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Zane Landin recently graduated from Cal Poly Pomona with a Bachelor of Science degree in Communication and Public Relations. He was diagnosed as a neurodiverse individual at an early age which led in part to his strong interest in and advocacy for mental health awareness. What I discovered during our interview is that Zane is quite a good storyteller which should serve him well as he enters the job market. As you will hear in this episode, Zane already has accomplished a great deal including starting and operating his own online digital magazine entitled PositiveVibes. PositiveVibes tells stories about mental health, inspiration and wellness. Zane’s stories, engaging communication style, and his positive attitude about life make him quite an engaging guest. For a person just out of college he is quite a passionate human being who will help many realize that they are more unstoppable than they think. About the Guest: Zane Landin is a recent graduate from Cal Poly Pomona with a Bachelor of Science in Communication and Public Relations. He is from Chino, California. He has interned at places like USAID, NASA, and General Motors. He is a mental health and disability advocate, queer rights activist, entrepreneur, and positive change maker. He identifies as Hispanic, Queer, and Disabled. He is the founder of PositiveVibes Magazine, which is a digital magazine dedicated to telling authentic stories about mental health, wellness, and inspiration. He attended the first-ever Mental Health Youth Action Forum in Washington, D.C., where he met President Biden, Selena Gomez, Dr. Murthy, and Dr. Biden. Out of hundreds of applications, 30 young advocates across the country were selected to advocate for mental health. He is a passionate storyteller who writes for the Power of Positivity and Entrepreneur about wellness, psychology, and culture. He has been featured on over 50 platforms like Seek the Joy Podcast, Forbes, and Coming from the Heart Podcast. How to connect with Zane: Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zanelandin/ Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zane-landin-b2417a187/ Personal Twitter: https://twitter.com/LandinZane PositiveVibes Magazine website: https://positivevibesmag.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes
Michael Hingson 00:00 Access cast and accessibility initiative presents unstoppable mindset, the podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet Michael Hingson 00:15 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson 01:16 Hello, once again, I'm Mike Hingson, your host for unstoppable mindset. And I have the honor pleasure and joy of interviewing today is Zane Landin, who is a recent graduate of Cal Poly Pomona. Now, many of you may have heard of Cal Poly Pomona in one way or another. One of the stories I know about it is that it is one of two Cal Cal Poly campuses. The other is in San Luis Obispo. And each year, each of the campuses design half of a float for the Tournament of Roses Parade. And then they come together, put the float pieces together and make a whole float that you can see every year in the parade. What a remarkable feat of engineering. These campuses are a few 100 miles apart, or at least a couple 100 miles apart but yet they design these half floats in a way they go. Zane, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Zane Landin 02:21 Well, thank you so much for having me today. Michael Hingson 02:23 Have you worked on floats at all? Zane Landin 02:25 I worked on one copper pipe on a float. Funnily enough, I wasn't a student. I don't remember when it was it was the time I was in high school. It was the buckets and like it was something like that, like the pirates. I did get to sit on the float and you know, help put things on it. So that was super exciting. But I never got involved in both float throughout my time at university. But it is really admirable the work that they do. Michael Hingson 02:51 Well, I know that it Cal Poly, you got your Bachelor's in communications and public relations, which is really pretty cool. So definitely want to learn a little bit about what got you started down that road. But why don't you tell us about little of your stories growing up and all that let's start at the beginning as they say, oh, gosh, a long time ago in a town Far, far away, right? Zane Landin 03:18 Yeah, little quaint town called chino. I've been here 24 years. And growing up, I had, you know, kind of a nuclear family of mother and father and my sister and we had a category. And you know, yeah, of course, I had, you know, a really supportive family, it doesn't mean that we always had everything definitely times or we struggled or my parents definitely I saw stress on their shoulders, but they always gave us what we desired or what we needed. And I'm always grateful for what they've been able to do. And growing up, you know, I'm very open about, you know, having a decline in my mental health very young. And so I experienced what it feels like to have mental health conditions and because I'm, I'm always advocating for mental health, I try my best to be open about it when I was young, but you know, I saw a psychologist very young, I was also put on a 504 plan and, you know, throughout elementary school because I had trouble socializing and concentrating in school, which I'm sure I still have today. And so, you know, I identify as, as neurodiverse and these different aspects. So that was, those were some of the things that definitely shaped me growing up. But it's the getting that support dynamic, very young helped me kind of come to terms with who I am today, and kind of helped me move forward with you know, a job or whatever it is I'm looking for. It always helps it all supported me. Michael Hingson 04:43 How did you and kind of When did you get diagnosed as being neurodiverse or divergent? Zane Landin 04:52 me I had to ticket on a 504 plan. So that was when I was I don't remember the exact time because I wasn't exactly made aware that I was diagnosed I didn't know like, as a kid, I didn't really know. And I kind of found out recently because I never knew really what a 504 plan was when I was in elementary school. But now I learned recently that I was on it, I remember that my parents, my family did tell me that, you know, I am neurodiverse and I had trouble concentrating in class, which definitely makes sense for the sometimes I have trouble concentrating class now. I mean, not anymore, since I'm not in school. But you know, and sometimes I have trouble with time management. So Moyes working to try and fix those things or make myself better at them. But it was, yeah, I don't have the exact age. But it was definitely like when I was maybe in second or first grade, something like that. Michael Hingson 05:40 What is that 504 plan. It was just for me, Zane Landin 05:43 it was a specialized plan that just helped, that gave me accommodations that I needed to kind of be in an equal and equal level playing field with my peers. So I was given like, one on one tutoring, and I was given less homework. And also I was, I was able to see a counselor throughout. If we met every other week or once a week, I'm pretty sure was every other week, there was like a specialized program where I was given, you know, like opportunities to be equal to my peers if it was cheating, or like somewhere, and I have to lie. Michael Hingson 06:16 Do you know why it's called a 504? Plan? No, I am not sure. But I'm wondering if somehow it has to do with section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. And that's very well, probably is in a sense where it came from, because that's where a lot of the original issues dealing with disabilities and creating some level of equality and access came from a lot of affirmative action and so on. Right came from there. And that's probably where it was from. But you went to high school and you had support, you had a good support system. It sounds like Zane Landin 06:53 it was interesting. I actually did not I was on I was on a 504 plan in high school. I was in elementary school, and then going to middle school in high school. I was not, and I still did. Okay, so I think the I think I was lucky enough to get good enough resources in grammar school, that were the building blocks for me to kind of succeed in middle and high school. I definitely still struggling in middle school. But I just, you know, my mom helped me a lot in remembering what I was taught and how to, you know, deal with time management and to actually set time aside to study. That helped a lot. Michael Hingson 07:27 And, but you didn't have that. In high school? Do you know why? Just out of curiosity? Zane Landin 07:35 No, I don't know why. No, I think maybe because I think what was gonna happen was, you know, going through middle school, they were going to see if I needed to have a poor, but I was doing okay. And I was doing pretty well enough that maybe they didn't think I needed one. And obviously I didn't know what it was. So I didn't advocate to be on one myself and my parents decided I didn't need it. So yeah, that's kind of what happened. Michael