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Sarah Giencke describes herself as halfway between being a Gen Y and a Gen Z. However she describes herself, she is a life-long Wisconsin person. She finally migrated to Madison Wisconsin around nine years ago. After college she held a few sales jobs, but four years ago she decided to start her own business. Today she uses a somatic/embodiment tool called TRE®. Her work is dedicated to helping individuals & leaders reconnect back to their bodies, and to build a relationship with their nervous systems. We have a fascinating and informative discussion about stress, trauma and the differences between them. I think that what Sarah will discuss with us is worth everyone hearing and exploring. She is the Founder of Riset Resiliency, a wellness consultancy on a mission to reduce suffering in the workplace by co-regulating nervous systems. What, you may ask, is “co-regulating”? Listen to our episode and discover for yourself. About the Guest: Sarah Giencke is a Nervous System and Resilience Coach, Certified in TRE® (Tension & Trauma Releasing Exercises). She is the Founder of Riset Resiliency, a wellness consultancy on a mission to reduce suffering in the workplace by co-regulating nervous systems. Her work is dedicated to helping individuals & leaders reconnect back to their bodies, and to build a relationship with their nervous system. She also helps people become trauma informed, and provides her clients with a somatic/embodiment tool called TRE®.
Through her work, Sarah educates her clients on the core concepts of the nervous system, empowering her clients with this essential knowledge. Sarah helps people reclaim power and balance over their nervous systems so that they can live less stressful and more peaceful lives - moving from being reactive towards being responsive. Having an intimate relationship to trauma, Sarah deeply understands the connection between the body's trauma response and adverse life effects - being easily triggered, hypervigilant, and experiencing physical pain. Sarah found TRE® over 4 years ago when she took a TRE® class at her gym; despite being hesitant about this strange "shaking" sensation, Sarah decided to continue down the TRE® path. It wasn't until she brought the practice into her own home, where her practice grew and where she felt the power of neurogenic tremoring.
Fast forward 4 years, Sarah is now a certified TRE® practitioner (from Red Beard Academy, in Madison, WI) who teaches others this incredible self-regulation tool. Sarah emphasises creating safety with her clients so they too can experience the power of tremoring. Sarah helps her clients gain self-agency & self-awareness - something that gets lost when we experience trauma. Clients have said that Sarah helped them create space in their lives, improving their daily lives and overall wellbeing.
Outside of her work, Sarah loves to regulate her nervous system through meditation, being in nature, going for walks, journaling and playing tennis. Ways to connect with Sarah: Website: Risetresiliency.com Email: sarahg@risetresiliency.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahgiencke/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:
Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected happen and meet and today, how about we get to do some unexpected kinds of things, our guest, our our conversational colleague this time is Sarah Gienke, and Sarah is, among other things that she will describe herself, is a nervous system and resilience coach, and she asked me, before we started the recording, if we could do a grounding session. I'm anxious to see what that's about. But I stole the show first by saying, I'd like to ask you, Sarah, first of all, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Sarah Gienke ** 02:03 Thank you so much for having me, Michael, Michael Hingson ** 02:06 and I'd like to ask if you'd just tell us a little bit about kind of the early Sarah, growing up, and whatever you want to tell us, Sarah Gienke ** 02:12 sure. So I was born in Bay View, Milwaukee, and lived there for about five or six years, and then we moved to Muskego. Grew up there with my two older brothers, my mom and dad, we had a beautiful backyard with some woods and the pool. So it's very natural for me to be nature inclined. So I love all things being naturey. And of course, as you can imagine, potentially growing up with two brothers, kind of a little bit of a tomboy, so wasn't afraid. Michael Hingson ** 02:45 And then, of course, washed out for sister. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Sarah Gienke ** 02:51 And so yeah, wasn't afraid to pick up frogs or search for salamanders. And, you know, just enjoy nature before screens were invented. Geez. You know, I identify as a zillennial. So I'm a, I'm a late millennial, very early Gen Z, kind of in this, like overlap area of a couple years. And so I wasn't born with screens. You know, in my hand, we obviously had TVs and would watch VHS, and then we moved to CDs and learned how to write cursive and and also type at the same time. And I think that is a key component into my identity, because I grew up with technology, very comfortable with it, but also I feel like I'm straddling both sides, kind of that old world and the new New World, which I don't think we're going back so got a very unique perspective. Michael Hingson ** 03:50 I hear that more people are learning cursive again than did for quite a while. Sarah Gienke ** 04:00 I have heard that. And I've also heard quite the opposite, that some schools are completely eliminating it. Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah, it's kind of a, it's kind of a wild, wild scene right now, when it comes, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 04:15 it is, I think that there's, there's value in learning how to read and write, and people should learn to do that. And I don't know whether it's totally equivalent. In some ways it is, but there's a big argument that for blind people, well, you don't need Braille anymore because you can read books by listening to them, and you you don't need Braille because there's so much available and audio and an unlimited vocabulary, text to speech on your computer. The only problem with all of that is, if you buy into that, you don't learn to read to spell, you don't learn good grammar and sentence structure. And I would think that to a degree, there is some truth to. Fact that cursive is different than just typing on a keyboard. You're learning a little bit more about your main way of communicating, which is with characters, whether they're printed or written or typed. It's value to have all of that. Oh, absolutely. Sarah Gienke ** 05:15 I honestly have never heard anyone say that we don't need Braille. I would, I don't think I would ever say that. I think people learn different styles. So why would we eliminate that? You know, like that doesn't make sense, because, Michael Hingson ** 05:29 unfortunately, a lot of the so called experts in the field say, Well, you got all these other means you don't need braille, and that's why Braille is only right now covering about 10% of all blind people, and it used to be over 50% literacy rate. It has dropped a significant amount. It may be coming back up a bit, but they're really mistaken, if they sell us