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Everyone has a story to tell but not all of us are sure how to go about it.
My guest Mike Ganino is the speaker coach who helped me prepare my TedXHarrisburg talk and today he joins me on the podcast to discuss what it really takes to create a "Mike Drop" moment in your talk.
Are you ready to share your story?
Join us as we discuss:
How we bring every part of ourselves into our current Great Work
Why we need to balance our light against our shadow and own who we really are
How to stop trying to be “Great” and, instead, seek to be you
About the Guest:
Mike Ganino is a storytelling + communication expert and creator of the Mike Drop Method. He hosts The Mike Drop Moment podcast. He’s been named a Top 10 Public Speaking Coach by Yahoo Finance, and California’s Best Speaking and Communication Coach by Corporate Vision Magazine. He is an author, former Executive Producer of TEDxCambridge and has been named a Top 30 Speaker by Global Guru. He teaches storytelling, presence, and public speaking to some of the biggest names and brands. He’s a trained actor and coach from the World Famous Second City, Improv Olympics, and Upright Citizen’s Brigade. In addition to his track record as an executive in the hotel, restaurant, retail, and tech industries, Mike’s worked with organizations like the Disney, American Century Investments, American Marketing Association, and UCLA.
www.mikeganino.com/storycraft <- Free storytelling guide
www.mikeganino.com/apply <- To Apply to work together
www.instagram.com/mikeganino <- To hangout on Insta
About the Host:
Dr. Amanda Crowell is a cognitive psychologist, speaker, author and coach changing our perspective on the world of work. It IS possible to do Great Work-- launch a successful business, make a scientific discovery, raise a tight-knit family, or manage a global remote team-- without sacrificing your health, happiness and relationships.
Amanda is the Author of the forthcoming book, Great Work: Do What Matter Most Without Sacrificing Everything Else, and the creator of the Great Work Journals. Amanda's TEDx talk has received more than a million views and has been featured on TED's Ideas blog and Ted Shorts.
Her ideas have also been featured on NPR, Al Jazeera, The Wall Street Journal, Quartz, and Thrive Global.
Sponsored By The Aligned Time Journal
The Unleashing Your Great Work podcast is sponsored by the Aligned Time Journal! The Aligned Time Journal is here to answer the question "But HOW?" How can we figure out what our Great Work is? How can we get started, stay with it, and finish our Great Work so it can go out in the world and have an impact?
Click here to learn more, and try it out for yourself!
For more information about the Unleashing YOUR Great Work podcast or to learn more about Dr. Amanda Crowell, check out my website: amandacrowell.com
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Welcome to unleashing your great work, a
Dr Amanda Crowell:podcast about doing the work that matters the most to you.
Dr Amanda Crowell:I'm your host, Dr. Amanda Kroll, a cognitive psychologist,
Dr Amanda Crowell:speaker, coach, and the creator of the aligned time journals.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Every week on this podcast, we are asking the big questions.
Dr Amanda Crowell:What is great work? And why does it matter so much to us? What
Dr Amanda Crowell:does it take to do more of your great work without sacrificing
Dr Amanda Crowell:everything else? And how does the world change when more
Dr Amanda Crowell:people are doing more of the work that matters the most to
Dr Amanda Crowell:them? Whether you're great work is building your own small
Dr Amanda Crowell:business, or managing a remote team at a multinational company.
Dr Amanda Crowell:You'll find insight and answers here. This week on the podcast,
Dr Amanda Crowell:I am so excited to welcome Mike Canino, who is a storytelling
Dr Amanda Crowell:and communication expert and the creator of the mic drop method.
Dr Amanda Crowell:He hosts the mic drop moment podcast, he's been named one of
Dr Amanda Crowell:the top 10 public speaking coaches by a number of exciting
Dr Amanda Crowell:places. In addition to being an author, a former executive
Dr Amanda Crowell:producer of the TEDx Cambridge. He's an author, former executive
Dr Amanda Crowell:producer of TEDx Cambridge, and has been named a top 30 speaker
Dr Amanda Crowell:by global guru. Welcome to the podcast, Mike.
Mike Ganino:Hi, thanks for having me.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Yeah, thanks for coming. I'm excited. I've
Dr Amanda Crowell:been listening to your podcast for years now. So it's really
Dr Amanda Crowell:exciting to have you on mine.
Mike Ganino:It's a It's always fun. I always feel this, like,
Mike Ganino:there's a little bit of freedom and not having to be the host,
Mike Ganino:you know, so I like being the guest, because I can just be
Mike Ganino:here and be like, I just have to respond. And yeah, so I enjoy
Mike Ganino:that. I enjoy both sides of the mic, if you will.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Both sides of the mic. Yeah, I bet you do. So
Dr Amanda Crowell:Well, that brings us to a great question. You're, you've you're
Dr Amanda Crowell:on all kinds of sides of the mic. You've been a podcast host
Dr Amanda Crowell:a podcast guest million times, you're always on stage. And
Dr Amanda Crowell:these days, you're actually coaching speaker. So why don't
Dr Amanda Crowell:we start with the question we always start with on this
Dr Amanda Crowell:podcast, which is my guinea. Now, tell us a little bit about
Dr Amanda Crowell:your great work.
Mike Ganino:This idea of great work really sent me into a
Mike Ganino:little bit of a, a little bit of a spin, Amanda, I'm sure. Maybe
Mike Ganino:no one else admits it. But I
Dr Amanda Crowell:know you're not you're, you're not the first
Dr Amanda Crowell:but please tell me what you mean.
Mike Ganino:And I think for a couple of reasons, because we
Mike Ganino:often think about, you know, what is my great work? And in
Mike Ganino:that, what am I doing? So what do I actually do? You know, and
Mike Ganino:you've mentioned that so kindly in this introduction with all
Mike Ganino:the speaking and the coaching and all the things I do there.
Mike Ganino:And then I thought about, okay, so what's one level deeper than
Mike Ganino:that? What do I help people do and it's like, well, I help them
Mike Ganino:really find their, their story and help them find their truth.