Hingson 07:58 Did you ever get involved in negotiations for an IEP and ended by an individualized education plan? Zane Landin 08:05 No, I never was on an IEP. Yeah. Okay. Well, Michael Hingson 08:09 but you went through high school and you obviously survived it. And then what, what made you go to Cal Poly Pomona? Zane Landin 08:17 Well, I will say a couple of money is very close to the high school I went to I attended one of high school, it's probably like five minutes away from it. And from where I live, it's probably 15 or 20 minutes away. So that was a huge contributing factor to where I wanted to go. And I wanted to attend a university that was very affordable. So I chose Cal Poly Pomona, and I have known about Catholic Moana my entire life. If people know about the famous Winnie living, you know, I remember going on the freeway and seeing that 20 billion I was like, This is the weirdest building, what is that place? And I don't even remember asking as a kid, but I learned I was Chapala. And it was just very nice to actually attend it by digging into other universities like you UCI UCR Chapman, they're all expensive for one and they were pretty far from where I was. So we've been a large community, or I wouldn't live there. But I wanted to help my family save money. And so I ended up attending Catholic Moana and it was great experience. Michael Hingson 09:15 Why was it less expensive to go to Cal Poly than something like one of the UC campuses? Zane Landin 09:21 Well, I'm pretty sure UC campuses are private, so that I think but it's not there. Michael Hingson 09:27 They're not private. They're part of the University of California. It's their state operated, but anyway, go ahead. Zane Landin 09:33 So then they're not private. Nevermind. I don't know. I just they were more expensive. The tuition was a lot higher. I don't know why. But they just were I mean, you know, a lot of Cal States are inexpensive, which I think is great. You know, especially for Michael Hingson 09:47 California state system. Right? Zane Landin 09:49 Yeah. Yeah. All part of the CSU 23 campuses. Of course they're all gonna be different. I don't know the tuition is for all of them. But I like that the CSU is really are Like equitable and they're like creating a lot more opportunities for especially first gen students for people who come from underrepresented backgrounds or low income. Yeah, and Cal Poly has been named many awards for helping people like migrate out of like lower class middle class. That's like something they received like a couple of years ago, which is really exciting. Michael Hingson 10:21 I always kind of remember the Cal State system, my brother went to Cal State Fullerton and I went to UC Irvine. And as I heard explanations, I think, the University California system is kind of higher oriented toward more research and things. And a lot of people told me that the whole California state system as opposed to UC was, well doing research and other things. Also, more teaching oriented, which was, I think, a good thing. I enjoyed UC Irvine. But if I couldn't have gotten there would have been interesting and fun to go to one of the Cal State Systems. I grew up in Palmdale. So I did live at UC Irvine, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Of course, when I went there was a long time ago, there were 2700 students at the campus the first year I was there, so it's a great time to be there. Zane Landin 11:14 Oh my gosh, now universities are a little overpopulated. Even at Cal Poly, there's 27,000. Students. Michael Hingson 11:23 I think there are at least that many at UC Irvine. I don't know how many there are. But I've been back there a few times. And it has grown a tremendous amount. And as you said, they're overpopulated and growing. But Zane Landin 11:37 go ahead. Oh, sir, I was gonna say, and I have heard what you said. I didn't know that CSU was teaching oriented. But I did know that, you know, the UCS were very heavy research oriented. Michael Hingson 11:48 But you know, there's nothing like college life. And you obviously sound like you enjoyed it, and so on. What made you choose to decide to go into communications and public relations as kind of a field and get a degree in that? Zane Landin 12:04 Yeah, it's good question. Because there's a journey with that. I started off couple has a really interesting major called a science, technology and society. And pretty sure it was started in the 70s. At Stanford, I'm pretty sure. And it really is this kind of multi disciplinary look at science, ethics, and stem. It was interesting. And I was really looking into going into some sort of policy career. And the major itself kind of propelled you to kind of go into a science, technology policy kind of position. It was always hard to find positions like that, or internships. So it was always difficult. So I was kind of just looking for general, you know, positions or internships where I could work on policy or legislation, but I never really landed a position doing that. And I think it was, it was going into my fourth year beer. My third year, I was president of the College of Education and integrative studies Council. And they're, they're designed to oversee the clubs in the college. And I wanted to better the communications between the organization and the college. So I worked with the communication specialist at the college. And her name is Ashley Jones. And she also mentioned that she was looking for a intern like munications intern. And I had different internships from different organizations, but I never had an internship base, all around communications, and I had no idea what that meant, or what that looked like. So it was and it was, you know, it's very, you know, it was only two or three hours a week, it wasn't a huge commitment. So I was like, why not? And I really enjoyed working with her. So I decided to, and a lot of stuff that was working on, it was very similar to what I was already doing in my extracurricular activities. And what I will say is, since Cal Poly is that is, you know, it's kind of known as a commuter school, it was kind of hard to find a community there for myself, what I had to do as since I wasn't living in the dorms, or the, you know, residence halls, they call it, I needed to find somewhere I could kind of be myself and find a community. So I just kind of joined, you know, public extracurriculars, I ended up there my entire university career, I was involved in a lot. But you know, at the beginning, I just was involved in the College of Education, and integrated studies councils. Firstly, I joined, and I just really loved it. So, extracurriculars kind of, kind of gave me value and purpose, more so than my classes, because those are classes. And, you know, you go to class and you leave, but there was something that won't I kept me there. Something that, you know, was the culture for me. So, extracurriculars were a huge thing for me, and it really helped me. I honestly would have imagined if I wasn't really involved in extracurriculars, I would have become depressed Just because if I was just going to classes and coming home, I wasn't, I wouldn't be making friends, I wouldn't be building relationships. So a lot of my success comes from the extracurricular activities I was able to do anyways. So, I love doing that. And so when I, when I felt that the work that I was doing for this internship was so similar to the work that I was doing with extracurriculars, that all kind of connected, and I, you know, I talk to her about what is a career in communications look like. And she kind of said, it's kind of what I'm doing, you know, writing stories, connecting with people from university planning events. And that's all stuff that I love doing. I just never knew that you could turn that into a career. And I didn't really know much about the communications industry or PR industry, I didn't even know these careers really existed. But it's funny because I actually took a career readiness program, or course, because I really didn't know what I was doing. So my second year, I was like, I gotta take this career course, because I really don't know what I'm doing. And we took like, a career aptitude test. And like, number two, or number four was public relations. But I was focusing on the rest, I was like, I didn't really know what public relations was. So I kind of ignored it. So it was always so funny that it kind of circled back. And I actually did find myself going into PR, and communications and it kind of a natural way. And she taught me kind of everything she knew. I mean, that's a lie. But she taught me a lot about communications and the stuff that she worked on, and I loved the work I was doing. So the year, and my fourth year, I changed my major to communications, and with an emphasis in public relations, and absolutely loved it. I love the classes. I love the professors. And I loved every single part about it and their extracurriculars. Because I got involved in the communications Honor Society, and the PRSSA, which is the PR, Student Society of America. So all that stuff just really helped build my passion for storytelling and communications. And through