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Our guest this time, Michael Rosenkrantz grew up in California and had, what he says, was a normal childhood. I would say that Mike grew up as a very curious individual. He went to college at the University of California at Irvine, and then, after receiving his Bachelor’s degree, went East to Boston where he attended graduate schools at Northeastern University and Boston College. He earned Master’s degrees in Sociology and Business.
Michael then traveled around the United States quite a bit working in part for various nonprofit organizations. In 2009 he moved to India where he worked for the National Trust and became involved in helping persons with disabilities. By 2011 he had found himself involved with adaptive sports. He not only worked to help persons with disabilities become active in sporting events, but he also began working to educate others about becoming more inclusive.
He eventually moved back to the States where he continued to promote adaptive sporting efforts. In 2019 Mike was a co-founder of SoCal Adaptive Sports. He will tell us about the organization. Even more relevant, Michael discuss Inclusion and its importance.
This episode is not only quite inspiring, but it also helps put a lot of issues surrounding persons with disabilities into perspective.
About the Guest:
Michael Rosenkrantz has been working in the adaptive sport space since 2011 when he learned about wheelchair basketball. From 2009-12 Michael volunteered/worked as a Voluntary Services Overseas Volunteer with the National Trust which is part of the Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment-Government of India. He then worked in Nepal from 2012-16. Coming back to the US Michael was an Assistant Women’s Wheelchair Basketball Coach at the University of Arizona and co-founded Southern Arizona Adaptive Sports. He then went onto to work in North Carolina with Bridge II Sports and moved back to California in 2019. In 2020 he co-founded SoCal Adaptive Sports and has been the Board President and Executive Director.
Bio-Michael see greater societal inclusion as a social justice issue, having learned this from working overseas. His path to working with people with disability has been varied, having worked for numerous municipalities and non-profits including the oldest longest operating public market in the US in Lancaster, PA and Director of the Alliance for Living an HIV/AIDS Services organization in Connecticut.
Ways to connect with Michael:
Web: Socaladaptivesports.org https://www.facebook.com/palmstopinesparasports
About the Host:
Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.
Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.
https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/
accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/
https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/
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Transcription Notes:
Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone. I am Mike Hingson, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today. We get to chat with someone who was referred to me by our friend, Sheldon Lewis, who is involved in the nonprofit part of accessibe. That is he looks for nonprofits, especially in the disabilities arena, where he provides access to be to them at no charge, which is always a good thing. And Michael Rosenkrantz is one of the people that Sheldon has met along the way, and he suggested that Michael and I ought to do an episode of unstoppable mindset. And I guess I said enough right things that here he is. So Michael, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 02:03 Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Well, Michael Hingson ** 02:06 why don't we start kind of like I love to do. Tell me a little about the early Michael, growing up and all that. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 02:14 Sure, I grew up in the San Fernando Valley of California. Was always outside what town, and it was called Sepulveda at that time. No North Hills, okay? And, you know, always played sports since the weather was always pretty decent, yeah, a fairly usual childhood, nothing out of the ordinary, I would say. And, yeah, but I think it kind of shaped, you know, where I what I'm doing today, actually, that's for sure. Especially, no Michael Hingson ** 02:55 difference, yeah, yeah. Did you go to did you go to college? Michael Rosenkrantz ** 03:00 I went to college. I went to UC Irvine. Michael Hingson ** 03:03 Did you I don't know whether I knew that. When were you there? Michael Rosenkrantz ** 03:07 Yeah, I was there. Let's see that's a good question. 75 to 78 Michael Hingson ** 03:18 we overlapped by one year. Well, it's not to you, okay, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 03:22 thank you. Went to Irvine and then went to grad school in Michael Rosenkrantz ** 03:29 in the Boston area, Northeastern and Boston College, and they got me out to the East Coast, and, you know, ended up living on the East Coast for quite a number of years, and have moved around, you know, quite a bit. Michael Hingson ** 03:46 So what got you to the East Coast rather than staying out west at Irvine or somewhere out here? Michael Rosenkrantz ** 03:52 Well, grad school, essentially, just Michael Hingson ** 03:54 decided that's what you wanted to do. Yeah, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 03:57 yeah. I had a professor at Irvine had started a program at Boston College that I was very interested in, and so I ended up, you know, driving in a U haul cross country and with him, and spent a couple years at Boston College and a little bit more than a year and a half at Northeastern University. Michael Hingson ** 04:22 So what was your bachelor's degree in Michael Rosenkrantz ** 04:26 bachelor's degree in political science? Started out as a, you know, wanted to be a dentist. About was very short lived, as I didn't do well in chemistry and such. And, yeah, ended up changing. And you know, all for the best. Of course, all for the best. So Michael Hingson ** 04:45 what were your graduate degrees in, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 04:49 in sociology and also in business? Michael Hingson ** 04:55 I remember being at UC Irvine in physics and. The year I started, which was 68 1600 people joined as freshmen in the bio side department. And one of the things that the School of Biological Sciences did, at least by reputation, to weed out a lot of the people who weren't going to really do well in biosci was that in your first year you were required to take your first or second year you were required to take organic chemistry. So by the end of two years, 1600 dropped to 200 Michael Rosenkrantz ** 05:41 Yeah, that'll do it. Michael Hingson ** 05:46 So I didn't have to take organic chemistry, um, although I would have put up with it if that were required, but in physics, it wasn't. But I did take a year of bio side biology, one A, 1b and 1c which was a lot of fun, and that was requirement, but not organic chemistry, fortunately, which would have required memorizing lots of different kinds of reactions and so on. And memory has never been a problem for me, so I could have done that, but I'm glad I didn't have to. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 06:19 That's great. Well, so, Michael Hingson ** 06:20 so you went off to the east and went to school back there, different weather than out here. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 06:30 Yeah, yeah, I remember wearing a very puppy down coat, and, you know, with a few snowflakes, a friend from New York just laughing, okay, Michael Hingson ** 06:44 yeah, yeah, well, I'm sure that people laughed at me the first year I was back there, starting in October of 76 I moved to the Cambridge area and actually lived for a few months in a studio apartment in Back Bay Boston, and had to go to Cambridge every day. Well, had to go, went to Cambridge every day or work. And that was the first time I encountered lots of snow. And how they shoveled the sidewalks off and made sort of snow walls along the street gutters was just a very narrow pathway to walk through to get to the street, and I knew nothing about all that going into it. Well, I figured it out soon enough, though. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 07:33 Yeah, I could just imagine Michael Hingson ** 07:36 the dog loved it. Loved to play with the snowballs. So what? What did you do after college? Michael Rosenkrantz ** 07:45 Let's see, after grad school, got married and then moved to the Bay Area Oakland and worked for the city of Oakland for a few years got me started working in the public markets a bit, which I really enjoyed, ended up moving back to the east coast for some 20 years now. Again, it moved to Pennsylvania after that, right there, who knows, live in Connecticut a little bit longer, and then moved back eventually, went back to the West Coast, moved to Colorado, lived in moved to India. Lived in India for a while. Nepal. Michael Hingson ** 08:45 So were you married all this time? Michael Rosenkrantz ** 08:47 No, oh, I moved to Pennsylvania. I got divorced. Oh, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 08:55 but in the meantime, you know, I had two children. You know, they had a good childhood, and, yeah, just kind of pursued, you know, things that were important to me. And so when I was in, I was a VSO volunteer, I think the Voluntary Service overseas in 2009 Michael Rosenkrantz ** 09:24 and, you know, working with the Indian government, and that company started and working with people with disability and adaptive sports. So that's been my path pretty much since, you know, 2009 Michael Hingson ** 09:40 so what kinds of things did you do, or how did you get involved in working with people with disabilities over there? Michael Rosenkrantz ** 09:47 So I was working for the Indian government, autonomous body called the National Trust, which was part of the Ministry of Social Justice and empowerment. I. And my role was to develop and then implement a variety of workshops for nonprofits, NGOs, involved with people with disability throughout the country, which I did, and was also I was living in New Delhi, so I was Saturday nights when I was in Delhi, I would coach at the YMCA coach basketball. And in 2011 some friends from a group called wheelchair athletes worldwide came over to the country, and that got me started in wheelchair basketball. And you know, I've just continued kind of on this path since that time. And you know, very much led to when I came back to the country, living in Tucson for a little bit, living in Raleigh, Durham area for a bit, and then back to California in 2019 and incorporating this nonprofit, along with some others, in May of 2020, and you know, we've continued. We've grown working throughout Southern California. And you know, I feel we're making an impact. Michael Hingson ** 11:34 Well, going back to 2009 you started in New Delhi, and they had you starting to work with people with disabilities. What did you think about that, that that certainly was a different population than you were mostly used to being involved with so what? What were your thoughts or, how did, how did all that work out for you? What did you learn? I Michael Rosenkrantz ** 11:55 hadn't really worked with people with disability before. I've been in Connecticut, you know, had a few different roles, but one of them was as director of an HIV AIDS organization, which was really good. So that got me more into the, you know, the nonprofit world, and kind of what that meant in working with people with disability, again, I worked, you know, primarily with the with the NGOs, with the organizations teaching them about fundraising and strategic planning, things to keep them really go, going and growing, becoming sustainable. So, you know, in India, in you know, disability looks different than it does here. You know, if you live in a village, a rural area, difficult, definitely, the thing that I learned, though, think was about advocacy and how important advocacy is. And, yeah, I think that's the thing that really put me on this path, in that, you know, people with disability are the largest minority population in the world. And about, you know, 15, 16% of worldwide population are people with disabilities. So it's a huge, huge number. And even, you know, in India, even without the kind of resources that we have in the US, there was a lot of movement in terms of trying to make structures much more accessible. You know, I saw the fight that that advocates had, and I realized that, realized that, you know, this is very much a social justice issue, and so that that really appealed to me. And then the, you know, the sports aspect, where, in India there weren't a lot of adaptive sports, you know. But since that time, obviously, things you know, things have changed and sports have grown. There are more people playing adaptive sports, yeah, certainly Michael Hingson ** 14:32 back even in 2000 2001 and even later, the level of adaptive sports in the US wasn't what it is today either. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 14:48 Yeah, well, I mean, it's certainly grown. You know, as more awareness is created about capabilities, as more awareness is created about, you know, removing barrier. Barriers, leveling the playing field, creating greater access. But you know, the thing that I saw in both India and Nepal, where I lived for four years after living in India for three years, was that accessibility was just a huge, huge issue. And you know, that starts with accessible sidewalks, or even having sidewalks, you know, that people could, could actually walk on. Yeah, so it's it, you know, it's a different it's a different access is very different than kind of what it is here. I mean, I realize there's a very long way to go. I mean, throughout the world, you know, especially in places like the US, with a lot more resources, but you know, there are a lot more opportunities here than in places, you know, like Nepal or India. I mean, I realized that there still needs to be a lot more priority placed on accessibility level in the playing field, creating societal inclusion. But certainly in my time back in the US, I've seen the growth of an interest in adaptive sports. And I you know, la 2028 with the Paralympic Games, is certainly it's already making a huge difference, especially in the LA area. How so? Well, so you have la 2028 you know, is fully functional. And so staff from LA 2028 you know, I see them in a number of adoptive sports fairs. I see the city of LA growing their programming terms of adaptive sports. You know, I see my friends organizations, Triumph Foundation, Angel City, which really la greater LA area, you know, just doing a whole lot more, and there being a lot more interest from people with disabilities in participating, but also in the able bodied neurotypical community, you know, volunteering a whole lot more. So I think you know all of those things with this goal of really making you know, huge impact in 2028 is, is making a difference. But you know, it has to continue, right? You have to have more municipalities creating adaptive sports a level in the playing field. And so, you know, that's one of the things that I'm working on, not necessarily, necessarily with La 2028 in mind, but more, you know, Southern California is an area where the weather is fairly good, and so you can play, you know, all year round. And and therefore, why aren't there adaptive sports being offered on a consistent basis in municipality, south, Southern California. So all of these things, you know. And then you have move united, which is the industry Chamber of Commerce, which is really making a difference. And I see more adaptive sports organizations joining, you know, with move united, so it, you know, it's happening. Change happens slowly, but I can see lots of light and lots more offerings, especially throughout Southern California, Michael Hingson ** 18:58 something that I kind of wonder, and I asked the question, not being well educated in the whole area of adaptive sports, but in general, in some ways, philosophically, adaptive sports is still a separate But potentially equal environment. Can Can people who participate in adaptive sports be integrated into actually participating just in the regular sporting events, or are they so different that there's no way to really integrate the two? And I and I asked that, because I did have someone as a guest a while ago who was talking about, like wheelchair marathoners, who actually go faster than regular runners. And so, you know, is that an advantage or a disadvantage, or whatever? But are there ways to integrate any of the two so that you could have so called Able bodied people? And I, and I use it in that term, um. Um, participating with people, say, who are in wheelchairs or whatever? Yeah, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 20:05 that's a that's a really good question. A few years ago, when I was living in Tucson, we had a summertime Wheelchair Basketball League, and so you got people with disability participating with people, you know, over able bodied women. It was I thought it was great. It was really fun. You know, the True, true inclusion, the program that I run in Riverside, an after school program, city of Riverside, it's for children, and that is an inclusive program. So I think in many cases, yes, and I think that you know schools and other some other programs are looking to do more inclusive sports. But I don't think that's it's always the case, right? I think there are times with certain athletes with certain abilities that it makes sense to have, you know, adaptive sports, Michael Hingson ** 21:29 yeah, I don't know about wheelchair tennis, for example, or even wheelchair basketball, whether you could fully integrate them. I don't know enough about them to to know so Michael Rosenkrantz ** 21:40 in in in Wiltshire basketball, people get a certain number of points depending on their disability. So sometimes able bodied would be a 4.5 for example. And you can only have a certain number of points on the court at one time, like one of my friends, Keith Wallace, actually does a league, Wilshire Basketball League, where he allows, you know, I mean, it's just inclusive. It's just an inclusive thing. Whereas, you know, a group like the National Wilshire Basketball Association is specifically for, you know, people with disabilities, so they're not making it at an get an inclusive thing. And, you know, that's fine. I mean, that's, you know, that's how they run their lead. So I think the more that you can do inclusive sports and and have people without disability try adaptive sports, the better. Actually, we do an example of that. So we do a school based program called sports for everybody. It's a program that a similar program that I did when I lived in North Carolina and worked for an adaptive sports organization there. So we go into schools. We bring sport wheelchairs. We set up three stations teach, you know, all the children how to push the sport wheelchair. We do Boccia and do sitting