Mike Ganino:And maybe that's my great work is to do that. And then I have a
Mike Ganino:daughter who's a little toddler, she's, she's, you know, a little
Mike Ganino:over a year now. And so I thought maybe she is my great
Mike Ganino:work. And then I really got thinking about this idea that I
Mike Ganino:that I use all the time in my, in my speaking coaching with
Mike Ganino:clients, which is really more like self expression coaching,
Mike Ganino:I'm really helping people to like, figure out who they are in
Mike Ganino:front of other people. Because we're so often, we've created
Mike Ganino:personas, and we lose ourselves sometimes. And we get in front
Mike Ganino:of other people to express ourselves. And we're doing it as
Mike Ganino:some weird version of not ourselves. So I thought about,
Mike Ganino:okay, well, maybe that's the work. And ultimately, what I
Mike Ganino:what I found, when I really started thinking more deeply
Mike Ganino:about this, is this idea that I share with clients all the time
Mike Ganino:that, that our job is really to kind of understand ourselves at
Mike Ganino:such a deep level that we understand these invisible
Mike Ganino:forces that affect how we show up in the world. And I think
Mike Ganino:that my great work, my greatest work is is that on myself,
Mike Ganino:because that's allows me all those other things I said that
Mike Ganino:could have been my great work the the coaching people to, you
Mike Ganino:know, rock a TEDx or to go speak on behalf of their company, or
Mike Ganino:to talk about their book that they've just written, or my
Mike Ganino:parenting work at, which is a lot of work as you know. And
Mike Ganino:some days, some days, I do a really good job at that work and
Mike Ganino:other days. Yeah, yeah, that's
Dr Amanda Crowell:the story of parenting. The end, we just
Dr Amanda Crowell:wrote the whole podcast on parent,
Mike Ganino:that's the show, but um, but it really got me
Mike Ganino:thinking about it. And I really do think that that my great
Mike Ganino:work, regardless of what other ways it might manifest itself,
Mike Ganino:what other little creative lights may shine on others are
Mike Ganino:on the world because of my great work. I really do believe that
Mike Ganino:my great work is to really dive deep into understanding myself
Mike Ganino:and learning to balance and this is the thing I push my clients
Mike Ganino:to do all the time they come for public speaking coaching, and
Mike Ganino:then you know, we go out into Joshua Tree and find our finer
Mike Ganino:magic is that we are constantly in a dance between our The the
Mike Ganino:light of us are our highest self, our, you know, the
Mike Ganino:executive leader who thinks, who thinks like royalty, you know,
Mike Ganino:there's the archetypes of like the king and queen. And they're
Mike Ganino:ultimately like, these these kind and Royal and calm parental
Mike Ganino:figures who take care of everybody. I think that's the
Mike Ganino:light side of us and the shadow side of us. And I think what
Mike Ganino:most of us do, what we've been trained to do in this world,
Mike Ganino:what I, what I really push back on myself, when I find myself
Mike Ganino:doing it, even to my daughter, is that we're taught that the
Mike Ganino:shadow side of us should be hidden, that we shouldn't, that
Mike Ganino:we shouldn't talk to it, that we shouldn't negotiate with it that
Mike Ganino:we shouldn't learn to use it. But the reality is, it will
Mike Ganino:always be pulling us back under that, that those waves if we
Mike Ganino:don't learn the dance between the two, because both of them
Mike Ganino:are gifts, and I think my great work in my life, is doing that
Mike Ganino:work for myself. And then whatever little light may shine
Mike Ganino:out to my daughter, to my husband, to my friends, to
Mike Ganino:lovely podcast hosts who have me on their show, and ultimately,
Mike Ganino:to my clients around self expression and public speaking,
Mike Ganino:that is just a bonus that comes from me doing that work on
Mike Ganino:myself.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Wow, I like that a lot. The thing that
Dr Amanda Crowell:struck me when you said it, that I that it like really sort of
Dr Amanda Crowell:stopped me in my tracks, was this this notion of like, Who
Dr Amanda Crowell:are you in front of other people? And often I think that
Dr Amanda Crowell:that answer has two levels to it, right? There's the what mask
Dr Amanda Crowell:do you put on and you know, if you look at any of the work on
Dr Amanda Crowell:Ark types, or alter egos or anything like that, that seems
Dr Amanda Crowell:to be the strategy, right? It's like, take on an archetype.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Breathe into it, become that version of yourself. And then,
Dr Amanda Crowell:and that's who you are in front of other people, like, I'm going
Dr Amanda Crowell:to go be the badass, I'm going to be the thought leader, I'm
Dr Amanda Crowell:going to be the king or the queen, right? The or, but what
Dr Amanda Crowell:you're saying seems to be a level underneath that, which is
Dr Amanda Crowell:like, how do you actually be who you are, first of all, knowing
Dr Amanda Crowell:who you are. And then being who you are as a coherent, singular
Dr Amanda Crowell:person across a bunch of contexts, including the one
Dr Amanda Crowell:where you're with other people is so much deeper and harder.
Dr Amanda Crowell:And you're absolutely right, would certainly get into the
Dr Amanda Crowell:shadow side of things and our true worries. And our and I just
Dr Amanda Crowell:wonder like, is that something that you feel like trying to
Dr Amanda Crowell:figure out how to play that? I don't want to say play that
Dr Amanda Crowell:game? Because that puts us back in the other space, but how to
Dr Amanda Crowell:navigate that is has that been your personal journey as well?
Mike Ganino:I think so. And I think it's in a really
Mike Ganino:interesting way. It's kind of been my journey from the
Mike Ganino:beginning. I think as a as a gay man, we are as children, often I
Mike Ganino:mean, I don't know very many people who, from birth, were
Mike Ganino:allowed to kind of fully self Express, even if you had parents
Mike Ganino:who were wonderful and lovely. You still live and operate in a
Mike Ganino:world where if your parents are straight, by the way that you're
Mike Ganino:different than your than your parents, right. And so I think
Mike Ganino:as a gay, as a gay man, I spent so much of my life creating
Mike Ganino:persona, creating a self that was passable, creating a self
Mike Ganino:that was safe in environments where I needed to be safe from,
Mike Ganino:from other people, learning how to read a room so quickly and
Mike Ganino:become who they needed me to be so that I wasn't in danger, you
Mike Ganino:know, physically or emotionally for being bullied or picked on.