short, and the value of learning Braille is the same as for the value of learning print and you being able to read, there are just things that you're not going to get from audio books or anything else that you will get from truly being able to read, which is what Braille permits. Sarah Gienke ** 06:10 Yeah, and also, like the use of your imagination, right? When we read, especially non fiction, we're imagining this whole narrative and story going on in our brain. So I feel like that's a huge aspect that people would miss out on as well Michael Hingson ** 06:24 they would, and you can get some of it from audio, but it isn't the same. You're still a little bit more limited, because you are somewhat drawn in by the reader, the narrator, as opposed to truly looking at it yourself. I spent a weekend very recently in Seattle with the radio enthusiasts of Puget Sound, which is an organization that that does a lot to preserve old time radio. And what we did was we created 18 radio shows, so I was one of the actors in some of the shows, and had a lot of really neat discussions about the concept of radio and what radio was in the 40s and 30s and 50s, until TV came along and really invaded people's imaginations, because now you really didn't get To imagine it. It's what the director and the casting people decided Matt Dillon should look like as a marshal, as opposed to what you heard when you heard William Conrad, who was the radio voice of Matt Dillon, and it was a totally different kind of image that came about. And that's true with a lot of radio versus television that you you don't get the same thing from television, because now it's what you see on the screen rather than what you imagine in your mind. So, yeah, it's interesting. That's super Sarah Gienke ** 07:54 interesting. I did not know that you had a radio background. I That's fascinating. I mean, it makes sense. You've got such a great voice, so might as well use it Michael Hingson ** 08:04 well. I did radio in college too, so it was a lot of fun to to do that, and didn't do a lot with it, other than using it to communicate when I did sales and other things like that after college. But it's a lot of fun and and you So you grew up chasing frogs and salamanders and all that, and did, where did you go to college? Or did you do that? Sarah Gienke ** 08:25 Yeah, of course, I did. Well, I shouldn't say of course, because not everyone goes to college, but I did. And I actually went to UW Waukesha. So I went there, I got my associate's degree and all my gen Ed's done, partially because I wasn't ready to leave yet and be on my own, but also financially, I just didn't know going and it just made more sense. And very grateful for that experience, because it led me actually out to Madison, Wisconsin, which is where I am now. I've been out here for nine years or so, and I finished my bachelor's degree at Edgewood, Edgewood College, and that was a liberal arts degree, a liberal arts school of the Dominican branch. Not that that really matters, but it's, you know, a differentiator, I guess, for some. And I studied interpersonal, organizational communications, which really means being able to connect with people and build really great relationships when it comes to organizations Michael Hingson ** 09:28 Cool, well, and what did you do with that? Then, when you, when you got out of college, well, Sarah Gienke ** 09:34 I, let's see, I kind of got into the tech world. I just started going to a lot of different networking events and things, and found someone who was running a startup, and they were like, Hey, come join our team. And so I had a short stint at that organization, and then moved, and I was doing sales there, and then I moved to curate, which is another gov Tech. Company, and did sales for them for quite some time, and had another brief role at a L and D firm, kind of getting into the culture realm. And then when I was there, I really decided I wanted to pursue my certification for Tre. And I was like, You know what? I really like this, and I'm going to finish my certification and then launched my company. So here I am fully stepped into my own business and also doing some other side contracting work in the HR realm. Michael Hingson ** 10:30 So and how do you like being an entrepreneur? Oh, Sarah Gienke ** 10:33 gosh, you know, I feel like I've always been of entrepreneurial spirit. You know, the the term being an intra intrapreneur, and it's hard. It is not for everyone, and still, still kind of fitting into my britches, if you will, figuring out how do you maneuver being an entrepreneur. But I ultimately love it for the flexibility being able to represent myself and to pick and choose the kinds of things that I want to work on Michael Hingson ** 11:05 well, and I think that's that's valuable and important, that you can really decide what exactly you want to do. The other thing about being an entrepreneur that I find fascinating, and I think it's one of the reasons a lot of people don't necessarily succeed at it as well as they could, is you've got to really be disciplined, especially when you're the one that is the captain of the ship. You've got to learn what a captain has to do, and you may find innovative ways to bury that, but there are still processes and procedures that you have to do as the entrepreneur in charge, if you will, and that that is something that not everyone is able to do. The whole discipline concept, yeah, Sarah Gienke ** 11:51 for sure, it's something I'm still settling into and re redefining every day or every week, figuring out where to put my time and my energy, and how do I balance it all? And yeah, so it's definitely, definitely a change, Michael Hingson ** 12:06 and that's okay. It's something that you'll always be doing, and it's good that you question it, and it's good that you look at it, and maybe every day, at the end of the day, kind of think, how did this go? How did that go? Was this as good as it could be? And so you will always, if you're doing it right, be looking at how you can improve the process. Or you decide this worked out really well, I'm going to stick with it and look for ways to improve it as we go forward, whatever it is, yes, Sarah Gienke ** 12:33 exactly, exactly. And creating that path, seeing the need, and then creating something to fill that need that's there, I think is really exciting. And collaboration with others as well who are doing the work that's been something I've been recently exploring quite a bit. Michael Hingson ** 12:51 Well, tell me a little bit more about what you do. And you said you wanted to do a grounding session, and we should do that, whatever that is all involved. So I'm going to leave that all up to you. Sarah Gienke ** 13:00 Okay, well, um, you know, maybe we'll, we can. We'll put all Michael Hingson ** 13:04 the responsibility on you. Sarah Gienke ** 13:08 I'm used to it. Um, so actually, let's continue with the conversation, and sure you can close out with a grounding. I think that would be good. Well, Michael Hingson ** 13:17 tell so tell me about tre you mentioned that, and I know it's a registered item, but tell me about Tre. What does tre stand for, and and what is it? Sarah Gienke ** 13:30 Yeah, so tre stands for attention and trauma releasing exercises. It's essentially, very much akin to yoga. And what did? It consists