volleyball in a disability etiquette piece. And so this is a way to educate and create greater awareness about capabilities. And I think that's that's really key for, you know, removing barriers, creating more access and creating greater societal inclusion. That is, you know, and I asked the children, and it's all grades, I asked the children, I say, Well, do you know someone with disability? And you know, inevitably, I would say, you know, 40, 50% of the children say they know someone with disability. And you know, by the end of the session, I'm asking, so can you play with someone with disability? And all the kids are, yeah, of course we can, but you know, we have to adapt. So Michael Hingson ** 24:13 adapting, adapting is a two way street. But yeah, yeah, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 24:16 yeah, no, that's right. So I think that's and ultimately, you know, I'm looking at, how do you change society so that there is greater societal inclusion, and it doesn't matter you know what your ability level is, you know what's going on with your body, but that everyone can play together, right? Michael Hingson ** 24:47 Well, one of the reasons that I asked the question was, I have a friend who, for many years was a national rowing champion and participated in rowing at the Paralympics. And I asked her, Why don't you. To participate in the regular Olympics rowing teams, and she said they won't allow that yet, you know, and she acknowledged that eyesight isn't an issue in rowing, but you know, maybe that will will change over time, but it is a growth issue just the presumption that disability means you can't do the same things that other people can do. Certainly there are areas where that's true. I am not going to watch television and make determinations about visual effects. That doesn't mean, however, that I can't watch television and I can't get a lot out of it, and it also doesn't mean that I don't encounter television commercials that have content where they never say what product they're advertising. And so they they systematically leave some of us out that shouldn't be a problem that I face, but inclusion is something that we really haven't totally adapted to and agreed needs to be part of our world. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 26:11 Yeah, I think you know that South African runner victorious? Was it? Yeah, I believe, I think you participated in the Olympics. I'm not sure, but I think there are, there probably are areas in the Olympics, or somewhat disability could participate. I mean, I, you know, I wouldn't want to see someone doing standing basketball and in a wheelchair, you know, playing in the Olympics, because I think, you know, having a wheelchair might be difficult when you know someone's running And standing right, yeah, that might not go together, but you know, one of the best archers in the world is a guy without arms, and so, you know, why couldn't he participate in the Olympics? I mean, he may choose to participate in the Paralympics, but yeah, there probably are, like, a full range of sports where, you know, it shouldn't really matter whether, whether you have a disability, but that you could participate, you know, in the Olympics, because they're all, you know, when it comes down to it, Paralympics, Olympics. I mean, these, they're all you lead athletes, you know, and they're just incredible people. Some may just have, you know, a disability, but it shouldn't really make a whole heck of a lot of difference. I think for, you know, recreation programs that you can do a lot more inclusion and, you know, but just being aware that some people need one on one assistance. So again, I, you know, I, I kind of celebrate when like the programs that I do, especially with youth, are inclusive, because many times, parents don't understand what adaptive sports are, so they just sign their kids up to participate. And I say, Okay, that's great, sure, of course. But I also take the time, you know, to talk to the children who are neuro typical, able bodied, and say, you know, look, you may have noticed that, you know, this person acts a little bit differently, and so you need to be aware that, you know, maybe this person is autistic, right, yeah? Or has intellectual disability, and the kids, you know, they'll look at me with understanding and say, Okay, now I now I get it, and maybe I can change a little bit of the way that I interact, you know, with that person, which I think is really important, yeah? And I think that's the thing that brings about more societal inclusion. Michael Hingson ** 29:25 One of the things, and I've said it on this podcast a number of times, is we've got to get beyond thinking that disability means lack of ability. And I've had a number of so called diversity experts on and they always say, but disability begins with dis, which is a lack of and I have discovered and learned and react when I hear that by saying things like, okay, then where does this come into the word disciple or discrete? You know, the reality is, dis doesn't need to be a lack. Lack of like with blindness, we always hear about visually impaired, which is such a gross term on so many levels, because visually we're not different and impaired, we are not and why do you compare how much eyesight I have to how much eyesight you have? We've got to get beyond believing that disability means a difference that makes some of us less than some of you, because everyone has gifts, and what we really need to do is to promote and understand each person's gifts and figure out how to help them use those gifts. Yeah, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 30:36 well, that's you know, conversations about language and what people want. And when I was in India, so the the CEO of National Trust said, you know, it's discover ability, right? Put cover in there. When I use the word, or I've heard the word, differently able, yeah, one of my friends gets really pissed off and said, you know, come on, I do too, and that's okay, so, but I think it's more about it's not about disability. It's about, again, how do you create greater access, given that, you know, a lot of the systems and structures we've created did not have a person who, you know, may be blind in mind, right? And so, I mean, I think that's the thing intellectually, which we need to think about and change. And a lot of that, you know, is happening