that, I just got involved in so many more organizations. And that's where I build a passion for communications and disability, because I think that there's kind of a missing link there, that a lot of the times I see a lot of disability organizations are always pushing for, you know, legality or equity, which I'm definitely needed. But I love focusing on the storytelling aspect of how do we actually get people with disabilities on screen on shows, and stories where people just see them, you know, more and see them as people rather than what the stereotypes are out there, or what the ablest ideas are out there. So it's definitely all the stuff I've learned in university about communication says kind of child itself, and so my passion for mental health and disability as well. And that's, hopefully that answers your question. Why decided to major in PR? Michael Hingson 17:44 Well, no, you did. It's, it's absolutely a great answer to the question, and you bring up so many topics with, with that kind of an answer. One of the things that immediately comes to mind for me, and I realized that this is more of probably a blindness oriented thing over other kinds of persons with disabilities. But it's ironic in the world today, how many different ways we're doing more to dispense information. And the ability to do it in an accessible inclusive way exists and we're not doing it. I just watched a commercial this morning, using what is it the Queen song, we will rock you and You here we will, we will rock you. You hear the song for a while, and then it goes away. No talking nothing to say what the commercial is for. So I as a person who happens to be blind, would never know that. It is Qatar airlines. And there are so many commercials like that, while we're creating technologies that make things so much more potentially available to everyone that is to make them to make information and make items inclusive. We're not doing it. We're making them less inclusive than they used to be. And there's no reason for that. So I sincerely hope as you go out into the workforce and get to do more that, you know, you'll you'll keep that in mind because I do appreciate that your disability is different. And that's great. You've got issues that you get to address regarding the things that you deal with on a day to day basis. But we all deal with the fact that we tend to leave out groups that we shouldn't, and there's no reason that we need to do that nearly as much today as we used to do. Zane Landin 19:58 I agree and I don't plays an advocate. So I'm always advocating, because I'm not an accessibility specialist, I do not know much about it. But I will be in spaces where we need it. And so there are times where I say, are we doing accessible communications? Like, is our communications accessible? Do we have an accessibility person here? And if we don't, why not? Why isn't there an accessibility team? So things like that. And there are many companies that don't have accessible, I mean, I love seeing a lot of accessibility drops coming up. But there's, there's still a lot of companies that do not even consider it. And there are many companies that don't even consider, you know, the accessibility and Dei, you know, DIA is becoming more popular. But even when you look at I don't remember the exact percentage, it was like, out of all the DI initiatives coming out of these different companies around 8%, or even 4%. I remember the exact it's very low on it, and how disability is included in di initiatives, saying Michael Hingson 20:56 well, and it's not included in di, which is really the big problem when we talk about diversity and so on. We never include or rarely, rarely ever include the whole issue of disabilities, which is why I like the term inclusion. And the way I'll define it is you either are inclusive, or you're not, you can't be partially inclusive, it really has to be a quantum leap, either you're going to be inclusive, which means you're going to include disabilities, or you're not inclusive. It is it ought to be that simple. I interviewed someone a few weeks ago, and we were talking about disabilities and and this person happened to say, well, there's a problem, we talk about disability. So people think it's a lack of ability. And my response is change the meaning of the word, we've already done it with diversity. The reality is that a disability is a characteristic. And one of the things that I point out to a number of people is, I have yet to find one person in this world who doesn't have a physical disability. That is to say the vast majority of people have eyesight. And what happens when the lights go out, and you don't have a light to guide your way. You're stuck. Thomas Edison provided the light bulb so that people who have liked dependency can see in the dark, but it doesn't change the fact that they have a disability. And can you learn to overcome that? Sure. But we do it mainly with technology, but don't leave other people behind just because you forget your disability and you cover it up. And it is one of the things that we really need to address in society. Zane Landin 22:37 I agree with what you're saying, especially again, language and communications is so powerful. And I know that you will believe that that you know, the word disabled means inability. But I love that there are more content creators and people even on LinkedIn, that are pushing this narrative that it's not that that is disabled, or disability is not inability, and that they are kind of changing the narrative of the term, disability, as empowering as how it's been described before, and how it's been used against people with disabilities. And that was not their choice, that term was, you know, cemented onto them, they were not the ones to say, you know, that this is wrong, that's how they were. But you know, people who didn't have disabilities kind of put that on them. So it was never a choice, Michael Hingson 23:21 we are slowly getting to the point where people are recognizing that I and you and other people are not disabled, we may have a disability. But again, I can point that out for everyone. So there really is a difference between disabled and disability. And the fact is, I am not disabled, I can be a person with a characteristic that classifies me as being a person with a disability. But that's a whole different story than saying that I don't have ability. And it's perfectly reasonable to evolve to take a non verb and make it a verb. Or to make it a different kind of part of the language, but to evolve us into recognizing that disability is an appropriate term to describe any number of people and you talked about the conversation. And the fact that a very low percentage of people in the whole dei world ever talk about disabilities, even though according to the CDC, 25% of Americans have some sort of disability. It's really ironic. Zane Landin 24:33 There's they're running, and you know, and businesses are not, they're losing out on huge market and I'm not saying that's the only reason that they should be engaging and being accessible. But if they're gonna think, with profit in their mind and ways to build more money and build more relationships, engaging in an authentically gauging the disability community is the way to go because it's such a big market. Michael Hingson 24:55 Sure. And the reality is that there have been a number Have reports anywhere from the Nielsen ratings to studies Ability One and the American Foundation for the Blind and others have done that have demonstrated beyond any reasonable belief that when you engage persons with disabilities, you're creating clients and customers or employees or and or employees who are most likely going to stick with you a lot longer than other people, because we know how hard it is to overcome that barrier of 70% of all persons with disabilities who are employable, don't get jobs, because we know that it isn't that we can't work. It is more that people think we can't work. And so they pigeonhole us where they shouldn't. Zane Landin 25:43 Yeah, no, interesting. And for me, when it's hard, because there's not very many companies doing it, when I say a company that is actually celebrating or making things accessible, I know that they're doing a good job elsewhere. Because disability is sometimes the like, most minoritized group where you said, there's 25%, but they're treated as, like, it's, there's point 1% of them in the population when it's a huge community. So when I see a company actually doing the work, and authentically representing people with disabilities, it's safe to say they're doing good elsewhere. But you know, what, you don't want to make sure, but that, to me is when I see that, that that is a good sign in a company that they're doing things right for the AI. Michael Hingson 26:26 And I agree, I think it's wonderful when people really take a position of doing it. Can you talk about any companies specifically that you're thinking of that do a great job? Or is that probably not fair to do or what? Zane Landin 26:39 Fair I will say. I see companies, I mean, I a lot of tech companies, I've been see like, like meta, and Google and Microsoft, of course, are