of a series of intro exercises, which lightly stretch and then fatigue muscles so that we can then tap into this innate shaking modality. Its technical name is called neurogenic tremoring, which all mammals can do. If you have a dog at home, which my God, all if you do, I have a Michael Hingson ** 14:01 guide dog who's over here, very comfy on his bed. Sarah Gienke ** 14:05 There you go. Well, he must be very relaxed. He is. I assume you've probably seen him scared, right? Yeah. Like, what does he get scared at? Like, what are some of his triggers? Michael Hingson ** 14:20 Well, he has a couple things. The most recent thing, he's not generally afraid of thunder and lightning and so on. But last week, we had one cloud storm cell come through that dumped a bunch of rain for about a half hour. But more important, there was an incredible amount of thunder and lightning, and I didn't really hear the thunder and lightning, so I opened the door. It was about 730 night to let him out, and he just backed up from the door and was panting very heavily and just would not go out. And I'm not going to force him, because I then heard all the thunder, and I went, Oh, I cannot. Understand that, but still that bothered him. Another thing that bothers him is we do have some smoke detectors in the house, and I'm don't know whether you have a smoke detector, but when the battery starts to run out, they chirp at you, and he doesn't and he doesn't like that either. Sarah Gienke ** 15:14 Okay, okay, well, I don't know if at either of those stimulus or stimuli, if that makes him shake. But a lot of dogs do shake at lightning or thunder the Veiled person, and so that is the dog's natural way of discharging the stress from that trigger, right? But what has happened in humans is we have learned to suppress it. We've conditioned ourselves not to shake because we label it at it as weak or weird or vulnerable. You know, for example, when you see someone talking up on stage or even doing a podcast and they get nervous, what do we think about them? What do we label them? Michael Hingson ** 16:00 Yeah, I hear you. We we say, well, what's wrong with you? Exactly? Sarah Gienke ** 16:03 And so it's actually nothing that's wrong with them, no natural way of trying to rid themselves of the rush of the chemicals of adrenaline and cortisol that go through the body when we have that physiological reaction. And so what tre does is helps us come out of those states. It helps us get back to a state of safety and groundedness, which I hope to get into in a little bit perhaps now Michael Hingson ** 16:33 we'll see. If you'd like to I will comment coincidentally, at the beginning of the pandemic, I realized, and it's been a while since we've chatted, but you may remember, I worked in the World Trade Center on September 11 and escaped with a previous guide dog who was afraid of thunder and lightning, but nothing bothered her on September 11, because it wasn't thunder and lightning, and in the building, when the plane hit 18 floors above us. It wasn't a very loud explosion, anyway. But the point of saying that is that I had spent a lot of time learning what to do in an emergency situation at the World Trade Center, and just learning all about the complex reason being, I ran an office for a company, and so it was important for me to know what to do in the case of an emergency or any any, any unexpected situation, because I might very well either be the only one in our office or there might be other people. But they rely on as sighted people looking at signs and so on, which may or may not even be available to you in an emergency situation. So it's important to really know what to do, rather than figuring, oh, I can just use the signs. And so I learned all of that, and what I discovered about me later, well, after September 11, is that, because I learned all of that, I had developed a mindset that says, You know what to do in an emergency. And so when there was one, I immediately had this mindset kick in, and other things started to happen where I observed what was going on around me. For example, someone in my office was yelling, we got to get out of here. The building's on fire. I could see fire and smoke, and there are millions of pieces of burning paper falling outside our window, and I could hear debris falling outside our window. So I believed him when he said there were burning pieces of paper falling outside the window. But I was also observing something else, namely, a dog sitting next to me, wagging her tail, yawning, going, who woke me up? I was sleeping real good here, and you guys are disturbing my rest. What's going on? And what that told me, because I was focused and had learned to focus, what that told me was, whatever's going on isn't such an immediate emergency that we can't try to evacuate in an orderly way. Didn't mean we shouldn't evacuate, but we could evacuate in an orderly way. Another way of saying, not to say, I'm not afraid, but rather to say, you can control fear. You can learn how to deal with the fear that you have and use it as a very powerful, supportive, positive tool, rather than, as I put it, blinding you or overwhelming you. Sarah Gienke ** 19:32 Wow. What an example. I knew, of course, that you had been in the the Twin Towers when 911 happened. But yeah, you had not shared that tidbit with me before. That's that is an incredibly powerful story and skill to have, and thank goodness for your calm and collectiveness like amidst you know, one of the worst. First disasters our nation has ever faced, you made calm and you helped people get down the stairwell like that is, wow. Michael Hingson ** 20:09 Well, and now we've written a book about it. And then the book is entitled, it'll be published in August. It's from Tyndale house, and the book is entitled, live like a guide dog. True Stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and moving forward in faith. And the idea is that I really learned a lot of those skills by observing and working with eight guide dogs and then also my wife's service dog when they were both alive. Fantasia. But the the idea is that dogs, for example, have a lot to teach us about teamwork, being brave and being supportive, and the very fact that we can be a lot more able to deal with fear if we are in a teaming environment and support and allow ourselves to be supported by teammates. Sarah Gienke ** 21:03 Yeah, I love that. It's the that collective, collective mentality, instead of the individualistic one we sell off choose, Michael Hingson ** 21:13 yeah, so same way. It's coming out in in August. It's available for pre order, and I'm looking forward to seeing how well it's received. I hope it's received well, and that lots of people will be interested in it, because I think we need to recognize that fear doesn't need to blind us, or fear doesn't need to overwhelm us. We can deal with it like with anything in our lives, if we choose to, but that's a matter of choice, and learning how to be able to make that choice work. Sarah Gienke ** 21:47 Yeah, and well, you can count me in for a copy, because I definitely, I definitely want to read your book. Michael Hingson ** 21:55 I'll email you, I'll email you the information about the pre ordering of it. Great. Sarah Gienke ** 22:00 Thank you. And I'll, I'll probably end up making a LinkedIn