Mike Ganino:And so I think for me, that was a huge part of that journey was
Mike Ganino:realizing, at some point in my early 20s, after I'd come out, I
Mike Ganino:was acting I was performing. And you do a lot of work in that
Mike Ganino:world of understanding archetypes and understanding
Mike Ganino:character and backstory and motivation. And what I realized
Mike Ganino:then is that I had the luxury in a way of kind of getting to
Mike Ganino:redefine who I was, but you also can't I say this all the time
Mike Ganino:that you are not your biographical self, right. And
Mike Ganino:you ask someone who are you? What did you do, they tell us
Mike Ganino:about their biographical self, they tell us the plot of where
Mike Ganino:they've been what they've gone through. And what they're really
Mike Ganino:saying, though, is that like, I have a pattern of doing this,
Mike Ganino:you know, there's been a repeated habit of doing this
Mike Ganino:thing. And if that's true, then we can always change it because
Mike Ganino:there is no permanent identity. And so, for me, I feel like this
Mike Ganino:has without me realizing it until the last year or two. You
Mike Ganino:know, children have a way of really shaking, shaking all of
Mike Ganino:that up and you but it's good because it's like I tried to
Mike Ganino:think of it like a like a gold. She's like a gold miner and she
Mike Ganino:just shaken the heck out of her little bend and hopefully some
Mike Ganino:of my gold gets to stick around and I get to find it. Because
Mike Ganino:that that and I think the archetypes also are helpful and
Mike Ganino:not helpful. They can be a straight jacket as much as any
Mike Ganino:Anything else can be to your self expression into figuring
Mike Ganino:out who you are, and who you are in front of other people.
Dr Amanda Crowell:One of the interesting things I've heard
Dr Amanda Crowell:you say, because you mentioned in your, in your talking there
Dr Amanda Crowell:about doing performance, and I know that you've done improv and
Dr Amanda Crowell:you were in the restaurant industry, and you've been a very
Dr Amanda Crowell:successful public speaker, you've been around lots of
Dr Amanda Crowell:different versions of this space. And I'm curious, how do
Dr Amanda Crowell:you bring one of the things I feel like you do really well is
Dr Amanda Crowell:to bring all of those things into the present moment, in a
Dr Amanda Crowell:way that feels really coherent and authentic. So how do you
Dr Amanda Crowell:feel like do you feel like that's true? And then how do you
Dr Amanda Crowell:do that?
Mike Ganino:I guess it's true. I mean, you've spent a lot of
Mike Ganino:time with me. And so and you've spent a lot of time with me, one
Mike Ganino:on one, you spend a lot of time on with me in groups where I'm
Mike Ganino:teaching. And so So yeah, if other people see that, then it
Mike Ganino:is true. What I guess I would say for me is that there's a
Mike Ganino:there's a balance between recognizing, because, again, I
Mike Ganino:think that that public speaking and whether we're talking about
Mike Ganino:public speaking in front of, you know, one person, or many, many
Mike Ganino:people, it's just patterns, it's patterns of yourself, that are
Mike Ganino:showing up there. And it's the same thing happens. I mean, when
Mike Ganino:we go to a coffee shop, and we sit down, there are patterns of
Mike Ganino:communication that we fall into, there's patterns of
Mike Ganino:relationships that we fall into, there's habitual things that
Mike Ganino:we've decided from our biographical self, our true
Mike Ganino:about us. And so we sit down with a friend at coffee to talk
Mike Ganino:about her great podcast, the great work, and, and the habits
Mike Ganino:show up. And I think that's where it gets really easy to
Mike Ganino:disconnect. It's where it gets really easy to lose our
Mike Ganino:presence. You know, people talk about charisma all the time, and
Mike Ganino:wanting to be charismatic, and we look at people and say, Ah,
Mike Ganino:that person has charisma, that person was born with charisma.
Mike Ganino:But if you think about what it actually is, charisma is just
Mike Ganino:presence. It's someone being so grounded, that they're actually
Mike Ganino:there with you in that moment. And so for me, I think that's
Mike Ganino:the place I keep trying to always readjust myself to, and
Mike Ganino:you keep getting knocked off course, right? Because your your
Mike Ganino:light and your shadow are constantly pulling, and they're
Mike Ganino:pulling us, especially when you're in front of someone else.
Mike Ganino:But even when you're sitting alone, trying to figure out who
Mike Ganino:the heck er, they're pulling on each other. And I think our job
Mike Ganino:as the person who is neither of those things, we are neither the
Mike Ganino:light nor the shadow, our person, our job is to stay
Mike Ganino:present to what both of them are sharing from the patterns, but
Mike Ganino:also stay present to like, what is actually happening in front
Mike Ganino:of us right now? And how do we want to be in that moment? And
Mike Ganino:so for me, I guess that's where that comes from this thing that
Mike Ganino:you that you noticed? Hmm.
Dr Amanda Crowell:So it's interesting when, when I first
Dr Amanda Crowell:asked the question, I was thinking like, well, you learn
Dr Amanda Crowell:something about yourself when you're doing improv, and you
Dr Amanda Crowell:bring that into the future, and you learn something about
Dr Amanda Crowell:yourself, when you're running a restaurant, you bring that into
Dr Amanda Crowell:the future, and you learn something about yourself when
Dr Amanda Crowell:you're an executive producer on a big massive TEDx stage. And
Dr Amanda Crowell:you bring that into the future. And somehow all those parts are
Dr Amanda Crowell:there and integrated. And maybe he has insight into like, how
Dr Amanda Crowell:you negotiate all those multiple sort of versions of yourself.
Dr Amanda Crowell:And what I think you actually said was, that all of those are
Dr Amanda Crowell:patterns like wallpaper, put on top of the same wall. And really
Dr Amanda Crowell:the work is going back to the original wall, and letting that
Dr Amanda Crowell:light shine through. And letting that you're the uniqueness of
Dr Amanda Crowell:it, write your own unique perspective, be the thing that
Dr Amanda Crowell:is the thread that ties all your work together. And then by the
Dr Amanda Crowell:virtue of that, you would seem and you do, you would appear
Dr Amanda Crowell:other people would recognize that you're a singular person, a
Dr Amanda Crowell:cohesive person across these, these multiple places where
Dr Amanda Crowell:you've had great success. So I think that's like a really
Dr Amanda Crowell:interesting. It's a really interesting way to talk about
Dr Amanda Crowell:performance. It's almost it's almost like you are advocating a
Dr Amanda Crowell:like, I'm one of those things called paradox. It's like a it's
Dr Amanda Crowell:like you're advocating a paradox that if you want to be
Dr Amanda Crowell:charismatic, and you know, eating Matic and on stages and
Dr Amanda Crowell:powerful, it's in the simplicity of being who you are on in that
Dr Amanda Crowell:environment and being present to the people in front of you.