doing a good job. And that's just what I see from the outside. I don't know what's going on. On the inside. I will say from a company that I worked with, I worked at General Motors, I think they're doing a great job, you know, they started accessibility team, and they're doing their disability or G came out very early, you know, like post the ADA signing, which is exciting to see. And I see companies now building disability or G's or organizations or groups, which Better late than never, but it's very impressive to see that General Motors was kind of ahead of the game and started at, you know, post ADA signing, I wish it was before, but even the world at that point, was not ready for that because they were there was still nothing legally wrong with discriminating against the person with disability. Which, and it wasn't even that long ago, if you think I mean, 9090 was not that long ago. And that was actually happening. So the thing like you said, things are moving slowly. But it's nice to see. And it makes me happy to see that. Michael Hingson 27:47 I suppose one could make the argument that even pre Ada, it was legally wrong, because we're covered in the Constitution. But the fact of the matter is that it still wasn't recognized. And so the ADA has helped a lot. Now we are just seeing new proposed legislation that would make it unlawful to not make websites inclusive for all, and that'll be exciting to see happen. Yeah, it was a long time coming. As you know, I work for a company called accessibe. That was created because Israel passed legislation requiring website accessibility in 2017. And the founders of accessibe, who had their own company making websites before then realized that they needed to make their customers websites accessible. And through that created accessibe, and now access to be has grown to a very sizable company in the inclusion world, making websites accessible both through an Artificial Intelligence Component, and the internal staffing component that does the things that the AI system can't do. And, you know, excessively his goal is to make the entire internet accessible and inclusive by 2025. What a great goal. Yeah, wow. And the reality is, it's not just dealing with blindness when you've got an example with accessibe profiles that allow people with ADHD to make websites do things to help them focus more, or people with epilepsy who encounter a website with a blinking hour or a number of blinking elements. And if the website uses accessibe, then they can stop that and they're just a lot of things like that. And but there's a long way to go. It's, it is it's still a bleeding edge technology, but the reality is, it's doing a lot which is which is great. That's making a big difference. Yeah, Zane Landin 29:45 no, I agree. That's great. Michael Hingson 29:46 So you've interned at a few companies. Did you do that while you were still in college or was that after college or what? Zane Landin 29:54 No, as well. I was. I was while I was still in college. I did so much Favorite internships I've done where I did want at General Motors, doing GM brand communications. And that was super exciting. That was kind of that was in the summer of 2021. So last summer, that was really my first internship at, you know, the, the traditional corporate America, because I've never done one like that a lot of my internships, rent nonprofits or small businesses. So I had no idea what it was going to be like, interning at a big company like that. And it was virtual. So there's so many different moving pieces. But you know, I was really engaged and the team I was on, I'm, you know, forever grateful for it, because they really gave me meaningful work, they really had a good direction for me, and they helped me identify my goals. And since I've done a lot of internships, I know when that is a good thing, when that doesn't happen. Because that's, that's happened many times where I wasn't given that support. And also times where I did internships, where there really wasn't a purpose for the internship, it was there to just kind of do the work that the person can't do. Which is, if that's really your goal, then I guess that's fine, but not really, we really want to like authentically engage your interns, like with meaningful work that they're really going to benefit from in sometimes they're going to be doing mundane tasks, that's okay. That's, that's going to be expected. But are there projects that the organization's working on that you can bring them on in, because I think insurance actually offer a powerful voice, that sometimes I don't think organizations tap into that, when you're working on a company, that's all you see is that company, you're not seeing it from the outside, you're not seeing it anymore like that, because you're in the culture of the company. But when you have an intern that's coming for a couple of months, leverage them as a consultant, leverage them as a third party voice, because they definitely bring good perspective. Usually, they're young, or maybe they're older. They mean, sometimes it's usually when they're young. They just, they bring a whole perspective. And sometimes you may not be getting a youth perspective, if your company is for one not diverse with age groups. And also, you want to know what young people are thinking about, especially when you want to market your product, or whatever it is that you're trying to build on your organization that really leverage intern voices, because they're, I think they're really prominent, and sometimes they're not leveraged enough as they could be. So you know, luckily, I did an internship with that, and I did an internship, the next I did for fall in spring and summer, I did an internship at NASA. So that was super exciting. And that was NASA JPL. So Jet Propulsion Laboratory, I didn't get to work on the campus, because it's, it's really nice, and it's apparently bigger than Disneyland. But I got to go to the campus a couple times, just to like receive a badge or for different things I needed to do. But I never worked on the campus was completely remote. But I got to work on so many different cool projects that had to do with astrophysics and exoplanets. Which, if you told me a year before that, we'll be doing that I wouldn't believe you. So it was interesting, the places I landed, and he will forget that every organization needs communication. So whatever you're passionate about, you can find it. If you're passionate about hobbies, or even chess or something, there's organizations out there that may that definitely need PR people to, to market, whatever it is they're working on. So oh, sorry, I was, I wasn't finished. I love that. And then I love the gym internship so much, I asked to come back. And so I did one internship post grad. So you know, I graduated in May of 2022. And then in June, to August, I did an internship at GM, this time doing di communications, which was exciting, because I've never done it before. And it was a, it was great to see that they were engaging the accessibility team and looking at how they can embed accessibility into their communications. So it was really it was it was nice to be kind of a not the big voice. But it was a voice for that. And that actually impressed me the most. Because sometimes I feel like you know, sometimes when you have a disability or you're a disability advocate, sometimes you can feel like you're alone in the room. And sometimes it's awkward to bring it up. It's like, oh, here we go. They know I'm gonna bring it up. Hopefully they're not annoyed that Oh, here they go bring up disability again. Sometimes I have gotten that reaction from some people, not these companies. But other places I haven't get I have received that reaction, that kind of feedback. And so it was really exciting that they were bringing up disability conferences to attend. They were talking about how do we celebrate Disability Pride Month, and I was like, Well, I'm not even saying anything. And I'm used to being the person to say something. And so it was actually so exciting to see that the team was like really pushing the boundaries. And I was like, it was nice that I didn't have to carry that burden, if that makes sense. And I'm not saying it's a burden to be an advocate. But sometimes it can feel that way when you're always the one having to push something when you're in a space where maybe it's not recognized like you wish it would be. Michael Hingson 34:50 Yeah. And it can be a challenge if people aren't listening or don't want to hear it. And more important If they hear you, but then don't do anything about it, then that's a real problem. So I'm assuming when you worked at JPL and so on, you didn't have to do any PR outreach or communications with any Martians or any of those guys, huh? No, no. Okay, well, one of these days. Zane Landin 35:19 I mean, I work with scientists, though. I mean, which was really exciting. So I work with, you know, scientists from JPL, who don't remember the exact location where they, where they call it a specific place where they live. But yeah, the scientists went to like Antarctica for like, six months to work on missions, and different, like, you