post about this. So, oh, please. Well, I Michael Hingson ** 22:05 hope so please, Sarah Gienke ** 22:07 yes, of course. But what I think you're really talking about here, Michael, is resilience. You know, making that choice to not get overwhelmed, which can easily happen, and is totally okay if it happens, but the harm of it is when we are stuck in that heightened state for long periods of time, that's when we're going to experience some adverse effects or or when we experience it over and over and over and over again, what we call a theory our window of tolerance, that's going to keep getting shorter and shorter so you're going to get more triggered and triggered and not be able to move through that situation. So the work with tre is helping you increase that window of tolerance so that you can withstand more adversity without getting as triggered or triggered at all, and really remaining in control over your emotions, Michael Hingson ** 23:09 which makes perfect sense, and it's kind of what we've been talking about. And the fact is, you can do that. What's the difference between stress and trauma? You make a distinction between the two, yeah, and talk about how they can both be stuck in our bodies and so on which, which is, of course, getting back again to what you're talking about with tre but yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Sarah Gienke ** 23:29 So I think of stress and trauma as kind of a continuum. On one side we have stress, and on the other side we have trauma, and as things increase in intensity, or over time, we're going to experience trauma. But to kind of give the listeners here a very concrete explanation, I actually, I actually Googled this, and this is what chat generative AI came up with, with which I thought was really interesting. Stress is a natural human response to the mental or physical tension caused by a difficult situation. It can be a one time occurrence or happen repeatedly over a period of time. Stress, though, this is the key differentiator, is that it can be positive or negative. It can motivate you to achieve those goals and get out of your bed and light a fire under your butt in the morning, or it can cause you to lose sleep. That what we would call the eustress, which is good stress, versus distress, which is bad stress. And we really want to teeter right in the middle there, where we're not dipping too far into one way or the other, because if we don't have enough stress, we're going to just kind of lay around and not do much. But if we have too much, we're going to go completely overwhelmed and most likely shut down on on the other side of the spectrum. So trauma is defined as a distressing or disturbing event that increases our lack of personal. Control. So, like we were talking about before losing control over emotions, it can and most, most definitely leaves an impression on us, kind of like if you were to put your hand into some Play Doh and then take your hand back, that impression is still there. And so it can be, really any experience that overwhelms one's normal coping mechanisms, and it leaves the person feeling helpless. And one key differentiator for me is when someone is talking and they talk about their life as like a pre or a post, that's a huge different. That's a huge key indicator that they've experienced some trauma, which obviously, with you going through 911 that's a huge trauma that you've experienced. And I don't know if you want to get into that on this call, but I would personally be curious to learn, like, what was that experience like, and what did you do to heal yourself? Michael Hingson ** 25:59 What's really funny about your question is my answer. Ironically. You know, we always hear about the media and how obnoxious they could be and all that, but soon after September 11, the media heard about my story, and I started getting phone calls and asked to be interviewed and so on, and I talked with my wife about it, and she was probably a little bit more skeptical than I, but I'm the guy who was professionally selling in the family, so I thought I could deal with it. We agreed that if it would help people move on from September 11 at the time, if it would help people learn more about blindness and guide dogs, and if it would help people maybe understand that they could deal with these kinds of things, and I would allow the interviews to happen. The other part about that was that it also then led to people beginning to call me and asking me to come and talk about September 11, and not only that, but to talk about other topics that I have expertise in, and I still do that today. So I'm always looking for speaking opportunities. So anybody out there who is listening, who needs a speaker, love to chat with you. But for me, like with anyone, I think when you have something happen to you, or you're facing some situation, there's always value in talking about it. And for me, getting so many interviews, literally hundreds, with the most intelligent questions to the most asinine, inane questions that you can imagine, and having to answer all of them without getting upset, that was probably the thing that helped me the most, because I allowed myself, and I put myself in a position to talk about it, Sarah Gienke ** 27:50 yeah, like externally, externally processing it, yeah. That makes total sense. Michael Hingson ** 27:55 Yeah. Because I think anyone who is in a in any kind of a situation, or even if you're looking for a solution to a problem, there's a lot of value in collaboration and not taking the position well, only I can solve this, nobody else can. You don't know that. But more important collaboration, teamwork, trust or just talking it out never hurts. Sarah Gienke ** 28:25 Yeah, that's so true, and that's what I mentioned earlier, is collaborating with others, right? Seeing it in perspective, I I kind of want to, like, bring your question and something that you just said now together. So okay, you were asked earlier, like, how does trauma get or stress get stuck and stored in our body? Well, when we don't process it, it stays within us. So we have something called the stress response cycle, where, if you think of a circle at the top, we're calm, or what we call homeostasis, maybe you're in like the state, the formal state called ventral vagal, which is ease and calm, and you're experiencing joy. And then if you move to, you know, one side of the circle, you're going to encounter the trigger, or that external stimulus that's got you kind of little bit riled up. And then you continue along the circle to the bottom, where then you're going to experience one of the the stress or trauma responses. We've got fight, flight, freeze or fun. And then if you continue to close the loop, we would move back to calm, you know, letting the body settle down. But as I had alluded to earlier, lots of us get stuck in that response state. So I'd be curious, did you feel any like physical ailments or anything kind of develop as a result of your experience in 911 or with 911 Michael Hingson ** 29:53 No, actually, I did not. The only thing that happened to me, really was walking down. And basically mathematically, we calculated roughly 1400 63 stairs at least going down the next day. I was as stiff as a board, and was really stiff for a week. So I was glad that we had built an accessible home