Mike Ganino:I think that's true. And I think it's true that
Mike Ganino:on that wall wallpaper example you gave was so was so clear
Mike Ganino:that that the wall that all of those things are on is still you
Mike Ganino:that that wallpaper in a different room on a different
Mike Ganino:wall would have looked and felt different. And so it's, it's not
Mike Ganino:necessarily that you have to get rid of all of that wallpaper.
Mike Ganino:It's that it's that as you build upon that wallpaper, as you put
Mike Ganino:another layer as you do that it's constantly on the wall,
Mike Ganino:that is you, and the things that you've done were part of that,
Mike Ganino:but they are not, you know, the wall is always you.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Mm hmm. That's so interesting. And so
Dr Amanda Crowell:much of your work is focused on telling the stories from your
Dr Amanda Crowell:life, to connect with people, tell me how you see sort of
Dr Amanda Crowell:storytelling playing into this larger arc of your great work.
Mike Ganino:I feel that so often in in, you know, public
Mike Ganino:speaking or presenting, sharing information, you know, one to
Mike Ganino:many, or even one to one, frankly, that we that we the
Mike Ganino:pattern that comes up for us because we've learned it, we've
Mike Ganino:seen it so often. Even though we have many examples of people who
Mike Ganino:don't do this, the pattern is that we need to show up with all
Mike Ganino:the right information that we need to show up showing the
Mike Ganino:data, the figures, the facts, we need to walk people through the
Mike Ganino:the information, the logic, but the reality is we don't make any
Mike Ganino:decision in life based on all the logic, okay. None of us do,
Mike Ganino:no matter how logical you think we are. We do what we do,
Mike Ganino:because we feel like doing it. Mm hmm. And so I think that the
Mike Ganino:usage of story. In that becomes saying, I'm not a person who
Mike Ganino:just know some stuff you don't know. And I'm here to tell you,
Mike Ganino:let me tell you my experience with this information, so that I
Mike Ganino:might bring more, more more color to this and how I view it.
Mike Ganino:And so what often happens is people you know, they're
Mike Ganino:prepping for a TEDx. They're prepping for a big client
Mike Ganino:meeting. And they want to show up with all this information
Mike Ganino:they've gathered. But they went through an experience gathering
Mike Ganino:that information, there was something that made them say,
Mike Ganino:this is interesting, this is correct. And you see it even in
Mike Ganino:in speakers who don't tell their own story. So Brene, brown, she
Mike Ganino:tells her own stories, she gets on there talks about her
Mike Ganino:husband, she talks about her her journey. Simon Sinek we really
Mike Ganino:don't know anything about him, right? Except we know how he
Mike Ganino:feels about the stories he shares. So he uses stories about
Mike Ganino:other people. But he doesn't just do it like he's they're
Mike Ganino:reading your story. It's very clear, when he's talking about
Mike Ganino:fighter pilots looking out for each other, when he talks about
Mike Ganino:companies who start with why it's very clear how he stumbled
Mike Ganino:upon that information, how it changed the way he looked at
Mike Ganino:things. So even when we're sharing other people's stories,
Mike Ganino:we can do it through that wall of us, you know, we get to we
Mike Ganino:get to add it to those layers and decide and so for me, I
Mike Ganino:think that, you know, there's plenty of people who've talked
Mike Ganino:about storytelling, why it's important, all of those things.
Mike Ganino:I think the real reason I value it is because it gives you a
Mike Ganino:real sense of as you said, this, this fun word Eunice that, that
Mike Ganino:if you're telling your story, or you're telling a story, through
Mike Ganino:your perspective, ain't nobody else going to do it that way. So
Mike Ganino:you don't have to rely on facts figures, the shadow work that
Mike Ganino:tells you to be right and correct. And you can rely on
Mike Ganino:balancing the shadow in the light, the side that wants to
Mike Ganino:protect you the shadow, the light that wants to push you to
Mike Ganino:greatness, you can stand in that middle spot and share a story.
Mike Ganino:Share your story, someone else's story in a way that no one else
Mike Ganino:can. And that really allows you to have, as you said, your
Mike Ganino:Eunice
Dr Amanda Crowell:Hmm, that's so interesting. You know, it's
Dr Amanda Crowell:funny, because often, when you think about performance on one
Dr Amanda Crowell:hand, and storytelling on the other, it's easy to focus on the
Dr Amanda Crowell:experience of the speaker, right? But a lot of what you're
Dr Amanda Crowell:talking about is broadening the lens out to include not just the
Dr Amanda Crowell:speaker and their how they feel on stage and what they've chosen
Dr Amanda Crowell:to look like and the words they've chosen to say, but
Dr Amanda Crowell:instead, you keep returning back to the person, you know, are you
Dr Amanda Crowell:present with the person who's standing in front of you? Are
Dr Amanda Crowell:you telling you sharing with them how you felt about your
Dr Amanda Crowell:experience because that's what they can access? Right? Like, if
Dr Amanda Crowell:they were making decisions based on logic, which they don't, but
Dr Amanda Crowell:if they were, then we would give them the logic because it's a
Dr Amanda Crowell:relationship. And I feel like having worked with you, you
Dr Amanda Crowell:alluded to it. I'll just tell everybody. Mike was my speaking
Dr Amanda Crowell:coach for my TEDx talk. And it's funny because I showed up. He
Dr Amanda Crowell:was saying some tests some TEDx speakers, not naming any names,
Dr Amanda Crowell:show up with all the right information. And my TEDx talk at
Dr Amanda Crowell:the beginning, when he started helping me with it was really
Dr Amanda Crowell:kind of laden with psychology and statistics, and, you know,
Dr Amanda Crowell:information. And in working with you, that was really where I
Dr Amanda Crowell:sort of found the story that I do believe is the reason it has
Dr Amanda Crowell:been such a successful TED Talk, which has, you know, like, I
Dr Amanda Crowell:don't know, maybe like one and a half million views or something
Dr Amanda Crowell:right now. And I do think that it was, it was that story. And
Dr Amanda Crowell:I'm, I think that's really interesting. And it makes your
Dr Amanda Crowell:work, I have to assume a lot harder. Because you're not just
Dr Amanda Crowell:saying, like, send me your script, and I will help you find
Dr Amanda Crowell:better words, you're like, nope, come on, let's really dig in
Dr Amanda Crowell:here and figure out who you are. So how does that Does that
Dr Amanda Crowell:strike you as true?