know, things coming out. And like, you know, actual things are seeing up into space, you know, stuff you kind of see on sci fi movies, you know, people going to Antarctica and working on stuff. And I was like, Oh, this is such a sci fi experience. And when they told me, I was like, Oh, I forget that people actually do that. And it was just, it was kind of unbelievable, to hear from them in their experience going there. And just, it was very intimidating at times, because like, so many people were really, really smart. Michael Hingson 36:05 Well, even if you think about the press secretary for the President, that has to be a fascinating job. Because there's so much that you have to deal with, you have to help and do a lot of the message creation. But there's, there's a whole lot to a job like that. And for anyone who really respects communications, and the kinds of things that you're talking about, it must be a fascinating job to do. Of course, it's a very high pressure job for a lot of reasons, some of which shouldn't have to be there, but they are. But nevertheless, it has to be a fascinating job to be able to coordinate a lot of communications in so many ways. Zane Landin 36:47 I think that job is I can imagine, at least stressful that job is you need to be a very fascinating and compelling storyteller and speaker to just to like communicate everything that's going on, you have to know about everything basically about what's going on, and you need to be confident about it. And nowadays, what I've seen with politicians, and even celebrities or just people, it's like, you can't make mistake anymore. Like you make one wrong. You say one wrong thing, one wrong sentence. And you're completely scrutinized for it. And this happens with tons of press secretaries. Nowadays, it's like, they say one wrong thing. Now they're advocating for this when maybe they had nothing, they didn't even say anything like that. But because of how it sounded. There's just like no room for, like change or anything. It's like when someone says one wrong thing. Sometimes their life is over. And I think that communication is important. But we we also need to recognize that, you know, people make mistakes, and everyone communicates differently. And just, you know, try to understand, try to listen, instead of kind of feeding what you think they're saying, if that makes sense. Michael Hingson 37:56 You ought to be able to tell the difference between a mistake that someone makes it's a legitimate mistake and a trend where someone really is different than that. But I mean, have you kept up with the stuff that that went on? And is still going on with the Los Angeles City Council and the whole debacle going on there? No, I have not. So apparently, there were three people, three council members who were talking about the fact that Latinos needed more representation, and they were talking about how to do redistricting. And they were recorded as making some pretty unflattering remarks about the black child of another city council member. And that's different than a mistake, right? Because because they didn't know they were being recorded. It also took a year to come out. But one of them has resigned and they're growing calls for the other two to resign. It will be interesting to see how it goes. But so often, what you said is absolutely true. There's no room anymore. For conversation. There's no room anymore for understanding. And that's so unfortunate. Yeah. And I really don't know how we get over that. Zane Landin 39:17 I don't either. I mean, it's it's obviously a huge, complex challenge. But I think it just, I don't know, I think it just has to kind of do with try to remove yourself from your echo chambers, try to go outside, try to have actual decent conversation with someone. And if disagreement happens, I think that's actually I think that's great. That's actually I think that can be empowering as long as you respect one another as people. I think we forget that because we, we, I say we as a collective that, you know, people now have these strong assumptions that this person does this. They voted for this. They believe this one thing, equals they're a horrible person, and they keep that in their mind and so So, of course, if you think that by each other, it's like, it's very easy to not respect one another, but you forget, we forget that people are multifaceted beings that may believe one thing may believe this thing. And I think that a lot of people commonly are good. And we forget that and we convince ourselves that they're not because they're not on our side, or they're on this side. It's very unfortunate. And I think we just need to the like core of it is just recognize that were people, and then when you start treating her like that, and that people can make mistakes, people can sometimes say the wrong thing. Again, it's different when you're intentionally saying really harmful stuff. But you know, even just making a mistake, or just trying to make your point across, and it doesn't mean that they're horrible, it just means that this is what they're trying to say, I think we just need to be understanding. And I always try my best to listen to whatever anyone has to say. Michael Hingson 40:47 And that's important to be able to, again, that's the whole concept of the art of conversation, which is, which is pretty, pretty important that we do need to do more with, well, you have said that you identify as Hispanic queer, and you have a disability, we've talked about your disability and so on. And, and all three of those categories are ways that you, you can be observed as being and so on. And none of them should be interpreted in any kind of a negative way, although that I'm sure happens. Zane Landin 41:24 Absolutely. Michael Hingson 41:27 So you know, it is it is still one of the things that that all too often we have to deal with, which goes back to the whole concept of we're way less tolerant than we really ought to be. We need to become a little bit more open in our mindsets to to dealing with that stuff. And I hope we get there. So I Zane Landin 41:48 do. And I also will say just my perspective and just my experience, not so recognize that people have experiences, even if they don't seem like they do. And so what I mean by that is some people may look at me and say, I don't have a disability, it's not really their parents to tell me if I do or not. But looking at me when think that I think people forget that there's non apparent disabilities. And I think that there are non apparent racial identities. Getting if you look at me, you're not going to think I'm Hispanic, some very light skinned. Yeah, there's a lot of whites can Hispanics is actually a lot, quite a few I see a lot, actually. And there's plenty of my family. And there's plenty of my family that are darker, you know, so you have you have many different shades of culture and, you know, racial identity. And I think that people forget that. We don't want to feed into the stereotype, again, the stereotype that all Hispanics speak Spanish, to all Hispanics are darker, it's like, well, there are light skinned Hispanics, there are some that don't speak Spanish. That's me, you know. And so that doesn't make me any less or more Hispanic, it just makes it different. But I'm still Hispanic in this country. And you know, I have gone through termination, if it's, it was people who don't take me seriously as Hispanic because I'm light skinned, or if it's people that are white, that will see me as someone who is Hispanic and not taken seriously that way. It's very, there's very different dynamics. But I've been in spaces that are geared around the Hispanic experience, and they definitely perpetuate the, like colorism and discrimination because they may not see me as Hispanic, or, or I'm not authentically Hispanic, because I don't share certain attributes with them. Which isn't fair again, because like it's Gamber, ignoring the intersectionality, that every experience of being Hispanic is different. Just like being queer is different for everyone, just like there's just so many different disabilities and experiences. Why can't that be the same for different, you know, Hispanic identities, you know, someone who is someone who is blind, it's gonna be very different from someone else who's blind and very different experiences all makes up who they are. And so, for me, we still need to recognize that there's still a person who is blind, and don't treat them any differently. So recognize I'm still Hispanic or queer, and don't treat me any differently even from my own communities that I want to be a part of. And sometimes I don't, I feel neglected. And does that make sense? Michael Hingson 44:06 It does, have you ever felt that you have faced real, overt discrimination? And there's no right or wrong answer to that. I'm just curious if you think that's really ever happened? Zane Landin 44:21 No, I don't think so. I mean, depends. I mean, I only have ever just experience over discrimination. For like any racial identity. I have been assumed to have certain identities that I don't have. That's not definitely discrimination, but making the assumption is kind of