for my wife, because she was always using a wheelchair. She was born with scar tissue on her spinal cord. So she was paralyzed from like right below the breasts on down so she could drive and so on. But she used a chair, and so we put an elevator in the home, because it had to be where we were building. Had to be a two story home. I used that elevator for a week, a lot more than she did. So because I couldn't go up, I couldn't walk upstairs or downstairs, and my office was in our basement. My home office was in our basement. So that that was a, I think it was that the adrenaline wore off, and the next day, as I said, I was stiff. And was stiff for about a week. She said, you walk like an old man. So, Sarah Gienke ** 30:57 geez, I could only imagine. I mean, yes, obviously, like the physical exercise of going down that many stairs like, you know, after a gym session, gym session, even, you know, we're a little little tight or or sore the next day or two, but, but what I'm almost, I'm speculating here is that could have have happened to you, or, you know, many others, is when you experience that we tense up like our entire body, and so that is actually what inhibits us from being able to tremor, to release it. So, you know, there's like this unthawing process that happens with clients and people that explore this modality so that we can actually get to the place where we experience the tremoring. That's why we stretch and do these light exercises, so you can tap into it. Otherwise, we're just going to tighten up and forget about it. Well, the Michael Hingson ** 31:54 other thing is, and people have asked me, Did you feel survivor's guilt or anything like that, a remorse? And the answer is, I have to say no. And the reason I didn't was because I realized pretty early on that, like with the media starting to be interested, and people started to call and saying, Would you come and speak? And then we made the decision for me that speaking was a whole lot more fun, and selling life and philosophy was a whole lot more rewarding than selling computer hardware. And so I chose to do that starting at the beginning of 2002 although I did a speech or two before even then. But the bottom line is that I realized that there's something that I should do with my life because of what happened. And I think it's important that in anything that we do, in any situation that we face, the reality is that we may not have had control over that situation happening. And I'm not convinced today that we could have predicted September 11, I'm not sure that there was enough data ever produced that would have allowed us to figure it out. I don't know, but that's my thought. But we always have control over how we deal with what happens to us, and that's the issue, Sarah Gienke ** 33:16 yeah, well, I gotta say I think you're one heck of a resilient guy. I mean, I don't know, I haven't interacted with a lot of 911 survivors, but I will say, and I will bet, that a lot of them probably are not as resilient as you, as you are, and maybe it is due to your blindness and having having to be resilient already that you were just, you know, more capable to handle that experience. I don't know, but, yeah, it's sure an inspiration. That's for sure. Well, I Michael Hingson ** 33:52 hope that that it helps people. And one of the reasons that we wrote live like a guide dog that'll be coming out is hopefully even during this election year, people will read it and take a step back and think about what's going on and not let those who want to promote fear blind us to making more intelligent decisions, whatever that happens to be. We don't take enough time at the end of the day, or at the beginning of the day to analyze our own lives, and I'll take at the end of the day. We don't take enough time to just even while we're lying down getting ready to fall asleep, going How did it go today? What worked? What didn't work? Why did I react this way to this or that, could I have done it differently? And self analysis is something that can help lead to learning a lot more about controlling the fear reactions of the other things that we face and how we deal with them. Sarah Gienke ** 34:58 Yeah, absolutely. Self awareness. Progress. And through self awareness, we explore things to help us self regulate meaning, regulating over our emotions and how we're reacting to things, and then ultimately getting to a place of self agency, you know, having that discipline and and regaining that back, which often gets lost when we experience hardships. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 35:25 what can people do to relieve stress? What are the kinds of things that the body needs? Really? I think we've talked about that a little bit, but yeah, Sarah Gienke ** 35:32 there are so many different ways to relieve stress for your body, or AKA, self regulate your nervous system. Some of my favorite things to do, even since being a little girl, is being in nature. I just feel so connected to the earth when I step outside. And whether that's going for a stroll locally here or going up north and being surrounded in the in the woods, people can dance. Dancing is a huge way to release stress from the body and also have a creative outlet to express what you might be experiencing. Others might rely on adjacent techniques to tre such as like tapping or the EFT Emotional Freedom Technique where people tap in different areas to release. I am excited to explore that more myself. I haven't quite yet. Michael Hingson ** 36:29 We did a podcast on that a few weeks ago. Oh, Sarah Gienke ** 36:32 well, then perfect. I'll have to give a lesson. And so, yeah, like I said, there's a there's so many different ways to regulate yourself and to kind of continue on that list, breath work, also singing. I think people don't know this, but singing or humming is an excellent way to stimulate what we call the vagus nerve. So that's a bundle of nerves in our nervous system that really controls a lot of things. And so when we hum or we sing, that vibration touches on that bundle of nerves and brings us down into states of groundedness, connection, etc. So I don't know if you've ever been in choir, but I'm also a huge, huge choir fan or choir nerd, and so I always wondered, how did I get through school? School is extremely stressful, whether it's high school or college, and I was singing. I was singing for like, almost two hours every day, and so I think that was a huge way for me to come back down and to also feel connected to others. So yeah, Michael Hingson ** 37:35 yeah. Well, I like, I like to sing, and I've always enjoyed karaoke, no less. But by the same token, just singing for myself, whether anyone else is around or not, it is a good way, and we do need to do things to take our minds off of the things that we think are stressful, which may or may not really be stressful at all. I think it was Mark Twain who said, or one of the people who said, The problem with most of the things that we're afraid of is they're never going to come through and come true anyway. Yeah, Sarah Gienke ** 38:08 well, that sounds like that's a nervous system that's heightened, that's in hypervigilant state, looking for all the possible outcomes and mostly negative things, if we're being transparent of how things could turn out, which is just such an icky way to