Mike Ganino:Yeah, I think it is true. Because, again, I've
Mike Ganino:worked with some of the smartest, smart people like you,
Mike Ganino:and and those folks at TEDx Cambridge, and I've worked with
Mike Ganino:astronauts, and I've worked with, you know, people who, who
Mike Ganino:did Everest, and I've worked with people who all of these
Mike Ganino:people who've done these things. And even there, what we have to
Mike Ganino:find is, how do you feel about this thing? You're saying? How
Mike Ganino:do you know it to be true? Besides just you've done some
Mike Ganino:research or you read a book? How do you know it to be true? Where
Mike Ganino:did that come from for you? And so I think that, you know, you
Mike Ganino:you started that, that you started by sharing how maybe it
Mike Ganino:wasn't just the focus on yourself as a speaker in
Mike Ganino:performance, but the audience and I would say that it's both
Mike Ganino:because my definition so everything in my world is mic
Mike Ganino:drop, right? I've got the mic drop moment podcast, the the
Mike Ganino:group coaching program that I guide people through this
Mike Ganino:journey on is called the mic drop method. Then I've got the
Mike Ganino:mic drop method Director's Cut, which is the VIP one on one
Mike Ganino:coaching. So everything is Mic drop. Yeah. And I've got, you
Mike Ganino:know, a lot of times so someone thinks of a mic drop, you think
Mike Ganino:of a zinger, someone on stage gave a zinger, they put a
Mike Ganino:zinger, they said the thing, when I define a Mic, mic drop,
Mike Ganino:it's the moment when both the speaker and the audience are
Mike Ganino:looking in a mirror at the same time and see some kind of truth
Mike Ganino:that feels shared. Hmm. That's when you have a mic drop moment,
Mike Ganino:because those zingers on stage are, if they're just a zinger,
Mike Ganino:then they're cruel, and bullying, and the audience may
Mike Ganino:laugh, and they may say, Whoa, she really went there. But
Mike Ganino:that's not what we're really trying to do with this work.
Mike Ganino:When you say something on stage that you in that moment, feel so
Mike Ganino:you've expressed it so clearly and in such a way that that is
Mike Ganino:lived for you. And the audience has that same feeling that is
Mike Ganino:where a mic drop moment happens, it can't happen in a vacuum, it
Mike Ganino:can't happen alone. And it certainly can't happen if either
Mike Ganino:the speaker or the audience are not having that shared moment
Mike Ganino:together of looking in a mirror and seeing a similar version of
Mike Ganino:the truth. Mm
Dr Amanda Crowell:hmm. So interesting. So that feels like
Dr Amanda Crowell:it is quite deep work that you're doing with people. And
Dr Amanda Crowell:I'm, I am wondering, when you work with people, what are the
Dr Amanda Crowell:struggles that they go through to really find their mic drop
Dr Amanda Crowell:moment, like, what kinds of realizations are they having?
Dr Amanda Crowell:What skills? are they developing what's really at the core of
Dr Amanda Crowell:their transformation?
Mike Ganino:I think the big thing at the core is that whole
Mike Ganino:piece and it shows up for people in different ways. It shows up
Mike Ganino:for people in different places as we work together. But the
Mike Ganino:real core of it is that dance between the shadow and the
Mike Ganino:light. Because we have for so long lived in a world where we
Mike Ganino:are just these little Talking Heads, we go into performance
Mike Ganino:mode with our voice with our energy, and it goes way up in
Mike Ganino:your head. You know those moments, I hopefully that people
Mike Ganino:will be able to hear this. But there's those times where you
Mike Ganino:Hey, everyone, I'm here, and I'm so excited to be on the show
Mike Ganino:today. That is all from my head. That's all headed energy, it's
Mike Ganino:all presentation. It's all there. And it's not rooted, I
Mike Ganino:call it your pelvic bowl, which is you know, like your
Mike Ganino:diaphragm, like right down there. And that chakra area,
Mike Ganino:where it's like the truth is really rooted there. And when
Mike Ganino:you can come from that place, then the audience can too. And
Mike Ganino:so I think the challenge most people have, and it comes from a
Mike Ganino:different place is that for so long, we have been told, we've
Mike Ganino:told ourselves that the shadow side of us needs to remain in
Mike Ganino:the shadows, but the only way that you can use that power that
Mike Ganino:was there to protect you, that's there to teach us is to take the
Mike Ganino:flashlight out and invite the shadow into the light then you
Mike Ganino:can become whole and what we want to see on stage and we're
Mike Ganino:seeing this more and more and more with people who have 1.5
Mike Ganino:million views on their brilliant talk like you do to people like
Mike Ganino:Brene Brown and the other leaders We follow, we want
Mike Ganino:people who are coming from their wholeness.
Dr Amanda Crowell:So can you give us an example like a story
Dr Amanda Crowell:that where you feel like you could tell the difference
Dr Amanda Crowell:between maybe one of your clients or something without
Dr Amanda Crowell:naming any names, of course, where somebody was able to go
Dr Amanda Crowell:from a ahead sort of presentation space and into
Dr Amanda Crowell:their truth and their resonance and their authenticity? And the
Dr Amanda Crowell:difference was remarkable. Can you give us an example of what
Dr Amanda Crowell:that might look like?
Mike Ganino:I mean, in little ways, like, even if we're, if we
Mike Ganino:use you, as an example, yeah, you showed up and you said,
Mike Ganino:here's all of this. I'm smart. I'm a doctor, I have all the
Mike Ganino:research, I've done all the things, how do I sequence it to
Mike Ganino:get the audience to understand what I'm saying? And our work
Mike Ganino:was, and I remember, our work was like, on the balcony, and we
Mike Ganino:were both there for a public speaking event that I was
Mike Ganino:teaching. And you were you were there as a as a client, as a
Mike Ganino:participant. And we were working on a balcony one day after, you
Mike Ganino:know, after the session, because that's when we could fit it in.