wrong. I mean, I have been in spaces where I have heard that being queer as, you know, horrible. I have heard that growing up. But it was never aimed at me. So I wouldn't say it's over discrimination against me, but I have heard over discrimination against groups and it has definitely impacted how I feel about myself, and how I've navigated anatomy those identities. Michael Hingson 44:56 Probably if you faced any it was misconcept shins regarding the the neurodiverse disability. Yeah, that's him. And, like with anything, it's all about prejudice. It's really all about a lack of education and understanding. Zane Landin 45:15 miNo, absolutely. Michael Hingson 45:16 Which, you know, which we have to deal with? Well, you started a magazine somewhere along the way, when did you start it? And when did you start? Not all that happened. Zane Landin 45:26 I started in May of 2020, I was taking a copy editing class. Yeah, copy editing, and it was a class need to take. And that was when I kind of just switched to communications, actually, because 2020 was my fourth year. So it's one of my first communication classes I was taking in spring. And as you know, the pandemic end 2020. And, you know, as someone who experienced mental health, it definitely there was a time where it was a big change. And it got kind of worse during the pandemic, which it did for millions and millions of people across the globe. But the unfortunate thing was, then when I wanted to see was the mainstream media take a lead in sharing those stories. And I don't know what I was expecting, because the mainstream media has ever really pushed the storytelling for the mental health community. And if they did, it was always in a non in a good way, or a negative way. So that's something I've always wanted to see. And I don't, I see more happening today, but still not as much. And even when I do see something, it's sometimes for not a good reason, or it's mental health month. So of course, let's share straight mental health that we forget, it happens, you know, all the time, those identities don't go away. So I would like to see more of a more initiative in terms of that. So anyways, I wanted to, for the final project of the Creator and publication, so I wanted to create something, I had an idea, but I decided not to do it. But I decided to change directions and choose a magazine dedicated to mental health stories. And there's plenty of platforms out there, but this is what I wanted to see. And I want it to be based on positivity and strength and optimism. Because sometimes when you hear about mental health, you think the negative that, you know, this is what they're lacking. This is what's wrong with them. This is why they're depressed, and sort of, you know, kind of celebrating what their experiences are. And showing that just because you have a mental condition doesn't mean you're, it's the end of the world, because I feel like, sometimes miss all this pain, it's so negatively in the media that when you think of itself, you think of these extreme things. It's like I would never want, you know, mental health is so extreme. I don't want to be around that. And it's like, it's, it's not, you're forgetting that. So regular experience, actually. And there are TV shows that are portrayed in a good way. One of my favorite shows growing up was Degrassi. And you know, they had teens in the show experience when tough conditions, and they're still regular teens going through life. And they're not, you know, what we see in the media, you know, very extreme. And I think that you need those stories, you definitely need the stories of, you know, this is, this is what untreated mental illness could lead to this extreme. But then you also remember that, it's not all like that. And there are people with mental health conditions that just have this regular experience. And for some, it's worse. And for some, it's, it's not as bad. But they all need to be taken very seriously. And so I was I started because I wanted to see the mainstream media do that. And I'm really hoping they do one day, I would really love to see a mental health segment on a news channel. I don't care which one it is. But if it's on Fox News, or at CNN or MSNBC, or ABC, whatever it is, it'd be cool if they had just like maybe a half an hour or an hour segment just on mental health news. And they're sharing stories of mental health and awareness and bring on guests to talk about it. I know I've seen like, Good Morning America, I know they've done stuff like that, where they bring on doctors and stuff. But I think that that's still a certain audience. And I think the mainstream media really impacts a large amount of people even larger. And so I would love to see more stories on that. So that makes sense. And so it started like that. Started with social media. And then we just started featuring people. And then very fortunate that we featured over 80 people, we're still growing and we still have a lot more stories to release. But it just saddens me how incredible people's journeys are. And we, for the ordinary people that have these incredible stories we don't get to hear. And I love hearing stories of people who are just going through life they may not have, they may not have done something huge, like I don't know, like serving in the government or going to the White House or whatever it is that they've done. Things like that, but they they really impact their communities. And I think that's the most important I've ever seen anyone had the like the local heroes. I love seeing that. I just wish there was like a upskill of that. You know that we see more? Michael Hingson 49:39 Yeah, we we have some of that on Channel Seven in LA. But I hear I hear what you're saying and it would be great to have more. It's really unfortunate that we have media programs like the view that celebrate Hispanic awareness and Latino Awareness Month, African American or Black History Month, I have yet to see them ever discuss, cover or bring to the forefront national employment, National Disability Employment Awareness Month or national blindness Employment Awareness Month, which is October, or white cane Safety Day, which was October 15, to talk about the contributions that people with disabilities and of course, from my perspective, blind people in specific have dealt with. We, for example, there have been, I believe, as I recall, two blind people who were Senators of the United States and one blind congressman, maybe it was the reverse, but I think it was two senators who happen to be blind in one, Congressman, but that was all before 1940. We don't do any of that now. And it would be a real challenge because of the prejudices today for that to occur. Fortunately, we've got some persons with disabilities in government, Tani. Tammy Duckworth from Illinois, of course, was a veteran, is a veteran and is in a wheelchair and so on. But we don't deal with the issues. And it continues to be as much as anything, I think, a fear issue, which goes back to our conversation about words disability, as opposed to disabled, and we need to remove that blind people are considered blind or visually impaired. And there are two problems with that, visually. I didn't think that I was really different because I happen to be blind from a visual standpoint. So you could change that to vision impaired, but then you still have impaired, why is it that eyesight has to be the main judge by which people are viewed, I think a much more appropriate term would be low V would be yellow vision, sort of like deaf and hard of hearing. A person who happen to be deaf or hard of hearing would probably hit you over the head if you said deaf or hearing impaired, because they recognize the problem with impaired. But we haven't dealt with that with blindness, which has been a disability that the Gallup polling organization has even said, has been more approached by fear than any other disability, which is unfortunate. But people think that eyesight, it's the only game in town, and somehow we've got to change that Zane Landin 52:25 is interesting. I mean, like, it is nice that they're celebrating, you know, if it's LGBTQ Pride Month, but they never focus on disability, and I hope they do one day, Michael Hingson 52:41 I hope it changes. Certainly disability groups are calling for more of it. But hopefully, we'll we'll see more of it happen, which is, I think the the big important part. So you went to the mental health Youth Action form. Tell me a little bit about that. I mean, at first, what it is and what it was like and all that. Right. So it was Zane Landin 53:09 this really big program that MTV hosted. And they worked with several mental health nonprofits. And these are like some of the biggest like Jed foundation active mines. Pretty sure the Trevor Project, I'm pretty sure I'm not actually sure that, but you know, just anyways, but big organizations like that, and I was involved in active mines. And I first heard about this opportunity. And I was like, Oh, my goodness, you know, it was at the White House. It wasn't virtual. So it's like, okay, is it we're going to the White House, is it virtual? I mean, that's not that big of a