in New Delhi. When I was there, that's what the advocates were working on, you know, how do we change? How do we change the sidewalk so, you know, how do we ensure that all the restrooms have large enough openings to so that a person, a wheelchair, can fit in, right? And that's, you know, that's, that's a huge, huge discussion, but you're right. I mean, language, language does make a big difference. So I, you know, I always try to be careful and think about the language. But, you know, the reality is, how do you create greater access? So it's not, you know that person has a disability, but that person doesn't, you know, the person who maybe is blind or uses a wheelchair automatically, automatically, can get into a building, or, you know, into a restroom, or, you know, so there isn't this, yeah, there isn't this difference. I was in Israel a couple years ago for something called the Maccabee games, and I was coaching our wheelchair basketball team, and it was really curious to me, and somewhat frustrating when I saw on the hotel where we were staying at in Tel Aviv, it said handicap parking. But, you know, there was no, there was no place like for the person in the wheelchair to go, to get up, go in the front door. They had to go behind all the cars and all that. Yeah, excuse me, and you go, Well, come on, you know, that's not creating access. Or, you know, the front door that says, you know, handicap accessible, but yet, there's no button on it to push, and the doors are so heavy that you can't really pull it open, right? So, you know, you kind of scratch your head and go, Well, wait a second. This is really not, not creating greater access for people. And so it kind of defeats the purpose right to to have these signs and say all this, but yet, you know, the reality is, it's not, it's not accessible. So, you know, you got to think more about that. How do you make things much more accessible, so there isn't this difference. You know, we don't point to someone and say, Oh, they have a disability, and that's going to take time. Michael Hingson ** 34:10 It is going to take time, and it takes involving some of the people who are actually being affected by the decisions. You know, several years ago, Israel did pass regulations that said all websites need to be accessible, and people took it, I think, in general, pretty seriously. I work with accessibe, as you know, and accessibe came out of needing to make websites inclusive, by three guys who had a company that made websites for people, and suddenly had to magically make them usable. And so they did, and they came up with a product that helps a lot in making websites usable and inclusive. Around the world, lots to do, and they're working on a lot of projects with that, but still, yeah, it's it's all about really involving the people who are affected by the decisions that you make. And clearly, if someone said that something was accessible, like a door, but they didn't have a button. You got to kind of wonder, who did they ask, or where did they consult to decide that that made it accessible? And so, you know, much less using the word handicapped in today's world, more and more, we're recognizing not a good thing to do, but you know, one of the things that that I hope over time, people will recognize is that disability is really a characteristic that everyone shares. It just manifests itself differently. I mean, you're light dependent, you know, so if the lights go out, you're in a world of hurt. Doesn't bother me a bit, but, but the reality is that we've got to raise consciousness. And it is a process. It is a slow process. And, you know, there are just so many areas where there is a lot of work to be done, but I think it's also important that we really try to get the work done. And if people refuse to listen, sometimes we have to take a harder stance than we might have in the past, but it is what we got to do. Well, you Michael Rosenkrantz ** 36:24 know, as I say to the children that we educate in our sports, everybody program, if you live long enough, you're going to have a disability. I mean, there's no getting around that. And so, you know, understanding that now and again, you know, I keep talking about creating greater access, and thinking about that is, I think, is really, really important and very key. You know, I think about what's going on in Gaza now, and of course, they're going to be many more people with physical disability. And you know, Israel has a center for people with disability to play sports and all that. Obviously, we don't want to create, you know, more people who are amputees. But, you know, given the state of the world, you got to think about, you know, we are creating more people with disability. There's no doubt about that. Yes, but then how do we so how do we help those people once, you know, hopefully wars end, to participate fully in society, and it is about removing barriers, you know, making the world very accessible to everybody, you know, with an emphasis on body, no matter what their ability, who they are. So it's, you know, for me, it's personally, it's really important to create lots and lots of opportunities, and ensure that these opportunities are accessible. You know, whether it's sports, whether it's art, whether it's being able to go to professional sporting event, you know it's about it is about educating people to a colleague and I actually train coaches, ice skating coaches at our local ice Plex, you know, and working with people who are autistic, people with physical disability, people with other developmental disabilities. And so now we're embarking hopefully, on a program to train municipal parks and rec staff about working, you know, with people with all different abilities and and part of that, you know, Michael, is, it's demystifying, working with people with disability. Because I think many people think, you know, there's this, there's this magic, right? And I can't do it because I've never been trained on how to work with someone with disability. But I don't think that's it. You know, for me, it's been a matter of just experience, just getting in there and and doing it, and learning, you know, through sometimes making mistakes, but learning to lose mistakes and saying, okay, you know, I love sports and so, you know, I can work. I can work with anybody and that, and that's proven to work very well, you know, from non verbal people