Mike Ganino:And I would say that, that that sometimes we also think of this
Mike Ganino:and we think like, oh, bringing a flashlight to the shadow, it
Mike Ganino:must be some big thing. And editor. No, sometimes it can be
Mike Ganino:really small. That moment, when you say actually, like, here's
Mike Ganino:what I didn't, and I and I in your in your talk, you talk
Mike Ganino:about this moment, at the beginning of it, where you share
Mike Ganino:the truth of not being able to be the kind of mom you want it
Mike Ganino:to be because you couldn't get down roll around on the floor. I
Mike Ganino:mean, I've thought of that so much lately, by the way, myself,
Mike Ganino:as I'm like, Oh, my dad bod is let's get clear. That was a
Mike Ganino:little bit of that for you even. And so the what is the
Mike Ganino:difference? I don't know, because we didn't have a, we
Mike Ganino:didn't have a TEDx talk before. Right? That went out. And we
Mike Ganino:could say, look, only 100,000 people watched it, right. But
Mike Ganino:what we can see is that 1.5 plus million people were moved to
Mike Ganino:watch, to share, to like to comment to send it to their
Mike Ganino:friends to send it to their their sisters and brothers. And
Mike Ganino:so that is because you took a look at the light and the shadow
Mike Ganino:you You danced in there. And you told some truth, that when you
Mike Ganino:held it up in the mirror and looked at it, it felt like
Mike Ganino:truth. And when the audience did on their side, it felt like
Mike Ganino:truth. And that is why that talk is so popular. Other people,
Mike Ganino:we've had them again come in where they are this really kind
Mike Ganino:of disembodied version, our culture, our culture loves
Mike Ganino:disembodiment, we've been raised to be disembodied, to not
Mike Ganino:actually feel how we feel. We tell children, you know, I try
Mike Ganino:to be really aware that with my daughter, if she's crying, cuz
Mike Ganino:she bumped her head, not to tell her it's okay. Right, but to say
Mike Ganino:like, oh, I can tell that that really hurt, I can tell you're
Mike Ganino:embarrassed, really to let her own the fact that whatever she
Mike Ganino:feels, we've literally been conditioned to live in our head.
Mike Ganino:And so we have to figure out how do I make new choices to get out
Mike Ganino:of my head and into the experiences iPad, to feel then
Mike Ganino:to remember what it felt like when I couldn't get on the
Mike Ganino:floor. Or when I couldn't get up off the floor, in my case the
Mike Ganino:other day, to play with my children that I wasn't able to
Mike Ganino:be the kind of dad or mom that I wanted to be for them. That I
Mike Ganino:think is the clearest less, because a lot of times people
Mike Ganino:hear this shadow enlightened, they're like, ooh, she's really
Mike Ganino:invited a woowoo guy to her podcast, they've gone off the
Mike Ganino:deep end, you probably thought that you're like, I didn't know,
Mike Ganino:I think we're gonna be talking about shadows and lights and
Mike Ganino:archetypes today. But I like it. The reality is that, that none
Mike Ganino:of that is woowoo. You don't have to go to like, I mean, you
Mike Ganino:can certainly could help to like an Ayahuasca retreat, or start
Mike Ganino:micro dosing psilocybin to look and say, What is my lived
Mike Ganino:experience? And how do I drop into the truth of that. And so
Mike Ganino:that's an example that I've that you had, I've had that similar
Mike Ganino:example, working with executives who are who are out there trying
Mike Ganino:to fundraise for their company, and helping them to find like,
Mike Ganino:some truth in why this matters to them some truth in the kinds
Mike Ganino:of people they help. And it really does shift. It shifts you
Mike Ganino:also as a speaker from a place of performing, of having to put
Mike Ganino:on a mask, to stripping away everything and just kind of
Mike Ganino:showing what you got.
Dr Amanda Crowell:So interesting. And you know, when
Dr Amanda Crowell:I think about the time that we spent on that balcony, it's
Dr Amanda Crowell:funny that you mentioned the balcony, I was right back there.
Dr Amanda Crowell:And it's interesting, because you talked about, you know,
Dr Amanda Crowell:perfectionism is most often when you're talking about the like,
Dr Amanda Crowell:you need to show up and be the one with all the information. I
Dr Amanda Crowell:often think of perfectionism as being you know, Perf defensive
Dr Amanda Crowell:failures last stand like the last time when we're trying to
Dr Amanda Crowell:keep ourselves from our greatness really comes at that
Dr Amanda Crowell:last minute, it's time to send it out into the world. And for
Dr Amanda Crowell:some reason, you just can't let it go. So you chip away at it
Dr Amanda Crowell:and chip away at it and till all the uniqueness, all the
Dr Amanda Crowell:uniqueness, all everything has been stripped away. And it's got
Dr Amanda Crowell:down to the brass tacks of what we're allowed to do. It's like
Dr Amanda Crowell:that moment. And I remember standing on that balcony talking
Dr Amanda Crowell:to you and you sort of taking one small piece of the talk,
Dr Amanda Crowell:because man, I had a lot crammed in there, there was a lot more
Dr Amanda Crowell:in the original script then ended up on that stage. And it's
Dr Amanda Crowell:a good thing. Because when you said, why don't you just drop
Dr Amanda Crowell:into this moment right here in the talk, and I think it was the
Dr Amanda Crowell:Candy Crush joke, which people do sometimes they're like, oh,
Dr Amanda Crowell:yeah, Candy Crush. Soda takes the dates to talk. And I, you
Dr Amanda Crowell:were like, slowed down. And as you see, you mentioned some ants
Dr Amanda Crowell:that you have who's like, often has a cocktail on her hand, and
Dr Amanda Crowell:it's like, got a lot to say. And you sort of, in my mind, I can
Dr Amanda Crowell:still see right now, you sort of like doing the thing with the
Dr Amanda Crowell:glass and the like, head bob and me thinking like, oh, when I'm
Dr Amanda Crowell:not trying to be perfect, when I'm not trying to say everything
Dr Amanda Crowell:and look smart, and be who a lot of people think that I would be
Dr Amanda Crowell:given my background and stuff. I can, and I drop into mics. And
Dr Amanda Crowell:then or aren't, I guess, as people say, then I get to be a
Dr Amanda Crowell:you your version of me and not I get to be a me or version of me,
Dr Amanda Crowell:I get to be that that person dancing in that space between? I
Dr Amanda Crowell:am very knowledgeable. And you know, I have I can drop into the
Dr Amanda Crowell:experience I'm in right now. And I think it made a big
Dr Amanda Crowell:difference. And I feel like that's why, you know, that was
Dr Amanda Crowell:really the the work you're talking about.