deal. It is still big deal. But nothing like being physically there at the White House, that it was, you know, you're physically there. And so I ended up I applied, and I was like I really, since I started the magazine, I became more of a mental health advocate more so than before. I was involved in different organizations before. But the magazine really opened my eyes to more of what's out there and what people experience and the different dimensions of what people experience and their stories, all that stuff. And it just also the form was all about how do we actually influence mental health with media that's all about what I was trying to do with the magazine and trying to achieve. So I wanted to bring that experience forward with this. So I definitely spoke on that stuff. But the application was brief. There was like three questions, and you had like 100 words to answer. So it was very brief. And I hadn't heard back for like month or month and a half and I checked my spam. And I was excited to see that, you know, I was moving forward as a semifinalist. And there was never an interview, which is really interesting, like how they chose people. And there wasn't even a video so it was interesting when they were going to do how they were going to choose that way. Maybe it was maybe that is the most best way they could do it. So there wasn't bias, but anyways, they ended up filling another form out and And, you know, I spent hours on it. And then I think it was a couple weeks later I found out I got in, which was a surreal moment. Because again, I was just like going through my day. And then like just going to my email, and then it went right to my email that, you know, I was selected, and I was kind of just hit me. And I was like, or, actually, maybe it didn't hit me at first, I think it hit me later, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm actually going to the White House. And I don't know who I'm going to meet. I don't know exactly who's gonna be there yet. Because there's all this stuff happening. So they did tell us that. In the press release, we knew that Selena Gomez was going to be the keynote speaker basically, and which is good, because she actually has a history of mental health. And she's definitely a strong advocate for it. So I'm glad they brought an influencer that actually has a story with it. And I, Dr. Murthy was going to be there. And Dr. Biden. So very interesting people, very people high up in the government I've never met before. And I didn't know too much about. And you know, the forum happened. And it was three days, it was kind of over that he was pretty sure, May 16. Two days, if this were the exact date, there was three days and there was just so many different things happening. So and I hadn't been in DC for a while. Because last time I went was like an eighth grade for this trip. So it was interesting to be there again. And it was nice to connect with people because like throughout the forum, we met virtually, like, was it every other week, and learning about different topics and connecting before we actually went to the forum in person. But yeah, like most of the time, we were just practicing soy cheese. We got there Monday, and then Tuesday came around. We were practicing because there was like two parts of the forum. So on Wednesday, we were gonna do like this interactive dialogue, you know, with Selena Gomez, Dr. Murthy. And it was it was just like a broadcast event. And then some people actually saw it on television, which was really cool. So the first part was that the second part was we were presenting ideas that we started on our own as groups, and we pitched it to media companies like Pinterest, and Spotify. So big media partners, really excited to see I mean, of course, MTV has these partners. But that was great. But I mean, the the best part was, of course, being in the White House, you know, seeing where the President gives his speeches, seeing where, like Abraham Lincoln stood, and seeing all of this, the sculptures and the art that they have their and just so much history made. It was it was it was definitely a lot of Michael Hingson 57:30 people attended the conference. There was only 30. Zane Landin 57:33 I mean, okay, wait, so the the event were 30 advocates, us we're on stage, but people in the audience, there's probably like 100 people. And it was, I think people from like very, you know, walks of life, very different levels of government, the places of advocacy, and I didn't see people with disabilities there that was like, yes, like, I'm excited to actually see people here excited about mental health, and also bring in the aspects of disability as well. Because they definitely correlate and all intersect. And yeah, so after the event, I wasn't chosen as a speaker. Because those 30 of us were not going to speak that would be too much. They chose six speakers, that was so great to be on that stage and just hear their stories. And know that there was a lot of people watching at the time. And it was exciting to walk in the doors. So right before the event started, and we walked to our seats, like people were clapping. And it was just exciting. It was like, this is probably the only time I'm gonna experience like paparazzi. It was fun. It was it was a great experience. And I learned a lot. And after the event, we were like kind of like waiting in the Blue Room where we were before. And President Biden did show up. He just kind of showed up randomly. And I don't think he was supposed to be there because even the MTV people were kind of super over the top excited. And, and excitement that I don't think they anticipated. Like I don't think that they were like, low. It's a prison. I think they were like, Whoa, what the heck, we had no idea the President was actually going to be here. And because he's touched his schedule is so tight. I think that he made efforts of either, which is really exciting. But I don't think he was supposed to be there. I didn't feel like he was supposed to be there. But it was just so cool to see. And like he talked to us a little bit and we were like huddled around him like we were kids. It was super fun. It was great to hear from him. And it was just so baffling. That was like, like just a couple of like inches almost away from the President. You know, and then even like one of his people were like, Oh, Mr. President, it's time to go and it's like, oh my gosh, like I've heard that like in movies like that exact verbiage. And you hear it I was like, Oh, it's just so it was just so exhilarating. So that was that. So that was the entire experience and even now, it's just nice to be connected to MTV. And like there's still there's still bring forth opportunities left like going back to the White House, but like they're trying to opportunities. Because I, because Selena Gomez was there, her company where beauty and proceeds from her company go to mental health organizations, I actually am a part of their community now. And I got invited to one of their events. And now I write for Lady Gaga, I Was Born This Way Foundation that channel kindness. So a lot of different partners. Through the event, I was like, I want to make sure I leverage so I can get as much as possible through there. So I'm able to get certain opportunities from the forum. And you know, also developing good, some good friendships. So the I Michael Hingson 1:00:36 should have, I should have asked you before, how's the magazine doing? Zane Landin 1:00:40 Oh, I mean, yeah, it's going well, I mean, the more we feature people, the more stories we share, the more keeps growing, there may not be growing as fast as I wanted to. But I try my best to care about the storytelling. And I always try and tell people, it's so much easier said than done. But try to try your best not to focus on the numbers on the data. Of course, that's important, especially for working for a bigger company. But you know, if you're starting something, or you're trying to build a brand, just focus on building that brand, focus on the message, focus on what you're trying to achieve and what your goals are, as opposed to, you know, oh, this posts got only a certain amount of likes the story on you guys certain amount of shares, just keep building, because this stuff doesn't happen overnight. And you see people that will be that will get viral, and some people, unfortunately, become viral overnight. But for most people, that doesn't happen, just focus on the core message and your why that's what's the most important. Michael Hingson 1:01:35 Um, you mentioned that in the past, you've experienced some grief in your life. What is that about? Zane Landin 1:01:41 Sure, yeah. I'm, I'm very open about it. Now. Because this was the first time I've experienced this level of grief people have in my life that passed away, like most people, but it's very different when it's someone you're close with. And in 20, January of 2020, when my mom's had passed away, and it was a shock, there was no anticipatory grief, we didn't know anything was happening. She just went in for kind of an emergency surgery and had trouble waking up. And I would have believed in it. So I'm always I'm always, I'm