to, you know, people. People who are deaf. I mean, I, you know, I feel like I can work with anybody. And, you know, maybe it requires more patience and allowing a little more time for someone to process what direction I'm given. I've given rather but, but still, it's, you know, and I think that gets back to your question of, should we have more inclusion? And I think probably, over time, we will. But again, it's, it's this kind of taking the mystique out of working, you know, with stuff entrepreneurs who just has different abilities, you know, and who, does take longer to process, you know, direction Michael Hingson ** 40:46 well. And the reality is, people with what are more traditional disabilities or not. The bottom line is that not everyone has the gifts to do some things. Not everybody's going to be good at basketball or tennis or golf. There are some blind people who play golf, and there are many blind people who don't play golf. There are some sighted people who play golf and are good at it. There are lots of people who don't play golf or who play at it but aren't very good. The reality is it that we need to not make the so called Disability the reason why something doesn't work? You know, people say to me all the time, well, of course, you didn't know what happened on September 11, even though you were in the building because you were blind, you couldn't see it. And of course, my response to that is, you got it all wrong as usual, and I don't say the as usual, but you've got it all wrong. The airplane hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building. How was I supposed to know? How was anyone supposed to know what happened? I went down the stairs with 1000s of people who had no clue what had happened because they didn't see it and it had nothing to do with seeing it or not seeing it clearly, we had to get out of the building because of the way the building behaved. But you don't blame it on someone's so called disability. It's more common sense than that, but we haven't learned to do that collectively yet, and I hope it is something that over time, people will come more to realize, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 42:20 yeah, you know, again, I think it's, it's more about is there, is there an opportunity for someone to come out and try golf or basketball, right, to see if they like it? You got, you know, there's some. So we do golf. We did golf yesterday, and, you know, that's not one of my favorite sports. But, you know, for for the athletes who came out who wanted to play great, and they like it good, you know, I mean, I, I was egged on, you know, to try and do it. And it took me, let's see how many shots take me, five or six shots for me to hit the ball, you know? And it's like, I'm not. Golf is not my game, you know, Michael Hingson ** 43:07 my, my British, New Zealand and Australian friends notwithstanding, golf is still faster than cricket. But, you know, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 43:15 I guess I got so I've heard, yeah, but, but it's, it's more about Yeah, I think the key word here, as I keep saying, is access. Correct, if the sport, if the art class, if the dance class is not offered, then certainly, you know, we put up barriers to participating. And so that's where things need to change. Again. It's, for me, it comes back to leveling the playing field, no matter what that playing field is. You know, it could be art, it could be dance, whatever. So that's where we all need to participate. And that's where, you know, municipalities, I feel, have a very key, key role, because they're managing, you know, fields and community centers and all that. And they have to prioritize, you know, adaptive sports. They have to prioritize, you know, saying this is an inclusive program. You know, anybody who wants to can come in and play, and they have to prioritize training their staff, so staff feels comfortable in working with everybody. Michael Hingson ** 44:30 And you also have to learn to take out the disability and really look at people's gifts. I mean, as you pointed out, some people are going to play golf better than others. You might figure it out someday, though, by the way. So maybe you shouldn't give up yet. Maybe I hear a little bit of doubt there somewhere. Tell me. Tell me more about SoCal adaptive sports. You know what? It's all about, what you do and and what you're accomplishing with it? Yeah. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 44:59 Thanks. So this, you know, I told you, I've been working kind of in the adapt with sports space since 2011 when my friends from wheelchair athletes worldwide came over to India. And so it's been, it's been a, definitely an evolution for me. When I came back to the US, I was able to be an assistant coach. This was in 2016 I was able to be an assistant coach at the University of Arizona with the women's wheelchair basketball team. So the got that got me more kind of into this. And then I helped to co found a nonprofit in Tucson called Southern Arizona adaptive sports, which I left before it really took off. And it has taken off due to my friend Mia handsome, you know, went out of North Carolina for a year and a half and then came back to the US work first, I mean, to California, worked for a small non profit in Coachella Valley. And then, you know, when COVID hit, parting of ways, and said it was really time to start, kind of my own thing. Co founded the organization, and I really appreciated kind of this journey which started in in India, this path, because I, you know, I live by, how do we create, again, numerous opportunities, and, you know, I'm able to work throughout Southern California, but numerous, just great organizations, a lot of partnering. And so we offer programs, you know, we offer basketball, tennis and pickleball. We're working with a hiking program. We're working with a group called Friends of the desert mountains to lead our hiking program, which is now three years old. We're working with Special Olympics. We're working with acute autism. I'm working with a group called Desert art. You know, we go sailing. So we work with a group of California inclusive sailing. We work with challenge sailors in San Diego. We've done trips to a place called calf find a ranch where athletes can participate in numerous activities. We've gone to professional sporting events. You know, as I mentioned