live, and I know exactly what that's like. Michael Hingson ** 38:28 Well, one of the lessons that we talk about and live like a guide dog comes from Roselle, who was the guide dog who was with me in the World Trade Center, and after September 11, like a day or two later, I called the veterinarian department at guide dogs, and I said, is any of this? Because they, by that time, had learned that I was in the complex we let them know. But I asked, How will all this affect Rozelle? And the response was, did anything threaten or hurt her specifically, like did a brick come at her and hit her or anything like that? And I said, No, absolutely not. They said, well, then nothing. When we got home that night, I took her harness off and I was going to take her outside, but she would have none of it. She went to her toy box, got her favorite tug bone, and started playing tug of war with our retired guy dog, Lenny, and the two of them just played for a while. Roselle didn't even need to go outside. But the point was, it was over for her, and what the veterinarian said was, it's over. Dogs don't do what if? When something like that happens, they may react if something directly affects them, but it still is, they don't do, what if it's a particular situation. But in rose L's case, there was nothing. So dogs don't do what if, and we spend so much time, what if, in. That it drives us crazy. Sarah Gienke ** 40:03 It really does. I feel called out here, but it's true, and I think that's that's really has to do with their prefrontal cortex. So like the front of their of their brain, humans have different prefrontal cortexes we've evolved to have it be much more complex. And so yeah, dogs kind of, they're just in the present moment. They're like, alright, yeah, like you said, it's over, and now I'm here playing with my with my bestie, yeah, yeah, you Michael Hingson ** 40:38 you sound like though you've experienced some of these things that have been, what if creators and so on. Oh, Sarah Gienke ** 40:44 totally. I mean, I think that's part of the human experience. And through, through nervous system regulation and through techniques like meditation and mindfulness, we can really rewire our brains and our bodies to not live in that fear state, to live in a live and work from a place of groundedness, centeredness, openness, curiosity, and I think ultimately, when you're in that type of energy, you're attracting, you're attracting things to You, instead of being more negative and being fearful and like pushing things away, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 41:24 what kinds of things would you suggest to recommend to help regulate our nervous system and deal with some of these issues that we are talking about? Sarah Gienke ** 41:34 Yeah, so as I had mentioned before, you know, getting out in nature and walking, um, exercise can be good for for that meditation, breath work, tapping and then, you know, obviously, I'm a huge advocate for Tre. I think tre gets to the root of things quite quickly, and it has a tremendous impact, not just from your first time on, but compounding. Just like any kind of self care ritual that we would do, when we do it over time and continuously, we're going to see exponential growth, especially if we layer it with other things. So if you're going to therapy or things like that, and you're layering it with tre or breath work or tapping, I think that there's a magic combination for all of us that we have to kind of explore and discover the different things that work for our bodies. Because I tell you, I say to people, you know, tremoring, everyone can tremor but tremoring is not for everyone. And what I mean by that is not everyone's ready to do this deeper work, you have to be ready to meet yourself at those deeper levels. So if you're just kind of getting on that healing journey or self regulation nervous system journey, I'd say start with something a little lighter, like try, try mindfulness techniques or meditation, something like that. Dip your big toe in. Don't you jump right into the bath right away. Michael Hingson ** 43:03 Yeah, there's no need to do that. But you know, what do you say to the person who says, Oh, I don't have time to do any of that. I'm too busy. I've got too much stuff to do. I've got to get these projects done, and so on and so on and so on. Yeah, Sarah Gienke ** 43:19 gosh, I get it, because I even struggle with that, with my own self sometimes, you know, we're human. We've got a lot on our plates, and I think it's a couple things. One, it's knowing that in order to go fast, we kind of need to slow down. It's just like when we were in college and you pulled an all, all nighter to study for your exam, and then you show up to the exam and you're exhausted and you don't remember anything, versus, you know, at midnight or whenever you went to bed, just closing the book and saying, You know what, I did the best that I could, and I'm going to go to sleep, and you're going to wake up much more refreshed. And so that same kind of concept applies to this work, is knowing that we need to slow down so that we can show up and be fully our best selves, for ourselves, for our partner partners, for our our kids, our employees, our workplace. So it's, it's that, and then also on the flip side is, if you just keep going and going, you're gonna, you're gonna hit a wall at some point and potentially reach burnout. So the analogy that I like to give that's very common in this world is that our nervous systems are like a car, and so what we're trying to do is find the optimal speed for ourselves, for our bodies. So what kind of pace Are we moving at internally? And so our sympathetic nervous system, which is one side, is the gas pedal. And if we're on that gas pedal, you know, pedal to the metal all the way, we're going to run out of gas. That car is going to start to run. Down, and eventually you're going to be on the side of the road asking for help. So basically, it's really about prevent, preventing that and and bringing in some of the other side, which is the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the rest and digest. That's the the brake pedal. We don't want to be fully on break, because then we'll just be going nowhere. But we want to, we want to find that optimal range where it feels really good. Michael Hingson ** 45:28 And the reality is, each of us have our own gifts, and the gifts that you have are not necessarily the gifts that I have, which are not necessarily the same as someone else has, and no one should be criticized for the gifts that they have or don't have. Sarah Gienke ** 45:48 Absolutely, absolutely, Michael Hingson ** 45:52 yeah, and it happens too often. Sarah Gienke ** 45:54 It does, and also knowing that no one's perfect and that if that's a skill you want to work on, great, you've acknowledged that, and now you can take a step forward to work on the skill that you want to work on. In this example, it's regulating your nervous system. Michael Hingson ** 46:16 What is CO regulation? And why is that an important concept? Sarah Gienke ** 46:19 Oh, that's a great question. So when we are babies and we fall down and we scrape our knee, and our parents pick us up and they coddle us, and they soothe us from crying and screaming out in pain, they are co regulating with us. They are helping us