always hopeful that it was a peaceful death. And if it wasn't, I don't know, I'm just gonna tell myself that. It kind of helps me sleep better. But, as I mentioned before, I mean, actually didn't, but I do mentioned, my mom was an advocate for me and make sure I gotta have a plan, all that stuff. So my mom was always my biggest advocate for everything. And so, you know, the, it's hard, though, you know, of course, when you lose someone, I tell people, just let yourself feel those things. I feel like people put a pressure on people that they need to grieve a certain way. And of course, there's, there's inappropriate ways to grieve like, if you're mean to be more angry, or very hurtful, like, I understand where it's coming from. But to me, that's not appropriate. But I understand. But I mean, it's like, if you're feeling really sad, you're feeling really angry, why yourself to feel that don't don't hurt other people, though, you know what I mean? Like inside, like, allow yourself to feel that. Because I think that it's all part of the process. And grief is not just an emotion, it's a series of ones. And it's it is a process, you don't want to prevent yourself from experiencing that. Because it can, it can be hurt, it can be more damaging in the future. And the unique thing about grief is it will come in waves, it will hit you one day, and then maybe in a month or two, you don't feel anything, you know, hit you another day. And there's no logical explanation as to why sometimes it hits you. It's really interesting why that happens. I don't know why. But it's so that's something I always say is, the saddest part is you know, just there's so many different aspects to it. One of them is like, my mom was always so excited about NASA and UFOs. And also American history. So like getting the NASA internship and go into the White House, I can't imagine how excited my mom would be in it. I don't get to see that reaction. So that's one of the hardest parts, but I always try to remind myself that she is there and proud and excited. And then another hard part about grieving is that dreams actually, I never hear people talk about it. But I think dreams are one of the hardest parts about grieving. Because you're you're kind of in a place where maybe you're not thinking about them or you are accepting that they are gone. But then you have a dream that's so lucid or powerful. And it felt so real. And then you question, it's kind of hard. It's like you kind of went back you kind of reverted in a way. And it's hard when you have to wake up from those dreams that haven't recently like that are felt so real. But I think when those things happen, this game has some spiritual illness. But I think when that happens, I think that's when they're closest to you. Yeah, and people can disagree with that, but that's I believe that, you know, when when you think about them, or when they come in your mind when you least expect, I think that's when they're closest. And when you need them the most. Michael Hingson 1:05:10 Speaking from personal experience, having lost both parents and my mother somewhat the same way, as yours, that if she had some surgery, and she, she actually came through the surgery, but then had a stroke and a heart attack at the same time, like, rather than ours and passed away a couple of days later in the hospital. But but you know, the, ultimately, the real issue is that you have all the memories, the life time of memories with your mother, or with anyone who you lose like that, that you get to have, and share or not, but you get to have them, which is always a positive thing. And I think you're right, when you have those vivid dreams, that's when they're closer or telling you something. And I think there's a lot of merit to that. But the bottom line is that the grief, kind of may never actually go away. But the grief can turn into more of a feeling of, I really value all that you taught me. And I'm going to move forward, rather than just living in the past. And the moving forward is what my parents and I'm sure your mom would want you to do anyway. And so that's a good thing. As as you move forward, that you'll be able to do, you're going to have your own adventures, and in their way, they'll share them and you'll find other people to share them with. But you've always gotten a lifetime of memories. Zane Landin 1:06:45 Yeah, and I think we definitely think of the negative, but he's remind ourselves of the funny the humor as the good times, because those exists. And sometimes it's it's easy to forget that they did. But I feel for people though I feel for people because I was lucky that I had a good relationship with my mom, and we were in a good place to. I feel for people who weren't, don't have that. They may carry guilt. Or they may carry the Why didn't I spend more time with them. And I feel bad because it's hard to move forward from that. And I don't have any, like, like any reaction to that, because I wouldn't know what to do. But I think when you agree if you have to reevaluate yourself and your relationship with them, and for me, it's just, even though it's gone, it's it's the I mean, the relationships aren't gone. Even though the physical is gone, the relationship is even stronger from it. Because like you said, your mind you remind yourself of what they taught you. And you're grateful for it. Michael Hingson 1:07:43 So what's next for you? What's in the future for you? Zane Landin 1:07:47 I mean, I did. I did get a job recently. I wasn't sure where it just Yeah, cuz it's not public. I haven't even fully accepted. But I did get a job that's going to be completely out of state completely away from here. So I won't be a Californian. Michael Hingson 1:08:01 And you'll always be a California. Zane Landin 1:08:03 Oh, yeah, definitely a hard, hard I will be. But fiscally I'll, I will actually be in Washington, DC. So, funny enough, I was there for the forum. And I'm going to be there again. So it's there you go. It's exciting that it all came together. But it's it's doing internal communications, and I'm really looking forward to it. And that's what's next for me. And, um, yeah, that's kind of the big thing that's happening. Michael Hingson 1:08:26 That is really exciting. And we're looking forward to hearing good things from you. And I will tell you right now in front of everyone listening, please keep in touch. Let us know how it's all going. And if you want to come back on the podcast and chat some more, we would love that. But if people want to reach out to you or learn about the magazine and all those things, what are ways that people can approach you or or contact you? Zane Landin 1:08:53 Absolutely. If you want to learn more, I'm super active on LinkedIn. So it's just my full name. Zane, Landin, you can find me on there. Or you can find me on LinkedIn. Spell it all. On LinkedIn. You can find me on Instagram, so you can find me on. I'm active on both of those platforms. So if you are interested in the magazine, Michael Hingson 1:09:09 definitely reach out Scelzi inland and if she would, sure Zane Landin 1:09:13 Z a n e, l a n d i n. Michael Hingson 1:09:18 And is there a website for the magazine? Zane Landin 1:09:21 Yeah, I mean, the websites or website sorry, the magazine is called positive vibes magazine. So the website is positivevibesmag.com. And that's also the handle for the Instagram. Michael Hingson 1:09:31 Perfect. Well, Zane, this has absolutely been enjoyable. I promised that we would do this in an hour. But we also passed the test of was this a really interesting conversation since it's now been an hour and 10 minutes? Well on our nine minutes, but by the time we're done an hour in 10 minutes, and I value very much the time that we had a chance to spend. I hope everyone listening did as well. We'd love to hear from you out there. Please reach out to Zane And please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I will of course, ask if you would give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to this podcast. But if you'd like to email me with any kind of questions or observations, please do so it's Michael m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to our podcast page, www dot Michael hingson. H i n g s o n.com/podcast. We do want to hear from you. We appreciate your reviews and your thoughts. And Zane, you as well as you listening out there. If you got any thoughts of anyone else that we ought to have on the podcast, I would really appreciate you reaching out, give us introductions. You are the things that make this podcast go. And I enjoy all the different thoughts and suggestions that people have we will honor them and we will accept your your guests as you bring them in and make it even a more interesting podcast. We want to show everyone that they can be more unstoppable than they ever thought they could. And I think Zane, you did that as well as anybody could. And we appreciate your stories very much. So, one last time. Thanks again for being here and we hope to see you again. Zane Landin 1:11:17 Thank you so much for having me again and it was great. Michael Hingson 1:11:24 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
