try it we want the families to come we want the families to see what what the situation really is what their loved one we want them to, you know to have fun and joyful experiences together. Because those moments aren't going to last forever. We just want it to happen as quickly as we can.

So there you have it. I know you can't wait for this episode to answer you can go check out Kathy's website, where where do we go to find out more information about what cruises are coming up and the cost and all the fine details to help us possibly lean towards signing up for one of your cruises? Well,

Kathy Smith Shoaf: my phone number is 888-826-6836 and the website is listed at WWW dot At elite cruises, and vacations travel.com. And there's a section on their upcoming Dementia Friendly cruises. And we are going to the Caribbean twice in November. And I have space in both of those groups right now.

Oh, it's great to know. Well, this is just been an extraordinary episode, I just can't thank you enough for coming on today and sharing this just priceless opportunity. We with our listeners, because I have a feeling that a lot of people didn't even know these Dementia Friendly cruises existed. So if this, you know, gives hope and promise to one family member out there, who, you know, just takes that leap of faith, then, gosh, we've done our job right cafe,

Kathy Smith Shoaf: absolutely, they posit the possible opportunity to find joy in the day. And I truly believe that everybody deserves to get to enjoy every day God gives us. And that means doing something that is fun, let's laugh, let's let's enjoy something happy. And sometimes it's just a wonderful conversation on a meal. Now granted, it's a five course meal, but it's a great meal. Or maybe it's getting splashed by the whale or playing with sled dog puppies, or playing with the fish, or getting your feet in the ocean again. But the moments of happiness are something we shouldn't take for granted. I agree with everything you're saying when just 1,000,000%.

So anything else before we close today that you would like to make mention of?

Kathy Smith Shoaf: No, I'm just I'm honored to get to be here. And I'm just, I'm happy for the honor the privilege, the opportunities, and I thank you very much. I sincerely love what I get to do. I have never worked harder. But I've never done anything that actually felt like it truly mattered. And we've been doing this since 2016. And like I said, this will be trip number 55. And it leaves in three days.

Oh my goodness, you must be like the Energizer Bunny, you just keep going and going and going. I don't know how you do what you do. But we're just couldn't be more grateful or thank you for Kathy Shoaf spear and what you what you do for people living with Alzheimer's and dementia and their families and caregivers, because there's gosh, there's just not a lot of hope. Once people get their diagnosis, they think well, you know, they automatically think that life's over,

Kathy Smith Shoaf: life's over. They don't even they don't even give them any any resources, when they give them a diagnosis. They see you. So no Fair's fair. But there are a lot of opportunities to live and still enjoy life and with the right support. It's very realistic, it's very positive. And it's very possible to still travel and have a great time.

This is just so wonderful to know. And thank you again, for being here. It's my privilege to have you. And gosh, I just, I just can't applaud you enough for what you are providing for people in this on this journey. And it's so needed. And it's I mean, there's just not enough words to say how special this is. And I hope a lot of people have an opportunity to be able to attend one and go on this wonderful experience with you. So

Kathy Smith Shoaf: but we're gonna go to Alaska two times, and 25. And we're gonna go to the Caribbean, two times in November, and then two times in the winter. And then we're going to go to Mexico, and we're going to go to the Panama Canal. And we're going to go to Bermuda. So the 25 schedule will be up on the website very shortly.

Well, it sounds like there's definitely something for everybody. And again, I want to emphasize that anybody and everybody, no matter what stage they're in, on their journey. They can make it work for you. Yes. Anyway, I that was an important question for me because I you know, maybe a lot of people might be thinking, Oh, my mom's way. Far too gone to be able to do something like that. But as you're saying, Ah, nobody is nobody, nobody

Kathy Smith Shoaf: is and we can and the families can still have wonderful happy memories.

Yes. Terrific. All right. So Kathy, just give us that website and that phone number one more time, so people have a chance to make note of it. And I'm hoping everybody takes advantage of this. And probably I don't know the costs are we're not going to go into that it's on her website. But it sounds like it may be more affordable than that. It sounds for people.

Kathy Smith Shoaf: We try to make it. Yes. It the price is determined by the kind of cruise cabin that they choose. Okay. So the phone number is 888-826-6836. And the website is elite cruises, and vacations. travel.com. Terrific.

Thanks again for being here. And I hope everybody has enjoyed this episode of the truth lies and Alzheimer's show. I'm Lisa Skinner, your host. We'll be back next week with another brand new episode. I hope you'll join us then. And I wish everybody a happy well week, and look forward to seeing you again next week. Take care for now. Bye bye