earlier, we've done, we're doing after school programming. I'm working with a school district. We've worked with over 3000 children at Coachella alligator bike school district. And now we're going to start working with other school districts. So it's really, you know, it's a lot of different things that we offer, I think, in an effort to, again, let a level the playing field, a lot of education, which is vital, a lot of teaching life lessons through sports and it, you know, it's, it's about I can, as opposed to, I can't do this. And when I coach, you know, if one of the athletes says this is too hard, I can't do it, I say, you need to try it. And yes, you can. And then they do, and ultimately, you know, that leads to other things, right? That leads to maybe I can wash my clothes, I can wash my dishes, I can get a job, I can get an apartment or a house. And I think that's the really important piece. That's really important piece again, for me, you know, it's not just playing sports. It's playing to the best of your abilities, whatever you know those are. But then it's taking all of that and say, okay, you know, I'm going to make decisions for my life and what I'm passionate about and what I want to do. Michael Hingson ** 48:57 Yeah, because the usual I can't isn't that they can't, it's that they've learned through whatever society has offered them that they can't, when that isn't necessarily true at all. Well, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 49:12 I think that's right, and so I provide. You know, I don't coach anybody differently than I coach anybody else. I mean, maybe, you know, for some people, obviously, I, you know, have a bit well, I have patience, but maybe have a bit more patience, you know, wait a little bit longer for response and all that. But I push people because I think it's, I think it's important to do that, you know, I don't think it's okay to for someone to say, well, I can't do it because it's too hard. Well, no, you're going to try it and, you know, if you can't do it after I'm really trying, that's okay, but you're not just going to give up, because you're not going to give up. You know? Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 50:01 yeah. We, we are taught all too often, all too much to give up rather than really being curious and really exploring and trying. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 50:11 Yeah, you know, I've been, we have the BNP service open happening this for the next couple weeks out in Indian Wells, and I was able to see, you know, one of the women tennis players. And, you know, I thought, Wow, this woman hits the ball so hard. You know, she's only 21 but you know, she's been doing that for hours, endless hours every day, and it's not to say, you know, that I'm going to spend endless hours shooting hoops, but I'm going to play as much as I need to, so that, you know, I think compete on some level. And excuse me, I think this the same thing for, you know, the athletes that I've been working with, it's you may not play every day, right? You may not, but in the time that we're together, we're really going to push and, you know, we're all going to play to the best of our abilities, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 51:20 how do we really work to level the playing field? Michael Rosenkrantz ** 51:24 Well, you know, I just, I just had an article published on the National Parks and Recreation website, and in that, I wrote about municipalities. And as I indicated earlier, I said, you know, municipalities really have the power to change things again, because, you know, they have the infrastructure, they have the facilities. So it takes them again to prioritize, adaptive, inclusive sports, you know, and really push this stuff. So I, I see, you know, I see municipalities doing adaptive sports, bears, right? Perhaps I'm seeing more municipalities offer, you know, adaptive sports. I think that's going to really change. That's going to really level the playing field, I think, as our younger you know younger people, and even you know those of us my age, should you know, have greater acceptance for removing barriers and say, Hey, this person's in a wheelchair, but they want to participate. So how do I make that happen? I think that levels of playing field, I think, yeah, as people become, you know, more empathetic towards others and their situation, you know, can put themselves in, you know, another person's shoes, or even consider, well, what? What if I had to use a wheelchair or, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 53:09 you know, to get around? How would I do it? Certainly, that changes things. I think, as we enlarge our world, which is not an easy task. You know, if Michael Rosenkrantz ** 53:23 you've only lived in one part of the world for all of your life, you know, and haven't experienced other societies, maybe your empathy is not as great. But, you know, we live in a world that's, I mean, that's very connected, and so as we have more understanding that also levels of playing field, you know, it's, it's not only for people with, you know, we use the word disability, but it's, it's for everybody, right? It's Michael Rosenkrantz ** 53:52 no matter what ethnicity you are, or, you know, religion you are, or you know what, however you choose to live your life, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 54:05 there has to be greater understanding. But I think that that levels things for everybody, and that that again, you know, it's an it's an evolution. So it's going to take, it takes time. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 54:18 it, it is a process. And we, we do need to be committed to doing it, but it is a process and and hopefully we'll get there, yeah, and that we'll we'll see a lot more inclusion than we do. My late wife was in a wheelchair her whole life. I remember once at Christmas time, we wanted to go see the Rockettes, and we went to Radio City Music Hall, and they were supposed to have accessible seats, and they didn't. They they didn't move things around so that people in wheelchairs could have a seat. And it was a little bit of a frustrating situation. We pushed back on it, and they said, sorry. Do. Don't have anything, and we the next day, we called and talked to people at Radio City, and then a couple days later, miraculously, they found accessible seating for Karen, where, where she and I could sit next to each other, and and, and it worked out, but it was just interesting, the cavalier attitude that they had when radio, city music, Hall, of all places, shouldn't have even had that issue come up. But it did. Yeah, when was that? Oh, gosh, it was probably in, I would say 1999 or 2000 Michael Rosenkrantz ** 55:42 Yeah. But it took you and Karen to, kind of, you know, push back and say, Hey, for people to, you know, I mean, literally, open their eyes and say, Oh, huh, yeah. We need to make sure this is accessible, yeah. Michael Hingson ** 55:57 And there's still many examples of that today. It's, it is. It's all about education. It's all about awareness raising, you know, which is important to do well for you, you you do a lot of different things. How do you maintain a work life balance? You must have some time when you rest a little bit. I would think, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 56:19 you know, a bit, but I think, you know, I've been very fortunate in that I love sports. I very much see my work as a social justice kind of issue, although, you know, at times I think I should be doing, maybe I should be doing other things, you know, that, have, you know, so called greater importance, like climate change and whatever else. But, you know, again, I'm very fortunate that I found this even later in life. So it's, it's not a question of Sure, there are times when I feel really tired and, you know, kind of beat up. But when I get on the playing field and I'm coaching athletes, you know, there's nothing else kind of going on in the world at all. And so I think, you know, I know, you know, that focus really gives me a lot of energy. Um, you know, and to to see children in the in our school program, you know, who then come to another program and I say, Oh my gosh. You know, we're making an impact. They really get it. So that kind of thing really keeps me going. You know, this is a seven day a week job. I mean, there's no doubt about it. And look, I'm a co founder, and so, you know, I'm, we're still building to make this sustainable. So it's not a it's not something that really weighs on me in that, oh, I need to take, I need to go out and rest now, because, look, when I'm coaching, I'm also exercising, you know, yeah, and so it's not where I'm sitting at a desk. But, I mean, there are times when I do, when I write brands, but so I, you know, I feel fine with the way things are. Yes, you know, I need to hire more staff to help out. But for me, this was all it's very positive that, you know, I can be an entrepreneur, I can be a coach, and I and I feel like I'm hoping you know others and my all my small part of of the world. So your question is relevant, but it's also a little bit irrelevant too, right? Because I just, yeah, I just, I just do well, Michael Hingson ** 59:07 I would also submit, you know, is climate change really more important? I mean, it is very important, but some people have the gift to do that, right? And so the other side of it is that making society more aware of important issues is, in its own way, just as important. Yeah, and you, you seem to do it very well, so I wouldn't denigrate it a whole lot. I think it's extremely important to do what you're doing. And, yeah, go Michael Rosenkrantz ** 59:34 ahead. No, no, no, it is. But you know, given who I am and interested in the world of ideas and all that. I mean, I do you know think about these other things too. Sure. I know that, you know. I know that, especially with the children and with the adults that you know, making somewhat of a difference. So, yeah, if Michael Hingson ** 59:55 people want to reach out and learn more about SoCal adaptive sports, maybe communicate. With you, maybe become involved and so on, whether it's here or in other parts of the country. How do they do that? Yeah, so or other parts of the world for that matter, because we do have initiatives outside the US too. Yeah, Michael Rosenkrantz ** 1:00:13 because of our name, I do have people reaching out from other parts of the country, that's for sure. And I'm, you know, I'm still connected, obviously, with people in India on the call. But so SoCal adaptive sports.org is our website, Michael Hingson ** 1:00:27 so it's S, O, C, A, L, adaptive sports.org Michael Rosenkrantz ** 1:00:33 Okay? Or, you know, my emails might get SoCal adaptive sports.org so you know, feel free to reach out, happy to advise you wherever you live, connect you with resources wherever you live. And yeah, again, just, you know, join us. It's a growing community, a growing family. And yeah, we are making a difference. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:02 And I think that's as much as anyone can ask for. Make a difference, make it a better world. Gee, Who can argue with that? Well, I want to thank you again for being with us. This has been fun, and I really enjoyed the discussion. And if you ever want to come back and talk more about it, and talk more about things that are happening and progress you're making, you are always welcome to to come visit us. So thank you for doing that, and I want to thank you all for listening to us today. This has been a lot of fun, and it's been very educational. I've learned a lot, and I love that. I always love to learn. When people come on and visit with us, I hope that you found it interesting and useful as well. I'd love to hear your thoughts. You are welcome to reach out to me at Michael H, i@accessibe.com that's M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, E.com, or go to our podcast page, which is www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, that's m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, N, wherever you're listening, please give us a five star rating. We value your ratings highly and value your input and your thoughts, so please feel free to let us know, please feel free to rate us wherever you're listening to us, and if you know of any guests and Mike you as well. If you know of anyone else who you think we ought to have on as a guest, on unstoppable mindset, always looking for more people, please reach out to us and let us know. So Michael, once again, I want to thank you. This has been fun. I really want to thank you for being here with us today. Michael Rosenkrantz ** 1:02:40 Thank you. I appreciate **Michael Hingson ** 1:02:47 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