Mike Ganino:Yeah, we tend to the the idea of cramming and
Mike Ganino:everything that you've just mentioned, yeah, is is really
Mike Ganino:common. It's probably one of the top five, maybe top three things
Mike Ganino:that are the presenting symptoms with someone, when someone shows
Mike Ganino:up to my door, or my Zoom screen, whichever it would be.
Mike Ganino:And it's because we've been taught to, to bring all of those
Mike Ganino:parts to bring the intelligence, the smarts to get the good grade
Mike Ganino:have enough information that they can't possibly deny me. And
Mike Ganino:so then we worry, do I have the latest information? Am I gonna
Mike Ganino:forget a number? Am I going to remember to say this? Is this
Mike Ganino:right? Is there a way they could refute me and so that whole
Mike Ganino:time, we are triggering that shadow self to protect us again
Mike Ganino:up there? And we're not actually being ourselves? And that whole
Mike Ganino:idea of slowing down? And really get into your body of like, when
Mike Ganino:was it? How did it feel to know this? How did you know you
Mike Ganino:needed this? And I think that that we've been taught so much.
Mike Ganino:And so many of the public speaking books and things out
Mike Ganino:there, teach us that like to attract an audience to get an
Mike Ganino:audience. It's through all these like superficial things, and,
Mike Ganino:and all of these organizing of your, you know, tell them what
Mike Ganino:you're going to tell them, tell them what you told them and do
Mike Ganino:it again and have a thesis and three steps. In the end. It's
Mike Ganino:like, but that's not how you actually experienced this. You
Mike Ganino:didn't read something and say like, here's a thesis on this,
Mike Ganino:here are three things I learned. Now I know it to be true, I must
Mike Ganino:go share it with the world. You had a moment where you had a
Mike Ganino:lived experience and said, Oh my gosh, let me explore this. And I
Mike Ganino:think more people do have that. And I think what we've been
Mike Ganino:taught is it. So much of living in that headspace of all of
Mike Ganino:those superficial things of all those like sure risks of
Mike Ganino:communication, whether in big groups or small groups, but
Mike Ganino:really what audiences respond to every single time, our energy.
Mike Ganino:And we are attracted to speakers, thought leaders,
Mike Ganino:storytellers who have this steady flow of of presence and
Mike Ganino:are able to transmute not data, but transmute experience for us.
Mike Ganino:And I think that's what you were able to do in that talk with,
Mike Ganino:you know, obviously 1.5 million plus times.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Yeah, wow. This is really very interesting,
Dr Amanda Crowell:like very deep, thought provoking work. And I wonder as
Dr Amanda Crowell:somebody who certainly tries to do deep thought provoking work,
Dr Amanda Crowell:and migrate work as well. I'm wondering if you've struggled to
Dr Amanda Crowell:bring it to the world? And if you have like, what, what has
Dr Amanda Crowell:your struggle Ben to get speakers or others to really
Dr Amanda Crowell:grapple with this level of experience and to transform
Dr Amanda Crowell:their work?
Mike Ganino:I think it's it's so meta, because I'm gonna say
Mike Ganino:exactly what I just said, but about me, I think that the
Mike Ganino:challenge has been believing the lies that I needed to have, you
Mike Ganino:know, the most followers that I needed to worry about email
Mike Ganino:growth, that I needed to worry about having the biggest events
Mike Ganino:that I needed to worry about the best ROI of ads or something,
Mike Ganino:and that I needed to explain it as something other than what it
Mike Ganino:is that I needed to trick people by telling them what they want
Mike Ganino:and then giving them what they need. No, I'm just telling them
Mike Ganino:what the hell I do. And if they want it, they can come and get
Mike Ganino:it. And if they don't, it's totally okay. And what I'm
Mike Ganino:finding, and I'm still tiptoeing through this all the time, is
Mike Ganino:that the more that I speak the way I'm speaking with you today,
Mike Ganino:the more that I share these ideas, the more the right,
Mike Ganino:people start to come around and say, What's going on over here.
Mike Ganino:This is an interesting, this is an interesting house, what's
Mike Ganino:happening in this house, I might like to come and visit and that
Mike Ganino:I don't need, you know, 50,000 followers on Instagram, the 4000
Mike Ganino:that I have, who love my stuff, and who get help for my stuff.
Mike Ganino:That's enough. I can't even serve 4000 people, by the way,
Mike Ganino:if they all came in and said, I want to be your client. I
Mike Ganino:couldn't help them all anyway, right now, I don't have I don't
Mike Ganino:I don't want to have a huge team. I don't I've been through
Mike Ganino:that. I've done that many, many times. In the coaching business
Mike Ganino:on the restaurant side on the hospitality side. On the tech
Mike Ganino:side, I've built lots of big teams, I don't want to do it. I
Mike Ganino:want to work with people who are who are who want to do this
Mike Ganino:work. And so I would say that my challenge in this has been what
Mike Ganino:I just said the challenges for the top three challenges people
Mike Ganino:bring me up, cramming so much in thinking that my program needs
Mike Ganino:to have eight modules. 42 bonuses, 77 steps, and that it
Mike Ganino:can't just be let's just sit because honestly like thinking
Mike Ganino:back to that day with you on the roof, or on the roof. And now
Mike Ganino:we're on a roof I've expanded rooftop
Mike Ganino:balcony. Yeah, yeah. You know. And her cocktails,
Mike Ganino:oh, it's not safe for her on the on the rooftop balcony, that
Mike Ganino:glass of wine. But the the reality is that day like I
Mike Ganino:didn't learn from anyone to do what I did with you. I hadn't
Mike Ganino:gotten to a certification. I haven't been told by anybody.