calm down, get back to that centered state Petrova once again. And so we keep doing that over and over and over again. And through that, we learn to be able to self regulate on our own. And that's the work that that I do with clients, is helping them through co regulation with me learn how to get to self regulation. Because, unfortunately, even though that's how we're supposed to learn self regulation through our parents, a lot of us have not learned that, and that's, I think, just partially a generational thing. I think there's a whole change and shift, as I was mentioning earlier with Gen Z prior to pressing record, that is really taking accountability for how we're showing up and how we're interacting and so a huge part of that is that self regulation. So both are essential to create safety, especially in groups, in communities, in workplaces. You know, for example, our, you know, our nervous systems are, always, are, always are tuning to one another, like when a boss comes into a meeting and they're all fostered and uptight and just huffing and puffing. You can feel that that is tangible energy, and they are not in a regulated state. And so when our nervous systems can kind of talk to one another and one's remaining, remaining grounded, not also getting heightened, then we can calm, we can help calm each other down. So it's kind of like this concept of taking care of one another in a community context. Michael Hingson ** 48:22 You know, one of the things I hear a lot, and I think I've said it myself, is that today, we seem to have so many more people who have no boundaries, and they just think they they own the road or whatever the case happens to be. I don't know whether that is really true, but it seems like it is all too often today, more the case that things that we would never have thought of doing and would never do years ago, people do all the time. Now. Do you think that's really true, that people have less boundaries, or they haven't learned how to regulate or look at different points of view. Is that a gender or not gender, but a generation issue or anything like that? 49:10 Well, that's Michael Hingson ** 49:11 is that a very open question? Yeah, Sarah Gienke ** 49:13 yeah. It's a very nuanced question, because, like anytime we talk about a population of people, we don't want to just generalize because one fits into that box. You know, there may be some overlapping or overarching, I should say, characteristics or similarities that you find, but, yeah, we want to be careful when we're talking about groups in general. So I I would actually say that people are getting more boundaries. I think that there's some generations before us that necessarily didn't have boundaries. It was self impression too, that was taught. You know, boundaries were more porous. But. Younger generation as much as they want to, as much as they are seen, sometimes as challenging or X, Y and Z. I think they're really resetting, not to plug the name of my business, but they're resetting the threshold in which how we show up in the world, what our boundaries are, regulating our emotions, being able to then have an important conversation with people, um, instead of just avoiding or brushing it under the rug. So that's kind of my take on it. What do you what do you see? That's Michael Hingson ** 50:34 my impression, too, and that's what I've actually heard from from people that younger people maybe have really started to realize and are catching on to having boundaries, having values, being a little bit more methodical about what they do and that they're and that older people and people will classify me as that arena, since I'm 74 probably had boundaries. But there's that middle ground, or that middle set of people that that didn't really and haven't really dealt with boundaries, maybe as appropriately as they should, and how that will affect things other than the younger generation is catching on and seeing it and doesn't like it, but, but I agree with Sarah Gienke ** 51:24 you, yeah, and I think we could substitute the word boundaries and for trauma, because ultimately, what it really comes down to is that self inner work, because what's happened prior is Just passing on trauma through behaviors, but also genetically. And so it finally has come to a point in the time where we're like, No, we're not going to continue these behaviors. We're not going to continue to pass this on. We're going to face it and we're going to process it through the work that I do with clients or and other other modalities that I mentioned, so that we can then ultimately move forward coming from our authentic selves, instead of coming from a trauma response, such as being a people pleaser or being angry all the time, because that's not really who we are. That's coming from a place of that fright, of having to protect ourselves, and like I can only imagine a world where we are all regulated and showing up as our authentic selves. I can't even imagine, like, what greatness would come from it, collaboration and invention and, yeah, just all those awesome things that we're constantly trying to strive for. Michael Hingson ** 52:39 And someday, maybe we'll get there, Sarah Gienke ** 52:42 maybe. And that's okay that we're not there yet, because my mission is to help reduce that suffering one person at a time by helping co regulate with them. So Well, Michael Hingson ** 52:55 tell us more about your business reset and what it is, and how you do, what you do, and so on. Sarah Gienke ** 53:02 Yeah, so reset, resiliency, wellness, consultancy, and what I do is I help people reconnect back to their bodies, back to their nervous systems, teaching them about their nervous system, giving them very essential information that I think we should be learning in schools, but we are not. And also really providing them with trauma, informed knowledge and a somatic embodiment tool that we mentioned before called Tre. So really that's what I do, is I teach people, I educate them, and then provide them with something which I guide them through over several weeks, and then I kind of set them free, because my goal is not to work with people forever, which is kind of contrary to a lot of business ideas. However, because of my my history and my path and my story, I know the importance of, kind of like going through that graduation piece, of getting that self agency back so that you don't have to rely on anybody to do this work. You have this tool in your toolbox for the rest of your life, and it's quite transformative to say to say it in a small way. So Michael Hingson ** 54:14 where do your clients come from? Sarah Gienke ** 54:18 My clients come from referrals, a lot of word of mouth, and they come from me, messaging people on LinkedIn and posting on social media, and working on having I'm working on having a better SEO as well, but I getting website visits and, um, also just really providing people information and showing them the importance of this work, and then being attracted to me, Michael Hingson ** 54:53 you do a lot of the work virtually. Sarah Gienke ** 54:56 Yes, I do virtual work, and I also do in person work as well. So. I currently teach in person classes at home yoga in Madison, and I do my in person sessions there as well. And then, yeah, anyone that's not in that vicinity, we meet virtually, Michael Hingson ** 55:16 that's cool. So that if people want to reach out to you, they certainly can do that. And I would assume that you can interact with people virtually, that you don't need to necessarily have them right there on the spot with you. Sarah Gienke ** 55:30 Yes, you certainly can do this work virtually. I've worked with handfuls of clients virtually. I also like in person as well. But it really just boils down to location and where you're at. And either way, we're going to have a great program together and get you this tool and teach you this tool Michael Hingson ** 55:53 so you've been doing this business. So first of all, reset is spelled, how, R, i, Sarah Gienke ** 55:59 s, e, t, so just check I actually thought of it when I was meditating one day. I was thinking about the words rise and set, and then they kind of just overlapped. And I was like, wow, that is clever e to the i and b, rise and set. And so that is a nod to polyvagal theory, which is really the theory that all my work is based off of, which is how our nervous system we get triggered, the sympathetic comes on, we rise up and then helping people settle back down. So that's why the the logo is in kind of an arch, or kind of like a curve. It's also mimicking that what Michael Hingson ** 56:41 kind of people typically would come to you? Maybe another way to put that is what who are? Who is Tre, really, for Sarah Gienke ** 56:52 my teacher of Tre, always joke tre for anyone who's stressed tends to traumatized. Oh, there we Michael Hingson ** 56:59 go. That's a few people on the planet. Yeah, right, Sarah Gienke ** 57:02 but I will say who I tend to work with is, I do work with men, but I tend to work with more women than men, but it's really those people who are in transition in their lives. So I've, for example, worked with a woman who was in a sales job, she just wanted to absolutely, you know, just not do that. It wasn't, it wasn't fulfilling her. And so she was in a huge transition, and she ended up through our work, it helped. It helped her create time and space, and allowed her to then launch her own business and go after her own dreams. I've also worked with a another male who was working at a coffee shop, and he decided, You know what, I think I want to be the next owner. And so he was going through some huge transition there, and while we were working together, you know, decided to move forward with the sale. And now he's full owner of that coffee shop, stepping into his dream. So I think it's kind of tapping onto that, tapping into that authenticity and not being scared and letting our hindrances hold us back, but rather feeling coming from a place of calm and ease and authenticity and moving through that Michael Hingson ** 58:23 and really thinking about it and recognizing that sometimes it's okay to step out and take a chance, but do it wisely. Don't just do it arbitrarily. Sarah Gienke ** 58:33 Yeah, definitely, you definitely want to have some thought put into it. And, yeah, that's that can take some time. But I do ultimately think that it's worth a chance. Um, it's worth a opportunity. You have one life, and you might as well step out and try. I'd rather say, Oh, well, that didn't work then. Well, I don't know if that ever would have worked. That's the kind of camp that I'm pet. I'm in so Michael Hingson ** 59:01 well you don't know until you try or study on it. Yeah, exactly. Sarah Gienke ** 59:07 And then I also just wanted to mention too that I will be coming out with some courses soon as well. And so those aren't really aimed for leaders and organizations to become more trauma informed, and so you don't have to have experienced trauma to go through this. I think that this is work. This is literally what I think is the future of our workplaces, pretty much leadership, 2.0 if you will, and helping leaders understand and have more self awareness of themselves and how they come across and how they might have some conditioning around their past experiences and how they show up, but also understanding for their employees and what might be coming up from them or or how we're interpreting things. You know, for example, someone showing up late, well like. Get curious around that instead of just jumping into conclusions. Michael Hingson ** 1:00:04 Yeah, all too many people probably don't take enough time to necessarily understand the people around them, especially those that they lead, and really get to know them and recognize them for who they are and what they can do. But that doesn't work unless you really take the time to to learn about them Sarah Gienke ** 1:00:26 exactly. It's all about really relationships. So a lot of trauma is relational. It's on that one to one context. So understanding those dynamics and understanding all the pieces that come into play is going to make you such a better leader. Um, Michael Hingson ** 1:00:48 yeah, yeah, by by any definition. Well, if people want to reach out to you and and maybe explore working with you and you helping them, or just understand more about what you do, how do they do that? Yeah, yeah, they can or learn about your new courses coming out soon. Yeah, I'm huge Sarah Gienke ** 1:01:05 on LinkedIn, so you can follow me there. I post a lot of content. My name is Sarah ginky, G, i, e, n, C, K, E, you can also email me at Sarah at reset, resiliency.com, so after the at sign it's R, i, s, e, t, R, E, S, I, L, i, e, n, C, y.com, or you can click on my website, reset, resiliency.com, book an intro. Call with me. I'd love to learn more about what's going on in your life and see if this modality can can help you. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:39 Well, I hope people will reach out, and I hope that people who listen and watch learned a lot today. I did, and so did I. I value that a lot. I value getting the chance to learn different things from people. So I want to thank you for for being here and for doing this, and certainly any of you out there, we'd love to hear from you and get your thoughts on what we did today, please feel free to email me. It's Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, or go to our podcast page, which is w, w, w, dot Michael hinkson.com/podcast, and Michael Hinkson is spelled M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S O n.com/podcast, so please, love to get your thoughts. Really would appreciate you reviewing our podcast, especially we love five star reviews, so please do that, and we want to hear from you, and I know that Sarah would like to hear from you as well. So we hope that that will all happen, and Sarah for you and anyone listening, if you know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, love to hear from you, and anyone who you think ought to come on, please just email and introduction, and we will always respond to that. I believe everyone in the world has stories to tell, as Sarah has proven today, right? Sarah Gienke ** 1:03:10 Thank you, and just so grateful to be on this podcast with you, Michael, you have such an incredible story and such an inspiration. So thank you. Well, Michael Hingson ** 1:03:22 thank you for being here, and we'll have to do it again sometime. All right, sounds 1:03:26 like a plan. Michael Hingson ** 1:03:33 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. 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