Mike Ganino:Like, this is how you do it. I've learned, you know, some
Mike Ganino:techniques for directing from the years that I was in improv
Mike Ganino:and the years that I worked with, with others, I learned
Mike Ganino:things about entertaining script writing and speech writing and
Mike Ganino:things like that. But I never learned to like look someone in
Mike Ganino:the eyes and say, What do you want to say here? Low down and
Mike Ganino:tell us what you want to say? And how you know it's true. Why
Mike Ganino:do you know that to be true? And I, I find that when I allow
Mike Ganino:myself to live in that space more, then if I can remind
Mike Ganino:myself to not worry about 50,000 followers and the biggest email
Mike Ganino:list and tile but to just make spiritual love consensual
Mike Ganino:spiritual love to the people who've shown up, all the good
Mike Ganino:things happen. Hmm.
Unknown:You know, so I keep feeling I feel like maybe this
Unknown:doesn't come through in this package, I don't know. But I
Unknown:feel like I keep returning to this paradox of like, it is it
Unknown:is the like, the dropping in the being with the other persons
Unknown:that it is the connection. And when you said i Nobody taught me
Unknown:how to look in someone's eyes. I was in my immediately in my own
Unknown:mind, I was like, or has every minute of your life taught you.
Unknown:And the it's in the dropping into the relationship. And being
Unknown:completely present. It's almost like your own self, the wall,
Unknown:right? The original wall becomes a great mixer, right? Like a
Unknown:mixer in a audio sense, where like, all the different tracks
Unknown:are playing at the same time. Everything that you need from
Unknown:those individual experiences drop into this, you know, it's
Unknown:comes back to that same thing, like who is Mike Canino, Mike
Unknown:Canino is all these things, He is funny, and he is deep, and he
Unknown:understands business. And he's struggled with things that he
Unknown:tells us about. And all of that is always sort of vibrating
Unknown:through the mic and you know, wall, and when you drop into the
Unknown:relationship, then it can come through the way that it needs to
Unknown:is seems to be the way that it works. And that is like such a
Unknown:lovely sort of balancing with pulling on in one direction on
Unknown:the relationship and the moment being present in that. And then
Unknown:on the other side, it's like, just the, the uniqueness of it.
Unknown:And I'm sure that the you know, the shadow side and light side
Unknown:is all dancing through that mixer to that. It's just It's
Unknown:just remarkable how your work seems to bring up sort of every
Unknown:facet of a person.
Mike Ganino:It is true that the it goes going back to the the
Mike Ganino:conversation we had earlier about the wall. Yeah, I really
Mike Ganino:do think it's never about stripping away the wallpaper.
Mike Ganino:I'm going to go back and double down on that. Because I do think
Mike Ganino:what you've just said, Here is the truth. Like, yeah, the
Mike Ganino:original wall is there and that wallpaper was all lessons that
Mike Ganino:brought you to this place that helps you see things a certain
Mike Ganino:way. And if you if you close your eyes and you get really
Mike Ganino:silent and you place your full hand on that wall, and you say
Mike Ganino:what's the energy of this wall? Then I think we have a chance of
Mike Ganino:really starting to figure out what is our great work
Dr Amanda Crowell:Mic drop, drop. So I am so happy that you
Dr Amanda Crowell:came on here. And we had this conversation and I am 100%
Dr Amanda Crowell:confident that a lot of the people who are listening are
Dr Amanda Crowell:thinking, how can I get that guy to help me really drop into my,
Dr Amanda Crowell:you know, the fullness of myself as well as the opportunities
Dr Amanda Crowell:inside my stories? So how can people learn more about you and
Dr Amanda Crowell:get in touch if they'd like to work with you?
Mike Ganino:I'm really easy to find, once you learn to spell
Mike Ganino:Canino, G, A, G, A, and I, you know, the good news about Mike
Mike Ganino:Canino is that I kind of win the SEO game. So if you type that
Mike Ganino:in, you're going to find my website at Mike canino.com.
Mike Ganino:There, you're going to learn about the mike drop method, you
Mike Ganino:can learn about the director's cut, which is one on one work,
Mike Ganino:you can read blogs, you can listen to podcasts, you can see
Mike Ganino:really cool illustrated animals, the websites, a little bit of a
Mike Ganino:story itself.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Yeah, like your new website, got to try.
Mike Ganino:I really try to say like, if I'm going to be a coach
Mike Ganino:that's here to help other people shine, why would I have a
Mike Ganino:website? That's just pictures of me? And then I took it even
Mike Ganino:further and said, What am I teaching here? I'm teaching
Mike Ganino:storytelling. So it's this really fun illustrated journey.
Mike Ganino:So even if you're like, I don't like this guy, go check out the
Mike Ganino:website. And, and it's gorgeous. Thank you. Yeah, really lucky
Mike Ganino:work, some great designers and illustrators. So Mike
Mike Ganino:canino.com, and I'm on the socials. And Mike Canino, you
Mike Ganino:can find me on all of them at Mike Canino. So those are all
Mike Ganino:the easy spots to get me.
Dr Amanda Crowell:I love it. Well, I'll also put all of those
Dr Amanda Crowell:in the show notes, of course, so they don't have to even remember
Dr Amanda Crowell:how to spell Guinea, you know, they can just click it. And I
Dr Amanda Crowell:want to add my personal encouragement to go you know, I
Dr Amanda Crowell:work with Mike myself, we're going to actually do some work
Dr Amanda Crowell:together soon on my new keynote around my new book, great work,
Dr Amanda Crowell:how to do what matters most without sacrificing everything
Dr Amanda Crowell:else. So I can add my personal recommendation. He's an amazing
Dr Amanda Crowell:partner in developing those things. And I just want to thank
Dr Amanda Crowell:you so much for being on the podcast.
Mike Ganino:Thank you so much for having me, thank you for you
Mike Ganino:know, it takes a lot of work people out there putting on
Mike Ganino:these shows and putting these podcasts and a lot of effort and
Mike Ganino:a lot of like audience building. And, you know, I know how much
Mike Ganino:that means to you and how much you care. So the fact that you
Mike Ganino:were willing to have me here and share me with your people means
Mike Ganino:a lot to me. So thank you.
Dr Amanda Crowell:Now, my pleasure. Thank you for joining
Dr Amanda Crowell:me today on the unleashing your great work podcast. If you liked
Dr Amanda Crowell:what you heard, please subscribe and leave a five star review.
Dr Amanda Crowell:And hey, don't forget to check out the aligned time journal.
Dr Amanda Crowell:You need support to get started. Stay at it and unleash your
Dr Amanda Crowell:great work out into the world. See you next time.
